SE12EP1 - Q and A on Auditing and Training with AOGP

Ready to explore a version of Scientology that’s standard, humane, and designed for real life? We sit down with the founder of AOGP, Jonathan Burke, to unpack how Independent delivery keeps LRH’s tech intact while removing pressure, travel, and confusion. If you’ve wondered what “kinder Scientology” looks like—or how auditing can work from the comfort of your own home—this conversation lays it out step by step.

We start with the big picture: what AOGP stands for, who seeks it out, and how remote auditing via a Theta Meter over Zoom makes consistency possible anywhere in the world. Jonathan explains the first steps—original OCA and IQ tests, metered interviews, and personalized programs—then shows how early life repair clears attention so wins arrive quickly. He’s direct about momentum too: with steady intensives, going from the bottom to Clear can take months instead of years, even with work and family in the mix.

Training gets equal spotlight. Rather than treating study as optional, AOGP pairs auditing with gradient courses, rigorous word clearing, and an AI-enabled course room that surfaces exact references fast. The result is real comprehension, not overwhelm. We talk Pro TRs, communication as a life skill, and why understanding the mechanics of mind and auditing deepens every session’s result. From there, Jonathan maps the bridge—what Clear means, what OT levels unlock, and why independent delivery restores original materials that many can’t find in the corporate church.

We close with brass tacks: pricing that mirrors early-1970s rates, package specials, and a firm commitment to integrity and privacy under the Auditor’s Code. If you’re ex-church, curious, or brand new, the path is simple: sample the free courses, listen to targeted podcast episodes, and book a call to map your next step. Subscribe, share with someone who needs clarity, and leave a review to help others find a practical route to real spiritual gains.

Chapters

• 0:00 Why AOGP Exists And How It Differs
• 3:20 Who Comes To AOGP And Why
• 6:00 What Auditing Is And How It Works Online
• 9:10 Starting Auditing: Tests, Interviews, Setup
• 12:15 Early Wins And Life Repair
• 16:00 Time To Clear And Scheduling Intensity
• 19:30 Getting Begun: Free Courses And Book One
• 22:00 Clear And OT Levels Explained
• 25:20 Why Training Matters As Much As Auditing
• 31:40 AI, Course Design, And Remote Study
• 38:10 Training Packages And Auditor Paths
• 44:30 Pricing, Packages, And Payment Approach
• 48:30 Realistic Time Commitments And Momentum
• 54:00 Pro TRs In Life: Communication Gains
• 1:05:20 Ensuring Standard Tech And Integrity
• 1:11:30 Privacy, Ethics, And Trust
• 1:16:20 How To Get Started And Reach Us
• 1:45:45 Closing Thanks And Farewell

Transcript

SPEAKER_03: 0:03

Okay, this is another from AMGP, um Independent Scientology, and today we're going to do something a little different. Today we're going to interview John, the creator and founder of AMGP. And we get a lot of questions in the organization around what AMGP is and what it does. So today's mission is to go through and I'm going to be asking John a lot of questions about AMAGP, especially for people that have no idea about independent Sumentology. And for those who do know what Summitology is but don't want to work with the church, they've lost interest, and perhaps this may reignate some interest there as well. And we'll also discuss what we offer and what goes on in the college as well. So we'll be talking a lot about the college as well that we have going as well for everyone to continue their Sumentology, independent Sumentology. So hello, Jim.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03

How are you, Arthur? Nice to be here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13

Let's get straight into it. So first question: What is AOGP and how is it different from the corporate church?

SPEAKER_01: 1:22

What uh AOGP stands for is the advanced org of the Great Plains. Uh back when I started this um independent Scientology organization back in 2011, um, I lived in the um Midwest. And so I thought a great name for AOGP, and it's one of the big questions people say, what is AOGP? Well, it's the advanced org of the Great Plains, and when it started, it was in the Great Plains of the United States. In uh, well, at the time it was actually in uh Minnesota and also Missouri. Um, the the differentiation and in what we do is we are an advanced organization. We deliver uh by LRH's definition, L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of uh Scientology and Dianetics, and we are independent Scientologists and Dianeticists. Uh, and advanced org delivers all of the training and processing all the way up the bridge, with the exception of a few particular auditing actions. We are an advanced org. We deliver everything from the bottom to the top of the gradation chart or bridge, which delineates the auditing and training actions that an independent Scientologist can do. And our mission is to deliver Scientology and Dianetics independently of the church with no alterations and standardly. That's the briefest explanation I can give.

SPEAKER_03: 2:58

Okay, cool. Okay, so who typically who typically comes to AOGP for services? You know, for example, ex-Scientologists, raw public, both. Um, how does what kind of people come to AOGP?

SPEAKER_01: 3:12

Well, in interestingly enough, um, in the beginning, uh, it was about 50-50 people who uh were in the independent field already. They had left the church. Um, or uh more recently and almost exclusively, um, it has become more of a people who are wanting to leave the church and want more information. Um that's what we've seen the last few years. And uh they love the technology, but uh they have they take issue and have issues with uh their treatment and how they're handled by the corporate church. But anybody, whether they've been in the church or not been in the church, and they're starting uh their journey with independent Scientology, it doesn't matter. Anybody can do services on at our organization. Uh the caveat to that is that people should know so that this is documented, is if you're in the church and you want to stay in the church and you do something with us as an independent organization or some other independent organization, and then you decide to go back, your chances of being able to do services in the church after receiving those services from us or some other independent organization are very slim. So let that be known, and it is a commitment, and it's the best commitment that you can make. Um, given if you want LRH's standard technology delivered standardly, and you want the whole enchilada, so to speak, and you want to get the real deal, uh, I can guarantee with certainty that that is what you will get.

SPEAKER_03: 5:05

Okay, cool. So so a lot of information there for people that already have an understanding of Scientology as well. Um that you know you can continue through an independent organization as well, which is which is really good to know.

SPEAKER_01: 5:19

Right. We are a kinder, version of Scientology, basically. We deliver it in a way that is more like it was uh when I was young in the 70s and was real flowy and open and and not evaluative and dogmatic and well, for lack of a better word, suppressive. That's what we do, is is we're the opposite of the corporate church Scientology.

SPEAKER_03: 5:48

And and the good thing is, if you have no idea about independent Scientology, um you'll learn through this organization as well. Um, which is which is really cool. All right. Well, let's move on to auditing. So what is auditing in the simplest terms?

SPEAKER_01: 6:07

Well, uh auditing is a type of action that where you're dealing with an auditor who is one who listens. Uh, the difference between auditing and psychotherapy is there is no evaluation or invalidation uh at all, nor is there any prescription drugs that you would get from a psychiatrist, uh more so evaluation andor invalidation in some cases, depending on if you were dealing with a psychologist. It is a form of counseling that gets you to see the things you need to see without any uh opinion from the auditor. So it is a very clean and to the point action that is done in a session, uh, typically somewhere in the neighborhood of between an hour and three hours. Typically, with us, the session is an hour to two hours, and we get you to direct your attention towards areas of your life and your existence that need attention uh using a theta meter, which is a remote um meter that's on your end, and we control it from our side over Zoom. And this is something the church does not do, which means that you can go in session at home, uh, at your leisure. You do not have to leave your home, your town, your state, your country to do auditing. It can be done anywhere in the world with a decent internet connection, microphone, and camera, and uh a more recent computer to run the theta meter, but it it's not a big application, but we control it from our end and we take you in session in video. And it is revolutionary, and it is something that LRH would definitely agree with, uh, especially given the circumstances uh that we face, and now that we deal with a global community, as opposed to having to travel for everything, say like we did even 12-13 years ago. So it's a huge improvement, and it works just as if I was in the room with you or any other auditor was in the room with you.

SPEAKER_03: 8:34

Yeah, it's pretty it's pretty incredible the technology around it. It is, um, and the simplicity it offers as well. It's yeah, it's really quite unique. Okay. So, um, okay, so you've covered a little bit there around the meter as well. Um so if somebody wants to do auditing um and get an experience for it, um, what kind of is there any prerequisites? Is there any steps before auditing begins?

