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Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE11EP31 - Independent Scientology - Present Time (It's not what you think...)
Time isn't what you think it is. We exist in a continuous flow of "nows" that become the past almost as rapidly as we observe them, leaving most of us navigating life through the haze of old considerations rather than experiencing reality as it truly exists.
In this mind-expanding exploration of present time, we unpack eight distinct technical definitions that reveal why being "here now" is far more profound than most spiritual teachers suggest. Present time isn't merely awareness of your surroundings—it's a state where you become causative across three universes: yours, mine, and our agreed-upon reality.
The revelation comes when we understand that most people aren't in present time at all. They're superimposing past experiences, valences, and reactive mind content onto current perceptions. That argument about taking out the trash? It's rarely about the trash—it's about bringing past problems into your now. When someone says "I'm a realist," they're actually admitting they're at effect, not cause.
We dive deep into how anchor points create space and perception, explaining why true beingness depends on your ability to establish and manage these points without resistance. Through fascinating auditing techniques like double terminaling, we show how fixed conditions can be released, freeing you from past patterns and restoring your authentic self.
Perhaps most striking is our discussion of life continuums—how people unknowingly carry forward identities and behaviors of deceased individuals as "solutions" to survival. This explains why many live someone else's life rather than their own, trapped in a continual state of "becoming" rather than "being."
Want to experience true present time? The Professional TRs course might be your gateway. As one participant noted, "When I first completed TR Zero, my hearing increased and the clarity of the room was incredible." Imagine moving through life with that level of awareness—not as a fleeting state, but as your normal way of being.
Ready to step into your authentic now? Connect with us at collegeofindependentscientology.com and discover how auditing and training can help you create the life you're meant to live—in present time.
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Sorry it took so long. Hi and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is Saturday, september 13th 2025 on planet Earth, or Terra as some know it, and I'm here with Quentin Stroud and Arthur Mudakis. This is season 11, episode 31. This is season 11, episode 31. And today's very interesting topic, almost tongue-in-cheek is present time, and we are going to dissect it and go over it and hopefully illuminate our listeners on what present time really is and why it is not, or that it is presently in this time.
Speaker 2:Boy, oh boy. Well, that cleared everything up. Thanks for that.
Speaker 1:Namaste, and we love you Bye-bye.
Speaker 3:So yeah, present time Because we would think that, well, this is a simple topic. Right as we were preparing for it, we were like, okay, we're going to talk about present time and being in present time, why it's important. But when we started going down this rabbit hole, y'all stick with us, because this is an interesting topic. Okay, when we think about present time, obviously the first thing you think about is like, okay, it's right now, time is now, present time is right now and I'm in present time right now. I know the president, I know my age and you get a fast answer or whatever it is, and you think that that's present time. But keep living. My grandma used to say, baby, just keep living, and you're going to see some more.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, and I'd like to start it out with the, the axiom I can't remember the one that it is, but it's, uh, a dianetic axiom in the dianetic axioms, and lrh says that a ch, a phaeton, chooses to restimulate themselves and reality is a relative as well, and there's three universes yours, mine and the agreed-upon universe and that is where things unravel. As to yours, mine and the agreed-upon universe. So what is present time? Who wants to read the definitions out of the technical dictionary for independent Scientology and Dianetics?
Speaker 3:You want to start at the top.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, we'll start at the top and we'll just go over all of them and then we'll get into this. This, this podcast, is based off of a lecture from LRH called Present Time, given in March, the 26th of March 1953. Mind you, it's 2025 and nothing has changed since then.
Speaker 3:So so let's also start with the fact that there's eight definitions of present time. So let's also start there. So present time, one uh definition the time which is now and which becomes the past almost as rapidly as it is observed. It is a term loosely applied to the environment existing in now as in the preclear came up to present time, meaning the preclear became aware of the existing matter energy, space.
Speaker 2:And time of now, the point on anyone's time track where his physical body, if alive, may be found now definition one that's interesting because, like you can't really define the past while being in the present, and you can't define the present while you're being in the past, because they're so close to each other, they're almost touching, but they're not yeah, and, and we get into that with the definitions right, exactly, go ahead, quinn yeah, I was saying, yeah, it changes.
Speaker 3:Art is right. How do you, how do you define the now? Because you it's already the past, you know, and so it's interesting how being in present time actually is a it is, is. It's something that one has to maintain almost, which I think is really interesting. We'll kind of go into that a little bit more, but you have to be in present time because the moment you observe it, all of a sudden it's become the past, it's gone correct right, I can't stop there, yet, rather than observe it right.
Speaker 1:I can step out the back door here at this airbnb on the indian ocean and I can look at the waves and those waves as they're crashing towards the rocky shore at any given moment. Whatever you want to say, that amount of time is that wave is constantly changing in a state of flux. That is what time does as an example. So those waves are never, ever the same, except for a millisecond.
Speaker 1:Or if I say I saw the back of a humpback whale, oh, it's gone as soon as you say I saw, I saw it and it submerges and it's, it's good, it's in the past, so that's, that's the example we're trying to present, so definitely is in the past, right, all that, all those kinds of sayings, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is an interesting one.
Speaker 1:It is Number two.
Speaker 3:When we say that somebody should be in present time, we mean he should be in communication with his environment. We mean further that he should be in communication with his environment as it exists, not as it existed.
Speaker 2:Or as you believe it should exist.
