Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE12EP6 - Independent Scientology - Affirmations, do they Work?
Positive phrases feel good, but do they actually change anything? We pulled apart the promise of affirmations and found the hidden machinery beneath: old postulates, create vs counter‑create loops, and the be‑do‑have sequence that quietly predicts whether change will stick. From early autosuggestion to modern mirror talk, we mapped how language can interrupt a pattern yet still leave the root decision untouched—and why that’s exactly when life snaps back.
You’ll hear a candid story about ending a long streak of abusive relationships, not by repeating better words, but by finding the original moment a mind equated love with violence. That single postulate ran across lifetimes until it was contacted and as‑ised in session. We also get practical: when affirmations can help as short‑term primers, how to avoid the trap of counterpostulates, and why “tell me about…” is safer than firing off endless what, who, or why questions that can spin up out‑lists and more charge.
We bring this down to earth with LRH’s Cope and Organize policy: stabilize as needed, but build structure while you do it. Use small pattern interrupts to move, then organize your attention and actions so a clean intention turns into a real product. The truest “affirmation” is completion—evidence in the physical universe that confirms a decision already made. If belief shapes reality, shape it where it was actually chosen, and let your outcomes, not slogans, do the talking.
If this resonates, follow the show, share it with a friend who’s stuck in mirror talk, and leave a review telling us one postulate you’re ready to replace with clear action.
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Hi, and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is season 12, episode 6, brought to you by AOH-GP.org and the College of Independent Scientology.com. No the just College of Independent Scientology.com. Some big, huge, exciting changes coming to all of the AOGP websites in the very near future. You're going to be blown away. More on that later. So we decided to do a podcast. This podcast is on affirmations. This was brought up by Quentin the other day. And oh yeah, I did my uh by R by Renton. They talked about it. It was Quentin, that's right. Based off of uh what was it, uh a TikTok or YouTube reel or something like that, Quentin?
SPEAKER_00:Right, yeah. And and working that working those affirmations and what that what that really does, what it really means.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Yeah, where did where did affirmations begin? Because it's not something that's mentioned by Lrh in um anything that I've ever listened to or read or anything like that. It wasn't a thing, as we say now, uh back in the 60s, 50s, 60s, 70s, and early 80s. So fill this in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, I think the idea of affirmations became a thing in maybe the mid to late 80s. Um it if you go back a little bit further, it would go into like the early 1900s with the idea of auto-suggestion. Um, and so the idea is that uh if you keep saying something or playing something over and over and over again in the mind, uh it becomes the it becomes real in the mind, right? And Napoleon Heel talks about it in Thinking Grow Rich. Uh Vincent uh Norman Vincent Peale talks about it in the power of positive thinking. These are like early night uh 20th century, like 1900s and stuff like that, where where the word affirmations was never ever used, but auto-suggestion and using these concepts over and over and over again to the mind to get the mind to work with that as a truism, whatever it is. So if it's healing and health, if it's finances and prosperity, whatever, you affirm it to the mind over and over and over again, to yourself, over and over and over again, and that becomes true for that mind. And therefore, it one starts thinking with that as an auto suggestion, starts thinking with it no matter what's happening, no matter what's going on. That's the idea and where it came from.
SPEAKER_03:Sounds like a postulate to me.
SPEAKER_00:Well, well, yes, and and the idea was interesting about it, and and this is probably the reason why I think people get it but don't. Because even with postulates, people get it but don't. You know what I mean? Like people don't LR8 says in the axioms that the mind is capable of uh uh considerations, opinions, and postulates, right? The mind is capable of considerations, opinions, and postulates. Um, and that's what the mind does, okay. What people might not understand about that is that that is all there is. Okay, all that is, when I say is, I'm talking about all that is the sun, the moon, the stars, this desk, this phone, my bag, my tape measure. All that is, is considerations, opinions, and postulates pulled together. I'm waving my tape measure in the air. The considerations, opinions, and postulates pulled together to become something that was a consideration, opinion, and postulate. That's it, that's all that is. And so people don't really understand what that really means for their life, that everything in your lived experience, if you want to just start there, is a outworking of a consideration, a postulate, and an opinion.
SPEAKER_01:How does that become an affirmation? Because like an affirmation is what you believe to be true. Yeah, so I affirm this to be true, yes, like the way the the the word is used, right? So I've always had an issue with the concept of affirmations because I've always felt you know, like one of the most popular affirmations that people use is I love myself, right? You know, or it could be whatever, but let's use I love myself as an example, right? So if somebody's repeating an affirmation of I love myself so they can get to the point where they love themselves, does that mean that they don't love themselves and therefore they need to affirm it in such a way?
SPEAKER_00:One would think could could be could that could be the reason why they're doing it, yeah. That could be it.
SPEAKER_01:Uh or is the real affirmation the recognition that they don't love themselves.
SPEAKER_03:See, that to me that seems more accurate, you know. And there that therein lies the rub. Right, right, right, right.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it's interesting because Elrace talks about dichotomies and the dichotomies that exist, you know, in this two-terminal universe that we live in, right? This relative, this relative universe that we live in, this or that kind of thing, or this and that kind of thing. And so you're absolutely right. While affirming love, you could also be affirming fear, right? Think about it this way. And uh uh Neil Donna Walsh in the book Conversations with God, Neil Donald Walsh talks about how when you say I love you, for many people, there's also a fear that comes up in them. It could be a fear of loss of that love, it could be a fear that the person won't reciprocate it, it could be a fear. That's why y'all hear me say, or y'all used to say me, I haven't said in a long time, but I love you, and there ain't nothing you can do about it because that's my decision, not yours. I say it all the time because my love for you has nothing to do with you, really, it's because I choose to love, right? And so, yes, I I do think that, like you said, art, when they're affirming I love myself, a part of them, or there is uh though there are those that might also be also affirming that not so much, or not as much as I need to, you know what I mean?
