Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
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Scientology Outside of the Church Podcast
SE12EP9 - Independent Scientology and Gradient Scales
Ever notice how one tricky word can stall an entire study session? We take that everyday moment as a beginning analogy and we then pull a bigger thread: How all of the gradient scales in Independent Scientology and Dianetics are really one BIG scale using that very same analogy of how misunderstood words drop you to “mystery” on the Tone Scale, why and how the CDEI scale shifts from "refused" to “no” to ultimately “curious” and above, and how a single stable datum can pull you out of confusion towards a condition of Power on anything in your life. By stacking scales—Tone, CDEI, awareness on the Grade Chart, and ethics conditions—we show a clear, workable map for moving from overwhelm to certainty on ANYTHING.
We get practical. Opening a dictionary isn’t busywork; it’s a deliberate shift from enforced reality to genuine understanding. Using new terms in sentences pushes you up through curiosity into knowing. We connect that process to Axiom 11’s states of being and the communication cycle, explaining why shared definitions create duplication and why agreement is the bridge to action. We also explore undercuts like the Small Common Words dictionary and the Key to Life approach, showing how time, place, form, and event live inside language and why skipping these gradients keeps people stuck.
For those who love the deep cuts, we talk about the prehavingness scale developed by LRH in the early 1960s and fine-grain tone levels—how nuanced states between one tone level on the tone scale can be assessed and used to guide precise change as an example. Zoomed out, this is the same formula everywhere: correctly sized steps, steady duplication, and consistent application. Zoomed in, it’s the next word, the next sentence, the next moment of understanding. Follow the gradients long enough and the role of words recedes; communication gets cleaner, knowingness speeds up, ability rises, as does a being's awareness.
If you’re ready to trade mystery for clarity and confusion for power, press play. Then tell us: which scale shift do you need most today? Subscribe, share with a friend who’s stuck, and leave a review to help others find the map.
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All right, welcome to another Scientology Outside of the Church podcast. This is season twelve, episode nine. Uh, it is going to be titled Gradient Scales in Scientology and Dianetics. And uh we covered this a little bit before the podcast, and I uh tried to explain what it was gonna be about to the guys, and um so we're gonna try and revisit that again and and get it across. How are you guys?
SPEAKER_00:Fantastic. I I want I want to know I want to know these scales so we can go up the scale.
SPEAKER_02:So we can go up the scale, right? Right, because you always hear that in Scientology, you know, well that's downscale, or that's upscale, you know, that that type of thing. And so and we a lot of people don't don't have a lot of uh experience with scales, but yet they do in independent Scientology. Everything in Scientology is on a scale, and the most commonly known scale is wait for it, the tone scale. For sure. Everybody knows about the tone scale. We've talked about it in the podcast over and over and over and over and over. Tone scale this, tone scale that, chart of human ability, all of that, those are scales. And we have we even have a scale for uh awareness in the middle of the the dynamics and Scientology Great Bridge. It's we it's the scale, okay. And so the way LRH made all this is that everything is an improvement because if we go to the simple datum of um outgradient as a misunderstood uh concept, what what is the scale of a misunderstood word or too steep of a gradient? Go ahead, guys.
SPEAKER_00:What what is the scale? What is the scale of a misunderstood word?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Confusion. Actually, it could be a lot of things because um because you can blow, you can get um apathetic towards a subject, you can get angry towards a subject. It's a bit of a sliding scale, really, depending on the person's reaction to it. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. And so even though it's presented as the the barriers to study, it's a scale. It's it's a scale. You see it on the tone scale, you see it on the chart of human ability, you see it on the chart of awareness. What's what's at the bottom of the grade chart, right at the point of entry on the grade chart? Need for change, right? Okay. So where would somebody be? And I'm trying to approach this, get uh wait for it, on a gradient scale, and then in describing this to get everybody on board and have an understanding of how all of these scales tie in together. So let's say a person uh, well, let's start off with the tone scale. What is the tone scale called? It's the no to mystery scale, right? Okay, all right. So if we're looking at a misunderstood word, what is the base or the foundation of a misunderstood word? It's a mystery, not know. Yeah, it's a mystery, right? So right, so the tone scale is no to mystery. Get it? Yeah, it's a mystery. No to mystery, it's the no to mystery scale of emotional tone levels.
SPEAKER_00:So what so when you went into a when you went into a misunderstood word, it automatically brings you down tone on whatever level to a mystery that this is like, oh, what is that? What is that word? And and you're you're operating there when you go past the MU.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Okay, now this is this is just this is just as an explanation for sure for all of our listeners that that is there is a reality of it there. So if you don't know about anything on a particular subject, where are you at on the tone scale? Mystery. You're in mystery, yeah. You're in mystery. You don't know anything about about computer programming, you're in mystery, you don't know anything about it, so you're in mystery on the tone scale. What is this thing called computer program? How does it work? How does a computer work? What does binary mean? Oh, it's ones and zeros. That's how a computer communicates, is in ones and zeros with itself, and it turns it into something else and something else and something else, and then the next thing you've got a word printed on your screen. That is a gradient scale. Ones and zeros are the basis. So if you don't know something about something, you don't even know about ones and zeros, you just are in complete mystery. That is the tone scale on any given subject, and in this case, misunderstood words. So, what do you do to clear up a misunderstood word? What's the what's the primary thing that we do if we look you look up the definition? So when when you look up the definition and you you find the definition, okay, now I'm gonna I'm gonna superimpose another scale, the CDEI scale, off to the right uh of the tone scale and the awareness scale. Now, so you're on the awareness scale, you're at need for change. I don't understand this word, right? Right, okay, okay. So we have we have this subject, we know nothing about. I mean, it happens to all of us. You you're you know you you don't even know what the word means about a subject. You know, I've never heard that word in my life. Oh, it's a subject. Okay, now you're gonna clear that word. So you're at need for change on the awareness scale. I don't know anything about this, but you're also at mystery on the tone scale, right?
