Rochelle Weinstein, We Are Made of Stars, White Wine

I sat down with a glass of white wine to talk to one of my favorites - Rochelle Weinstein about her latest novel We Are Made of Stars. If you are a fan of the TV show White Lotus or the book/TV show Nine Perfect Strangers - this book is for you.  Strangers gather at an inn for a week and drama unfolds.   There's good food, excellent wine and everyone is keeping secrets. We talk about the pleasure and PAIN of writing a book with so many points of view. Rochelle is also a passionate book advocate and she talks about what she's reading now. Fabulous book, fun conversation. Pour a glass of wine and have a listen. 

Secrets, lies, and second chances are served up beneath the stars at a picturesque mountain getaway in this powerful novel about love and family by the bestselling author of This Is Not How It Ends.

At the Vis Ta Vie inn, Reneé and Jean-Paul De La Rue face the daunting decision to close their beloved home for good.

They’re not the only ones going through a season of change, though. Their guests include three couples in crisis: Hollywood celebs Leo and Penny are spending their silver anniversary together while on the cusp of divorce. Lucy, a practical-minded therapist, and Henry, an astronomer with his head in the stars, are struggling to find common ground. And former lawyer and current stay-at-home mom Sienna and charismatic sports agent Adam look perfect but are hiding rifts of their own. Thrown into the mix are self-absorbed single mother Cassidy and her sullen fifteen-year-old daughter, Rosalie.

The stage is set for a week of betrayals, regrets, and shocking truths that can rend the heart or heal it. Vis Ta Vie—live your life—captures what it means to love through the darkness, and to find the light even after the magic fades.

Find Rochelle here: 

https://www.instagram.com/rochellebweinstein/

https://www.facebook.com/rochelle.b.weinstein

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Transcript

Molly Fader (00:30):

Hello everybody. Welcome to Day Drinking with Authors, the podcast series where I pick a book. The author picks a drink and we discuss both. Today I'm really excited to sit down with Rochelle b Weinstein to talk about her really lovely and exciting novel. We Are Made of Stars. It's great that this book is coming out sort of around the release of the third season of White Lotus because it has very white lotus vibes. It's got a dark, a ribbon of dark humour, people behaving badly secrets coming out, people trying very hard to save their relationships. It's really quite lovely. I'm going to read the cover copy because my mother loves that. And mom, you would like this book, secret Secrets Lies, and Second Chances are Served Up Beneath the Stars at a picturesque mountain getaway in this powerful novel about love and family by the bestselling author of This Is Not How It Ends. Say it again for me. Rochelle. Rochelle (01:27):

Ve Molly Fader (01:29):

Renee and Jean Paul d Ru face the daunting decision to close their beloved home for good. They're not the only ones going through a season of change, though their guests include three couples in crisis. Hollywood, celebs, Leo and Penny are spending their silver anniversary together while on the cusp of divorce. Lucy, a practical minded therapist and Henry and astronomer with his head and the stars are struggling to find common ground and former lawyer and current stay-at-home mom. Sienna and charismatic sports agent Adam, look perfect, but are hiding rifts of their own. Thrown into the mix are self-absorbed, single mother Cassidy and her suen, 15-year-old daughter Rosalee. The stage is set for a week of betrayals regrets and shocking truths that can render the heart or heal it vis live your life captures what it means to love through the darkness and to find the light even after the magic fades. Love it. Rochelle, thank you for coming by to talk to us today. Rochelle (02:24):

Thank you so much for having me, Molly. Molly Fader (02:27):

So we are, Rochelle (02:29):

I'm a big fan of your books and I love that what you're doing for authors. Molly Fader (02:33):

Well, you came into my life because you are quite an advocate for authors. You have made a real effort and name for yourself in southern Florida, like recommending books of the month sort of. Rochelle (02:49):

