Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
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Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE11EP16 - Independent Scientology and the Problem of Sex - Part I
The eternal struggle between spiritual growth and sexual desire has puzzled philosophers, religious leaders, and seekers throughout human history. Why does something seemingly natural create such spiritual conflict? In this thought-provoking exploration, we unravel the fascinating spiritual mechanics behind sex and its impact on beings beyond the physical plane.
Starting with a powerful technical reference from 1982, we examine how both pain and sex function as artificial wavelengths that can be manufactured and manipulated – not as biological imperatives or spiritual necessities. This perspective shifts our understanding dramatically: rather than viewing sexual desire as something to suppress or indulge blindly, we can recognize it as an energy pattern that affects consciousness in specific ways.
The most revealing insight emerges when we compare how these two forces affect a spiritual being: while pain causes withdrawal and contraction, sex creates fixation and loss of power. This explains why spiritual traditions have cautioned against sexual obsession – not from moral judgment, but from understanding energetic consequences. When fixated on this single wavelength, the expansive joy of creation that should involve the whole being becomes contracted into a momentary, limited experience.
We delve into practical applications of this knowledge, discussing how sexual energy can be sublimated into higher creative endeavors. This isn't about denial but redirection – channeling the creative force into endeavors with greater lasting impact. Observe how couples naturally shift their focus from sexual fixation to child-rearing, business building, or artistic creation, experiencing different forms of joy and connection.
Understanding these dynamics helps explain society's manipulation through sexual imagery while providing tools for greater self-determination. The real freedom comes not from indulgence or suppression, but from knowing yourself as a spiritual being experiencing a human journey – maintaining conscious awareness through all physical experiences without losing your essential nature or power.
Join us for part two where we'll continue exploring even more controversial aspects of this topic that we've been wanting to address within independent Scientology for years. What perspectives have you developed about balancing spiritual growth with physical experience?
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Hi and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast brought to you by ao-gporg and the collegeofindependentscientologycom. This is season 11, episode 16. The title of this episode is going to be the Problem of Sex, and I am here with Quentin Stroud. This is a two-parter. This is part one. Part two will be later this week. Quentin, how are you?
Speaker 2:I'm doing fantastic.
Speaker 1:Good, me too, so Excellent. Where do we want to start off on the problem of sex when it comes to independent Scientology and its viewpoint and planet earth's viewpoint?
Speaker 2:Listen, I like sex like the next guy. Okay, I just want to start there, and, but I want to. I want to also say and understand that where we're coming from with this, I think is going to be really important to understand you as a being and understand that how, as a being, sex has been in pretty much every major religion, every major viewpoint on the world. That sex has been something that people have wrestled with when it comes to one's spiritual well-being, right, sex has been something that many philosophies and many religions have wrestled with, and I think that there's a reason why and when I encountered this particular reference that we're going to be going over, and maybe some others as well, when I encountered these particular references by L Ron Hubbard, it kind of made it kind of all come to a head. It kind of makes sense as to oh, this is why people have a problem with this thing, right? So we're going to talk about the problem of sex, and I think this is something worth listening to for those of you who want to hear.
Speaker 1:So what is the problem of sex modern day?
Speaker 2:Well, do you want to start off with the reference that we're talking about?
Speaker 1:Yeah, you can read that one. As far as the pain in sex goes, Right, yeah, right, yeah Right.
Speaker 2:So we're talking about a specific reference here.
Speaker 1:Let's see here, and this is from 1982. 26 August 1982. It's an HCO bulletin. He says there are two items in this universe that cause more trouble than many others combined. One is pain, the other is sex. One should know more about these things. They may have applications, but they are used by destructive beings in great volume to cave others in. Despite the false data of Freud, psychologists, psychiatrists and other criminals, they are not native to a being. They are only artificial wavelengths. They have exact frequencies that can be manufactured. A being or a machine can synthesize either one pain becomes a lot.
Speaker 2:I want to. I want to start there first, okay. So I think that I think that first, that first little chunk is important, because when he starts this thing off, he talks about these things that in this universe that cause more trouble than many others combined. One is pain and the other is sex. Now, I think this is huge around the control of people.
