Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE11EP10 - Independent Scientology: Applying the Correct Technology
Why do some Independent Scientologists and Corporate Scientologists alike know a technology works but fail to apply it when they need it most? This compelling episode tackles a paradox within the independent Scientology field—the tendency to abandon fundamental principles like communication and correct application precisely when facing challenges.
Drawing from L. Ron Hubbard's pivotal policy letter "Keeping Scientology Working," the hosts examine how group dynamics and reactive patterns can overwhelm even experienced practitioners. They highlight the destructive nature of cliques, gossip, and faction-forming that mirror the very issues that drove many away from organized Scientology in the first place.
The conversation doesn't shy away from uncomfortable truths about the independent field's shortcomings. With candor and passion, they discuss how the reluctance to receive correction, the resistance to standardization, and the failure to communicate openly have hindered both individual progress and the expansion of the independent movement as a whole.
Most powerfully, the hosts share from personal experience what's possible when the technology is correctly applied across all aspects of life—from relationships to business to spiritual growth. They call listeners back to the fundamentals: "When in doubt, communicate," "Apply the technology," and "If it ain't fun, it ain't Scientology."
Whether you're an independent practitioner, someone curious about alternative spiritual paths, or interested in group dynamics, this episode offers valuable insights on maintaining integrity in your personal practice while navigating community challenges. Ready to experience "miracles for breakfast" in your own spiritual journey? This conversation might be the wake-up call you need.
Website: ao-gp.org
Be social and join US!: collegeofindependentscientology.com
Take our personality test and get a free evaluation: https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/RHJQ6DY
Hi everyone and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is season 11, episode 10. Already I'm here with Quentin Stroud, arthur has the night off and we're going to do a little bit of an editorial podcast that I think really needs to be spoken about. That I think really needs to be spoken about Might not be one of our best listened to podcasts, given the history of these types of things, but sometimes things need to be communicated, and this one's going to be about applying the technology and seeing that the technology is correctly applied of Scientology and Dianetics independent Scientology and Dianetics, the subject and some things that occurred over the weekend in communication cycles that I had made me think that this would be a really important podcast to have, and Quentin has been gracious enough to do the podcast with me. How are you, quentin?
Speaker 2:I'm doing fantastic. I think this is a really good kind of like check-in to make sure that those who are operating in the Independence Scientology field really are keeping the technology working in the field, with our public, with the people who we work with in our lives, even because I think that is very, very important and, like I already said, you know it is correct. Number three knowing it is correct. And so when you have it and you know it, and you know it's correct, you got to apply it. So let's talk about it.
Speaker 1:Right, and that comes from keeping Scientology working. Number one from 1965. The policy is at the beginning of all the course pro course check sheets and for the reason that, well, we have this technology one, having the correct technology. Okay, if you're in the independent field and you're an independent Scientologist, you wouldn't be doing it if you didn't have the correct technology. Right, it stands to reason. If you weren't, and you were out-out of the subject of Scientology and out of the church and out of independent Scientology, then you felt like you didn't have the correct technology.
Speaker 1:Next, probably one of the most important things is knowing the technology and knowing it is correct. Three and four, teaching correctly the correct technology, which are right before what this podcast is about. So, knowing the technology, knowing it is correct. If you're in the independent field and you know Scientology works and you've gotten something from it or you've delivered it to somebody, you know that it works and they've gotten something from it, you want to keep using it. It stands to reason, right, right? So teaching correctly to correct technology Well, that's a trickier one.
Speaker 1:In the independent field, we do our very best. In our online course room. There are other individuals not many, but there are a couple who have standard course rooms, brick and mortar course rooms. We're the only one with a virtual course room and you need to be able to teach it correctly. But this podcast assumes that if you've been in Scientology for oh, I don't know a few years to a few decades and you've gotten up the bridge, you have most likely gotten the correct technology taught to you, or you still wouldn't be using it. I think that's sort of a given. Now that brings us to applying the technology and the reason why.