SPEAKER_01:Which makes it interesting because like John said, on the side of the postulates, right? The postulate is already there underneath the affirmation, right? They actually their actual postulate is they do not love themselves, yeah, right. And so they think by I don't know, trying a form of self-hypnosis by repeating these words in front of a mirror for an example, yeah, right, or a suggestion that maybe one day that maybe one day that might that light bulb will turn on and be like, oh my god, I actually love myself.
SPEAKER_00:Yes, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:That's very interesting, right?
SPEAKER_03:Right. So it if if I'm understanding this right about affirmations and what and and what we're we're sort of dissecting this. An affirmation is the counterpostulate to your earlier postulate that you don't love yourself. Is that right? Is that what I'm getting out of this? In my example, I want to do a standard.
SPEAKER_01:In my example, exactly. Yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That could be an example, yeah. So that being said, an affirmation is creating a counterpostulate instead of unwinding the earlier postulate. Wouldn't that be standing to reason is what you're trying to do with an affirmation? Yes. Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_01:But what's interesting about it as well is it sells really well because it's kind of lazy. You know what I mean? Like there's there's a laziness attached to it. It's almost like a a a band-aid remedy. Now, I'm not saying all affirmations are bad news, so to speak, or this process can't work to some degree, but there's an element of reality that I think is really missing. Because like instead of like trying to use words to change an entire dynamic about yourself versus then exploring the dynamic to create a healthy, accurate affirmation slash postulate. Because in order for a postulate to work, it can't it can't have gray areas.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, or counter postulates or kind of counter intentions, right? It has to be intention intention without reservation. Yeah, 40. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right. So you go ahead, Glenn.
SPEAKER_00:Well, well, I I think I think you just said something, uh, both of you actually, where if if you're if you're if you if the postulate is oh god, I don't love myself, right? And that posture was set somewhere on your time track, somewhere throughout your existence, I don't love myself. And then you try to cover it up with the rug of I love myself, I love myself, I love myself, I love myself, I love myself, whatever. I'm I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm da da da da, right? It never, like you said, unmocks that original postulate, and and it is an ultra-isness.
SPEAKER_03:And what that's what I was gonna say.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, go ahead, talk with it. Go ahead, go ahead. Talk about that because uh uh in order for a lie, what's it, Rule?
SPEAKER_03:Go ahead. And and and in order for anything to persist, there must contain in it a lie behind it.
SPEAKER_01:Perfect. I love it.
SPEAKER_03:That's it. So in and this this, I mean, you get into this with the create, counter-create, create, counter-create, create, counter-create. And so if we go up another level and we just get it into the retail understanding for people, you're you're looking at a problem that poses and uh poses a you have a problem, you pose a solution, which becomes a further problem. Instead of handling the underlying problem, which is why you don't love yourself. So have we just have we just debunked affirmations? Is that what what what we're doing? Or what what what are we what are we really doing here with this? I mean, it this is I'm curious. I'm curious, I'm trying to understand it, and this is one of the few rare podcasts where it's something I don't know everything about because it's outside of the reservation of Scientology data, but yeah, it's it's a new agey concept that's been in Barnes and Noble bookshelves for decades now. And I guess I'd have to do the the the thing that Dave Grohl said about all this new technology uh in audio editing and all the stuff that comes with 21st century music recording. He said, are there are there a lot of great bands out there and a lot of great music with all this new technology? No. So are affirmations making a difference, or are they just a veneer that people are putting there because they don't want to confront what is causing them to have the original postulate that's being covered up and paved over with an affirmation?
SPEAKER_00:Go go ahead, all right. That's a really good question. Go ahead.
SPEAKER_01:Here's a different approach to it, right? So, like let's say, you know, people will say dress better, you'll feel better. Right? But the difference is that's a physical act that happens in real time. You're actually making the change, right? Whereas as opposed to as opposed to doing something within your mind, right? And it's like you're trying to put new clothes on your mind. Right? So if I was to dress nicer and go into the world, my confidence will naturally increase. Yeah, people will look at me different, I'll get instant results, right? Because you're putting into action, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:You're putting it into action, you're being, you're doing, you're having. And that we have to, I think we have to put that into the discussion of what affirmations are. Are affirmations on the level of be, do, or have? I already know the answer, but let's discuss it.
