Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
Did you know Scientology the Subject and The Church of Scientology are two completely different things? Find out why and what the difference is and how it can help you. Topics range from Independent Scientology, solving life's problems, past lives, secret government, metaphysical, Para-Scientology, UFOS/UAPS, ghost hunting, spirituality, and a lot more! Come check us out!
Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE12EP8- Independent Scientology and the Anatomy of Traps
What if the things that dazzle you most are the very things that keep you stuck? We pull apart the mechanics of entrapment—how curiosity, rewards, and confusion combine to fix your attention and quietly shrink your choices. From gossip that hijacks your focus to ornate spaces that feel powerful but dull your awareness, we examine the subtle baits that turn into commitments, obligations, and ultimately the feeling of no escape.
We share a clear framework for recognizing traps: N‑theta (confusing, destructive communications), enmest (enturbulated ,matter, energy, space and time=MEST), and the way spaces can hold residues of past events that “play back” when activated. Layered on top are deeper confusions—flipped dichotomies like love as hate and good as bad—that live below awareness and make sticky situations feel irresistible. You’ll learn to spot the slide from curiosity to desire, agreement to commitment, obligation to confusion, and how to interrupt that drift before it hardens into a cage.
The practical takeaway is simple and powerful: a trap ends the moment you see it. Once exposed, it becomes a problem—and problems can be solved. We walk through ways to reclaim attention units, re‑imbue your environment with intention, and use auditing to discharge the charge that keeps old patterns alive. Whether your trap is a relationship dynamic, a work culture, or a schedule that runs you, you’ll leave with tools to turn glamour into clarity and pressure into choice.
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Hi, and welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast brought to you by AOH-gp.org and in independent sci uh gosh college of independent Scientology.com. I'm here with Quentin Stroud and Arthur Mudakis. This is season 12, episode 8. And what's the what's the title we came up with for this one, Quentin?
SPEAKER_00:We're talking about Traps. Trap the Anatomy of Traps.
SPEAKER_02:Traps. That's right. This will be a really good one. Uh Quentin's done his homework on this, and we're gonna get started. How are you guys?
SPEAKER_00:Doing fantastic. Yeah, Arthur and I came up with this because we were having a conversation, and not to go too much down a rabbit hole, but in the conversation, we basically was just talking about like stuff that you know you desire, stuff that you want, stuff that you, you know, things in life, whatever it is that you kind of want. And when you kind of when you want it, you look at the thing and be like, oh, that's a trap. And so I told Arthur, I was like, oh man, I said, yeah, but then you know that's a trap, right? That's a trap. And he's like, Yeah, it is. And we just kind of kind of started going out of this rabbit hole of what like what is a trap. So we're gonna dive into that today, and I think it's gonna be really interesting. And when you look around your life, as you're listening to this podcast, when you look around your life, see what really is there and what's keeping you, quote unquote, stuck, what's keeping you in it, and you're gonna see how this whole thing unfolds as we get go along. So, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So LRH mentions uh that he basically spoke extensively about traps, mechanisms, and the anatomy of entrapment. So we're gonna proceed with that, and let's define a trap, Quentin.
SPEAKER_00:Yes. So according to the tech dictionary, it says, well, it uses the word entrapment. So it says entrapment is the opposite of freedom. A person who is not free is entrapped. He may be trapped by an idea, he may be trapped by matter, he may be trapped by energy or space or time, or he may be trapped by all of them. The more thoroughly a person is trapped, the less free he is. He cannot move, he cannot change, he cannot communicate, he cannot feel affinity and reality. Death itself could be said to be man's ultimate entrapment. For when a man is totally entrapped, he is dead. And so when we talk about entrapment, we're talking about these barriers, these things that hit us, these things that are there, and they keep you from being able to move or to change or to communicate or to even feel, which I think is really interesting. These are traps.
SPEAKER_03:When we were talking about it, um, the somatics that go with it, all the potential somatics that can go with it as well. Because in my case it was the recognition of a somatic that feared me moving in towards something else when when you brought up the trap.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. And and it and it takes you into a whole different direction.
SPEAKER_03:Oh man, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And so when we look at oh go ahead.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, go ahead. Oh, well I was gonna say, I mean, you know, you know when you start heading in a different direction that you've probably run into a a barrier that is part of a trap, so to speak.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. Well you when you try to go in the other direction. Well, I was just gonna say because because when when you look around life, uh obviously for those of you who have not heard of the term in theta, right? N theta, E-N-T-H-E-T-A. N theta is basically um interbulated theta or interbulated life, interbulated thought. Uh, it says it especially refers to communications, which based on lies and confusions, are slanderous, choppy, or destructive in an attempt to overwhelm or suppress a person or group. So this is interesting because when a being is mired in in theta, this could be gossip, this could be anger. How many times do we see like reality TV shows or gossip columns or you know, TMZ or whatever, whatever, and all this stuff, all this in theta that's going around, slanderous, he says, destructive, choppy, right? And when a person is flowing out in theta or surrounded by in theta, it starts to entrap them. Well, then that can lead to inmest. Now we don't talk a lot about in mest a lot, but in mest is interbulated messed, messed being matter, energy, space, and time. And so interbulated mess, I'm just reading here, it says it's considered to be confused and interbulated, and is referred to in messed. Mest in a life form is an orderly array, and I'm trying to avoid big words here, but he basically goes on to say how when you're dealing with this interbulated mess, confusion of the physical universe around you. Look at your home, look at your car, look at your body, look at your face, look at your teeth, look at your hair, look at your look at look at the things that's that's the matter, energy, space, and time. Look at just for me, scheduling. Wait a minute, I just caught on something. Time scheduling. It's interpolated sometime, and it gets all wonky because I have so many flows, so many things going on, and that becomes interpolated. That could be a trap, y'all. That could be a trap.
SPEAKER_02:Do you see this? Yeah, well, I I think it's it's good good to define how something becomes in interbulated messed, and mest or interbulated theta. I think we should probably clear that up a little bit, where you have n thest and n mest and n theta. I said and n thest and femest is is something becomes interbulated. And and and a a a good example of that is because as thatans heard the axioms, we imbu maybe we need to look up the word imbue. Arthur, can you look up the word imbue I M B E one second?
SPEAKER_03:Okay, inspire or permeate with it comes. That's interesting. So from the late Middle East, um, in the sense saturate from French, moistened, from Latin to uh path particle of imbure, moisten.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so it's so we saturate with you permeate with it, you permeate it with whatever that feeling is, whatever that quality is, you saturate it.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna take a hard left turn here. I'm gonna take a hard left turn here, and this is something that has been proven time and time again through electronic mediums of spaces, and I'm gonna um stick with me here now for our listeners, uh where ghost hunters have gone into interbulated places in the physical universe. Uh and you know, you can go as grandiose or as benign as somebody's living room or a castle or uh any any particular place burned down, yeah. An old hospital, auditorium, uh yeah, jails, whatever. Okay, and what what they found is is that that that they found that there is a residual, a an in an imbuent, residual latent recording of things that have occurred in that space, in that mess that is interbulated. And Quentin, I'm sure, can can give examples of this and stuff that he he's seen in what he does as well, and Arthur, both, and myself.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:That that's not that that that shows this. And sometimes you say, well, the place is haunted, and that there's a being behind it that is doing this, when in fact that can or cannot be the case, because that if it's a being, it's interbulated theta, that's n theta, whereas you have n mest that is interbulated, wait for it, by theta, and the mest is recording it, and it is still there because there is energy that has been imbued, yeah. There's energy that has been imbued into the mess, matter, energy, space, and time, that then plays back as a recording when it is activated by theta. Now, this we're gonna go even further on, we're gonna go even further on this because this parallels what they've just recently found out about spooky physics. This is really interesting because spooky physics, the way the way this works is they could split an atom, take one half, leave it here, take the other half, and put it somewhere else, whether it's on planet Earth or in space or whatever, and when they they affect that half of an atom here on Earth, and wherever the other half is that they're keeping track of, the atoms respond in kind, unilaterally. Entanglement theory, yeah. Entanglement theory that is and that's what this is is it's quantum entanglement. So they're now discovering things that LRH LRH talked about 70 years ago. Yep, or even a little bit, yeah. Isn't that interesting? So this is a side rail, but this is what N mest and n theta are. Okay, so the two of them being entangled, theta and mess, messed and theta, you run into this and go, you know, what just happened? Why why all of a sudden has this become a trap? This is part of that, and and when you see this, it's it's an indication of N theta and or n messed one or both.
