Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
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Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE11EP12 - Independent Scientology: Expectations, Assumptions and the Lies That Control Us
Truth has a way of making itself known, even when we try desperately to ignore it. This episode might be the most important conversation we've ever shared—a deep exploration into how expectations and assumptions shape our reality, and how lies function as the ultimate mechanism of control.
We begin by examining a provocative statement from L. Ron Hubbard: "The only way to control a person is to lie to them." Rather than the cynical manipulation this might seem at first glance, we unpack how this insight reveals the mechanics of human suffering. When someone provides false information, they're manipulating your decisions to serve their survival, often at your expense. The challenge? Recognizing when this is happening—especially when we're the ones lying to ourselves.
The concept of "look, don't listen" emerges as a powerful tool for seeing truth. Words can deceive, but actions rarely lie. Your body serves as an extraordinary barometer, physically reacting to untruth even when your mind refuses to acknowledge it. We explore how persistent problems in any area of your life indicate the presence of an unexamined lie—once fully seen, these issues must vanish, as they cannot withstand complete awareness.
Perhaps most provocatively, we discuss how cultural myths like Santa Claus introduce children to the mechanics of manipulation through false expectations and control. These early patterns establish templates for relationships that can persist throughout life, teaching both how to lie and how to accept being lied to.
The path through this maze of deception requires discipline, courage, and the willingness to confront reality as it truly exists. Every Scientology auditing session offers the opportunity for revelations that remove the lies keeping unwanted conditions in your life.
Ready to transform your expectations and see truth more clearly? Contact us at aogp.org or collegeofindependentscientology.com. The journey to spiritual freedom begins with recognizing what's been true all along.
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Hi and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast brought to you by ao-gporg and the College of Independent Scientologycom, our online social platform and online course room for independent Scientology. With AOGP, we are here with Arthur Mudakis and Quentin Stroud. This may very well be the most important podcast we've ever done to date, and also we're going to be releasing it on YouTube in video, so that you can see us as we talk about this topic and get a little bit more reality of who we are, what we look like and our expressions and everything, and you have a little bit more idea what's going on. And both the guys have been very gracious to let me throw them up on camera at a moment's notice, and this is not something we normally do, but I thought that it was that important to do it. So the title of this is going to be Expectations and Assumptions.
Speaker 1:So what we're going to do is start off with a thing that LRH said at one point in time, and this is, for all of our listeners, a little bit of a don't shoot the messenger, but LRH says that the liability of being an auditor is that when you audit someone, eventually that person, that client, that pre-clear, that pre-OT may, and very likely will, come to resent you because they think you're better than them, and that itself is an expectation and assumption that that won't happen, that the person won't do that, but it happens.
Speaker 1:So the reason why I mentioned this is that this is a liability for the person that is auditing and, in this case, it's a liability for us to be telling you what it is that we're about to be telling you. And this is so revelatory in its nature revealing that we need you to stick with us, and it might be good if you grabbed a pen and paper and took notes, because we are going to be unraveling something of magnitude here from an angle that we've never unraveled it before. So, with that out of the way, don't shoot the messenger. Please listen with an open mind and accept this and look at it and apply it to your own life in any situation that persists, because a lie is what causes something to persist. For anything to persist, there's a lie behind it, with the Scientology and Dianetic axioms.
Speaker 2:Axioms.
Speaker 1:Right, okay. Now the next step is LRH says the only way to control a person is to lie to them. How could that be? Quentin, you want to go first? Arthur, who wants to go first?
Speaker 2:Well, I think that you know, in trying to control and that is a that in and of itself is a huge buzzword amongst the non-Scientological community, because outside of Scientology, the idea of control is a very negative, taboo way of looking at the world You're trying to control me, you know, but when you're lying to someone, you're actually trying to control them in order to get something from them or out of them, or response from them, or action from them, in order to benefit and to make you feel better or make you come out on top. So one would have to lie to someone in order to get them to do something or behave a certain way or whatever, so that they can then benefit. And that really is kind of what is the basis of why lie to anybody about anything? Because you want something out of them, you want some kind of response, you want to keep a relationship with them, or you want to destroy a relationship with them, or however, you do it and you lie in order to create that effect.
Speaker 1:Right, and that comes down to manipulation, gaslighting whatever term you want to use. You know, flavor of the day type of a thing is that, in order to manipulate a person, you must tell them an untruth so that they believe B instead of A. And the example that I gave right before the podcast was is if you somebody said, would you go in the other room and get me some hair gel? And the person says, yeah, sure, I'll go get the hair gel. And they? They go in the other room and there's a man in there with a gun that shoots them, and once you're dead, they collect the insurance and then they go get married. The man with the gun and the person that asked you to go get the hair gel. Would you go in the room to get the hair gel if you knew there was a man in there with a gun and they were going to kill you? Probably not.
Speaker 1:Now, that is an extreme example. However, this is the mechanic of it. If somebody told you the truth, what would you do, as opposed to if somebody lied to you, what would you do? That's the crux of the matter.
Speaker 3:What about on the other side of the fence, where we quite often lie to ourselves, as opposed to believing somebody else's lie, but then also lying to ourselves, lying to ourselves in our own minds, and?
Speaker 2:it goes to expectations right.