Yeah, I mean we can dive right into that, but I've always been a voracious reader and writing was sort of a lark. I was a closeted writer like the imposter syndrome, but I read every single book that I support online and I love to support other authors more than talking about myself. As you can see as we just made, we really pivoted here a major pivot. I'm really well versed on the pivoting. I'm going from talking about my work to supporting other authors. I just know how difficult it is and if there's any writers out there, I know how difficult it is to land an agent, land a publishing deal, break through the masses, and it's just every little piece of help, support and sharing online helps. So I get great joy out of supporting other authors and we can get to this later, but I've been on NBC six in Miami. I author a column here, Aqua Magazine. I am women writers, women's books, monthly book contributor, and I just love sharing great books like computers. Molly Fader (04:07):

It is really fun. I mean, it's a person who's kind of doing this same thing in a way. It is really fun. I'm the same way. I've always loved reading. Reading is, there's nothing I'd rather be doing most of the time than reading, but being able to talk about really great books is second. You know what I mean? It's really fun to talk about books that have moved you and have been exciting to you and to be able to talk to the authors. It's a real fun thing and I know that my listeners out there really like to hear how writers put these books together. They like a peek behind the curtain. Rochelle (04:49):

We just take some shit and we just throw it against the wall and we just mix it up and we hope it turns into magic. That's pretty much it. I mean, Molly Fader (04:58):

I feel like that's a good day. The bad days are different somehow. But let's get back to your book, Rochelle. Nice pivot, but I'm not falling for it. We're having a glass of white wine today and I have to say in the book, it's over seven days at this inn and every section is a new day and you start each section with a menu and a wine pairing and I looked up the wines, I was like, these sound delicious. So talk to me about creating those menus and the wine pairings and how they helped you as a writer frame what was going to happen or did it at all? Were you just like, Rochelle (05:45):

So first, let me just tell you all out there that the We are Made of stars is actually based on a real life inn called the in at Little Pond Farm. It's in Vli, North Carolina, and let me tell, it could be violist or VIIs, I always get it mixed up. I think it's VIIs, North Carolina, and it was owned by a couple, gay and Frank, and it is the most beautiful, charming I've probably ever been to. They welcome you with just such warmth and you feel like you're just part of a family when you're there. So I never personally stayed there, but they would have these wine and dinner nights where guests could come and have a four-course meal cooked for them at a communal table, a convivial table. So I would go with all of my friends in North Carolina and sometimes we took the whole table.
(06:47)
It would seat like 10 people and sometimes we would go with another couple and there'd be six strangers with us. And I always wanted to write a story about the dynamic at this table where sometimes you're sitting with complete strangers at this beautiful inn in the mountains of North Carolina. So Gay and Frank are friends, and I spent a day there researching and literally writing down and asking them the furniture and the flooring and the colour paint swatches and all the love and history that went into the building. And then for the purpose of this book, I made it an in that you check in for seven days, which is not reality. This is our fictional, our creative licence, but I made it so your guests check in and they're there for seven days. And I had one distinct menu for every night of the week, which sort of, and there's some magical realism in there with some of the nights when things get hot at the table and sometimes when there's tears, sometimes the food influences what happens at the table or vice versa. But I met with Gay and Frank provided me, gay actually provided me with menus and I told her what the themes were for the certain parts.
(08:08)
And then I had some friends, my friend Andy Oaken helped me with some wines. And I also, I can't forget Michael Corey, who is with the Palm Restaurant Group Steakhouse, he also helped me with the menus. So it was like a convergence of Gay and Michael and then Andy and also all of them provided help with the wines. I think that there were some really expensive wines in there. Yeah, Molly Fader (08:39):

I felt like it, having read it and then kind of going back to look at it, they were kind of little winks in there. There were kind of little details in these menus and these wine pairings that were surprising. And once you'd read the book, you'd go back and you'd go, oh, well I see what you did there. Little flambe. Yeah, was change. She wants to change one at one point, the fondue to the Brule, and I mean, maybe I was reading too much into it, but I quite enjoyed the effort going into the menus. Do you like that kind of detail work, that kind of subtle scene setting and reader winking? Do you like that kind of work? Rochelle (09:29):

