Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE12EP4 - Independent Scientology - Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda
Stop handing your future to “tomorrow.” We take aim at the quiet loop of shoulda, woulda, coulda and show how considerations—those ongoing postulates about why you can’t—turn into the hidden machinery that keeps you off your Bridge. If you’ve been waiting for the perfect time, more money, or a less chaotic week, this conversation offers a sharper path: act in present time, shorten the com lag, and change the postulate that’s been running the show.
We break down why considerations are senior to MEST and how they masquerade as “reality.” Through candid, live examples, we trace delays back to their root postulates—fear of commitment, fear of being “on the hook,” and the old training that says you must always show up for others before you can choose for yourself. Then we flip the script. You’ll hear how rewriting a single postulate—from “I’ll do it when life allows” to “I decide and create the conditions”—begins to restore native ability, reduce dramatization, and put you at cause.
You’ll also get a practical drill you can run today. List every reason you’re not moving, then use a simple AI prompt to ask for “one more reason” until the justifications run dry. It’s not auditing; it’s administrative honesty that exposes the alter-isness and frees the decision. From there, we offer pro-survival counter-postulates, present-time actions, and a clean way to move up the Bridge without waiting for the universe to agree.
Ready to stop bargaining with your goals and start being them? Press play, then share the single consideration you’re retiring today. If this resonated, subscribe, leave a review, and pass it to someone who’s stuck on “tomorrow.”
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Hi, and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is October 27th, 2025. This is season 12, episode 4. And the title, working title of this podcast is Shoulda, Woulda, Coulda. Now, what does that mean exactly? Um, we're gonna get into that and you'll see where it heads. Um, but one of the things that that we've observed uh and and I've observed uh specifically is uh the concept of there's always a better time to do your bridge to get going to OT and get on course, and everything has to be in the right place, you know. Uh where would you rather be anywhere but here? And we talked about this from varying degrees before, but it's really important to get the idea that um the best time is now to get on and up your bridge and not wait for the physical universe to comply. That is the crux of this podcast, wouldn't you say, Quentin and Arthur?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and then when we talk about when we talk about shoulda, coulda, woulda, like as as you are moving throughout life and life is doing what it's gonna do, because it always does, life be life. But when as life is going about its own course, if you're constantly remaining the effect of life, the effect of bills, the effect of you know, uh uh uh family and friends and other stuff going on, if you're constantly remaining the effect of it's almost like your dynamics start to collapse, and this is just how I'm looking at it like your dynamics start to kind of collapse in, and that's when people start to feel stuck. That's when people start to feel like I cannot get out of this situation because the situation is so uh uh collapsed in on them. And so if if a person is looking for the perfect time to go up the bridge, the perfect time to do the right thing, right? The perfect time, when is that ever? Right? Exactly, because these things, these things will constantly serve as suppressors in your environment. That's what the messed universe is as to a Thayton. The messed universe serves as a suppressor, right?
SPEAKER_02:And and you're especially lower on the on the bridge, the game is playing you, you are not playing the game. We've talked about that a lot in a lot of the the recent recent podcasts, and the thing is, is to get you to a point to where you're playing the games you want to play, not the current games that you're playing. Regardless, you're still playing those games. But the thing is, is that theta is senior to consideration. So you look at the masked universe and you look at the calm legs, the communication leg, you make a postulate, and that postulate is I'm gonna get up my bridge, and I gotta have, and this goes back to all of the other podcasts as well. I gotta have this in order to do this in order to be this, and and you know that's really what's going on here. But the thing is, is the the physical universe can have, especially at the lower end of the bridge, can have a really, really long communication leg. So why would you want to agree? Because by by sticking with it, what are you doing? You're agreeing with the physical universe. You say, I, you know, I can't I can't do that. This has to be in place, and this, I gotta take care of this, and let me get this taken care of. And it what what? Yeah, because you're you're saying, you know, I want to I want to play my own games, but I got these games I gotta play. I mean, that that's really what we're talking about in this podcast, right?
SPEAKER_00:That's so good. And what I want to play the end of this day, and then you just gotta play it.