Speaker 2:When you look around the enslavement of people, when you look around all this stuff that kind of goes on, you see two things that are used very destructively he used the word in order to control people. One is pain. Go back to the whippings and the beatings of slaves. Go back to using torture chambers and torture mechanisms to control people and get people to do what you want them to do or confess what you want them to confess Pain. And the other is sex, and you think about the way sex is used to control and to manipulate, right? And so when we look at these two things, the thing that really stood out for me here is he said that these are not native to a being, and so when we talk about this from an independent Scientology perspective, we're talking about, obviously, as you know, walking around and working with these messed physical bodies right, if you want to have children, if you want to procreate, if you want to do all these things or whatever.
Speaker 2:Sex is a part of all that, but what is it to a being, though? What's the point? What's the point of sex to a being? What's the point of pain to a being that has no nerve endings, no central nervous system to speak of? What's the point of pain to a being? So, when LRH wrote this reference on sex and pain, of pain and sex, I thought it was really really powerful the way he kind of went into it, talking about these things as a wavelength, not as a, not as a something that a being necessarily needs or wants, right, right, unless they've been conditioned to go down this road as far as pain and as far as sex goes, and so I just wanted to kind of open the conversation with what we're talking about here. We're talking about pain and sex, particularly the problem of sex from a being's perspective, and how, as you, as we kind of unpack this conversation a little bit more what does it do to you, what could it do to you as a being that could send you off the rails?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you also have to take into consideration the axioms that what is the greatest drive that a thetan has, and that is to cause and effect. Yeah, so in, in so doing and looking at that, on this the the second dynamic, you're trying to cause an effect and if you don't cause an effect, you are disgruntled by the fact that you are not causing the effect that you want to cause. Depending at, depending on where that is on the tone scale. And, yeah, you go sex. If you look at where we're owning bodies, controlling bodies and all of that is, it's on the the bottom right hand side of the tone scale and it's not very high. And then, as you go up the tone scale, you start to sublimate sex for other forms of creation, higher toned and higher toned, and all of that.
Speaker 1:Now there's other other lower toned harmonics where you have sex and games where it could be strip poker or it could be. You know you're dressing up or acting something out, that type of a thing. So you have these other different types of harmonics. So that's another thing, but they all end up being causing an effect. And again and we've mentioned this, I don't know how many times lately in podcasts is, in order to play a game, one has to agree to become aberrated determinism in order to be the effect of another being. And therein is where you start to go down the scale, the dwindling spiral, if you're not careful.
Speaker 2:And and that's what you see, that that this society has to where, if advertising doesn't have sex in it, it doesn't work well, yeah, there's a whole statement in sales called sex sales and I think it's really interesting that when people really take a step back, whether it be with our children, when your child is growing up, your child is living, a parent knows instinctively to keep their child away from sex. Isn't that interesting, like there's a thing that kind of works in us to say, oh no, you're not going to come near my child with that, right? And so I? But we didn't say, but it's natural, but it's a part of the human experience, is the's a blah, blah, blah, blah, blah?
Speaker 2:And yet when your child comes out, you know, do not come near my child with that stuff, period. Why is that? Because we know instinctively as beings, we know that sex is low on the vibrational energetic tone scale, energetic tone scale. We know that sex is low on the tone scale and that, and that it can come through or can be utilized by destructive beings for destructive ends. Right, you see Right, and so go ahead.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say, and you look at, you look at all of the controversy around these leaders and the, the Jeffrey Epstein thing and all of that and peace and hate and all of that and and it's really freaking dark. What, yeah, is portrayed as to what happens to children with beings who are aberrated on sex, and I I mean when I say dark, I mean as dark as it gets, I mean it's not pretty, and there's been a lot of communication about that as to what's really going on and how pain and sex and children are used to control other individuals once they get them addicted to that lowest of low orders when it comes to governmental types and politicians and things like that, and that's, that's how far down the scale is. I mean, you know, I don't even want to get into it on the podcast, but I mean yeah, yeah which people, people who know, people who know what we're talking about, know what we're talking about.
Speaker 2:And I think that if we continue the reference illerate says, pain becomes a lock on a being, a being's abhorrence for misalignment of his own electrical flows. It is a lock upon unconsciousness which shuts off knowingness. So he's talking about pain and sex and in this case he's talking about how pain becomes this abhorrence of misalignment of his own electrical flows. Again, a being doesn't have a nerve system. You as a spiritual being, you as you, the body has nerve endings. The body has these electrical channels. Body has nerve endings, the body has these electrical channels. The being just deals with energy, right, and so the being doesn't feel pain but can recognize or have an abhorrence for misalignment of his electrical flows, right, and it's a lock upon unconsciousness which shuts off his knowingness. And so to a being, the worst pain is not know. To a being, the worst pain is mystery, to be in total mystery. I don't know, I don't know what to do, I don't know what's going to happen. I don't know, I don't know, I don't know that's suffering to a being, you see. And so why is it that so many people have such a horrible anxiety, so much a horrible feeling when, when they don't know what's going to happen and they don't know where their next paycheck is coming from. They don't know where it's, because to a being to not know is painful. You see, that's right.