You know what, it's not that I set out to do that. Sometimes my characters, it sometimes just happens that way. And also sometimes you have a good agent or a good editor that gives you like, Hey, well why don't we do this and we do that. I haven't always had that touch of magical realism and those sort of winks in my novels. And if they happen, sometimes they're by accident or maybe by my subconscious, I guess. I think it's a collaboration of some great minds working on a manuscript and feeding you some of those bright ideas. But I can't say that that's like a Rochelle Weinstein thing maybe. I don't know. I don't know. It comes out so naturally maybe I don't even realise I'm doing it. Some books, I hear it a lot. Molly Fader (10:30):

Some books are easier in that regard than others. Some books just they lend themselves to those touches and some are, in fact, in the author note, you call this book a Bad Boyfriend. Rochelle (10:51):

This was the hardest book I ever wrote. Not because of those little winks, but because I had eight characters at the table. Then I had the Gay and Frank, which was Renee and John Paul, and I had six point of views, six, I had Sienna, I had Lucy. Well, first let's just explain so the listeners don't think that we're completely bogging them down. Molly Fader (11:22):

Let's talk about my first question, that obviously is now the eighth question. My first question was going to be how, so you have this idea of floating around for a while that you want to write about an inn and this table and strangers getting together. And then how do you start creating these characters? Do you think of the secrets first and then build out from there? Or are you like, I want a mother and daughter, I want some married couples, I want old friends. How do you start building this? Rochelle (11:53):

I went through different iterations of cast of characters to be at the table, and I really wanted to be dynamic and I think more so than the specific character. It was a couple. So we have Rosalie and Cast, we Rosalie and Cassidy, a mother and a daughter, and Cassidy is this neurotic mom of a 15-year-old daughter that they are polar opposites and they go on a family trip every summer and they each get to pick. And this summer Rosalie picked this location and it's just their, I loved writing their relationship probably the most. Then it was Penny and Leo Shea, who are, he's a movie actor, he's a film actor in Los Angeles, and they are like this golden couple with kids and he gets caught in a scandal, a Hollywood scandal that threatens to tear apart their relationship. But they had made a promise to return to the Inn on a big anniversary where they got married many years ago.
(13:01)
And the question is, are they going to return to the in and how is it going to be when they get to the end? So there was that dynamic. Then we have Lucy and Henry who are a married couple, and they go with their best friends, Sienna and Adam every summer to the end for a week. They're college best friends. They've gone through all kinds of life milestones together. But Lucy and Henry have a big announcement to make this year at the end. And Sienna is, she's struggling with her place in her marriage and considering going back to being a lawyer and just some usual marital cross marriage Molly Fader (13:43):

And really, I mean, I quite like Sienna, her anxiety, all the things that she wasn't dealing with in her life that were affecting her. Rochelle (13:55):

Yeah, very relatable. Molly Fader (13:56):

I like that. Yeah, Rochelle (13:57):

So throw in also the in owners who were at a, they're having a financial problem and there's all these secrets and there's all this drama and there's all of these personalities that come together at this table and we watch the train wreck unfold. And this is true at the real in when you go to one of these dinners, they serve so much wine. It's literally just you pay a fee. It's not like you're like, oh, can I have another glass of wine? It's like they are just pouring, pouring, pouring, pouring, pouring. And it's just almost like truth serum and everybody just, secrets are revealed and drama and Molly Fader (14:45):

It is a recipe for all of this. Yeah, for sure. Rochelle (14:49):

So it was so difficult, and listen, as I was writing, some things weren't working personality wise or tension wise or arc wise, and I had to come up with a new crisis or something hidden secret from years ago. There's things I had to dig out as I was writing, but it was just so difficult to write because I had to pull these eight threads through the story and keep track. I wish I still had my storyboard. It was about 20 feet long and I had index cards. They were colour coded by character in order for me to keep up with what was happening. It was hell. Molly Fader (15:32):

Well, and one of the things that I was really struck by is that there's some characters, we never are in their point of view, we're never in Leo's point of view, the movie star. So the decisions of who is going to be the main storyteller of that couple, what was the thinking behind that? Rochelle (15:56):