SPEAKER_01:Go ahead, Arthur. And it's and it's funny, the amount of um justifications that come with those those kinds of things is mind-blowing. Um especially when let's say somebody comes to you for some counsel, and then they they give you their situation, and then you point out what can help them. Oh, but you know, it's so hard to find people, oh, but it's so hard to do this, oh, but it's so hard to do that. It's and it's and it's such a common thing, and and it's interesting because I was once in that position too. Um, and to some degree I still do that. Um, but as far as moving forward and having theta goes around future projects, future potentials, um doing doing the work I've done so far has definitely increased that uh significantly. Significantly because I'm able to see my own blocks um much clearer, and then just having an awareness of the power of justifications preventing you from progressing, um, being able to see those justifications more so for justifications than reality is really powerful too, because it's not reality, it's just a reason to not progress.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Um, Quentin, do you have uh access to the uh definition of considerations in the tech dictionary or on RAI?
SPEAKER_01:Uh two, a consideration is a continuing postulate. That's interesting. There we go. Uh yeah, that's what I was really good. That was that was what I was looking for. That's right. Okay, and then the third definition, um, the highest capability of life, taking rank over the mechanics of space, energy, and time. Yes, taking rank over the mechanics of space, energy, and time. But even the first definition, a thought, a postulate about something. Yeah, yeah, okay. The second one.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, right. So you can see that as LRH says, considerations are senior to the physical universe, therein lies the rub. Because if that's the case, you have these postulates that you've got in place. Well, I need to fix that leaky pipe before I can go out and I can take get get in the car and I can go out and get a job. I need to handle my cats, I need to handle this, I need consideration, consideration, consideration. So you've got this long list of all of these things that are postulates that you put there in front of getting into a position where you're auditing, your training is helping you handle these things. So you're not being played by the game, you're playing the game. You're making postulates of a positive nature, not of an forward advancing nature, not of a stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop, stop. That's what's happening, and that's where you get into this shoulda, woulda, coulda. If I'd only done this, I could be doing this right now. That's a consideration. Yeah, shoulda, woulda, coulda. Mm-hmm.
SPEAKER_01:Which goes back to the first definition a thought, right, a postulate about something. But then the second, it's almost like this definition has three ranks of what consideration is, right? So the initial idea. Okay, so you've had a thought and a postulate. Yeah, but then the second definition is a continuing postulate, which means you're constantly thinking about it, you're not actually doing it. And then the third definition is taking over the mechanics of it and pretty much making it happen.
SPEAKER_00:Well, well, that first part of the first part, the first part of the third definition is important. The highest capability of life. So imagine if a person is saying, I can only do this much, or I can only uh show up this times, or I can only da da da da da. And if that's your consideration, that's the highest capability you feel you're capable of. Like that's your highest capability of life. And so the consideration itself is your highest capability. And so if somebody says that they want to go free, or if somebody says they want to be successful, or somebody says they want to be wealthy, if somebody says they want to be happy, oh, but I can never be happy. That's the highest capability of life. So say it you, right?
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_00:So that's that's your consideration.
SPEAKER_01:What's the next step up? So after consideration, what comes next? What's the next phase? You've got the idea and you've got your excuses, and you've got your all that what happens next?
SPEAKER_02:Being well, after you after well, being this, because the consideration is well, it's a having this. I have to have this consideration. And if I have to have this consideration, I need to do this consideration, and I need to be this consideration, and that's where you run into something that your attention is on all the time is what a present time problem. It's a forced counterforce. So you're holding this forced counterforce saying it is valid, it is valid, it is valid. I have to do this when really all it is is an out-rudiment. An out-rudiment is which is a present time problem, is something that your attention is on. Okay, your attention is on this. Yeah, but I I keep trying and it keeps coming back. You know, what's what's the biggest, what's the biggest present time problem of all that I've ever experienced in session with with PCs? I don't have enough money. I don't have enough money. Okay, got it. How are you gonna have and it's sort of the chicken or the egg? How can you have the chicken without the egg? Right, but you gotta have a chicken to have the egg. But see, the thing is, is is if you understand your ability as an energy creation unit per the Scientology and Dianetic axioms, you're creating an energy that is stopping, you're not creating an energy that is solving. Again, this comes back to theta the solver, theta the problem. So if you sat down and you wrote down all of your considerations about getting up the bridge and wrote them down on paper, and you leave leave enough room, or you could do it in a word processor, or you could get on Chat GPT and say, I'm gonna give you a list of my considerations, and I want you to listen to my considerations and I'm gonna number them for you, and then I want you to pose solutions to this problem for me. You could do that too, and that would be a very 21st century uh novel way to go about it where you wouldn't have to because I know people are going, oh god, I gotta write something down. But see, that's a consideration in and of itself. How bad do you want this? How bad do you want this? How bad do you want to be what it your potential is? But because you're looking at your potential through the lens of you're always putting it out into the future. That's that's where you go wrong, is you're putting it out in the future. Well, maybe by next year, maybe maybe in a couple of years, I can go OT. I know people that have been saying that for 30, 40, 50 years, and haven't haven't achieved that because it's always something out in the future. It's like going to the gym. I'll go to the gym tomorrow. I'll go to the gym tomorrow. I'll go to the gym tomorrow. And then two years later, you're like, you know, I need to go to the gym tomorrow. Right. Because your consideration because and I'm not pointing out any particular people here in this conversation, but that it's that type of a thing, and that's a reality that people have is I'll go on a diet tomorrow. That's what I'm gonna do. And so you just keep pushing it out into the future because you have this consideration, I'll do it tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and and that's why somebody was on the call with me the other day, and he was like, Yeah, I know you don't like going to the gym, cue. And I said, Nope, I sure don't. And that's why I don't put it out there, I don't say, Oh, yeah, I'll do this tomorrow, or I need to do that. Nope. I'm doing exactly what I choose to do in this moment, okay? And when I choose to go to the gym, and when I choose to get, listen, this body gonna be tight. I'm gonna tell y'all now. You just wait and see.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, so is that a consideration?