Speaker 2:Think about your let's go to the body for a second. When you're trying to walk around and you got a pain, and a person has a pain in their knee or a pain in their back and they can't move, your electrical flows are off and it's painful to not be able to flow the way you want to flow. As a being, I can't walk, I can't move, I can't function, I can't get around. It's pain, you see. Well then he says sex is a lock on and perversion of the joy of creation which involves a whole being and expands him. This is so good, but by using just one wavelength sex, just one wavelength sex, this can be perverted. And he contracts. This is such a powerful reference. If y'all get this Sex, go ahead, go ahead, please, that's okay.
Speaker 1:It's one of those things where you become sort of myopic on it, where you're stuck on that wavelength, so focused that that's the only thing that you well, that's what myopic is is you're only on one wavelength and that's what. That's what you see in this. This, this society is, uh, you know, if it hasn't got titties, I don't want to watch it, right, right, kind of thing.
Speaker 2:I mean, you see that and you can fixate on it, absolutely, absolutely. But what I think is really powerful here and I'm going to break this down a little bit because he said it's a lock on and a perversion of the joy of creation, which involves a whole being and expands him. And you have the ability to create worlds and universes and solar systems and suns and moons, and you're the joy of that, the joy of creation, the joy of expansion, the joy of being right, and that involves the whole being and expands him as a joy of creation. But just by using this one little wavelength, sex, I do Pew, pew. I do it like that because that's all it is. Like a little pew, you can have a little orgasm.
Speaker 2:Pew In the grand scheme of the universe, that's what it is. A pew, you know. And this can be perverted and he contracts because that one little wavelength which is supposed to be in the body, the epitome, the climax that's the word we use the climax of the joy of creation, ain't that something Of all the power that you are as a being? And your climax is?
Speaker 1:pew Right. Right, is that second to three or something, you know? Whatever I mean, however long it is, and then it's like, well, you just spend an hour to get to that point.
Speaker 2:and it's like well, okay, you know where.
Speaker 1:Eternity yeah, if you, if you do a painting or you create a building or a business or whatever, that is also part of the joy of creation. So, but it, yeah, the problem lies in where it a person becomes so ingrained into that particular wavelength that that's all that exists. And that's something that you see in this, in this society. I mean, you know, you look at Facebook, you look at Instagram and all of this stuff and these influencers and the posing and the bathing suits and the this and the that and all of this and it's and it's all used. I mean, you know they're, they're called thirst traps. Yeah, you know, and so and so, and, and it's important to note.
Speaker 1:It's important to note that lrh says in the axioms that a being chooses to be restimulated on this wavelength, chooses. And that's where everything goes wrong. Because you can have, know you could have somebody who's who's allergic to apples, but yet they still go to an apple farm. Okay, why are you going to the apple farm if you're allergic to apples? I just can't help myself. I just love your apple. I love it, yeah, but it makes you break out into hives, I know, but I yeah, that's so weird.
Speaker 2:It's so like that yeah, that beautiful redness.
Speaker 1:You know the smell of those blossoms, those blossoms bro, let me tell you I mean that's. It's funny as an analog, just to say it like that, because it's, it's right, that's literally what it is. Is it's this fixation on that, that wavelength of those apples, you know right?
Speaker 2:and so, and so it can. It perverts, perverts. And let me be clear when he does the word perverted, I think the first thing that we come to our mind is something lascivious, something disgusting, something gross or whatever, but but, but perverted. In this sense he's talking about the being and he's talking about getting thrown off. Course, right, if the idea is being thrown off, perversion, the. When something is perverted, I mean vert here, which means to turn is is, is something being thrown off, right? And so when he talks about sex as a, this can be perverted and he contracts, it's talking about the being can be thrown off and and shrunken. And he goes on to the next, uh, next couple of lines and he says when pain enters the scene uh, enters a scene, a being withdraws contracts and can go unconscious. We know that to be true. When pain comes in, a being will recoil from pain. The stove is hot. Oh, you know, whatever you know, the being will recoil from pain, withdraws contracts and can go unconscious. Totally, totally. You know passing out.
