Episode #151 - Finally Making Money on Materials!- w/Yanni Koutmos- Eagle MMS

Episode Notes: 

Is your paint department struggling to show a profit every month, even though you’re mixing across the scale, watching your waste & stopped doing blends for FREE?

Are you sick & tired of being told by the insurance companies that most of your non-paint materials are just “a cost of doing business”?

Have you squeezed the life out of your suppliers, put undue stress on those valuable relationships, just trying to make up for what the insurance carriers have wrongly denied you… and still not as profitable as you should be??

Would you like to learn a way to end all that madness & start FINALLY making real money on paint & materials?

Harness the power of tech innovation in the collision industry with our special guest this episode, Yanni Koutmos. Along with his business partner and brother, Alex, the software wizard behind their program, which has become the ultimate paint and material software system that's revolutionizing profitability in paint departments. Yanni recounts his fascinating journey transitioning from studying medicine to becoming a collision tech, and how a global pandemic fast-tracked the creation of Eagle MMS. 

 Join us, as we dive into how this game-changer software equips you with a simple system to properly document, invoice and get reimbursed for all the materials used during the refinishing process! Explore the obstacles and rapid expansion of developing a software product specifically for the auto repair industry. We also discuss the varying responses from industry players, highlighting the crucial role of efficient communication and documentation in the claims process. 

Finally, we'll examine the value proposition Eagle MMS brings to the auto repair world. From billing any part number from any manufacturer to its unique mapping pathway feature, Eagle MMS is truly a comprehensive solution. Yanni provides insights into the possible impacts on the auto repair landscape and the gratification of working hands-on in this dynamic industry. All this and more, in this revealing episode!

Guest Info: Yanni Koutmos-CEO/Founder of EagleMMS.com

·        Website: EagleMMS - https://eaglemms.com/

·        LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yanni-koutmos-ba2597242/

·        EagleMMS users FB Group: https://www.fa

Transcript

Rick: 0:00

Recently, I had the great opportunity to interview one of those paradigm shifters in the collision world, someone that I truly respect and admire. His software system is taking the collision industry by storm, helping shops crank up the profitability in their paint departments and putting the insurance carriers on their heads. Whether you're an MSO group, independent shop owner or dealer collision center, his program can help make massive difference on your bottom line.

Rick: 0:30

Welcome to the MindWrench podcast with your host, rick Selover, where minor adjustments produce major improvements in mindset, personal growth and success. This is the place to be every Monday, where we make small improvements and take positive actions in our business and personal lives that will make a major impact in our success, business level, growth and quality of life.

Rick: 0:59

Hey, what's up everybody. Welcome to the MindWrench podcast. I'm your host, rick Selover. Thanks so much for stopping in. If you're a returning listener and haven't done so already, please take a minute and click the follow or subscribe button, and then rate and review the show. When you rate and review the show, the algorithms for Apple, spotify, google podcasts, iheart radio, amazon music and all the other platforms will see that it's valuable and show it to more people that have never seen it before, and hopefully it can help them too. I would really, really really appreciate your help, sharing this word with your friends and family as well, and if you're a brand new listener, welcome. I hope you find something of value here that helps you in your personal or professional life as well. Please make sure to click the subscribe or follow button so you never miss another episode.

Rick: 1:43

Recently, I had the great opportunity to interview one of those paradigm shifters in the collision world, someone that I truly respect and admire. His software system is taking the collision industry by storm, helping shops crank up the profitability in their paint departments and putting the insurance carriers on their heads. Whether you're an MSO group, independent shop owner or dealer collision center, his program can help make massive difference on your bottom line. He's a former pre-med student turned collision tech that, with the software genius of his business partner and brother, has launched a paint and material building system that has been in the spotlight and is generating millions of dollars for shops across America. This week, my special guest is Yanni , co-founder of the ultimate paint and material software system, Eagle MMS so let's get to that interview,

Yanni: 2:32

Thank You for that very warm welcome and thanks for having me.

Rick: 2:37

You got it. Glad we could finally make the time. I know we've talked a few times at a few different industry events and you know, being an ex-painter, it really gets me excited when I see stuff like this, because it's those things that I wish I had, the tools I wish I had back when I painted. And being on this driv-a-rand and working with so many shops over the years and seeing the pains that they've had, it's really cool to see something like Eagle MMS out there. So it's very exciting. Number one, congratulations on the success you've had so far. I know you had the talk of the party at most places that you've gone to, which is it's got to be kind of cool and kind of overwhelming, I would imagine. So, if you can, I know this is a fairly new company and a fairly new program we talked earlier and I know it started in about 2020, but can you kind of just maybe for the listeners, give us just a quick history background on kind of how you got to 2020 and launching this baby?