SPEAKER_00:Get it, yeah, because you don't know yourself, right?
SPEAKER_02:Because you don't know yourself, and you're at I need to know this word, so you're at need for change on the awareness scale, and that you need to define this word, you're in mystery on the tone scale, and then on the CDEI scale, where are you at as far as that word goes?
SPEAKER_00:Because you don't know it, the information is inhibited or kept from you. Could be, Arthur.
SPEAKER_02:What do you think?
SPEAKER_01:Um it could be the way it's written in context as well, right?
SPEAKER_02:But where are you at on the on the CDI scale? Where are you at on that? If you don't know a word, are you at no, K N O W, understand, curious, desired, enforced, inhibited, NO, no, or refuse? Where would you be if you didn't know a word?
SPEAKER_01:Oh, you'll be in C D probably probably curious, um, but then depending on the person as well, it could be refused. So I'd say between curious and refuse.
unknown:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So somebody somebody might come across this word and then um and then just blow from it, you know, I've had enough of this. Like I'm sick of doing this. But then somebody who's curious is probably more than willing to investigate what it means, um, hence moving them up the tone scale.
SPEAKER_00:Well, at the moment at the moment you don't know it, you're at no because there's no reality with it, there's no uh affinity with it, there's no communication with the word. Like I just come across this word precipitous, and if I don't know the definition of that word, then I would be in mystery and in no.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, good. So you see how this how all of these things are correlating? Do maybe we need to look up the word correlating for our listeners, how things correlate, these different scales correlate. Who wants to do it? Correlate.
SPEAKER_00:Correlation, hold on a second the appearance of something uh with hold on a second. Nope. Let me see, correlate. Here it is. Uh having a mutual relationship or connection in which one thing affects or depends upon another. Two things or more related or complementary things.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So what we're saying here, and boy, we hit the ground running on this right from the start of the podcast, is that all of these scales are correlated. They they have everything to do with each other, just varying degrees, varying um resolutions, if you will, where the the CDEI scale is only a few levels, and then you look at the chart of awareness and you see, oh, wait, there's all of those levels of awareness below need for change on the grade chart. It's a huge scale, and it's not the largest of all of the scales that are correlated in Scientology. Okay, so we have this correlation of the CDEI scale, the chart of awareness scale, the tone scale, and now that brings us back to where we're at on the CDEI scale, and we we don't know a word. So what happens, as as Quentin was saying, is you're at no NO at the bottom of the C D E I scale. The only thing below it is what refused, right?
SPEAKER_00:Okay, or both refused and inhibit it.
SPEAKER_02:Right, excuse me. Refused C D E C D E R E R. Gosh, curious, desired, enforced, inhibited, no, and refused. So refused is at the bottom of the C D E I Oh refuse. No is okay, right. No is just NO is just above refuse. Correct. Okay, that's what you have no definition before a word and you're studying something. So what do you have to go ahead?
SPEAKER_00:No, that's what I was saying. When Art was saying that a person would then blow, because right be right below no NO is refuse. I'm not looking that word up. I don't want to, I don't, this is stupid, you know. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, yeah. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00:Right.
SPEAKER_01:Right. So so that's which then goes, which then correlates to to whatever's going on with them, which then correlates. And and that correlation could be an abundance of things. Um, maybe they'll force to learn, you know, it could be a a student and their parents are pushing them to get um extra study in, and they'd rather go playing. Well, there's a number there's a million and one reasons.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And and this is what I was talking about yesterday when I said this would be a great podcast, is Arthur took the next logical step just now while we're doing the podcast and posted, and I don't want to get ahead of ourselves here, and posted Axiom 11, the states of being, in the Scientology axioms, which is also correlated to the CDEI scale, the awareness scale, and the tone scale. So we're gonna get there in just a second. And Arthur, you're absolutely right, because these are the states of being. So on the CDEI scale, yeah. So on the CDEI scale, we have a misunderstood word in the context of what we're talking about here in the podcast of no and oh, and right below that on the scale is refused. You can find almost all of these scales in uh the Scientology Zero to Eight Book of Basics, and then it follows forward uh with um eight, eight thousand eight, and and all of the eight books, there's three of them. So what we're trying to say is that when a person has a misunderstood word on the CDEI scale, they're at no, they they have no information, and or they refuse it and they blow from looking up that word at at the bottom of the scale. Now, what's above no on the CDEI scale if we're talking about a misunderstood word? What's the next level up?
SPEAKER_00:It will be inhibited.
SPEAKER_02:Inhibited. Yeah, you your your understanding is being inhibited.
SPEAKER_00:I'm taking copious notes, so I'm tracking what you right.
SPEAKER_02:So that's that's the the point of this podcast is we're approaching it from a very simple, uh not high magnification scale, the CDEI scale. But it is directly and wholly and completely, just like everything else in dianetics and Scientology, it's all about gradient scales. So the CDEI scale, the awareness scale on the Scientology and Dianetics grade chart, the tone scale, and we're gonna get into some more of these scales here in a minute, but we want to finish and follow through with a misunderstood word as a uh easy way to get this across to our listeners because it can get really confusing really fast. So we've come up the CDEI scale, we know we don't know our word, and now we're at inhibited because we can't find the word, we don't understand it. All right, so we've gotten a dictionary. What happens on the CDEI scale to this misunderstood word once we we open crack open the dictionary?
