Entrepreneurship is Hard When You Are 25 Selling 7 Figures with Dickson Leung

On this episode I’m talking to Dickson Leung, who is an online amazon seller who is well into the 7 figures, running a super automated online arbitrage business and, oh he is only 25 years old.  

We talk about his journey, wins and a number of struggles along the way.  

We dig a little deeper into the struggles of entrepreneurship and finding balance.  

I have known Dickson for over 6 years now and every time I talk to him I learn more and he amazes me.  

I think you will find he will motivate you, show you what is possible but also show you some of the pitfalls being a business owner has.

On this episode we mention:
Keepa: https://keepa.com/

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Transcript

[00:00:00.680] - Rob
Are you the person sitting in an office looking around at your boss and coworkers and just feel like I don't belong there, that things are just so inefficient and political, they should be happy since society says you need to get this job after university? Well, I interview today with someone who had a very young age, decided I don't need to follow the mold, I'm going to do things differently the way I want to do it. And then the next episode is telling you, yes, I can do it to cue the intro music.

[00:00:33.930] - Rob
Welcome to the selling from the Beach podcast, where we talk about selling online, making money and creating a lifestyle that you want recording from the white sandy beaches of Costa Rica. Here's your host, Rob Cosman. Today on Episode 003, I'm talking to Dickson Leung, who's an online Amazon seller who is well into the seven figures running a super successful automated online arbitrages business. Oh, and he's only twenty five years old. We talk about his journey wins and a number of struggles along the way.

[00:01:11.180] - Rob
Dig a little deeper into the struggles of entrepreneurship and finding the balance. I've known Dickson for over six years now and every time I talk to him I learn more and he amazes me. I think you'll find that he will motivate you to show you what's possible, but also show you some of the pitfalls of being a business owner has. Let's get to the podcast.

[00:01:32.180] - Rob
Hi, Dixon. Welcome to the show today. So stoked to have you here. And we're actually doing a little face to face, even though this will be a podcast. But it's it's good to see you again. And we always just seemed to chat on Facebook.

[00:01:44.750] - Dickson
Yeah, I'm glad to be here. Nice seeing you again, Rob.

[00:01:49.280] - Rob
Again, as I always say, you know, the network of people, you know, and you never end up really seeing them face to face very often. But it's always good to catch up. And I always appreciate having conversations with you, even if they're over text message or whatever weird hours of the day you seem to work sometimes.

[00:02:07.970] - Rob
I'm pretty sure that you've done more podcast interviews than me. So you have to bear with me because this is only the third one here. And I know you're a bit of a minor celebrity in the Amazon world. So every time I talk to you, I feel like I'm playing checkers and you're playing chess and the wealth of knowledge you have and what you've built and so such a short time is awesome. So I want to talk a little bit about that, and then I want to talk a bit about your journey, because it's when you're pretty young guy and kind of what you've done and the way you approached it and kind of get into business is breaking molds.

[00:02:38.840] - Rob
I think I definitely would have had the courage when I was that age. But I'm an old man now, so I see things a lot differently.

[00:02:45.470] - Rob
So let's just start and give a bit of an intro on kind of your back story. Where do you live right now and what did you do and how did you kind of get on to online selling and when you get started?

[00:02:56.960] - Dickson
Well, thank you for that Rob. Appreciate it. I currently live in Vancouver. As you said, I'm pretty young. I'm twenty five years old. How I got started in online selling ever since I was a kid, I was into flipping things. So, you know, as 

[00:03:13.940] - Rob
but you are kid, you're still a kid now you're 25, Dude, I still can't believe I have your age somewhere here. I know what your birthdate is, but like you're twenty five and I've seen you crashing and for multiple years, I mean when you first started with something blows my mind 

[00:03:28.650] - Dickson
started when I was really young 

[00:03:30.060] - Rob
started are up to you on that.Yes. 

[00:03:31.910] - Dickson
Yeah. As I said on a previous podcast, as a kid, as a eight year, as a 10 year old, I would sit in video games and just flip things.

[00:03:39.370] - Dickson
That's that's how I had fun. I wouldn't go play the game. I wouldn't fight the monsters. I would go in with a calculator and say, OK, if I do this activity, I make you know this watch like Inken to switch switchboard. I did this other activity. I was born there and I would do all those calculations. I would test them like I would literally sit there, do it for an hour. OK, I made the switch.

[00:04:00.560] - Dickson
Do that for an I made the switch and then I would figure out what's most optimal way to do it. And then if there was a marketplace in the game, I would actually just buy itself and I would sit in the marketplace and just buy and sell and buy and sell if the wait, five hours, eight hours at a time and then that's how I had fun as a kids. So it was in my blood since I was a kid, and it was something that just came so natural to me.And so 

[00:04:24.220] - Rob
wait wait is this like, Mafia wars? Is that what you were doing or what were the game?

[00:04:28.510] - Dickson
No, this was a this was Rinski

[00:04:31.790] - Dickson
 Okay

[00:04:31.890] - Dickson
back in the day. It was a it was a game that we all played. It was there was a marketplace that you could buy and sell like any item in the game. So it's very similar to Amazon now where I'm buying and selling like just physical products. 

[00:04:47.110] - Rob
But it's still a game to you. It's a game you basically just framed up how you look at it now. 

[00:04:52.970] - Dickson
Yeah, I mean, business is the game.

[00:04:55.160] - Dickson
Life is game, right? I see my entire life as a game. This is one really big long game. That there's all these structures, there's all these rules, there's all these ways of playing, there's all these methods right? Like you have, you have the business game, you have to finance game. You have the relationship game. You have you know put it all together. It's one big game. 

