Heather Webb and Hazel Gaynor, Christmas With The Queen and a Dubbonet and Gin

I had no idea Queen Elizabeth II had a favorite cocktail. Did you? A Dubbonet and Gin and let me tell you, that first sip is a doozy, but after that it's delicious drinking. Much in the same way Heather Webb and Hazel Gaynor's latest release: Christmas With The Queen is just delightful reading. Rich with historical details and cozy Christmas details and a lovely star-crossed love story.  This is a perfect read for the holiday season. We talk about the amazing partnership between them, the division of labor, the joy of travel research and the intimidating nature of writing about The Queen.  All while getting a little tipsy on her favorite tipple!

’Tis the season! The Crown meets When Harry Met Sally in the latest heartwarming historical novel from Hazel Gaynor and Heather Webb, bestselling authors of Last Christmas in Paris, Meet Me in Monaco, and Three Words for Goodbye.

December 1952. While the young Queen Elizabeth II finds her feet as the new monarch, she must also find the right words to continue the tradition of her late father’s Christmas Day radio broadcast. But even traditions must evolve with the times, and the queen faces a postwar Britain hungry for change. 

As preparations begin for the royal Christmas at Sandringham House in Norfolk, old friends—Jack Devereux and Olive Carter—are unexpectedly reunited by the occasion. Olive, a single mother and aspiring reporter at the BBC, leaps at the opportunity to cover the holiday celebration, but even a chance encounter with the queen doesn’t go as planned and Olive wonders if she will ever be taken seriously. 

Jack, a recently widowed chef, reluctantly takes up a new role in the royal kitchens at Sandringham. Lacking in purpose and direction, Jack has abandoned his dream to have his own restaurant, but his talents are soon noticed and while he might not believe in himself, others do, and a chance encounter with an old friend helps to reignite the spark of his passion and ambition. 

As Jack and Olive’s paths continue to cross over the following five Christmases, they grow ever closer. Yet Olive carries the burden of a heavy secret that threatens to destroy everything. 

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Transcript

Molly Fader (00:00):

Hello everybody. Welcome to Day Drinking with Authors, the podcast series where I pick a book and the author picks a drink and we discuss both. Today as we're getting ready for Christmas, I'm thrilled to sit down with Hazel Gainor and Heather Webb to talk about their beautiful book Christmas with the Queen. This duo has been writing really fascinating historical fiction together for a few years. And Christmas with the Queen is a cosy, warm, historical love story that is absolutely perfect for the holidays. I'm going to read the back cover copy for my mom and mom, you would love this. You would love mom. You would love Hazel and Heather, all of their books. It is exactly your vibe, but here we go. Tis the season the Crown meets. When Harry met Sally and the latest heartwarming historical novel from Hazel Gaynor and Heather Webb, bestselling authors of last Christmas in Paris.
(00:51)
Meet me in Monaco and three words for goodbye December, 1952. While the young Queen Elizabeth II finds her feet as the new monarch, she must also find the right words to continue the tradition of her late father's Christmas Day radio broadcast. But even traditions must evolve with the times, and the Queen faces a post-war Britain hungry for change. As preparations begin for the Royal Christmas at Sandra Nim house, Sandra him house in Norfolk, old friends Jack Devereaux and Olive Carter are unexpectedly reunited by the occasion Olive, a single mother and aspiring reporter at the BBC leaps at the opportunity to cover the holiday celebration. But even a chance encounter with the Queen doesn't go as planned and olive wonders if she will ever be taken seriously. Jack, a recently widowed chef reluctantly takes up a new role in the Royal Kitchens of Son Hum. Wow. I cannot say that.
(01:44)
I'm probably even saying it wrong. Feel free to correct me as we go. Lacking in purpose and direction. Jack has abandoned his dream to have his own restaurant, but his talents are soon noticed. And while he might not believe in himself, others do. And a chance encounter with an old friend helps to reignite the spark of his passion and ambition. As Jack and Olive's paths continue to cross over the following five Christmases, they grow ever closer. Yet Olive carries the burden of a heavy secret that threatens to destroy everything I told you, mom, you'd like this one. Heather and Hazel, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having us. I'll give you a second so that listeners can get everybody's voice connected with the name Heather Webb. Hazel Gaynor (02:26):

Hi, Molly Fader (02:28):

Hazel Gaynor. Hazel Gaynor (02:29):

Hello and apologies for the strange English words, Sandham and Norfolk. Molly Fader (02:42):