SPEAKER_01:Is it a whisper? And a like quiz point of view, like maybe, maybe in the mind it's an alter is.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, it is. And let me say it this way, because I I personally do and don't work with affirmations, and I'll tell you why I mean by what I mean by that. I personally have worked with affirmations in the past, and I might even offer them if there's a need for it, for somebody to like work with this thought, like work with this thought for a while, sit with this for a minute, whatever the conversation may sound like, right? So, yes, that is something that can can um be a pattern interrupt, maybe it could be a pattern interrupt of a way of thinking. Nope, interrupt that thought. No, no, I'm not thinking that way anymore. I am prosperous, and and literally, the and the way I was taught with this, particularly around money, was my teacher told me that if anytime you go to the store or to a restaurant and you desire something, like you want something, and then you look at the price, and if the price, if you balk at that price, oh that's oh, like that. If you balk at the price, you gotta buy two of them. That was the rule, and it taught and and and that now that was in the realm of doing this and having this and the whole thing, right? But it taught me that I don't get sticker shock, I don't get price. I was just talking to a client about about buying an 80 million dollar home, and I was like, Oh, okay, that looks that sounds nice. Let me see it. Like that don't sticker shock me, right? So I say that to say that it can be a pattern interrupt if a person is used to thinking these self-loathing thoughts or these poverty or lack of limitation thinking. It can be a pattern interrupt. Now, does that resolve the problem? No, it does not. Affirmate, let me say this very clearly affirmations do not resolve the problem. Jonathan used the perfect word, it's a veneer covering over this thing that's sitting in you in there somewhere. And with good auditing, you go in and you for yourself with your auditor guiding you will root that out. What that actual postulate was that sat there and made you think that way about yourself, about your situation, about your relationships, about your whatever it is, and trust me, is deep. Okay, but I'll say you this tell you this it is a veneer, and but veneers can also be functional. Let me say this if you put veneers on your teeth, you can still chew, right? You can still swallow. It it's not your real teeth. You bought them for a good price if you got some veneers because veneers ain't cheap. But it's true. Don't balk at the price, though. Just if you want them, get them. But my point is is that you you can still function with that veneer to a certain degree. Now you might have to go and do a little extra work, you got to take them out, you got to clean your original teeth, you gotta do it, clean on the inside of them, you gotta go for maintenance. You might have to still do some extra work, but they can still be functional. So I I work with affirmations and I don't, in the sense that I want to get to the root cause, and that's why I I am an independent Scientologist, that's why I'm up in my OT levels, that's why I'm doing the things that I'm doing because I want to get to the root cause of the things that have kept me in certain situations, right? And until then, I might need a pattern interrupt, I might need to say, no, no, no, don't think like that. Okay, do what you gotta do. And I think that that's my viewpoint on the matter. Can can this can this stop you from smoking? I don't know. But if you get to that root cause, it'll handle what it needs to handle.
SPEAKER_03:So out of curiosity, you you go ahead, Arthur, and then I'll say something.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, all right. So I've looked up the word affirmation, and it's quite interesting. So Oxford says the action or process of affirming something. And then um, what is it? A well-mined um group, words that communicate your love, appreciation, and respect for another person. And then we've got um affirmations, also called positive affirmations or phrases that when repeated regularly can change negative thoughts and behavior patterns. And then we've got the actual definition, like a proper definition. Uh where was it? A statement. Oh, sorry, the assertion that something exists or is true, the act of affirming or the state of being affirmed, a statement of existence or truth of something. Um and so it's it's interesting, like the different definitions there and in different viewpoints from different perspectives from different associations. Um, and so it's an interesting word, this word affirmation, I think. And because like when you break it down, like what you were saying, Quentin, as well, getting to the root cause, that has nothing to do with affirmations. Yeah, it's yeah, the affirmation really is somebody has an issue, they're affirming they've got an issue and they're asking for help. Ultimately, you know, that's the actual affirmation there. It's not what you advise to be the affirmation because you're just advising.
SPEAKER_03:Right. And this this goes this goes back to what we were talking about a couple of podcasts ago about considerations and what a person's considerations are. So a person has considerations, they don't know how to pull their considerations, or they don't have anybody to pull their considerations. We gave them a tool to do this in that past podcast, uh, either with somebody else or AI or themselves and writing it down on paper. And and therefore you're changing your considerations, whereas as a an affirmation is sort of paving that over andor making a a postulate or a counter-postulate, because why would you need to make another postulate over a postulate if it if the earlier postulate wasn't already functioning? But that postulate is monitored by your considerations. If you have a false postulate in place, then you make considerations in the direction of oh, I can't do that. But then an affirmation is saying, I can do this. You wake up every morning, I can do this. You wake up every morning, I can do this. You get what I'm saying? Is is it is it is it a zebra or is it a horse?
SPEAKER_02:That's that's it's both.
SPEAKER_03:Or is it a horse of a different horse of a different yeah, or is it a horse of a different color? Because you wouldn't have to, yeah, I mean, you know, even if you're OT, you just decide, yeah, and you're you're at knowing us, okay. I'm gonna I'm gonna do this. I mean, I'll give you an example. What I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast is we're looking at turning all of our websites into one one website and doing some incredibly fabulous things with it, both with cryptocurrency and um AI, uh, along with lots of other things. And I make that decision as an OT, and I've already downloaded uh the websites uh onto my computer and everything, so that I can get all of this stuff put under one umbrella with AI. That's that's just affirmation. I can well, see, that's and that's why I bring that up because I didn't affirm it, I just did it. So, what's the difference between I'm I'm gonna do this and we're gonna figure out how to enter all these things in because it's a thing that's in motion that we can alter with AI and our LRH program with all the different major targets, primary targets, conditional targets, and all this stuff. It's in a state of flux. And I'm using this as an analogy that we're gonna do this, this is how we're gonna do it. And as it goes, it changes, but we're still making that we're we're we made that postulate. That's what an OT does. Bam. Okay, we're gonna do these things. You're working on projects, Arthur Quentin's working on projects, I'm working on projects, and we're joining all this stuff together. Now, is that an affirmation, a postulate, a consideration, or all of the above? And is there a counter postulate underneath of it? And do we need affirmations to do that?
SPEAKER_01:I think once it's done, it'll be affirmed. So going back to like your horse or the zebra, right? When I see a zebra, I'll affirm that I've seen it.
SPEAKER_03:Right, right. That's my point. That's my point. Is the affirmation is is getting the product, taking the postulate and putting it into action. So what precedes an affirmation is a postulate andor a counterpostulate. An affirmation really in the physical universe is that confirmation bias of oh, hey, we have AOGP and all of its websites and all of its lectures and all of this and its Dianetics app and all this jazz under one banner uh with cryptocurrency, for example. That's the affirmation. Is it done? That's what a program is for, is to take actions based off of the ideal scene, and then take those actions, put them into motion, and then you have it, and then you affirm, yes, we have a product. Isn't that what an affirmation that is?