[00:05:19.030] - Rob
OK, so started as a kid, you started flipping in game money and then how old were you then like 12, 14? Kind a?

[00:05:27.180] - Dickson
Yeah.

[00:05:27.800] - Rob
OK, 

[00:05:28.450] - Dickson
10, 12. 

[00:05:30.470] - Rob
OK

[00:05:31.420] - Dickson
either those ages, 

[00:05:31.910] - Rob
OK.

[00:05:32.170] - Dickson
 And then. I was I was a rebel and I was a big gamer as a kid, so I didn't really start making real money until university. And what I did in university was I was buy that I was going about my own business, I was buying and selling textbooks like any other university kit, and I figured out that I could buy it and sell these little decal eye clippers and there list little like remotes that are multiple choice.

[00:06:03.060] - Dickson
If you imagine like a TV remote and a ABCDE and basically use that in class to answer questions. And a lot of professors would use that. So for participation marks. And so they went through a question like, is the answer abcde you click and then the the remote is hide your identity and then you get you get marks for that. And so what I figured out was there was a margin in there, so sometimes like people had a rush, would sell for 10 bucks and people who really want to load buy 30 bucks.

[00:06:36.420] - Dickson
So once I figured that out and this was Facebook. So this was before before Facebook marketplace was a thing. This was when every when Congress was happening on Facebook groups, I would just sit in in my school student hub and I would buy and sell those and I would go like you know five or ten trades a day and I would buy a clicker. And then I was looking out later

[00:06:59.070] - Rob
 that's all

[00:07:00.750] - Dickson
 and I'll make a 20 dollar margin whenever I did that. And as an 18 year old, I was super thrilled with that.

[00:07:06.650] - Rob
So were you just like sitting in your student center and then you just set up meet ups that people who just come in and drop on off?

[00:07:12.720] - Dickson
 Yeah, exactly. 

[00:07:15.690] - Rob
Good, Awesome And immediately, like, I'm starting the arbitrage game right there.

[00:07:19.680] - Dickson
 Yeah. Like, I just saw that opportunity and I took advantage of it. 

[00:07:23.820] - Rob
OK It started on the clickers you started on what textbooks next? 

[00:07:29.970] - Dickson
Yes, and then I moved on to textbooks and basically I realized something was happening for textbooks and I did textbooks for a little while.

[00:07:37.800] - Dickson
So I sold maybe like 20 of them. And then I started realizing, oh, like there is a seasonality to textbooks and even clickers to an extent where at the end of semester. Nobody wanted textbooks at the beginning of the semester. Everybody wanted textbooks. So after a term or two, I got smart and what I started doing was paying dirt cheap for them at the end of a semester when everyone everyone's trying to sell them. And I would collect like 10 or 20 just in of the exact same textbooks.

[00:08:09.870] - Dickson
And then I would sell it for double the price after in September when everybody wanted them. And that worked out really well. One term, I think can be two hundred, three hundred bucks. The first time I tried that and then the second time I tried to do the same thing.

[00:08:25.500] - Dickson
And then they came up with a new edition, 

[00:08:27.400] - Rob
I was going to say, you're buying them, hoping that they're going to go up but they're going to have the same edition.Right?

[00:08:33.660] - Dickson
No. And with anyone that those textbooks, no it was new edition, the old different becomes worthless. So I end up losing a couple hundred bucks on the on the second semester and I realized, oh, this is bad luck. And there's very little it's extremely difficult to figure out when they're coming off the new edition like nobody tells you. And it's just it just kind of happens. So I realized that you know this. Betting model is kind a gamble, take a little bit

[00:09:08.420] - Rob
 Yeah buy them off season, and you're hoping it does get replaced with the new model before you get to dump them?

[00:09:12.350] - Dickson
Absolutely.

[00:09:13.370] - Rob
Are you going to find the other University before you go find the other university that hasn't upgraded yet? Right. Because 

[00:09:18.860] - Dickson
Exactly

[00:09:19.040] - Rob
 it's that it was always the teacher. If the teacher's names on the book, you're like, yeah, he's totally going to put out a new one, he or she is going to put on a new one almost every year, going to change like five words on it and then get another reality check, right? 

[00:09:32.760] - Dickson
Exactly

[00:09:33.440] - Rob
OK, so clickers, textbooks halfway through university, I'm guessing by now.

[00:09:39.680] - Dickson
I and then I moved on to cell phones because I thought this was none of this was had anything to do with Amazon. None of it had anything to do with e commerce other than like I did Facebook groups. That was it like Facebook Marketplace was not a thing I did facebook groups edit for GG for those of you don't know GG pretty much Craigslist to certain parts of Canada. And I started realizing the opportunity of attention was really. The opportunity of attension of supply and demand, that gap that happened in textbooks when it was off season versus on season that existed in cell phones, and the reason why is because if a cell phone breaks, if your cell phone breaks down, you want what's more, you don't care if it's 50 bucks, what do you want. What's more,

[00:10:28.630] - Rob
 one hundred percent. 

[00:10:29.990] - Dickson
And that's I figure that out. And that's where I realized the opportunity was. So, again, I did the same thing. Like, I lowballed everyone and I paid for it.

[00:10:42.600] - Dickson
I was I was mostly dealing with cell phones in the hundred dollar to two hundred three hundred dollar range. I worked my way up because everything is proof of concept. Right. But I was doing a lot of stuff around two hundred dollar range and I would pay about one hundred fifty, one hundred sixty bucks and I would literally just sit on Kajiji and just send messages to every single person, like I'll pay you a hundred fifty bucks, I'll be there like today with cash and you know you message.