SPEAKER_00:Well, well, and also too, because it it it it captivates, and I'm I'm gonna use the word loosely, but fascinates people at times, depending on where you are on the tone scale. Like, have you ever I think you say it all the time, Jonathan? Uh, everybody loves a train wreck, right? Everybody loves a train wreck. And so this whole idea that the that by curiosity, fascination, uh uh, uh, uh, whatever this feeling is, and they just want to figure it out or look at it or go dig into it or whatever. I when I watch some of these you know movies, you know, you could watch a horror movie, and somebody will hear a noise, and they'll be like, Sally, is that you? And then they'll go looking for Sally. Sally ain't said nothing. They'll go curiously, you know, they say curiosity killed the cat. They'll go curiously looking for Sally. Sally, are you there? And then next thing you know, she dead. Right, right. Listen, Sally, if you don't say that to the three seconds, I'm out of here.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and and and that that falls in line with what what you see in the US with uh the National Enquirer. And so they they put these. I don't even know if they still have it there, but they used to. When you you went to the grocery stand and you're checking out and everything, there's the National Inquirer, Lisa Marie Presley, blah blah blah blah blah. M Theta, M Theta, M Theta, N Mess, MS, N MES, gossip, gossip, gossip. And that is a trap. They're trapping you with a an alteration, an alter is to get your attention to go, what did Lisa Marie say? Why did Lisa Marie die? Oh, you know, and and so you're trapped because it's a mystery. A Thetan loves a mystery. Now it's important to also note, and this is something that just occurred to me that that needs to be mentioned is what has happened on the back trap track is these traps have been installed into the reactive mind. What makes up the reactive mind? That package that pretty much everybody on this planet and in this sector of the galaxy per LRH, and I found this to be true myself, and Quentin's about to find out about it himself, Arthur soon as well. That these traps have been laid in as goals, problems, mass. White is black, trains are planes. This sort of thing. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give any confidential information here, but these traps have been laid in to where the dichotomies have been switched. Good is evil, evil is good, love is hate, hate is love. These are the traps that have been laid in that you operate off of every day as a non-clear and as a non-OT, especially with the composite case, which we've done other podcasts on, we won't get into here now. But the point is that the reason why we're seeing these traps, these n mess, these end thetas in present day, present time is because they've been already laid in because there's a prior confusion there that says love is hate, hate is love, black is white, white is black. So you're you're drawn to it because you're like, wait a minute, this doesn't make any sense. Why did she just kick me in the shin in fourth grade and she loves me? Oh my god.
SPEAKER_03:So you say that that somebody's set a trap.
SPEAKER_02:Uh yeah, back on the backtrack, these societies put this in there because in order to control someone, you have to lie to them. We've we've talked about this LRH datum before. And so what you do is you confuse them with a subjective trap through pain, drug, hypnosis, whatever the society was using that they laid this stuff in, because if they made you small and gave you something else to do, you got out of their way, and they could go on doing the things that they wanted to do until their ethics catches up with them, and those societies ended up turning into dust and not even that that don't exist on the backtrack anymore. But what they did and gave to you that you agreed to and said, I'm gonna take this on, but wait a minute, I'm gonna hold my position, I'm gonna take this on back and forth. This is what causes a rock slam on the meter. This is the valence you see it. This is the valence switching. Yes, no, no, yes, yes, no, yo, yes, I can't, I can again slap, slap, slap, bang, bang, bang. And it's it's so fast you can't even track it with your eye. That is what's happening. So when you get to where we're at now in these meat puppets known as bodies, and we're going around and we're hearing this and doing that and seeing this, and all of a sudden we've created and agreed to going into some trap that was created by another Thetan that has the same confusion as you do, hilarity ensues.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and that and that each trap, and and we're just gonna take a moment to break down because because that that was that's exactly where we're going with this ultimately. But taking a moment to break down um the anatomy of a trap, like every trap has to, it has to give you something you want, right? There has to be some level of curiosity. In fact, uh Ellerate says here uh in on Theta Traps, this is uh in the um tech dictionary, it says Theta Traps, how can you trap a Thetan? By curiosity, by giving him awards and prizes, by retractor screens, by mock-ups, by ornate buildings, which he will enter until to be electronic, electronic down. By some means, the Thetan is reduced from knowing to a colonist, a slave, a missed body. All theta traps have one thing in common. They use electronic force to knock the Thetan into forgetting, into unknowing, into effect. Their purpose is to rid the area of those nuisances, they just said it, so you leave them alone. The purpose is to rid the area of those nuisances, the Thetan who cannot be policed and gain personnel, always the former, not always the latter. And so the idea here is that if we can give you these awards, if we can give you these dopamine hits, if we can give you these prizes, if we can give you these ornate buildings, the first thing I thought about, the first thing I thought about was the White House, or I thought about you know the political theater, I thought about the Coliseums, or I'm sorry, the stadiums, they call them stadiums now. They used to call them colosseums back in Roman time. And you walk in and all these big roar, electronics, and sound and you know, light lights, and it's all there to make you dumber, to make you a colonist, to make you a slave, to make you just get so fixated, right? And and and giving you enough entertainment to keep you placated, to keep you out of the way, you know, yeah, to get rid of those nuisances, right?
SPEAKER_02:So, reason why I said ding ding ding ding ding ding ding is because we see this within our own zone of interest in the current churches of Scientology.
SPEAKER_01:Look at the beautiful ideal org, look at all these wonderful touch screens that we have and the beautiful gold filigree, and look at these beautiful chairs your butt will rest on when you sit on course and we give you our own dictionary. But wait, it's our dictionary, and you can't use dictionaries anymore that actually have the English language in them because we're going to define them all for you. But in this beautiful palace that is yours, yours, yours.
SPEAKER_02:That's what they're doing.
SPEAKER_00:I did it on purpose.
SPEAKER_03:But it's funny because like um, I think a lot of us, um, like even outside of looking at the tech and fast tracking these things and being able to do to discover them a lot sooner. I think a lot of people in their older age kind of start to realize this when it's a bit late, too. Like they start to to question their life and they start to question um their own existence, but at a much later stage, right? Right, and then they start to wonder, hang on, what did I miss for the last 40-50 years? Yeah, um I've been to this rodeo. Yeah, yeah. And that's that's just on the street, like just all of us, whatever it is, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:But it's it's it's a trap. I mean, we've literally, literally, on I can count on more than two hands that had with the people that we've had come to us and say, Yeah, but the org is so nice.