Speaker 3:And we're going to get into that Exactly as it currently is. And so when, and if we think about it, when most people are in life, how many people are responding to because my boo didn't take out the trash? But is that what we're really arguing about? Are we really arguing because I didn't take the trash out, when I can just take the trash out now? Are we really arguing because I didn't take the trash out when I can just take the trash out now? Why is that an argument? But it's because we're really arguing about a past present time problem, something that happened before, because this has been a pattern or this has happened over and over and over and over again, and you never take out the trash when you say you're going to take out the trash and all that right.
Speaker 1:So who's putting it in your present?
Speaker 3:I'm telling y'all what I. I'm telling y'all what I live, not what I read out of a book, and so so the idea.
Speaker 2:It's interesting in that. Good kick on, kick on, yeah. Yeah, I didn't mean to cut you.
Speaker 3:That was my point. I would just say that that if we're asking a person to be in present time, we're saying let's deal with the environment as it exists now, not what happened 13,000 years ago.
Speaker 2:Which in the second definition, communicating with your environment you're in communication with your environment, which means it's a two-way, constant flow. That's right. It's not what you're communicating to your environment. You know, I hate it here, I don't like this place, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah because they're all past things as well. But then being in communication in your environment is is literally just being wherever you are right and considerations are senior to the physical universe.
Speaker 1:So you're superimposing your considerations and this goes as far as perceptions, because this is where the chart of human ability comes in and you look at what a person is perceiving based off of their tone level, like you remember in the chapter on communication in Dianetics 55, arthur, that you did on Pro TRs, that everybody has their own viewpoint of dimension of what happened, and then they superimpose their considerations over the top of that which is their perception of reality based off of their perception of communication. So it's tiered.
Speaker 2:That's right. That's right of communication. So it's tiered, that's right. That's right. And depending where they're standing at any moment, what their personal circumstances might be, plus their pre-conceived perceptions based off of bias like bank etc. Past experiences, so on, and so on, and so on, like it'd be almost impossible for two people to completely agree. Both through theater, through words, we can agree, but even that's not the truth ultimately either.
Speaker 1:Right, and we'll get into that more when we get into the lecture part of this Number three.
Speaker 3:So present time definition three. So present time definition three Present time is a response to the continuous rhythm of the physical universe, resulting in a here-ness, in now-ness. I love this definition. Yeah, they get this. That being present time, whatever present time as is, is a response to the continuous rhythm of the physical universe. So, understanding that everything is in motion, understand that everything is vibrating and moving, or whatever Everything is is expanding and becoming, whatever you want to call it, that being in present time or present time is a response to the continuous rhythm of the physical universe and that's why, per definition two, there's a constant communication with this environment.
Speaker 3:Per definition one, that you're in the now moment as it is observed, but it's rapidly changing, and so you have to be in a continuous rhythm. But it's rapidly changing, and so you have to be in a continuous rhythm. And a response, responding to the continuous rhythm of the physical universe. Isn't this powerful as a being? Nobody else talks about this stuff, but isn't it powerful that, as a being, you can, you can be so in present time, so in the now of now, that you're in a continuous rhythm with the universe?
Speaker 2:I love that, and what's interesting, though, is that rhythm doesn't work off a calendar or a clock or a watch or a timer or any of those kinds of things, which is really interesting, because it's just constantly running Like it was running, no different now than it was, say, a million years ago. There's literally no difference.
Speaker 1:That's right, number four.
Speaker 3:So, definition number four present time. Definition number four present time. Present time is the ground, the sky, the walls, the objects and people in the immediate environment. In other words, the anatomy of present time is the anatomy of the room or area in which you are at the moment when you view it. That's your present time.
Speaker 1:Okay, five.
Speaker 3:That makes sense. Yeah, okay, so five present time. Five a continuing series of instants I-N-S-T-A-N-T-S instants Instance I-N-S-T-A-N-T-S instance in which, moment to moment, theta goes on changing mest. I love this one too. So it's a continuing series of instance in which, moment to moment, theta goes on changing mest, and so, being in present time, you are actually causative. To be in present time is to be causative. To be in present time is not to be the effect of your past, not to be the effect of what your mama did when you was three, what your daddy did when you was five, what your first girlfriend or your first boyfriend did when you was 13. Listen, being in present time is being in a continuing series of instants in which, moment to moment, theta, you go on changing your mist, your environment around you, and you create that.
Speaker 1:So it's like a one particular image on a old time film one frame and then the next frame, and then the next frame and then the next frame. Real, of those frames, moment by moment. Each one is present time at that moment, recorded on a film or by a digital apparatus known as a camera or video on your cell phone, for example. Each one has a frame and at that point in time was present time Now.
Speaker 1:And it's interesting to also bring into view, we talked about the hypnosis drill, if you guys remember that, where you have a person, you ask them what do you see? And when you say, okay, so what do you see? Well, he looks like he's angry. And when you say, okay, so what do you see? Well, he looks like he's angry. No, no, that's it. What do you see? Okay, so you're taking your bias, you're taking what the person is superimposing over the top of it and what is going on in present time. Well, I see he has a nose, he has ears, he has hair, he has a red shirt on shirt, on that type of thing. That would be present time without this overlay of the considerations of what present time is. So that leads us back to what we were at, number six number six.
Speaker 3:It says so present time. Number six is an ever extending moment and a person who is free on his time track is generally in present time, moving forward through the consecutive moments of time.