SPEAKER_00:That's my cons that's my highest capability of life. Because I'm I'm ready. But the thing is, is that I'm not gonna ever keep saying, okay, when I'm when I should have, I should do, I should go to the gym, I should go to the gym, I should give up the bridge, I should do this, I should listen. No, because what you're what you're doing is you're actually you're actually kind of coming against your own postulate when you do that. If you really think about it, that's right. You're going against your own postulate, and I'm not doing that. I'm not gonna start compromising with my own reality per the code of honor.
SPEAKER_02:That's right, and that is a definition of a problem. Force, counter, force is you've got a postulate, counter postulate. Yeah, no, my postulate is thick. So Artie, you were gonna say something.
SPEAKER_01:Um yeah, I'm still I'm I'm 70% postulate and 30% still uh woulda shoulda coulda. Right. Actually, the things feelings about that. Well, it's interesting because okay, so when you run out of imaginary justifications, right, then you start bringing in real life justifications. So right now I've got a little PTP going on, and that's my justification, but I'm also in the mindset of I need to step beyond that as well because that PTP is preventing me from doing so many other things, and so it's almost like and and with that particular situation, time is the only answer to see it through, but I know that, and so why am I letting it prevent me from doing other things that I could be doing in the meantime as well, and so that's where I'm at now.
SPEAKER_00:So yeah, yeah, and and and a PTP, a PTP is a PTP is a present time problem that yes, do we create our own problems? Does does life create its own problems for its own solution? Yes. But when it comes to being when it comes to PTPs, if the consideration is that it's a solvable, handleable, acceptable randomity, right? It's an acceptable randomity. Plus a plus and minus randomity. We talked about this in the earlier podcasts, but randomity is when this this uh uh randomness or this stuff that starts to happen, seemingly apparently random stuff starts to happen, that if it if you accept it as acceptable randomity, you don't have to be anxious or overwhelmed by it, right? But if it comes in the span of too much randomity or too little dragging out randomity, you know, boredom, then that becomes a problem for a being. And so this is why LRH says be able to experience anything. Um the way to have uh rule two rules of happiness, be able to experience anything, and so by you being able to experience anything, you can have that experience, but then you make your new postulates around what it is that you really wish or desire to experience for your life, and that becomes even better.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and I think that's the trick. Yeah, that's that's definitely the trick. But is that a learned skill?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I I I think it's manifest if if like in your situation, your your your current present time problem, and and per what L R H says, that the only thing you can be found guilty of is being there or communicating, and a post a postulate was made. Well, who made that postulate? Because a postulate is is whatever whatever the dis the decision that puts you into motion, into action in the physical universe, because whether you're brushing your teeth or your present time problem or whatever to our listeners, that is a postulate that you made that is intending force as a thetan through the body into the physical universe to produce a change. Is it a positive change? Is it a negative change? If it's a negative change, it was a solution to a problem, but became a further problem. Now, let's let's do the mirror image of that. Okay, the solution to a problem for the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics is not a future problem as long as it improves your ability. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:And it's and it's funny you say it that way as well, because that's very true. And and I think you also have to be in a position to be able to see it that way, too.