SPEAKER_00:I literally just I just had that conversation with a sister uh in in Nevada, and she was like, it's just so beautiful. When you go there, it's just so nice, and you just thought you just want to be there. She's like, You just want to be there.
SPEAKER_02:Right, and then that's when you sound like Admiral Akbar and Star Wars, and you go, It's a trap.
SPEAKER_04:Right.
SPEAKER_00:And I'll and I'll be and I'll be like, I said, and I said to her, I just go ahead, right?
SPEAKER_03:Sounds like canceling griddle. Yeah, come on in, have a sweet, have a sweet. Take as many flolies as you like.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, never mind the oven in the corner. Don't worry, I'm gonna beat you.
SPEAKER_00:And I said to her, I said to her, I want to be in my office, I want to be in my home, I want to do remote auditing, I want to be able to get up out of the bed, go get me some breakfast, come in to my office, close the door, get in my chair, put the cans in, get in session with my auditor. I want to be able to do that. And when I when I get my wins, when I go like exterior, when I have this amazing experience and session, I can get up and I can create and I can paint and I can do my thing. I can go downstairs and walk around the block and get some space and I can have a wonderful day. I don't need to be in a building that I'm paying out the butt for just to look pretty. No, I don't need that. I pay I pay you to get off of my house.
SPEAKER_03:You make a really good point there because, like what you were saying before, John, like around um the quantum aspect of like rooms and spaces holding memory, like you're doing this in your own home. So while you're changing, your home is also changing. It's like you're putting new input into your own space, uh, as opposed to not wanting to be in it in your home. Like I used to do a lot of, I'd do a lot of a lot of people would come to me and then I started like to get their spiritual help. But then I started realizing like after they'd see me, they'd be great, but then they'd go into their own environment again, and then things would start creeping in. So I started going to their homes and then getting them to reconnect that space as well, to get out of their own traps that they've created in their own space. That's why I think auditing from home is is way more powerful. Um, because while you're creating your being and shifting it, you're also shifting the chain shifting your home as well, or the space you're in.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Well, and you also have to take in consideration when you're getting auditing in a modern day uh corporate Scientology org, they're recording the session, which is nowhere in in tech bulletins at all. So you have to you have to ask yourself, is this already interbulated theta and interbulated messed? Well, that's for you to decide. I mean, I could give you my answer. But the you know, the the the thing is is that no matter where you go, there you are, it's either interbulated mest and theta or it's theta and messed, and messed is persisting because there's a lie behind it. So you have always have that as an underlying theme and an extant principle that you need to be aware of. I don't know if it's true or not, but it it has been said by the church that the reason why they bought the free wins is because LRH said we want we want people to go out and do OT8 out on the water, out in the open ocean, because they're off the beaten path of society where you have this create, counter-create, create, counter-create, create, counter-create, create, counter-create, which causes it to persist and also interbulates the mess, that also interbulates the theta, and vice versa. I I cannot prove, deny, or confirm that he actually said this, given the history of the OT8 materials and all that, which is a whole other podcast. Um, but if he did say that, that would ring true because the nature of this universe, which we've talked about in previous podcasts, is part of the problem that these societies that laid in this interbulation, these traps, black is white, white is black, is because they found that there is so much life in the messed universe with theta being imbued into it, that they found themselves counter-created to the point to where they had to stop all of the other thetans that were counter-creating them. So they said, okay, we'll just confuse the living daylights out of them, and they'll be out of the way. Well, that in itself is interbulating theta, which is then interbulating mass, and then you get what we've got here on earth.
SPEAKER_00:This is so interesting, so interesting. And let me just say this for the record, and for anybody listening to this podcast, we've because we've talked about a number of big concepts so far, and there's still more. But so one, Art just made mention about auditing at home and how he sees the value of being able to audit in your own space, remote auditing, because you actually are also shifting and changing your own space, your own mess, right? So you you guys know that I grew up, you know, Jehovah's Witness. Those of you who listen to the podcast, I grew up Jehovah's Witness, and we used to go, of course, door to door, knocking on people's doors, talking about, you know, the Bible or whatever. And we used to do these in-home Bible, we would offer in-home Bible studies. The reason for that, and this was actually talked about extensively in the Jehovah's Witness meetings and stuff like that, is because when you go into the purpose person's home and you're sharing the good news, they would say you're sharing the good news with them in their home, it actually brings happiness to their home. This is actually what was said in that modality, right? So when Arthur mention about this, about auditing from a from an independent Scientology perspective and remote auditing and being able to be in your home, your home actually gets in order, your life gets in order. You start to bring more order to your own existence, and you don't put that energy to some other organization or some other space that's not your own. You don't have to do that anymore. We now have the capability of auditing you remotely where you can set your space up the way you want it. Have a mini pillow, I got pillows because I like pillows in my chair. I got pillows, I got my can, I put a little towel down so that my hands don't have to sit on the desk or whatever. I make my space feel so good for me when I go in session because I want to make sure that this is my space. You know, this is this is what I've created. The other thing that Jonathan just mentioned was you just talked about how uh uh create, counter-create, create, counter-create, and you talked about how all the confusion that exists in our lived experience in our world, and this is so real, and there are societies and there are spiritual modalities that talk about this confusion that exists. If you ever studied the Tower of Babel in In the Bible, the Tower of Babel, and it literally says, and God confused the languages in in Theta. God confused the languages in Theta, and they went away sad. And all the people went away sad to their various parts of the world. They couldn't even talk anymore. They couldn't even think anymore. They went away sad. This is real stuff. This is what people when we talk about this stuff from a Scientological perspective, with Scientologies and our words and stuff like that. Listen, the stuff that LRH discovered was phenomena that he studied throughout multiple religions around the world, throughout multiple spiritualities and practices around the world, and said, Let's break this down from a 20th century perspective so that we can understand this thing and then make it right. And that's what we do now, which I love.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And auditing is disinterbulating theta. Word clearing is disinterbulating theta. Theta is theta the solver, not theta the problem. MEST is theta is messed the problem imbued by theta. Okay, it's not the other way around. It's you and the messed universe. It's not the messed universe and you. Okay, so if you're you're auditing at home, just as an example, because that was the context, is if you're auditing at home, you're going to be disinterbulating your universe because it's your create based on top of a lot of other create, counter-create. You put your stuff in one place, somebody else puts it there, or maybe somebody breaks in and takes your stuff, breaks some of your stuff, and now it's interbulated by their theta. Or maybe you're a really theta person, you're neat and tidy, your order versus disorder is low, and so that everything's orderly and everything like that. So you have a theta environment. Well, that's going to help your auditing sessions as well. But it doesn't matter where you go. I mean, there the when I was in my hometown, there were areas I would go into, and I had immediately the hairs would stand up on my arm and back of my neck and everything. And when I was a kid, and I was like, what is going on here? And this was literally, literally underneath, and in the area of Worlds of Fun, which is the amusement park in Kansas City. It's like a small version of Disney, Disneyland that was built in the 70s. Guess what's underneath in the limestone caves beneath that amusement park? This was the area. I went to middle school in that area, lived in that area when I was in my uh 30s. This whole area has an underground military base underneath it. I kid you not. It's interbulated, yes, it's interbulated that uh theta by and for theta through messed. And you'll find you'll go into certain areas wherever you are on the planet. There are areas that are uninterbulated, there are areas that are not interbulated. But see, this is the bigger theme of the podcast is traps. But the thing is, is you you as a thate know if this is something you should get into or not, and to the degree that you've gone up the bridge, is to the degree that you are aware when something is a trap. But even if you are, and this is what goes back to what we talk about in the podcast all the time, and and you hear it all the time tone scale, tone scale, tone scale, chart of human ability, all that stuff. Well, that is telling you to the degree that somebody is interbulated theta and has interbulated mess. The higher tone they are, the less interbulated they are, the less interbulated their mess, the less they agree with the interbulation and are not bothered by it. They are unencumbered by it. So, but the thing is, is how you can get trapped is that when you have affinity for another person, another group, gosh, that org is beautiful. I really love the tech, but I just can't stand the way they pressure me. But that org, man, who agreed with it?