Speaker 2:That's present time that's a good one yeah, an ever-extending moment because the previous one talks about constant instance and then this one's talking about consecutive instance, so it's expanding on the previous definition as well. Yeah, because it's showing that those instances only move in one direction. It doesn't move in multiple directions.
Speaker 3:And that these extending moments you can feel and you can experience these moments as long as you are in present time. If you think about it, right. So, if you look at love, or if you look at the feeling of havingness or prosperity, right, if you look at it from that level, a person who is in present time can constantly experience that, because it's a what does it say? An ever extending moment, right, right. And so if I'm able to be in present time and I'm with someone I love in present time, I'm able to be in an ever extending moment of love. Right, if I'm, if I'm operating with prosperity and abundance and feelings of, of opulence and success, and I'm able to be in present time, I'm able to have that be an ever extending moment of who I'm being, as this person, a person who is free on his time track, is generally in present time, moving forward through the consecutive moments of time, and I'm able to enjoy that and experience that as an ever extending moment.
Speaker 1:Right, and that comes back to that. That hypnosis drill again is is if you're overlaying considerations in that drill and you're saying, well, what do you see? Well, he looks angry. Okay, what are you comparing that to? You're? You're not. You're not in present time. You're going back to something else and saying, oh well, he looks angry. No, no, no, no Present time. What do you see right now? These are the things that you see, and that's the whole point of the drill is to get the auditor to view in present time without bias of their own data I don't want to put this their own data set of past comparisons because they have to go away from present time to then overlay it on present time. Oh, he looks angry, okay, well, that's based off of something you saw before with that person or somebody else and you thought, okay, he looks angry, no, no, what is that physicalness in? Matter energy, space and time right now, without any predisposition? Matter energy, space and time right now, without any predisposition.
Speaker 3:We do this with everything everything that we do and that brings us to seven, number seven, yep. So present time definition seven is an arbitrary time agreed upon and is the same across a whole universe.
Speaker 1:It is the point of coincidence of three universes and those three universes, yours, mine, in the agreed, upon universe yes, exactly yours.
Speaker 3:Mine agree with so. So, if, if is in present time, one is in present time across the universes, the three universes yours, mine and the agreed upon. I'm operating in present time, in that moment, which means, per some of the earlier definitions, you have the ability to be causative across the three universes. You have the ability to create change of the missed universe across the three universes. You have the ability I want you to see how powerful it is that you are in present time as a being, because it's the point of coincidence of three universes, right, and it's the same across the whole universe, a whole universe. And so all of this is going to be connected and you can then be effective Hear my words. You can be effective across the three universes and making change happen.
Speaker 1:And this is just from the definition in the technical dictionary right isn't that powerful, very, very. And that brings us to eight so present time.
Speaker 3:Definition eight it says people go out of present time because they can't have the mest of present time. That's it. Present time is only the referral point that exists. In its absence, all becomes bank. This is huge. Present time is only the referral point that exists. In its absence, all becomes bank, it all becomes jumbled, it all becomes like aberrated right, because when a person's not in present time, that they have no reference point, they have nothing to to to anchor them in to this moment right, and that goes back again to anchor the man to this moment, right.
Speaker 1:And that goes back again to the hypnosis drill. If a person is saying, well, he looks angry, okay, so you're going away from the reference point of present time and saying, well, that looks like this, okay, so now that's bank. So you have to separate yourself out from that database that you're using these past pictures, 52 perceptions, and just look at what is going on in present time. There is a body. It has nose, it has a face, it has arms, it has legs, it has a torso, it's breathing, it's standing there. That's present time, without any influence from the database known as the reactive mind Period. So that brings us to the present time.
Speaker 1:Lecture from LRH, again from March 26, 1953. And this is from what is now known as the Factors Lectures. The church renamed them and it actually had a different name. It was done in London, england, in 1953. And in this lecture LRH explores the concept of present time in relation to and this is what we've been talking about communication, almost. And all of these definitions is communication. That is, the inflow and the outflow, reception, duplication, understanding with intention, attention, all of that. That's communication. But it has to do ultimately and we talk about this time and time and time again, beingness for that particular Satan. So communication is lines rather than shared presence, he says the distinction is crucial in auditing, where pre-clares often manifest stuck energy and strange perceptions because of a blocked or collapsed communication line. And this is what we rehabilitate in auditing. Yes, present time, therefore, is not just a temporal condition, temporal meaning time, but a state of alignment in communication and beingness. Let's talk about that for a minute and unpack that. What does beingness have to do with present time?
Speaker 3:Well, you can't observe present time or experience present time without being there, being you, being self right is not able to be self because of valences, because of winning valences as something you know, somebody did to you a long time ago or you know, whatever kind of stuff that's on you. If you're not able to be there, you can't be in present time. And so, and per definition, number eight, in the absence of, in its absence, all becomes bank, and so you're actually constantly living in this restimulative kind of experience or environment because everything is going to be hitting you because you're not being you. You're being not you.
Speaker 1:Right, not you right, arthur? I'm sure you could have some in input into this. Well, both of you uh doing the uh trs, the training regimens, training routines on the professional trs course and the. The biggie in all of the drills is being there and being comfortable being there and being comfortable which is a lot harder than it sounds.