So there were four, let's say couples including Rosalie and her mom. And interestingly though, Rosalie and her mom both had point of views. I just felt that, I think it started with having just Rosalie, I forget, but then I realised that I had to have both and that for a reason that the readers will see, how did I come up with which character would be the voice? I don't know. I think that sometimes you just feel drawn to one character over another and it's almost like you're an actor, an actress, and you get into the role. I feel like I just slipped into the roles of the characters that I felt like I had the voice to translate onto the page. Molly Fader (16:40):

I think one of the things I was also really struck by is because there are secrets about infidelity, there are secrets about money, there are secrets about parents, and you're covering the gamut here, and you really only have one asshole. You know what I mean? And Rochelle (17:06):

He's Molly Fader (17:07):

A big asshole. I loved, so Adam, you're going to meet him on the page and he'll be like, oh, this is the asshole. Rochelle (17:19):

This is the asshole. It's so obvious. There's no giveaway here. Molly Fader (17:22):

I know. And sienna's anxiety about him and these really wild fears that she's starting to have your light. Anyway, it was very well drawn, but the thing that I was taken with is these are actually almost everybody, including Rosalie's mom, who for a good portion of the book, you're kind of like, well, you've got two assholes in this cast. Everybody is, Rochelle (17:49):

But also people thought Leo was an asshole. I mean, everybody had their thing that everybody had their flaw. I felt Leo come bigger than others. Molly Fader (18:00):

Leo was fighting. I believed Leo from the get-go. I really did. Rochelle (18:05):

Right. Well, let's not do Molly Fader (18:07):

Anyway. You're right. But I wanted to ask how difficult it was to not just so you kind of redeem one character, one character is an asshole, and then you have a bunch of really good people trying hard, and that's not always easy to do in a story where there are so many secrets, it's very easy to paint. I don't know. It was really nuanced and human and real to me. So I was just like, how difficult was that and how much rewriting and pulling back on these characters did you have to do? Rochelle (18:47):

When I tell you it was a bad boyfriend, this book was absolutely 110% the hardest book I've ever had to write to be able to capture the nuances of all of them to be able to have my readers be able to relate to them in some way. Listen, there are some real assholes in the world, and I think a lot of those characters are us. It's us sitting at that table and it's what we are holding inside and our insecurities and our fears. And there's something about all of my books that I write about the human experience. I'm an observer of behaviour. I'm always watching people and I can see a couple at a restaurant and just overhear their conversation a little bit. And I have a whole story in my head, but I like to tackle the grey area. I know that when people hear about infidelity, it's like they're black and white and that's it. I know readers won't read a book if there's cheating, and I understand that and I respect that, and everybody's entitled to their opinions. But I like to tackle that grey area where people are humanised and people are flawed and people are imperfect. And some people, they get over the hump and some don't. I mean, Adam, Molly Fader (20:16):

Yeah. Rochelle (20:18):

So I really like to explore that area and I feel like this is the way I live my life. I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. And I think that we just have to find a place where we accept each other for those flaws and for that imperfection Molly Fader (20:41):

You had mentioned Rochelle (20:42):

Instead of judging. Instead of judging, Molly Fader (20:44):

We listen and we don't judge. And I mean, I felt like that attitude throughout the book for sure. But you had mentioned earlier that this book was a real collaborative process between you, your agent and your editor. And bad boyfriend books usually are, you usually need a life preserver from someone at some point. Could you talk to us a little bit? How does your relationship work with your editor and your agent? Does your agent edit? How many, are you doing lots of rounds of edits? Do you brainstorm with your editor and agent? Rochelle (21:25):

Well, interestingly, this book sort of fell through. I pitched it to an agent, to a former agent, and she gave me some amazing ideas for it. And then we ended up parting ways very amicably, and I absolutely love her. And I went over to a new agent who I didn't really get any feedback from, not in a negative way, but they loved the manuscript and we turned it into the editor. So I'm trying to think. So that was Danielle Marshall at Lake Union. She was the head of the imprint and she was my editor and I worked with Jody Warshaw on the developmental edits. And I think that this, because a seasoned author, you go through different passes and it's interesting because every time you get a manuscript back with your fresh eyes, you could see something so differently than before and you sort of massage some areas and you sort of maybe delete some things, take out some things. But it's really incredible when you have the amount of eyeballs and opinions and suggestions. And then you have what I think is so important is time away from the manuscript to be able to see with fresh eyes. But yeah, it's a real collaborative effort. Molly Fader (23:05):