SPEAKER_00:You did. Yeah, you get into it. And it and it and a trap, a trap, a trap locks your attention in place. And you know, it's interesting because you just talked about affinity for other people. And if you really think about it, when you get into a relationship, and if that relationship is flowing with n theta, right? When we talked about what in theta it was again, it was it's that it's that uh lower band, and you know what, you know when it's there, you know when you feel it, you know what it is, right? It's that lower band of communication, that lower band of of you know uh um choppy and and poor communication, uh uh this uh disinter this not disinterpolate it. What's the one I'm looking for? I'm I'm gonna say disgusting energy, like you can feel it, it doesn't feel right to your spirit. That's how I would say it. The disingenuousness. Yeah, it just it just it just doesn't feel right to your spirit, and then what ends up happening is because of the affinity, because of the like I just said before, you get into a trap for something that you want. I want this relationship, I want this love, I want this connection, I want this person, even, and yet it's interbulated, yet it's destructive per LRH. I'm not making this stuff up, and so you get trapped in it, and it reduces one's ability to choose. This is what a trap does. It reduces your ability to choose because now you're not operating with your own freedom of choice, you're now uh uh uh entranced by it, you're now so in love, or so captivated, or so nah, mm-mm. Get out the trap. I'm telling you now. Yeah, you but you but you make the decision, and and and it breaks you down. I think uh um the curiosity is like it says curiosity, desire, agreement. This is the scale, curiosity. So think about a trap. Huh, what is that? Where's Sally? You know, curiosity, then desire. You want something, then agreement. You just you agree to be there, then commitment to it, then it goes down into obligation to it, then it's lower would be a confusion about it, and then lastly it would be no escape, which is death, right? No escape, and so you go down this dwindling spiral where you get into this place where you're confused about it, and you get into this place where there's no escape from it. This is a trap, this is the anatomy of a trap. And and and and we're giving you this because we want you to take a look at your own existence, take a look at your own your own decisions, take a look at your own life and ask yourself, where uh do I have fixed attention? Where why can I stop thinking about that? Why can't I stop talking about that? Why can't I stop? You know, my you know what I say, I say a blocking is a blessing. I block them in a minute. Uh oh, I I block people fast they can blink. Because I'm not gonna be trapped. I'm not gonna be trapped by it. And you and you have to protect your own free thought, your own free attention units. I hope I hope I'm making sense to people. You gotta protect your own free attention units because your free attention units is what gives you power, power to choose. Yeah, exactly. Your free attention units is what gives you power, power to choose, power to to exercise or or get uh results, power to do what you need to do, and you got to keep those things free so you can be yourself, right?
SPEAKER_02:And and what I was saying earlier about if you've already been given lies that you're operating off of that are below your awareness, you could see how you could fall into a trap now because you fell into a trap before, and way back on the backtrack, you fell into the trap of saying, you know what, yeah, I'll take one of those reactive minds. You know what, I'll take two. Hey, that's a good deal, or because you were trying to hold your position, and it and like El RH says, he says it isn't it isn't the implants that are aberrative. The aberrativeness is that you're trying to hold your position, and somebody is trying to push you off it. That's really the trap.
SPEAKER_00:Really, wow, yeah. That's it. I I I decided I decided this somewhere along my track. I decided this, and I'm trying to hold my position to what I said I was gonna do, be, have, whatever it is, good, bad, or indifferent. I decided this, and something's trying to push me off, and I'm gonna hold firm to this. I know I don't need to be in this situation, but by God, I'm gonna make it work.
SPEAKER_02:Right. I I decided it, and I can hold my position, I can be right. Okay, all right, and this is what we have auditing for this, okay. We have auditing for this. It's called the CS uh 37R rundown. Okay, what what could you what could you continue doing? It's part of L11, it's not confidential, it's in the CS series, and it's it it it handles a person because a thetan can continue to do anything as long as they want if they choose. And thetans, let me tell you, thetans choose a lot, and this is what we're talking about is these are traps. But the thing is, ultimately, ultimately, no matter what, who, where, when, how anybody has said anything to you, you decided the trap. Because you're holding your position, and you can change your position very, very simply. Get in session with your auditor, get in session with me, get in session and find out what it is because it's the opposite flow. That's how this this this 37 RCS series operates. Is what could you continue to do? It's that's how you unlock it. Because then when you say I can continue to do that forever, uh, you know, yeah, gosh, you know, I don't have to do that forever. You I mean, you remember that, Quentin, on L11.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, uh gosh, I'm laughing because because let me tell you something. Doing your L's, for those of you who are the L's is stands for listing and nulling, and L11, um, doing your L's, you blow so much case, so much charge, you become such a big being again, and the freedom that comes after the L's, the freedom, because you're no longer locking yourself into being small. That's what the L's did for me. I'm just speaking from my own personal experience. You're no longer locking yourself into being small, you're no longer locking yourself into a fixed way of existing or whatever that is for you. And so doing the L's, man, when you just said that, I was like, I just started laughing because it's like I can continue, I can keep doing this thing.
SPEAKER_02:No, I don't want to do that, right? Because I mean, you you know, and this is within the context of the podcast as far as traps, but like LRH talks about, okay, so we're looking at valences, and valences means I've taken on somebody else's behavior other than my own. So I'm caught in a trap because if I can't beat them, I should join. Wait a minute, I joined them. Yep, that's where the open comes in, and that's where you start to form a trap right there, because that scale, okay. Curiosity, what if I was like Hitler? Hmm, what you know, maybe I want to be like Hitler. Desire, you know what? Maybe he's right. Agreement. Oh, wait, I'm gonna join the SS commitment. Commitment. Oh, wait, I saw something I didn't like, but I'm obligated now, and they'll shoot me if I stop now. They're killing Jews. Oh my god, confusion. What do I do? This is awful. These guys are murderers. I didn't sign up for this. Gosh, I can't leave now because they really will kill me. I have to withhold. Boom. No escape, no escape.
SPEAKER_00:How about that? And that's and go ahead. And that and that's life. That that that is this life, that is this messed body experience as a being. And if you go that that entire scale, curious, desire, agreement, commitment, obligation, confusion, no escape. And most people are operating somewhere on those lines, obligation, confusion, no escape, operating somewhere on those lines where it's like, how do I I can't? This just is my life. This is it. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta keep taking care of these kids. I gotta keep doing this. I gotta keep, I gotta go to that job. I gotta gotta gotta gotta. Right.