SPEAKER_02:Well, exactly, and that's that's why we're doing this podcast, is because it's it's hard for a being to think that way because what it comes down to is complexity and confronting. Well, well, well, I but if if I did that, then I have to do this, and that comes back to this writing down your considerations, getting your considerations off. It's very similar to what one does when one writes up their overts and withholds. Why does that work and why does that change it for a person? Because per um axiom 11, you're getting an as isness in the Scientology axioms, you're getting an as-isness by getting it all out there into the physical universe, it's a two-terminal universe. The paper is one terminal, you are the other, and there is a transference of energy that you've created that is sitting there because it's altered. And when you put it on the paper and key datum, you're honest with yourself, and you put all of that information in there, and that's a tough key datum. But the thing is, is you can do the same thing with your considerations. You go, okay, what is it that's stopping me from getting up the bridge? What and and let's even go higher from from both of you for our listeners. What is the purpose of going up the bridge on the training side and the auditing side? What why would somebody want to do that from your viewpoints, your individual viewpoints?
SPEAKER_01:Start. Um, with clarity, and you know, you make the world plasticine. So you're the one molding molding the universe versus the universe molding you.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, now what about you as a Thetan, though? Let's let's let's let's go above thetan, mind, body. That's I'm not going, I don't want to evaluate which one of those is that viewpoint? Is it thetan, mind, or body for you?
SPEAKER_01:It'd be thetan because that would include mind and body. Okay, so how could it be a machine? Well, because I'm in the machine. I'm occupying a machine. Yeah, I think I think when he says machine, it's really interesting.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think when he says machine, he's referring to something something that can actually do the work.
SPEAKER_01:That's unstoppable. Yeah, yeah. So it's more an expression rather than a literal than a literal.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. But do you do you do you do you see do you see my point? Oh, yeah. I actually just got it. What what is that?
SPEAKER_00:That that if you're coming at it from that consideration that it requires you being a machine, quote unquote, uh, quote colloquially, in order to get something done. Hmm. As opposed to just as opposed to just willing it so and it be.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Now it and the and Arthur, of course, this is no um criticism of your answer that it's right or sure I'll survive. But I I'm trying to make a point to our listeners is that LRH talks about mental machinery. Okay, so you're looking at mental machinery. You're mocking up this machine that okay, I have to run it through this process of something creates something else, which is messed, not theta. And that's that's the that's the that's the point of this is we and we talked about this in other podcasts where you have to mock up this thing in order to get up the bridge. Okay, well you already have a thing, and it's not a physical thing, it's you, the being. Because it isn't, it isn't part of you, you aren't part of your body, it isn't your body, it is you. So the decision comes from you, the postulate comes from you. So getting up the bridge allows you to create things without having to create anything other than the decision itself, yeah. And this is this is this is factual. This is something I have experienced a lot, and a lot of other people have experienced as they go up the bridge. But to convey this to someone who says, Well, I have to mock up this thing that produces widgets or makes makes biz biscuits. Okay, why would you do that? Because that is where this whole com lag in the physical universe. I need to see these tangible results to have this physical thing. That's not the theta universe, that's not what you're driving for in the first place. Get it?
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's you're using a via, right? You're using a via in order to create, and it's interesting in my spiritual journey and and how I literally live my life, I say a lot of times, and you guys have heard me say it before too, like, I don't worry about stuff, like I don't I don't worry about things, and it is what it is. I I was I was going through a lawsuit uh 2024, it was last year. Yeah, last year, 2023, 2024. And um, when I had told my friends about it, my friends were getting like, Oh my god, I can't believe that's happening to you. It was a car accident situation. I can't believe that's happening to you. I was like, I ain't worried about it because they ain't gonna money out of me. I was like, it is what it is, and lo and behold, as things unfolded, and it took a long time because it was just all these back and forth, back and forth. Um, and my attorneys ended up, you know, helping me through. So, you know, I thank God for them. But the idea is is that I'm not worried about this stuff, this machinery stuff. I'm not worried about the cogwheels of the planet Earth and I'm not worried about it, and it and it gets me to a place where I can create, and I'm saying this for those of you who understand what that feels like. You get to a point where you can create without vias, without encumbrances. You can I I hate this word, but manifest. Yeah, um, I I prefer I prefer the word conjure, yeah, but you you can you can make you can make things be, right? You can make things be. And and from that position of beingness, which is what OT is, which is what going through clear and OT, what you get to this position of beingness. Clear to me helps you not worry as much, right? When you when you when you are able to go clear, you're not dramatizing your own engrams, you're not dramatizing this stuff, you don't have your own reactive mind. And so you're you're able to go through things as they are, and as is things, or vanish things, vanquish things, conquer things, the the material you know, the missed universe, you're able to conquer the missed universe. At OT, you're able to create you're able to create along the best universe, right? And that's a yes, that that's a really, really good feeling.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, interesting. Interesting. Yeah, because it's it's just made me realize um like as I'm going, as I'm moving my way up, um, obviously, you know, having you guys helping me through it as well, it makes a significant difference. And I'm able to sort of like while we're having this podcast, yep, I can see exactly what's being said, right? But then outside of the podcast, and I'm left with my own mind. Right, right, things creep in and out, in and out, in and out, in and out. So it's like I'm I'm very aware of the potential, but I don't know the potential just yet. Yeah, I know it's I know it exists, but the knowing hasn't kicked in 100% to be that just yet. But I'm very aware of it.