Born in America, living in Canada. I just don't, I'm not great with it, Norfolk. Hazel Gaynor (02:48):

None of it makes any sense even to me, but there you go. Molly Fader (02:52):

So the drink that you have chosen today, please tell us a little bit about your drink and why you've chosen it. Hazel Gaynor (02:58):

I'm not sure why we've chosen it, Heather. I think we're regretting choosing it to be honest. Molly Fader (03:05):

We all have full bottles of this Hazel Gaynor (03:07):

Stuff. I think I'll take responsibility for it. And gin and is a fortified French wine. So you're kind of veering into Sherry territory. So Gerd, your loins. And it was a favourite drink of the Queen mother. It was a drink that was very popular in the 1920s apparently, and it doesn't have a mixer. It's straight up the two things. It's two parts Di Bon to one part gin served over ice with a slice of lemon if you so care. And it then became the Queen Queen Elizabeth II's favourite pre-dinner drink. And that has just now become associated. Apparently it has a royal seal of approval now or something to one A. It's sort of the stamp of, it's the queen's drink. So we thought we're here with Christmas with the Queen, why not drink the queen's favourite tipple? But yeah, I haven't tried Molly Fader (04:10):

It yet. Hazel Gaynor (04:11):

Here we go. Good luck. I'll join you. Oh my Molly Fader (04:15):

God. I mean there's no mix. That piece of lemon is working so hard. I'm going to try again. I think it's okay. Hazel Gaynor (04:31):

It's kind of warm. Well, it's literally warming me. My cheeks are going redder by the second because it's that warm glow. So after being outside at Christmas in the cold, I totally get it. Yeah, it's got Heather Webb (04:42):

A wine kind of feel to it. The wines you would get in Germany or in France during the Christmas time, it's got a bit of that taste. Molly Fader (04:52):

Yeah, I do want some soda, some soda water or something in there to cut it a bit. It's a martini basically in a lot of ways. Yeah, the little bit that I read about it said, and I can't remember the title of the man who runs the cellars basically of Buckingham Palace, and he would talk about how she would have it before lunch as an appetite awaken her, which is, it's like this and lunch and I guess a nap. I dunno why you're doing, but then the instructions for it were two part, one part a wheel of lemon laid flat over the surface of the drink, and then two perfectly proportioned ice cubes to sink the lemon wheel at the bottom. And I was like, my God, when you're, Hazel Gaynor (05:42):

You just imagine the ceremony of that though, can't you? I actually, I have these, they're new. They're like a spherical ice cube, which my teenage kids were just fascinated with what on earth I was just making. But the sort of ceremony of that, I love something about that whole, the precision, a circle of lemon on the bottom of the glass held down by ice. I mean, imagine that coming in on a silver tray. I love, I think that's partly why we wrote the book, Heather, isn't it? The tradition and that fascination of stepping back in time, the slower pace, the pre dinner aif. I'm loving it. Molly Fader (06:19):

I'm too. I'm with you. And it's one drink. We're grownups now guys. It's one drink. Well, so tell me how this partnership came to be, the two of you. Heather Webb (06:37):

Well, Hazel and I share a literary agent, which is great. And we signed on with her kind of around the same time not knowing it. And we had our debut novels release a month apart. So our agent said, Hey, you two might be able to help each other sort of navigate the publishing path together. Michelle hadn't been an agent for a terribly long time yet, so she was still really building her list and connecting her authors. And so it was great. We hit it off immediately and via social media. And then we worked on a project together called Fall of Poppies, which is centred around the first World War, the arm day. And it is just short stories, a collection of short stories, and there are nine authors and Hazel and I were among them. And so when we met in person to do a couple of events together, we were like love it first sight. And then after all that research for World War, we weren't really done with the war, so we decided to dig in more and work on a book. So told completely through letters set during the four years of World War I, and that is called Last Christmas in Paris. And it's actually on sale right now for a dollar 99. And it is a very well loved book, so I highly recommend it if you're looking for a festive yet slightly tear jerky kind of read. Molly Fader (08:13):

I feel like one of the relationships that don't get, that does not get talked enough about in writing is the writer friend connection. You meet a lot of different writers and it is like a marriage when you meet one that you're like, oh, I'll spend the rest of my life bitching to you about history. Hazel Gaynor (08:35):