SPEAKER_01: 9:03

Yeah, typically um the the first things that we do is uh you know, once we've established that the person wants to get auditing and everything, we have them do a personality test. We use the original uh Oxford capacity analysis test uh with the unaltered questions, which uh we cover in um our season one episodes with Mark Schreffler, how the church uses an altered OCA test with different questions, and that gives you different answers and can lead to wrong indications for a person as to what's going on in their life. We use the original OCA test, and we also um have them do an IQ test so that we have a baseline of where they're at, both in life and what their IQ is, because typically as you start doing auditing, your IQ improves, um, which we're gonna cover in a subsequent podcast, uh, most likely our next episode uh in season two, excuse me, season 11, episode two, the next podcast. And with these two things, now we have an established baseline. Okay, this is where you start out at, this is where your life is on the personality test. This is what your IQ to IQ is, and then we have that and we put that in your folder as a pre-clear, uh, which is a person who is not yet clear, which we'll get to later. Um, and then once that's done, now we have that information. And of course, everything is confidential. Uh, the the auditor's code applies, what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas. Uh an auditor doesn't talk about their PC sessions or anything like that to anybody. Um, I am the case supervisor on these sessions as well as the auditor, which uh goes hand in hand with the case supervisor series one, uh, which is auditors' rights. And an auditor can CS their own sessions if they are a trained case supervisor. And I program all of the folders based off of the metered interviews that we do after the OCA test and the IQ test. And those metered interviews give us all of the information that we need to program as a case supervisor the person's case and give them the steps to either return them to a point to where they can get onto the grade chart and then progress in the grades that occur on there. A lot of times people need some cleanup in life before we get going to a standard uh progress program. So that's done, and those are the first steps that we take uh once we have uh the precur pre-clear paid for their auditing, and then we get going, get them the meter, and then get them in session after the OCA and and the IQ test. We do all those interviews, program the folder, and then we get on with the auditing. That's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_03: 12:09

Okay, so so for people that aren't too familiar with Scientology as it is, um, what's a um what's an OCA test?

SPEAKER_01: 12:18

Well, an OCA test is uh A uh columns A to J in the alphabet that uh require uh 200 questions to be answered honestly. Don't tell us what you think you want us to hear, but answer those questions. And the OCA test shows us areas that we can address in auditing. Um in so doing, it talks about communication. Uh anywhere from where you're happy or you're depressed to what your doing this level is, if you're aggressive in life or you're compulsive in areas in your life. Uh, it's an incredibly, incredibly accurate test to see where a person is is at, as long as they answer the questions honestly. And if a person doesn't answer the questions honestly, we can see that in the test too, interestingly enough. So um it's important to note that not only in the personality test, but in auditing, the only way auditing and Scientology and Dynetics work for a person if they are honest with themselves. So be honest with yourself. And if you are contacting us or wanting auditing, there is clearly something you want to have handled. If you want that something to be handled, you need to be able to say, okay, I have some things I want to have handled. We get that in the metered interview, we get that in the personality test, which we can see. Uh, your IQ tends to reflect that as well. Um, the better case state, the better you are, and better shape you are in as a person, um, is indicative of what your IQ is. And uh not everybody is a huge mess or anything like that, but you have higher orders of things that people want to address the higher their IQ is. You're aware of more, now you see a bigger picture, now you see you want to have this handled. So a low IQ isn't necessary to get auditing, it's a high IQ can still want auditing as well. So the OCA test and the IQ test complement that quite a bit, and it gives us an idea of where you were to where you can be. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_03: 14:39

Okay, so let's take a look at okay. So somebody's already started auditing. Um what kind of things can they notice through auditing? You know, what kind of results can people notice early on in their auditing?

SPEAKER_01: 14:55

Well, that's uh the it's it's dependent upon what it is. Yeah, that's dependent upon what it is that we do.

SPEAKER_03: 15:07

Um it's really let's say let's create a typical scenario because I mean I suppose a lot of people that are familiar with somentology are already will have a fair idea of of this question. But let's say somebody fresh off the street, um, they have no idea about auditing, they've never experienced it. Um what can they expect from it?

SPEAKER_01: 15:31

Well and we've talked about this um a lot in in other podcasts, but what it what it really comes down to is one of the big problems that a being faces, a being plus a body, is at the lower end of the scale, people are not really aware that they are a being controlling a body. And this is where a lot of the hilarity ensues and the game of life uh gets you instead of you playing the game of life. So typically what a person will see early on in auditing, and we see this a lot, but um, all auditors have seen this a lot since auditing uh came on the scene in 1950, is a person will gradiently gradually become aware of that they are a spiritual being, and that can surface in a lot of different ways or manifest. Uh typically what they'll see is that that uh with with just the basics of basics, once we clear up all of the basic definitions in a Scientology CS1, which is an action where the first thing we do after we do all those interviews and we get a program is if the person hasn't had any auditing, uh, we will do the Scientology CS1, which is all of the common words that are used in the auditing process. So that you know that they know on the meter, because the meter shows when a person understands a word or a concept that we're all on the same page. You understand these concepts, I know you understand these concepts, and then we move forward. So this would include basic concepts of Scientology, dianetics, uh, what a communication, a cycle of communication is uh between the auditor and the pre-clear, and in an auditing session, uh, what the definition of pre-clear is auditor, reactive mind, charge that shows up on the meter, bypass charge, which is uh part and parcel to charge, which is all of the energy that is stored up with the pre-clear, and that is what we handle in auditing. So once the pre-clear has all of these concepts, including how to uh start a session with rudiments, you have to handle the person's um ARC breaks, which is upsets with other people or themselves, present time problems, problems they're having in life. You also have to handle missed withholds, which is things that they have done, uh survival acts that other people may or may not have found out about, but they wonder if they knew. All these things have a person's attention. We have to handle that first. And one of the reasons why I'm bringing this up is in a life repair package, uh, for example, that that particular action, what you're trying to do is you're trying to get the person first off to repair whatever is going on in their life immediately, right now, that has their attention. And uh just in doing that, these simple, simple actions, um, every time, once you know that the pre-clear understands these concepts and knows what to look for, which is key, uh, and you have to clear those words and and go through it with them a few times to make sure they understand the procedure. Once they know what to look for and you start directing their attention, they'll say to you, How did you know that? This meter, what's what's what's going on? How how did you know that I I I had it had that thought? And and that is the magic of dynetics and Scientology auditing is that the if you know what you're doing as a trained auditor, you can see where the areas of charge are, and you're directing their attention as an auditor to handle these immediate things that have their attention on. And to get to what it is that you're asking, what they're going to immediately see is they're going to feel freer in that particular area. Their attention, and and you can attest to this as well, they're going to feel a lot more at ease and at cause over those things that have come up in the interviews that we're going to address in life repair. And so all we're trying to do is recover the pre-clear's attention to a point to where they now can act. They are now at cause over whatever, and it could be anything. Nine times out of ten, it's uh interpersonal relationships andor money. Uh, they need to make more money, that's always always something. But at the end of the day, what you're trying to do is you're trying to get this being who is talking to you on the other end of the e-meter to recognize that they are a spiritual being, and they are you're getting them without evaluation or invalid invalidation, you're getting them to realize that they are a um spiritual being that is connected to a body and they are not part of the physical universe. And this is a tricky one, it's a tricky one because people have been so duped, and when I say people, beings, beings running a body, have been so misled on who and what they are, that once you get to that point, and it always happens, they will have a milestone of magnitude so that they can now progress away from the problems in life and get on with the show and go up the grade chart and recover their abilities. That's the point of it, and that's what happens in every auditing session. Eventually, some people take longer, some people take shorter, but that's what happens.

SPEAKER_03: 22:08

So, um I can answer this, but um, that's okay. I mean, you know, you can you can give your your answers on it if you usually take to see meaningful change.

SPEAKER_01: 22:21

Well, that's a great question.

SPEAKER_03: 22:22

And the answer to that from my perspective is immediate straight away.