Yanni: 3:38

So at the time I was a technician that recently kind of left due to COVID and hours drying up. So COVID flipped the whole world on its head and I was just working at home for an interim period until I found a job that was busy again because I was flat rate, so the hours just disappeared and the highways dried up. So yeah, during that time I basically was working at home. And then the founding story here is my brother and I went on a little road trip to Maine. He's got a cabin up there and he was voicing to me some frustrations. I think he was just after his second failed startup and he's telling me usually when there's a good SaaS company software as a service there's two founders someone who's in industry that has a problem and then someone who's a more tech oriented founder to head the development. So he literally asked me point blank what are the problems in your industry? And I'm like we've got quite a few, as it turns out. So for me, top of mind was materials, because I was doing side work out of my house on the weekends, I was doing quick bumper jobs and stuff and I was always blown away at how expensive everything was. It wasn't until I actually started correctly quantifying the cost of everything that goes into a job that I realized there was such a delta and then from that point on it was like a year of silent development.

Yanni: 5:09

We did a soft launch last January. The first model of our software was primarily QR code scanning. I thought if we could just bypass cabinets and have an agnostic system with checkouts, that would be the trick. But we didn't really gain any real market traction with that. And then we added some new features to the system. We made it something that the writer could write top to bottom, where they had itemized control over all the part numbers and there was a link between part numbers and ops performed. And then we kind of launched those features late last year and then this January a bomb went off. We also partnered up with collision hub and a couple other business development ventures. That went really, really well. So it popped off this year. I'd call this year our hard launch. Last year was our soft launch and market learning phase.

Rick: 6:01

So I would say the timing is you couldn't have planned this any better, yanni, to be perfectly honest. So, as you well know, and most people know, that just in the past year, year and a half, there's been a big spike in shops kind of pushing back towards insurance carriers raising the rates, billing for more processes than they've ever billed for before, and these are all processes they've been doing for free. It's like everybody kind of started doing it at the same time and I've seen labor rates jump all over the United States. You know some four, six, eight, $10 at a jump, which is just crazy. As long as I've been in this business, I've never seen that.

Rick: 6:41

And I'm seeing guys, you know, that are itemizing and repairing cars correctly and documenting everything, and just a phenomenal growth in what that RO looks like when they're doing it right. And I itemizing everything, and this paint material part of it was always the piece that still kind of wasn't there right. So I think you guys launched this at the exact right time, because now, you know, I don't know what the pushbacks like and we're going to get into that a little bit, but I just I think it's incredible timing and I'm happy for you that you did it, when you did it.

Yanni: 7:19

I couldn't have planned it better if I knew it was right before the inflationary spike, and I think a lot of what we're seeing out of shops is I mean, shops generally are reactionary, but it's almost like there's really no choice left because a lot of the margins that padded the edges of profit those kind of disappeared when material costs went up. Labor shortages is continually deepening and if shops don't get clever with how they're going to document and, you know, write their jobs and then sell those jobs which is a really, I think, still overlooked portion of it is how you sell it to the vehicle owner, because you have to do that prior to any dealings with any carriers that you see those processes slowly improving. So that's a good indication.

Rick: 8:07

Have you ever looked in the mirror and said to yourself how come I'm not further along than this? Or why can't I ever seem to get ahead? Are you frustrated with life, unsure of your future, wanting to make a change in your current situation, but too scared to make that next move? Maybe you want to reach that next level in life or in your business, but not sure what the right move is. Or maybe you feel the best thing to do is nothing at all.

Rick: 8:29

Many of you may not know but, along with hosting my own weekly podcast, I'm a personal development mindset, business and life coach where I focus on helping people with self development, mindset and how to make positive changes in their lives. And, trust me, with all the negativity we've had to deal with these past two years, I think we all need some positivity, positive change and a fresh approach to our life or our business. Sometimes talking to the right person can make all the difference. If you really want to start making those changes in your life, take action right now. Reach out and email, text, call or direct message me as soon as possible. Do it right now. I'll set you up with a free consultation call and pre-qualify you for either the one-on-one or business coaching that you really need to get your life or your business on the right track to success. Appointments are available right now. Yeah, that's a whole another training opportunity right there just trying to get customers.

Rick: 9:23

I've worked with lots of customers about how to have those conversations and it's an art and a science really and it's going to take a while for some people to learn and some people catch on fairly quickly.

Rick: 9:34

But, to your point, they need to have those conversations, they need to get that message correct, because at the end of the day, I mean, shops are in business, for usually their main reason is to make a living, make money, be profitable, employ employees, be a profitable part of their community and things like that. And to do that, I mean shops really need to make sure they're collecting for whatever they're doing. I mean there's not that many businesses out there just do a third of their work for free and stay in business. So I don't know how we've done it for so many years, but when you decided to launch this with your brother, alex, did you have any? I know we all have limiting beliefs about, you know, taking a jump or making a change or starting something new, or usually most entrepreneurs. They have to get past that fairly quickly. So did you have any concerns that this wouldn't work or you'd get massive pushback from shop owners going? There's no way I could bill for that. You know I'm not interested.