[00:11:10.770] - Dickson
One hundred people to tell them about see us . And then on the other hand like once I got cell phone, I would just sit there and say, OK, it's two hundred and fifty bucks. It's a two hundred dollar cell phone. But if you want it today. Two hundred fifty bucks that I'll deliver to you.So 

[00:11:26.550] - Rob
Premium customer service comes a premium price.

[00:11:30.010] - Dickson
 Exactly, and so what ended up happening was I was sitting on those cell phones for a long time, but the day that someone message me and you get a hundred bucks. 

[00:11:40.290] - Rob
For how long? How long would you sit on them before them? 

[00:11:43.620] - Dickson
Like two to three weeks for each

[00:11:45.160] - Rob
Oh OK

[00:11:46.260] - Dickson
 And that was a long time because I could flip long like every day or multiple cell phones a day, so. I kind of learned a little bit book capital management and, you know, 

[00:12:00.980] - Rob
hey, it's funny when you're telling telling us that you did what you started, you could do that exact same thing today. Still, if you want it. Right, but now you've upped your game. But I mean, it's the same thing, as you said, proof of concept, small risk, take little risk, are building it up. Right. I mean, that's exactly what your business is now, just on a grander scale and way more efficient. There's no way you'd be their messaging. You probably read an script e-mail and you'd have like 18 fake accounts or something and do it and get it. I know. I know how you evolve. OK, so then cell phones and then when what was next?

[00:12:36.260] - Dickson
 I was really getting to a point of cell phones where I couldn't wait two or three weeks, like I didn't want to sit around just waiting. And so I started looking into other platforms and I started selling on eBay a little bit. I started selling the stuff on eBay. But I realized that with shipping and fees, like my margin got cut to a point where it kind of just sucked.

[00:12:58.250] - Dickson
And then I looked in Amazon. Because I thought I could I could flip this stuff on Amazon, if I can flip on eBay, why on Amazon, and then the long answer is you can't really sell your stuff on Amazon. Technically you can, but you'll get a lot of trouble, put it that way. 

[00:13:16.490] - Rob
It's risky, right?

[00:13:18.080] - Dickson
 It's very risky. But in researching Amazon, I found the thrifting model. And really, the retail arbitrage model kind of a little bit of both, and so I started thrifting because I realized it was the same thing, except that the band was there.

[00:13:32.880] - Dickson
Like, there's a difference when you are when I flipping cell phones where I'm kind of creating a demand, I have to put out the ad. I have to do the marketing like there is a demand there. But I really have to do a lot of work to be in front of a customer, whereas Amazon. You have to keep a chart, and when you have to keep your chart, you know what the demand is and just throw it up and, you know, it sounds like you don't have to do any of that.

[00:14:01.660] - Dickson
But work the marketing the sales component just goes away. 

[00:14:05.540] - Rob
Right. And I think sometimes people lose sight of that. Amazon sellers and they think Amazon is taking such a big fee, they're taking a big cut. But it's where all the people are. And the amount of data, as you said, you can get from KEEPA, it's an unfair advantage. Sometimes 

[00:14:19.910] - Dickson
It is. Yeah, 

[00:14:22.090] - Rob
So then you get hooked. So now you're like, OK, now thrifting now I'm on Amazon and you're still doing that in your dorm room, right?

[00:14:29.740] - Dickson
Yeah.

[00:14:30.870] - Rob
 OK, thrifting

[00:14:32.160] - Dickson
 I was,

[00:14:32.820] - Rob
retail,

[00:14:33.400] - Dickson
 thrifting books at the beginning, and I didn't have a car, so I'm originally from Vancouver. I went to School of East New Toronto and I didn't have a car and so and I was under twenty five. So in order to rent the car, the the car companies want to charge me an arm and leg. And what I figured out is that these car share companies and I used the car.

[00:14:59.990] - Dickson
It's actually pretty famous and they rent cars by the hour or they have look at the rate and they would rent to people on twenty five feet. So I started paying 10 bucks an hour to go hit thrift stores and get books. And so in order to make it worth that, I really got the hustle and. And I did and I would hit you don't like six, seven, eight thrift stores a day and fill up the car, sometimes even for multiple cars with just books, and then I would spend the weekend processing like I didn't have a life.

[00:15:33.890] - Dickson
Well, that's all I did. I just source. 

[00:15:36.010] - Rob
But you're still in school, too, right?

[00:15:37.880] - Dickson
 I was still in school. I was doing OK in school, but I like just didn't really care about social life. You know, I didn't really talk to my friends. And because I was thought like this was the best thing ever. You know? So, yeah. So I hustled really hard out of my dorm room and I started making real money, especially as you know a 19, 20 year old.

[00:16:01.940] - Dickson
I was making a couple grand a month. And I was I was amazing. I was finally able to think, 

[00:16:09.070] - Rob
yeah, you can go to the the student pub and not wait for happy hour.

[00:16:12.230] - Rob
You can pay a full price and it's OK. You're living good. You actually have bad is now no longer on milk crates. It's actually its own frame.

[00:16:24.050] - Rob
If you started doing that and you went to school, you did an undergrad. Right. You did four years and then. OK, should you need to get a job?

[00:16:36.430] - Dickson
 I did have jobs, so I went to school in Canada, called the University of Waterloo, and the thing they're most famous for is the co-op program. And so I was going into university. I always thought that I would work my way up the corporate ladder, get to like 40, 50, have a bunch of money, and then go start my own thing.

[00:16:59.470] - Dickson
I was like business was my thing. I was going to my own business, but I thought the path to get there was through the corporate world.