SPEAKER_00:Uh we're now forced to try to understand it. Right, you got you got you got you have to confront it, you have to like confront it in force right, right?
SPEAKER_02:You have to confront it, okay. So, what what happens and why we have these barriers to study is because and and barriers to study aren't really a scale themselves, but they are in the same light that we're doing what we're doing right now, because if you have too steep of a gradient, you'll go into refuse and say, Ah, fuck it. Right, I don't want to study this. I I can't get it. You're overwhelmed, and you walk away and you give up and you never go to college again, or whatever, or pick up a dictionary, or whatever. It's there, but what I'm saying is, and I'm using this as an example, is everything we do in Scientology is directly correlated to every one of the scales we've just discussed, and then some, and that includes the Scientology ethics conditions, it's a scale. Yes, I'm gonna meant yes, I'm gonna mention it, but we'll get back to that in a minute. So, okay, so we've opened up the dictionary on the CDEI scale on a misunderstood word. We're at enforced. Here's the definition, okay. This is where reality kicks in for someone because they had no reality, now they have an enforced reality.
SPEAKER_00:They have to confront this new information, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right now, interestingly enough, interestingly enough, remember the podcast about arbitraries? Okay, what is a definition or a series of definitions of a word?
SPEAKER_00:It's an arbitrary arbitrary, yeah. They're just yeah definitions that we've connected with this word, yeah. Right, right.
SPEAKER_02:We've we right we've adopted these definitions and say these are the definitions that hold true for this series of letters that make up this word, whether the word has just a word, or it has a prefix in front of the word, or it has a suffix, or it has both. And English can get pretty pretty wacky, but the thing is, is that a dictionary is a book full of deaf arbitrary definitions. And if you look at one dictionary and you look at another dictionary and another dictionary, depending on, and let's just keep out of it whether the dictionary is a college-level dictionary, a high school level dictionary, an elementary or middle school. And I'm talking in terms in in US terms for those that do not live in the US, these are our levels of gradation, a scale of education and awareness on LRH's awareness scale. You see, it's everywhere. This is like the Fibonacci ratio.
SPEAKER_00:It's in everything.
SPEAKER_02:It's everywhere, it's everything, it's in shells, it's in leaves, it's in the trading markets, it's everywhere. This is a natural law. Okay, look it up. Look up the the the the golden ratio and Fibonacci. Okay, LRH realized this. It's everywhere. If you look at a seashell, it has the golden ratio in it. It's unmistakable, it's undeniable, it is a fact of the physical universe. This is the woof and warp, LRH's term, not mine. This is the woof and warp and the nature of the physical universe. You have signed a contract, you made an agreement that these are the rules of the game in the physical universe. You following so far? For sure. Okay, Arthur, you with us? I think so. Okay. Well, I think you are because you're the one that posted the the the uh axiom 11 states of being. Okay, we're and we're gonna get there, but I wanted to interject. All LRH did is he said there are some fundamental truths here. Let's take a look at them, let's break them down, major to minor, macro to micro, depending on what area of life in the physical universe and theta's interaction with the physical universe, andor above, if you will, at the top of the scale, that scale being the tone scale. Because if you're at the top of the tone scale, you're at serenity of beingness. And the top of the tone scale is no KNOW. Okay, because once you know how the physical universe works and you understand the scales within it, in which we are describing in this example of a misunderstood word, is a tiny, tiny way to understand this. Now you are above the arbitrary of the physical universe and its scales, and no longer have to operate within its rules of this observed fact of the Fibonacci ratio, the golden mean, all of that. And you don't have to understand how the computer works, the physical universe, the matrix. You just know you don't have to be in it anymore. Okay, so let's go back for a moment, back to the CDEI scale and the misunderstood words. So we're back to a dictionary full of definitions that are arbitrary definitions that everybody's agreed upon, just like LRH describes in the axioms, is that there's three realities yours, mine, and the agreed-upon reality of everyone else. That is the physical universe, which which is combined with the Fibonacci ratio. Okay, so we've got a dictionary, it's got these arbitrary definitions, and the dictionary says, I speak the sooth, these are the definitions for this word, and these are all of the meanings, and this is where it came from. We say, and it's a fact. And you go look at another dictionary and it says something else, right? And and just for fun, why does something persist for the Scientology axiom? That's right, and which brings us right back to what Arthur posted in our Facebook Messenger group for the podcast. He had the cognition that, oh, wait, this is alter isness or not-isness. What which one did you decide, Arthur? What what what is it when somebody has a misunderstood word, has no idea what it means? What is it? Is it not isness, as isness, isness, or alter is it'd be it'd be a not-is-ness.
SPEAKER_01:And then if they tried well, how often say say with word clearing, um, somebody doesn't know the word, so it had started a not-isness. Um, but in a weird way, that's their as-isness, which is an alter-isness. Um, and then as they go through the process of the word clearing, then there might be a little bit of alter-isness up until you get an as isness. So even that's a bit of a scale. Um, because it can go up or down as well.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And and so it it and and I'm not saying this is correct, I'm not saying this is correct incorrect. I'm just saying the isness, what you're telling me, if I'm duplicating it correctly, the isness is that the person that is a it is they are at a complete not know on a definition. Yes. Is that what you're saying? Okay. So the isness is the isness is they don't know anything about this. So it's either an altar-isness, definitely not an as-isness, it's either an altar-isness or a not-is-ness, correct?