When you finished writing that book, you're like, I could never see this book again, and it would be fine. And then you get, how much Rochelle (23:13):

Do you hate your book? How much do you hate your book? When I can't tell you how much I hate my book. I'm like, I could vomit all over it. It's so bad. And I'm like, no one's going to read this shit. It's so terrible. It's such garbage. Molly Fader (23:30):

Well, that dip in the roller coaster means that in a few days time, it will be the best thing you've ever done. Rochelle (23:42):

When I don't look at it for two weeks, then I go back to it. But Molly Fader (23:45):

Yeah, I do feel like that. You'd never want to see it again. You get the revision letter, you dig in, you go through that roller coaster again, and then again you're like, Nope, I could vomit on this. I never want to see it again. And then you're going to get it at least two more times. Yeah. But that's how, Rochelle (24:05):

Okay, I'm going to be the interviewer. Do you read your books after they come out? Because I will never read it or listen to it after it comes out ever again Molly Fader (24:18):

In, I've been writing for a long time, so in five to 10 years I might, Rochelle (24:26):

Ooh, that's maybe a good idea. Molly Fader (24:27):

Be able to go back. I have not, yeah, five to 10 years. I mean there usually there's no reason to go back. I had to go back with some romances that I'd written because I was extending the series and I wanted to make sure that I got everything. And that had been about 10 years, and I was like, oh, this isn't half bad, but Rochelle (24:50):

I think you need, oh my God, I love that. I love the, oh, well, this doesn't suck. Yeah, Molly Fader (24:56):

I mean, in my memory, this was a bad boyfriend book if there ever was. But yeah, time heals a lot of wounds for sure. Rochelle (25:05):

I also feel like when writers were always editing and there was always a word choice or a comma, you would've put somewhere just for a pause, not grammatically. And I feel like if I picked up my book, I would be raging over, I can't believe I didn't say this and I should have said this. I would want to still edit. So I don't think I can pick it up again. Molly Fader (25:32):

One of the things that really bothers me about my writing are the looks like she looked, you don't need that and it's going to be everywhere. And multiple sentences that start with he or she. And I know that they're in those books, so I can't read 'em. Just Rochelle (25:53):

Little offers have that if you look up, just like everybody has just, and the words you have a million times, but I don't know that maybe some more discerning readers, but we're so much harder on ourselves than the readers. I think that the readers are just looking for entertainment and escapism, and that's most of the time, they're not most of the time. But then you have those mean reviewers that want to point out all your flaws and Molly Fader (26:24):

Then tag you in the review Rochelle (26:26):

And then tag you. It's so nice. Thank you. What am I supposed to do with this smile? Insert curse word here, Molly Fader (26:38):

Right? You are working on your next book. So can you tell us anything about it? Or if you can't tell us anything about the story, can you tell us where you are in the Rochelle (26:47):

Process? I am working on my, okay, so my eighth book comes out February 25th and my, Molly Fader (26:55):

That's this book, everybody. That's this book. We Are Made of Stars. Rochelle (26:59):

And I am done with the first horrible, miserable draught of Book nine, which is working title. I wish I never met you. Molly Fader (27:11):

Oh, that's good. Rochelle (27:11):

And it is. And my editor at the time, she said to me, Rochelle, you need to write another. This is not how it ends, which was one of my most successful books. And it was just a heartbreaking love story. And I just decided to heed her advice. And this is what I call an epic love story. Maybe it's along the lines of me Before you meets Fault in our stars, talk about, just Kill Me. You too. Cheerful. Cheerful and uplifting and clubs. Cry Fest, C Cry Fest. You're saying, actually, it's funny. I think I'm becoming a little bit funnier in my old age maybe. I just think life is just such a joke at this point. But there is a nice balance of some, it's humour it, it's a beautiful love story. And I have to tell you, I have loved writing this book. Loved Molly Fader (28:21):