Speaker 2:But then it says when sex enters the scene, a being fixates. Isn't this interesting? A being fixates and loses power. This is so interesting when, six inches those apples, right? A bean fixates and loses power. Now, what happens when you have your little? What happens when you have your little most of the time?
Speaker 1:people, people, be like and they pass out they pass out those apples, man, they make me sleep after I have them. Well, that's because you, you have an allergy to them. I mean it's, it's an analog, but I mean that's, that's the thing and and it, yeah, it's, it's a way to describe it is is once you once, once you've you've experienced that wavelength and that, and then then you kind of go, okay, I'm good, I got the monkey off my back, let's see what I can go do. That's constructive. And then you start to your power starts to return and you're like okay, so where do you want to go for breakfast?
Speaker 2:Right, Because get this, because that's really what it's about. Right, it really is about the connection. It's about the beings interconnecting. It's about the beings having a calm line, communication line. It's about the beings even in the Bible. The original translation of the Bible says Adam knew Eve. Adam knew Eve, which we understand. To know your wife in that context was mean to have sex with her, but the idea was that, as beings, they would get to know each other and their knowingness of each other was climactic. Their knowingness of each other was expansive and huge. Their knowingness of each other was what you really wanted from another being, not their meat. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Right, yeah, it's very low. It's very low order yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a very low order. You can talk about this later in another reference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and you see, you see this in people who have eating disorders and stuff like that, and I just love to have that steak. I have to have so much steak. You know that, and and and so they, they get fixated on this particular wavelength of consuming, you know, meat or whatever it is. You know, and and so it not only happens with sex, but I mean a being can focus their attention on anything and get fixated on it, and this is one way, but it's one of the most prevalent ways for beings with bodies.
Speaker 2:Well, and again, we're being a bit tongue-in-cheek in this conversation about it because obviously, as a human, we're being, you know, a bit tongue in cheek in this conversation about it because obviously, as a human hy, as Scientologists knowing how to know, as independent Scientologists, what we're emphasizing here is that the highest order of that on the know-to-mystery scale, the highest order of that, is knowingness. It's knowingness is the highest order of a being, right, sexiness, right. If you look at the 1953 Notabitry scale, it's way down there, right, sex is way down there on the scale. And so what we're trying to make one mindful of is that what is sex for, what is sex for, what is sex useful for? And what is sex to you, as a big giant, being having these interactions with bodies, right? And so if you understand what we're trying to get over here, you know we're not trying to demonize sex, but we're just trying to help you to understand and appreciate what it is in the grand scheme of things as a being. That's all.
Speaker 1:Right, and it goes on to say the destructive creatures who don't want people big or reaching, since they are terrified of punishment due to their crimes, invented pain and sex to shrink people and cut their alertness, knowingness, power and reach. Thus you see people who are quote-unquote, experiencing either pain or sex, introverting and not producing much. Pain and sex were the invented tools of degradation. This is how you suck people into bodies by using advertising and movies and porn, and you know all this. That's what.
Speaker 2:That's what consumerism is yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just just.
Speaker 1:Consumerism is give me more, give me more right, right, because that's that's, that's what gets gets their attention. And once you have their attention, you can, you can drive it in any direction that you want, anywhere you want, right Almost with a body, almost a Pavlovian sort of. Show me the boobies and then and you salivate, right, right, and that's it.
Speaker 1:And he says believe it or not, a being can be so overwhelmed by either pain or sex, he or she becomes an addict of it. And now this is an important point, because at the time and I'm not trying to cross flows here or anything like that with biology or psychology and independent Scientology, but what happens Pavlovian-wise is that people get addicted to chaos. What happens Pavlovian-wise is that people get addicted to chaos. They get addicted to sex because of the dopamine that they get on there, which is the body's reward for giving it what it wants, which is what happens with sex and other addictions is that the body goes squirt, thank you. And that's what he's talking about here. At the time it it hadn't been discovered yet. So he says, priests become flagellants and cut themselves to pieces with self-whipping.
Speaker 1:Torturers drool over pain. Lovers are very seldom happy. People do the most irrational things when overcharged with sex, and prostitutes use it as a knowing stock in trade because they know how easy it is to get For sale. Yeah, and so it's the oldest profession on the planet, because that's how long this has going on. He goes on to say combined pain and sex make up the insane jack the rippers who killed only prostitutes, and the whole strange body of sex murder freaks, including hinkley, the guy that shot ronald reagan, and the devotees of late night horror movies under the false data of the psychs, who have been on the track for a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe.