Yanni: 10:36

How'd that go? Like that was basically all of last year was the difficulty with you know shop saying it won't work, or you know the pushback from carriers. And I guess when you believe fervently in something, you find a way to make it work. Maybe not your initial vision but, like I, just kept adapting the software, making small changes, implementing new features, until you know it became like a good product, market fit. So I didn't take it in discouragement, I was just like, okay, this isn't working, I have to make it better, this isn't working, I have to make this better. And it's just this constant cycle of reiteration until I find the mark there's.

Yanni: 11:17

There's nothing you could do, like day one and this is with you know people's body shops too there's nothing you can implement. That day one is just going to suddenly magically work. It's probably going to suck at first and that's okay. Like it's always, the first step in getting kind of good at something is sucking. So I'm proud to say we sucked all the last year and this year we're killing it. So you got to get through the suck first, I get it. You got to get through the nose and through the rejections.

Yanni: 11:42

It's just part of it. So if you can figure out how many knows there are to a. Yes, that just then you know what your ratio is. If it's like nine nos to one, yes, well, I want to figure out how to get through those nos as fast as possible. So, but also adapting your model, making sure it's a better and fit. All the time and we're still doing that even today. That hasn't stopped. We take customer feedback all the time so that we can figure out how to tweak and tune it so that it's it says dangerous of a weapon as possible, right.

Rick: 12:11

So what has been the feedback from the shops that have, you know, decided okay, yeah, I'm going to try this.

Yanni: 12:19

Very variable. So you would think that you know carriers have some like blanket policy across the country. They'd be consistent, but it's it's very much broken down into individual zip codes, so even within the same state. So some people implement and they just have great success, no problems. It's very much smooth sailing on every RO. Some shops have a problem with a carrier or two. This is probably the most common category and then some shops have like very difficult rejections from almost every carrier and it's a real problem. And the funny thing is is we're talking about the same you know couple major insurance carriers. So why is it in one zip code they have this, you know concerted response, and then in other zip codes it's a whole different story. So there's really no consistency from the other side.

Yanni: 13:09

I try to be consistent in how I coach, you know, shops through it and I'm not saying I'm the most qualified person to do that either.

Yanni: 13:16

I'm just sharing things that I know work and I've learned from smarter people than myself. But it's it's a very solid plan to just sell the repair to your, to the vehicle owner, because in every trade, everywhere there's ever been, everyone's responsible for marketing their, their skills. You know selling a ticket what their bill is going to be and what the work is that they're doing and then executing on that work and shops kind of shy away from that because it's a difficult conversation to have. So if you have that conversation with the customer day one and you can control the narrative through the claims process before anyone else gets involved, you're much more likely to be successful in the outcome of that claim. So that remains the same. That's what I try to tell shops to do, and the success is varying. That's just the truth. It depends how they approach, how they negotiate it, who they're talking to and what's going on. There's a lot of detail out there.

Rick: 14:13

I would imagine it depends on personal relationships, you know, and how how shops approach it with their carriers, because I don't think the carriers all use the exact same playbook from state to state or zip code to zip code. I think a lot of it's still based on personalities on both sides. So you get insurance companies, you got a real hard-nosed senior supervisor or something and he's probably going to push back more in his market. But I still think a lot of it probably would lean on the shops themselves and how they present the information and how they document it and the attitude or tone that they take, because I know, dealing with a lot of shops over my career, there's a lot of guys that just will piss on their weedies immediately when they're talking to insurance company. You know, you guys screwed me on the last three jobs, you're not screwing me on this one. Well, that usually doesn't set the right tone for that conversation, right? It's combative off the bat? Yeah, exactly.

Yanni: 15:06

Not that it happens very often, but I've even isolated it down, like I talk about zip codes. You could be talking about two shops in the same zip code dealing with the same adjuster that have a different response. Big go. And that's like how do you reconcile that? So it's not the carrier, it's not the policy, it's not even the adjuster. Then it's the shop and you see that quite a bit. It's how you know. How's your documentation? How's your communication? How are you answering the phone? Take a Joe's body shop what do you want? And it's like oh okay, I know, because I call these shops all day myself. I see the range of responses from like someone who's happy to answer the phone and talk to you versus someone who's like I'm interrupting them. You know.

Rick: 15:50

Yeah, it's funny, I've seen a lot of that too, but I don't want to.

Rick: 15:53

I love this industry so I won't bash it, but the reality is there's plenty of room for improvement. If you're a shop owner and I think the best thing any shop owner can do is educate themselves and listen to other folks in this industry that are having success, because obviously you know you can follow success will have its patterns and they probably experience the same types of things. I love doing this podcast because it gives me an opportunity to get guys like you on here to share some of that knowledge, share some of those success stories and hopefully inspire some others to make some changes in how they do this. So I remember when we talked about this, I was curious about how long that working model took to develop, and it sounds like it was a very short period of time. I mean, you guys had a conversation in the course of a drive and, if I heard right, you developed the whole structure of what this thing is the name website, all that crap in about a six hour drive. Is that right?