Speaker 3:That goes to expectations and assumptions and I heard, um many years ago I heard a really really good saying around and that was expectations, equal premeditated resentments. And so what that statement means is you've already created potential outcomes with expectations, and some of them are going to be positive and some of them are going to be negative. And so quite often we set ourselves up for failure when we rely too much on expectations, when we rely too much on a potential future taking shape the way we want it, and so we can kind of set ourselves up for a little bit of disaster as well. If we put too much expectation on someone or something like if I expect my car to run forever, I'm going to be sadly disappointed. If I expect my car to continue to run without servicing it and getting the tires done and getting the brakes checked, it's going to get me into trouble. But if I expect that I get the services done on time, if I make sure that those things occur, then the longevity of my car will definitely exceed, potentially, me.
Speaker 1:Right Now that that also comes down to what kind of car did you buy? Did you buy a lower end? Budget budget car and the the. The salesman said oh, these things, they last for 500,000 miles or whatever it would be in kilometers.
Speaker 3:I expect it will.
Speaker 1:I expect it will. And so what's happening there is the salesman is quite possibly telling you a lie when it's a low-end Ford or a low-end VW or a Renault or any number of low-end cars, but you choose and this is the important part, you choose to believe them because you're being there and you're communicating, which is what LRH says is the only thing you can be wrong for. So when I said don't shoot the messenger, why I said that this is point one is who put you at that dealership and why did you choose to pick a car that was basically you know. It's the situation of you get what you pay for. If it's too good to be true, it probably is.
Speaker 3:Well, I expect he's telling me the truth.
Speaker 1:That's right. You expect he's telling you the truth based off of what you said a moment ago is that you have expectations and assumptions based off of you have not informed yourself well enough on the situation in order to know what it is that you're getting into.
Speaker 2:Look, don't listen.
Speaker 1:Look, don't listen. This is an LRH datum and you have to be able to obnose, observe the obvious, which is a Scientology term, and look at it for what it is. If you don't know the tone scale well enough, you don't know the PTS potential trouble source and suppressive person data, or you choose to look the other way, with rose colored glasses because you're in love or some other reason that you're lying to yourself, then you are going to have something persist and that is a self-formulated expectation and assumption by you disinforming yourself first and foremost. More importantly, you have to look at the person that you're dealing with and whether they are lying to you to control and manipulate you.
Speaker 2:Right, doesn't LRH say the only way to play a game is to be a little stupid?
Speaker 2:like that's right, that's right, you got it that's right you have to make yourself not know something in order to even play the game, and so so I choose less obnosis. Uh, knowing obvious, I choose less obnosis in order to even play this game with you when I really know. I really could know, I really could know what this situation is going to be. I really could know what you're going to do to me. I really could know how this thing is going to go down. But to even play this game with you, I'm just going to be a little stupid.
Speaker 1:But to even play this game with you. I'm just going to be a little stupid, right? Because the actual axiom is, in order to play a game, you have to agree to become aberrated, uh-huh, and that is ultimate. Krc would be power. And so you drop down out of knowledge, responsibility, control and power, and you drop down out of ARC in order to not know, because playing a game that you already know the outcome is not a game. It's not a game, that's right. So we have to roll it back and go, okay.
Speaker 1:So why would a person tell you a lie? Because they want to control you. And that brings us back to who benefits. Okay, and now, ultimately, why does a person want to benefit? Well, the Dianetic principle.
Speaker 1:The first rule of Dianetics is survive. The being wants to survive in some fashion, particularly better than you. They want to take something that you have, or they think you have, and make it their own, so they're benefiting from it. You're being lied to because someone benefits from lying to you, controlling you, which, in turn, lessens your survival, and it's why you struggle in your current, present time. Survival is because you're allowing yourself to be lied to or you're lying to yourself. Now you could look at this on a grand scale and you could say in the physical universe, or globally, politically, second, dynamically, third dynamically the church and what they say to you and what they do are two different things, but the fact remains is your ability to observe. It is to the degree that one you're uptone, to, your ability to, to view things as they really are are good enough that you can dodge those bullets. It's that simple.
Speaker 2:No, once you're able to really see it, it has to. It has to be. Uh, it has to vanish. It has to disappear. Once you're able to really perceive of the lie or whatever this thing that's kept it persistent in your space, in your life, in your, in your energy field or whatever, once you're able to fully perceive of it, it has to vanish. It cannot stay because it's not truth.
Speaker 1:Right. So if you're having a problem, there's something there that you're not viewing, that you've accepted as a truth, either for yourself or from someone else, and you're looking at it as something else, or they presented it to you as something else and you're operating off of that as a stable datum and you could be taken to the cleaners by that person, that organization, that significant other, that friend, that landlord, that realtor, that family member and, and you wonder why, why is this not working? It normally works. What's going on? What don't I know? That thing that you don't know is right in front of you.
Speaker 2:Listen, y'all know I got my Q-isms, and one of my Q-isms is trust but verify. And so I trust you. But listen, we finna take a look, we finna go do a deep dive. We finna scroll, right that's right. Trust but verify.
Speaker 1:Look, don't listen. Let's look at that for a moment. Why don't listen?
Speaker 3:Arthur, because we can say anything we like, but when you do something that's completely observable, you can't lie with your body.
Speaker 1:That's right, because it's in the physical universe. You can't lie.
Speaker 3:The body can't lie. I can make my body lie through my words, but I can't make my body lie through my actions. Through my words, but I can't make my body lie through my actions. I can act with my words, but, but the body just can't lie.