The Bad Boyfriend. Books often mean you're going to get a gift book next. The bad boyfriends come along. You never know when they're going to happen. But when they do, you are often granted an angel book after Rochelle (28:38):

God willing, Molly Fader (28:39):

God. So you finished the rough draught, you're on a really steady clip here. It's a book a year for you right now. Rochelle (28:50):

I don't think this one's going to be, I know my agent is going to, there's a lot of holes in this book that we need to fill. So I'm looking forward to getting it to her just to get that holistic, like, okay, this is what we need to do and I'm going to really spend my time on this one because I really love it and I really care about it, and I don't need to put a book out a year. It's happened that way because I've had books inside of me that came out very quickly. But I'm not, if things go accordingly, I think this would hopefully be a 2026 book, 27, because 26 means a book a year, Molly Fader (29:40):

Right? Yeah. And also what is time? Where are we now? What is happening? Yeah, exactly. Done right now. Are you able to read all the time while writing, or are there certain times in the process where you can't read? Rochelle (29:58):

I can read. I'm not one of those that can't read because it distracts me from my writing. And I am very particular about what times of day I'm reading. But I will listen to audio books anytime I'm out walking my dogs when I walk the neighbourhood biking or in the car. So I do spend a lot of time listening during the day. At nighttime, I save for actually reading in bed. Molly Fader (30:29):

Yeah, me too. Rochelle (30:29):

Relaxes me before bed. And then sometimes if I'm woken up by my snoring husband at four in the morning and I can't go back to sleep, then I'll listen to my audiobook, set it to 30 minutes and I'm asleep, and then I have to go back and rewind everything because Molly Fader (30:43):

You missed it all. So putting you on the spot, can you tell us one great audiobook you've listened to and one great book you've read recently or that have stood out for you? Rochelle (30:57):

Okay, so I read the New Wally Lamb, which is so heartbreaking and so beautiful. It's coming out, I think in March. Hold on now. You're going to have to edit all this. Hold on, I'll start it over. Molly Fader (31:17):

I'll let you know. I'm probably not going to edit it. It's charming. It's charming, it's charming. It's charming. She's looking on her phone to see what she's Rochelle (31:29):

Looking, okay, but I lied. The river's waiting. I read an advanced copy. It's Wally Lamb's new book, and it's coming out in May, and it's such a difficult subject, but I love gritty, difficult subjects where you just, they break your heart, but they really make you see human quality that comes out of such horrible, horrible situations. So that was an amazing book that I read. And then as far as Audible, what I've listened to, it's so funny, everyone I know in the world is listening to Let Them by Mel Robbins. Someone pisses you off and does something, let them heard about it. It's like everybody's reading it. Everybody's listening to it right now. So I'm actually listening to Let Them Them Theory right now by Mel Robbins. But I'm trying to think if there was anything that blew me away at Lisa Jewel's book. I loved her book and I interviewed her here in Florida. Books and books. She was amazing. But her latest book, which I can't even remember the name, I listened on Audible and it was fantastic. Molly Fader (32:42):

She's one of those authors that really, she's packaged as kind of thriller, kind of domestic thriller, but the characters are so nuanced and fictiony and the pacing isn't quite a thrill. She just really owns that space, I think in such an interesting way. I quite like her stuff too. Rochelle (33:09):

What was the name of the book, if I could find it? What's her new book? Oh my God. Now we're going to drive each other crazy. Molly Fader (33:16):

I'm looking for it right now. Rochelle (33:18):

None of this is true. Okay. It title, her paperback copy just came out. So the book's been out for a while, but I listened to it on Audible and it was great. Molly Fader (33:31):

Those are two great books. Two great books to pick up, Rochelle, and please, everybody out there, please pick up. We Are Made of Stars. It is the book you're looking for after you watch season three of White Lotus. It is. Got that. All that fun energy and dark humour and big secrets and true human feelings. Rochelle, thank you so much for coming by to Rochelle (33:55):

Talk us today. Thank you, Molly. You're awesome. Thank you to everybody Molly Fader (33:58):

Out. You're awesome. Everybody out there. Please go pick up this book. We'll talk to you soon. Bye bye. Speaker 1 (34:04): 

Day.