[00:17:08.330] - Dickson
What what my university did was because we were forced into co-ops, right? We had to complete the six co-ops six co-ops terms. So those are four months internships. And I went to, you know, real like really, really big companies. I work for are really two really big banks, one of them on Bay Street, which is Canada's version of Wall Street, and I worked corporate and, you know, I wore a suit and tie going to work every day reporting to my boss.

[00:17:39.490] - Dickson
And there was so much office politics and there were so much inefficiencies that I really hated it. It just I figured out that it wasn't for me like it was. I thought it was the dream. I thought I'd hit the jackpot by working on Bay Street. You know, I was

[00:18:01.090] - Rob
 age of what 20,21? Come up

[00:18:03.820] - Dickson
 like twenty one. Yeah, 

[00:18:05.040] - Rob
yeah, yeah. So was there one moment, like one interaction or one something that was just like triggered it. Yeah I know for sure this is not it. 

[00:18:15.890] - Dickson
It was a couple so the first was. I was. I was really driven and I was smart, so I was very I was always very good at figuring things out and so my boss took me to task.

[00:18:28.440] - Dickson
And these are they real teach you cross students every couple of months. Right. So they're used to like here are the processes you need to wrote. And so they give me a task. I'm like, OK, give me like two weeks. And so in two weeks, I'm like, OK, I've automated this entire thing. You just press this button on this stuff. And then my boss is like, OK, like this is what we give to every cross student and I have the work for you.

[00:18:52.740] - Rob
You broke the system. You

[00:18:54.870] - Dickson
 I broke the system. Yeah. And then so she was like constantly try to find more work for me. And every time she would find way I would just automated. And or make it look really simple, like something used to eight hours that can get it down to like an hour or half an hour and it would just be done. And like almost every week I'd like do you have more work do you have more work. Like, I'm not I'm not doing anything.

[00:19:18.980] - Dickson
Like, I don't know why I'm coming into work anymore because I'm not doing anything. Like, I'm just literally sitting there listening to podcast because I've nothing better to do. But you have to look this great because the corporate structure. 

[00:19:31.510] - Rob
Right, you can't you can't leave before six. You know, you don't want to be seen leaving too early, even if you have nothing to do. It's the perception.

[00:19:39.050] - Dickson
Exactly. And so I just opened a spreadsheet and like to scroll around. I was like, that's corporate. And then I also realized that the rest of my team, the full time employees have been there for ten years, like I was doing more than I had more access and permission, like. I had more permission and responsibilities that dated and never getting paid for couple of hours that and I was like, this is broken, I can't work. I can't I can't survive.

[00:20:11.770] - Dickson
Like, how do I stay in 20, 30, 40 years on this? Like, this is not for me, 

[00:20:16.350] - Rob
Right so then what were you gonna do?

[00:20:20.500] - Dickson
I didn't know, but I knew that was it like I would just be so miserable if I went into that life and that's really when I started. Getting into Amazon, like after that job was the thrifting and the retail arbitrage and it started taking off and I said maybe there's something here, like maybe I just jump and see how this works out and see what this leads to you know. And so that's what I did.

[00:20:48.960] - Rob
So how was that conversation with your parents? 

[00:20:55.070] - Dickson
Ahm. They were really supportive, but. The words that came out of their mouth were really supported by

[00:21:06.620] - Rob
 the words, but mom's eyes, so that's what I told the roof, 

[00:21:15.200] - Dickson
Yeah, but they were all entrepreneurs right? They they ran businesses, they were big investors in real estate back in their days, so they knew this was something I had to do. Like even if I crashed and burned and became a hobo and homeless, it was they both understood this was the path I had to go down and I had to go through, which is why they were supportive. But at the same time, like B, I don't think they believed in me one hundred percent to make it work.

[00:21:46.150] - Rob
Sure, but at least you had parents that had that background and you've seen that, 

[00:21:50.660] - Dickson
yeah,

[00:21:51.520] - Rob
 you know, that probably also gave you a bit of permission in your own mind, right? 

[00:21:55.390] - Dickson
Of course

[00:21:56.260] - Rob
 It feasible. But I mean, what's what's worst case? You get another job right? That you're able to get a job that easily. So that's the downside, right? You just go get a job. 

[00:22:06.510] - Dickson
Exactly. 

[00:22:07.600] - Rob
OK, so now you start taking a more serious you start building the business. Then what where where are you now? Where are you right now? Just high level. 

[00:22:22.530] - Dickson
Like Today. Right now, I run a online arbitrage business where one hundred percent, OA, I have four virtual assistants full time and a local employee were you know well, into the seven figures yeah have in Vancouver living, I'm in Vancouver right now because of COVID, but I, I love traveling, so I travel a lot. I have plans to move far away as soon as covid kinda finishes.

[00:22:56.740] - Dickson
And the business allows me to freedom to do that. I can live anywhere in the world that I want. 

[00:23:02.540] - Rob
Wait, you don't have a warehouse, right? You don't have a warehouse. 

[00:23:05.210] - Dickson
Not have warehouse. 

[00:23:06.460] - Rob
Do you touch anything yourself like any of the prep? They all go to third parties. 

[00:23:12.710] - Dickson
It all goes to prep center.

[00:23:14.920] - Rob
 And even your local employee that you have to get together, does he or she at their place where you have an office?

[00:23:21.550] - Dickson
 Today, we actually live together because he's my best friend from college, so he's my right hand man. And recently I just got a train with really all the bike. So he's been with me for the last six months, like we've been living together. And he's at the point now where he's managing the the sourcing team. He's vetting everything and he's buying everything. So I don't. If I really wanted, I could take off for two months and the business will be fine

[00:23:48.620] - Rob
 as long as as long as he has your credit card, right?