Speaker 1:The brain, on the other hand, yeah, it's full of lies well, the, the mind and the vein the brain put, the brain puts, put, the mind pushes the body through the brain to do these things, and then it's on camera or it's in text. There's irrefutable evidence. We have the video of you shooting the person who went in to get the hair gel. You did it and then, if it isn't something that you can't see, that isn't manifest, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny, deny. We've all done it, we've all done it okay, and that's that's how often do we see?
Speaker 3:how often do we see politicians using their words? But then there's actual evidence of something completely different right, completely saying nothing right, right and and that's that's.
Speaker 1:That's the thing I don't. Yeah, yeah, I never said that, whatever the case is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I didn't spend you know two hundred thousand dollars on a holiday, except there's some footage of them taking the helicopter across for lunch yeah, right, so when you, when you look and don't listen, and, and, and.
Speaker 1:This is why there are detectives who go out and they find actual evidence of physical evidence physical evidence of it. This is why lrh says if it isn't written, it isn't written it isn't true.
Speaker 1:Okay, what's the same concept If it isn't written in the physical universe? There's a gun with one bullet in the chamber expended, and you look around and go well, where's the bullet? Oh, there's the body. Where's the bullet? Oh, it's lodged in his chest, in his heart. Okay, so we know that the gun went off perceptibly, so we have to send that to ballistics and go is the bullet in the body, in that heart, the same bullet that was in the gun?
Speaker 1:that came from that gun that came from that gun and they get it back from ballistics, and ballistics says the notchings on the casing of the bullet match the inside of that gun's internals Chamber. Thank you, and that, indeed, yes, is the same bullet that came from that gun, okay. Are there any fingerprints on the gun? Okay, well, we need to dust the gun for fingerprints and get the DNA first, and then we will do a DNA check, which is a modern marvel, and we will verify if there was any DNA, which there should be and usually is, on the the gun. Okay, now we have a fingerprint, we have the DNA records, we know who did it.
Speaker 1:Matching bullet yeah, matching bullet. We know who did it. That is, if it isn't written. It isn't true, it is written with DNA fingerprints bullet, same gun in body. Is that person who we think it is that is dead? Why, yes, it is we we have we. We have irrefutable proof that that is george smith. George smith is dead. Okay, now we need to find the person that did it okay, now, and it's all spelled out.
Speaker 1:That's right. And George Smith can say I right as a report. And George Smith says I have an alibi, I was somewhere else. Okay, let's look into the alibi. Where was his phone at the time? His phone was in that apartment building at the time of approximate time of the murder. Now, if we don't have any cameras in the room, and even if you have cameras in the room, the camera could have the wrong time on it. Nobody set the time on the camera, so the camera gives a wrong time, time, place, form and event. Lrh says that's how you handle an overt Exactly, get an as-is-ness Even if the time is wrong on the camera. We still have the video of George being shot by the murderer. Does it matter? No, why? Because the phone was there at the time, which corroborates the fact that the shooter killed George, done and dusted.
Speaker 3:It's all spelled out.
Speaker 1:It's all spelled out. Go ahead, Quentin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, I was just agreeing, and I think that when we look at it from the way you just described it, it makes total sense. Anybody who's seen CSI or Law and Order, right, knows that this is how it's all done. But when we look at our personal lives, right, there's no law and order for relationships or for friendships or for family or whatever. There's no law and order for that. And so there has to be a deep dive into what is going on in our world, right, in our own reality, our own subjective reality, and so there has to be a deep dive into that. I know for me, when I do relationships and in my 2D flows, I write it out. I write out exactly how we're going to operate, I write out exactly how we're going to flow. I write it out because if it's not in writing, it isn't true, and I want to make this the truth of how we're going to flow. So let's write it out, let's talk about it.
Speaker 2:How you want to do it. You want to get mad at me? Okay, how are you going to get mad at me? You're going to yell. You see what I'm saying, and so all of this stuff becomes a clear indicator of how we're going to move through this thing, and anything that is contrary to what is true for us, anything that goes against what we've decided is going to be our lived truth. You've now created a problem. We've now created a lie. You're trying to control me. You're trying to do this, you're trying to get something out of me, you're trying to manipulate whatever the case may be, and now it's objectively so. It's not just my opinion, right? Because according to Article 3, subsection, paragraph 5, we decided that we're not going to do X, y, Z or whatever the case may be.
Speaker 2:And so all of these things, I think, are really, really important when we understand that when somebody is lying to you, they are trying to control you and get something. Whatever that something is trying to get something out of you in order for them to benefit and you to be, on whatever lesson, lessened Right To whatever degree, lessened Right To whatever degree, lessened Right.
Speaker 1:So a lie isn't just what is said, it's what is withheld for that person's longer term benefit. Omitted data why they're really doing this likely more dangerous than the outright lie itself. What are their intentions? And those intentions can be so far to the left that you're dealing with evil purposes. What can I get out of you and how can I misrepresent the situation through expectations and assumptions of what I'm telling you?
Speaker 2:the cover story is, as opposed to what it is, that they are really doing this for, and some people can play a really really long game, right, but the only way they can play the long game is if one is choosing not to observe some things, because the truth of the matter is, it's always spelled out, it's always there. Why can't we or why aren't we seeing the signs, as it were, right In Latin there's a term called quibono. Quibono and that means who benefits, and it's often invoked in legal matters and stuff like that, that the principle is that the most probable responsible party for an overt act, crime or whatever, is probably the one who stands to gain the most or stands to gain something from it. And so when you ask the question cui bono, who benefits, you can pretty much find okay, I see how you're trying to benefit off of me, I see how you're trying to use a situation in order to get something from me, and whether that be an organization, right, we asked the question how are you benefiting from me?