Speaker 2:I wanted to do this podcast, my favorite.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the reason why I wanted to do this podcast is it was brought to my attention that the behaviors of certain individuals in the independent field I'm not going to name any names and this is a broad brush and if you say, oh, he's using a generality, these are observed behaviors by people that I have spoken to or, on one degree of separation from somebody that I've spoken to, and I saw behaviors that made me think okay, why is it that when someone has something that needs to be handled, if they have the correct technology, why aren't they using it to resolve whatever it is that either is bothering them or they think is an out point, that type of thing, so why aren't people applying it correctly to resolve problems?
Speaker 2:Well, sure, sure? Well, LRH says in the actual policy letter Keep Scientology Working. He says the common denominator of a group is the reactive bank. Things without banks have different responses. They only have their banks in common. They agree then only on bank principles.
Speaker 2:Okay. So if there's a group that is not working and applying this technology, knowing it's correct, knowing it works, you know, and all the one through four, and then you get down to five and six applying the technology and seeing the technologies correctly applied. That's all like. That really is the crux of like. Literally it's right there center in the the 10 points. Five and six. Like the crux of it all is applying the technology and seeing that the technology is correctly applied. So anything going wrong, any out points, any issues, anything that needs to be handled or matters that need to be handled in life, as independent Scientologists, it would make sense that we go straight to the crux of what this technology can do Applying the technology number five and seeing that the technology is correctly applied across the board in our lives, in people's lives.
Speaker 2:I use, let me tell you something, I use this technology in every aspect of my life. I use it in my business, I use it in my relationship in my 2Ds. I use it in all the flows of my life and I make sure that I'm doing this because I know this technology, I know it correctly and I make sure I apply it in what I do To me. That's it, Right, Right. And if one is not doing it to answer your question, is because we dealing with group bank.
Speaker 1:Right Now it's. I've seen this for years, years and Pierre Ethier, the late Pierre Ethier, the Class 12 in New Market Toronto, he once told me he said one of the things that he saw was one of the biggest problems in the church was that there were these cliques of people where you had the Commodores Messenger Org. They were better than everybody else, than the Common Sea Org members and stuff like that, and they didn't get along with other groups. And I thought how in the world does that still happen? World, does that still happen In Scientology with this reference? How in the world does that happen? How can there be cliques? And when I was on staff I came to realize and I was still a teenager when I joined staff I came to realize that politics was alive and well in the corporate church of Scientology, which I was part of at the time, and I thought how is that possible? How is there any form of politics within the subject of Scientology? And it all came back down to what you just said Group bank agreement.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. He goes on to say that thus each one of us because he talks about the difference between group bank and an individual's bank and how the individual the individual, it says can think it says an individual must rise above an avid craving for agreement from a humanoid group. So even though we're spiritual beings, even though we're, you know, operating thetans or whatever, there's still this humanoid group and it says an avid craving for agreement from this humanoid group. Right, and so this is how these mobs, these cliques, actually happen. He says that thus each one of us can rise above the domination of the bank and then, as a group of freed beings, achieve freedom and reason. It is only the aberrated group, the mob, that is destructive. I think this is brilliant and I love the fact like this, this one policy letter, like if you really get this in and see how it applies to every aspect of your life, it you will start to see like, oh, where did I go into agreement with the humanoid group? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know it quickly becomes a witch hunt In these group bank agreements. There's a set of lyrics from the song Witch Hunt from Moving Pictures from the Canadian band Rush that came out in about 1980. And Neil Peart, the drummer, wrote the lyrics for the band he has passed on about five, six years ago. But he says Quick to judge, quick to anger, slow to understand. Ignorance and prejudice they walk hand in hand. Wow, yeah, huh. That's pretty powerful and that's what you see in these cliques. Is you get this witch hunt where you get this group bank agreement going on based off of nobody actually trying to find the correct why on something that's going on because the agreement is much more salacious and feeds that bankiness where, instead of looking into something and handling it, you are biased towards another group or individual without going. Hang on, wait a minute. What's really going on here? Major why that we tried to address in one of the past podcasts about the independent field being a group of individuals, not being a third dynamic group, and that's why the independent field is stagnant, shrinking. Why people left the corporate church of Scientology is because they saw the same thing happening there. How can we expect to ever have this technology in place for any length of time. I mean, if you look at the number of highly trained auditors who were trained by LRH, almost all, almost all of them have died. That are in the independent field, save a couple, and they're all getting up in years. So you know you have to look at it and go okay. So how are we supposed to keep this around?