Speaker 1:Both pain and sex are gaining ground in the society and, coupled with robbery, which is a hooded companion to both, may very soon make the land a true jungle of crime. And that's how you see that with drugs and sex and how those two wavelengths cross over each other because of the dopamine thing, and you get paid in drugs for sex or you get sex for drugs or that type of a thing, and your opium dens and all of that in China thousands of years ago, and sex and all this stuff. So they're not far apart because of the dopamine correlation.
Speaker 2:Right and we understand that. Now, talking about hormones and stuff like that, yeah, and brain chemistry and stuff, yeah, and what happens?
Speaker 1:And then you've got cortisol and all that stuff along with it too. You want to take on the next paragraph?
Speaker 2:well, I was gonna, before we go to that, I was gonna say here too that, um, when he talks about, um, the horror movies, I kind of chuckled because this was written in the 80s, right 82. But if you remember, if you remember the horror movies of that time, like late 70s, early 80s, you know, I remember like one of my first words was um, jason, you know, friday the 13th, jason horhees, and I remember as a kid even watching these little horror movies and you will always see some girl running out, boobs hanging, flapping around, screaming, you know, and then he had to always have this girl in these horror movies at the time, because there was this whole, this fascination with pain and sex and the girl. They were getting it on in the little hut or whatever. At Cap Crystal Lake, the teenagers were getting it on in the little hut or whatever. At Cap Crystal Lake, the teenagers were getting it on, and then Jason Capeman killed them all and splashed blood everywhere. It was such an interesting thing and yet it sold billions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and people identified with that, and I myself always found it really abhorrent to see those two things combined. I'm like what, what is this? You know, that's like putting gravy on top of cheesecake and saying, you know, this is good and that's another thing. Along with it is sex, eating and pain. They all, they all are almost right next to each other. And then you see these combinations of of foods with sex and I, I don't know. For me it's just, it's not a thing, but I just find it really. You know, it's really strange how you saw. You saw that in the 80s too, in a lot of the movies where they would combine all these things and it just didn't make sense. But, like you said it, it does now a lot of yeah, a lot of people, you're right, and it's just so bizarre how those things combine yeah, and I and I only again bring this up to understand what was.
Speaker 2:But by you understanding what's going on, you become less the effect of it right. And so by understanding, by understanding how sex is as a wavelength is being used, you can understand then what might be happening with one's body, you can understand what be happening with one's fixations. If that's a thing, you can understand kind of what's going on with it, and then you could then become the master. What does it say? The captain of your own ship? You become the captain of your own ship. That was a thing in the late 80s with, uh, jerry seinfeld are you the master of your own ship.
Speaker 1:That was a thing in the late 80s with Jerry Seinfeld.
Speaker 2:Are you the master of your own domain? Because they were trying to avoid having sex.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they were trying to avoid masturbating and see who could last the longest. And Kramer goes in, slaps his money down on the counter and says I'm out.
Speaker 2:I'm out right.
Speaker 2:I'm telling you so again. This is really important. So LRH goes on to say here, go into an asylum or prison and look at the increasing institutional population and know what you're looking at. In the main these are pain and sex addicts, dedicated to degraded dedicated, I'm sorry, decadent and degraded and no longer capable. They were sent on that route down through the ages by the psychs, like psychiatrists and they. And here they are still in the psychs' hands. And here they are still in the psychs' hands. And do they get well or go straight? No, whether in prisons or insane asylums, they just get worse. And the psychs in both places rub their bloodied hands as they turn their products loose again upon the remaining population.
Speaker 2:It's no accident, and the stock and trade of Sykes are pain and sex. They will even tell you it's natural to steal To compound their felony. If this is, I'm sorry to compound their felony. If is a possible, if this is, I'm sorry to compound their felony. If that is possible, they tell you it's the body doing it. This is so interesting. They tell you it's the body doing it Another crushing, big false datum on top of all their other lies. I want to stop here because there's this thought that the body is craving something, or the body is hungry. I think it's so interesting. There's this idea that the body is hungry, you're fiending for it.
Speaker 2:Some people say, right, and if you just look at your, if you just think of it as a body's thing, then in all essence, it could easily be conquered. Right, Because that's what you're here to do. You, as a spiritual being, you're here upon a conquest of the physical universe, right. And so if it's just the body's craving it, the my body, oh, I just need it. You know, if it's just the body's craving it, it could easily be conquered, because that's what you're here to do. You're here to control your body. You move it around, you move it from point A to point B. You know, you get in the shower, you get out the shower, you go to work, you come back from work, you get in the bed, you go to sleep. You handle your body quite well most of the time, right.