SPEAKER_00:That that really is what it should be. I think where for me, um, it gets a little wonky is because I don't I'm a Pisces, right? So I live in the real world and imagination at all at the same time. And so for me, this three-dimensional reality ain't really that real to me, right? What's real to me is what's going on in my head, okay? That's more that's more real to me than me sitting right here looking at you on this this screen, okay. And so I don't have to wait for something to show up in the physical universe to know that it's true, if that makes sense, or to know that it's real.
SPEAKER_03:So so the solution will present itself, basically.
SPEAKER_00:Or the solution already is well no, he already sees it, right?
SPEAKER_03:But he just can't touch it, right?
SPEAKER_00:I just I just haven't encountered it in the three-dimensional world yet. And who cares about three dimensions? That's so boring. Like, who cares about like it's just ugly. Um, I guess my point is is that art said something earlier that it's just kind of what's going on in your mind, and I'm like, okay, but where else is everything going on? That's where everything is going on, everything right now is going on in your mind based on your observation of it. The plant growing right there next to you is growing in your mind, right there next to you. It and you're observing it being it's itself, like so. I say all this to say that for me, um getting to the bottom, the root cause of who I am, as I am, that I am, that's so important to me. It's so important, and that's that's the reason why this process and and the processes that we do on the bridge is so important because it helps me to get to the root of who I am and how I choose to engage this life. So in scripture, there's a um there's a scripture that says, Let the weak say I am strong and let the poor say I am rich. Sounds like an affirmation to me, right? Let the weak say I am strong and let the poor say I am rich. It's affirming two things. It's affirming that the person is poor, and so anybody who walks around saying, I'm rich, I'm rich, I'm strong. If they're the ones saying that, they're also affirming that they're one of the ones that that scripture was talking about. While Jonathan is saying, No, just just be rich, like go and do rich things and make yourself rich, and and you'll be rich. You'll hear and then you affirm that I'm rich because I'm rich, you know.
SPEAKER_01:And so I totally now that's a real affirmation, like that's actually a real affirmation.
SPEAKER_00:It's a true yeah, it's stated.
SPEAKER_01:The second example you gave, exactly, but but the making it true, making it true, right?
SPEAKER_00:Well, be careful with that making, be careful with that making because because then you enter time, you enter time into your postulate, and we know when you think being it true, okay, okay, sure.
SPEAKER_01:Okay, sure.
SPEAKER_03:Be being it true, be do have, yes, and and and and and and that's that's I think that's what you're trying to say, Quentin. And I think Arthur is I am rich, yes. Trying to say that at this at the same time is because it's that be do have thing, uh, and you know, that's the CDEI scale is as well at the top above curious, is uh understand and know. And what an affirmation is trying to do is get you to understand yourself and know. It's it's sort of like um you want to be a bodybuilder, so you you take roids, steroids to be a bodybuilder because it makes you look even bigger than your body could otherwise. But if you're Arnold Schwarzenegger, now at 80 he's having heart problems because he took so many steroids. So you see, I mean you're throwing the baby out with the bathwater because of that sort of thing.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I I I I see it more like this the David is inside the marble slab. Michelangelo just chipped away at the excess, right? Right, and so and so what what it looks like to me is is that the I am that I am is is there. This I am being that I am, and as I go in session, as I continue to go up the bridge, as I continue to chip away at the excess of all this stuff, I become more myself. And along the way, I employ different tools or different mechanisms, different religions, different belief systems, different prayers, you know, whatever people do, and people you know can do whatever they want to do. But each of those things, the idea is to chip away of the acts the excess so that you can then be what's in you truly, authentically. Is that right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that's really well said, actually, really well said.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03:So that's uh go ahead, Quentin.
SPEAKER_00:No, no, that was my point. That just that that that everything everything that's not authentically me has to go away. And and and I and I run at that. I run at it. I don't I don't just say, oh, one day I'll get clear, or one day I'll be such and such, you know. No, I run at it because I want to get this excess off of me. Because this excess is baggage, this excess is heavy, this excess is ugly, this excess is taxing, and I don't want to do that. I don't want the excess. I want I want what's authentically me, and then I I can be. Remember, I said I got that slim body, I got that that's that tight body, that's what I want, and I want all the excess.
SPEAKER_01:Hang on, hang on. If I remember correctly, you gave yourself a hard time about using the word tight body.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_00:I and I and I and I had I said I said an affirmation. I said, I love my body, I love my body, and I love it so nice, so right.
SPEAKER_01:But you went back to the actual affirmation, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:I did I had tight body, I had to go back to yeah, see that's My point. I think that we we're operating in this two-terminal universe, right? That there's a you the idea, the apparency is there's a universe of the mind, and then there's a physical universe that's totally separate and devoid. And I don't know if that's actually true. I don't think it is. I think that what we see is an outworking of our own minds. And if you see, if you see the David in the marble, okay, I didn't see it, Michelangelo. You you might not have saw it. When I walk by a marble slab, I don't see a David in there, but Michael, Michelangelo saw it. Beautiful. And he and he affirmed it with every stroke of that hammer. He affirmed that that there's David in here, and I'm gonna find that mug.