Yanni: 16:52

Yeah, so after my brother posed me that question, I think we had our preliminary model of how the software was going to work and what it was going to do, and we picked the name too on that drive and we bought the web domain the next morning. So yeah, it was a pretty, and my brother and I have that which, we're very fortunate, is very tight iteration cycles. We usually don't have the answer on the first go, but we redevelop and reiterate until we have the right answer within as short a span as possible, from initial development to even individual features. It's like, okay, let's screw it up first, because we're going to we always do and then we'll just iterate until it's not a screw up anymore and it's a positive feature and that lifecycle is very, very short.

Rick: 17:38

Awesome. Well, listen, yanni, let's dig into. So what exactly is Eagle, mms? And?

Yanni: 17:44

what exactly does it do? So it's an itemized invoicing program for all part numbers in the repair process. So one of the openings we saw, even three years ago, was any solution that exists is usually centered around a certain manufacturer or a certain materials category. So it's like this is just a clip system, this is just body materials, this is just paint On the paint side. There's nothing better than just the scale itself, alphen and reporting to the RO. So everything is just boxed into its own lane. And we wanted to develop something that was comprehensive enough for the whole repair process Any UPC that touches the vehicle, any material category, any material manufacturer. So that was kind of the initial hypothesis and that was one of the things that's remained the same the whole time, as that agnosticity. So you can bill any part number from any manufacturer for any part of the job. And another twist we've put on it is we don't need to engage, like, even though the functionality is there with the QR codes, we don't need to engage the technician on this process.

Yanni: 18:51

I was a body man. I can tell you if I'm working on a car, I don't want to check out a piece of sandpaper, I want to fix a car. Leave me alone. I have my earbuds in.

Yanni: 18:59

So we wanted to create a pathway between what's being done at the car at a high level and then the part numbers in the shop responsible for performing that operation. So we created I call it a mapping pathway. We created that mapping pathway between what I'm doing and what I need, and the user interface is easy enough that I can just select things in bulk like that. So that was, I'd say, the second winning feature is the mapping pathway between what I'm doing and what part numbers I need. That effectively allowed it to be in the appraisers hands, doesn't involve the tech, doesn't involve any proprietary hardware scanners, cabinets, whatever it's just all in the hands of the writer and they're the ones at the end of the day writing the car and negotiating the ticket, dealing with the customer doing all of that. So having it part of their process but still easy, like an easy interaction, was the right place inside the business to place that operation.

Rick: 19:59

Yeah, usually technicians do not want to get involved in that part of it. They just want to make sure they're getting paid right. So do you see a difference, with some painters wanting to be more involved in that Because they feel like this is my domain back here? I know it's going on back here so I should be writing those estimates. I know what I'm using back here.

Yanni: 20:18

Are they pretty comfortable just letting their writers handle that Not on the text part, not really. I mean, a good painter who's clean cut to the tee will log their pores under the arrow, which is great because then you can pull that data. We're integrated with AxonObal. If that live pore is accurate, then you can pull it in and import it into the invoice with our system. A lot of times I have to remind shops like if you're pulling that live pore, make sure that your body men are actually logging to their primer, because that's the common culprit. Body men won't pour the primer under the arrow or they'll batch prime and you don't know what volume is associated with each car. But no, the techs are quite frankly happy to be rid of it because they don't want to bother. And even a well-meaning tech at some point is going to either check out something they don't use or they're going to use something they don't check out Right. Replacing that whole flow with just some well-structured logic was definitely a winning path for us.

Rick: 21:20

Awesome. So your system integrates with the paint scales of I'm going to assume, all the manufacturers, or all the main manufacturers.

Yanni: 21:27

Just AxonObal at the moment. Just AxonObal. We are entering more talks for more integrations with more paint makes, and I hope that goes well.

Rick: 21:37

But when you're using your system you can simulate exactly what you did on a scale. So let's say you're using Exalt or PPG or VSF or something and you've got a shop where they're actually doing job costing or they're mixing over the scale, like this should be so with your system. I know it had the outlines of all the vehicles on there and you can just click on there and actually input it directly to that.

Yanni: 22:01

Yeah, so you can click on the panels of a vehicle, like what body model you're working on, what panels you're refinishing, and then what level of refinish you're performing on that panel, and it'll give you a volumetric allotment. So it'll still forecast fluid pours and at the end of the claim you can just reconcile and rectify that manually. In my experience we're pretty much within 5% or 10% of the live pour, so it's very good at forecasting.

Rick: 22:27

Okay, and I did notice you can actually dive in a little deeper on that and get those sub sections Of the, you know, under the skin stuff. You can actually calculate paint and materials needed on those parts as well, right, like frame rails and stuff.

Yanni: 22:44

All by part number. Yeah, in structural areas as well B pillars, a pillars, rear body panels, spray out cards, brackets, hinges, anything on a vehicle that might take up fluid volume. We have a model for that can be invoiced.

Rick: 22:58

Oh, that's fantastic. Now does that also integrate with some of the platforms out there, some of the software systems like CCC or Auditex, Mitchell, those types of things?