Speaker 2:And yet when it comes to something on these levels pain, sex, when it comes to sex it's like, oh, your body needs it, your body's doing it. That's not true. It's not true. I can't help myself. And it's not true. It's not true. I just can't help myself, mm-hmm. And it's a lie. And the reason why it persists is because it's a lie that they're telling you, or the lie to think that the body just needs this, you to understand.
Speaker 2:You are a causative, spiritual being, operating a body to communicate and identify with other beings that are operating with bodies. Just communicate, just communication via right, and you're having this experience. And if you think your body is doing it, then you won't be able to control it on some level. That's right, because it's something divorced or separated from the being. So you think it was just the body. The body needs it, the body needs it, right? Well, how do people go? How do I'm going to just go here? Well, how does one go? 40 days and 40 nights of fasting? How does one do that If it's the body must have? No, you can control your body. It's really interesting.
Speaker 1:I just want to say that, yeah, and that's if you have control over it and you're like like, well, you know, I, I need to have sex this many times a day, and and you, you don't put in a control, well, it's not even say need you just end up doing it way more than you should? Who's? Who's in control? Is it, is it you, or is it? Is it the body? And if you blame the body, you won't be able to control it, because you have to have some self-discipline on it so that you well, because if you don't, if you, if you can't produce, then you won't be having sex much longer, because you won't have a roof over your head or you know whatever. So I mean, it's one of those things that we're not. Again, we're not trying to vilify it, we're just saying that you have to understand the appropriate source of the compulsion, the drive to do it, and take responsibility for it as well.
Speaker 2:And, as an independent Scientologist, you are self-determined. So there's no shame here. There's no, you know none of that. You are a self-determined, free-willed individual. This is the thing, though. When you understand, in the creation of your own universe, the creation of your own life, you get to determine what significance which is something I'm going to talk about a little bit later what significance sex plays in your universe. Right, and the reason why I said it earlier that we're kind of being very tongue-in-cheek about it and talking about the little pew, the little pew that you try to get to, the little pew that you try to get to. I'm doing that in order to help you to appreciate, at least, where this could fall in the significance of your whole life and the significance of your whole creation and your whole existence. You know, yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, and then people, people, get obsessed with causing that effect. I need to cause that effect, I need to cause that effect, and, and they operate on that their whole lives. And if I can't cause that effect, I need to cause that effect, I need to cause that effect, and they operate on that their whole lives. And if I can't cause that effect, I'm no good. I have low self-esteem. I have this and it's all negative because you have to be willing to receive an effect as well, because if it's one-sided, it's a stuck flow, and that's the thing is that this whole thing has to be an inflow and an outflow. It can't just be one or the other. Otherwise it's a stuck flow, and that's where the problem begins and the obsession begins with it is. You have to balance it out and you also have to sublimate, because to the degree that you're sublimating is to the degree that you're doing other things above that, as far as causing an effect on the meat body, so to speak.
Speaker 2:There you go. I was going to say explain, sublimating.
Speaker 1:Sublimating would be okay instead of having sex. Why don't we create something together beyond that, you know? I mean, have you ever noticed where, when you start getting really creative even if it's in a second dynamic and you start getting creative and you start creating other things, your attention comes off of the sex and it becomes a higher tone, like we're going to design a house or we're going to go out and we're going to look at furniture, or we're going to, we're going to, you know, we're going to go out and we're going to look at at furniture or we're going to.
Speaker 1:We're going to, you know, we're going to go out and shop for a piece of land to to build a farm on or build a business together and everything the sex sort of goes into the background.
Speaker 1:Because there's this higher, you're sublimating the sex for a higher version of creativity and experience that has a longer lasting effect, and you're like, wow, look at that. Whatever it was that we created as a you know, a dynamic duo. And you see this on the third, you see this on the third. Dynamic as well is when you get a group and they're all creating something and everything like that, and you and you go on and you, you work hard and you're working 12 hours a day and everything that. And you go out and you work hard and you're working 12 hours a day and everything.