Absolutely. That's it. That's that person. And I think that we, and we didn't really know each other, so we really both took this kind of crazy leap of faith really when we wrote us Christmas in Paris, we had connected through fall of poppies and socially, but putting your trust in someone to a book is a whole other level. And I'm still amazed that it went so smoothly and we just loved working together. And as you say, Molly, having that other person in your corner. And I think over the years that has become so important for us. I mean, we'll often talk about our own books to each other, things that are going on in the industry, our highs and lows. It's really important to have someone to share that with. And we just know so much, probably too much about each other now in our lives and our kids and our husbands. Molly Fader (09:32):

This is only ending in murder. That's the only Hazel Gaynor (09:36):

Good job. We don't write crime, isn't it? Molly Fader (09:39):

So before you took that plunge to write together, had you read each other's books? Had you at least done that kind of, I don't think Heather Webb (09:49):

Had Hazel, we'd read each other's short story in the fall of Hazel Gaynor (09:53):

Poppies. Yeah, we hadn't published our books when we first were connected, so we didn't have a published book when we were first socially connected. And then, yeah, so Fall of Poppies was the first time we'd read what each other had Heather Webb (10:08):

Written. It could have gone spectacularly bad. Yeah, I mean talking about a leap of fame and I know a few author couples that are either breaking up or have broken up or there's serious drama behind the scenes that we can't talk about. But builder the tape, we really luck a little more to drink. Heather, my cheeks are already on fire from this drink. My whole, it comes Molly Fader (10:38):

On hard, this drink. And this kind of leads to my next question. I mean, it is a real leap of faith and it is a very hard chemistry thing, but it also comes down to how the work is split. How does it work with the two of you who does what? Hazel Gaynor (10:58):

We both do everything. I mean, this really is, it's a true partnership in every sense. And the most important thing for us is that when a reader reads one of our books, they forget that there are two people behind this, that they're just reading a book. And that is the biggest compliment anyone can ever give us. That they loved the story, but they also couldn't tell that there were two people writing it. And it's initially about obviously coming up with an idea we're both excited about. And then we've, since last Christmas in Paris, which was, as Heather said, written through letters exchanged between our two main characters, Tom and Evie. And then we naturally just continued with our next three books to write two main characters. So I think that helps because we can each tackle one of those characters initially first to get the first draught blade down. And once we've done that and we've found the voices and the story, we then do a really deep dive together. So we edit each other's pages, we make suggestions, we have these powwows about plot and what's going to happen. So it is a really true collaboration. We may start from one place, but we completely come together to the end on every single line page word. Molly Fader (12:20):

Your fingerprints are all over Hazel Gaynor (12:22):

Over everything. Everything. I don't see how it could work any other way, Heather, I don't know how else be Heather Webb (12:28):

Done. I've seen it where some duos that are no longer together each wrote their own part and then there were comments made, but then every time one of the other tried to sort of doctor a sentence, it created a problem. And that's the thing. I mean, you really have to leave your ego at the door. I was just Molly Fader (12:51):

Going to say this is ego is trust Heather Webb (12:54):

Explicitly. You have to have trust. You have to have the same work ethic and you really have to kind of let stuff go. I mean, if Hazel has a really strong feeling about something, then we talk about it. And I'm okay with that because she's a great storyteller and an excellent writer, and I don't have a problem saying, okay, so my idea is not really the best, so let's figure out how to make these mesh or whatever. And I think she's the same way. Absolutely. I mean, I know it keeps working. Molly Fader (13:23):

Yeah. Yeah. So each, to go back to the beginning of your answer, it sounds like each of you takes it sort of a character on at first run and are just whoever is drawn to whoever. Is someone doing the male voice and someone is doing the female voice every time? Or is it just whoever is drawn to whoever Heather Webb (13:44):

We swap off? Molly Fader (13:45):

Yeah. In terms of Heather Webb (13:46):

Male female, we swap off, although Three Words for Goodbye was a sister Story. Sister, Hazel Gaynor (13:52):

Yeah, Heather Webb (13:52):

Yeah. So I think we do, we've Hazel Gaynor (13:55):

Sort of taken it in turns, haven't we? So
(13:58)
In one book, if someone's written the male character and the other's written the female in the next book, we've just naturally swapped that around. I think there's much for a sort of personal challenge. Oh, okay, I wrote a female character last time, let's write a male character. And there often then there are connected characters in pieces that we would both write. For example, that the Queen speaks to us in her voice in certain sections in Christmas with the Queen. And we both loved jumping in and imagining her scene and interactions with people. So there were side characters that we would both sort of play around with as we're drafting as well. Heather Webb (14:43):