SPEAKER_02:The people, yeah, the people that won't won't amend, and they're like, you know, yeah, you know, you know, maybe the Scientology stuff works, and then they start to find out more stuff about it, and they're like, wait a minute, I'm gonna have to change. I'm gonna have to change. And I'm I'm I'm I mean, I can't be out ethics anymore, and I I can't I can't manipulate people and I can't use them anymore. And and well, wait a minute. I'll you know what, this Scientology stuff is no good because well, then I can't be myself, and I I I can't I can't do all the things that I like to do to people and to myself, and and then I wouldn't have a game anymore. Oh my god. So they they never get out of the valence, so they never get terminal velocity, critical mass to do anything other than what it is they're doing because they're so caught up in agreement and commitment, because a solution to a problem that becomes a future problem, a further problem, that is part of the valence that they are stuck in and they cannot escape it without sitting in the chair long enough for us to get something done with them in order to let them see the light that there is a solution to disinterbulate theta and disinterbulate mess. So it's a trap within a trap within a trap within a trap within a trap and so on. This doesn't mean that you should get all, oh gosh, this is too much for me to confront. I can't do this. No, you need to allow yourself and love yourself enough that you can invest in yourself enough to take the time and see that it works for you, and we will unwind this together through this podcast, through courses, through word clearing, through auditing. And there is a way out, there is a solution.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, and if you need somebody to talk to, if you need somebody to talk through these things with, you know, please reach out to us. You can go onto the website ao-gp.org and and shoot us a message. Um, I'm, you know, I'm always available. Comment down below this video. Uh, you can also go on college of independent scientology.com. And if you don't already have a profile, create a profile and open up the conversation. Like, this is stuff that we want you talking about this. We don't want you hiding in your own hovels, trying to figure this all out in your head. Don't self-audit, don't self-audit. Like, really get get out there and open up the conversation. So, like, and I love what Jonathan just said, you get enough critical mass, you get enough uh enough velocity to break through that exosphere, to break through the thermosphere, to break through the stratosphere of this earth, and you become such a big being, bigger than you've ever been before. And it's wonderful. Trust me, the air is wonderful up here.
SPEAKER_02:And look at that view.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Isn't it a marvel? Oh my gosh. Are there so we are there right?
SPEAKER_02:Okay. No, no, no.
SPEAKER_03:I'm still here. I'm still here.
SPEAKER_02:Okay. Caught up in the moment.
SPEAKER_03:Well, it's just even just the whole concept of of a trap. Like when you're in it, you can't get out of it. Right, right. Because and only only some escape. Yeah. And then you know, some animal. That's right. And even if you just consider an animal, like, what do we do to trap an animal? We lure it with something. And um, and it's just funny how we trap ourselves as well, on top of it. We lure ourselves into our own traps, let alone somebody else creating it.
SPEAKER_02:And we live, we we live on a trap, and there's there's lots of pretty bells and whistles and buildings and aesthetics and and all of this stuff. And just you know, it's just look at it, it's just so beautiful, and that's the trappiness of it. So look at it for what it is and go that way.
SPEAKER_00:Well, right. And and when you're when you're in a trap, a trap, a trap is no longer a trap once you know that it is. I want you to get this. The nature of a trap has to be, it has to be covert. Think about think about walking through the forest, a bear trap or whatever. Walking through the forest is hidden. Uh um, the where they the the the bear falls down into the pit, you know, a bear pit. It has to be hidden. If once you know it's a trap, it's now just a problem. I want you to get this. Once you know that I I'm in a trap in my life, I'm in a trap to my finances, I'm in a trap to my situation, I'm in a trap in a in a in a bad marriage or bad relationship, I'm in a trap to my body and the effects of my body or the condition of my body. Once you know you're in a trap, it's no longer a trap. It's now just a problem. And now you become theta solver, theta the solver, you become theta solver to now bring solution to the problem. This is why auditing works, because you actually now know I know that my life is riddled with traps, and I gotta get out of this, I gotta fix this. Need for change on the on the uh the characteristics. Um chart of awareness, chart of awareness. That's right. Uh need for change. And so now that I know I have my life riddled with traps, and I need to change this, I gotta get out of this. I now get myself connected, I get in session, I get on course, I start getting tech that I can apply to my life, and I start unraveling these traps because once you know you're in a trap, it's no longer a trap, it's a problem. Right, and the problem can be solved. Yeah, agree to disagree with it.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, agree to disagree with the traps that you've agreed to. Oh my god, that's so good. Making the first step and unwinding it is the key to the trap. Wow. So we hope you guys have gotten a lot out of this, our listeners, and uh thank you for being here. And uh we've enjoyed this podcast hopefully as much as you did, and we will catch you uh maybe tomorrow or Tuesday for another podcast, and we'll get you some more information and give you the straight scoop on LRH Tech as much as we can. Thank you for being here, Namaste, and we love you. Bye-bye. Peace. Bye-bye. All right, and welcome to another new Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is season 12, episode seven. Uh, we're gonna do a podcast on emotional charge, and it's gonna be the truth about emotional charge and what that all entails, and give a breakdown of the things that basically push people around every minute of every day that they're not asleep, and sometimes even when they're asleep, uh, depending on what the situation is. So I'm here with Quentin Stroud and Arthur has the evening off, so it'll just be Quentin and I. Quentin, how are you?
SPEAKER_00:Hey, I'm doing fantastic. My emotions are intact.
SPEAKER_02:You're not charged. That as much as I could be, trust. Yeah. So let's get right into this. And um, you know, basically let's delineate this for for our listeners uh and subscribers to the podcast and ask the question have you ever wondered why some something from 10 years ago can still ruin your day in 10 seconds?
SPEAKER_00:Jeez, man. Yeah, I mean, we we don't really talk a lot about this, and I think that when the when people think about independent Scientology, uh they think of it's it's more of a heady, it's more of a heady religion, like it's more of a heady uh spiritual practice. And so what ends up happening is those emotional moments when a person is really going through something, right? And we're gonna get into the depths of that in a minute, but those emotional moments often get intellectualized and reframed sometimes as something that's going on in the head and not the heart. And again, I'm using this uh these terms colloquially, like these expressions are something that even kind of are misnomers, but I think you get what I'm saying, where it's like stuff is I I'm I'm feeling some kind of way, and as opposed to that being immediately recognized as an intense emotional event, it can sometimes be intellectualized, and that's what we're gonna kind of deal with right now.
SPEAKER_02:Right. It it's it's something people deal with every day, and emotional charge is there because there's something that has been yet heretofore unhandled that they can't spot themselves that is causing them to experience this misemotion. Uh and it can have multiple, multiple uh earlier events that are affecting them that cause the present charge, the manifestation of that that emotion to manifest in very severe ways.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, I think I think you just said something like uh mis-emotion, the misemotion, which I think is interesting how how we use it. So let's start, let's start there. Why why do we call it misemotion?