Speaker 1:I turned 57 this month and you know, applying the technology, seeing that the technology is correctly applied, you can. One of the things I've also mentioned in past podcasts is policy and tech. Both are only as good as you can get an analytical agreement that, yes, this is what works and yes, this is what we will apply. This is what works and, yes, this is what we will apply. Otherwise, you've got one gal or one guy or a small group of guys working in that direction and the rest of them go off and do auditing, quote-unquote auditing, making up new processes, auditing quote-unquote without a meter, and so on and so forth. And then you just go far off to the left and you're not applying the technology. You're seeing that the technology is correctly applied. You're doing incorrect application or, worse, you're calling in one thing and not another.
Speaker 2:uh, you ran into that before you came to aogp yeah, that was that was a part of that, was a part of my, that was a part of my research, and I was. I really wanted, I wanted lrh tech uh, original lrh tech, and that's the part of the reason why I went on my search. Part of the reason, too, was I was traveling, and so, you know, I wanted something that could allow me to do remote auditing and I wanted something that allowed me to be on course, you know, remotely, and I wanted to make sure it was, you know, green or white LRH Tech. I wanted to make sure it was real, you know, and, and in my research I hit places and spaces that didn't necessarily offer all of those things. Right, and that was.
Speaker 2:That wasn't until I found you, and in communicating with you and you showing me the college, you showing me how we do remote auditing, we talked about it extensively, stuff like this and so on, and I and I wanted to work with um, with a very upstart individual, in order to help me. You know, go up the bridge, because it wasn't about, it wasn't about the group thing, it wasn't about, you know, that whole thing. It was about who, who, about that whole thing. It was about who is really here to help me, and that's what I needed.
Speaker 1:Right. And so applying the technology and correctly applying that are super important If we ever expect to have any semblance of the correct technology in the future. And there has to be agreement on it. And there has to be agreement on it and there has to be application of it and not just this group bank agreement of you're going to talk to so-and-so. Huh, that's really interesting because System up, yeah, fundamentals of thought, you know, when in doubt communicate, Dianetics 55, when in doubt communicate.
Speaker 1:This is the fabric of Dianetics and Scientology and independent Scientology. What in the world is going on where people it's as if they just set the technology aside when they hear some sort of N-theta thing or something they don't like or they don't agree with, and then they just completely drop out what it is that they say that they are being doing and having. It just blows my mind how this sort of thing can occur. It just blows my mind how this sort of thing can occur and this is why we have to have independent Scientology, because it was happening in the corporate church. It is happening in the corporate church and you get into the independent Scientology and as far as I'm concerned it's almost worse because there's nobody there to hold the line because you can't get any agreement on what it is that you're going to apply, or that you're going to apply it, or even what the correct technology is. I have so many people come to me that don't know how to do a clay demo of all things. They don't know how to properly do a clay demo and I think to myself how is it that somebody didn't catch that? And then I go wait a minute. Yeah, Wait a minute.
Speaker 1:This is the only answer to this is that the person that trained them on this didn't know how to do it themselves or was lazy and didn't care, and they just let them do whatever. So you're not applying the technology correctly. It's there, we have it. It's not just with aogp, it's there.