Yanni: 23:08

So CCC, mitchell, webbest, auditext all the big ones export in a common file structure known as EMS. They all export EMS. So if you, if you set up your export directory which you can do in each platform and you zip that folder up and drag it into Eagle, it'll populate all of the RO data. So I don't have to key it or, excuse me, double keying. I don't have to key it in the system when I create the work file and then I don't have to come back to Eagle and then type out all that same information over again. First, last name, your name model claim number, et cetera.

Yanni: 23:43

So when you drag and drop the EMS zip file, you can populate all that information automatically.

Rick: 23:49

Okay, you just cover that when you do your initial training with the shafts right.

Yanni: 23:53

Yeah, yeah. So I also have some training videos up for it.

Rick: 23:57

So what other? What other features are part of Eagle? So I understand that the billing part and I know it captures everything and it includes sandpapers and nuts and bolts and clips and every little facet of materials or items that you're going to use, short of parts, correct?

Yanni: 24:16

Yep, it's, it's, it's a very comprehensive model for everything materials that's specifically based for invoicing. We haven't gotten involved in like the domestic management part of it because, again, like I said, you'll have a technician who will check something out that they don't use, or they'll use something they don't check out, and then that discrepancy between digital and physical inventory always has to get reconciled, so we just don't even step into that ballpark. It's all about invoicing.

Rick: 24:45

Well, that's good, because I've seen plenty of cabinet systems and they are. They're great concepts and great ideas. And if, if you in a perfect world, they're awesome, but we don't live in a perfect world, in the shops and there's always a technician at least one, if not 10 that will shortcut the system. You know, instead of grabbing one tube of something, they grab in three tubes, but they're marking one, right, so it's. It then throws inventory off, it throws usage off and obviously it's going to throw the material profitability off as well, because it won't be right. So so this has nothing to do with cabinets, nothing to do with storage. It's strictly just billing the things that you're using and having something that's documentable and Can be used as a supplement. Now you guys actually created an invoice with yours, right? Yep? And how does that work for the customer? Do they allow it? Is it show as an invoice From the customer to the insurance company, or is it showing invoice from Eagle to the shop?

Yanni: 25:47

So it, the invoice bears are branding, but it's it's ultimately from the shop to To the insurance company because and there's some speculation out there Should I put my vendor info? Because I buy it from them, that's great, but at the end of the day the shop is the one selling it to the customer via the repair. So I done. I kind of have to reiterate that with shops like you're, the one selling these materials, you know you buy it from distribution and distribution buys it from the manufacturer. The manufacturer buys it from some mineral mind. You know everybody's buying it from somewhere.

Yanni: 26:22

But at this stage in the chain you're the one selling it. So yeah, it's it's shop to insurance. Every now and then you get the pushback from a carrier. I can't pay it unless it's a vendor receipt. I was like why? Why does my vendor have to do the accounting for my job? It's my job right. You know it's an absurd notion. So yeah, I've heard that from shops.

Rick: 26:43

I've heard that request before, you know. Well, we needed, we need an invoice from the who we buy our stuff from. I've always thought why would you need that? Yeah, you know, the jobbers not billing the customer, I mean the end user, which is a shop, or the Vehicle owner. So yeah, the whole notion seemed kind of silly.

Yanni: 27:02

So there's even. There's even statutes that say you cannot sell at or below cost like there's. I call them BCS laws. You cannot sell at or below cost. It was written more for the Walmart's of the world so they don't move into a territory and sell below China direct to kill the domestic competition. The laws don't say any of that, just as you cannot sell below your own cost. There's two reasons it's it's anti competitive you know it hurts the marketplace and to its for tax purposes, like the state wants you to sell at a retail so that they can charge, you know. So you can charge the revenue and the the state gets the revenue income. So it's, and there's explicit statutes for that in most states.

Rick: 27:43

So right it doesn't matter what you buy for you.

Yanni: 27:46

You can't sell it for what you buy for right.

Rick: 27:48

No, that makes sense, but that's first time I heard anybody even mention that, so I'm sure most shops don't even know that exists. Yep, so what makes? And I've taken a good look at the, at the system, and I really, I really like it. But I know there's a couple of the systems out there. So what would you say is a differentiator between Eagle and maybe the some of the other paint material billing systems out there?

Yanni: 28:12

Again, agnostic and no need for domestic hardware. So that's the big differentiator from from cabinet driven systems. There is also, like RMC, calculator which, I'll be honest, I like, I think it's, I think it's a good system. It's good to have, you know, as many, as many tools in your kit as possible. Sure, so I like RMC. It is based on ours, so it does have the vulnerability that if you can't recoup Refinish hours like those not included refinish hours, and guess what? 40% of them are not included, then it has that vulnerability. But for for a writer who knows what they're doing, it's, it can be a good system to use.