SPEAKER_03:I like that. Yeah, well said. Well, yeah, that's good. Well, well, one of the things that while while we've been talking about this, the and and of course, I'm just observing this in myself, and I've I've observed it in others, and and my mom told me once, she said, Oh John, you just you just go do things. And I'm like, Yeah. Well what's what's wrong with that, mom? But you know, you can't just do that. Um why you can't just go do things, you just decide you're gonna go do something and and and do it, because that's that's to me, that's the antithesis of an affirmation. And this is before I I did my OT levels. Granted, I'd done OT levels last lifetime to into OT2 and then came back now who I am in this meat puppet, and then uh you know, did my OT levels again. But even before then, I just okay, yeah, this is what I'm gonna do, and then and then I just start taking action. And she's you can't do that. And I why? Well, you know, you just you just can't. And for me, it's very difficult to occupy that viewpoint of well, why not? Well, you you need you need you need to research, but that's part of the do, mom. So why do I need an affirmation? You know, it it am I missing something here that that other uh you know, and I think I know what that is, is that their considerations are in the way, you have to confront this, and that's where affirmations come in as sort of a short circuit. And if then go to true loop sub subroutine, if you were dealing with with computer programming that says, if I balk at something, if then go to do this instead of just doing it because you can't do it, so you're putting this this veneer over the top of it that gets you to to believe that you can something, as opposed to you know, uh definition of OT. The definition of OT is the ability to make things go right. Well, if you can do that, why do you need an affirmation?
SPEAKER_00:Is that what I get my point? Yeah, 100%. You know, my friends, my friends often say to me, um, oh, you you could just do things like a light switch, you could just turn it on like a light switch. That's what they say. Like you want to manifest something, you could just turn it on like a light switch. And and I was like, Well, yeah, that if you go into the room and you need light, turn the light on. Like, make make let there be light. That's that's what works for me, you know. Um, but um there's some people in the world that have to pull their water up out of a well. There's some people in the world that have to use a little, y'all remember the old crank pumps, and you gotta pump the water and you gotta pump it about you know 25 times before some little water starts dripping out or whatever. But to me, the affirmation is that pump. It's that uh I know it, I know you in there. I know you in there, I know you, oh, there you go, there it is, and now we got water, right? And so, yes, for some people, right, especially you know, OT past life, OT this life, we're doing our thing, we are operating thetans, living this life in a very, very high at a very, very high level. It is like turning on that light switch, or it is like turning on the faucet and water just flows out, and that's magical to some people, right? And then there's others that have to prime the pump, they have to pump the well, they or you know the little pump thing, or roll the bucket up to try to get their water out, and they get excited because that bucket came up, because the water started flowing out, and I think that as we continue to help people go up the bridge, they'll see that there's so much uh that there's different technology. There's different technology that exists in this world that can get you the results that you want, right? Very very quickly and very, very effectively. And if if you can just allow yourself to avail yourself of that technology, you'll be able to get the water, you'll be able to get the light, and and and the experience of your life will be improved to that degree that you're able to experience that technology in a new way, even as AI comes out. Jonathan, you just said it. You were doing some coding and you turn and you said, and it's like magic. That's what you said. That's the literal word you said, and I laughed. It's like magic, it just came out, you know, and and and modern technology allows us to experience that every single day, and yet there are plenty of people in the world who have never used AI, they've never used a computer, they've never searched on Google. Plenty of people, right? And so I I I really believe that you know the light keeps getting brighter and brighter, and we're experiencing, I believe, an advent of huge realization when it comes to particularly with independent Scientology, and there's so much more to come, guys. Y'all just stay tuned, baby. Stay tuned because all right, I should put the little pinky hole. There's so much more to come. Million dollars. Okay, there's so much more that's coming because the technology, I'm talking about modern technology, computing power, is allowing us to do so much more that will avail so many more people to the way that we can we can um with ALGP. So I just think that this is a great conversation that you use what you need to get to it. If you need a pattern interrupt, use your pattern interrupts. If you need a circuit bypass, because you've been going through it, you've been thinking the same thing. Oh, I can't stand my life, I can't stand this, I ain't got no money. I got let the weak say I am strong and let the poor say I am rich. Because if you need to do that in order to break that habit of thinking, start there and then call me. Call Jonathan, call art, get on a phone call and be like, Jonathan, I don't know why I keep thinking I I I can't afford this. This is something that really I really want it, I really want it, but I can't, I don't think I can afford it. And we'll go in and we'll find that where that come from. Who told you that? What would that right?
SPEAKER_03:Right. Well, and so basically what it comes down to is an affirmation is and to use your analogy, Quentin, is you're priming the pump in order to get the the pressure up to a point to where it can pull the water up through the vacuum of priming the pump, and now you have water that's coming out of the well. And if that's something that that that a person needs to do, then that's something a person needs to do. But but in the same context, then what we're talking about is you don't have to do that for very long if you get in session, learn the data, and you understand it, and somebody says, Well, you can't do that, you go, Yeah, I can. Those are your considerations, they're not mine. And that's that's what this has to do with is that affirmations are necessary to bypass the considerations that you yourself or somebody else has given you that you've basically decided to believe, because you don't have to have those considerations of those postulates. You just have to undo the postulates that are stopping you in the first place. Because just like AI is magic to pretty much doing whatever you want if you were you're doing coding and everything, uh, or answering questions or resolving problems that you never thought you could ever figure out on your own, and you can put in a prompt, and there's the answer right in front of you. That's exactly what auditing and training are for a being. That's right. That's right. Independent Scientology is the AI for yourself. Yeah. And you are you are the AI, you already know the answers. You've just said I I've forgotten them and I'm not that way anymore. I need to affirm that I can get up the bridge. Okay. If you got to do that, I guess you got to do that. But the the best solution is to affirm for a short period of time and get in session and be become part of the independent Scientology uh economy, so to speak, and get this across all of your dynamics, your first, second, third dynamics primarily, and then that'll enter into your fourth and so on. So an affirmation would be okay, uh, I'm gonna do something about this. I'm at a need for change on the awareness scale. That's that's the first affirmation you can make, and then put it into motion.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. When LRH says something can be done about it. That that right there was an affirmation, something can be done about it, and and and that something hasn't been realized yet, or had maybe had not been realized yet. But whatever the problem is that you're experiencing in this world, something can be done about it. And let and that being the affirmation of the the moment, that's fine by me. And and you and you get in on that and you work with that. Something I know I can do something about this, something can be done about this, and you keep working with it, and it'll open up doors for you. And let me tell you how I know affirmations don't work.