SPEAKER_00:And and that's the beautiful thing about auditing. I'm sorry, go ahead, Jonathan. No, that that that's okay. Go ahead, Quentin. I was just gonna say that's the beautiful thing about auditing is that as you're auditing, you regain native abilities, right? You regain native ability, and so I like how you said it, uh, art, where you was like, you know, it just I know it, I know it's there, I know it's real, I just haven't it gained regained that it just hasn't kicked in yet. I just haven't regained that ability, and that's what exactly what auditing does. It turns things on in a way that I've now regained this ability, and that's where it's been this whole time, behind that situation, behind that ingram, behind that posture that I made. Like, really? And and it's and it's sometimes the most ridiculous of things, the most ridiculous of things. And and and you'll go, you'll be in session, and Jonathan Jonathan can attest because I've been in session, and some of the stuff that comes up, like, why that though? Right.
SPEAKER_01:I'd be like, well, I mean, even not pastor. Even before we started the podcast, John, what are you doing tomorrow morning? So because I know I can't do it on my own just yet. I haven't reached that point where I still don't need some kind of assistance for it. You know what I mean? But I'm willing to get that assistance, yes, to put myself in a better position. It is, that's you know, I'm I'm I'm being that honest with myself where even I my ego is not getting in the way of this. You know what I mean? I'm aware that I can't do this on my own, and so therefore I'm asking for help to put me in a better position. You know what I mean? Right. And so even though I'm not there on my own, so to speak, um, I'm I still have that awareness that you know the assistance will help me. Part of the it's it won't be the whole solution, but it'll definitely help me now. You know what I mean? So I can continue my considerations, and so I can continue putting things into place, so I can continue with my goals, so I can continue to cross things off my list.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Because uh I mean, you know, in in your particular PTP, you had said, you know, I I I you know without disclosing the nature of it, because it's you know, it's well, it's it's your your privacy, and we're doing a podcast, but you said, you know, I'm gonna do this on my own, and then you said, Oh, no, I need some help. And you did that, and and you're looking at the audio and you're like I can't do this on my own yet. I'm going to do this and it'll help. And I offer I offered I offered to help, you know, because you're part of staff and everything like that. Let's get you in session and let's clean this area up. But see that consideration, what a consideration is, I can't do that, or I can't do that because of this. That's the postulate. That's the postulate. The thing is, is it isn't a do, it's a be. Because a consideration, a consideration is, well, I can't ride a bike. I don't know how to ride a bike. I can't drive a car. I don't know how to drive a car. All right. Well, you stop before you ever started.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Literally.
SPEAKER_00:That's the posture.
SPEAKER_02:That's the postulate. Change that consideration. How do you do that? Write it down. Get on chat GPT. Give it the definition of a consider Scientology consideration. And you can find that just in the technical dictionary. You can download it from us on AOH-gp.org. Give it to it. Upload the whole technical dictionary as a PDF to Chat GPT and say, okay, I'm going to give you considerations one at a time. And I want you to ask me what my this is my consideration. I can't do X. I can't go up the bridge. Okay. And Chat GPT will say, All right, what are your considerations on that? And I'm not telling you to use Chat GPT to audit you. This isn't an auditing process. This is literally you just giving your considerations to AI and telling it, I want you to do this. When I give you a consideration, after you ask me for the primary consideration of my justifications for it, okay, here it is. Here it is. Okay, give me another another reason why you can't do this. And after a while, you're gonna go, that's silly, just like you said, Quentin, about being in session. Because all you're doing is you're just getting it out into the physical universe with a two-way communication with the AI. And you can use the voice feature in Chat GPT to do so. I don't even think you have to have a paid account to do it because you can upload the technical dictionary PDF, it'll read it, and it's already OCR'd, which means it can read it. It has to be able to read the PDF from us, and then put it on there and say, Hey, these are my uh I'd like you to ask me about my considerations on what is stopping me from going up the bridge. And I'd like you to ask the consideration and say, okay, what are other reasons for this consideration or justifications, whatever you want to do, until you run out of answers. And you know what? As soon as you do that, it could be a hundred, but as soon as you do that, you're going to feel different because you've unmocked the postulate. Yeah, that is your consideration.