Speaker 1:Lots of people have this, but yet yet they still have to want to apply it. They still have to want to apply it, which goes back to what I was saying of you have to have agreement. You don't't just pick and choose. That's why he wrote Keeping Scientology Working is it isn't just cherry picking these particular things and going off and doing whatever you want, Because guys like you and me and the people at AOGP, we have to sit here and pick through and clean up the wreckage when people have been mishandled. Yeah, and that is a huge burden for the people that have received it and an even larger burden for us to try and correct, because these people didn't know they were delivered to improperly in the first place. Right, they don't know that. They don't know, which is the opposite of the definition of Scientology.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and he goes on to talk about this when he talks about the bank agreement, and he says that the bank agreement has been what has made Earth a hill. And if you were looking for hell and found earth, it will certainly serve. And when you said that the other day, I cracked up because I was like, yep, that sure is it. And he said that is the bank. You know, that is the bank, and that it is the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing. There you have it. It is the bank that says the group is all and the individual nothing. There, you have it. It is the bank that says that, like that, we, we got it, we know what we're talking about. And the individual nope, like, no, like it's about.
Speaker 2:It's about freeing these individuals like yourselves that listen to this podcast, and then, from that freed state, you create a group of freed beings that achieve freedom, and reason is how he says it.
Speaker 2:Well, what is freedom and reason? It has to make sense, it has to work, it has to make sense. And that's why I think this conversation is so important, because when we're talking about applying the technology, we're talking about applying it to life. I talk about this very, very passionately because I know how it's changed my health, I know how it's changed my body, I know how it's changed my finances, I know how it's changed my relationships. I know how it's changed my relationships, I know how it's worked, and so I'm not just reading this policy letter saying, oh, it's a good policy letter to follow. I'm saying it because I know how it works and if you apply the technology, you will see the results in a group, in a business, in whatever, and so when these things are not in, then you fall into that other thing that he talked about, that destructive element that messes people up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and part of what we're trying to do here is the latter part of these 10 steps in keeping Scientology working is hammering out of existence incorrect technology and knocking out incorrect applications, closing the door on the possibility of incorrect technology, closing the door on incorrect application. Well, all we can do is say, all right, if you know this, don't just apply it to others. It's the one thing in the source point of all the points that I've seen is where people can have it done to them, but they don't do it to others. It's just a void. And if you don't apply it to others but you expect it to be applied to you, what do you have? It kind of cancels itself out, doesn't it? And so you've got Zippo, and that's why the independent field is the way that it is and that's why the corporate church of Scientology was so easily taken over. Well, that, and you know the lack of confront for evil and that these things could ever possibly happen. But you know you've got to be able to confront evil and go.
Speaker 1:Okay, I have a huge button on injustice. I've always been for the underdog. What about them? What's going on with them? Find out what's going on with them. Is it something that they're doing? Or are they just being created a pariah, or do they have some misunderstoods that somebody failed to fix or that type of a thing? And I get really angry when I see injustice occur and I'm not even talking about to myself, but to other people and part of the reason we opened AOGP and wanted to do something about it when LRA says you know, at the end of the day, what did you do to help? What did you do to help on the third dynamic?
Speaker 1:And on the third dynamic, doing something to help means applying the technology, knowing about it, learning it, getting it used with other people and having compassion, granting beingness to people and going, hey, wait a minute. He says look, don't listen. When you see a situation, what products is this organization, this individual, getting? Are they a decent person? That type of a thing. And you don't see that recognition. You don't see that recognition with people because they're so caught up on their first dynamic and that agreement that they get from other people in these cabals and these, these, these boards, these committees and all this stuff and and nothing ever gets any better. It's just. It's just third dynamic individuation, both from the third dynamic and individuation from their real, true third and fourth dynamics. That's, that's the way I see it. What do you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I think that if you were really about the expansion of the tech, then you would have to keep this reference in front of you at all times in what you're doing right, advancing the tech. Lrh talks about this in the actual policy letter when he talks about contributions, and he said the contributions informing the technology were the help for friendships and defense, of organization, of dissemination, of application, of advices on results and of finance. So he acknowledges the help. He said these were great contributions and were and are appreciated. Many thousands contributed in this way and made us what we are. But notice this, he said discovery contribution was not, however, part of the broad picture. Contribution was not a part of the broad picture. That ain't what we were looking for. Okay, it says we would not speculate here on why this was stole or how I came.
