Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE11EP9 - Can Independent Scientology Save You?
What does it mean to be "saved" and can Independent Scientology offer this experience? In this thought-provoking exploration, we dive deep into the concept of salvation from both traditional religious perspectives and the unique viewpoint of Independent Scientology.
Unlike conventional religious salvation that relies on external forces to rescue believers from sin, Independent Scientology presents a more self-directed path. Through rigorous self-examination facilitated by auditing processes, practitioners confront emotional charges associated with past experiences, gradually dismantling what L. Ron Hubbard called the "reactive mind." This systematic approach leads not just to emotional relief but to a profound reconciliation with one's true spiritual nature.
The transformative journey of "going clear" represents a pivot from effect toward cause in one's life. As one practitioner beautifully explains, "When you understand who you really are, it changes the way you look at life. You're more empathetic and forgiving of others because you realize people are acting out of their stuff, their reactive mind." This newfound perspective allows practitioners to walk through life with certainty even when surrounded by uncertainty.
Perhaps most revolutionary is Independent Scientology's assertion that "all beings are basically good" – a stark contrast to doctrines of original sin found in many traditional religions. Rather than viewing humans as inherently flawed creatures needing redemption, Independent Scientology sees spiritual struggles as aberrations that can be systematically addressed and resolved. This affirmative vision of human potential offers liberation to those who have struggled with guilt-oriented religious traditions.
The parallels to William Ernest Henley's poem "Invictus" capture the essence of this spiritual approach: "I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Through Independent Scientology, practitioners work toward this state of self-determination and inner freedom while extending help to others on similar journeys.
Ready to explore how Independent Scientology might transform your spiritual journey? Visit collegeofindependentscientology.com to learn more about courses that can help you find your own path to spiritual freedom.
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Hi everybody, and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast brought to you by ao-tporg and collegeofindependentscientologycom. This is season 11, episode 8. I'm here with Quentin Stroud and the title of this one an interesting episode this will be is Can Independent Scientology Save you? I love it. Can it save you? So what do we mean by saving somebody, Because you hear that a lot in other religions. Have you been saved? Have you been saved? Have you been saved? Have you been saved? Have you been saved? Uh, what is that? What is let's? Let's look at that for a minute. What does that mean in that sense, outside of independent scientology, and what does it mean in independent scientology? I think they're two different things.
Speaker 2:Yeah, of course, the interesting thing is that this was a requested podcast, so somebody actually requested this, saying I would love for you guys myself even a traditional Christian background. It is a real viewpoint that people hold. There's a real viewpoint that people hold that there's this idea that I need to be saved, or perhaps I need to be saved, and so you know. It's interesting because when I think about independent Scientology as it's saved me if we want to use that word as it's saved me it has saved me a lot in fact and just on like the physical mess universe kind of level, it saved me. Working with AOGP has saved me a lot of money, right. It saved me a lot of heartache and a lot of time. It saved me a lot of energy and having to use my own force to kind of push through any of the baggage and the stuff that I might have gotten in other areas and other places. I might have gotten in other areas and other places.
Speaker 2:So, I think that working with ALGP has really saved me a lot, just on the missed universe level, the physical universe level, and in your own experience, have you felt a salvific?
Speaker 1:experience of Scientology. Well, like I was saying, I don't know what the I really don't know. I can take a guess as to when somebody says you know, have you been saved by a Lord and Savior, jesus Christ.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:What did Jesus save that person from? And I would say an eternal damnation in hell, type of thing. Okay, I like that In a figurative way. Maybe you could answer that you know, having that background Right, that would help me answer that question would help me answer that question.
Speaker 2:So it says here that in Christianity per se, this concept of being saved refers to being rescued from the consequences of your sins and being reconciled with God through faith in Christ. So being forgiven of sins, receiving eternal life and being adopted into the family of God, is that notion of it and if you really think about it, where you really go clear, where you go to OT levels you know OT1 for myself there is a salvific, based on what we just read. There is a salvific understanding of this being rescued from the consequences of your sins. Now, obviously we don't have the whole idea of sins in Scientology. There's no carnal sins or the seven deadly sins. There's nothing like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because ethics is a personal thing and, you know, overts and withholds are something. That is what sins are. And it's interesting to note that we have an ad that we've been running on Facebook and many people have said nobody can free you from your sins except Jesus Christ. Really, yes, yes, and I thought that's an interesting viewpoint, that somebody, wow, yeah, nobody can save you from your sins except Jesus Christ. I thought, okay, so to answer your question, you know, has it saved me? Question, uh, you know have had. Has it saved me?