SPEAKER_01:It's that simple, it's that simple, but it's very similar to doing withholds. Like very similar.
SPEAKER_02:Well, well, yeah. I mean, you know, what a postulate is at the bottom of everything because it whether it's an overt or withhold up the chain or the way you go about things, or whatever, all you're trying to do is get that off to another terminal, and then you look at it and go, Oh, well, I don't have to do that, I could do this, and then you can ask Chat GPT. So, what are some pro-survival postulates I could make that are counter to these considerations in order to get in session, in order to get training, in order to make money? All this, I mean, you know, you figure it out from there because you'll be amazed what you can do with AI just getting these considerations off and making a new postulate because you're unwinding the postulate by getting these considerations off. It's that simple, and now you have the tools.
SPEAKER_00:So I need to fix my postulate. How about that? Yeah, so I need to fix my postulate then because I said earlier that this body is gonna be tight, right? And I think the way I need to, as opposed to this body is going to be tight, it needs to be I love my body, I do love my body, and in loving my body, I want to uh be pro-survival concerning my body, and I want to do things I I am doing things that are pro-survival for my body, and I'm doing things that allows my body to function at its highest potential. And yes, so as opposed to my apostate being this body gonna be tight, it is I love my body, and I'm doing things to have my body in a pro-survival way to have my body function at its highest potential.
SPEAKER_02:Right, and so the way a consideration works, and and you're looking at at quote unquote OT ability is if if you've never been able able to ride a bike and you want to ride a bike, you've got to change your consideration about riding bikes. Because if you could ride a bike, you'd already be riding it, right?
SPEAKER_01:Right, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:So how do you how because if you don't have and and this comes back to the stable datum, what your stable datum is, is your current consideration. Because you can change your consideration about your stable datum, because if you go, well, I've never I've never done that before, I I don't see how that could happen that I could actually go up the bridge, or that I could I could have more money than I could waste, right? Because I've never experienced that before, therefore it's not real. Why is it not real? Because you have the consideration, yes, and I know it's a well, you know, this is all unicorns, peace, love, rain, rainbows, and flowers. No, it's not, it is your consideration that is standing in the way. You are the problem creating the problem. Change your consideration by getting off the reasons that it is your consideration. This is the bridge. So, why wouldn't you want to do that? But you you have to get out of your own way by changing your considerations. I'm not joking with you, you can do this, and it doesn't take a long time because all you have to do is is take that little pin that's holding this thing out of the way so that you can get up the bridge. That's it. And and it's so little you can barely grab it with your little fate and fingers and pull that pin out and out it falls, and all of a sudden, the solutions present themselves, and there it is. And you don't have to expect it, you don't need there's no expectation, it's a no, that's where it's at on the tone scale. Serenity of beingness. Just decide this and pull that pin out. Sit down and write out your considerations and how how they these are so important, and then you'll find they're no longer important. It's that easy. You do it with AI because you learned how to ride a bike, you learned how to swim, you learned how to go out and get a job when you were a teenager or in your 20s or whatever. I can't do that, I can't go in and confront those people. I have to turn in my CV, I have to go out and I have to fill out these applications. I'm so afraid of these people. These are all considerations that are in the way. But once you did it, you went, huh? Mm-hmm. That was easy. We've all done it. I mean, I'm I mean, give what give me an example, Arthur, of a consideration about something other than Scientology. What is a consideration that's in the way that is preventing you from doing something? I got one. Snap answer.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, okay, so snap answer, present time problem.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So what are your cons and obviously give me one that isn't your present time problem right now, so we're not getting into your personal life. Something less than less than that for privacy's sake. Okay, okay, all right, let's say uh financial growth. Okay. So what's your primary consideration about financial growth?
SPEAKER_01:Making money. Lots of money.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So what's your consideration on making money?
SPEAKER_01:I have to work for it.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so what's your con w w what what are your considerations on working for it?
SPEAKER_01:Um it takes too much time. It's not fast enough.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Tell me more about that.