Speaker 2:A lot harder than it sounds, especially when, um, when you're doing being there and comfortable, like when you're actually doing it, um, and actually intending that for the to be the outcome, there's a lot of things that occur until you reach that outcome. A lot of things because you have so many perceptions on what being there actually is. Until you're actually there, then all those perceptions fall away, which you know you're altering. Where you are with perceptions, innocently, like it's not intentional, like it's not like you choose to do it that way. It's just the way our bodies work, um, hence the idea of reaching end phenomena with doing these training routines is to reach an end phenomena which can be described through words, but, but it's much better felt and it's much better known once you get there, because even the words create a perception of what the end phenomena should be as well, which makes it really hard, because sometimes to know what the end phenomena is, instead of being it, you're trying to become it.
Speaker 1:That's a great way to put it. Yeah's, that's a great way to put it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great way to yeah. Um, it's yeah, like, just because I know math doesn't make me an accountant right right so being be, be becoming this, and lrh talks about this a lot.
Speaker 1:becomingness and beingness are two different things, so if one is in present time, is one becoming or is one being?
Speaker 3:One is being and it's a continuous condition. It's a continuous state of being Because, per the definition of present time, it's an ever-extending moment. It's a continuous or consecutive moments, it's ongoing, it's the continuous rhythm of the physical universe, all of these things happening in present time. And so when you rehabilitate through auditing, when you rehabilitate the ability to be in present time, it's multidimensional. I mean there's eight definitions on how one can be recognized or recognize themselves in present time, and I think that's beautiful because when you rehabilitate that ability to be in present time, it changes a lot about you and that goes to definition five.
Speaker 1:Uh, to reprise a continuing series of instance in which, moment to moment, theta goes on changing messed. You are not your body, you are going on changing messed, and that that is what Arthur is talking about. And feel free to jump in, arthur, from becomingness to beingness, that's kind of what you were describing a minute ago, correct?
Speaker 2:In a way, yeah, and the funny thing is they kind of both work unanimously and it's almost like they switch between each other so fast you can't distinguish which one's happening right now because, as you're becoming, you know of course it's going to change your now, but the becoming had to happen in order for now to exist and so they, they switch while you're. While you're becoming, you know there's so much past and now just happening at any one given moment, like in my mind, the images it's so hard to to express what I feel in my mind and what I feel in my body, because we're trying to use words to understand something that maybe our brains cannot completely compute. 100 we might have an understanding of, but then, once it hits you so hard and you know as a being, yeah, you know, and like even just going through those definitions, like the articulation to express those definitions using the english language is pretty profound, like every word had to be placed in such a precise manner so it could be understood right and it can fully communicate the idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right and that's that's only like a piece of it. You know what I mean it is that's just opening your mind to this concept. It's not being the concept, it's just opening your mind to it that, hey, it's possible, I can be anywhere anytime right.
Speaker 1:So in reading the definitions, while you read the definitions, you're at becomingness of understanding present time. Yeah, basically right, so lrh emphasizes in this present time lecture Before you go for it.
Speaker 3:I want to say this too, and I think that this is also why it's so important to clear definitions before you go in session, right? Because obviously, you know sitting down in the auditing chair, you know doing remote auditing and having Jonathan audit, you and you know, and you're kind of going in and then you were like, oh, I just came up to present time and you think that for that moment it's like I'm here, you know, I'm here now, in present time, and that is the extent of it. It, but coming up the present, coming up the present time, that's salvific, that can like, that could, that could free you from so much baggage and so much stuff that you've been dragging with you for so long. And then you come up to present time and you're like oh.
Speaker 2:And then what happens? Your whole world changes. The world doesn't change, but the way you observe the world changes. All of a sudden, you're no longer victim. You're standing in this bizarre place. Wholeheartedly, I thought it, in this bizarre place, wholeheartedly, I thought it was this, but it's this Regardless of where you are.
Speaker 1:Right, right, and that's what a cognition, or epiphany or realization is is. You went into session and you were like, well, the world is this way. And then you did the auditing command that was given you in that session is appropriate for where you're at, based off of your programming and your interviews and everything like that that you're doing, the processes that you're doing that are appropriate for you where you are at, and you do this process and at the end of it you have a cognition, a realization. At the end of it, you have a cognition, a realization, and at that point you have a shift, a temporal shift of oh, I looked at it this way, but this way now is different than the way that I looked at it, and I'm now in present time for me, based off of changing my mind on something that I thought was the real present time, if that makes sense, that's what you're you're describing.
Speaker 2:And the funny thing is, once you have that realization, it never enters your mind again. And that is as is this, that's right. And it's, and it's funny because there's so many ways people present present time, like say, in the spiritual communities, you know, you just need to ground yourself, you just need to ground yourself. And it's like you know which is another form of beings becoming present.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's right or they give it to you from a psychobabble perspective, they give it to you in a way that puts you at total effect. You just need to face reality. You just need to face reality or I'm a realist. You know, people say I'm a realist and it's like no, boo you at total effect, because if you were really in present time, you, you would be theta, would go on changing mess. You will be causative. I'm a realist? No, you had effect.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:And that goes back. You wouldn't need to have an opinion either, which is more interesting because the moment you have an opinion, well, what's behind that?
Speaker 1:Are you in present time?
Speaker 2:If you have an opinion, yeah, no no you're not, because that's the byproduct of something that upset you yesterday, last week, when you were a kid at school.
Speaker 1:Right, right, you're using the corrupted database of the reactive mind to superimpose over present the real, the true present time and this is where lrh gets into that space is not an inherent reality, but a viewpoint created by anchor points, and we need to define what an anchor point is. Can you pull that up real quick, quentin?
Speaker 3:Yes, hold on a second Anchor point. So an anchor point, so we don't have an MU here.