Speaker 1:You don't give a shit about sex because your morale is so high because your production is there. Production is the basis of morale, and sex tends to fall to the wayside for a few days at least, and stuff like that, until you start to come down the tone scale and then you're like well, and then you're like well, and then you say, well, the body needs this, but it's you that needs this, and so you, you, you drop down the tone scale and then the next day you go back to work and you forget all about it again because now you're giving something that's much more higher tone, that is sublimating sex for something else. You're, you're exchanging one for the other, and this can go all the way up the tone scale to where you're in games and you'd much rather play this other game instead of be the effect of electronic wavelengths. That's basically what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2:I got that, yeah, and I think that was interesting about what you just said too, is that think about it this way. Let's bring it back home to real world application, right, when a couple has sex which, with having a body, that's likely to happen when a couple has sex and they have a child, they've created a child, right child, they've created a child right. Oftentimes, you know, if the couple's together and the whole bit of whatever, oftentimes sex becomes less and less, uh, uh, prominent in the relationship, because now we got this child to feed, we got this, this child, to tend to and rear and take care of, and raise right, and so and I'm not saying I'm not saying it's a good thing necessarily, but what I am saying is is that because something else is higher, there's a higher order of creation that has taken place. This child is now here.
Speaker 2:Sex, the actual impact of the actual act of sex, becomes less and less prioritized because baby's crying, baby gotta make it eat, we gotta take the child to school, we gotta, and we have to then find time. They say, oh, we gotta find time to make love, we gotta find time to do it. You know, you gotta kind of put it in there sometime, right, because it's a natural thing and that's what I'm, that's what I think that you're trying to communicate that when, when you come up higher up the tone scale, when you're operating on a higher wavelength of creation, of creativity, you can supplement sex, and this then becomes a higher thing that we start to do here. You see, right, right or whatever, you're doing your thing, and then, yet, as you grow up these are the phrases I'm going to use as you grow up, as you mature, as you become a bigger being, that that seems to be a little bit trivial.
Speaker 1:It seems to be a little bit immature to go chasing after tail yeah, and, and that's why you see that the honeymoon phase and relationships and stuff like that, as you get, you get to a point where, okay, we've, we've, we've figured this out, we've been there and we've done that. Now let's sublimate to something else, whatever, whatever that, whatever that may be, and you know, that doesn't mean that you can't, that doesn't mean that you can't still have a healthy sex life. I'm just saying that there's more to life than that. Wavelength is what what I'm trying to say, and you and you understand that and you're like, okay, well, there's other games that we can play too, but you know, on, on, you know, whatever occasions, how many nights a week, or whatever date, night, night, you know, I mean, you've got to keep it interesting, and that's why, as couples age together, they try to make it interesting and spice it up and keep it new.
Speaker 2:We travel, we see the world, we experience new things. We have new orgasms of consciousness. We have new conversations and debates. We have other, bigger things. I like to call it intellectual intercourse. We have intellectual intercourse. Ain't that fun, oh sorry.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and and and, and. You know, sometimes it's even better than the sex act itself. You know, in certain circumstances, because you were, you were there with this particular person or beings, or even on a third dynamic, that you all experienced the successes of going someplace and doing something and creating something together and everything like that, which is sublimation and harmonic on a different dynamic. So we're not just talking about the second dynamic dynamic, so we're not just talking about the second dynamic either, because the second dynamic is comprised of two first dynamics that give their first and the first gives their second dynamic something. Their second gives their first dynamic something, as well as their third to their second, their second to their third, their third to their first, their first to their third, which is where you know is exchanged by dynamics. So this, it's a domino effect across all of the dynamics.
Speaker 1:In the long run, it's just that the myopicness or the one-sidedness that you get on this wavelength is where things go wrong, especially in a low-tone society that is constantly making the sex act the center of attention, because that's how you get people to do and buy things that you want. Which leads us back to how do you control somebody? You lie to them. What's the? What's the most important importance is sex, sex everywhere you go and know if you, if you don't have an electronic device and you're not using electricity, the only sex you're going to see is the animals in the woods doing it or in the farmer's field or that type of the thing, and it's far less restimulative when you don't have that around.
Speaker 1:Your attention goes towards other things. When you go to a national park and you look at the scenery, are you thinking about sex? No, you're thinking. You're up the tone scale in aesthetics, going God damn, this is something beautiful. You go to Victoria Falls, for example. Are you thinking about sex? I don't think so. You're thinking about aesthetics. But when you look at your wife, your girlfriend, your husband, your boyfriend, whatever, then you think, well, that's aesthetic. And you go, okay, that's aesthetic. And then you get that pew.