SPEAKER_01: 22:28

Yeah. Yeah, and and that's that's through the magic of the technology and using a meter and somebody that knows how to apply that technology and the meter is is it doesn't take long. The one caveat, the the one thing that needs to be kept in mind is you need to get in session often. The reason why we do auditing in 12 and a half hour blocks, or what is called an intensive, is because you need to do it intensively. The more auditing you get on a daily basis, typically I take people in between one and two hours a day, the more time you devote to that in a regular schedule. Uh, I'll give you an example. I had a pre-clear that went from the bottom of the bridge to the state of clear, which is when a being relieves themselves of their own reactive mind. They went in session one day, um, one hour a day, three three days a week, and they there were times there that they took off for vacations and things like that. You're looking in the neighborhood from the bottom to clear, somewhere in the neighborhood, three hours a day every week, you're looking at about a year to a year and a half. The more time you put in, the quicker you can go from the bottom to clear. No joke. And if you can spend two hours a day on it, four days a week, you're gonna get there in less than a year. It's that simple because you can get more done, and you're not having to deal with all of the stuff in life that has to be handled before you can get on with the show in each session. So it's important to try and get as much time in as you can. And and I want to make this point it is extremely important that you run up the bridge. Don't walk, don't sit there and think, okay, this is going to this is gonna take a long time. It doesn't take a long time. You can make a person from zero to clear in less than six months if they dedicate the time to it. It's not real to the person, and it won't be real to the person, but about a third of the way they'll go, oh yeah, I can see this. Half of the way, they're like, I can definitely do this. Boom. It's just a matter of applying yourself. There is nothing more important than doing that right now. The sooner you get it done, the sooner you're going to see your life in a different fashion, and you're going to have wins and successes in it through your own actions that you would have never ever thought possible. I think you would agree with me on that as well.

SPEAKER_03: 25:11

Yeah, totally, totally. So um, one one question it does raise for me is um, okay, so let's say somebody's listening to this and they recognize that they've they've got some stuff going on in their life, they want to get in it and they want to get into auditing straight away. Um, is there auditing that can be done within atometer initially? Like somebody wants to get into it straight away. Um what can they do?

SPEAKER_01: 25:39

Well, there is. Um one of the uh you know most cost effective things is to get on one of our free courses on the call uh college of independent scientology.com on our online course room and take some of those courses that that are there and do those. They're they're all short courses. And you just mentioned in the podcast uh yesterday how quick the ups and downs course is uh in life, and do those courses, and 50% of the gains are from training, 50% are from processing. So you can get a lot out of the materials and then apply it to your life, and you're like, Well, hey, wait a minute. If I'm doing this and I'm just learning it on a course, what is auditing like? And then uh and you can you can tell people, I can tell people, and anybody that's done them, as long as you clear your words and you understand the materials, you will get gains, and that is a mere fraction of what you can get from auditing, but you need that information because the more information you have, the quicker your auditing goes. So you can do that. You can do the uh uh self-analysis course, which is um auditing in its own right and is free on the college, and get started with that. Uh, above that, you can um get Dianetics auditing with us, which is the original Dianetics in a modernized fashion as far as the steps that are done in Dianetics uh as of 1977-78. So you can get further quicker with the modern book one Dianetics, uh, which is somewhat retooled and streamlined so that you don't spend countless hours uh recounting particular incidences through Dianetics, and you can get on with the show and get more gain per hour. Um, and those are typically uh$500 for 12 and a half hours, uh, which is basically the same rate as psychoan uh analysis is for a decent psychologist or psychiatrist outside of independent dianetics and Scientology. So it's basically the same rate, and you can get those even cheaper if you want. If you want to get a package of intensive 12 and a half hour blocks, you can get started that way without using a meter. Those are my best suggestions outside of metered auditing. Now it's it's it's good to mention that a meter, uh typically a theta meter to go in session online on Zoom with us, uh, typically costs in the neighborhood of about$600, both for the meter and the electrodes and all the accessories that come with it. And we can send that out express mail to you, and you can have it in a couple of days. So you can go from wanting to get auditing to paying for your auditing and getting a meter, and you can be in session in the same week in most circumstances, as long as we have theta meters available within proximity to where you're at, like in the United States. Typically, we have some on reserve, and we can get those out, get you paid for your auditing, and get you in session within a couple of days at most.

SPEAKER_03: 29:08

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_01: 29:09

Okay, good.

SPEAKER_03: 29:11

A lot to think about. So um, so what are CLEs and OTs? And does AOGP deliver those?

SPEAKER_01: 29:22

We do deliver um all of the auditing, as I mentioned early on in the the podcast. We do deliver all of the auditing that gets a person from the bottom of the bridge at need for change on the awareness scale, which is a scale as your awareness increases with auditing. You're like, I need to do something about this. I want to do something about this. Um, and getting through all of those particular grades that leads to the state of clear, which is where a being no longer has their own reactive mind and are a cause over their. universe in the sense of matter, energy, space, and time. So clear is a really, really, really good start. And it is a state heretofore uh not extant that existed before 1950 and as LRH improved the technology, it became a much quicker action uh than it was in 1950 and much more precise and you can really cut to the chase. So a clear is a cause can get things done they are they aren't reactive about things that you know and and it's not to say that uh if a situation warrants somebody getting ups upset about something, sure that's fine. But that's going to happen. But the thing is is that you can select to do it and you can select not to do it much more appropriately because there isn't anything there pushing you in that direction. That is what clear is is you're much more at cause over your emotion, your surroundings, your cause level you don't find yourself getting depressed. You find yourself much more uh energized and capable to confront your existence and the world around you and get things done for you for your family for your group so on and so forth. So that's clear. Now from clear what you're trying to do is you're now trying to handle a much wider swath of the case that a person has beyond clear and without getting into any confidential information the gains that one a person can have above clear on the OT levels of which there are seven OT levels there are also four others that were removed by the church of the corporate church of Scientology back in the 70s. We deliver the the new one through seven and we also deliver the original OT four five six and seven and those are fabulous fabulous levels as well and they not only are OT levels they are positive gain where Yellow H is telling you hey look at this this is an ability you have as a being controlling a body you didn't know that you had and they're nothing short of if somebody doesn't understand something they say it's magic. To degrees that would not be real to you until you actually do them. And once done you are a force of nature and beyond not only in this universe but other universes as well and things are not as they seem until you get on to the OT levels. And my best suggestion is if you want to find out you'll you'll see based off the way that we deliver things standardly you'll see that that your abilities far surpass what you're capable of now. That's what the OT levels are about.

SPEAKER_03: 33:26

So so far we've spoken about one side of the bridge where um we've looked at getting services and now let's take a look at the other side of the bridge where you get training so what does training mean in Scientology terms?

SPEAKER_01: 33:42

Training is where you're learning uh all of this information about life whether it comes to wanting to learn how to be an auditor or how auditing works either way that is a big part of dianetics and Scientology training it's one thing to receive auditing it's another one to understand how auditing works and that is very very very important and it doesn't mean that that all of the Scientology training that and Dynetics training that you can get is about auditing it's about how the human mind works and how we got into this mess in the first place. And in so doing and understanding these things you're going to see the other side of auditing if you're receiving auditing to where you get the mechanics of the mind the spirit the the body the all of that which otherwise you would just be kind of wow I just feel better but I don't know how to describe it. And if you get training you will now be able to describe it because you understand the m mechanics that go on behind it on how you you get there and how you got there. It's absolutely vital to understand these things. And we go to great lengths when we take a person in session for example because there's sort of a there's sort of a crossroads that to the degree that a person that is receiving auditing understands the basic principles of it like I mentioned earlier with the Scientology CS1 the Dionetic CS1 these teach a a preclear who is getting auditing the basics but we go further than that something that the corporate church of Scientology does not do. And the reason for that is training a well educated pre-clear who understands the basics of the human mind the axioms the logics behind it the the building blocks the foundation of it we take that time to do that with a pre-clear and you get the same thing from the training side as well to where you're understanding oh this is that because if if the pre-clear doesn't understand it they don't know what to look for. And once they have that foundation which is why training is so important now they're looking for things and they have a much deeper they run deeper in auditing just as if they were if they were getting training and I mean when you get training you're running much more deeper because you understand these basics and what's cool about Scientology training taking courses is that when you go to school outside of Dianetics and Scientology things are thrown at you out of sequence. They expect you to know things that you would not know. It's called an outgradient it's sort of like throwing you in the deep end of the swimming pool and saying so so why are why is it you're drowning because I can't swim. It's just like you need to learn to swim in order to to swim in the deep end of the pool. You can't run if you don't know how to walk or crawl so what what uh LRH Lren Hubbard did is he had these check sheets that that he created along with the help of others once it was established as this is how you teach somebody how to learn is you give them the very very very gradient basics starting with the basic words just like we've been talking about in session and you get that person to learn about that. And then once they have that not 75% not 50% 100% once they have that understanding of something from the smallest bits of information to the next and the next and you these build upon each other which is on a check sheet steps that you do okay you got this now you do this 100% 100% 100% and they have it they move on to the next thing so what you do is you walk away with whatever the the subject matter is on a a training course in college of independent scientology dot com is you learn everything 100% but but you need to make sure as a student that you are applying your study technology and we have a solution for that too we have two courses for that to learn how to study a short one and a and a professional one the basic study course and the student hat which gives you the full hat 100% of how to be a student if you learn that information with either the small or the large course you will now be able to do these other courses which are either one is is an acceptable prerequisite to anything we deliver and that was sanctioned by LRH long ago now you can learn how to do anything on an appropriate gradient to where you can get that data and then you can apply it to your life 100% and you can apply it to somebody else whether it's as an auditor or whether it's dealing with ethics technology or it's dealing with data evaluation all of these things or administration and learning how to run an organization andor your business step by step having everyone before you go on to the next one it's fabulous technology and if the world worked off of check sheets in a gradient manner giving the person the proper mass and significance clearing their words and everything this place would be 100% sane that's what training is about is being able to apply what you've studied and that's what we deliver wholly and standardly with the accurate information not having been changed by the corporate church of Scientology and and I have to add to that as well as far as the courses go the way they've been structured is really quite incredible.