Speaker 1:Jeopardy music plays in the background.
Speaker 3:Let's see here, I'm trying to get the tech dictionary definition. I can just put them on Finn, can't I? Yeah?
Speaker 2:We'll put them on, finn huh. It's an interesting concept, this one very interesting, and it has a lot to say about auditing as well, doesn't it? Because you know, as you remove those past viewpoints, it allows you to be more present I, I got it.
Speaker 1:An anchor point is an anchor point is any point if phaeton uses to create or define the boundaries of space by putting out four anchor points, for example, a being can define a space or a quote-unquote room to operate it, its function. They give the being a sense of location, distance and dimension. Without, without anchor points, there's no space, and without space wait for it there's no beingness. Now, what does this have? Beingness and communication have to do with each other. Communication is seen as movement or flow between anchor points, which is what we're defining. If anchor points collapse or are too fixed, communication breaks down, leaving the person stuck or unable to perceive. Clearly, that is exactly what we're driving at, and auditing processes involve having the preclear mock up anchor points throw them out, bring them in, move them around to rehabilitate their ability to make and control space.
Speaker 1:Lras describe them as fundamental to perception. If a thetan can't put out anchor points, they can't define or perceive space. They feel trapped, collapsed in or quote unquote out of present time. So that brings us back to what we were talking about as far as these anchor points and how they play within this. So again, lrh states that space is not an inherent reality, but a viewpoint created by anchor points. What anchor points are you creating instead of the true anchor points? We change these with auditing For a thetan. Space is a matter of perception. Let me say that again. Space is a matter of perception. It exists only when points are placed and recognized. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Now the body, the genetic entities in the body, the beings that are running your heart, your digestive system. All of this, the genetic entities and he talks about this in history of man, and they're very well defined in that book these ge's genetic entities complicate this by fixing space and anchoring the individual into matter, energy, space and time. So the body's going. You are part of the physical universe, you are part of the physical universe. Ongoing saying you are a meat puppet. You are a meat puppet. Now you run that into. The thetan's ability to operate freely always depends on handling these anchor points without resistance. So what auditing does is it seeks to rehabilitate your ability to establish and manage these anchor points, thus freeing your perception and restoring your present time beingness.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:And so, like with the TRs, what are you doing? You are basically trying to get the person into present time and being there and being comfortable, because if you can do that, you can perceive properly.
Speaker 2:go ahead, arthur it's interesting like a bit of semantics as well, and how, um this really relates to present time semantics. From something as simple as poor eye vision, for example, something's occurred and it's affected your eyesight to such a degree that it's made it poor, and because, if your, if your body is completely present, all senses will perform at their optimum, nothing will be left out. And what I find interesting just as the way we are as humans and just the way we do things, you know, instead of working on being here, being now, being so present to really experience the full potential of our bodies, we found ways to mechanically fix spiritual aberrations eyeglasses, contact lenses surgery, elastic surgeries, all that kind of stuff Because in moments of complete clarity and complete presentness, everything just illuminates in such a way, and I've had moments of that. However, being that constantly is the trick.
Speaker 1:I'll be so present.
Speaker 2:All of a sudden, everything I can physically see clears right up. All my faculties just illuminate in such a profound way. But then the moment I realize that's happening, boom, they disappear. It just normalizes again to what my apparent normal might be.
Speaker 1:Right, because you've gone from becoming this to being this right, yes, okay, yes now.
Speaker 2:I remember when I first did my tr zero be there. The end phenomena was quite incredible. I wasn't tired, I wasn't agitated, my hearing just increased. And then when I did CR zero confront eyes open the clarity of the room was just incredible, Absolutely incredible. And that's in a in a controlled environment, Right.
Speaker 2:Right, getting up out of that chair and then, walking into my future, past, perceived present time on the street all of a sudden those aberrations come back. But I had a taste of it. I know it's possible, Right, and that's what's interesting about it it is possible and it is doable.
Speaker 1:Right, and that's why I brought up at the beginning of the podcast the axiom where ella reach mentions that a thetan chooses to become aberrated. So what are you choosing? Let me put a different way. If you're choosing to become aberrated, what's happening? What's happening to your beingness?
Speaker 3:it becomes less you.
Speaker 1:You become less yourself right and you're back down at becoming this or worse right or confusion.
Speaker 2:Well, there's a few things that have gone on recently, in the last few days, that I find really appalling. Um, and it's just all over my instagram and observing observing it, you know, from from that poor man that got shot to that poor girl that got stabbed on the train like observing that has really actually affected me and it's taken me out of present time, you know and it's, and it's interesting because these are things that I assume have actually occurred. I actually don't know if they actually have Right.
Speaker 1:Confirm or deny. You can't confirm or deny. It's being put in front of you.
Speaker 2:It's now implanted in my mind. That's right. I've observed it with my eyes. My brain has recorded this information. I can't unrecord it and I can't delete it. The body only works in one way it just receives constantly information. You can't create an amnesia, and I kind of wish I could, because if I could amnesia my past man, I'd be in present time all the time.
Speaker 3:Everything's new, just like a newborn child yeah, and I think that that's what a lot of people uh seek to do when they do go through hypnosis. Uh, they try to, they try to amnesia their past, or you know, I want to use hypnosis. I had a client who told me this recently I want to use hypnosis to help me stop smoking, or I want to use hypnosis to help me lose weight, or whatever, whatever Right, and what they're trying to do is find that command that you know is causing them to smoke or to binge eat, or whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and so what a person tries to do with hypnosis is try to amnesia their past. Hypnosis is try to amnesia their past. What we do with auditing, which is different from hypnosis, what we do with auditing as independent Scientologists is we help you, get to get you to see so clearly that thing that is keeping you stuck in this condition, that it as is and it vanishes and it no longer has an effect with you right right.