SPEAKER_03:So this is this is the the other side of the token, the dichotomy.
SPEAKER_00:Well, because I'm gonna tell you what happened. Uh so early on in my track, and I've talked about this in past podcasts, you guys can go back and listen to it. Early on in my track, I was getting into abusive relationships, right? And so I would get into these abusive relationships, and it was it was you know, back to back, like relationships, plural. And I was getting into these relationships, and I'm like, what is going on? Like, I know I don't deserve to be abused, I know this, right? And yet I kept getting to these abusive relationships. Well, I'm in session, I'm I'm doing some dianetics auditing in session, and as I'm in session, I go into a time when my mother whipped me. She was whipping me with a belt when I was a kid, and so it wasn't lifting. And so my my auditor says, Well, is there an earlier similar? Is there an earlier incident similar to the one you auditing? And so we go back, and immediately I get janked back to a future experience, I'm sorry, a past experience rather, a past experience where I was I stole something, I was a thief, and I was being flogged. If y'all know a flog where they beat you, I was being whipped. Well, while I've been getting whipped, this little boy and this girl, his brother and sister, they come walking in the middle of the top of the square when I'm getting whipped, and the little boy says to his sister, ha ha ha, that's your husband. That's your husband. Says this to the girl, his sister. And she's like, No, it's not, and then they ran off. That was it. That was the whole incident. And he goes, Okay, let's go over it again, and we go over it again. And I'm running this thing, and baby, let me tell you, that was the moment that I decided that husbands beat, partners beat, lovers beat. Lovers will beat you because I was getting beat when the little boy said, That's your husband. And I tell you, and I don't care how many affirmations, I deserve better, and I deserve love, and I love myself, and it's so none of that worked because right after I love myself came a big old fist. You hear what I'm telling you? Okay, yeah, and it wasn't until I resolved the actual postulate that was working in me. I'm telling y'all what I know, not what I read out of a book. What was working in me, that I no longer had to experience that ever again.
SPEAKER_03:And so right, because that was your decision.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that was the decision that that when you're in love, you you get beat. That's just what happens.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:A little girl, evil little girl, a child.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Right. So, like LRH says, if Ayton gets what they postulate, and so to short circuit it, you do this affirmation instead of handle on handling the underlying postulate or postulates wherever it may be on the time track, and people say, Well, you know, I don't remember past lives. And okay, that's fine. We got to get you there first, right? So that your recall is open so you can find this stuff.
SPEAKER_00:Because there was true for you.
SPEAKER_03:Earlier similars on the backtrack that need to be resolved. It might not just be this lifetime. So that that's that's where, if you look at the big picture, that's where an affirmation falls, is it's sort of a band aid to put over something until you can get it handled terminatedly and actually as is it entirely. Because like Calaret says, and I and and Quentin, I know you know the the the axioms um as well as I do, that you know, you you have to create stuff and alter it in the present in order to keep it around. So you've got that create counter-create going on, and and it's that same mechanism that you're using to use an affirmation is you're counter-creating on top of it in order to push it into the future, but it kind of catches up with you if you're not careful, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And it's basically what you're saying, yeah, right, and it and it will catch up with you, and it and it will continue to affect your life until it's resolved because it has no consideration of time. You you you're you you actually are a timeless being, right? Right, you are a timeless being, so you as a being don't have time to they say time heals all wounds. See you next lifetime, tell me about it, yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_03:Um right, send me a letter, right?
SPEAKER_00:Let me let me know how that felt. Um, because because because you're you are a timeless being, and so the time doesn't change anything, you change things for you. You get this, and when you change things for you, you no longer have to be the effect of the thing that's been playing in your life, your experience for however long it's been there, and it could be longer than you think, right? And this is why you know it's interesting because you said it's a band-aid, affirmations kind of serve as a band-aid, um, and there is value to band-aids, but they're not there to that, they they themselves don't heal you, right? The band-aid doesn't heal you, it's it's your own work, it's the immune system, it's that it's that system within you that that does the work to heal you, and that's what you need to apply. If there is a system that can heal you, use that system to heal you. Or LRH talked about um when a person is when a business or person or organization is going through something, he said cope and organize. Remember that right? Tell us about that, Jonathan.
SPEAKER_03:Well, cope and organize, the policy letter just to paraphrase basically states, and it's an OEC volume zero. You can find it in there, and the basic staff hat volume uh is where you cope while you're organizing. You don't just cope, cope, cope, cope, cope. You start say, hey, go put your finger in that dam. You go put your finger in that part of the dam. You go put your finger in that part of the dam. Okay, Bob, now go over to this guy over here on the right and patch that hole. And then these other guys are going to keep their finger in the dam while we patch that hole, and so on, and so forth. And and an affirmation, and and we we continue to use the analog of a band-aid. What does a band-aid do? It covers up a wound so that it can heal. But that doesn't that doesn't mean that the band-aid heals it. That means that the body, the thetan plus the body, heal the wound through the body's own immune system. And even better still, we handle the thetan and what caused them to have that wound in the first place, which was their original postulate that got them to have that accident, those overts, those motivators that made them PTS in order to have that wound in the first place. Because it all comes back to ultimately MUs, misunderstood words, concepts, and symbols, and the person fighting against that and trying to hold their position.