Those are total mashup, the secondary characters. Molly Fader (14:47):

I loved the interstitials with the bits from the Queens Christmas message, and you had one from Philip as well. And then the point of view from the Queen, and I wondered because when I would turn the page and get to that part, I would have this kind of like, oh, this is brave or something. I know that it's not, but it just felt like I was like, this is a big bite. Did you guys feel that way when you were like, okay, I'm going to write this in the Queen's point of view? I guess because she's been alive in her lifetime. I am not sure why I felt that way. Maybe I live in Canada. I dunno. But it just felt like, did you have any feeling? I Hazel Gaynor (15:27):

Definitely felt that way. I dunno, because obviously English girl Heather might have a different view. I definitely felt like, okay, roll up my sleeves. I'm actually going to be the queen this morning. Heather Webb (15:40):

Yeah, I think it is a brave thing to do, but I think historical novelists are kind of used to that. Part of what we do is learn about someone or an event that was real and all the details surrounding it that were true to life and we have to get those right or as close to as we can and spin our story in and around it and pull it all together. So it's kind of what we do. So for me, for Christmas with the Queen, I wasn't intimidated by writing the Queen's perspective really. Had it been a full biographical, I think I would have, but just the little snippets. But I also wrote a book called Strangers in the Night that was Frank Sinatra and Eva Gardner with Alternating Perspectives. And that scared me to death actually, because the family's still alive and being American and having him be very immediate still in American culture really worried me more than writing small snippets from the queen's point of view. But again, it's like a big chunk of his life and Ava Gardner's life, so it's quite different. It was Hazel Gaynor (16:54):

Fun to do as well because I think we were excited to get to those pages because we researched and you
(17:01)
Feel that you sort of know this person in a way that allows you to express her. And it was really good fun to write those scenes where she's interacting with Philip and with Margaret and with the Corgis, and she's sort of the glue that holds the book together. She plays a bit of a fairy godmother role between Jack and Olive, and it was the younger version of the Queen. So I think the version of her that we were writing was so sort of far away from the Monarch that was still alive at the time and was in the newspapers and celebrating her platinum Jubilee. So I think there was a sense of creative freedom there as well, that we were essentially trying to create a view of a young woman who found herself in an unexpected position as Queen when she should never have been the queen. So the heart of her we wanted to write was really this young, beautiful young wife with young children and her own hopes and dreams, and she just happened to be the queen who was Molly Fader (18:07):

Taking her job so seriously, who I think one of the things that I liked so much about it is that I felt reading those parts is how she was fully aware of how important the job was. And she, here comes my dog. Hazel Gaynor (18:26):

Well, the Queen would fully approve of a dog interrupting. It's true. She adored animals her whole life. I mean, we all know the Corgi, so we had to put them in there as well. But yeah, she did throughout her life as anybody who's watched the Crown the way her role was depicted there, we actually ended writing Christmas with the Queen through the period of reflection after her death. So there was a lot of looking back over her reign and how much she took on that sense of duty and responsibility. So yeah, that certainly came through in that almost overwhelming sense of duty that she had as a young woman. And then we played that off against Olive, another young woman who isn't a queen, and then Jack our fabulous New Orleans chef who Heather May have thrown a few recipes in his direction. A foodie is Heather. Molly Fader (19:26):

Oh, nice. My next question is, there are three parts to it and you're going to answer the main question and then we're going to talk about the three parts, which was the hardest in the writing, making it all happen in five Decembers, creating the jobs that would get them in contact with the Queen for those five Decembers. And this is a tiny spoiler, but it's a spoiler that I think will sell the book to my listeners or the secret baby of it all. So which of those three things was the hardest to sort of keep wrangled? Heather Webb (20:12):

I think A and C were kind of equivalent because we had trouble with the five Christmases because it felt like we wanted our characters to get together sooner. But we also really wanted, first of all for it to be realistic for someone who has lost their spouse. And there's just no way, I mean, it would have to have at least been a year, if not two years or longer for someone to, and sometimes it takes people a decade to come around so Molly Fader (20:41):

People never get so Heather Webb (20:44):

Tricky. And so we thought, okay, we definitely have to build that in and that helps with the five-year structure. But we really wanted to hit open the book with the Queen's very first Christmas as well. She was still a princess at that point and not hadn't been crowned, but her first Christmas speech over the radio and then end it with her first televised speech and just show that progression of technology for one thing and the progression of brand new queen to a much more confident monarch who was doing the job and doing it well and reaching her subjects or the citizens of the country and so on. So that was tough. And then Hazel, do you want to touch upon the little, the babe? Hazel Gaynor (21:34):