Speaker 1:Um, it has given me the ability to push through any and all obstacles that I have faced in life.
Speaker 1:It has given me the tools and know how. Yeah, know how the tools, and when I say the tools, I don't necessarily mean you know the basics, like we evaluation from other beings, as well as the physical universe itself. It has given me the certainty that I will prevail and that I can prevail if I so choose to do so. Now, to me, that's a very interesting way to say I can or I can't, because LRH talks about how an OT can create a reactive mind. Even though that they're clear, they can put one there if they're active, because you have the ability to create things and mock things up, but the opposite side of the coin is you also have the ability to create what it is you need to survive as a spiritual being, a thetan, and as a spiritual thetan moving around a meat puppet known as a body and dealing with that. So I would say you know saving I mean the concept of saving means that you've rescued yourself from peril, the consequences of, yeah, of your peril, your own overs and withers.
Speaker 1:Right your own personal hell. And LRA says if you were and I just mentioned this this morning in a conversation if you were looking, lra says, if you were looking for hell and you found earth, it would duly serve. And there you have it right Then KSW would have won.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know, I think, as you were just sharing how you've been saved with independent Scientology, I think it's really beautiful because I feel the same way. I feel that I am forgiven of my own overs and with hoes I have forgiven myself, I have forgiven my mother, I have forgiven my father, I have forgiven people who have wronged me on whatever level, which in and of itself is extremely freeing. I think in scientology we use the term free more than saved. You know, um, going free or whatever. And they are saying they all say getting saved. Have you been saved or have you gone free, you know? But I think that that for me, I will say definitely doing this, going up the bridge and doing the auditing and going over the grades and working the grades and going into the upper levels.
Speaker 2:There's something so remarkable that's probably the best word I'll use. There's something so remarkable that's probably the best word I'll use. There's something so remarkable about it.
Speaker 2:It's like you see yourself and that whole idea of eternal life, like you actually see the fullness of who you are as a spiritual being and the eternal life you remember and you're reminded of and you reconcile with that right, you reconcile with the truth of your own eternity, right, right, and who you are, yeah, yeah, and I think that that's a beautiful certainty that I have now, that certainty that I have now, when before and growing up in Christianity and stuff before, it was a belief, and I remember, even when my dad was murdered, we said he has the hope of eternal life, the hope of you know, heaven.
Speaker 2:And that was, it was always a hope. I think now, as an independent Scientologist, I know that with certainty there is an eternity aspect of who I am, or that I am, and that feels very reassuring to me, right, yeah. And so, being reconciled unto, unto god, which is in scientology, which we recognize as the eighth dynamic, you, you gotta, you gotta know that there's a, there's a, there's an infinitude of self, yeah, and it, it is, and, and and this is not to say you can be any religion on the planet and still be an independent Scientologist.
Speaker 1:All it's going to do is enhance what it is that you already have and you already know, and that's really important. But I would say for myself and for many others that I've audited, or people that have received auditing as well, that you come to realize it's very much like the poem Invictus. I don't know if you're familiar with that poem.
Speaker 2:No, I have to look it up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we can read it. It's one of my all-time favorite poems my father introduced me. It's a little bit, you find it. Yeah, I have it right here.
Speaker 2:Go ahead and read it. Sure Invictus by William Ernest Henley. Out of the night that covers me black as the pit from pole to pole. I thank whatever gods may be for my unconquerable soul In the fell clutch of circumstance. I have not went, nor cried aloud. Under the bludgeonings of chance. My head is bloody but unbowed. Beyond this place of wrath and tears looms but the horror of the shade. And yet the menace of the years finds and shall find me unafraid. It matters not how straight the gate, how charged with punishments the scroll. I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul. I love that. Yeah, I heard that last part.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's what I and many, many, many other beings who have done independent Scientology or Scientology before it was taken over, I've come to found to be the case, and to me that that statement, that realization is, is it's another way of saying that you have saved or been saved, and or, in my opinion, you have saved yourself. Yeah for sure. Like Ellery says, it's a tough universe and only the tigers survive, and even they have a hard time, which is also keeping scientology work. So so you know from that standpoint, who, who is doing the saving. Ultimately, you could say on a, on a, a flow to flow, one, that it's others to you who are delivering the services to you. But then it changes to a flow two you to others. And then, if you're good, you decide to become an auditor or supervisor and introduce people to the subject, and now you have others to others, and then you have also others to you, and then, ultimately, as you go up the grade chart, now you're working on a flow zero you to yourself.