SPEAKER_01:And and it's interesting what you just said there as well, with the misunderstoods, because if you've got a dictionary by your side and actually looking at the definitions of the wood words you're using for your affirmation, you're probably giving the wrong affirmation.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, right, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Like completely, which means your postulate is way, way out. Way out. And so to some degree, be careful what you wish for as well. So you know, or better still, know what you're wishing for.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Exactly. In that in that policy, I'm sorry, go ahead, John. No, go ahead. That's right. Go ahead. I was I was gonna say in that policy letter, September 17th, sorry, September 14th, 1970, cope and organize, LRH says it is perfectly all right to cope. One always must, but one must organize things while he copes. Okay, so it's perfectly all right to cope, but you must, and must is in all caps, one must organize things while he copes. The mounting overload and overwhelm in an area comes entirely from cope, cope, cope without organizing, also. So the mounting overload, if you feel overloaded, if you feel overwhelmed, the mounting overload and overwhelm in an area comes entirely from cope, cope, cope. That's the that's where it comes from. And you've been coping for far too long, and that and you're not organizing your mind, you're not organizing your postures, you're not organizing yourself, you're not organizing your genius, you're not organizing this situation, you're not organizing, and that's why one stays in cope. You're just constantly coping.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Right. Therefore, you need affirmations to deal with the cope without organizing, which means getting auditing. Auditing is organizing, coping is making affirmations. That's right.
SPEAKER_01:And it's and it's interesting because many, many years ago, um, like way pre-scientology, you know, I'm a bit of an explorer and always I always felt like something wasn't quite right. And so I'd seek help with different counselors, different practitioners, so on and so on. And somebody suggested to me um to explore affirmations. And um, and and I started exploring it a bit and and learned about some of these concepts. And then I saw one lady in particular, and she's like, Wow, like she actually said to me, you know, you have such a lot of lack of self-love. And she goes, I want you to do this exercise for me. I want you to sit in front of a mirror every day and just look at yourself in the eyes and repeat to yourself, I love you, as in I'm saying I love you to myself, and um, and so I went along with it. One week passed, I kept exploring um affirmations as I was going, and then another week passed, and then I just found myself not improving. But the real improvement actually occurred where one day I was sitting there in front of the mirror and I was saying this to myself, I look myself in the eyes and I'd be like, I love myself, I love myself, I love you. Um, I was using different phrases, and then the realization really hit me. The real affirmation was that I didn't actually love myself, and once that realization actually came through, that's when things began to really change. It as is it really as well, and not only as is it, but but without using the words, I felt that I didn't love myself, but I didn't acknowledge that I didn't love myself, right? So I went through this whole process just to get to the realization that I didn't love myself, which was the actual affirmation.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that was the cognition.
SPEAKER_01:That was the true affirmation, yeah, that's right. That's the cognition I had from it, and from that day, I stopped you I stopped doing it because now I'm like, well, now I've got work to do. Now I've got somewhere to work work from, so I stopped the affirmation of I love myself because it wasn't working, but it did get me to the point of the recognition of what I truly thought of myself, and that actually gave me a roadmap on out, and it wasn't about kidding myself, you know. The band aid was was over the wound that I couldn't see, and what I couldn't see was the fact that I actually didn't didn't love myself, right? And the band-aid covered it with words like I love you, you are this, you are that. I couldn't actually see the wound under the band-aid. But the moment was the underlying consideration. That's right, and those words being in front of the mirror was the band-aid, but then it actually got me to a point where I was able to remove that band-aid and see what was actually there. And then once I was actually there, I was just like, holy crap, this needs nursing, this needs proper dressing, this needs proper care, this needs this needs proper recovery. You know, scarless. You know, there's there's not gonna be a scar. The skin's the skin's gonna regenerate perfectly, yeah. Without flaws. Um this has been a really beautiful podcast. I really enjoyed this one.
SPEAKER_00:So, so and I and I love that. I think that for me, it was a similar experience where it it didn't work for me, especially in around relationship. It didn't really work for me. And so I had to start doing what's called afformations. Afforum F-O-R-Mations, uh, which is where you ask the question instead of making a statement. So instead of saying, I love me or I love myself, you say, Why do I love myself? Why do I love me? Be careful, be careful. I know I know what you're gonna say, and I totally I I totally know what you're gonna say about that. Um yes, again I say these are things that that were entrees or appetizers to the main deal, right? And and allowing myself to go down this uh uh on this journey of self-discovery, right? To allow myself to go on this journey of self-discovery, it got me to start to look at myself as a way of changing my life versus trying to look at everything and everybody else as the problem and and stop putting myself at effect and more so putting myself at cause, right? And so, yeah, I totally get that.
SPEAKER_03:Right. And I I want to I want to make a point here because there are an awful lot of adventurous people uh who need to understand understand, and and I talked to Quentin about this when he was here in in South Africa about listing questions, what, who, and why questions, which are listing questions per LRH's laws of listing and nulling, and listing and knowing is the most powerful auditing technique that we have. And that's why the L rundowns, and we've talked about this in in other podcasts, but it bears repeating. The L and L rundown stands for listing and knowing. And listing and knowing is where you are finding the item, but you do not want to do that without an auditor, and or if you're doing it solo, you can do it solo if you're at that point, meaning you're above clear and and and it's part of what it is that you're doing in the OT levels. Uh, it can be done in other ways when it's properly CS'd and needs to be, but asking yourself what who or why questions is going to generate more bypass charge because you don't have a meter in front of you and you you aren't going to get and give yourself the correct item. And that's why it's important to be careful if one was doing affirmations, a what, who, or why can get you an out list, which bypasses charge in your case and the composite case. And as LRH says, there is no more concentrated hell than in an outlist, and all ARC breaks stem from miswithholds, which also has to do with out lists, believe it or not. I've never said this in a podcast before, but this is part of that full stack from misunderstood words on up all the way to ARC breaks, outlists are in there as well. Because if let's put it this way, if you need to do a what, who, or why question in in the context of what Quentin was saying, there's something in there that's a held down five that you're trying to resolve, or you wouldn't be asking the question in the first place, would you?