[00:23:51.290] - Dickson
Yes. And he does right for like. Yeah, like I have the front end all all taken care of, like all the photos from sourcing and so it goes live on Amazon that's more or less taken care of. I sometimes have to jump in like maybe like half an hour or an hour a week to resolve issues here and there. But other than that, like it's pretty automated. So now it just becomes the back end. Still a bit of a mess.

[00:24:19.650] - Dickson
Like I'm still doing a lot of replacing a lot of sellercentral stuff account how that stuff is still on my plate, but I hope to offload as soon

[00:24:32.910] - Rob
well an interesting year. Let's go back to you said this about when you were in university, no social life. And, you know, you and I talk about this every once in a while, like being entrepreneurs hard I mean for you right now. I mean, what you just described is most people's end game, you know, most people's dream, like literally I can take off two months and not do anything.

[00:24:53.220] - Rob
And the odd thing here, there. But guess what, if you weren't reachable, I'm sure your partner, he'd figure it out anyhow, right. You know, if it's trend growing up, so take it I mean, let's talk about what happens between then and now in the sacrifice, because, you know, you and I have said before that people don't talk about that. It's not easy to be an entrepreneur. Right?

[00:25:17.280] - Dickson
Yeah, it's it's hard, it's really, really difficult because especially if you're anything like me, I'm I'm quite an obsessive person, meaning that once I get into something, I'm spending at least eight hours a day and I can't stop thinking about it. That's what happened with with this business for me, it's you know, it was back in university. It was like eight hours, 10 hour days. And like even today, 8 hours 10 hours a day is not the same problems. 

[00:25:50.510] - Dickson
It's not  you know the skill that from the start a lot bigger and a lot more challenging. And there's a lot more. I'm doing a lot of different things, but it's still a lot of hours of work and.

[00:26:09.750] - Dickson
It's lonely, it separates you from, well, if you do it the way I do it, like you have very little time for anything else and not.

[00:26:19.600] - Dickson
 That's difficult, it's 

[00:26:21.350] - Rob
right, 

[00:26:21.680] - Dickson
iIt's part of the sacrifice that it takes to build something big.

[00:26:25.040] - Rob
Right. But then you know  I and I see this when people myself, I'm an entrepreneur and I always want to do more. That's why now I'm having a podcast like you always want to do more stuff to grow your brand and continue. But, you know, there comes a point where you've got you've got to balance it, right. Like, 

[00:26:39.070] - Dickson
yeah, exactly

[00:26:40.150] - Rob
 Incrementally another incremental dollar. One hundred dollars thousand dollars. Ten thousand dollars. Does that change your life? Does that make a difference? If you made an extra thousand bucks, is it going to change anything or are you going to feel that much more rewarded or not? And when do you decide that, OK, I'm I'm good right now. Do you stop? Do you balance it? Like, how do you. That's the unknown, and I don't have the answer.

[00:27:05.330] - Rob
How do you balance that now? I mean, you're saying that, yeah, I'm still working eight or 10 hours, but you want to travel and you're doing a lot more stuff like that. How do you how do you cope with that? 

[00:27:16.640] - Dickson
OK I don't have the answer either, and I struggle with that every day, right. Like, at some point, you just have you make enough money where it doesn't really matter, it's more like if you make five percent more, 10 percent more like so what know like you have I make enough money to cover everything, all my living expenses and more or less than anything I've ever wanted.

[00:27:43.900] - Dickson
I don't really need for so. For me, the past year and a half, two years has been trying to figure out what's next in my life and how to balance my life, because, I mean, I knew from day one it wasn't balance, but it was always temporary and temporary, lasted for years, but it could have easily lasted a lot more.

[00:28:12.510] - Rob
I say I said the same. There's like you've got relationships, you've got money, you've got business, you've got health, whether there's three or four of those. And I feel like trying to to master all of them.

[00:28:23.340] - Rob
They're just on little scales like one one's working well and the other, you know, starts to suffer. And how do you balance those out? I know that's always been a challenge for me and know just trying to consciously divide up the time and not spend as many hours working and trying to balance it out. It's it's it's tough. And I'm interesting to hear interesting to see where you end up going with yours. I mean, now it sounds like you've really automated your business.

[00:28:47.610] - Rob
You've got a very sizeable obviously you've got an infrastructure for it now and you want to travel. So what what do you think this time next year looks like for your business? Where would you be? Would you be doing. 

[00:28:58.960] - Dickson
Meet, like Dickson, spent any hours in the arbitrage side. I want to I want to throw out a private label business, I think by my talents and my strengths in really systems and processes is pretty unmatched on that on that side, at least at the small scale.

[00:29:17.340] - Dickson
And I know I can dig big splash in that space, but that's kind of what I plan on focusing. But in terms of like lifestyle, like I've been the last couple of months, I've been working with therapists for the last two weeks, I've been working with a productivity coach and it's not really productivity. Borås, like like project management, time management. So I can actually make time for things that matter.

[00:29:43.070] - Rob
To make it time to my podcast matter then.

[00:29:45.550] - Dickson
Yeah, 

[00:29:48.720] - Dickson
Thank you

[00:29:49.740] - Dickson
 Making time. 

[00:29:50.710] - Rob
But now you're making the conscious effort for it, right? 

[00:29:54.250] - Dickson
Yeah, I just I think what it comes down to was as a kid, I knew I was met to do something great. And every time I look at my life, I. Like, outwardly I'm super successful, I have I'm really young, I have all this business success, but every other part of my life was just broken like I was. I'm just not happy.

[00:30:19.280] - Dickson
And I haven't been happy with my life for a long time. Like, I just don't have the self love that was required for me to really be happy where I was that my life, I always judged myself really hard for not doing more. And that was something that I had to work really hard on the therapy and I'm still working on, but. I realize that that keeping that mindset was just the exact opposite of what I needed to become a great.