Yeah, and I mean, I think without too many spoilers, I think with every book, obviously we want to give the reader time to really invest in these characters lives, and that's partly where the five years came from, particularly over Christmas. I think we all stop and slow down and maybe have a little more time to read and reflect. So that sort of plays into that five-year Christmas span as well. But having a baby in the book, I guess it's about when you're writing, it's about what do you reveal to the reader and when do you reveal it to them? And that's a difficult balancing act with whatever the thing is. And it's definitely something we played around with. We had different points in which things were revealed, and then as we edited, again, we felt where things landed in the book that people were read was the right place for things to happen. But yeah, there was a lot of, and there always is, I think with anything that's a pivotal secret Molly Fader (22:46):

Secret Hazel Gaynor (22:48):

Within the book and within the characters lives, you've got to find the authentic place within the characters for that to be revealed. And also being mindful of a reader's desire to want to know, but obviously we want to keep you turning the page and the is satisfying. So yeah, I would've agreed. Those two were definitely took up more airtime in our conversations of a Tuesday morning slash afternoon because of the time difference. But yeah, Molly Fader (23:22):

And I feel like I love in these conversations when I read a book and then have a chance to talk to the authors, I love imagining the moment when you realise that she was going to work for the BBC and how that just slotted some stuff into place. It must've just been like a bb. That's perfect. It was such a good, because it pinpointed the struggles that she was going to have about being taken seriously as a woman in a changing environment. It got her to the Queen, it got her to Jack, and then at some point I was like, oh, is it just going to be every five years or every year they get back to Sandra him. But no, then you've got her on the plane sort of reporting on the first, not transatlantic from my end, but first UK to Australia flight. Did you know that first that she was going to be a part of the BBC or did that come later? Heather Webb (24:21):

We Hazel Gaynor (24:22):

Knew Heather Webb (24:22):

That first. Hazel Gaynor (24:22):

We knew it at first, yeah, because that really came from the facts of the BBC were very present in the Royal Christmas in terms of recording the broadcast over the wireless and then ultimately televising it. So I guess that was the initial link. But for all of the reasons that you've just said, it's the perfect career and also gives us a great opportunity to sort of show the frustrations of somebody like Olive in 1950s where things are not accessible to her and opportunities are not given and she has to fight and scrap and sort of blunder her way through some of the opportunities. And then the research showed us that there was this flight that went to Australia, which allowed us to take Olive to join the Queen on her royal tour because how else was she going to get there? So there was Heather Webb (25:13):

A lot of, actually, logistics were a pain, tonnes. We had so many issues with the logistics because it wasn't just the five-year structure, it was exactly as Hazel said. There was the flight thing and then the two tours in the South Pacific that we had to deal with and we're like, why would they be apart? How do we set this up, this whole thing? Molly Fader (25:37):

And I thought that as a reader, I was like, oh, that couldn't be better. The fact that you have got to remove one of them to the first tour is her first tour with Philip as a married couple and they're going to, New Zealand was the big part, the book. And then the other one is Philip's tour that he takes to Antarctica and other points. But I was like, yeah, that helps. That helps. Hazel Gaynor (26:01):

And they gave us lovely moments of separation Molly Fader (26:04):

And thinking of each other and yearning Hazel Gaynor (26:06):

And to put obstacles in the way of Jack and Olive geographical obstacles, which creates tension. But again, that was a mirroring of what had really happened between the young Queen and her husband. They were separated and that gave the queen, as you say, a period of reflection. And that came through in her Christmas speech that year when he was away. So there was lots of sort of mirroring of the facts and then our fictional love story that we were building around them. But yeah, I don't even want to go back over the notes that we might have exchanged about how did it get it take to get from Australia to London? Oh, we did so much that with Heather Webb (26:47):

So many we had, yeah, there was a lot of logistical stuff. There often is, and we sometimes paint ourselves into court, we'll write ourselves into corners where we're like, why did we say this took them three days? We don't need to say how many days. Let's just take the three out days later. Molly Fader (27:08):

The biggest problem ever for writers is timeline. It's like you set a thing and you're like, this is so clever and it's so smart. And 83 of writing, you're like, this was the stupidest idea. Hazel Gaynor (27:25):