Speaker 3:And so what auditing does is auditing, as opposed to making it a more hidden command or a more hidden aberration, which is what hypnosis tries to do hide it even deeper. What we do is we get it to vanish, because you take such a thorough, impressive look at it and then, after looking at it so clearly, you come up to present time and you realize wait a minute, I don't have to live based on that thought anymore, I don't have to be subject to that posture anymore and I could be a Thetan, changing mess continuously in order to have a different experience. And that's why auditing is so powerful, because you're not suppressing anything anymore, you're clearing it out.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it could be said, and what I?
Speaker 2:find interesting. Go ahead, arthur. Sorry, I'm just going to just chuck this in quickly. Like, even when you're auditing, what are you doing? You're time traveling to a past perception and then, while you're getting the auditing done, you're there in present time, aren't you? And then once you've, once you've really created the situation to be what it is present in your past, all of a sudden you're present now because that past anchor point, if you will, that past, that past misunderstood is just running on your current time track, keeping you constantly aberrated. But the moment you go back there and then you re-experience it in present time, in the past, now you're present now right, right.
Speaker 1:And what I was going to say was is is hypnosis, and we talked about scientology, axiom 11, a lot in in podcasts. Hypnosis is not isness. That's from axiom 11.
Speaker 2:Auditing is as isness as is yep so that's that's funny, even, um, even with hypnosis I might have said this before, but hypnosis is the point of of change. So hypnosis is not the session itself, the hypnosis. You actually become hypnotized at moments, um, so like, let's say, for smoking for example, um, the hypnosis occurs once the thought wants to come forward. That's when you actually become hypnotized. The session is not the hypnotism itself. The session is a process to reinstall, to install hypnotism into your mind at certain moments. So it's not actually resolving the underlying condition, it's literally taking that condition and then putting you into moments of hypnosis, hypnotism. It's not the process itself, that's hypnosis, it's what's installed that creates hypnotism, yeah.
Speaker 2:So that underlying issue is always there, but now it's been hypnotized to make you think something different. So it's kind of like um it's, it's almost like a re-stimulator, but in a different way, you know. So people might recognize. You know, walking past an alcohol shop, um triggers their response to want to drink alcohol. But now the hypnosis, when they walk past the alcohol shop will say no, I don't need a drink. That is the hypnosis right there. It's not the session, it's not the person instilling the hypnosis. The hypnosis works on after the session, way after the session right, you're putting in an alter isness on a nod, isn't this yeah?
Speaker 3:yeah, yeah and that's what it's doing.
Speaker 2:It's installing an alter isness.
Speaker 3:That's exactly what it's doing, right to try to change or to try to get you to change your behavior, and and that's why, as independent Scientologists, we don't necessarily condone hypnosis, because it all is. All it's doing is it's installing an implant or it's installing an alter is-ness, which is another change of behavior versus restoring.
Speaker 1:Beingness.
Speaker 3:As opposed to installing something. We seek to restore, right, right as opposed to install. And so we're not trying to install commands or whatever. We're restoring you to your own beingness and who you are, as a self-determined causative being, and keeping you uh, ideally keeping you in present time so that you can live and move and have experiences from that place, not from the stuff from your past.
Speaker 1:And to close out and refrain again, auditing seeks to rehabilitate the ability to establish and manage these anchor points that the thetan has created, not the body. The body has its own thing going on, but the thetan has created with these things on the backtrack that are part of their 54 perception image. You name it database and look at these and change their consideration about something to the point to where they're freeing up their own bias, thus freeing perception and restoring presence. Now, to close this podcast out, we're gonna add in one more thing here. The key challenge for auditors that we encounter is the influence of life continuums and we've gone into this in past podcasts where they're pretty clear, unknowingly carry forward identities, relationships and even their conditions of deceased individuals. I'm going to be like daddy. That's how I have to be. That's my solution to a problem.
Speaker 1:It's the valence of daddy, and LRA talks about this. He says the pre-clinics may find themselves literally buried with the past, which we were just talking about. They're perceiving hidden influences such as mom, dad, brother, sister, aunt, uncle, grandma, grandpa, whatever that thing that gets the most attention, that allows them, by their own consideration, to be the most survival track to take. And that is what they're doing, carrying it forward into present time. Now that's not really present time, because if they were really in present time they would be being themselves. Instead they're being somebody else.
Speaker 1:And you can't audit a person when they're out of valence because you're auditing daddy daddy instead of auditing the being themselves. So it's very important to handle that particular thing that's going on in present time. So once you handle the valence on this life continuum of them being somebody else or even a suppressor when it comes to suppressives and being a potential trouble source Doesn't matter. It can still be that person because it's the only way to survive. Now you've recovered the beingness of the person and it relieves their case. So that, ultimately, is what has to happen first Out of valence. We need to get that straightened out first so that the auditing can continue on. So an auditor's task is to bring the Phaeton back to present time by a restoration of their beingness. Make sense.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1:That's to our listeners more so than our panel. Now LRH gets into this and the solution in 1953 was to mock up beingness, where pre-cliers are directed basically to assume various roles or identities or forms, ranging from animals to inanimate objects, and in so doing they're rediscovering their flexibility in beingness, which raises their communication level because of anchor points. So what you can do is basically it's a method of sidestepping heavy reliance on analyzing past incidents. Remember we talked about the database a little while ago that you got and you're rehabilitating you the preclear's capacity to be and to perceive directly in present time by being you. This raises them up the tone scale, and the tone scale is just levels of ARC affinity, reality, communication and understanding. So once you unravel these collapsed communication points that trap you and bring you up from apathy, while restoring your beingness and getting you into more arc in your environment, therefore, to that degree you are much more in present time and you can go up the grade chart to ot now he has ways yeah, he has ways to do this and everything.