SPEAKER_03: 40:09

And it makes me wonder why from doing other courses and some bit of independent Scientology why some of these practices haven't been implemented as well because the way the courses are designed there they're just they're just incredible like you can you can't mess it up. And that's that's what's really interesting about it and the way the stumbled from the stumbling. And you know you can get past the first chapter so to speak. It's not like you're jumping into a course and you're still overwhelmed. The way the courses are structured and designed is is really incredible on its own and it does give you it does give you its extent you know what I mean like so you can start these courses and actually finish them completely without feeling overwhelmed, without feeling like you failed or any of those kinds of things like like the way it's instructed is really incredible um really simple to use very user friendly like yes there are some really strong concepts in there but the way that courses are set up you'll you'll understand some really complex ideas and concepts around the mind around the body um around your symbol just the way from the way the courses are structured and another thing a little bit as well is once you've once you've achieved a check on the check sheet you never know like instantly immediately yeah it's and you you don't need to keep um notepad you don't need to keep re reminding yourself you don't need to carry around a booklet um to to constantly get it back on it was that it immediate it it affects your bending straight away like once you know it the way they're designed you know it yeah but you don't have to keep backtracking oh what was that again oh like I forgot this I forgot that or it's incredible the way it's designed.

SPEAKER_01: 42:13

Yeah and and and it's important to note that you're not doing this alone. You have AOGP support on these check sheets and if you have any questions we can help you answer those. We also have the the capability of AI uh we're in the process of creating an even better AI system than we had with our earlier one with Finn to where it is a complete resource that you can ask any questions about any course and get the answers that you need with references that are downloadable. Now of course on your check sheet everything you get on a particular course is downloadable already but what let's say that there are other supporting things you see a word that you don't understand and you can go look it up in the the online dictionary and you can get an answer there but you you you want to you want to dive deeper well you can do that with the AI and you can get all of your associated references and then you can download them and have them as copies and everything is cross-referenced thanks to the incredible technology that AI uses to give us this resource so not only do you have have me as a course supervisor and having the experience of going through all these courses and being able to deliver the products of those courses you also have uh an artificial intelligent um resource that can have a communication cycle with you and answer the questions you want and give you all the associated references as you need them based off of every single resource that LRH ever stated and how these things interconnect which I when I was in auditor training it would take me hours it took me six months uh 60 hours a week to go from a uh know nothing to a class four auditor and a lot of that time was spent looking up references this was in 1988 long long before ai was introduced and I would ask a course supervisor for a reference they wouldn't know what it was I'd ask the course administrator who was in charge of the courses and stuff where can I look for this sometimes course would know sometimes they wouldn't and I'd spend hours hours cross-referencing in an analog fashion I'd have five six technical volumes the tech dictionary a couple of books trying to make sense of all of this stuff because not at that point in time up until recently with AI that's what you had to do and that takes it's called research okay well check sheets are there with all the applicable information on it that you need but there are words in those those references that you would not be able to find unless you looked in the technical dictionary or you went to AI we give you this resource we've taken the time to make these referencing tools for you so that you can get an answer in a matter of a second or seconds at most from AI and you can look at those references and say okay how do these things cross reference and what was the deal with this and AI goes here it is I mean that's incredible. Which is pretty incredible yeah I mean we we we so which go ahead yeah so I was just gonna say that that kind of leads into the next question like how is the training done um remotely um because there's not a physical classroom to train from so how does this how does studying independent Scientology happen outside of a course room over the course of probably 2,000 hours um AOGP has created an online course room that has all of these courses uh available and for sale for our students to do and all of the references all of the transcripts all of the lectures all of everything you need on that check sheet to learn about that particular subject are there for you you don't have to buy a book you don't have to buy a a course pack you don't have to buy technical volumes all of this stuff is is you had to buy in the corporate church of Scientology and it is included in your course fees and you can download everything like I mentioned earlier and have a copy of it for yourself to refer back to and you will always have in perpetuity that AI platform when you be you become a student and you join our quote unquote inner circle on all of this stuff at your fingertips permanently so that you can go in and ask any other questions as you let's say you get trained as an auditor and you're doing an internship which is you applying what you learn to others as an auditor and taking people in session you can go back in and you can ask the AI things that you may not have thought of when you were in training that might come up it'll give you the references and fill in that void. And then you also have me to give you references and go over it with you on a meter as a word clearer to get all of this stuff straightened out maybe you missed it the first time and didn't know you didn't know well AI and me and AOGP are here to back you up on that and it's all done remotely you can do these courses from your home you don't have to come to a brick and mortar organization and do this. You can do this at home on your computer on your iPad on your phone and do the courses that way at your own leisure which is something the church doesn't do and yes it is unconventional based off of LRH LRH's earlier references where you have a brick and mortar organization there's a course supervisor you're on course from this time to that time nine to five Saturdays and Sundays okay we've had to make some changes to this but it's still very very very doable and possible even like like for you and doing your pro trs course and everything you did remotely while you were in Malaysia with with Quentin and you've done stuff at home in the comfort of your own home the only thing required beyond paying for the course and getting on course is your self-determinism your control over when you go on course and doing and wearing your student hat as you study and I guarantee if you do those things and you have some dedication and confront to get through the course you can do it as well or better than you could in a brick and mortar courseroom thanks to our online courseroom and the AI and the way that we go about things you can get a stellar product for yourself. So it can be done anywhere with a decent internet connection which is pretty cool.

SPEAKER_03: 49:45

That's actually really cool. So the next question is probably more aimed for people that have a good idea of Scientology um so I know GP offers packages as well so so what would be included um in a package like the academy levels or the class four to class nine training?

SPEAKER_01: 50:10

Well you can uh it typically there's there's two routes if somebody wants to get auditor training uh you can get a a class four training package which per the Scientology grade chart that we use from 1981 is going to include your student hat your professional communications course your pro trs your method one co-audit course where you learn how to audit really for the first time you learn the you're taking the basics of auditing through the lens of word clearing and you're going to take somebody in session in a word clearing session which is where you're going to clear up words that they don't understand using a particular method that is method word clearing number one and on that course you learn how to audit the rudiments which we talked about earlier to make sure that the person you're word clearing is uh in session and willing to talk to the auditor and then you do the method one word clearing and the end result of that having the ability of a method one word clear you recover the person's education through method one word clearing which is a big big big big deal and clears the road for you and for the other person if you're co-auditing they're auditing you you're auditing them now you know how to use a meter in a session through word clearing then you advance to academy levels zero one two three and four which teach you about various subjects and then you are now a class four auditor and now you can take somebody from the bottom of the bridge to grade four which is the same as class four. It's just you're trained as a class four you can audit through grade four and then you do your internship which takes about three weeks full time you go in you audit that and now you are a permanently certified class four auditor and then you can do the newer dianetics course and make clears for me that took I didn't do the near dianetics course in my first set of training but that took me six months full time to do and that that package can be purchased or if you go clear once you go clear you can get on the St. Hill special briefing course and be a class six auditor and that teaches you all of the history of auditing and how it came to be all the way to the modern methodology with 427 I think that's the the right number of LRH lectures on the subject from 1961 through 1966. And now you're a class six auditor and you know all of the different things that we use in auditing with the exception of the upper level stuff uh and you can make a clear do any repairs and all of the different little rundowns auditing actions including false purpose rundown the interior rundown all repairs and everything so we have different packages depending on where you're at whether you're a pre-clear or you're a clear you can do one or the other and then you can get trained on the other levels above class six which would be class seven class uh eight and class nine and then we also deliver the courses on how to deliver the um L rundowns which are super super rundowns that one can do as an auditor to really return a person's um OT abilities uh in a way that complements the OT levels so there's lots of different packages that we have all of which are extremely and a fraction of the price lower than what the corporate church does and just recently I found out that the corporate church is no longer offering the academy levels to public you can only learn how to be an auditor if you join staff. You can't even get these courses anymore in the corporate church of Scientology which is super important for people to understand we're we're the only ones that are delivering this stuff in the standard way over the internet from the comfort of your own home you can't get these anymore from the corporate church none of the auditor training is being delivered by the corporate church anymore you have to join staff to learn how to do it and sign a five year contract.