It's like that couldn't have happened. And how we've done this, I think historical as well, because you've all these time obstacles, things took longer to happen. People took longer to get everywhere. Some ways that helps your story in other ways. It's like, okay, so how do we keep the connection between them if they're not even together? But letters are often the answer in a historical novel because that's how people communicated. And that gives you an opportunity to have your character be very slightly more romantic and open and honest and spill something on the page that they might not dare say yet in person. So Heather Webb (28:03):

Unless on a ship in the South Pacific and then there's no letters, we went round around with that. Could we do a telegram? Why would be so and Hazel Gaynor (28:18):

And then you read some researcher, they had wireless Marconi telephones. We can have them make a call. So you become a kind of expert in telecommunications in 1953. Molly Fader (28:31):

And well, you become an expert in all of these things that you end up never using. Real quick, before we go deeper into research, I did want to talk about the secret baby of it all. And I mean all of us, I'm a huge reader. I read so much and I read romance from a really early age, and I'm a writer and I wrote romance for a million years. Nothing turns a page like a secret baby. And I'm a reader who suspends disbelief despite being an author and in your very capable Hands, I was like, oh, I had no idea until I had an idea. And then it was just like, when is this going to be resolved and how it is so satisfying to me as a reader and listeners out there who are romance readers, you will love this subplot. And it's hard. It's a hard thing to balance. It really is. Sorry. Hazel Gaynor (29:30):

Yeah, it took a while to figure that all out and the what and the when and the how and the why and yeah, right up to the wire. I think we were sort of finding it was they're like, oh, but no, if that happens, then what? Because we have these a red Heather Webb (29:46):

Herring as well for a while that we Molly Fader (29:48):

Didn't have. It works for me. I utterly bought that red. Yes job, Heather. Well done. Well done. We did it. So let's talk about the, oh, go ahead. Sorry, Heather Webb (30:04):

I just said high five, Hazel. Molly Fader (30:08):

Let's talk a little bit about the research of it all because as I was reading the book, I was just like delighted at these touches. The Bench. The bench, that was the perfect place for watching the Ducks, all these very beautiful little moments and details. And then in the author's note, you guys took a trip. Was that best, the best do, I mean, you guys have written, this is your fourth book together. You guys have written a bunch of books separately. Do you often take the trip that needs to be taken to get your We try. Heather Webb (30:47):

We try our third book, three Words for Goodbye, the sister story, they travelled to Paris, Vienna, and Austria, but we wrote it during the pandemic. So that was armchair travel. Molly Fader (30:58):

Yeah, so you went to your kitchen, your living room and your bedroom. Heather Webb (31:02):

Right, exactly. Yeah. But we do try to travel when we can. Hazel Gaynor (31:07):

I think it helps to be in that place if you possibly can get there. And I know it's not always possible for various reasons, but whenever we have gone to a place, it's given us something extra. And I'll let Heather tell you about our tour around Sandringham House because it was just so surprising, I think, wasn't it in what we learned? Heather Webb (31:32):

It was one of the very first things that struck me was how all of the staff had all these cute little magical things that they said about Sandham because they clearly loved working there. I mean, that was right off the bat. And I ended up writing down all these quotes. We had talked about maybe trying to weave it into the book and it didn't work out, so it already created an ambiance for us. But it is this big rambling, Victorian sort of manner that's been added onto over the years, but it looks massive from the outside. But when you go inside, it's actually really cosy. It's got a very homey feel, especially in the study area where they sit by the fire and do puzzles and read books, and then there's a library. Even the kitchen was so much smaller than we pictured, and the dining area was elegant and beautiful, but it was much, much smaller. So it had a totally different feel than what you would imagine. Like Buckingham Palace, you imagine. I mean, we've seen inside of it from film, it couldn't be any more different from the inside of Buckingham Palace, which was very cool. And we would've never gotten that. There are no pictures of it online inside the house, really. They're very hard to find. But that bench with the ducks on the pond, we sat on and we walked over to the chapel, the church there where they celebrate Christmas and we did the whole thing. So Hazel Gaynor (33:09):

It was cool, wasn't it? I think what it allowed us to do was because written these sort of interactions between Olive and the Queen at Sandham between Olive and Jack at Sandham between Jack and Philip at Sandham, and seeing the place where we're like, oh yeah, that totally works because it is one of those places where you could just go from this room to that room and bump into someone where Winter Castle looking and palace, you'd be a day getting from one end to the other. So it really lent itself to that opportunistic kind of, oh, what are you doing here? Which we written Whatcha doing here, queen Elizabeth? Exactly. Yeah, what are you doing over there? So it did allow for those scenes that we had written, and I think it just gives you that foundation of Oh, okay. Yeah, no, that feels really authentic and believable and it is a very peaceful place where you'd want love to blossom. So it was perfect. It was. Molly Fader (34:07):