SPEAKER_00:When wouldn't not is this be like a refusal? That's the only way to not is it because it's I'm just refusing to even look at it. I'm refusing even like no, I'm not looking at that. Not is.
SPEAKER_02:And that and that is my point. And that is my point. So you're limited by the states of being because if something is below a person's awareness, okay, it's not a it is it is, but it isn't a not-isness.
SPEAKER_00:If it's below the level of awareness for that person, it is a not-is-ness or an alter-isness that the person can't spot. Right.
SPEAKER_02:Now, if we widen this out, okay, and we we take into consideration as as as individuals in this podcast that we're aware that, well, I can't speak for Arthur, but I can speak for you and me, that we're fully aware we've been around and had more lives than the current one we're currently in, in the meat puppet known as Jonathan and Quentin and Arthur. Okay, we we just pick up a new a new car and drive it and get it at the hospital and out we go. Okay, so if you're looking at it within the paradigm, the reality of one lifetime, you're at an unawareness, which is a not-is-ness, because you've run across this definition before, you've run across these concepts last lifetime or on the whole track or whatever. Right. But this this lifetime, it would be a I don't know anything. Okay, but see that that in and of itself, that in and of its, you get it, don't you? See, that in and of itself is part of the right. So when you go back to the chart of awareness and you get to need for change, well, where have you been on your whole track? Okay, you as views your whole track, you were below need for change. So in so doing, you're somewhere on the tone scale, you're somewhere on the chart of awareness as this word goes. And in this lifetime, you've got yourself snowed into believing that I've never run across this concept before. That's just not the case. Okay, that's our reality, okay, in the paradigm and confines of the podcast we're doing right now, because our listeners may or may not have past life recollections, and what's real to them is real to them, what's true for them is true for them. And we completely and totally respect that. But get a little auditing, and you'll come soon come to realize you've been around more than once. So back to this word on the CDEI scale. Okay, so we're at enforced using an arbitrary set of definitions, and and and you look at another dictionary, and finally you you go into agreement with this is the definition, the rules for this description of this noun, verb, or whatever, and you say, Okay, okay, now I know what this definition is. Now, where are you on the CDEI scale?
SPEAKER_00:You're at um you wait, you said now I know what it is, right?
SPEAKER_02:So you're at desire looking it up, enforced and desire.
SPEAKER_00:And then above that, you will get into know, understand, curious.
SPEAKER_02:Well, you you get into curious, and then you get into understanding and then know.
SPEAKER_00:As you're so as you're looking it up, you're in enforced and desire because you want you want to know, you desire to know the definition, and you're forced to confront the content or whatever there. Right. Then when you start making sentences, this is why LRH has us making sentences when we're clearing words. You gotta make sentences because then you're in curiosity, you're in curious. Um the well, some people are well, well, some people are.
SPEAKER_02:Oh god, I gotta look the word up in the first place. I gotta use a dictionary. This sucks.
SPEAKER_00:That's enforced, man. That's enforced. Yeah, they feel like they're forcing me to look this up. My son used to do that. I'm like, I'm like, clear your words, uh. And he'd be like, I gotta look up the word. I'm like, yeah, you don't know the definition of it, look it up. And he was like, Oh my god, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I reckon it'll take you to enthusiasm. Um, however, once you realize that you've got another word, it'll drop you right back down to probably despair.
SPEAKER_02:Exactly. Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Potentially hopelessness and maybe a little bit of apathy. You know, screw this.
SPEAKER_02:I'm going home. Right. Right. So so you see there, see what you're looking at is, and and we have to make this correlation because this podcast is about a correlation of all of the scales that make up Dianetics in Scientology. So what's happening is you're at this enforced on a misunderstood word concept or symbol, and you're you're you're telling yourself, oh god, I've got to go through this indoctrination again of this arbitrary concept. I don't need to know how anything works. I can figure it out for myself. Well, you're still indoctrinating yourself in the physical universe, dummy. Would that be a nonsense? Well, I'm just saying, you you see what I'm saying? That's why it's enforced. Because it's an art, you're when you look up words and definitions, you're being told this is what this means. And if you go into other languages, other you go into other languages, other languages other than English, in which we're doing this. Podcast may have a better or worse, just like a programming language on a computer, may have a better or worse handling of how to describe something to yet build something else, to build something else, so that you have a program that gets a particular product. But it's still, regardless of whether you agree or not, part of Axiom 11, isness, not isness, alter isness, as isness, as isness, which correlates to the scale on the Scientology grade chart, Dionysus Scientology Grade Chart, of need for change. So if you don't you don't have a decent language that's very descriptive, of which English is very good, it's not perfect, but there are other languages that describe things even better than English. There are not many.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, well, we even when we look at the origin or the etymology or the derivation of a word, we're looking at old English, or we're looking at French, or we're looking at Latin, or we're looking at Greek. So we're looking at other ways of even like they what they describe it that might be even a more robust understanding of it because they'll get down to like the particulates of it and be like, oh, that's what that means. Because you looked at the origin of the word, you looked at the derivation of it.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And and Arthur got a got a really good understanding of it and said, Okay, I'm gonna post this in the the podcast group that we used to communicate about the podcast topics. Now I'm gonna I'm gonna regress for a moment. And when I told you I wanted to do a podcast on this, and and I tried to explain it to you, where were you at on the CDE i scale, Quentin?
SPEAKER_00:Refused.
SPEAKER_02:This is like you were at refuse.
SPEAKER_00:I was like, this ain't gonna work.
SPEAKER_02:Or maybe no.
SPEAKER_00:No, I was I was like a well, I was like a I was at the I don't want to do a podcast. I was at no understanding on the matter. Yes, I was at no understanding, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I was at enthusiasm at the full point of it.