Speaker 2:Well, it could be because you want to get my money. You know what I mean. And so it could be a family, it could be relationship, it could be whatever. But where we understand this, we can then decide, maybe objectively. So if you're willing to be objective, you can decide whether or not you want to continue to play that game. Remember that song. I want to spread the news that if it feels this good getting used, oh you just keep on using me until you use me up.
Speaker 2:Some people okay with that. Some people choose to play that game enough until they used up and that's their choice. But if you really take a look, you know what's happening.
Speaker 1:You know what's going on right, and, and the thing is, if you may not see it right out of the gate, you might not see the indicators that say this is what's going on. The unfortunate nature of that is what steps have you taken to step further into the lion's den, or put your head in the lion's mouth and go? I'm gonna see what chomp right?
Speaker 2:and happens, never comes out of your mouth right right right right, good kitty, good kitty, right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah right right what now?
Speaker 3:what's this story where the lady um finds a snake frozen in the ice and then she takes the snake home, nurses it back to life and then one day the snake turns around and bites her and she questions the snake, I saved you, why did you turn around and bite me? And the snake simply replies look, you always replies, look, you always knew I was a snake.
Speaker 2:You knew I was a snake when you found me.
Speaker 1:Right, right, but you chose not to see that I was a reptile and I had slits in my eyes and that I had scales and that I was long and I everything with my. S's sayings.
Speaker 3:Well, not only that, but she had the expectation that she put care into the snake, that the snake would not harm her in return. That's right. She assumed the snake would respond accordingly reciprocate with kind that the snake would respond with kind, but that's its nature, because you were talking like asking a lion yeah, be a vegetarian.
Speaker 1:Right, you know what I mean. Right, you were talking to me and you presented things to me in such a way that I assumed that you were good and that you wouldn't eat me. Expectations and assumptions based off of falsehoods. Now we want to take this a little bit further. All right, this is what causes a thetan these actions by the quote unquote perpetrator snake, whatever you want to call it. This is what happens to a Phaeton in the long term, because they become incapable of being a capable Phaeton and having and running a body of their own and becoming incapable of occupying a body as the Phaeton in charge. They have degraded themselves so much over time by their actions, and I will give the caveat that their actions can be produced by earlier things on the track or other influences that influence them to cause them to commit these actions, that influenced them to cause them to commit these actions, but at the end of the day, they were there and communicating and allowed it to happen, period.
Speaker 1:Now, if you can't confront this type of a situation, you can't confront evil, you can't confront learning the information to protect yourself or, worse yet, you've learned the information, maybe not cleared your words, tried to apply it. No-transcript, you're not going to go anywhere and you're going to be on that dwindling spiral and over a long period of time. In the physical universe. You will be convinced that you are nothing and you can no longer occupy the body as a thetan in charge. And now you have to be somebody else and can no longer be yourself and are so fully out of valence that you might just end up as a grain of sand on a beach in perpetuity in the physical universe, because that's all you can be.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and even as you just talked about that, I can literally see in my mind the way a being would start to deteriorate and degrade himself or herself, that the being would start to become a degraded being.
Speaker 2:This is the reason why we do the life repair. This is the reason why we do false purpose bring down. This is the reason why we do the grades and things is because, on the bridge, as you start to raise back up, if one has the bridge as you start to raise back up, if one has the courage and the fortitude to really start taking a look, when you start to raise back up, the bridge is set up in such a way where it brings you up out of that mess. It brings you up out of that degraded condition of self because of the false purposes, the failed help, all the stuff that you've gone through, and it knocks you down so much so that the bridge is meant to bring you back up as a being, so that you can start to win again, you can start to see and observe things again clearly. Really, that's been going on this whole time, yep, and now you see it.
Speaker 3:And you know what? And it's so scary, though, because even below that, it's so normalized and you can't tell the difference until you experience the difference. And that's what's scary about it, because you might feel completely comfortable where you are, even though your body's screaming at you amounts of discomfort. And it's not until that you realize that, oh my god, there is another side to this. And it's not until you you feel it, see it, experience it, that you can be like my god, um, how did I exist this way for so long?
Speaker 1:that's's right and that's what a cognition and or an epiphany, a cognition in auditing is, is that you're realizing and looking at something and going, oh my God, it wasn't that it's this that is when your expectations and assumptions shift.
Speaker 1:And what we were describing as to when a person goes down this dwindling spiral and becomes a grain of sand on the beach or, even worse, a molecule. It's the exact opposite of OT, because they are unwilling to look at things for the way that they are and take responsibility for them. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink, and we can only help those who help themselves.
Speaker 3:Right, can you help yourself? I've heard that somewhere else before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you might've mentioned it in a podcast, or 20. I'm not sure, right.
Speaker 2:Or 20. Maybe Right.
Speaker 2:Maybe, yeah, in a podcast, or 20, I'm not sure, right or 20, right, maybe? Yeah, and and and the scientology accident, accident 50 says theta as mess must contain considerations, that which are lies. So if you have a thetan, if you as a spiritual being, can become so degraded that you, like you, talk about the grain of sand or the molecule or whatever, so degraded that you, that you like you, talk about the grain of sand or the molecule or whatever, so degraded that you drop down as mist, you must contain this, must contain lies or considerations that are lies. And so you're now in a position where it's harder hear us, it's harder for us as beings to come up out of that such a degraded condition.