Speaker 1:One of them is called double-terminally, and I want to define that real quick, just as an example to alliterate on what this is. And it's a technique where the auditor, you have the PC, create two identical mock-ups mental image pictures of them facing each other, two identical mock-ups, mental image pictures of them facing each other, and then another pair next to it of those same mock-ups. These are two sets that you have placed opposite one another. So instead of a single pair of terminals, one image facing another, you would have two pairs of terminals facing each other while you're doing this in session, the interaction of which these duplicate pairs is said to create a balanced energy charge. So I'll give you an example of this In practice.
Speaker 1:As an auditor, I might say mock up Aunt Jenny here facing Aunt Jenny there. Okay, good, now duplicate that pair opposite another pair of Aunt Jennys facing themselves. Now the preclear holds this until the energy begins to release. You can actually do this. This is an auditing process and that's how you get the energy off of this particular terminal. By discharging the stuck energy on the communication lines. You're relieving the fixed condition or identity by duplicating them until they lose charge, because when you duplicate something over another thing, you as is it so do you have to have?
Speaker 3:do you have to have aunt jenny saying something to aunt jenny or you just having the print, the mental image picture there?
Speaker 1:you can do one or both. What would aunt? Jenny what might aunt jenny say right, right, see how, how profound that is.
Speaker 2:While you were explaining it. I had images of people talking to themselves it's unavoidable.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I can see my mama right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's unavoidable so what this does think of a purple elephant right.
Speaker 1:What it does is it restores the being into present time by breaking up the persistence of these old patterns or life continuance of somebody that was pro-survival that you said well, if I act like mama or daddy, then I will get attention, which will aid my survival. So the person carries on the identity or behavior of another, and this is how you release. It is through double terminally genius, absolute genius, and this isn't something. You could do this with clay demos if you wanted to, too, on your own, and you could. You could do this with clay demos if you wanted to, too, on your own, and you could. You could mark these things up and clay demos on a table and and it would change your life. Change your life and put you so in present time. It's absolutely ludicrous.
Speaker 3:You, because you don't know what you don't know, because you're not in present time and does, does it have to be with like two people that you've experienced in the past or whatever like so. Could I put a mental image picture of, let's say, if I had I wanted to buy a house. I'm just throwing this out, but I had this, this thing that's stopping me, this fear of you know, I don't want to. What if something break down or gotta get a mortgage or got to you know, whatever people be, mental minutia, and could I mock up two terminals of mortgages?
Speaker 1:You could. You could, you could, because it's, it's, it is an, it is an anchor point.
Speaker 3:Wow.
Speaker 1:What is the terminal on a battery? It's, there's. There's two's, two anchor points, positive and a negative. This is how this is how the physical universe works. This is how a thetan interacts with the physical universe. The thetan is creating the terminals and it's very slight and it shows up on the meter. But the thetan is holding those there. So you get them to mock them up twice two, two, two, two, so you could put mortgages right in front of each other and two mortgages right in front of each other. And what would? These mortgages flow back and forth and when you start doing that, you relieve the fixed condition or identity by duplicating them until they lose charge.
Speaker 1:You can do it with anything that's an angle pointer or terminal. Yeah, you can do it with anything that's an angle right now. Yeah, I mean it's. You just look at it and you go this is what's holding a person out of present time. It's always an lrh says it's audit. Terminals, terminals, terminals, terminals, terminals. Those are the things that are being holding a person out of present time. Solutions to a valences that one has gone into agreement with that are safe, that are survival. But it isn't safe in survival, it's to the degree that it gets attention and you're not being yourself. How do you return a person to present time? This is one way, a powerful way, that one can do this, based off of what's in that database, that corrupt database, in the time track. And the thing is is the only reason it sticks is because you agree with it and you hold yourself there. That's what keeps you up I love this.
Speaker 3:So what course on the college of independent Scientology? Would I be learning about what we need to learn about this, or or what like. What auditing level does this?
Speaker 1:well, you want to apply this all lower, all lower bridge auditing, the. The scientology grades, including newer dianetics, are made up of this particular concept, because all it is, all it is there is to put you in present time, that's, that's an auditing. Now arthur can answer that question. What course arthur would help relieve this?
Speaker 2:do I have to answer this question?
Speaker 1:it's, it's really simple definitely the proteas.
Speaker 2:Um, because it's all about communication and like and it's and it's more than just communicating, because, like, even doing the TRs at pro TR level, as opposed to just doing running through the TRs to give you a taste in the communication course, like this is I see I see examples of this everywhere in people that really know who they are, Despite your opinions of people in position of power, there's a reason they're able to do that because they know who they are. They're so in communication with their environment. They can just make it whatever they want.