SPEAKER_02:Well, misemotion, if you see somebody get upset about something, you're talking to them, and all of a sudden uh they respond in a way that does not befit the current situation. And then the person says, So what are you getting upset about? Whether it's anger, fear, grief, apathy, you name it, uh, that is not what one would expect somebody to respond with. And that is charge, bypass charge, charge that's been touched on but not handled, that is showing up as a manifestation with that person at the time that you're dealing with them, or even yourself. Why am I feeling this way?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, and it's especially when you're when you when you as a being want to go through life. And of course, we know life isn't always happy rainbows and unicorns and whatnot, but we we typically want to go through life experiencing the pleasures of life, experiencing those moments of life that makes us feel good, it makes us feel pro-survival, it makes us feel like we want to keep going and you know, very uptone and upstat, right? So, uh, in the tech dictionary, misemotion is defined as anything that is unpleasant, emotion, such as antagonism, anger, fear, grief, apathy, or a death feeling. It says emotion and misemotion include all levels of the complete tone scale except pain. Emotion and misemotion are closely allied to motion, being only a finer particle action. And then misemotional, which is right under that, it says such a word would indicate that a person did not display the emotion called for by the actual circumstances of the situation. Being misemotional is synonymous with being irrational. Isn't that interesting? And so, and so if if you're dealing with your 2D or your relationship or you're dealing with somebody who, you know, you really want to have a good flow, and yet boom, this this seemingly irrational, uncalled for emotion displays itself, that is being misemotional to the situation, right? And it doesn't mean that they don't have a right to feel how they feel, and they have, you know, they are a f completely self-determined, free-willed individual, right? And so if that's how that person is choosing to show up in that moment or wishes or wants to show up in that moment, that's totally up to them. But it's still a misemotional thing, it can still be considered misemotional, right?
SPEAKER_02:And and that is the issue, is why am I feeling this way and and how do I handle it? Uh, you know, it's charge makes you overreact or underreact because you are in a position where I need to do this, or I can't do that, and so the person shuts down and doesn't communicate, and so they're quiet because you know, I mean, it could it could go as far as somebody said when they were a kid and slap them, be quiet. Yeah, yeah. Or I mean, you know, it can manifest in so many different ways. It it it's hard to understand, but you're on the outside when you're dealing with that person or even with yourself, you don't know what the the reason is or the why for it is, but it it's it's an emotional response that is not what one would expect at that moment in time, right?
SPEAKER_00:And back of that, and this is what we're gonna go to now, but back of that is where we have these secondaries, right? These secondaries, and so if you understand, for those of you who have read Dianetics, and if you haven't, we're gonna kind of break it down a little bit, but physical pain, physical pain and unconsciousness is necessary for the creation of an engram, right? So, what ends up happening is uh when a person experiences physical pain and unconsciousness, the analytical mind shuts down to whatever degree, and the reactive mind kicks in, it turns on, it starts recording, right? Right. This is an engram now. What LRH discovered was that emotional pain can have a very similar effect, right? Emotional pain can also be like a blow. And if you ever have experienced uh a sudden announcement of a loss, like oh, you know, somebody passed away, or a sudden announcement of um uh a breakup, I'm out of here, I'm over, this is done, you know, and you can experience a very heavy emotional incident, right? This is called a secondary. The reason why it's called a secondary is because it gets its charge or the bulk of its charge from an earlier engram. Am I explaining that right? Yeah, yeah. So it gets its charge or the bulk of its charge from an earlier incident, which contains physical pain, which contains unconsciousness, which contains loss, which contains grief, whatever those feelings that one may be feeling. And the secondary turns on, and that's when mis-emotion really starts to kick in. That's when the irrational fears, the irrational grief or anger or whatever starts to kick in. And this stuff can go on and on and on. And the person who might be experiencing it, again, because it's below their conscious level of awareness, they are not that I don't know why I feel this way. I just feel some kind of way right now. This don't feel right to me.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:You know, we hear it all the time. Yeah, because if they knew what was wrong with them, it wouldn't be wrong with them, therefore, it wouldn't be miss emotion.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it would it would just be what, yeah, it it'll be what I'm it'll be what I'm experiencing, what I'm feeling right now in this moment. And and if I can explain that rationally, like if if if if there's a loss of a relationship and a person says, Oh, I'm sad about that, that makes sense. Totally got that. You know what I mean? You you there was some somebody who you cared about, somebody who you loved, and the the the the deal ended. Okay, I'm sad about that, right? But if it starts to get irrational, if it starts to get the overwhelming grief, I can't live without you, and I'm gonna you know what people you know you know how it goes, right? And all this stuff starts to turn on. Now we got now there's something back of that. Okay, let's take a look and see what's going on, you know.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, and that's that's the thing, is is that it's not something that is controllable, it is just something that well, and this is why it's called the reactive mind, is yeah, it is a reaction, it it is a reactive response for which there has there seems to be no apparent reason. Somebody goes, Well, I was I was abused as a child, and and that that abuse that I received from that dollar store clerk reminded me of that. Okay, if if that was that, then why did you have miss emotion?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. If you knew if you knew from whence it came, then why you let it come?
SPEAKER_02:Right, exactly. So there's there's still something there that is yet unseen, which gets into you know the the Scientology axioms and the dynetic axioms that for anything to persist, there's a lie behind it, and this is something that is uninspected, but yet is persisting. So that uh that gets us gets us to it's in money, it's in body image, it's in abandonment, it's in abuse, it's in going to the grocery store as a a uh normal matter of business, and there's a certain smell or a certain sound or a certain look uh that then quote unquote triggers or re-stimulates you to where something happens. And then then you you have this reactive mind response, which is a now I'm supposed to response because it's it's trying the reactive mind is trying to protect you. That's what it was designed for, but it's gone wrong, right?
SPEAKER_00:Right. And so and so you're in the store and you see a jar of pickles, and oh, you know, he always loved pickles, and boom, crying, crying, crying, and you know, all this kind of stuff happens, or whatever, right? And again, a person experien experiencing the full range of emotions is a healthy thing. It's clearly that that we as beings have the ability to experience the full range of emotions, but pickles, the purpose of pickles is not to make you cry. That's not what the that's what not what pickles are for, right? So if seeing the pickle turns something on, I hope you I hope you're following the logic here. If seeing the pickle turns something on, there's something that's connected with it. There's some stored grief or some stored anger or some stored, whatever it is, that's back of that that is being turned on, being activated, re-stimulated. And now we realize that there's something much bigger here that I can I should or could take a look at, right, and deal with. And this is why auditing works. Because what's happening is in auditing, you're gonna go in and you're gonna with your auditor's help, you're gonna find those things that have locked you in that state.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_02:You're gonna go ahead. Yeah, I mean, and the way that you can handle this with a person, and again, we don't want to use what, who, or why questions, because that gets us into a lot of charge territory, and we're not doing that type of auditing, but this has it has a lot to do with this. But you could you could talk to someone and you could find areas of charge that need to be handled and say, so tell me how you feel uh about things you avoid talking about. Tell me how you feel uh the about the things and and uh how this occurs when you become instantly angry. Tell me tell me what your thoughts are on uh when when you freeze up and you you seem almost paralyzed. Things like that. You know, what me uh get the thoughts, feelings, and considerations around memories that still replay, or things that activate the person the fastest. These are charged areas, and you can go in with with dianetics procedure without a meter, and you can help that person with those areas by just running it with good old-fashioned, tried, true, trusty Dianetics book one. For sure. You you did that for 400 hours, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And and and what's interesting is the thing, and uh Elaric is so right, and you said it too, Jonathan, that if you knew what it was, it ain't it. Because and this is why this is why talk therapy, psychotherapy, cognitive behavioral therapy, whatever, this is why it kind of I get what you're trying to do, but you're not really hitting it. Because if the if the person can sit there and say, oh, when my when my mother, you know, said no, wire hangars, you know, and and did what she did or said what she said, and that just messed me up. It ain't it. That ain't it. It's right. Because if you can put your finger on it, that ain't the what.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, yeah, because it's it's for it to persist and to still happen, there's something else underlying that that you haven't seen, or it wouldn't wouldn't be persistent, like we said earlier. So there's something else that's going on there, and that's something that is unobserved. And how you find that is is either with dianetics or Scientology auditing, or preferably both, to find the bypass charge that the pre-clear is unaware of in order to prevent these things from happening. Again, um, you know, I mean, people try to affirm their way out of it, meditate it away, numb it with alcohol, drugs, uh, you know, or just plain ignore it, not is it, and right uh I mean, on and on and on. But the charge stays until it's released, which is very much the case. So that brings us to how emotional charge is discharged. Yes.