Speaker 2:Yeah, in your mind and the sensation. What I think is really interesting is that when you see beauty just talking about the aesthetic wavelength of beauty anywhere, right, when you see beauty as a being, it creates an expansion in you. It creates a think about looking over a palatial landscape or going to a beautiful park or going to a beautiful waterfall or something. It expands you as a being. But when you see beauty in a meat body, it does the opposite. It fixates, it, contracts it.
Speaker 2:Oh, my God look at that, hey, bro bro, hey man. Look at that, oh my God man. Look at that, bro bro, hey man. Look at all, oh my God man. And you see construction workers dropping tools and whole buildings, come tumbling down because a pretty woman walked down the street. Are you kidding me?
Speaker 1:Right. And that's where it becomes obsessive is when that wavelength grabs you by the face and says look at me.
Speaker 2:Right, the woman in the red dress on the Matrix.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. I was going to say that a minute ago, and so that's the thing is. You have to be aware of that and go. Okay, this isn't the body, this is me, mm-hmm.
Speaker 2:And what I love about. Oh, go ahead. I'm sorry.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, and what I love about. Oh, go ahead, I'm sorry. I was going to say, and you have to keep in mind, a thetan is responsible for their own restimulation, whether it's sex or some other thing that is doing them harm or doing them in Mm-hmm, so in this last big paragraph here.
Speaker 1:You want to read that one when they are most Sure they are most, he says. He goes on to say they are the most used tools. Yeah, they are the most used tools in the campaign against beings and furthering the general goal of those creatures whose sole ambition is destruction. The universe does not happen to be either destructive or chaotic, except as such obsessed creeps make it. Statements it is otherwise are just more false data from the same suspect authorities. It fits their purposes to make, to make seem natural what they make artificially. The universe only seems that way to a being because such loathsome psychotics make it seem so, which is what I was saying about, you know, for advertising as an example.
Speaker 1:They destroyed every great civilization to date and are hard at work on this one. The one thing they can't stand is the light of truth. So despite their objections, one must turn it on them. Only in its glare do their lies wither. It is the potent weapon that they can't fend off. I mean, that's what destroyed the Roman Empire was the fixation on the second dynamic. I mean, you know, nero, especially that's where things really turned.
Speaker 1:But you also have to look at and we'll get into this in the next episode is you have to look at slavery and sex and all of that stuff and how that is a harmonic of this and races and all of that. So all of these things are closely tied together and they're very similar, if not the same aberration he goes on to say. These facts may not be very palatable, but they could clear up some mysteries for you. For whatever there is a mystery and both pain and sex have been these for man there are answers, as both pain and sex could have messed up your life. The above may be some answers you've been looking for, lrh.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm. Yeah, you know, I think it's wonderful and I started this conversation off at the beginning of the podcast by saying I love sex as much as the next guy, right, and I love it from the perspective of I understand why and how to use it for my own creation of an effect. Right To create an effect and to be able to receive an effect. Podcast, as you're having your experiences in life and you will, and it's wonderful that you do just understand who you are in all of this, and that's what Scientology is about, that's what we, that's why we are, as independent Scientologists, trying to offer to you and show you and get to you that there is a way to know thyself and in knowing yourself, you know how to move through these experiences and retain that knowingness of who you are. You don't lose yourself in it, you don't get lost in it. And your eyeballs you know I'm thinking about the little wolf on the cartoon.
Speaker 2:Boing oing oing, oing, oing oing oing your eyeballs popping out know, I'm thinking about the little wolf on the cartoon Boing oing oing, oing, oing, oing oing your eyeballs popping out your head, or whatever. You don't lose yourself in it, and I think that that is what, to me, maintains the beauty of it.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I mean, if you can be a cause over it, be a cause over your own being effect. That's the best way to be and that's very difficult in today's society, but it can be done and you don't want to get socked into the body too much. You also are a spiritual being, living a human body experience, and balancing those things out is the key point in what it is that you're doing, when you're doing it and for what purpose. So for everyone listening to this podcast, this is going to be the end of part one.
Speaker 1:We'll do part two in a day or two and we'll move on to the next segments of this wavelength, which I think is going to be pretty controversial because it's something I've been wanting to say for a couple of years that I've seen in independent Scientology. So for Quentin Stroud and myself, we hope you got a lot out of this. And again, the pain and sex reference is in technical volume. I'm trying to remember which one it is. It's 1980 to 1984. And you can find the reference in there and you can also find it on our website at ao-gporg and the independent college of independent Scientologycom. And we will see you in a couple of days for part two, namaste, and we love you. Bye-bye.
Speaker 1:Peace Thank you, thank you.