It was perfect. It was perfect. I have a very writerly question about Oh yeah, yeah. So this is the fourth book that you guys have done together. Your first book was Paris World War I Letters. Your second book was 1950s, Grace Kelly, Grace Kelly, and Her Wedding in Courtship. And then the third book was 1930s Europe with these two sisters with some Nelly Bly sort of inspiration and the Hindenberg, and now you've got the Queen and Christmas. So those are the four books you've written together separately. You guys have been incredibly busy since your first books came out with Frank Sinatra, the Last Lifeboat from the Titanic. You guys have done a lot of heavy research, big books. Can you talk separately and together? Can you talk about how you schedule? How do you do this? Does that help? Hazel Gaynor (35:12):

Very tired. Basically Holly, very tired because I can't, nobody eats well in my house. Sacrifices must be made. Molly Fader (35:23):

Oh, it's not just you've got, these ideas are intricate, these ideas are specific. They need a lot of research. Then you've got to write, not like you're I creating one right after the other of the same vibe. These are very different books, which is a compliment, but also how in the world are you doing this? Heather Webb (35:49):

Yeah, I think I've mentioned this one other time in an interview this past year and history builds on itself. So if you're kind of familiar with what's happening in the 1920s in London and Europe, just sort of generally the next decade isn't a mystery. It actually makes sense that what's happening in 1930 something is a reaction to the twenties and before. And so we've written these very different time periods, but it does kind of build on itself. And so you're building this big web of knowledge, I think over time. And it's been 16 years of writing for me, I think for Hazel two or somewhere about there. And so you get better and more efficient, first of all at the research and how you record the information. And you've got this huge web of knowledge that is just expanding, that you're adding onto. So they're are tricks to it. When I started, it was a freaking nightmare. I mean, I wrote French Revolution and it's like, why did I start with a French Revolution? It's one of the hardest periods to write about. I didn't know what I was doing. And it took a really long time and it was very hard. And then you go from there, and Hazel started with Titanic, which was one of the most beloved stories to Molly Fader (37:14):

Write about. Everybody's an arm share story. Everybody's Hazel Gaynor (37:17):

Titan Acts is the affectionate name. Molly Fader (37:20):

Yeah, Hazel Gaynor (37:21):

Yeah, I completely agree. I was going to say the same. That actually what happens as you write more and you cover different periods of history, they of course do all interlock. So what's brilliant, when you're writing in the 1950s like Christmas with the Queen, you can be talking about, well, what are we going to do with these characters? And you're like, well, hey, they've just come out of the second World War. So actually Jack and Oliver of the age, as was the Queen and Prince Philip, what were they doing in the war? So that then leads you down a sort of rabbit hole of, okay, well what if Jack and Olive had maybe met at some point during the war? So you have these interconnected pieces that can help inform some of your characters' choices or their pasts, because of course, time isn't static. We're all made up of all the things that have come before.
(38:13)
So it's actually very helpful, I find to have that knowledge of the Victorian era through to the 1950s to think, okay, it might not be a major plot point in this book, but it can definitely help me understand what my characters have just been through before we meet them. And the fact, for example, that in the 1950s was still rationing from the second World War, and that comes into play with our character Jack, who's a chef, and some of his limitations about what can he cook with because there's still rationing in place. Had we not written or dipped into the second World War, we may not necessarily have considered that. So I think it sounds like a lot, but it is like each piece of research, absolutely. As Heather says, it sort of forms your library of knowledge that you can pick at to help in another book.
(39:06)
And lots of notes and lots of saved documents and bookmarks. And I'm not as organised as I'd like to be, but it somehow works. I think whatever way, as a writer, you want to capture your research, try and get used to doing that, because you will inevitably want at some point to look back on a research point. And I can never find them. I definitely saw it. It was definitely something about this that it's only I've written it down. So if you're just listening and you're starting out, make a note of where your research key research points come from Molly Fader (39:43):

Right now when were flashlights invented, that's just always new, useful Hazel Gaynor (39:49):

Zips, zippers, flashlights, central heating, all those key things. I put it in a timeline somewhere. Molly Fader (39:56):