Speaker 2:Condition because how are you operating? How are you moving? What could you do as a grain of sand? Besides, lay there and go to and fro with the wave, what could you do? But now you have that opportunity. Now you have this moment to start to observe truth. You have the opportunity to start to see yourself truly as you are, and this is why this is such an important time in our lives right now, because we now have a route, we have a way to do things that actually get you to see the lies, however they show up. You can see the lies as they are in your life and you can make them vanish. Right, it's such a good feeling.
Speaker 1:Right. So you know, the only way to control a person is to lie to them. If you are in a position that you are unhappy with, what lie is it that you're operating off of that disallows you to be able to be, do and have the things that it is that you feel where you should be? You have to look at that. What particular person, organization, physical location, all of the above and yourself you have to be honest with yourself and you have to be able to look and find out and do the detective work. And sometimes you don't want to know the answers. You don't want to know the answers on what you're being told, because you're not looking, you're listening. And I'd also like to mention that people on the internet Scientology, dianetics and LRH's detractors. They like to take this particular line. The only way to control someone is to lie to them and spin it.
Speaker 2:I know it's so stupid.
Speaker 1:And spin it and say aha, there he said it. See what he said. He's lying to people. This is what he is doing. That right there, that right there, is the lie that they are propagating, because they are taking it and they are twisting it and turning it into something that it was not intended to be.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:That is the best example I can give and you have to. They're liars Right. They have to look, not listen, and go. Okay, if that's what he meant, why don't you go into a Dianetics session with an open mind and get a little Dianetics auditing for free and you tell me how you feel after you come out of it, if you've given it the best shot and you want to help yourself honestly? If you can't be honest with yourself, you are fucked and I'm sorry, that's the word right there. I'm going to drop the.
Speaker 2:F-bomb. That's axiom number 942.
Speaker 1:Right Dash seven.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're fucked.
Speaker 1:If you can't be honest with yourself, you're fucked you're fucked and that that that is the the the long-term thing, and that is why the scientology ot levels work the way that they do. This universe abounds, abounds and is teeming with so much life. It's been a problem to societies since the beginning of time and the societies in it, and the only way to control these beings was to lie to them, to get them out of the way, so that these societies could do the things that they were going to do and eventually fold it up on themselves because they were lying to themselves. We live in the same type of society today, at this very moment, at this very moment of this podcast. I'm not getting political.
Speaker 3:I'm just'm just saying look, don't listen, right, you are being controlled and you are being lied to and it's pretty sad, like that's probably the biggest failure in our existence, isn't it the fact that we have the ability to lie and manipulate, like without that things are? Things would be extremely different without lies and manipulation. Yeah, completely different. Yeah, there are societies out there way more progressive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we'd be way more progressive. There are societies out there, in this, in in this universe, and universes on one side of this universe and on the other, and I'm not talking about the physical universe. They exist because there is no expectation and assumption based off of earlier lies. Everything is as it is supposed to be and there is no expectation or assumption other than the truth and the factual existence of the truth. And the only reason this universe persists in the first place and people say, well, this is a hologram and all of that Okay, you could kind of call it hologram, but it is what it is is because there's a lie behind it or it wouldn't be persisting.
Speaker 3:Period right and I think, and I think as well um, we all have an expectation to feel good constantly, whereas the reality is, you know, you can't always feel good and this, this world, isn't designed to be feel good all the way. And so we have this expectation of you, know everything. We've got to be happy all the way, and so we have this expectation of you, know everything. We've got to be happy all the time, we've got to be comfortable all the time.
Speaker 3:But it doesn't work that way and that in itself is a lie. You know what I mean, like observing the nature of this planet we're on, but then we make it worse on top. You, you know, even just as far as something like climate change, you know, we go through a period where it's just extra hot or extra cold. It's been like that for how long. You know? You can count the ice ages in the side of mountains. Yeah, you know what I mean. It's, it's not a new thing and it's not, you know. And then we lie, and you know this is just my own personal opinion, but we lie on top of these things.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean and who benefits part of this world yep well yeah, and and the lies.
Speaker 3:the lies are directed towards our own emotions, in our own fears, our own survival needs. But survival isn't easy either. It's painful, like if we had to live in a jungle. It would be a completely different experience to sitting in my warm home in the middle of winter, right.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Completely different.
Speaker 1:And, like we said, with movies and stories and all of that stuff, if they told you what the ending was at the beginning, would you watch the movie? Yeah, so you've agreed. Yeah, we've agreed to become aberrated in order to play this game, and the underlying theme is agreement is agreement. You agreed to watch the movie and invest two hours of your time in this universe in that body and at the end you go that's it.
Speaker 2:Oh, I hate that. Don't you hate a disappointing ending?
Speaker 1:yeah, that's it. I I can't get that two hours back and that 50 bucks and go into the AMC cinema and paying $10 for a Coke. God damn it.
Speaker 2:I did it again and imagine a whole lifetime of that. Imagine 80, 90, 100 years of living a life and never really coming to full awareness of self, never really coming to full knowingness of who you really are, of truth about who you really are. At the end, that's it, just poof, You're gone. Womp womp, womp.
Speaker 3:The end, it's all right. It's all right Because my next life will be better.
Speaker 2:Maybe not, and that's another game that you're going to have to start playing.
Speaker 1:You might come.
Speaker 3:Who knows, maybe not, and that's another game that you're gonna have to start playing. Who knows? Another game right? Who knows? I have a next.