Speaker 2:You know people that create something from nothing, apparently, right, you know, they're so in communication. They can create just by hey, I'm going to do this today. And they're so in communication with their environment. They do Mm-hmm. Right, like it's nothing, and then the rest of us observe it and just think, oh, there's got to be something behind that. They're selling drugs, they're doing this, they're doing that.
Speaker 1:Right, you know, they're doing some kind of crookedness in order to achieve, which is not quite true exactly, and and that that defines why you see a planet in the state that this planet is in in present time is because of all of the individuals that are not in present time and are doing a calculation where 2 plus 2 equals 6 instead of 2 plus 2 equals 4. Six instead of two plus two equals four, and the result is the madness that we see on a day-to-day basis ever spiraling out of control. Because they're not in present time, because if they were, we wouldn't see the things happening and people doing the things that they're doing if they were in present time.
Speaker 3:Wow, 100%. I'm getting so many cognitions right now and so many things are starting to make sense. You know I said it in a podcast before that. You know I came up, you know, biblically trained and I'm a licensed ordained minister and a whole bit or whatever, and you would hear of these things in other modalities and spiritualities, but it's like it was just a nebulous concept. It was like. You know, there's a scripture that says that and I should put it into all mourning, no, no mourning, no outcry nor pain will be anymore. The former things have passed away. For behold, I am making all things new and and you hear that and it sounds good, oh behold that sounds great yeah, hallelujah, praise the lord.
Speaker 3:But when you really start to think about it, it's like come up to present time that's, that's what it is again.
Speaker 2:It's the difference. It's the difference between being it versus regurgitating it yeah, it's like.
Speaker 3:it's like come up to present time and behold all things become new, for the morning, and the outcry and the pain are the former things, the, the, the things of the past, and you can now be in present time and you can experience that peace that surpasses all understanding, as it said in scripture. And I think that that's this is why I said earlier that it started to make sense to me when I really started to study Scientology. It started to make sense to me what I was trying to grasp, you know, from a from a spiritual perspective, before, and now it's like yeah, that's what I want, I want to be, I want to be at present time.
Speaker 1:Right, and that requires being there and being comfortable, just in that little statement just in that little statement being there, not becoming there.
Speaker 3:Being there, yeah, and if you can force it or make it happen.
Speaker 2:Oh no, right and it's funny. Your initial response is to force it.
Speaker 1:It's unavoidable where is that on the cdei scale that we've talked about enforced curious desire? Enforced, inhibited, no and refused. And above, curious is understand and no k-n-o-w, and no is beingness k-n-o-w and it's.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because we're taught to force our future as opposed to create it. That's right, which shouldn't require such great force. Right, it should be as simple as I'm going to do this Right, and then allowing all the ingredients to fall in place.
Speaker 1:Right. So when a thetan chooses to become restimulated voluntarily, then they are creating something other than present time. Therefore, they are not being, they are becoming something other than present time.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So, in closing, auditing and training, particularly the Pro TRs course, both have their benefits 50% training, 50% processing, 50% processing, 50% training. We're here for you and we beseech you to ask more questions on FIN, our AI, on ao-gporg and collegeofindependentscientologycom. You can have a conversation with the AI. Get in touch with us, send us an email, give us a call and we'll get you in session and get you on course and get you to present time. That's the whole purpose of this is to know in present time and being Go ahead, Arthur.
Speaker 2:Quick question on the Proteas course. If somebody wants to do that, is there any prerequisite to do that course, or can anybody just pretty much just jump into it?
Speaker 1:Well, the lesser prerequisite would be the basic study course or the basic study manual which we have on the college for free, so you know how to study and clear your words and all of that stuff, and we check you out on it. Or you could do the student hat, which is the professional students course, and that's. There isn't any any better course to learn how to study properly and all the things that go into it. Either one of those are prerequisites. One is free, one is a professional course and has a fee for it. But they're both on the college and you can do them at your own leisure and you get checked out on everything you do clay demos. On student hat, you learn how to do clay demos so that you can then do them on ProTRs and that's that. So the prerequisite can be free, it can be professional fee either way, and then you can get under pro trs I highly recommend it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah I think it's.
Speaker 1:I think it's the the best course in scientology from auditor training standpoint, outside of the data evaluators course. But you need pro trs to get the most out of the data evaluators course. In my humble opinion.
Speaker 3:This is probably, in my opinion, the best podcast ever. Like this is. This is probably like everybody needs to hear this podcast.
Speaker 1:I don't know what else to say, and one of the reasons that I chose this is because we are being pushed so much, so hard, from so many different terminals in our phone apps, on YouTube, on the nightly news. All of this stuff is there to re-stimulate you and pull you out of being there and communicating comfortably. That's the only purpose it serves. Don't fall for it. And this is how you can stabilize that with the things that we've mentioned in this podcast. It is absolutely imperative that you stay in present time and you choose not to restimulate yourself. That's it. It so what you watch, what you listen to, what you you you choose to believe is up to you, but the sources of the information, the reliable sources, are what you need to count on, and the most reliable source is your own knowingness. So so for Quentin and Arthur.
Speaker 2:Because he knows all.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's right. You know all. We're just reminding you that you do through auditing and training. That's the honest-to-God truth. So, for Arthur and Quentin, we hope you've enjoyed this podcast. We'll see you tomorrow for the third installment this week. Namaste, and we love you. Bye third installment this week, namaste, and we love you.
Speaker 2:Bye-bye, peace Bye-bye, thank you, thank you. Thanks for watching.