SPEAKER_03: 54:33

That's a big deal that's a lot of information which is good which is really good and he said yeah it's necessary and it's and it's hard because the Scientology is such a broad subject and there's so much involved in it. Yeah there's so much to it um and the only way to really sort of get a good grasp of of it is to dip your finger into it you know or dip a big toe into it and just really just start with just a magnetic course and just see what it's all about. And um and it's incredible at how quickly it evolves yeah once you start that way because it's so difficult explaining the subject of independent Scientology to someone because it's such a big subject. And it's it's it's huge.

SPEAKER_01: 55:28

Yeah it's an it's important to note that that the AI that we have uh allows you to ask a question 247 365 and you don't have to have me here or Quentin or yourself. It's there all the time it doesn't get tired it has all of the references I've made sure every reference is there every reference is checked it is standard it gives you the correct answer based off of those references and in those references so you can always find out more at any time that you want once you're in that that you're you're getting training that inner circle and you have access to the lectures you have access to the podcast you have access to all of LRH's books read in his own voice thanks to AI you have group processes that that you can use yourself and you can use with other people all at your fingertips thanks to our AI so that broad subject is no longer a broad subject it's right there in front of you all you have to do is ask one question and go from there which is fabulous just fabulous mind blowing compared to what it was when I got trained over 30 years ago so yeah and not only that we're also there as well if you need if you need that as well so you you're covered all the way you're completely covered as far as getting getting your training done remotely um yeah which is really quite incredible because because you don't need to be local you don't need to be in Africa or in Malaysia you can be anywhere in the in the world I mean I look at where it's at now and if I look back on what needed to be done sure you could make auditors and everything but it took a lot longer time because of the research that was needed the knowledge ability that was needed and everything and if somebody had said to me you're gonna have this and you're gonna be doing this Jonathan in the year 2025 I would tell them that they're nuts that's there's no way that I could audit somebody on the other side of the planet uh in real time that I could give them resources that were limitless and questions that were limitless to them at their end at any given time I I mean you just have to sit and think about that and go this really it's pretty incredible. It really is it's just mind blowing yep yep all right let's move on to the next next area so um okay so the question of questions what is the cost compared to the official church and how do people make payments so how does the payment schedule work as well well that's a great question um as I mentioned earlier we deliver the original technology for under a quarter in a lot of cases it's even less than that than what the corporate church charges and it's done standardly and some of the things that I've seen uh more recently are stunning to me and I and I want to make this distinction it's an important distinction and I'm gonna try and be as as brief as I can on this but what's happening in the corporate church of Scientology is you're being told you're going to get this and you go hey that's great I'm gonna pay um whatever thousand tens of thousands of dollars for that and you don't know that what they're supposedly giving you is something completely different than LRH intended it's gone that far you don't know and we've said this podcast after podcast after podcast the hardest thing to spot is a missingness. If you didn't know it existed and you were told you were getting that how would you know and that's the the important thing So you're getting what LRH says originally without any alteration for a mere fraction of the price. And we have uh like we said with auditing, we sell auditing and intensives uh for twelve hundred and fifty dollars with a class eight, class nine auditor, myself, as well as a fully trained professional course supervisor, again, myself. And we have an organization that can help you out with ethics. Uh Quentin takes care of all registration, helps handle with the ethics cycles, and uh gets you through anything that needs to be gotten through, and ethics is a personal thing. We help you out with that. All of this is included in your auditing and training fees. There's no additional charge for these things, it's sort of like a sandals result, it's all inclusive. So you can get from the bottom to the top of the bridge for uh right now. We have package specials. These package specials vary in what they offer from month to month. Usually we don't have the same package special again. So it's incentivized. And when you pay for those package specials, you get from either if you if if you get a package special, you're going to get several different auditing actions for a particular price, which will be a mere fraction, a quarter or less than what you could get them in the corporate church of Scientology. So it depends on what's going on that month for that package special. Contact us for details, and we can get you up the bridge for a pittance in comparison to what you would be paying a massive amount more and not getting what LRH intended. That's the important part. Do you really want to go up the bridge? Do you really want to get the gains that LRH said you could you could have, or you saw in the definition of clear and you said, I want that, we will give you that for a quarter of the price that the corporate church does. We operate off of 1970s, early 1980s prices. Of course, you know, there we have to keep the lights on. We're not getting rich doing this, and it is important to note that when we offer packages, we do not give deals below those packages. And at most, we will offer two payments for a package. The reason for that is the package price is incentivize pricing for you to get that auditing at a cheaper deal. We need to keep that price where it's at. We'll help you as much as we can, but we need to keep the show on the road and be able to pay for our servers, the commissions that that that Arthur and Quentin get for helping everyone out, and that we can continue to keep everything rolling forward. We don't do this to get rich, we do this to enable people to have spiritual freedom and truly go free. That's what we do and how we do it. Yep.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:03

And like any organization, it does require a lot of man hours and a lot of time as well.

SPEAKER_01: 1:03:09

Uh no, it's it's a lot of work. Yeah, you're looking at you're looking at generally, and this is something we we we need to cover generally to go from the from just getting into dynamics and Scientology to going clear, you're looking at somewhere in the neighborhood of between two and three hundred hours of auditing. Two and three hundred hours of auditing. Now that's not a lot if in an ideal situation you could go in session 30 hours a week. Okay. So you figure 30 hours a week you can go from the bottom to the to clear in about 10 to 12 weeks, depending on if you need to do certain actions based off of your personality test, that sort of a thing. But you're looking far less than six months. I kid you not, standardly, you just have to have the time and the resources to do it from the comfort of your own home. That's how quick you can go clear. Now, granted, I only have so much time in a day, and I tend to deliver uh to five, six at most eight PCs a day. Um, because I also need time to have admin, I also need time to do the podcast, I also have time that I have to handle all of the other administrative stuff that goes along with all of the websites and everything else. And you know, you guys have your own businesses, and and we have to we work in three different time zones and all of that stuff, but you can you can get done in way less than six months and go clear, and then it gets it the the burden is off of us so much because then we just need to make you a solo auditor and get you on the OT levels, and then now you're responsible for your own case and you're handling a lot of the workload of what's goes on in the OT levels because the OT levels are courses where you learn to audit that level and then you go audit it and you're taking care of yourself. We supervise oversee and supervise that as a case supervisor to get you through that OT level standardly. It doesn't take that long and it doesn't cost but a fraction of what the church charges. It is attainable in a very, very short period of time.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:28

Right. Let's say um, let's say somebody's you know, they've got a family, they're working, that kind of thing. Like what's a realistic time frame there? What's what's realistic? What kind of commitment um would it take someone on a daily slash weekly basis um to get through either training or auditing?