SPEAKER_00:And so when we'll say this, when we're looking at when we're looking at the tone scale, again, these emotions that one can experience all across the emotional tone scale, uh, as a free thetan, as a person who can move up and down the tone scale um when it when it's required or when it's necessary or when it's called for, that is normal, right? That that is that is haveable, right? It's when a person starts to get uh we use I'm using these words not not to evaluate for anybody, but just to kind of get you to see what's happening or or when this could happen. Uh, when a person might start to get snappy or antagonistic, when a person might start to get very bitter and holding grudges, when a person starts to get withdrawn, uh, they kind of come across as numb, like they don't care. They don't give a uh I don't give a you know uh when a person is overly fragile, right? Or overly dramatic, it's like I say the slightest thing and it just crumbles your entire universe. Like, no, no, no, that wasn't my intention. I was just I was just trying to say I didn't like those shoes. Like, what you think I'm fat? What you know, it's like it's like all that, right? And so what ends up happening is these uh uh held in place emotional charges are sticking there for some reason. They're stuck there for some reason, and it's important that we go in and are able to discharge these emotions, these emotional incidents, these uh secondaries. It's important that we go in and discharge them. What is the way that we handle secondaries?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you can you can run a secondary, um, just like you can an n-gram or a lock, because the more you go over it, the more charge comes off, which leads to the n-gram. So you can you can use it as an entry point uh just as easily. It's whatever is real to the person. So you could say, uh, so tell you know, tell me about what what happened to. They say, you know, gosh, you know, I just I started getting this this nauseous feeling. I went to Burger King and I just started to feel sick and I had to run into the bathroom and throw up. Okay, so tell me about that. And you get there and you say, okay, so go to the beginning of that incident and tell me when you're there. And they run through it and you say, Okay, good. Let's go back to the beginning of the incident and tell me when you're there. And they run through it. And as you do that, you get more of what's going on, and then you can take that to jump to if it's a lock or it's a secondary, whether it doesn't matter what it is, it's all going to lead into the fold of that n-gram, and at least currently what's going on, into an N-gram chain, and you'll have an earlier time where the person felt sick about food, and an earlier time, and and it could lead anywhere. You never know where it's going to go. You know how this works, Quentin. You've you've seen that for sure. And and so that's the interesting thing about auditing is is that you never know where it's going to lead because if you did, it wouldn't be aberrating you, like we we've mentioned here in the podcast. Right, right.
SPEAKER_00:Well, well, and the other thing, the thing I love about uh Dianetics and independent Scientology auditing is that what what's interesting about it is that when you go to the beginning of these incidents and you're going over it, you're returning to that moment, you're returning to that incident, and you're re-experiencing it, right? With all full perceptions, with all the things turned on. And so, might you cry, you might cry. I remember a snot coming out of my nose, I remember headaches, I remember my forehead, like my because I was so angry, my forehead was crinkled up, and I was getting a headache like right there in the front of my forehead. Like it was, I was so in it, okay. I was so in it that all this stuff was was turned on. It was, it was, I was re-experiencing these emotions, I was re-experiencing these incidents. And what ends up happening is is that each time, like you say, each time you contact it and gotta go to the beginning, go over again, go to the beginning, go over again, each time you contact it, you discharge a little bit of that that emotion or that that charge. You discharge a little bit. Yeah, it dissipates, correct. Well, what's interesting is that if it doesn't, and there is an earlier similar, and there's an earlier similar, you can find where this stuff was coming up, and you might not have known that that's how you felt. There was a situation with my brother. I was in session, and I had no idea when because at first I would just start to get sick on my stomach, and so I told, you know, about my somatic, what was turning on, and we go earlier, similar, earlier, similar, and it was an incident with my brother where we were wrestling. This was when I was a kid, like a like a small thing, and we were wrestling, and my brother ended up kneeing me in the stomach, not like trying to like hurt me, but we were just kind of tumbling, tumbling, boom, uh I get so angry, and so I just started I just started wailing, like wow, wow, wow, wow, wow I can laugh about it now, but I just started wailing, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. And my brother was older than me, so he was a little bit taller and bigger than me. But I was listen, I wasn't backing down, okay. And I say all this to say is that when you're going through this stuff, you don't know. I I had no idea that back when I was like five or six years old, or whatever, that I was dealing with that steel at 43. 43, and I'm going through these feelings, you know. And so I'm just giving you this viewpoint, not to say this is your experience, yours could be totally different, but the stuff that is really hurting you, and I'm saying hurting emotionally, and in my case, it was even physiological. I was having like gut issues because of this. The stuff that is hurting you could be stuff that you have no idea is there until you get in session, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right, because you have to you have to start somewhere, right? So that's that's the the whole point is that you you you will go the adverse effect of this stuff until you get some reality on it, and then you go, oh, okay, well, I need to keep working on this. Because uh as an example, here you are talking about this incident that happened to you as a child, and you're laughing about it. Right. Yeah, that's that's not misemotion, is you're looking at it for what it was, and you you saw how it was affecting you as an adult. Right.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. And and I've been able to do the same thing when it comes to my father's death. I've been able to do the same thing. Like, you know, just you get to a point where I got it. Like that the grief, the grief becomes a memory. And not to say that I don't miss my father, not to say that I don't have uh uh still that that feeling, excuse me, that feeling of wanting to be, you know, communicative and present with my father, but the grief charge doesn't sit on me, you know, the grief of it all doesn't weigh weigh on me. And so I'm able to live and thrive and move while my brother, unfortunately, sits with it often. And we've talked about it multiple times, right? About how you know how how much you know that that that loss uh affected him and still does. And so these things are very, very real. And we just wanted to have this conversation because I think a lot of times when we talk about um independent Scientology, we often talk a lot about what's going on in the head space. Uh, and I'm using that again, not literally, but we kind of talk about what's going on in the intellectual space versus in the emotional space. And we want you to know that as a happy person, as a clear, right? Well, if you're clear, you experience the full range of emotions. I get happy, I get sad, I get mad, I get glad. You know, I like you experience a full range of emotions, but you don't get stuck there as a clear, you don't get stuck there when you don't have that reactive mind uh uh feeding data into your lived experience right now. Boom, boom, boom, boom, over and over and over again. And it's like, how do I get free of this? Well, there's a way, and and and we we facilitate that, we help that, we want you to understand it by going on the college, college of independent scientology.com, and you can take courses, you can get into this, and you can really understand what's going on with my mind. What's going on with these emotions that seem to take hold of me, you know?