Rick: 28:50

Well, I've seen that you've had, you have a pretty good web presence or social media presence, and I know you post a lot of stuff on there and I've seen those, those millions, grow quite rapidly on which you're getting invoiced out there which is, I mean, it's, it's awesome. Are you getting any pushback or any nasty email grams or you know something nasty from the insurance carriers going, hey, what do you think you're doing here? You know you're ruining our game here or you're influencing the market, not?

Yanni: 29:23

really, I've been involved on a few individual email chains where there's like a pricing dispute and the shop will bring me in and I'll just screenshot the list price sheet and that's. That's usually the end of it. It's any denial would be based out of ignorance, because and I listen, I even get it from the insurer side you know you've been doing rate pay for decades, literally decades, forever, for instance, the beginning of time. All of a sudden you have a thousand dollar, you know Supplement request for this long, long list of stuff. What are you supposed to think? You know it's like what.

Yanni: 29:54

Yeah, the Seamsealers $80. Oh, yeah, it's 80. That's the list here. It is, you know, and but no one ever really goes to the effort of showing them. You know that's the list. On this part number. You can call this manufacturer, you can ask them what the list price is of you know this part number and they'll tell you that's just what we're dealing with. And there's laws that you have to sell it at retail and there's there's a whole tax liability associated. You know it's rate pay has really been used as like a way to defer the reality for the longest time, but now there's actually a tool that that helps you Accommodate for, for all the the complexity that takes place in the repair process, the jig is up.

Yanni: 30:35

Yeah, the jig is up like it's just really it's just too expensive to ignore the problem anymore.

Rick: 30:40

I Know it's. You know and shops have been buffalode for, like you said, decades, and just you know, brainwash that that's the only way you can be compensated on paint materials, which is never I mean, it's always been nuts.

Yanni: 30:53

Oh, and the 80s. It probably worked out where you got 15 bucks per paint hour but your cost was, like you know, 11 bucks. So you made out yeah it's. The rate has not increased in proportion with the inflation. The inflation is well out of pace with the rate now.

Rick: 31:08

No correct. So let's take a little bit. So you're not aligned with any distributors or any paint companies. This is strictly an agnostic system, which I love that, where you're not Beholding to anybody, it is your own company, you can do exactly what you want and it's fair and equitable to everybody Out there, which is awesome. So whatever you know, you don't change that. I think that's great. Not enough companies that do that and I really like the fact for this that that's what you guys do. What is cost? And in an ROI look like on the system. So I know the price, I know it's really low cost system and you don't have to tell me what the price is, but how fast you think a shop is gonna make their money back On what they spend for the system.

Yanni: 31:55

One RO One repair order one of. You have to be a big one, medium size or better You'll, you'll make back the entire, the entire year cost and we only charge monthly too. So we're a month by month, no contract. It's 99 a month, I don't mind saying it. There's an onboarding setup fee, but, like I said, it's it's obsolete once you do the first ticket and negotiate it properly.

Rick: 32:21

Yeah, there's no way you can go backwards on this. I mean just, I think, just to try it, for even if you did it for two months or three months, I think you'd make so much money that you'd be kicking yourself every day when you go home. Why didn't I do this earlier? Why did, why didn't I get on the bandwagon at the beginning of 2023 when I first heard about this Eagle thing?

Yanni: 32:40

so I tell people that the real investment is not like $99 a month to care that's lunch on a Friday at, you know, for a small shop. It's the time. You know you have to learn how to use the system. You have to make a change to your process, you know you have to figure out how you're gonna negotiate it, explain it, how you're gonna sell it, it's all of those things. But that's, that's the cost, it's not. I think 99 bucks is negligible really, and we want to keep it, you know, inexpensive. We're a lightweight team. We want to offer, you know, that competitive price point. I don't know if I do so, oh, maybe at my own, at my own peril, because no one wants to be the cheapest, but we are the cheapest. I mean, I don't know how to say it.

Rick: 33:20

Well, you may be the cheapest, but if it's working, and it works for you guys and you constantly gain A market share, that's not a bad thing.

Yanni: 33:30

We've gained one to two shops every single business day of this year, like steadily every single business day on averaging one to two signups per day.

Rick: 33:40

So we talked earlier about this. I you started with how many? How many customers did you have at the end of 2022? 40, yeah, and how many customers?

Yanni: 33:54

you have today 351 Not bad growth yeah. I might add, it took all of last year to get those 40, and this year it was literally from January 1st to today, or we made those 311. So With that's awesome, with a very low churn rate, I think we've churned over maybe 12 or 13 shops in our whole company history, which is, you know, no retention is gonna be a hundred percent, so I'm trying to be happy at 99 percent.

Rick: 34:27

You just have to sell? Yeah, I'll just have to live with that. I guess I Saw you down at Dave Ler's mastermind. That's when we finally got a chance to meet, which was cool. There's a lot, and I know you stayed the extra day for some training they did for some of their customers. Are you getting a lot more invites to these types of meetings?

Yanni: 34:46

Yeah, it does seem like there's some good Industry awareness at this point, like we gained the size kind of silently and now it's like oh, what's this? There's still a lot of people that don't have a like, don't even know we exist, which I don't know how to Combat. That, you know, I'd like to get the message out there more, but I'll just have to stick to making memes on Facebook. That's my primary. Memes are awesome.