SPEAKER_01:I want the money now, not next month, not next year, not five years, not ten years.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, so your consideration is is is on time.
SPEAKER_01:Actually, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. What are your considerations on the other?
SPEAKER_01:There's not enough of it. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02:Tell me about that.
SPEAKER_01:Just thinking about next week is too much in the future.
SPEAKER_02:Do you see where this goes? You see how we're unwinding this? Because the the altar-is-ness is not what you're saying that it is. Yeah. It's it's something completely different. And that is the altar-is-ness that is holding this in place. As we unwind this, we find, and if we were to continue to go on doing this, which I would recommend that you do either in paper or with with an AI, is you unwind this and and you then get down to the bottom of it, and then you get the as-isness. And all of a sudden your consideration changes because if it if if a thate knew it was was going on with them, what was wrong with them, quote unquote, in reverse quotations, if a thing knew it was wrong with them, it wouldn't be wrong with them. But what you're doing is you're pulling this string and you're pulling this string and you're pulling this string and you're pulling this string. And what you say it is, is not it, because if you knew that's that what that was, we wouldn't be sitting here having this conversation about making money. It's not about money, it's about something else. Because if it was, you would have already handled it.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_02:That's how you change your considerations. Considerations are senior to the physical universe. LRH says you get the right why, you open the door to a handling. Pull that string. Why go ahead with Quentin? What was yours?
SPEAKER_00:So um, oh, I was gonna say something else, but okay. So mine was about being able to launch this new uh very robust program that I'm coming out with.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, what considerations do you have on that? Give me the primary one. What's your primary consideration right now? That I've never done it and it's too big. Okay. Tell me about it being too big.
SPEAKER_00:Um it is it's a long-term, it's a six-month program that I have I've worked with people for longer than six months, but I've never worked with them in a programmatic kind of process kind of way. So it's too big in the sense that I'm gonna be working with the same people on and on and on for six months straight.
SPEAKER_02:And that's like like I do with auditing, where it's it's a long-term, it's a long-term thing instead of uh for a month or for a week. Right. Or whatever. Or just a session. Right. Okay. So what are your considerations on working with them for uh a six-month period of time?
SPEAKER_00:That this is what's first coming up, that somewhere in that process they're gonna quit.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, what are your considerations on them quitting? Uh what was that?
SPEAKER_00:Or or I'm going to not show up.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Okay, what are your considerations on not showing up?
SPEAKER_00:Um that's sometimes I'm watching, I'm watching. That that's sometimes sometimes you see his face. Sometimes I I don't want to commit myself to a long process because I don't want to have to be on the hook if I don't want to. Ah.
SPEAKER_02:There we go. Okay. What are your considerations about having to show up and being on the hook? Wow. Okay, so I don't know if this is auditing, but so this is no, this is this is not auditing. This is this is just an administrative drill.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, fantastic. So when you just asked that question, and I I okay, so I um I'm trying to see how to say it that makes sense. I uh would have to uh always show up when I was younger in my religion growing up, Jehovah's Witness, I would have to always show up for Sunday service, Tuesday night book study, Bible study, Thursday night ministry school, and Saturday uh um field service. We we knocked on doors and stuff. And because I had to always show up, the things that I wanted to do, I couldn't always do because I had to show up to be of service or to prepare myself to be of service to others, which sounds very noble in consideration, but it's frustrating when uh there's other things that are going on, there's other games I want to play, there's other stuff that's happening in the world, and I have to show up for this thing. Sunday, Monday, Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, you know, and then every morning we had to be at the table for the uh Bible read because we had to read the Bible before we went to school, and then there was this really I was in a very conservative religious kind of space, and so every morning we had to be at the table to read the Bible, then Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday, we had to be at the kingdom hall to be available to either prepare for field service or get ready for field service or do field service on Saturday, and then Sunday after service, we had to go out to field service. So literally, five out of seven days, I was engaging in some kind of other isness or other could determinism.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, it's funny you sharing your story has my sorry gag.
SPEAKER_00:And I wanted to do something different.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So what are your considerations in doing something different other than showing up?
SPEAKER_00:That something could um be something could be better for me to show up for, but I can't because I have to show up for this.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. So who's creating that?