Speaker 2:I I expect my next life to be better. I assume it's going to be better than this one, based on the earlier lies that you told yourself right right, right, you know.
Speaker 1:But who went to the movie theater again three months later and said, ah, maybe it'll be different? It wasn't.
Speaker 2:Right, it wasn't.
Speaker 1:You did.
Speaker 2:And look, the sequel is worse than the first.
Speaker 1:Right the original Right right.
Speaker 1:And you knew that going in Well, maybe this one will be different, okay, so okay. Did you maybe think that you shouldn't go to the movie theater, or maybe you shouldn't take that job, or maybe you shouldn't do this or do that? But you ignored the signs and you were there and communicating and you underestimated or overestimated the amount of effort, spent all that time and said well, my expectations weren't met. I assumed it would be this way, but I'm the one that believed it in the beginning, because I didn't do my homework as a thing, and I didn't take an objective look.
Speaker 1:That's right, you didn't.
Speaker 2:This is why, when you have people who like well, my pastor told me, and pastor said that such and such a so-and-so and it's like okay, but did told me and pastor said that such and such a so-and-so and it's like okay, but did you take a look at that scripture? Did you take a look at that and really dig into it? Do you know the etymology? Did you clear your words? Do you know what that really means?
Speaker 2:Who believed the pastor Right, you're listening to something and you're violating, because then that creates your expectations and assumptions and it could not be the full truth as is. It could not be the full truth, right? We're talking about people who use lies and manipulation in order to control you and keep you from surviving as well, in order for them to survive better. An awareness of self that is more pro-survival for you to have that self-awareness, that self-knowledge. That's what you should be running to, that's what you should be reaching out for at every moment, in every way.
Speaker 2:You know it's interesting because I'm going to say this I think that there is a persistence of drug use, of alcohol, of things that's happening to keep you in the line. That's right, to keep you from not knowing self, to keep you from not really truly knowing who you are. And with that persistence, and if it is something that persists in your universe, it's something that needs to be taken a look at. Look, take a look at it, that's right. What? What is this about? Where is this coming from? Why do I do this? Why does this the case? And what you'll find is a better knowingness of who you are.
Speaker 1:That's going to lead you into a better life yeah, and, and ultimately it comes down to this and this is going to be incredibly unpopular for me to say this, but it needs to be said you are either living the narrative of believing somebody else's narrative because of your expectations and assumptions, because they're lying to you about something, or you are the one creating the false narrative and using it on other people and going the direct result of what it is that you are doing. Whether you want to hear that or not, that is the case, and if you don't like me for saying that, I am totally fine with that. I accept the responsibility.
Speaker 2:I think that's so good. I love how you just said that and going the direct result of what you're trying to do. So what ends up happening is and make sure I get it right, jonathan what ends up happening is if somebody what's that old saying, when you point your finger at one person, you got three more pointing back at yourself, kind of thing, and it's like what you're trying to put on somebody else. You're really putting that on in your own universe as well.
Speaker 2:That's right, right that's right, it's not what I think. I think scripture says it's not what goes in your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of it. Yes, and so that's what defiles you. That's what you're making that your own reality in order to then give it to somebody else, right, in order to put it on somebody else. You better be careful what you say, baby. Be careful the lies you tell, because they for you. Every everything you say is for yourself you got it.
Speaker 1:You got it as highly unpopular as it is is is you're either taking responsibility and you're telling the truth about things, or you are creating a narrative to control others and yourself, because you are not being honest with yourself. And if you can't have that, you don't have to listen to this podcast. You don't need to be doing independent Scientology. Good luck with that. I hope it works out for you. Period or not, or not? Yep.
Speaker 3:And it's a tough one to navigate as well, because from the start we're taught how to lie. We're taught how to get our way. We're taught, you know, it's so ingrained in I don't know about all cultures, I can't say for all cultures but it's so ingrained in us to lie. We see it all the time Marketing lies, the news lies, our parents lie. I mean even Christmas, the first great lie, santa Claus. Imagine how many kids have actually literally been traumatized when they find out that santa claus is not real, doesn't it? You know? But we make it, we make it fun and we make it like it's nothing but. But you know this fantasy we've created in a, in a tiny person, and then the devastation of that you know. I remember with my daughter, you know she cried like how many kids cry when they find out and actually become. It's like their first big trauma, you know. And not only that, but that lies coming from who?
Speaker 1:right, you know the two people, the two people they see is god right, well, you look, you look at what christmas has become is. It doesn't have anything to do with with uh being the original, thought the original thought it well, yeah, that too, there's another lie.
Speaker 1:Yeah, on top of it it comes down to 75 of all retail sales happened between the day after Thanksgiving and Christmas Eve 75%, okay. So that's no different than a kid saying what there's no Santa Claus and a person finding out I thought you loved me, but you cleaned out my bank account. It's the same thing, right?
Speaker 3:So here's a question how many potential future valences does the lie of Santa Claus create in someone you know? When their parents told them about Santa Claus, they laughed about it. So what does that teach someone about lying? You just laugh it off.
Speaker 1:Yeah, somebody says, I couldn't tell them, it's nothing I couldn't tell them the truth. Yeah, why not?
Speaker 2:yep, yeah, I, I wasn't. I wasn't raised with a center cause. I was raised jehovah's witness, so we didn't have christmas right, right yeah christmas, you have birthdays, you have nothing, yeah I mean I don't want to tell my kids that there's no such thing as christmas.