SPEAKER_02:And then um you can have them and they they they push you in directions that you wouldn't normally go. It's like being in a labyrinth that you you don't know where it's headed, and sometimes it's a it's a dead end, it's a blind alley. And and you know, we've talked about this in other podcasts about now I'm supposed to's and considerations and and and and all of this stuff. And and these are all monitored by what's in the reactive mind. Well, you know, hey, you know, maybe you should you should move to Los Angeles and you know you could get a fresh, oh no, Los Angeles, oh that's you know, my dad died there, and oh, it's terrible, and I should never go there. And it and it's it's because it's related A equals A equals A. It's one thing equals another equals another. And so that's part of the labyrinth that leads to a dead end. Oh, I can't do this, oh, I can't do that, oh, I can't do this. You go down all these blind alleys and dead ends because you have these fixed ideas that are considerations on what you can or cannot do based off of past locks, secondaries, and engrams that have created this emotional charge that says, danger, danger, danger. I can't do that. And this is where you run into why can I ever get ahead in life? Why can I do this? I always wanted to do this, but I I've always got a false start and I can never complete the cycle of action. This is why. That is the misemotion, that is the emotion that you're running into that is pushing you in a direction than the one you want to go in.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah. And as you continue to release this charge, even just dealing with these secondaries, man, this is so good. Because even just dealing with these secondaries, the anxiety starts to feel safe. That part where you used to feel anxiety, now you feel safe again. Where you used to say, I can't do this, I can't do that. Now you start to regain abilities, right? Where you used to feel shame and uh uh uh feeling feeling ashamed of how you express or what you said or what you do or whatever, when crying becomes uncontrollable, all that stuff becomes a thing of the past. And you now get to experience the emotions that you that you need to experience in the moment. So again, I say we're not automatons, we're not robots, we do have feelings. And boy, oh boy, you don't want to see so you know, you don't want to see me angry. Oax, right?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, but there's there's there's nothing wrong with having feelings. We're not trying to make you uh, you know, a Vulcan or something like that, because I've seen a lot of people say, you know, well, you know, I just won't have feelings anymore when I'm clear. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. You will have the appropriate feelings, not feelings that you're so you thought you were supposed to have, and you can move up and down the tone scale at will. Does that mean that you won't get upset about something? Oh, maybe you'll get upset about something because you see an injustice. Or or or maybe your your employees uh just don't understand how to do something, and you think, you know, why am I getting angry about this? Okay, what could I take responsibility for? Oh, I know. After you talk to them, you find out they don't know how to do the job. Okay, well, that's my responsibility. I need to write up a hat and give them a check sheet that they know the policies and they can get through this and then they can do their job instead of George, my God, why aren't you doing what you're supposed to be doing? You know better, you're fired.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's it's it's just it's not analytical, right? It's totally irrational, yeah. And so we're we're going to um kind of open open the doors, so to speak, to where those of you who are having these emotional, emotional turmoils, those of you who are going through this emotional stuff, and it seems to be like this has been going on for years. This has been going on for quite some time, you know. This is not something that's gonna be, you know, it's just gonna go away after time. When they say time heals all wounds or whatever, no, it's not just gonna go away after a while. This is stuff that by going in and being able to confront your own true self, your own past, incidents and stuff that's happened to you, and really deal with those things. Can that emotional energy kind of be discharged to where now I get who I am, where I am, what I'm doing now in present time? And now, if I do feel something, get this, and I'm gonna say this, and this has been my experience. Being clear, you feel feelings richly. And I'm gonna say this for real, for real. You feel feelings richly. And so when I feel these feelings, it feels um not like it's it's not like it's taking control of me. It's like I control my feelings, and right now, this is I'm angry about this. I'm angry concerning this situation, I'm not okay with whatever's going on right now. I'm grieving because of the loss of a loved one, whatever the case may be. I feel those feelings and I feel them richly, but guess what? Very shortly thereafter, I'm back up the tone scale. Right? Right. Very very shortly thereafter, I'm back up, even if it's to a point of mild interest. Doesn't mean you're back happy, oh, everything is fine, and the leprechauns are skipping. No, it just means that I'm back to a place where you know what? I can have this moment and I can and I can experience this moment, and I can go through this thing, and I can think about the good times, and I can remember the joys and sorrows of you know whatever might have happened, and I can move through that in a very rich way. It's so wonderful to be clear, it's such a rich vibrational experience. I don't know how to explain it to you, but you get you get the fullness of it, and then you say, now back to myself. I get the fullness of that emotional experience, hmm, and then back to myself, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right. It's it doesn't cut you off from anything once it's been discharged, but you can look at it for what it is, and it's you know, it's no different than uh I'm I'm going to Disneyland. I I went to Disneyland, and you remember going to Disneyland. Oh, you know, I had a car accident and my leg got broken. All right, yeah, that happened. Okay, so so what do we what do you want to do for dinner? Right, right. Because there's no misemotion in it. And that's that's a fact. That's what happens when it's done standardly and correctly uh using dianetic andor Scientological procedure, depending on what's going on. But it's also interesting to note that dianetics can be used for so many different things. It's not what you might think that it's just these incidents that happen, because so much of what we experience can be handled with dianetic procedure, and there are so many different things you can do with it. It's it's like having that multi-tool uh in your pocket that has, or a Swiss Army knife that has all these different tools and a toothpick. So if if you need to get out something between your teeth, or you need to cut something open, or if you need to tighten something up, or whatever, that's what New Area Dianetics does. And that's how this happened is Dianetics in 1950 was good old Dianetics. And then by late 1970s, now we have new area dianetics, and all of these discoveries are all wrapped into one. You're using a meter and you can address things so much, even allergies, even allergies. Yes. Oh my god. And that causes a lot of emotion with people, for example. Uh you know, it just goes on and on and on. So there's it's it's such a multi-tool for so many things, and and everything is the same way with a being. And then when you get on the OT levels, you know, you've got neurodianetics for OTs that doesn't even use Dianetics because you can't, it's titled that, but you can't use Dianetics on a clear on a clear, you have to use Scientology, but it does the same thing through Scientology auditing, and it's it's unbelievable what happens, and it's very, very clever, and it's just mind-blowing how simple it is. But this stuff works, yes, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And so we we just wanted to do this uh episode just to kind of help you understand your own emotional charge, where these emotional charges come from, especially when you yourself even know that it's not you, it's not this is not how you choose to feel. Um, you know, this is something that's coming up and it needs to be looked at, it needs to be addressed. Uh, imagine what happens when you start clearing this stuff out, right? You start going into these areas and you really get to the root of why you've been feeling the way you've been feeling for so many years, why you've been, you know, mighty low uh around certain things, why you felt like you couldn't do certain things um just because, you know. And so if you want a deeper guidance and if you want us to kind of help you with that through auditing, through the coursework we do, uh the TRs and objectives, which is where student and coach relationship, um, where you where you're rocking your TRs and you're making sure you're getting these uh communication uh channels handled very, very well, and just cleaning up that emotional space, you know? So the technology is definitely here and we're here for it. So let's get into it.
SPEAKER_02:Well, I hope every got everybody got something out of this and has a better understanding of what causes emotionslash misemotion. And um it it's it's very easy to understand if you've experienced it yourself, and once you see that it can actually happen, you go, Oh, there's a tool for this. And that's that's all it takes, is once you have the reality of that that fixed that, you're like, I want some more of this. So we'll be back with another podcast tomorrow. And thanks for listening. And we hope you enjoyed the podcast. We'll see you soon. Namaste and