[00:30:57.190] - Dickson
It was it was not serving me and it was not what who I want it to be, and so I'm transitioning through that switch and it's it's been really, really hard. You know, a lot of crime, a lot of deep in a work, and that's it's not a fun, but it's necessary. 

[00:31:17.090] - Rob
You almost have to break it to fix it. And we we do that, how many times do I know? I've done it multiple times in my life.

[00:31:24.720] - Rob
I mean, you know, Dude you have all kinds of I still don't even know what I want to do. And I'm 40 something. I cannot even know how old I am. I'm not that good with math, but I lose track now. Basically anything after thirty six was just I'm older than thirty six now but yeah. And like, you know, now you're making a conscious switch though, not just like OK, the business is doing well now let's get Dickson doing well.

[00:31:49.070] - Rob
Right. And what you want to do that you enjoy. Did I watch your Instagram and you're like out in the woods again and you're out nature and it's fun, right?

[00:31:57.710] - Rob
It's. That's why we do it. That's why we make the money for the freedom now, so enjoy that freedom. What you built and you said you work another couple hours on it, is it going to incrementally change your business, incrementally, change your pocketbook, No what's going to incrementally change your health and happiness? I think 

[00:32:16.420] - Dickson
and and the thing is, if if you're happy, like, I'm just so much more productive. And so what I'm seeing is I'm actually working less hours and doing more work.So

[00:32:26.200] - Rob
Totally because you're jazzed and you're excited about it and you can be so much more efficient and get other stuff to do and just work, right? 

[00:32:35.390] - Dickson
Yeah, exactly.

[00:32:36.750] - Rob
 OK, let's change up a bit here. Let's do something fun. Tell me tell me what was a really good win or a good sale or something like you, I've got little stories from you every once in a while and always blows my mind. But tell me again a good find from one of your best sales, what are your best outings? 

[00:32:57.210] - Dickson
Best sales

[00:32:58.170] - Rob
Your best wins? How that came about. 

[00:33:03.450] - Dickson
I had I had one SKU that I got really lucky on for COVID, it was a

[00:33:11.280] - Rob
 Oh before COVID. So this is fairly recent

[00:33:12.970] - Dickson
 Before covid. So I was selling it last year for selling. You know, it's a supplement/vitamin and you know, people thought that when COVID happened, everyone was buying up all the health products, thinking that it will help, it gets COVID scientifically, there's some evidence there, but, you know, people people spend their money how they like, and it was it was something where.

[00:33:45.720] - Dickson
We bought a lot and we thought we're buying about a year's worth because it was just on the supplier side, it was a very stable like it went out of stock a lot. And when it goes out of stock, you can't get it for another six months or something so. When it came in stock in December, I think I bought somewhere in the ballpark of three thousand four thousand units and we bought them for 20 bucks. We're selling them for thirty five ish and we're making like five bucks each.

[00:34:17.760] - Dickson
It wasn't much, it was like 20 something percent of ROI or 30 percent, but it was selling a decent amount, maybe like 10 a day. and Yeah, and that was going great, but when when COVID hit, everyone thought that the sales kind of just took off because everyone. I was actually thinking that 

[00:34:37.840] - Rob
this is the cure this is the potential 

[00:34:38.980] - Dickson
Yeah this was the cure to stay away from COVID, you know, the stuff of it and.

[00:34:45.640] - Dickson
I don't know, I don't I don't know if there's if it actually works, but it started selling and I started raising my price and it went all the way up to 60 bucks. And I sold the majority of it at 60 bucks. And I was selling like one hundred and fifty a day. So as buying for 20 selling for 60 and making like 30 bucks a pop. And I think I sold. Two thousand units at that price, so it ended up being like 50 or 60 thousand dollars and that profit off one SKU and we got real lucky because we bought so much stuff thinking that we'd be we've been stuck for a year.

[00:35:26.120] - Rob
Right. And but that was a calculated risk you took saying, OK, it goes there out continually, can't get it then cash, but still get still get the ROI. Now, you said that's kind of a lower margin, so I'm a little surprised you did that. But I guess you got more cash than you got products. If you know you're like, OK, it's only about a 30 and you're willing to sit on that for, you know, six or eight months, right?

[00:35:46.040] - Dickson
Yeah, but it all stocks to December. Because with with arbitrage like cash flow problems hit like September, October, November, that's what everyone's life can become like. December, January, everyone's flush flush with cash. And I'm like, I don't, like that cash is gonna stay on my bank account, so I might as well put it in product.

[00:36:07.670] - Rob
Right. So you spend a lot of your money, then Q4 for the start of Q4, sell it all in Q4, and then you then try to deploy it in January, February, or you just can you spend it? You have more cash than you can spend.

[00:36:21.770] - Dickson
Yeah. You that, the problem I constantly faced every year, January, February, I just have so much cash. And because all the December sales are coming in in the form of cash that I can't spend in January fast enough. So usually how my business works is while we're spending more than we are selling and eventually by May, June, July, one of those months that typically goes approaches zero, put it that way. And we spend that down.

[00:36:52.890] - Rob
That's when you're flat, basically, and then you're selling more than you're spending, right? 

[00:36:57.110] - Dickson
Yeah, exactly. 

[00:36:58.550] - Rob
OK. Yeah, OK, then I'm going to ask the opposite. Give me give me a story that didn't work out so well and how you recovered from it. 