Speaker 1:So it needs to be said that you can't get up the bridge properly and get the results that you should, you deserve to get, without helping others. And he says how do you go OT, you have to audit like hell. And that doesn't just mean audit yourself solo, that means audit others, because if you're OT and you don't have other OTs to survive with, you're going to have a really hard fucking time surviving because of all of the insanity that's around you and you're going to be dropped down. So in saving yourself, for example, you have to take responsibility and save others in some way, or you won't be saved and saving yourself for very long. Take responsibility and save others in some way, or you won't be saved and saving yourself for very long, because a single solitary thing won't be OT for very long.
Speaker 2:Especially when you write about a lot of interrelationship. Yeah, and I think that that's why I said, too, that you know, I was able to forgive my mother, my father, I was able to forgive people who wronged me. You know, in the Lord's prayer it says forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sinned against us. You know, and I feel like that really is how it feels, like you get to a point where you know so clearly what happened and what's happened to you and what's gone on and the viewpoints in which it was coming from, and the whole thing, and you, just you, as is it? You, you vanish it, you vanquish it. It no longer has any charge with you. And I'm I'm saying this as real as I can possibly say it like the stuff that used to hurt me so no longer hurts anymore. It just doesn't.
Speaker 2:And by taking such a thorough look at it and going through it and when Jonathan was running me through over and over and over again, these auditing commands, like you take a look at this stuff, and from every angle, from every vantage point pew, pew, pew, pew, pew, pew. You're taking a look at it so much so that it has to blow, it has to give up its power over you, the consequences of sin or whatever right. It gives up its power over you and you are no longer being suppressed by it. I think in scripture it says it says death. Where is your sting Grave? Where is your victory? Like it no longer has a victory over you because you have so blown out whatever forces was trying to hold you down for sure Right, because you've looked at it from all sides and you've taken ownership and responsibility for all of those things.
Speaker 1:And you just look at it and you go, okay, it doesn't mean that I have to like it, but I can see it for what it is.
Speaker 1:And you know that's one of the funny things about independent Scientology and Dianetics technology is it's only as good as you have agreement to use it.
Speaker 1:You can know about it and you can use it and you can get everything you can from it. That is there and that's a lot, it's a huge amount, but you have to have agreement and that's why LRH wrote the policies and the technical bulletins is you have to have agreement from others in order to have a truly sane environment, because if you can't get agreement and you can't get people on the same page, you're going to be all right, but you need to find other like-minded individuals with which you can have a shared reality, like he talks about in the actions. There's three realities there's yours, mine and our agreed-upon reality. And you have to have that agreed-upon reality in order to have sanity, stability, certainty, all of these things. It can't just be you and that's why you have to find like-minded individuals who are all on the same page. And then you get all those flows of quote-unquote salvation or saving where everything really starts to pop and all the dynamics are in agreement well, and also, too, this idea.
Speaker 2:There's an idea of, uh, repentance, to be repentant, right, and repentance comes from the greek word metanoia, which really means the change of mind. Right, repentance is not repentance. Listen to me if you're on the phone or on the podcast. Repentance does not mean feeling sorry for, okay. That is a misunderstanding of the origin of that word, the word metanoia or metanosis. Right, it means change, meta, gnosis, mind, okay, noia.
Speaker 2:And so it changes your mind. It changes the way you think, so you don't even. Oh, what I used to do, I don't do no more, and where I used to go, I don't go no more. And the things I used to say, I don't. Say you change the way you are. This is where it says you become a new creature in Christ, in Christianity. It says you become a new creature in christ, in, in, in christianity says you become a new creature in christ.