SPEAKER_00:Were you everybody look up the definition of brown doser?
SPEAKER_01:You could you could even you could even look up the definition of liar as well.
SPEAKER_00:Right, which is an altar is oh my god.
SPEAKER_02:So what what we're looking at is is with this back to the the analogy of the definition of a word is that you have to buy into and agree on this is what this word means, make sentences with it until you understand and you're making this agreement based off Scientology axioms. There's three universes again, yours, mine, and the agreed-upon universe. So, my my viewpoint as the guy looking this up has to go, okay, I'll accept it and I'll buy into this arbitrary that this is what we all agree on that we use to describe something. Okay, so to get other people to understand and have an agreed upon universe, when I use the word pretty, maybe that's the word I'm looking up, and I say it to somebody else, it's an agreed upon arbitrary of that definition. And so when I say it, and Arthur, you just having done the Pro TRs course, what does a communication cycle contain from one person to another?
SPEAKER_01:Yep, so you start with um intention, uh attention uh across um space, yeah, distance space, and then cause distance space, cause distance effect, um, and then attention with uh duplication at the receipt point. That's right, yeah, right. Right, and I think the duplication is the most important part.
SPEAKER_02:And that's exactly where I was headed, is it's duplication. Okay, so how do you how do you duplicate with in a communication cycle? You use arbitrary definitions that are shared throughout society, throughout the word, in a particular language, and when you say it, you know you understand that word, pretty, and you say it across a distance to another terminal, another person with the intention of being duplicated. You could just be looking at something together and say the word pretty, and that person duplicates, understands it as an agreed upon reality of what not what you're talking about. We have to back that up. We have to say, okay, they're going into their database. What does pretty mean? Oh, yeah, that's what pretty means. Okay, yes, that is a pretty rock. Yes, I would agree. The colors are magnificent. Look at all the colors in that rock. Maybe it's petrified wood in the the petrified forest in Arizona. Wow, that is really pretty. Now you have an agreement based off of your intention of duplication of what the word pretty means to them. And they you assume that they know that the word pretty means what it means, and so they go, Yes, it is pretty. That is a state of being, that is axiom 11, that is isness, which is a scale, a very small one, and that correlates to the CDEI scale that we've been talking about. It correlates to wait for it, the awareness scale, too. It's on that scale at the same time, which correlates to the tone scale. Would you not agree? Correct. Correct. Okay, do you see how that works? Okay. Now we can also take our conditions as far as ethics conditions, okay. And if we were just talking about, we've we've we've kind of played out the the definition of the word on the CDEI scale. So we're going to the a larger view for a moment. If we took the ethics conditions and we put them on, and it's a scale from confusion all the way up to power, right? We're all in agreement on that. We we we know the the conditions well enough, the three of us in this podcast, to say that it starts right, it starts at confusion, and and at the top of the scale is power or power change. Okay, so we've all got the same definitions for the most part. I mean, there's about 10,000 words in the English language that people use on any given day to communicate. LRH had a much larger dictionary of words because of his understanding of the English language in having looked the words up, understanding their usage, and then writing stories with them. Okay, so he had a much larger dictionary that he was operating off of based off the tens of thousands of hours that he wrote pulp fiction and then wrote novels, and then took that and discovered hey, wait a minute, this has something to do with making somebody get better. How do I form these words together? In 1948, he wrote the original thesis, which was the first documentation of taking all of these words in a certain order to get a better understanding of yourself and the reactive mind. You see where this is headed?
SPEAKER_00:Total, yeah, totally.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. And it depends on what you're looking at. So if we look at somebody that dietically has a lot going on, and they realize, man, things are really screwed up for me. I'm in confusion on the first dynamic because I can't get anything done in my life because I keep getting re-stimulated. So on the scale of ethics conditions, they realize they're in confusion to a certain tiny degree. I need help. This transfers over and is correlated to the awareness scale, which at the point that you entered the grade chart, all of the levels of improvement as a being, both physically and spiritually, you are at need for change, though, on the scale of conditions, you're in confusion and you're like, I need some help. You see how this works? Yeah, absolutely. That's exactly where you would be right. So if we superimpose the conditions, the ethics conditions onto the tone scale, okay, you've got people who aren't even aware that dianetics and Scientology exist, or that, and and we were just talking about this on our um uh call yesterday on our production call about need for change and how people, you know, they they don't even know that they don't know that they don't know, which is is a whole other scale that isn't in Scientology, but is was just defined by somebody else. So if you don't know that you don't know, you're even below confusion and saying my engrams and secondaries and locks, you haven't you you've never heard of dianetics in Scientology, and you just think the world is full of suffering and pain and it's a shitty experience, right? Right.