SPEAKER_01: 1:05:52

I would recommend uh at a minimum two hours a day, three or four days a week. That's gonna get some stuff done quickly. If you can do more, we can do more. I'll take you in session seven days a week, two hours a day. Now, granted, we can't always continue. Well, let's let's say, for example, you have two hours and then you gotta go. You got kids, you've got work, you've got a business, that type of a thing. We're not always going to be able to get in two hours. Sometimes I'll take you in session for half an hour, 20 minutes, an hour, and all of a sudden you've had a big win. Well, what does LRH say to do on that? When a person has a big win, let them have their win. Okay, so we planned on two hours and we got 20 minutes. That's gonna happen. Sometimes you're not gonna get sleep, sometimes you're not gonna be well fed or rested. That happens, especially as a person gets older. That said, the more time you can give me, the quicker I can get you through it. Sometimes I can't start a session on time with somebody because somebody else is running long. That happens as well. I've taken another person who's scheduled with us on the college for their auditing, uh, and it's running long, and I have to do a repair list and everything gets bumped. Well, that's the nature of this beast because we don't have control over what happens in the session before your session, but I guarantee you we can get you in session if you have the time. If you don't, the more time you have booked, the more we can make up for that. And it's important to not get reasonable and and say, well, you know, I can do this, but you know, the weekends, the Fridays, Mondays, and then now you're down to Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and you're getting three hours of auditing. Okay, see you in two years, you know, and you know, that's how long it's gonna take. Yeah, but the more time you dedicate to it and the more wins you get, you're gonna, it's gonna be sort of like, I'm gonna do this more. I want to do this more. But if you start out with that viewpoint, you're gonna get there a lot faster. So you like I said, you can go clear in a matter of a few, you know, 10, 10, 10 weeks, 12 weeks, at most six months, but I need your cooperation and and to look at it as okay, let's go ahead and do this on the weekends as well. Whereas on the weekends, you might, you know, well, that's that's my time with my family and everything. I get that, but if you can improve life for yourself and your family and all your other dynamics, isn't it worth it to to sacrifice some of those those weekend days, those Fridays, those Mondays, and get in session as much as possible? Because you don't know it yet, but how this is going to change things and and the things that you do, and this is the key thing, is whatever takes you a certain amount of time in your business, whatever takes you a certain amount of time with your kids, your family, your relationships, that amount of time, and you you can verify this for me in this podcast, that amount of time is going to reduce to where you can get more done in the physical universe in a so much shorter amount of time that now you have more time to do these other things. Spend time with your family, spend time on your business, get more done in a shorter amount of time because you're not sitting there figure, figure, think, think, think, creating all these things that counter your purposes that you're fighting against. That's what auditing does. Make the time, it's the most important thing you can do. Trust me on this, and I'm sure you can verify that as well.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:51

Oh, definitely. Yeah, definitely. Even even just at this point. Um, so going through the pro TRs course. Um, now keep in mind the pro TRs course has a lot to do with communication. Um, and it's interesting just around that particular course, how much communication applies to your life. And it's not just about talking, it's actually about doing as well. And and it's funny because um because when I think of things I have to do in my life, I think to myself, I don't think to myself now I have to go do that. I think to myself, more communication, more communication, more communication, which means communicating more with my environment, which means communicating more with the things I need to achieve. Um, so somewhere along the way, the language in my mind around achieving has changed and it's shifted um to a more understandable, doable fashion without using those kinds of words, without putting pressure on myself, without um being aberrated by all these obstacles preventing me from doing. Um, and that's just one course.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:00

Right, that's just one course. You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:02

That's just one course.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:03

Would you say, would you say that this the the the amount of cycles of action, start, change, stop, because everything is a cycle of action, would you say that you're more succinct in your your communication and you get more done per hour than you did before you did the Pro TRs course?

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:22

Well, it's funny because coming back to my my environment in Australia, um you know, of course, there were so many things going on before I left, and then coming back, having that break and having uh doing the course and learning these things and then coming back, there's so many things that I'm just confronting. It's just so much easier to confront. It's well, I wouldn't even use that word at the moment because I don't feel that. I don't feel I need to confront it. It's just now I'm just handling it. Right.

SPEAKER_01: 1:11:54

There's an efficiency, anxiousness.

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:57

Yeah, yeah. So it's it's not like I'm actually confronting anything, I'm just doing now. Um, because it needs to be done without thought, without question, without aberration, without oh, you know, maybe I'll upset someone if I communicate with them. Like it's it's crazy.

SPEAKER_01: 1:12:17

Yeah, and you took that time out. You you you took months to get everything in order so so that you could you had the financial resources, you had the time, you you did that, and then you went and you put your attention on that thing, and in so doing, reserving that time and doing it in a intensive fashion, you came back and your life was significantly different and more effective, and taking much less time to do things that you might have otherwise put off or not done at all. And now you can push through and get much further in a much shorter period of time.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:01

Well, and not only that, but a clearer vision of what that looks like. And not only as a clearer vision, but also clearer steps, right? Clearer everything, like there's there's nothing missing from it. Um, you know, being able to see a project take fruit, I can perceive that and recognize the actual steps I really need to have with much more clarity. Um, much more clarity and much more certainty. Um, and what's interesting is that certainty that comes with goal creation, um, the goal is inevitable. It has to happen. Yeah, and and when I say it in in such a way, it's it's yeah, go.

SPEAKER_01: 1:13:47

No, that's right. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:51

Yeah, and and so being able to see it so clearly and so simply as well, um, and that's the funny thing, is how simple it actually is. But prior to um prior to the pro TRs course, things seemed a lot more complicated, and it's really interesting how really understanding communication can really change the way you think as well. That's right. That I wasn't expecting, I've got to be honest. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:14:21

So, you know, the the definition of the word Scientology is knowing how to know. And like we mentioned earlier, the hardest thing to spot is a missingness. So, in going into this course, did you in the Pro TRs course, the professional communications course, which is part of your auditor training for AOGP to become an auditor? Did you know you were going to get the things that you got out of this course before you started?

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:50

No way. Not even close. Not even, to be honest. I thought it was gonna make me like um uh I'm I'm and I knew it had it was gonna have an element of more professionalism in the way I approach things, but um, which it will do um as an auditor, but in my personal life, um it's it's changed so many. We could do a podcast just on that one day, just on all the things. And and to be clear as well, it's only been a couple weeks since um since that course. It hasn't been long. It's been what five weeks. Yeah. Which which isn't much. And already the the changes and the things I've handled and am going to handle, because there's a few things that have cropped up that I really want to handle. Um where in the past I wouldn't. I'd just have all these incomplete cycles. I'd have all these, you know, I'd allow people to have one-way comms, so to speak. Well, it's like, no, now I know how to do a two-way comm. And if you want to one-way com me, I'm gonna com you back. Right. You know what I mean? Like it's just changed it's it's just changed my dynamics so much where um the the fear of responding is not there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:19

And how to respond respond appropriately.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:21

So therefore, I will respond.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:23

And and yeah, that's right. Even even with tricky situations, yeah. Um, you know, it's made me see more sharks in the world at this present time, um, where I'm like, hang on, I can fish for a shark now.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:38

Right, right, which is a totally different take on you, you you were doing this course to get trained as an auditor, but as we were saying earlier in the podcast about what training does for you, is you got a tremendous amount more from this course than just learning how to communicate with a pre-clear in an auditing session. That's that's why training is so important.

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:05

Big time. And and not only that, you know, the way the way I've been trained when it comes to helping other people, um it's definitely changed my dynamic around how I help people because I've I've worked with people a lot. Whereas now, this has kind of shaken a little bit of a cage for me where it's just like, oh man, I did so many things I could have done better in the past. Like it's actually made me recognise mistakes I've made working with people as well. Not to say that they didn't get good results or anything like that, but it's definitely ramped up what's the word? It's definitely ramp ramped up my diligence around working with people.

SPEAKER_01: 1:17:52

Right. Has it improved your quality of life?

SPEAKER_03: 1:17:58

I believe so. Um and as I said, coming back to dealing with things I have to deal with, I'm handling those much better. So at the moment, you know, things may seem a little in turmoil from the outside, but on the inside, like I can stand so much stronger within my being. Um it's it's it's almost like a posture shift in a sense, where my posture is shifting with my certainty as well. Um, and the certainty is so much stronger and so much clearer. Um, but it's not aggressive, it's not um angry, it's not any of those things. It's just a matter of this needs to be handled. I now know how I can handle it just through communication.

SPEAKER_01: 1:18:42

Right. And and as an example, the as regards training and doing this in an online course room and everything, the end result of the professional TRs course is being able to handle any social situation no matter how rough with communication alone.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:02

Yes, yes, and one day I may I may share the current things I'm facing at the moment, but there yeah, there's there's people I'm dealing with that I never would have dealt with before. Right at all. And there's going to be people I will be dealing with in the future that I've never dealt with before either, um, towards my future goals.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:27

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:27

Um, in a very professional sense.