unknown:Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:Right. Because you're searching for something that shouldn't be. Right. And the only way to resolve that at the lower levels, and even on the OT levels, is if you're set up properly, you're not asking yourself those questions. So what I'm saying is is is I'm not invalidating what Quentin is saying or anything like that, but one has to be careful with what who or why questions with oneself and others, because you're going to be bypassing charge, and you need to understand that that concept and those concepts. And when you do, especially if you're dealing with uh people you care about, friends, relatives, significant others, brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, aunts, uncles, grandparents, what have you, any being in a body, is you have to be careful with that stuff because you can really bypass charge with somebody. Now, I'm not saying you can't say, What do you want for dinner? Okay, that's different. But when you start getting into the intrinsic core principles with a person, you need to be careful with that. And that's that's where affirmations and a lot of this new age stuff goes, is it it asks questions, but it doesn't get the right item. And so you're creating a persistency of altar isness to a point where you well, just like what Arthur said, be careful what you wish for, because you you might just get it, and the outcome might be completely different than you want. And you make a hard left turn to Albuquerque instead of heading to Damore.
SPEAKER_00:I yeah, and I I I've and I've had to learn that, Jonathan, and thank you for sharing that. Because when you told me about this when I was in South Africa at the spiritual retreat, um, I I needed to hear that because I think a lot of times in past relationships and flows, I would ask, like, why do you act like that? or why that, you know, whatever whatever the case may be, right? I would throw these these questions out there, not understanding that that truism that um, you know, when you ask outless questions, um, it can bypass charge. And things would just get crazier and crazier and crazier, you know. Um, so can you ask how questions?
SPEAKER_03:How well this and interesting that you asked this because this leads back to the podcast on considerations.
SPEAKER_00:Uh huh.
SPEAKER_03:Oh, that's right. Remember how we on What was the question? Remember how we unlocked the consideration? Right, right, right. Remember how we asked? Okay, so okay, tell me about that. Okay, tell me about that. Okay, tell me about that. But I not once in that podcast did I say what, who, or why.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. You're absolutely right. Yeah. Okay, good. Because because now I've learned when I'm in a uh a two-way con with somebody or whatever, instead of saying, you know, what who or why questions, I'll say, tell me about that person, or tell me about da-da-da, or tell me about you know your relationship, or tell me about I won't say, you know, what happened in or what nope.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, right. So because that that's that's the dangerous thing, too, is you have to be careful. And LRH talks about this in in uh the two-way calm references, is that sometimes two-way calm, two-way communication with somebody can generate an outlist, and that's how you go about it, is the way that we did this when we were talking about considerations, and we stay outside of that so that we don't bypass charge and not handle it. So that's that's the best way to go about that. That get that keeps you outside of the what who why questions and affirmations and uh affirmations and all that is one needs to be careful because then you're gonna need a repair session to handle that out list, and that pushes you off into some other direction that you don't want to be, and then you know you have a boulder fall on your house, and you're like, that boulder fell on that on my house. No, you made the boulder fall on your house because you took a left turn at Albuquerque. Now getting somebody to to realize that at the lower levels is is going to be more than they can take, and they might air a sea break with with you. But in listening to this podcast, I hope that our listeners understand that this is the reality, and that which happens to you, you cause for whatever reason. We just need to figure out uh why you caused it without asking a why question. I was just saying, yeah, yeah, yeah. Right, yeah, right. You have to handle it, you have to handle it with auditing because the thetan knows themselves, and that's not it. Is not for me or the the guys in this podcast is for the thetan to realize themselves, and all the auditor does is direct the the attention of the PC in that area that shows up with charge on the meter, and then they decide it for themselves. We never ever ever evaluate for the PC. They figure that out for themselves because they know, and this goes right back into the zip code of affirmations and an affirmation. Does that make sense? So, you know, I mean you there has to be some some user directions on the container for this stuff to be able to understand the best way to go about it is to get up the bridge and everything. And if you need an affirmation for a short period of time, that's fine, because you need a leg up over the fence so you can get to the other side and get in session. Okay, that's fine. But the thing is that we're gonna have to go back and unwind that too at some point in the session, as well as it it'll come up, and LRH says at some point you have to audit out the auditing because auditing is other determined until the the the pre-OT decides I'm the one that decided to have that stuff happen in order to get myself to convince myself of what I already knew. Let that sink in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I love this. I really, really do love this. So go ahead. I was just gonna finish out this reference to LRH, uh, the Cope Cope Organize reference. He says so cope by all means, but don't forget to organize a little each time you get a chance. The end product of cope is drown. The end product of organize is freedom. LRH.
SPEAKER_03:I I couldn't put it better myself within the context of this podcast and affirmations. Period. So we hope you gotten a lot out of the yeah, we hope you gotten a lot out of this podcast, and and uh it's it's a lot to take in and understand. Uh I would suggest that you listen to some of the last five or six podcasts that we've done and and and put it in context of all of those podcasts, and uh maybe even re-listen, re-listen to some of them to get a better understanding of this, uh, to really get up the the CDEI scale from that from curious to understand and know. And then you will know uh that you know, which is the definition of Scientology, knowing how to know. It's just getting yourself to know that, not not be leave it, but be know. So for Quentin and Arthur, we hope you've enjoyed this podcast, and we will see you in the next installment in the next day or two. Namaste, and we love you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.