SPEAKER_00:You following Arthur? It's just this is just the cards, the cards I was dealt.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, this is just the cards I was dealt. This is how it is. I just have to suffer through it and uh just just hope for a quick painless death and get it over with. Okay, so that's low on the tone scale. That's actually below confusion on the ethics conditions when you superimpose it over on the tone scale. What's at the bottom of the tone scale on the far right? Hiding, hiding, yeah. Okay, so to a certain degree, like, and and this is why LRH says this we can only help those who help themselves. You have to raise them from below, way down in the basement, underneath the foundation, and it's a really hard slog because it's so difficult to deal with them that they don't know that they don't want to know. Because where are they at on the CDEI scale, which is right next door? What's at the bottom of the CDEI scale? Refused. No, that won't that won't work. There's not that's why we ask people, how do you feel about help? Can people be helped? Can you be helped? We've talked about this in the podcast before, right? So you see how all of these scales that we have at Dionyson Scientology are directly correlated to one another at some point. Some are a tiny little bit. If you took all these scales side by side by side by side by side, and you adjusted one up a little and one down a little, and then you put it in this little cubby here in this particular tone level. All of these scales, all of these scales are one big scale. Okay, so back to the ethics of conditions. Somebody says, I'm in confusion. Okay, I need some help. Life sucks. I want to do something about it. Okay, we're gonna just say we're helping those who help themselves for the the brevity of this conversation, they're in confusion. So, what's the first thing we do when somebody comes to us and we want to get them in session? We have to define some things, which is study tech. Because if you don't define what a secondary is, what a lock is, what an n-gram is, what the reactive is, what a somatic is, okay, dynamic procedure, all of this. Okay, so what you're doing is in confusion where they're at on the tone scale, okay. We'll just we'll just leave that for now. They're on the tone scale somewhere, we know that. But ethics conditions on top of that tone scale, they're in confusion. What's the what's the condition for confusion? Give them a stable datum. Yeah, whether it's are whether it's arbitrary or not, just like a map. Where the heck are we? You are here, right? Here, okay. You're in confusion. Here's a stable datum. Is find out where you are. Right. Okay, so what what we've done is is we've said in an ethics condition, poof, here we go. We got a stable datum, grab onto it. All right. So when we go back over to our axiom 11, where is that in the states of being? Isness, alter isness, not isness, and adds isness. We're giving them an isness.
SPEAKER_00:Right, we're giving we're giving them an isness on where they are right now.
SPEAKER_02:Right, right. So that is the isness. You have a stable datum. I know one thing. I know I need help. Okay, we got that understood. Here's this thing called the reactive mind. Give me some sentences using it. You understand the definition. Okay, now you have another stable datum. And then we clear another word and we clear another word and we clear another word. Okay, so we're going from the isness of they know one stable datum to finding out that they have an alter-isness and a not isness both on what these things actually are in our terms. Because these terms don't exist in an Earth American Heritage Dictionary or whatever dictionary it is that you're using. LRH had to make new terms because they heretofore, up until 1950, all the way to present time and 2025, we're still doing what? We're taking our concepts that don't exist in an in a in an earth dictionary, and we're saying these are real things. Yeah, we're taking people and giving, we're giving them a stable datum that they never had before because we're defining terms that they're not aware of, didn't exist, your universe, my universe, our universe on the CDEI scale. They were at refused and no and enforced and inhibited. And all of a sudden, once you give these things to them and they go, wait a minute, I've seen this in my own life, all of a sudden they get very curious. Yeah. See how these correlate?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And and that's people who are actually reaching for the breeze, they're reaching to to get some help, they're reaching to get in session, they're reaching to get uh uh on course because they are now curious about their own well-being, they're curious about themselves, they're curious about their life.
SPEAKER_02:Right, because they've actually come up to some sort of understand, though they still are in confusion as a being, and they've said, okay, I will accept these truths because I see that they are applicable and I can use them. Okay, so this is the gradient scale. You're you're depending on this the scope of what you're looking at with the ethics conditions superimposed on the tone scale, you have all these tiny little cycles of confusion to power, confusion to power, confusion to power, confusion to power. As you define terms for a person, whether it's in Scientology, whether it's in the English language, or it's in Mandarin, you are you are establishing confusion to power, confusion to power, definition by definition by definition. And then that goes out into a bigger picture of application, applying definition, application. So you're coming up the confusion from confusion into power. I now know what pretty means. Now I can form a sentence, I understand sentence structure, I understand how to convey it across to somebody using the communication course and get the person to understand what it is that I'm saying because I know how to communicate. I can come impel it across to them, and they duplicate it because I know that they are at a similar tone level, at a similar ethics condition, at a similar awareness scale that I am. This is what all of these gradient scales are comprised of. Now I'm gonna go go on a tiny little deep dive that we got into that LRH discovered way back in the 60s, as painful as it is for Quentin. Back in the 60s, back in the 60s, LRH had such a command, a control, an understanding, a duplication of the English language, when in 1961-62, LRH was looking for faster roots to clear. And so he decided that each tone level had varying degrees of a scale down to the use of one word, one concept. So between 1.0 and 1.1, and I don't know the actual number because I have to go look it up in the technical volumes, he defined all of the varying degrees between 1.0 and 1.1 on the tone scale, with the English language alone as a single word. That's how fine we have of a command of the tone scale, of the English language, of the state of a being and their viewpoint in between those two tiny levels of the tone scale. Does that make sense to you, Quentin? Did I did I describe it well enough for you to understand based off of everything we've talked about in the podcast? Same for you, Arthur.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it it it it moves. So in between that, there's there's uh movement, there's happenings, this, there's phenomena, there's things happening in between each state.