SPEAKER_01: 1:19:29

Right. And all of this you learned from an online course room in AI and myself and AOGP as a whole.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:39

Really that simple. Yeah. I will say it did take it take a commitment and it did take um the eight hours to put in. Um and to be fair, like even though I was in an environment where I could have studied 10 hours a day, I actually didn't. I I I studied anywhere between three to six hours, I think maybe two two days, three days out of that time, um, I put in eight hours. Um, but you know, I was in another country, so I still explored the country while I was studying as well. Um so even in a working environment, um, you know, even an hour of solid study goes a long way. And what's also really good about the courses in that regard as well, like I said, they work on a gradient. Like as you start working through a lot of those words, as you start working through through the um through the course material, it it kind of snowballs. Like it just kind of takes off in a way as well. And you might come across stuff that you struggle with, as I did. I came across some stuff that I really struggled with, and it wasn't until I made it through that then I was flying again. Um yeah, and so you know, you will have a little bit of an up and a little bit of a down with it because some of the concepts can be difficult to understand depending on you, depends on your character. But the things I got stuck on may not necessarily be the things you get stuck on, right?

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:07

Yeah, and that's that's pretty typical for for any course, and and that's what we're here for is to help you get through those things, and that's part of why it's so important to study and get auditing at the same time, is because I would say if if I could take the liberty to say, you view an auditing session completely differently now than you did before you did this course, both as a pre-clear and as an auditor.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:36

100% yeah, 100%. Um, because I had a bit of a loose attitude towards it before, and now I'm like, oh yeah, no, there's no loose in this anymore.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:48

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:49

I can't be loose about it.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:50

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:50

When you know it has to be done in like I'm actually really looking forward. Yeah, I can't wait to be a coach to take someone through through the TRs in the concourse because I'm gonna make sure they get through those TRs in a professional way that they come out just as strong and just as defined as I have. Right, and that's I'm gonna ensure that they come out as machines.

SPEAKER_01: 1:22:18

Right. And and when you say that, not mechanical, but natural, but they know they know mechanical how to do this. Yep. Yeah, that's that's the important part of standard tech, and that requires that you have the the the proper education and understanding of there's a way you do it, and if you do it this way, the way you say that that LRH says to do it, you will get these results. That's what we do. So that brings us to our philosophy. I might just add one more thing. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_03: 1:22:55

I'm just gonna add one more thing, right? So um, so there was no auditing while I was doing um the course, right? However, auditing does occur as you're doing the course, right? You get game. Um, the amount of end phenomena, how many times did I want to blow? How many times did I get cranky about it and I'm just like you know haven't heard screw this while am I wasting my time? But like as I as I push through those things, the realizations that appeared, I'm just like, wow, like how else could I have achieved this? I never would have had an opportunity like this before, right? You know, and I've studied a lot of things over the years and I've done a lot of different courses and I've done a lot of different things, but I can't independent Scientology is the way to go.

unknown: 1:23:46

Right.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:46

I can't floor it. Right, it's incredible.

SPEAKER_01: 1:23:49

And and that's that's due to the technology that we're delivering that was created by LRH. And if you do it right, the the gains that you can get from it are you're not aware of because you'll only be aware of them if you do the training, if you get the auditing, and you understand how the auditing works. And you got the gains that you get on the professional TRs course are case gain. You are improving as a being through doing these communication drills. And when you and Quentin were drilling on this, and I'm I'm overseeing you as a course supervisor on Zoom. Um, it wasn't a struggle, it was fun.

SPEAKER_02: 1:24:35

It was, and it was. We did have some good laughs as well, yeah. Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:41

So, Scientology and Dianetics, if done properly, is fun, it's a gas. I mean, it's the coolest thing ever because you're applying this and you're seeing these things in yourself in communication and how to do it properly. That once you know how to do it, now you've got it, and you can apply this to others, whether it's a pre-clear or another person in your business or your social life or whatever, and it gives you the ability to push through things that you wouldn't have otherwise without this information and training. That's why training is important.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:18

Big time, big time. All right, so let's move now. So, how do you, how does AOGP ensure standard tech? Well, how can somebody be certain that you're actually that the tech you're offering is actually standard tech?

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:36

Well, I got my training in uh my my first uh professional auditor training at the Flag Service Organization in Clearwater, Florida. And at that time the information uh pretty much almost entirely uh as far as the actual auditor training and everything was still good. Things hadn't been altered. Those alterations didn't really start happening until after that point. I got lucky, I was 19 years old, and that training changed my life. I got a college education, a bachelor's, if you will, in six months. I learned so much from that training, and I apply it and know how to to do these things standardly uh because of that training. And using that information, I know and I I I have over the years that I've been doing this since then, you know, 30 plus years, communicated with people and said, okay, so how did how did how did we do things before my training? And verified, yep, that's how we do this. And I know based off of the communication that I've had both in my training and with other people, even some of these people, these people were were delivering auditing while I was still in diapers, still in diapers, and in even before that. So we know what's correct and what's not correct based off of that. And you know, of course, there were uh generations in the research line and everything where LRH streamlined things as time went on, and we know that we have as part of keeping Scientology working, we know we have the correct references, we have the correct technology, and we've taken those references, we've taken those doingnesses from those references and gotten them on the check sheets to where we have standardized information before the changes took place in the church, and they are on our courses, and that's how we ensure standard tech. We've taken hundreds and hundreds of hours to get the appropriate bulletins, technical bulletins, policies, check sheets, lectures, unedited lectures, unedited transcripts. And it's not just through us, there are others who do work on this stuff outside of AOGP who are close associates of ours that have gone to the trouble themselves to get the accurate tech. And we've gotten all of this stuff codified, put in one place, and verified that it is there and it is standard. And that's what we stand for is what that LRH, the old man said, is what he said, and it's there and it's for you, and we know how to apply it properly to you and get the results that he says you will get from this. This goes back anywhere from working with you to getting on course, getting in session to getting you in session, to getting you through a course and getting those results the way he said is done, and that's it. Period paragraph chapter, verse, book, volume. That's it. And we have taken thousands of man hours to ensure that that this occurs and that you you are getting what what you were supposed to be getting as he intended it. That's it. And that's what we stand for, and that is our philosophy. And it's not you must do this, you have to do this, you're out of ethics, you know, all that stuff. No, that's not that's not how it's intended. It's a kinder, gentler Scientology with compassion, reality, knowingness, control, all of that, and we understand that ethics is a personal thing, but we take the time to educate you. And this is something the church does not do anymore, and they used to, and there are still a lot of really decent people in the church who are suppressed and don't know they don't know that what they're experiencing could be much better. But once upon a time, people cared. People took the time, people were and I don't even want to use the word patience because it's not a matter. Of patience, you're not waiting on somebody. You take the time that is needed to get the comprehension so that they can apply it to themselves. This is our philosophy. If it's not fun and you're not winning, let's find out why. Let's get the education there. Let's get the information from you to educate you properly and get you to a point to where you can use these tools in your life, both in the physical universe and as a spiritual being. That's what I want to do. This is a labor of love. And always will be.

SPEAKER_03: 1:30:36

Yeah, that's really good. Before we start closing it, I do have one question, um, and that's around people's personal information, because there's a lot of controversy out there about the church using people's personal cases, their personal stories, the things that they've admitted to. How how does AOGP deal with that?

SPEAKER_01: 1:30:59

That's a that is a good question.

SPEAKER_03: 1:31:00

Are you going to use it to blackmail people and extort money out of them? That's a great question.