Speaker 2:When you understand who you really are, when you go through that, when you go up the bridge and you start to really see who you really are, it changes the way you look at life.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it changes everything, and so so the repentance, if you want to use that word, that comes along with understanding the things that you've been through and the things that you've done and the things that you've seen and the things that you experienced. When you go through this and it's such a thorough LRH got such a, it's such a thorough look of what we've been through as spiritual beings when you go through this, you really it really changes your mind about who you are. It changes the way you see life. It changes the way you see other people. You're more empathetic and you're more forgiving of other people. You realize people are acting out of their stuff, their reactive mind, their bank. They're acting out of something else and I know it ain't you baby, but it's okay, I'm going to let you go ahead. Go look at that podcast we did on beingness. Go listen to that one.
Speaker 1:Right, and that is the act of self-salvation, so to speak, in independence. Yeah, is having that viewpoint?
Speaker 1:I don't want to say having that viewpoint, getting that viewpoint, realizing that viewpoint and understanding it originating it and saying it and not just, I mean, you know, it's one thing to say something, it's another thing to know it, mm-hmm. And that's the important part is that in so doing, auditing, you get to, you know that this is the case. You can't tell somebody that and expect them to believe it. They have to get there themselves. They have to walk in their own shoes to get to the destination to know that that is the case.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's that simple it it. It says here, the um, in the book of acts. It says to save yourself from this crooked generation, acts chapter uh, acts chapter 2 and 20, to save yourself from this crooked generation, like. There's something that that you understand when you go through this really involved process that I'm working on saving and we're using quotations on all this, guys, so saving is all in quotes, but I'm working on saving myself from this crooked generation, from the way of and you can look around life.
Speaker 2:You can look around the world and see how things are changing In America. You can see how things are changing, Okay, and it ain't pretty. And so if you have the ability to walk with certainty, if you have the ability to walk with a level of knowingness about who you are, when everybody else is trying to evaluate for you and put you down and tell you how you should think and what you should be doing and whatever, If you can walk in life with a level of certainty, you have saved yourself, okay, from this crooked generation and you put yourself into a place where you're now the cause instead of the effect. You're now cause instead of effect, and that's exactly what being OT is right. You're cause instead of being the effect of, and so I think that this the person who requested this podcast, you know listen.
Speaker 2:Can independent Scientology save you? My answer to that this is just my own viewpoint is yes, and no matter what religion you're in. No matter what. We have a sister who is come from Hindu faith, right, and no matter we have people who are Muslim. No matter what religion you're in, to understand yourself better is a plus.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you know you could. In the beginning, you say, well, yeah, the subject, the technology can save you, but ultimately, what's saving you is your application, your understanding, your thoroughness, your honesty, your integrity with it, not giving up on it, looking up your words when you don't understand it, handling any of the overts against the subject that may develop as solutions to problems that might cause you to blow the subject. And you have to have. You have to have confront. But the thing that is saving you is the technology, is the tool. You're the person using the tool. You do what he says, you'll get the results. They're there and that's that's that. To me, that's a beautiful thing is that you're the one saving.
Speaker 2:We talked about this a little bit in the last podcast. Studying allows you to. In my opinion, it allows you to go faster and be more thorough in your own application of it. Like so. So, by studying. And for those of you who are joining the college, go to college of independent Scientology. And for those of you who are joining the college, go to collegeofindependentscientologycom.
Speaker 2:For those of you who are joining the college, make sure you get on course, make sure you're staying into the courses, because what's interesting about it is this is that when you study, you know what you're looking for. You know what you're looking at, you know the phenomena that needs to come out. You know what you're looking at, you know the phenomena that needs to come out, you know how you feel right. And you know how you feel because you have the theory and then you have the practical application thereof, and this is an applied religious philosophy. Once you apply this to your life, you get the results that you intend to get, that you know you're going to get, that you look for to get, and it works for you to that regard.