Speaker 2:You weren't lied to right that in that, that, in that way, but other things anyway not in that way right right. But yeah, I, I think, I think you're so right because because with that with, with that awareness, a child could start to form their own belief system. They could start to form their own belief system, they could start to form their own viewpoint of the world. Think about this.
Speaker 3:Just think about it for a second.
Speaker 2:Or their own postures about how things come about, or how to earn money, or how to get the bike that I really wanted, or how to become a better citizen or a better human being. In order to have be, do have what it is that I need. Imagine, imagine the way one could become better if they weren't riddled with lies. I'm just, I'm making a blanket statement, but you get what I'm saying?
Speaker 2:yeah, right false narratives if I write a letter santa's gonna bring me a bike because I was good this year and so now I get a bike. The bike shows up and I'm thinking that this, this lie, gave it to me. This is crazy.
Speaker 3:That's right, a hundred percent. Like how many? How many parents complain about their children lying, yet they denied their own lie. You know what I?
Speaker 1:mean yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, chris, christmas sets up an expectation and assumption yep, but it's not just christmas, it's so many other things as well.
Speaker 1:All of them, yeah yeah, well, I mean, you know that society, yeah, the society just blindly follows, without any thought, without any consideration. It's insane religion with christmas he's got a list of the kids that have been naughty and nice yeah, so you better be good, right? So you better be good. We expect you to be good and we'll assume that you'll be good, because santa won't bring you any gifts.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, well they're lying to you, saying that, yeah right, they're lying to you saying that.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, they're lying to you saying that. And there you go. Okay, so this lie was told in order to control you, which goes back to what?
Speaker 3:Controlling your children's behavior. That's right, exactly so what are you teaching them? You're teaching these kids how to learn manipulative, controlling tactics From day one, firsthand, firsthand, firsthand, from the people that you love the most, especially, especially so. Then what happens when you fall into a relationship? Oh, I'll just lie to them so they'll love me. Right, that's how my parents did it to me. I'll just lie to them to get certain behaviors from them. Or, if you won't be good, I will do this. Right and the other thing is think about this.
Speaker 2:As a child, you're getting missed with holes as well. So let's say a child has been naughty, let's say something has happened or whatever. And if Santa has this list of who's naughty, even there's like a mist with hole right there Like dang, he gonna know about it. Now he gonna get that puppy or whatever. They're functioning with a mist, with hole, and they become bullies. That's how you get bullies, by the way.
Speaker 3:If you're not behind, you're screwed buddy.
Speaker 1:Expectations and assumptions brought about by control and manipulation, by altering the nature of reality, and you agreeing to it because you didn't look and not listen for yourself for arthur and well, go ahead, arthur, well just quickly, so I just did a little expectations versus assumptions in my artificial intelligent friend and um.
Speaker 3:So assumptions and the definition of assumptions the thing that is accepted as true or is certain to happen without proof, it's something you you take for granted and then, with expectations, a strong belief that something will happen or be the case in future, it's something you look forward to or anticipate. So there's a similar but but very different as well, and the impact of assumptions. So the impact of an incorrect assumption can lead to misunderstandings, disappointment, conflict when reality doesn't align with what was assumed, and it could cause you to jump towards inaccurate conclusions. And then the impact of negative expectations can motivate action and help you prepare for the future. However, unrealistic or uncommunicated expectations can lead to disappointment, frustration and resentment when they aren't met, and what's interesting about both of these is, especially when working with other people, is how it can impact the trust on another person, and that's what gets impacted the most is our trust.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it's important to say and it's been said before is if you do everything you can possibly do within your ability and you know that you've done the best that you can do for who you are at that moment, for another person, that's truth.
Speaker 1:If you didn't do it and you phoned it in or you gave excuses for why this couldn't be done and that couldn't be done and I'm not responsible for this and I'm not responsible for that did you do everything you could possibly do? That is where you're lying to yourself because you are unwilling to confront what it is you're dealing with as a being. But if you can keep that line in there and you do everything that you can do and you're still being made wrong for what it is that you're doing, like we talked about at the beginning of the podcast, you're trying to help another person get auditing and get up the bridge and take responsibility and confront the things that they need to confront as an auditor, and people look at you and go. They think they're better than me because they're helping me, bruh that's one of the liabilities, though, and it makes sense.
Speaker 2:it makes sense as a liability of being an auditor, because, because a person in that condition, a person in that condition would been began to see the one auditing them as the one that has a better grasp on life or a better grant than whatever you know, people think, people think all kinds of things, but they start to think that way, and so I can see that being a liability of being an auditor, of auditing someone, that that they start to resent you because they think they think that you think you're better than them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this doesn't just come with auditing, it comes with oh hey, you know what, I'm going to help you out, I'm going to give you a job. You lost some money. Hey, you know what, I'll employ you and I'll give you some money to get by and everything like that. And then they're like, well, he's helping me, I'll take it, but they resent you for it. And then months and months, months and months later they come back and they say, oh, he's an asshole.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that actually happened to me in a relationship. I was literally told in a relationship that I I resent you for cause I started my own business. I was and I was like, listen, let's build our own business, let's build our business together, let's be partners, let's make money, let's buy real estate, let's do all this stuff. And when I did it but my 2D didn't I was resented for it. You think you better than everybody. You think you better than me. I just I know tech and I know how to apply it and I gave it to you and I asked you to come participate, I asked you to be a part of it.
Speaker 1:What did I do wrong?