[00:37:08.270] - Dickson
Sorry, that didn't work out so well, 

[00:37:09.860] - Rob
yeah, because it's not always home runs, it's not always wins. There's you know, there's there's disasters along the way and there's but that's that's what we learn quite a bit from. I mean, our prep products go restricted. I've had products that weren't what I wanted them to be. I've had, you know, borders changing. You know, I've had issues importing stuff into the states. I mean, you know, trouble, but changes the rules on us.

[00:37:37.290] - Dickson
And there's so many roadblocks that we face every day. It was our world, I guess the big one was being suspended. So I. While pursuing the PL business, I opened a second account and by opening a second account, they wanted the utility bill and I did it in a way where I couldn't get a utility bill. And so I kind of left that. And then I came back a year, a year to a little bit later and open the third account with a an address where I get a utility bill and thinking that youk know, oh, like I have permission to open a second account.

[00:38:19.760] - Dickson
Of course, I have permission to open a third account and verify that the proper way and when to open the third account. What happened was it was suspended me for having multiple accounts and. The way they did it was the second account was suspended, but the third account instantly got suspended and that actually got tied back to main account, the first account. But what ended up happening was, they suspended my .ca and .mexico. But they didn't suspend my US my .com.

[00:38:56.660] - Dickson
And after, you know, it's it's been a fight. And even to this day I'm still suspended, it's been about three months. And I'm just, you know, constantly in the back and forth with them to unsuspended my ca the lucky thing was I don't really selling ca anymore, but I still have inventory. And I guess the the big, big thing that happened was after you're suspended for two months. They do an automatic disposal order on your entire inventory. So what was left of my ca account?

[00:39:30.620] - Dickson
It wasn't much usable, like 10 grand in inventory. They created a disposable a disposable order. As you know, disposable orders basically means a warehouse deals, which means Amazon profits. And they did it on a on a Friday. If I was gone for the weekend and I didn't catch it until the Monday and I was like, like what was happening here. And once I realized about halfway inventory, so got five grand just got  dispose and I couldn't recover it, those was absolutely nothing I could do about it.

[00:40:06.680] - Dickson
And that's really sucked. And then after that, I have to recall the other fight that with the inventory into my house that I was a fun, either I was just really lucky ca or was so small.

[00:40:24.230] - Dickson
Because if ca was big, like I don't know what I do, like, I need to get a warehouse, just just store it for a couple of months until I handle this thing. And it just it sucks. And that's that's part of the reality of dealing with Amazon, is they do whatever they want.

[00:40:41.420] - Rob
Yeah, totally. Unfortunately. I mean, there's good and bad. And yeah, they you're not the first person that's had crappy experiences. And I mean I'm you your size and you're still going on with the suspension. Ridiculous. And then what are you going to get lawyers involved and start to do that? And I find, you know, it's probably not a great strategy. Starts suing Amazon. What a

[00:41:04.100] - Dickson
 go solid case.

[00:41:06.260] - Rob
If they want to talk about that, I want to ask you one thing about your what do you do with your refund and your returns? Because you don't take anything here so you don't have death piles building in the corner in your house. So you have you outsourced that all through a service as well.

[00:41:21.590] - Dickson
 Yeah. It rather goes to a reimbursement guy that opens cases of the Amazon so all of expensive stuff because there they're other cheaper stuff goes to a eBay guy who just sells it on eBay.

[00:41:35.120] - Dickson
I mean, that's I eat a loss every time, but it's. I don't want to deal with importing it back to Canada and dealing with death pile. That's not that's not worth my time. It's not even worth setting up the systems for that. 

[00:41:50.080] - Rob
No. And I think I do the same. I sourced online for the most part. I've got a few things in Canada that my my helper still gets, but I also don't want to see it because it just makes me so angry, because I know that the scams and the stuff that they return and refund customers, you know, that that bothers me.

[00:42:07.070] - Rob
So the sake of, you know, if I lose five or ten dollars or 20 dollars on an item and I don't have to see that they return the pair of shoes that they wore for two football games and I can't sell. And that makes me angry because, like, yeah, we just straight out, you know, I mean, a lot of people don't know.

[00:42:22.210] - Rob
I guess that's the good thing about Amazon is that people think they're buying from Amazon. But a lot of times they're not. They're buying from small business owners. And, you know, they think it's just some faceless corporation that they're returning and getting one over on. But now it comes straight out of your pocket. Let's talk about digging up a lot of your time. But I want to talk about travel because I know you're a big travel guy and you get tons of credit card points.

[00:42:42.940] - Rob
And I always like to sit here, but I know we're in covid right now. So I'm sure you're stacking large amounts of points, but you know when COVID frees up. What do you what's the next travel plans for you?

[00:42:56.210] - Dickson
 It's a tough decision, and I've never been to that region and I've always wanted to go and I want to move there like I don't, like it this is so much cheaper and everything is. Like the cost of living is so low there that I just want to move and see how it goes, like I'm young, but I have the money to buy yo know a really nice place, not not purchased, but like rent a really nice place, have you know staff in the house.

[00:43:25.900] - Dickson
So I plan on hiring chef, hiring a maid. I don't know what else, but, you know, I can pretty much live and the like a style I want because money just goes so much further in that region.

[00:43:37.750] - Rob
And once you start getting those little simple conveniences and luxuries, you can't go back.Right? It's like you air travel now.

[00:43:46.840] - Rob
I'm sure you can't go and not go to a lounge. 

[00:43:50.240] - Dickson
Yeah, well, I mean, there are certain airports where there is the lounge or not lounge. I get it.

[00:43:58.350] - Dickson
And I'm like, oh, that sucks like I that ever lived through that

[00:44:02.410] - Rob
 100% like you're like we all have all the great credit cards and all the perks, like my kids are ruined now. My kids are five and seven like daddy, why don't we go into the lounge and get some cookies. That's not how everybody flies like, oh, where do we go to the kids room and can they change the TV for us to watch now like they're ruined, they can't go home.