Speaker 2:And so it's not just blind faith, it's not just please, please, thank you, please. It's not like that. You have something that you can reference to and say, oh, that one, I got that one, okay, check, okay. In phenomena, check, got that one. Okay, good Check. And you see how your abilities are being rehabilitated through the application of this tech. You see, and so I like the fact that we had to have this conversation with you guys, because it is something that really makes sense to me, coming from my background, and, for those of you who might have come from a different background, make it make sense to you, see how it relates to your own viewpoint, and whatever is true for you is true for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I was just thinking, as you were saying that, that you have to let yourself do it. You have to forgive yourself to do it. That's good. If you can't forgive yourself for your past transgressions, you will not proceed. You have to look at it and go yeah, this is stuff that I need to handle, things I need to look at and I want to handle this. I want to feel better about myself, I want to have high self-esteem, I want to have high self-worth, I want to feel good about myself when I look in the mirror.
Speaker 1:But you have to forgive yourself enough in order to let yourself pass and apply and understand, and then you can get saved through your own application of this, using this technology as a tool to do so. But you've got to get past that first and forgive yourself and grant yourself enough. Being is to say I want to change. And this is a solution. Because if, if you don't get any forward motion with any other uh, any other quote-unquote therapies and nothing is getting any better, then you need to change and do something else and forgive yourself for, for whatever it is that you need to do, and try, try again and talk to us, get, get help, read a book, listen to our podcast and just apply this and you'll. You'll get what he says you'll get if you are honest with yourself and decide that okay, I want to help myself. That's all I am.
Speaker 2:Well, and I love that, because a lot of us, even in mainstream religion, this whole idea that I'm not worthy, or the whole idea that I'm a sinner saved by grace, or you know I'm a wretched, you know, wretched. What's that song? Amazing Grace, how Sweet the Sound that saved a wretch like me. Yeah, and it's like there's so much that we have that we could feel bad for and we could feel bad about ourselves. The first time I heard that I was good was Scientology, that you are an inherently good being. Right, all beings are basically good. I want you to know that All beings are basically good, and the first time I heard that was in Scientology and it was that I had to kind of fight with it a little bit, to be honest with you, because I'm like that ain't true.
Speaker 2:Look around, look at all this stuff going on. I don't know how true that is that all beings are basically good. But then, when you really look at it, that we are and yet with aberration and with different things that happen to us and different tone levels and all this other stuff and different tone levels and all this other stuff, when you really understand what gets a person to that place, what creates a degraded being, averse to withholds. When you really understand what gets a person to that level, you'll be like oh okay, I can see how you were good. And then yet, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. You beat yourself down to a point where you're now operating at this, at this lower condition.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did this, this, this, this, this and this. You know what I mean? It's it's. It gets you to the point where LRA says the the, the worst case of being wrong is dead wrong. You convinced yourself you're that wrong that you are unworthy to even be able to control a body and be the Thetan in charge. That's how bad it can get. That's pretty bad.
Speaker 2:He said, the whole idea of clearing people getting off into a run here, tolerance, the whole idea of clearing people has to do with making them more capable, more able, increasing their creativeness, increasing their tolerance to everything going on in life. That's what it means to be clear. And so when we say going free and going clear and stuff like that, we're talking about it from the perspective of ability. We're not talking about from this whole like when you die, you're going to feel better, you know? No, yeah, you're operating, thayton, you're an operating spiritual being operating as you doing you to life. Life ain't doing something to you, that's right, uh-oh.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and at that point you've saved yourself.
Speaker 2:Right. It says here clearing does not mean that the individual is free from the universe or its liabilities. It merely means he can cope with them. That's a little bit different from the standpoint of the average man. You get somebody who can throw his shoulders back, Stand tall. In clearing people, we can do these four freedoms. And he talks about the four freedoms. It's a really wonderful lecture. The freedoms of clear From the clearing congress.
Speaker 1:Right. So that's what it's all about Is helping you help yourself and then helping others, and then now you've got something that is worthwhile and has been, quote unquote salvaged. All it takes is a little elbow grease, some confront and I'm going to sound a little corny here. You gotta love yourself, amen, and grant yourself the beingness that you do make mistakes and that you can recover from those mistakes, and that it isn't it isn't the end of the world, and accept and apply the, the information and and know that you are a basically good being and that there is a way out if you want to. Yep. So for Quentin Stroud and myself, I hope you guys have enjoyed this podcast. There's a little bit different vibe or feel to the podcast that we normally do and probably for me it's very personal, yeah, and maybe it's as personal for you, namaste, and we love you. Bye-bye.
Speaker 2:Peace, thank you, thank you.