Speaker 2:Dramatization of the bank called new ideas in quotes, called new ideas, would have wiped it out. And so what are we doing? Here we are and here we are the prophet known as LRH. It's like he prophesied this, like he talked about how this would. This is what would be a downfall if we don't keep this thing in, you know. And so this is our um our ethics of saying like yeah, if it, if it's, if it's not right, it ain't right. If it ain't, if it ain't working, it ain't working. If it ain't, if it ain't lrh, it ain't lrh right, look, don't listen.
Speaker 1:What's what's, what's going on? You know I and, and that that means getting out there making yourself known, I think. I think the the the most incredible and amazing thing to me is and and.
Speaker 1:I've mentioned this before and I see it now more than ever is how somebody like AOGP can be reviled, because we actually know how to market and we're made wrong for marketing because it's like, oh, those guys, I hate them, they're slick advertising. It's like, oh, those guys, I hate them, they're slick advertising, you know, and all this, it's just what? What are you talking?
Speaker 2:about. I don't understand what that means. There's a whole in the management volume. There's whole things about advertising, like I don't understand what that means.
Speaker 1:Right, but see, they're not applying the technology. They're not applying the technology. Pcs are scarce and students are scarce. It's really hard to hang out your own shingle and everythingRH's legacy, the mantle of, of Scientology, the subject as independent Scientology, but see this, and it all comes back to seeing that the technology is correctly applied. What? What all we can do is do podcasts, write posts and things like that. We can't enforce anybody to do anything, but yet we have others trying to enforce things on us. I just what it blows my mind, and that is the group bank agreement, Without getting in communication, without forming, you know, forming some sort of a structure where everybody can get along and nobody's left behind I hate to use that expression, but every, everybody is included and you have a central organization that's willing to correct auditors, that's willing to help auditors.
Speaker 1:I mean, we don't see a lot of that at all, because auditors won't go get correction from another organization. Oh, I don't trust them. I don't know. I don't know what to be told, what to do. I'll just keep on doing what I'm doing. I mean, I get it, but it's not pro-survival for the auditor or their PCs or anybody else that has to clean up their PCs later on, or their students.
Speaker 1:So how in the world are we ever supposed to actually expand the subject of independent Scientology when the viewpoint on it is is I'd rather be an individual than I would be part of a group that includes everybody and applies the technology correctly and has compassion and understanding and says okay, so what's going on here? What's your story? How do you do a clay demo? How do you do this? I mean, every time we get a new PC in, I find out what it is that they don't know, and I am blown the fuck away, especially from people from the church. In the last two decades at least, what these people don't know as PCs and as students is mind-blowing.
Speaker 1:If that's happening in the church, what's happening in the independent field? Well, we know that and I have a problem with it and that's why we're doing this podcast is that you've got to apply it to yourself and find out what it is that you don't know. That's the hardest thing. Like LRH says, the hardest thing to spot is a missingness. This is what this podcast is about. The hardest thing to spot is a missingness. What is it that you're not applying? Is it that you have MUs that you don't know about it, that it's okay to dog on other individuals, other groups. All of this stuff is it's a misapplication of the technology and if it wasn't going on, the field would be thriving from all of the people having the gains and wins that they could actually have.
Speaker 2:And that's the part that I think is so unfortunate, regardless of like, none of this, at least from my viewpoint, is not to be dogmatic. Right, like you know, uh, you better do this, or else, right, this is the only you know, like I'm, there's nothing dogmatic from this viewpoint. What he's saying is is that that the gains and the wins that people are supposed to have with Scientology and using independent Scientology, being able to do it for me, being able to do it from the comfort of my own home to you how important that was, because I lived a life where I work a lot and I have, you know, I live in a different part of the world where it's not a class 8 auditor or whatever class 12 auditor available to me, so all of these things were really, really important. But people not being able to get the gains that I know exist.