[00:44:26.080] - Rob
Let me know when you're 16 traveling on your own and my credit card points, let me know how to travel is baffling. And I like your plan. Southeast Asia. You know nothing wrong with that. Get a cook. Get a maid. I know. Hopefully covid gets out, gets out of here and things start to get back to normal, would you do a permanent move, do you think you just try it out for, you know, like six months or something.

[00:44:50.220] - Dickson
I'm just going to move and see what happens, like maybe I'll here in two weeks and come back. I'm just open to that. And if if that happens, that I come back. But if it if it doesn't because 10 years, like, I don't know. But 

[00:45:03.970] - Rob
I like I like your approach because even though, you know, a lot of young guys usually are going to go on backpack and stay in hostels and all that like heck, no, I'm writing a big ass place and I'm going to get paid and I'm going to cook and I'm going to do it right from the start and really get real comfortable with the lifestyle.

[00:45:17.950] - Rob
But that's the point, right? That's why you work these long hours and that's why you didn't have the social life, right? 

[00:45:25.800] - Dickson
Yeah. And the thing about stuff is that there's enough expats that and most of the from what I understand, at least most of the expats are actually up to something, and that's a great place to build a social circle of people who are up to something. 

[00:45:43.970] - Rob
Right, except don't get sucked into the vortex of being up to something 12 hours a day again, right?

[00:45:51.160] - Dickson
Yes,

[00:45:52.930] - Rob
 because it has you know, that's the nature. That's a bit of the character flaw of an entrepreneur, right you're always going to be you know, there's just always something. There's always a business opportunity. There's always something you could do. Things just fall in your lap, you think. But it's it's temporary. That and balancing it out.

[00:46:08.110] - Dickson
No, I'm just at the point in my life where, you know, I have. I've done well for myself, and now it's time to find others to enjoy that with. I want to find others who've done well for themselves. I'm kind of in my position because I know there's a lot of people like me out there who worked really long hours. Beat it and go, I what? Yeah, and they can relate to you because, you know, that's one thing I find people that have full time jobs versus entrepreneurs, they don't necessarily relate.

[00:46:38.410] - Rob
We're not in the same. You're not relatable, right? You know. Oh, how does that Amazon selling thing you're doing still put some cell phones on Craigslist, right? 

[00:46:51.320] - Dickson
Yeah. What do you get a real job? 

[00:46:53.680] - Rob
Yeah, exactly. But, hey, you had you had the parents who supported you right from the start, whether your mom's eyes said it or not. I mean, the fact that they they nodded their head and the words came out that encouraged you. So I think that I got really lucky there 

[00:47:08.430] - Dickson
yeah, absolutely. 

[00:47:10.140] - Rob
OK, Dickson, it's been awesome. I won't take up much more of your time. Do you have any any final thoughts for anybody that might be in your position? I mean, you know, young fella just trying to figure out if you want to go to the corporate world starting out. 

[00:47:27.060] - Dickson
Just go try even like covid is just such an amazing opportunity, because one of the biggest risks you take of of trying it out is leaving a job or potentially leaving a job even if you do a side hustle, it can interfere with work. But covid it is a it's your ultimate excuse. You can quit any job you want and you just tell people, hey, I got fired for covid and no one can blame you for that.

[00:47:54.750] - Dickson
So, you know, go try it out for six months, for a year. And if it doesn't work out, you can always get a job and you lost your job due to covid. Like, who gives? Who cares? You know, like an employer can't fault you for that. Yes, it's for me, it was about chasing that desire like it was. It was something I knew in my heart I had to do, and if I never pursued it, I would be on my deathbed and I would regret it.

[00:48:25.240] - Dickson
And that's. That's a reality I couldn't face like I, I. I think about death a lot, and I think about it a lot and. It sucks like I can't imagine being 60, so I had this opportunity to go try you know the Amazon business or even any business or any thing outside of nine to five as a freelancer, I you know, I couldn't face myself that this was an opportunity. This was a path I could have gone down.

[00:49:01.890] - Dickson
And I didn't try,  that that is something that is really hard for me to deface myself with, and I knew I had to try it and so I did. So let's make a jump

[00:49:15.230] - Rob
OK don't don't don't tell yourself a false narrative. I don't justify what you're doing and why you can't do it. And I can't do it. It's not right. And my friends and my family or this my job and worked so hard. Whatever. People tell themselves all that.

[00:49:31.080] - Rob
Now, it's good advice.

[00:49:32.690] - Dickson
 The reality is you can you just you just have to take the leap.

[00:49:38.350] - Rob
 And automate 

[00:49:43.680] - Dickson
skill automation is a skill 

[00:49:45.750] - Rob
for the next time, maybe next time, if there is, hopefully I have you on again at some point, maybe it'll be episode one hundred and three instead of just three. But I thank you so much for your time. If anybody is looking to try to get a hold of you, what's the best way?

[00:50:02.450] - Dickson
Facebook to send me a Facebook message, I'm always there 

[00:50:06.920] - Rob
or picking my group, and, you know, I'm sure you'll jump in because what I'll do is I'll post the episode and I'll put some notes in there, probably take you on it. But again, man, as always, awesome having chats with you and catching up. And every time I keep forgetting how young you are, what you've how you've grown your business so quickly and it's awesome. It's just inspiring.

[00:50:26.930] - Rob
And hopefully more people younger can do exactly what you've done. So thanks, Dickson. Really appreciate it, buddy. 

[00:50:35.560] - Dickson
Thank you Rob. 

[00:50:38.240] - Rob
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