Rick: 35:12

Do a do a couple podcasts here and there, because you know a couple people will listen to mine and and I think, just the the awareness like working with collision hub and you know they do a lot of posting and stuff too, and I think a lot of our, a lot of our industry is on Facebook and and on LinkedIn and things. So they're seeing it out there. I know Distributors are talking about it. I've talked about it with a lot of people I know in this industry. You went to SEMA. I saw you there last week and you were, I think you did an interview with. What are you doing there with with Danny?

Rick: 35:48

Oh, yeah, danny the DEG. So same wheelhouse, right he's. He's always looking to share ways for shops to make more money and get a process included or added or fixed the database gateway. So, yeah, I think that's cool. There You're. You're getting noticed by, you know, some of the big players in this industry. So I think that'll help, you know, rocket your growth even more. So I know you're constantly tweaking, doing a little adjustments and enhancements to the system. What's next for you guys? Are we just going to continue to grow or is there some other big you know things you're going to add on, or is there some, some hopes and dreams you have in the next year, what you'd be able to do?

Yanni: 36:30

our, our mindset Kind of currently has been to just double down on more of the existing. So more manufacturers, more data sets, more billing structures, more op kits, more models. So we've been we're getting asked to do more non-conventional, non-passenger vehicles like RVs, tractor trailers, a class motor homes, motorcycles. So it's just like let's develop more models, let's do more surface area mappings, let's do just just more of the same, because I want it to be a broad enough platform where, no matter what you're fixing, you can get an accurate materials and voice for it. And there's, you know, box trucks. It's like, yeah, sprinter vans, rivian delivery vans, you know the short, you know the short vans. There's just so many different vehicle types out there and we're just trying to accommodate an accurate model for all of them. So a lot of R&D actually goes into each diagram.

Rick: 37:27

Yeah, I believe that. Yeah, when you, when you, you know, when you mention that, yeah, I think about boats and RVs and buses and heavy-duty, you know, commercial vehicles. Yeah, there's a lot of that out there and there's that's a lot of surface that nobody's really had a way of figuring out what to use. On that, even the guys are experienced boat painters or RV painters Still are always guessing and they're usually way off on what they need for a job.

Yanni: 37:53

So oh, boats is one vehicle type that I actually see a little to no demand for, because it's when you're doing hull painting, it's in gallons and you're just, yeah, like literally whatever you buy for the job is what goes into the job. So there's a pretty one-to-one relationship. But yeah, we'll probably wind up doing both. Someone's gonna ask for it eventually.

Rick: 38:19

Yeah, I wanted to just bring this up because I thought it was really interesting. So and I think the listeners would understand. So we initially talked, and we were talking about your, your history and how you got into this, and you said you're pre-med and Next thing you knew you were a collision technician. What was that? What led to that jump? Because that's a big stretch. Most people in medical school don't end up fixing cars.

Yanni: 38:48

Yeah, I Would clarify, was pre-med, so I was just a biology major in college and then I was looking at medical school. So I wasn't in school or nothing, but I was a bio major. I did get my degree and everything but um, I I Basically I always love cars. My brothers were working on them when I was a kid and I would like clean up their coolant spills and you know, you know, I think when I was 11 or 12 years old, they, they Boosted my dad's Honda cord, which was just like a boring gray, like middle of the road Honda cord Right, and they strapped this, this eBay turbo to it and made it like a couple extra Four pounds of torque out of it. It was just a fun summer. So I was always into cars and, yeah, I Went to cut.

Yanni: 39:35

I didn't have a very defined vision for what I wanted to do with my life, so you just kind of churn through college like everybody else. Biology seemed cool. I liked the diagrams of how all the the Intracellular machinery worked, but I sucked at lab like anything practical. I was just really good at reading the textbook and memorizing the pictures. Yeah, but I suck in its practicality. So when I finished up school I Figured to myself hey, before I do anything else, why don't I get into the workforce for a couple of years and save up some money before going to med school? That was the initial plan and, funny enough, I actually got a job at Geico for, I think, a grand total of three months.

Rick: 40:15

Oh, I was like oh.

Yanni: 40:17

Yeah, this is a, this is cool, I can. I can have this desk job and still somehow be close to cars. That was the rationale. Then, after the their training session and like once I actually started doing the job, I very quickly discovered it wasn't for me and then I just said you know what, screw it, I'm young, why don't I just go be a tech? That's what I've always wanted to do. Anyway, I just wanted to work on cars, so I started working at Bulls Bridge in Kent, connecticut. I'm best friends with the owner son and he took me in and he taught me a lot of what I know today. He taught me for four years start to finish work, painting, framework, you know, light bodywork, disassembly, right electronics. I'm very blessed that he was my mentor, because he took me in with zero knowledge and by the time I left there I was a pretty capable tech.