SPEAKER_00:It's just it's because I'm I don't I don't know. It's not it's not a it's not a it's not a creating thing. It's almost like it's like it's like if I it's still a consumer. It's still a consideration. My my consideration is if I commit to this long-term track and I want to be available and I want to show up for it if I commit to it, like 100% I'll honor the agreement. But what if I want to go on a two-week cruise? Or what if I want to so I kind of uh been creating my business, and thank you. This is really good. Wow, I've been creating my business um in mediocrity, keeping my business in mediocrity because the bigger uh cycles and the bigger uh viewpoints are are too much of a commitment for have been too much of a commitment for me, and I don't want that to be the case. That's not true of my being, uh and yet I have been creating this business for 25 years in mediocrity like playing small. You understand what I'm saying? Like playing small, and and me playing small, it's been keeping me stuck.
SPEAKER_02:There you go. All right, so back to Arthur. Arthur, go ahead with what you were gonna say.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, it was it was interesting, Quentin, while you were talking about um your younger day. Um, it it actually triggered a memory for me as well. Um, because everything had to be done now. Right now, you have to do it right now. Um, you're going too slow, it has to be fast, you have to do this, you have to do that. You know, I told you to do it now. I want it done right now. God bless my brother. Um but not only that, um, and it was interesting because my first job, I was working um in a produce department, fruit and veg, at a supermarket, and and those guys were really tough. Do it now, do it now. It has to be done now, it has to be done now. And similar to what you were saying, Quinton, it's like, well, I don't want to do it now, but I'm being forced to do it now.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. So so what are your what are your can what are your considerations on being forced to do it now by I don't want to I don't want to say this out loud, but I'll say it out loud. Go ahead, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:I'll do it tomorrow.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, what it what are your considerations on what are your considerations on doing it tomorrow? It won't get done. Thank you. See how that's a postulate?
SPEAKER_01:Yep. Oh, this is really good. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, and this is something anybody can do, and it goes in directions that you would never ever heretofore have ever considered because your your confront, your confront won't go there unless directed by the question. Now, you can, like I said, you can do this on your own, you can do it with an AI, you can get in touch with one of us, and we'll just help you pull your considerations down to the postulate that is creating the counterpostulate to what it is that you want to do. And in this case, we're talking about getting up the bridge so that you don't do this anymore. Because when you get this machine out of the way, all of a sudden things happen and the solution presents itself without the machinery. You don't care as a thing what the machinery is because you're above that. That's how it happens, and you scare yourself because you make postulates occur. And again, the goal of getting up the bridge isn't getting the physical universe to do what it is that you want it to do. That's not the goal, but you have to go through that as a Thetan in order to get up the bridge. Does that make sense?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah, yeah. That was really good. Yeah, some examples, some live examples as well of considerations.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, all up in our business.
SPEAKER_01:Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_02:You didn't you didn't see this coming, did you?
SPEAKER_01:Right. I wasn't expecting that, but I'm glad it happened that way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Coulda woulda shoulda.
SPEAKER_01:So coulda woulda shoulda.
SPEAKER_02:That that that is coulda woulda shoulda. And and that's all there is to it, is it it's a labyrinth of your own creation, your own considerations, consideration, consideration, consideration. And it's quite literally just flicking a marble across the room, and you can't predict what it's going to bounce off of and bank off of and where it's going to go. But the thing is, is and this is a good analog, and everybody that's listening to this podcast for the most part has stood at a pool table, picked up a pool cue, taken the white ball, and said, Okay, this is me doing this, and you had no clue, and the balls went everywhere. Whereas if you understand the mechanics of physics and you know how to bank your shot, take that angle of the ball and where you're going to hit and where these things are going to end up, then you are to that degree at cause over the game of pool, eight, eight, eight ball okay billiards. So that that's it right. So it's either chaos or it's controlled effort in the physical universe. But above that is the decision, the understanding that you know that's knowingness, knowingness, understanding, curious, desired, enforced, inhibited, know are refused, and it's also serenity of beingness. If you just know it, you remove the machinery. But what we've got to do is unwind these considerations. How do I get up to the bridge? Well, what are my considerations on the bridge? And do what we just did as an example in this podcast with Quentin and Arthur. Pull your considerations out, and you're gonna laugh your ass off how silly these things are. Okay, so to our listeners, give it a shot and take that that that stick and poke at that ball and have control over it, and you'll see where all of this goes. You have control of it. You can do it on paper with AI, or you can contact us and we'll we'll take you in on Zoom and we'll go through it with you to get you up the bridge starting today. So for Quentin and Arthur and myself, we hope you've been illuminated by this podcast, and it is a watershed moment for anybody who cares, give it the effort and grab that stick and place some pool. Namaste, and we love you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.