Speaker 2:When this technology is used appropriately and correctly, when it's not squirreled and the whole bit like gosh, it's a good feeling to just be able to win at the level that I'm winning, I'm winning and that feels really good, and so I want that for other people. I want other people to be able to experience these wins. I really do, and so if there's any squirreling, he says it. He says squirreling only comes, he said, going off into weird practices or altering Scientology Only comes about from non-comprehension. Usually the non-comprehension is not of Scientology, but some earlier contact with an offbeat humanoid practice which in its turn was not understood, and so somewhere this whole thing got all confused and then you say oh, and now Scientology comes up. I see this was actually that and this was this, and now we can do this and that's what it gets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it just doesn't stop there with the cognition and you go, oh wow, the math is keyed out and I feel better, okay, what are you going to do with that? What are you going to do with that in perpetuity? You're going to put it into the future and are you going to apply it, or does it just sit there as a key out and then it keys back in and right back to your human practice type of a thing, and that's that's the way that it looks is okay, you can have a cognition, but if you don't apply that cognition and use it, what good is it to you?
Speaker 2:Great, so, yeah, that's that's where this is at and I hope this illuminates codify, if it's not something that is put in a position where now the next person can get that same win right. And what I love about, what I love about lrh and what I love about the bridge and what I love about um, working as an independent scientologist, is that I know that it's laid out for people to travel this bridge and it works as they're moving up the bridge and they're going through whatever, whatever. When that's altered, when that's thrown off, when that's put off on whatever level, to that degree, trouble comes in. And we get a lot. Believe me, when I'm as sure as you hear the sound of my voice, we get a lot of people who have gotten into a lot of trouble when it comes to their spiritual case, when it comes to their case, because it has been something has been incorrectly applied, something has been misunderstood or non-comprehension gone off the rails somewhere and it's gone into some stuff that has nothing to do with what we do as independent Scientologists in ALGP and how we're going to do it.
Speaker 2:And so what I'm saying, that to say is, is that if you feel like you've had trouble with your case, if somewhere it's gotten bugged, if somewhere it's gotten stalled, if somewhere you're not getting the gains or you're not feeling it in your life, you should be having miracles for breakfast. It should feel that good, okay. And if it ain't fun, it ain't Scientology. So let's have fun with this, guys. Let's really enjoy our spiritual progress and let it feel good to you as you have these wins and to the degree that it's not feeling good, life is not going the way you want it, know that there is a technology that can help you get that right, okay. And if it's applied and if it's applied correctly, okay, it will work and we're here to see that that happens.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and you know when in doubt, communicate. Don't just take some some some information from somebody and you go. That doesn't sound right. I'm seeing something else. Why in the world don't you get in touch with the other person or the organization or whatever, and find out for yourself what's going on and expand your understanding of a situation? Because if it's persisting, there's a lie behind it somewhere, and the only way to find that lie is to get in communication, whether it's with the tech or an organization or a person or what have you. And if you're not doing that, you're not applying the absolute basics of Scientology and Dianetics, and it needs to start happening.
Speaker 1:Get in communication, broaden your comm line, care about what's going on in your community, care about another person you know, care about the technology and get on a course, get in session. That's the only way that technology can be correctly applied is by getting in communication, and that's the only solution. So I love it. I got to get in session with a PC. I hope everybody enjoyed this podcast. Please feel free to comment on it in uh beneath the video on YouTube Uh yeah, Comment, talk to us, let us, let us let us know what you're into.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get in touch with us and you can email us. You know you can talk to Finn or AI platform on a O hyphen, gporg and the college of independent Scientologycom, and let's talk collegeofindependentscientologycom, and let's talk, let's get you moving up the bridge. So, for Quentin and myself, we hope you enjoyed this podcast, namaste, and we love you.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye Peace, thank you, thank you.