So then on top of all of that, are you guys just constantly living under two deadlines, three, four deadlines? Heather Webb (40:03):

I've been mostly, yeah. Yeah. I'm under deadline right now and I'm super behind. It's been, I mean, I had a solo novel out in February, and then our booked at Christmas with the Queen just came out and we finished it in March or April. So it's been right when I was on tour for my solo book, Queens of London. And so it's been a hectic year and Hazel's had years like that too, where she's got one of our books and one of her own books out at the same time. Or a paperback release with the new book coming to, Hazel Gaynor (40:33):

It's not always a writing deadline, is it? It can be an editing deadline or you're on tour or there's suddenly a decision or you you've prepped work for. So there's different phases of writing happening all at the same time. Molly Fader (40:47):

Yeah, the promotion while editing, while drafting, yeah. Hazel Gaynor (40:50):

It's hard at different stages, which you sort of have to just juggle. Molly Fader (40:56):

It's the part of the dream that you don't even know about when you're dreaming this dream however many years ago, you can't even imagine this. And it's a beautiful problem to have, but it's still a problem. We all complain about it. Hazel Gaynor (41:11):

I it's no time to write because oh my goodness, I've got to go on tour for my Booke is me. Wonderful problem to have. But you Right. Don't think about it at the start. Heather Webb (41:23):

I was just going to say, I have an interviewer with a brilliant podcaster. I'm sorry, I can't Molly Fader (41:31):

On a podcast and I've got deadline. That's right. I can't possibly work after this, which is actually true, which Heather Webb (41:38):

Is still bright red. I think I'm going to have are flushed. Hazel Gaynor (41:45):

I tell you what though, for anybody who's listening and wondering about, because not to make a joke of it, because I know writers all work incredibly hard, and I think sometimes there is this mystique that books just write themselves and we do just go to champagne parties. I mean, there are very few and far between. The reality is, Molly Fader (42:08):

I mean, the truth is none of us have showered in days. This is it. Hazel Gaynor (42:13):

This is the proof, but it's discipline and it's love for the job. Writers love writing. Sometimes the publishing part of that gets tricky, but every writer I know adores their job of writing and I think we just have to hold onto that, even if other parts get a bit gnarly and tricky and the ups and downs Molly Fader (42:36):

Do the deadlines and the research for sure. Hazel Gaynor (42:39):

Get back to page Molly Fader (42:40):

I loved and continue to love and love what you're writing separately and together. I can't wait for the next thing. Can you tell us at all? No. Looking at it, we, because we dunno. Okay. Alright. Fair enough. Together. No, but separately, we know. Yeah. What's next for each of you Hazel Gaynor (42:58):

Separately? Well, separately, so my novel coming out next June is called Before Dorothy, and it's the imagined life story of Auntie M from the Wizard of Oz. So I'm very excited about it, especially with all the wicked Molly Fader (43:13):

Friends. Oh my Hazel Gaynor (43:14):

Gosh, I'm loving at the minute. So very excited to take everyone back to Kansas, but in Auntie M's World. So yeah. Oh my Molly Fader (43:22):

Good idea. Damn you. That's a good idea. And how about you, Heather? What have you got? You've got an excellent idea. Heather Webb (43:32):

I'm working hard right now. The title is Influx. I'm hoping that we're Keeping the Hope Thief, which is what my title is now, but we'll see. And it is about the Curse of the Hope Diamond. Molly Fader (43:45):

Oh my gosh. Heather Webb (43:46):

The last woman who owned it. And then the beginnings of women working at the Smithsonian Museum, where the Hope Diamond now resides. So 1919 Washington DC Socialite Circle. Great dads being girls. Mashup with a curse on the side. It's Hazel Gaynor (44:04):

Alright up and finish it, Heather. Molly Fader (44:05):

No kidding, both of you. I can't wait. I can't wait. Well, thank you so much for stopping by the podcast and you're very busy schedules and having to drink with me, which is so risky in the afternoon. I'm Hazel Gaynor (44:18):

Liking it now. I Molly Fader (44:20):

Know you have one and you kind of think about another. Heather Webb (44:23):

I'm like, this is going down pretty smoothly now. Molly Fader (44:27):

Well, we do have these whole bottles in our houses, so thank you again. Everybody out there pick up Christmas with the Queen. You'll absolutely enjoy it. Thanks everybody. Heather Webb (44:36):

Thank you. Thank you.