SPEAKER_01: 1:31:07

That's a great question. And you know, just like people go against uh Scientology and LRH and stuff, they people tend to see things from their own viewpoint. They view things from their own emotional tone level, the things that they've done that monitor cause them to have that tone level and stuff. And and people are, you know, well, you know, how do I know how do I know I'm gonna do this? How do I know you're gonna do that? The the the thing that happens in an auditing session, when a preclair says something to me, and I write it down on the worksheets for their session on my iPad, uh, that information as a CS, when somebody tells me something uh that that maybe they they're afraid to tell and they're trying to get off some something that is really bothering them and everything, I don't even need to write that down on the worksheet because I know what they told me as an auditor myself. There isn't somebody I have to give it to where there's some transfer of information uh on paper or digitally or anything else. That that it doesn't go anywhere than that. And more often than not, I I'm using one word or two or a check mark because I know that I've achieved what LRH said you needed to do there. So there's there is no uh secret information that can get out in that wise, and when somebody tells me something, I don't even remember what it was that they told me the next day because I know I've done what I've done, and there is an as-is in this, we've gotten what we need to get, and it's no longer there, and it's handled, and I know what I'm doing well enough that it's it's not a problem. And I can go back and see my one or two words there, and I know exactly what happened because I was there, and my recall is like an elephant. Yeah, but do you get what I'm saying? Is is that what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas, and I'm here to help you get past these things that are holding you back. And as I said, this is a labor of love, and the auditor's code, the code of a Scientologist, the code of honor, all this stuff applies, and this really does exist for me, for you, for Quentin. And you guys have listened to this podcast. Uh some of you, some you listen to it one, two, three times each episode. And this is something we do because we care and we want you to get these gains, and part of that is having that little I-word called integrity. And I know how easy it is based off of everything that's gone on in the world that's going on in your life and what's currently going on, that integrity is very, very, very hard to come by. And for us to spend the time that we do and that we do, you know, I mean, it costs your time is money, Quentin's time is money, my time is money. It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of we care, we want you to avail yourself of this technology and keeping your information private and getting you through whatever it is that you need to get through. We can't, we can't do that without keeping our integrity in. We would still not be here. We have hundreds of success stories on our website through remote auditing and prior to doing remote auditing and everything. And these podcasts, if you listen to them, it won't take you long to understand that wow, this is a huge body of information. Do you really think we would be doing this if we didn't believe in what it was that we were doing and that we could do it properly? And all of the successes that we have? It's there's no way. It's ethics, tech, and admin. We have to have our ethics in in order to get the tech to go in, in order to have the admin, to have this podcast for you. And the time we spend talking about these things, what would be interesting, what would not be interesting, all of this stuff is outside and above and beyond us taking you in session or creating all these courses. Thousands of hours have been put into this just to pass on this information from a person who spent hundreds of thousands of hours going over cases, talking to people, pushing through all the obstacles and the stops and the suppression and everything. We owe it. We owe it to LRH, we owe it to Mary Sue, we owe it to Arthur Hubbard, who is still publishing his own uh uh basically his own blog and everything outside of the church and talking about this stuff and stands behind what his father stood for. Okay, this is his own son. And so there's a there are a lot of resources out there, and there are a lot of good people outside of AOGP as well, but we're here to hold the line and put that line into the future to hold for other people through you, through Quentin, through all of the auditors that we trained and everything, and all of the things that we have have planned, and we will not stop, and we will hold that line and keep our integrity in with ourselves and with you, no matter what.

SPEAKER_03: 1:36:36

Which is the way it should be. Which is in any organization.

SPEAKER_01: 1:36:39

Absolutely. And you know, I I if if somebody messages me in the middle of the night and my Apple Watch goes off and and they they want to know about something or they need something, and it wakes me up, I will wake up and I will get up and I will respond and I will handle it right then and there. I dare anybody to say that they do the same thing, and I wish and I want other people to do that outside of you guys because that's how much we care just because I'm in South Africa and somebody else is in the United States or they're Hawaii or you know Japan or or whatever, it matters to me. It matters to me that that person, like you said with Pro TRs, gets an acknowledgement because they're reaching out. Yeah, and and my attention is on speed of service. Whether you paid me to do anything or not, it's imp important enough for me to wake up in the middle of the night and answer that question because it's that important. It's not about money, it's about your future and that I care, that we care, and we want to help you care about other people and pay this forward while we still can and put it there for the world, for all of us as beings. That's what we stand for.

SPEAKER_03: 1:38:00

Yep, which is the way it should be. All right. So let's um let's wrap this up. So for those who are curious, for those who have had experiences and want to continue, um, how do they get started? Well, what's what's the simplest step for someone who's uh either a aware of Scientology or an ex ex-scientologist, um, and somebody fresh off the street, what can they do?

SPEAKER_01: 1:38:32

Well, the the the first step they've already done. If they've come and look for us on Google or they found a podcast on YouTube, listen to to more of those podcasts, get a reality on who it is that that we are, and find a podcast that has a topic that you're interested in, and finish it, listen to it, maybe re-listen to it, and and get more information and and realize that the Scientology that the corporate church of Scientology is delivering is not what Scientology really is or was. And that is no fault to any of the people in there. There are a lot of decent people, like I said, that are trying to do the right thing and they don't know that they don't know. I'm not making them wrong, and what's true for them is true for them. I respect that. But the thing is, is if you want to do Scientology and you want to do it the way Hubbard intended, we are your option. And you can get in touch with us on YouTube, you can get in touch with us through the the the podcast if you're listening to this on Spotify or or Apple, and you can get our email address, which uh is on the website, and you can email us or you can contact us through any of those channels. Contact me on Facebook, contact Quentin, contact Arthur. Uh, there's so many lines of communication that you can use on our website or get on College of Independent Scientology.com and get in there on our social media platform and our online course room and get in touch with us and we'll help you. We'll give you the information that you need. If you've been in the church or you're just starting independent Scientology, independent of ever doing any Scientology at all. We can put you on the right path and get you started on a course, get you the information about getting auditing, how to listen to lectures of LRH and get it straight from source. Um, what we do with these podcasts is we try to converse about things and make it okay to talk about the subject, something the the corporate church doesn't want you to do because they want to control it and much, much more. And you can learn about that in these podcasts. So I would say podcast, podcast, podcast, podcast. Get in touch with us. We'll get you on Zoom, we'll have a conversation with you. Listen to this podcast. If you're listening to this now, thank you for listening and understand how we go about things, why we're here, what it is we do, how it's different from the corporate church, what independent Scientology is, and that our our goal is to get you the information you need from LRH and understand it so that you can apply it in your life. Just get in touch with us in any of those ways and contact us by email, telegram, WhatsApp, YouTube, you name it, and we'll get in touch with you and we'll get in communication with you and get you on the path that you want to be on to learn more about the subject and apply it to your own life.

SPEAKER_03: 1:41:31

And don't forget as well, like the the free available courses on the college as well. Right. Um, you know, even if you just want to dip your toe in and just jump right in and and have a look at one of the courses, try one out. Um but what I will say with the courses though, like if you do if you do jump on one, see it through so you actually get um an end phenomena, like see it through and and see see what happens. Like really, really stick with it. Yeah, um that's an important thing. And then not the free courses aren't big courses, you know, they're they're easier to do. Um yeah, that's right. You know, and um even if you're studying other things in in life, like have a have a look at the study course, you know, if you're still at uni and you have an interest in independent Scientology as well. I'm telling you, jump on that study course and you'll be amazed at how how much it will change your your study full stop. And you'll be amazed at how how much faster your studying will then accelerate, but not in a rushed way, but in an in a clear, concise way, in a way that you will more than likely end up understanding the subject you're actually studying.

SPEAKER_00: 1:42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:42:46

Um, and I know that's that's an interesting thing to say, but it's truer than you think, and you won't know until you do the course um what I'm actually saying there.

SPEAKER_01: 1:42:57

Yeah, and I uh it's important to note that if you if you if you want more information, go register on College of Independent Scientology.com. No the in front of it, just college of independent scientology.com. Register if for some reason you don't get an email stating, okay, you I want to verify your email address, you can email us at j burk hyphen e x e c director at ao-gp.org. It's on the ao-gp.org website at the bottom of the page in the footer. And then you can get in touch with me. Sometimes it ends up in spam. This happens. Uh sometimes you don't get it at all, but just message me and we'll get you on there, and then you can book a chat session with me to talk about what it is your goals are and ask any other questions that we didn't answer in this podcast. And we're happy to do that, and we'll do a video call or an audio call, whatever you're comfortable with, and get you the the uh experience, the information, the realities that you are seeking. And you can book that on the college and uh it's set up so that your time zone is your time zone, not my time zone, and so that when you can book, it's gonna be for you, and I'll be there, or Quentin will be there, or Arthur will be there, or one or more of us will be there, and then we'll we'll get you what you need and get you in the direction uh what it is that you seek.

SPEAKER_03: 1:44:38

So here we are. That was really good. A lot of information.

SPEAKER_01: 1:44:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:44:43

Thank you, John.

SPEAKER_01: 1:44:44

You're very welcome. Thank you for doing this, Arthur. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:44:49

Yeah, it's been really good. A lot of information, and um yeah, don't be afraid to reach out. Don't be afraid to give it a shot if it interests you. Um Yeah, there will there'll be things that occur in your life that you won't know until you know, ultimately.

SPEAKER_01: 1:45:07

That's right. So everybody, thank you for listening, and again, thank you, Arthur, for doing this QA and this switching the rules. And um thanks for being here, everybody. Namaste, and we love you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.