Speaker 2:You did it, you did it is what you did wrong. You actually did what you said you was going to do that's right.
Speaker 3:You know what I love about our bodies. One I love about our bodies is how, how much of a barometer they are. When navigating these things like not only to ourselves, but if you self-wire, your body reacts to it. It makes you feel uncomfortable. When somebody's lying to you, your body starts to feel uncomfortable. Yeah, it's like a brown. Our bodies are yeah, that's what I'm saying. Our bodies are incredible barometers, um, but you know, if, if the barometer is constantly running, you know, at 11, then it's it's harder to see. See the real subtle, subtle indicators that come on as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, that's that's why you have have people that do do body language readings and things like that, and and and they're they're amazingly accurate on it yeah, you know I'm really on photography. We'll show these things, yeah yeah yeah, there's a lot of advanced things that are that are uh available to, to look at these things outside of dynamics and scientology, and some of them have value. Some of them. Some of them don't. Uh, you know phrenology? I don't think so, but uh, it's an interesting body is just a communication tool.
Speaker 2:I mean the the whole, this whole thing is just a communication tool and so it's going to communicate one way or the other. Yeah, you know whether it could be verbally or non-verbally, right?
Speaker 1:And the thetan affects the body, and the body responds. And so there you go. The puppet master controls the puppet, and the puppet master is feeling nervous. Ok, the body is going to feel nervous too. So you know, at the end of the day, anxiety. Yeah, anxiety. So these, these, these things show up. They're indications, and so the indications are what you need to look for, not listen. Look for not listen.
Speaker 2:You have to be able to observe, yes, it screams at you so loudly.
Speaker 3:How can you ignore it?
Speaker 1:Right, right, but I love them. They would never do that to me. Meanwhile, meanwhile, yeah, yeah, meanwhile, exactly.
Speaker 2:Your whole life falling apart.
Speaker 1:Now you're at the adverse effect and you go. What happened? They loved me. Wake up, right.
Speaker 2:Wake up. Wow, you said you're going to ask a question, arthur.
Speaker 3:so that's a little biblical. So when adam and eve ate from the forbidden fruit, the forbidden fruit was of knowledge of good and evil a tree of knowledge, of good and evil. What were they? What were they before they knew about good and evil?
Speaker 2:They existed, they were.
Speaker 3:No lies. Yeah, yeah, absolutely no lies.
Speaker 1:That's isness, that is isness. That is what it is, that isness. The isness is what it is. It doesn't mean it's good, bad or indifferent. That's is what it is. It doesn't mean it's good, bad or indifferent, that's just what it is at that moment. And then we go from there.
Speaker 1:It's when we add a lie right we add a lie on the line or there was a lie on the line already, it's still the isness. The isness is, it's an alter is and it doesn't change until somebody looks at it and inspects it and doesn't listen. Then they get the as isness and they go. Oh shit this is what this is right, and sometimes it takes a couple of times from a couple of different family members, for you to go. Oh shit, I am in a pit of vipers. What the fuck am I doing here?
Speaker 2:yeah, yep, yep, and and it's, and it's that realization is cognition. Is that aha moment if you go back and listen to that podcast called Can Independent Scientology Save you? Go back and listen to that, because that's really what it is, what other religions call salvation. It really is that awareness of truth, whatever you want to call it, and that awareness of truth opens up the road. The truth will set you free kind of vibe. The awareness of truth opens up the road for you to start to live a life that's different from the life you had been living, the journey you had been on. And the thing I love about Scientology is that it cuts through all of the hyperbole and all of the stories and all the parables and all of that, and it cuts straight. It goes straight to the heart of this is what's happening to you as a being, and you can have those gains and those revelations and those realizations. You can have them every moment, every session, every session. You can have them. It's fantastic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and this is the last analogy that I'm going to make. We've all heard the expression the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Okay, and if that tree produces tainted or poisoned apples, why are you standing under the tree? Why are you eating the apple? Who decided to eat the apple and stand under the tree?
Speaker 2:Listen, I curse the tree from the roots up the whole tree going to die when I'm done with it and in some cases, in some cases that that is you looking, not listening, because you've realized the tree produces poisoned apples. Poisoned fruit Right. You judge a tree by the fruit that it bears. That is right.
Speaker 3:No matter how much it made your stomach turn, you just kept eating it anyway, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and that's the lie. That's the lie that you accept, because you didn't look, you listened. So for Quentin and Arthur and myself, we hope this has been a revelatory podcast. I myself think it's probably the most important podcast we've ever done. It's just a matter of whether the listener duplicates, understands this information and can take it and, most importantly of all, apply it to their own lives, on their own personal level, their own relationship level, their own group level, their own world level, with all of the insanity that's going on in this planet for the last squillions of years and in this universe. Apply it. I beseech you to apply it. Get in session, get on course, have discipline, get up the bridge. We have a half price bridge special. We can handle this for you. We can help you handle it, but you have to take that first step.
Speaker 1:Call us 816-355-4606 or email us. Contact us on our websites ao-gporg collegeofindependentscientologycom. Talk to our AI, finn, in the bottom right-hand corner of the college, bottom right-hand corner of aogporg, corner of the college, bottom right-hand corner of aogporg. Get in touch with us. Let's get this sorted out so that you have different expectations than you have right now. Okay, that's all there is to it. Aogporg, get in touch with us. We'll get you in session For Quentin and Arthur and I namaste, and we love you. Bye-bye, peace.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye, thank you, thank you.