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And then what they would do with these particular descriptions of that time, it's like you know, variations. If you were to look at the the the difference between 1.0 on the tone scale, which is an emotion, and 1.1 on the tone scale, we are looking at the varying hundredths, because we can we can measure this now in science in physics, the hundredths or thousandths of a degree between 32 degrees and 31 degrees. We have sensors that are that delicate and can tell you down to the thousandth decimal place. LRH did the same thing in emotional tone level from 1.0 to 1.1 in 1961, 62. So what he was trying to do is he was trying to map out the tone scale based off of the significances of these words between 1.1 and 1.2. Now, here's where it gets really interesting is because in 1961-62, they didn't have study tech yet. I uh can you see how difficult this could have been for someone? Yeah, study tech world, right? Study tech didn't come along until 1964-65. It wasn't really uh codified, it wasn't all put in writing, which he was very good at, for another three, four years. I feel very empathetic towards those those auditors and those PCs because you're you're you're taking this person and person in session with these varying degrees between, and we're just using this as an example to keep it simple. You're taking those varying degrees between one point 1.0 and 1.1, and you're assessing them. You have the person on the cans on the meter, and you're assessing those words, the inner workings of a particular tone level moving up from 1.0 to 1.1, and finding out where that meter reads in between that tiny little gap. And then you're you're looking for a goal, a goal based off of that significance of that word in between 1.0 and one 1.1. That is what is called the pre-haviness scale. He did this, worked it up and down, worked it up and down until he got it right, the proper sequence of the concepts of significance between an emotional tone level, degree by degree, and in between. That is the gradient, the most high-resolution gradient of a scale ever produced on planet earth by any living or dead man. This is what makes up Scientology, and all of that correlates micro to macro, back over through all of our scales, tone scale, as isness, CDEI scale, or when I say as this is axiom 11, the states of being, correlates over to CDEI scale, correlates over to the chart of human awareness, correlates over to all of the scales. They're all interrelated. He had such an understanding of all of these things, and he said, I need uh there's this other way that I need to get this across, whether it was ethics conditions, whether it was um the data series and outpoints and plus points, these are all scales of awareness, these are all scales of Axiom 11, these are all scales of the tone scale. This is what dianetics and Scientology, everything is defined in dianetics and Scientology. But you have to have somebody that can take this information from the basic of I don't know, but I know I need to know because things aren't the way they are. To I know, but I could I could learn more, to I always want to know, I want to understand, and I know that these are the agreed-upon rules of the physical universe that I need to apply in order to know more. And that includes what auditing is, that includes how auditing works, and this isn't just in dianetics and Scientology, it applies to everything else. You've got a blueprint, you've got the best blueprint you could ever have because it doesn't just apply to dynetics and Scientology. All of these scales correlate. We looked this up earlier in the podcast, they all work together in conjunction one with the other, and they're all superimposed over the tone scale, the chart of human awareness, the awareness scale, the grade chart, CDEI, and there's a ton of other scales that go along with it that go outside the scope because we're going to confuse people too much. But it all comes down to at some point, as you get more auditing, you start to realize words don't have a significance anymore. I'm serious. I'm serious. Yeah, they don't have a significance anymore because what you're doing is you're holding yourself back, and and you realize I'm holding myself back on this concept that I have to use words, which we did a podcast almost two years ago about that at some point you realize I don't need to use these significances because it's an arbitrary agreement, and I can just impel my thought over to somebody else without giving them any mass in the physical universe.
SPEAKER_00:It's just no.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh, you're that's the OT levels.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you're hitting on something really, really strongly because LRH talks about that. Um that very thing in this lecture he did on scales, it's called scales. And he actually talks about getting to a point where telepathy is really how you would kind of communicate that. Like you would uh it's the people who are in total telepathy are either the total bottom of the scale or the total top of the scale. Like, so like if they're if they're like being bombarded with oh, this what about this? What about this? And they think about this and they looking at this and they see them, they're at the total bottom of the scale, right? Or that they're at the total top of the scale where they're able to communicate their thoughts telepathically, right?
SPEAKER_02:Right, because you what you what you've done once you get out of the way.
SPEAKER_00:And at the bottom, they're at total effect.
SPEAKER_02:Go ahead. They're at they're at total effect, they don't know that they don't know. That's unconscious incompetence. They don't know that they don't know, right? But there's con there's conscious incompetent incompetence that comes next because now you're aware I don't know everything. Well, this is what all these scales are describing, including the axioms, which is the roadmap as to how to create these scales in the physical universe, and he defined it through these scales, through the axioms, trying to get people to realize that they don't know, they don't know, to where they know they don't know, and they want to do something about it. That's the CDEI scale. Yes, so you get to a point, you you have to you have to approach it on a gradient. When you tell somebody, hey, you know, you live more than once, what do they do? Refuse. Right. Okay, so what he did is okay, I gotta back this up. I gotta back this up, I gotta back this up because I'm I'm throwing too much out there to them that's not real to them. This goes back to what is a gradient? ARC, which equals understanding. And so in 1950, he was like, Okay, I'm trying to get this across to people. We're trying to make a better route to clear, and and so it would be refined, refined, refined, refined. He himself was in a state of unconscious incompetence, and he realized it and said, Okay, I need to find out that I don't know. Oh, wait, I found out that oh wait, okay, and so he did that over and over, and then he put it in writing and he said, Okay, here are the rules of the game. Oh, wait, they're not gonna get this. I gotta back it up, I gotta refine it. Here are the rules of the game. Oh, wait, I gotta back it up. And as time went on, and as he created the bridge, he realized that society was going down faster than he could educate them. So, what did he do? He had to keep cutting the gradient on the scale of awareness, and what he ended up with ultimately was he couldn't even get people to do TRs and objectives because education was so poor and they didn't know they didn't know, which was on purpose, not by those people that were trying to learn, but by the people that were educating them, because dumb people are much easier to control. And he saw this and he knew it. What he did was he developed the key to life course, which includes the dictionaries on small common words and how grammar is used in the English language. Now, with AI, you could take those dictionaries and you could put them in every language on the planet in a matter of minutes. But the thing is, is you still have to apply that gradient, which is word clearing, which means you have to start with the basics because if you assume anything, you're dead. What's the first thing you do? What are the basic building blocks of the English language? The small common words, be, and all of its forms, depending on whether you're talking about in the past, now, or in the future. And you conjugate that verb. He understood this at the end of all of his research is that he knew people couldn't duplicate the materials and were at a complete not is and not know an unconscious incompetence that the only way and the lowest undercut. Of the gradient on all of the scales that we've talked about in this podcast. This was the only way, in most cases, that you were going to get a lot the balance of the population because of the state of the education system in our society. Again, my reality, your reality, agreed upon reality, stupidity. What does Delaring say about stupidity in the axioms, Quentin?