Rick: 41:09

That's awesome. Yeah, that that's a great start, and I wish everybody would try the business when they're young. Just you know, because I know then this is not you know what we were originally talking about, but you know there's such a huge demand for tech, for technicians and people in general in this industry and a lot of other service industries, and and a lot of it goes back to there's a ton of kids coming out of high school and college that Just don't want to go try a hands-on trade for a little bit, like you had the gumption to just well might, as a try, right, I'll probably end up doing something else. We want to give this a try, man. If everybody had that same mindset when they got out of school, we'd probably have a Lot less of a problem with technicians in this industry, because once you get in it.

Rick: 41:55

I mean you, you beat on panels and you did some painting and it's kind of fun. I mean this is kind of a cool, enjoyable business if you're a fear young person, because you get to work with your hands, you see the results when you're done and it's very satisfying, especially to me. On the painting side, I Always got a lot of satisfaction out and getting a job done, untaping it you know a little bit of rub-nub here and there and just look at, go man, I did that. That's awesome, it's fulfilling and I think I think everybody should experience that before they decide they're gonna go to a, you know a four-year college or six years from medical or whatever. Sometimes there's people with debt that they carry for you know ten years and the job that they're at they're making less than they would if they were a body man for ten years, right?

Yanni: 42:39

You know, knowing what I know now, I I do wish I actually went straight into the trade, like four, four additional years of working as a tradesman. I would have advanced sooner, I would have made more money sooner and I think about it. I like I probably would have paid off my house by now, like if I just skip college, but yeah, then, on the other hand, would I have had the conviction to do what I'm doing now if I didn't experience the thing that I like Some important portion of your life is doing stuff you don't want to do, and I think there's actually a lot of value in that. So you got to go through the suck first, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that for me was, it was college. You know I can't say I would have, could or should have, because everything turned out well, but yeah, yeah, there's, there's value in doing stuff that you don't want to do, because when you find something you do on the Do, then you know how to grab it, right all right.

Rick: 43:29

So I got one more question and I'm just going to figure out where everybody can get a hold of you. So I like to ask this question what's the most invaluable lesson I can say that you've learned?

Yanni: 43:46

That's tough. It's tough to pick one. I would just say keep going, be the best, work really really hard, adapt your model. Just carry momentum in your venture. If there's no momentum, it's kind of like you're dying. So just go, go all the way. Don't have doubts about it, don't really even think about it too much. Thinking wastes a lot of time. Try and make decisions quickly, find the direction, move in it, and the failures and the mess ups and the screw ups that's an inevitability. So just head in that direction. Go like a son of a bitch. That's awesome. Yeah, just go, just frickin' go, don't even think about it. That's how you launched Eagle, right? Yeah, that was one of the founding principles. It was like screw it, send it, just go.

Rick: 44:40

So I'm sure if I ever get to see your office, it's going to have a big sense to just do it. I love it. Yeah screw it, just do it. Yeah Well, yanni, thank you very much. It's been awesome talking with you and hearing your story and sharing that with everybody else. Where can everybody find you and can they see how this thing works without actually having you visit the shop, or is there some way they can get to see the guts of how?

Yanni: 45:06

this thing works. So we have a good amount of content out on YouTube. I have a lot more I still have to upload. So if you just type Eagle MMS on YouTube or you visit us at eaglemmscom as far as taking a look at it or even talking to me if you hit schedule demo in the bottom right of our website, it literally pulls up my Google Calendar. It is a little full all the time, but you could pick an open slot and we could hop on a video call and I could show the program or discuss anything. Really.

Rick: 45:37

Awesome. Well, thank you very much, yanni. I feel bad we didn't have Alex on here. Maybe next time we talk we'll have both you and Alex on here. So I know, not everybody wants to be in the limelight, not everybody in Alex just might be more comfortable writing code and making sure the software works, and I get that. I'm okay with that, absolutely. Yeah, but I appreciate everything you guys are doing. You've added something really cool and really needed to this industry. I wish I would have thought of it first, but you know I don't have that software brain. So here I am on the microphone.

Yanni: 46:14

My vision would have been useless without my brother too. He's the one who built the whole thing, so I was just lucky I have a software engineer for a brother. There's some part of it is luck. At the end of the day, that's awesome.

Rick: 46:24

Well, thanks very much, and thank you, rick. Thanks for having me. Oh, you got it. I'm glad we could do this and I'm sure we'll be talking soon.

Rick: 46:44

Well.

Rick: 46:44

I hope today's conversation with Yanni from Eagle MMS not only provided some insight into what the paint material invoicing system is all about, but also provided hope for those struggling with profitability in their paint department that everybody has the opportunity to finally make some great profits on materials without squeezing the life out of their suppliers. Be sure to reach out to Yanni to schedule an easy online demo right now. I'll leave all his contact info in the show notes. Thanks again for tuning in. I really appreciate your support and I hope you have a great week. I can always be reached at wwwricksellovercom, where you can find all my social media links podcast episodes, blog posts and much more.