SPEAKER_00:Oh, stupidity is not. Oh gosh. I have to look it up. I'll look at it. It's not being there. Let me see.
SPEAKER_02:Axiom, it's uh axiom 38, I believe.
SPEAKER_00:Axiom number. 38? Stupidity is the unknownness of consideration.
SPEAKER_02:There we go.
SPEAKER_00:It's the unknownness of consideration. Stupidity is the unknownness of time, place, form, and event.
SPEAKER_02:Right. Right. Okay, so time, place, form, and event. Okay, what is a derivation of a word? Time, place, form, and event. Yeah. It used it used to be used old English. Wow. From old old French. Okay. So when you're defining a word and you're looking at the derivation, you clear all the the in the simplest dictionary, in LRH's dictionary, you know what he omits? The derivation, because it's a skipped gradient of time, place, form, and event. It's too confusing for the person. He had to conf he had to undercut that gradient, give pictures in the small common words defined dictionary that he wrote himself over and above all the other dictionaries out there that have confused how all of these concepts work with small common words. And he said, check this shit out. These are the definitions in the most simplest way that they can be put, because he had such a mastery of how we conjugate words, meaning time time, place, form, and event in the past, time, place, form, an event in the present, time, place, form an event in the future. This is the lexicon, the definition of how this word works and all of its use cases. Once the person understands that and you've cleared that word, now you have a correct fundamental reality: your universe, my universe, and agreed upon universe. This is the most fundamental you can make it for someone. You follow? Yes. This is what he did, and this was the gradient scale undercut for everything. Now, I'm not saying everybody has to do this, but this is what he had to do. Now you look at the big scale, you're saying, okay, this is how we communicate. This is what this is the first step at the bottom of the bridge. This is how we communicate, and these are the arbitrary definitions that we're all agreeing upon exist. Time, place, form, and event. Time, place, form, and event, time, place, form, and event. This is what it means. Okay, now we can communicate, we can get duplication on the other side. Here's the definition of an engram. And the person goes, Oh, I get it. Give me a sentence. An engram is da-da-da-da-da-da-da. Okay, good. Give me another sentence. An engram, I did so I had an engram. Good. Okay, you understand that. And then at the bottom of the bridge, from there all the way to the top of the bridge, you look at it and you go, I don't need these words anymore. But he had to do that because if you said you have more than one life and you committed overts and you did all this and you were in this valence, and da-da-da-da-da-da-da, it's not real to them because they don't understand it on the proper scale of gradients to get them to get there, to have that reality, to unwind all of those considerations and postulates, to get them to take responsibility for all of that stuff, as is it, which is part of the scale over and over and over and over and over, from not is to as is to isness to as isness. So you have all of this wrapped in, all of these scales are part of auditing and training. And that's why training and auditing, 50% is auditing, 50% is training. Is because you have to get this data to be able to climb that ladder of awareness, climb that ladder of ability to the point to where at some point you realize towards the latter part of the bridge, you know what? I can communicate with myself in solo session and my composite case without words. It's much quicker. But the thing is, is you couldn't have done it if you hadn't done it. It's sort of like, well, how could we create bronze and steel and all of this stuff? Well, you had to have fire first, didn't you? Mm-hmm. All gradient scales. So there's scales, they're all side by side next to each other, and they all fall within each other in correlation. And this is how this happens, even down to between one tone level and another. He gave us a roadmap until it worked, concept by concept, 1.0 to 1.1, all the way to serenity of beingness. It's in the technical volumes, and it's a massive document. Feed that to AI.
SPEAKER_00:Wow.
SPEAKER_02:Which which we have.
SPEAKER_00:Well, yeah, because right now I'm I'm looking at the small words dictionary, the small common words dictionary, which we have uh available in the LRH library, and it's 752 pages of just words, common words, right?
SPEAKER_02:And that's just definitions with pictures to give appropriate mass in a proper scale of usage and significance, and cleared one by one with the key to life course, and that was and it's part of the key to life course something the church failed, something the church failed to do and get right. Now I have my own opinions on that and why why it failed in the get right, but you know, if you want to control somebody, you don't want to make them terribly intelligent, you just want their money. Sorry, just saying. Okay, so we we have the tech, and we've described the tech from the viewpoint of scales and gradients of those scales from minor to major. Every check sheet we have in our online course room is minor to major. You have to be able to get up and sit before you can actually stand, before you can actually have balance in standing, and then put one foot in front of the other. That's how our courses are laid out by LRH before the church changed them. This guy gets it, and he's trying to give it to you. So excellent. I hope this makes sense to everybody. And if you have any questions, post them on YouTube, and we will have a conversation about it, and we will be making videos on this subject in the very near future. We've got some incredibly exciting developments coming for AOGP, all under one umbrella, using AI and much, much, much more to help you approach these scales appropriately, understand them, apply them, and at some point, my friend, you the listener, will have the ability of telepathy and you won't have to think about things. You'll just know them and make them happen. You can do this. Yes, you can for Quentin and Arthur. We hope you enjoyed this podcast. Namaste, and we love you. Bye bye. Peace out.