Icons & Innovators Episode 4

In this episode, Michelle Klein of Berkley Professional Liability sits down with Robert Crocitto of ARC Excess and Surplus, a CRC Group Company, to discuss his 38-year career in the professional liability industry. They discuss leadership, mentorship, and the impact of AI on a business built on relationships. Robert shares career setbacks, advice for industry professionals, and what it takes to build and lead a great team.

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Icons & Innovators--Episode 4

PLUS Staff: [00:00:00] Hello. Thank you for listening to this PLUS Podcast, Icons & Innovators. Icons & Innovators is a podcast series spotlighting influential leaders and forward-thinking changemakers in the professional liability industry. Michelle Klein, of Berkeley Professional Liability, will be hosting this episode and will be joined by featured guest Robert Crocitto of ARC Excess and Surplus, a CRC Group Company.

Before we get started, we would like to remind everyone that the information and opinions expressed by our speakers today are their own and do not necessarily represent the views of their employers or of PLUS. The contents of these materials may not be relied upon as legal advice. With the housekeeping announcements out of the way, I am pleased to turn it over to Michelle [00:01:00] Klein.

Michelle Klein: Good afternoon, everybody. I'm truly honored to be having a nice chat with Rob Crocitto, a true icon and innovator of the professional liability industry. I have had the pleasure of serving on the PLUS Foundation Board with Rob, and I have been very fortunate to learn so much from him. I hope you will all enjoy what you learn from him today.

How are you today, Rob? 

Robert Crocitto: Doing great, Michelle. I think I learn more from you than you ever did from me.

Michelle Klein: You're so kind. 

Rob and I have served on the Professional Liability Underwriting Society's Foundation Board. Rob, maybe you could tell a little bit about yourself and what your contributions to PLUS have been.

Robert Crocitto: Sure.  I've been in the insurance business now for 38 years. I've always been a broker. The first 12 years of my career [was] as a retail insurance broker. [For] my last [00:02:00] 26 years now, [I] have been at ARC Excess and Surplus, which is a CRC company. I currently serve as the president of the ARC division of CRC.

As far as PLUS, I had the privilege of being a board member for seven years, having also served on the executive committee for the PLUS Foundation. [I] also served as its president. [I] finished up my PLUS Foundation career as a board advisor. I did that for a year at the end. It was great. It was a great experience.

It was really nice to work with the different programs that the PLUS Foundation does, particularly the Conference Cause. I love doing that. [I] love working with the LAMP program [and] the Women's Leadership Network (WLN). They do so many great things,

Michelle Klein: Yeah. For all those listening out there, [if it wasn’t] for PLUS, I would never have had the opportunity to meet Rob, work with him and form a professional relationship with him. [PLUS] is a really good [00:03:00] organization in which you can go out and network, meet people that are not in your vertical and really learn a lot from them. 

So, we'll start with our first question. You spent years navigating the professional liability industry. What leadership qualities are most critical for success today, and what's the one leadership mistake professionals make too often?

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. In my opinion, a good leader is a good listener. A good leader assesses the talent within his or her team or group of people that they're leading. Because I believe that everybody at some point or another has something positive to contribute. It's really about trying to identify what talents those individuals have and how that can be a contributing factor to the team.

I believe a good leader empowers those under him or her to take the next steps to becoming the next leader. I think it's [00:04:00] incumbent upon leaders to spend the time training those people below them to make them more successful than they were. 

Michelle Klein: Yeah, I agree. 

Robert Crocitto: A bad leader says, "I'll do everything."

They just kind of scoff it all up. They don't have the trust maybe in the people under them to do things the way they want it. 

Michelle Klein: Yeah. No, I agree with you. I think one leadership quality that makes a lasting impact on others is empowering those people. And it doesn't have to be in their direct job. It could be to empower them to get on a board outside of their company and start to make an impact, whether it's Future PLUS, a young person joining Future Plus and getting on their committee and eventually learning how to be a board member so that they can go on to broaden their career and their network. I agree, if people like you and I are always saying, “Yes,” and not giving other people an opportunity, we're not great leaders 

[00:05:00] Every successful career is influenced by others along the way. Was there a mentor who had a meaningful impact on your professional journey? I know you've had the opportunity to mentor someone whose success has been rewarding to you as well as to them. Maybe you could talk about both of those things? 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. I would say when I started my career in 1989, there was a gentleman by the name of Alan Samuels. He was the CEO of Franklin Company, which is now EPIC. Alan actually invested a lot of time in me, helping me understand how clients think because to be a good broker, you need to understand the mindset of your insured.

Alan spent a lot of time working with me on that and stressing service. Pricing might not always be the best if you're competing with someone, but if you service the heck out of a client, they're going to take that into consideration. [00:06:00] It's going to give you an edge at the end. He was probably the best at it. Having handled so many accounts for 30- 40 years and passing some of those relationships on to me and I was able to keep those because of what he taught me. 

As far as mentoring, I mentor for two organizations. I mentor for the PLUS Foundation through the Leadership and Mentoring Program (LAMP). That's been absolutely amazing. It's when you have a young professional from a diverse background who is coming to you and looking to you for ways that they can better themselves and advance their career. It’s flattering on my side, but it's more rewarding than anything watching the plan that the two of you put together actually come to fruition. That’s kind of the first part of it.

I also mentor for The Bridge Transcends, which is another organization. I'm extremely fond of it. What The Bridge does is it works very closely with young professionals, [00:07:00] mostly women but it could be men. It helps them with networking, mentoring, giving them exposure to senior people in the business to kind of help them with issues they may be having in the workplace [or] just career advice and things like that. I've been doing that now for the last five years, I think. It's been absolutely amazing. I've enjoyed it a lot. 

Michelle Klein: Yeah, I know some of the people who have been mentored by you. It's been such a rewarding experience for them. I, myself, have been able to be a mentor to some young professionals. It's rewarding, and it's a nice way for us to give back.

Robert Crocitto: Sure is 

Michelle Klein: Innovation comes in many forms. AI, of course, is top of mind at most companies right now. What company, technology, product, or industry trend do you believe is generally changing the future of insurance, and why? It may be AI. 

Robert Crocitto: I hate to say AI because it's so obvious. I was trying to [00:08:00] be unique, but I can't be- 

Michelle Klein: Can an innovator talk about something else?

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. I think, look, we can't avoid it. It's the future of our industry. Clients want data. Clients want knowledge. They want to know what their exposures are. They want to know what limits they should be buying. They want to know what retentions make sense for them, things along those lines.

As a human being, experience can only spit the data out so fast. AI is just so quick, so convenient and efficient. It enables us to do our job faster.

It does scare me a little for some of the younger professionals in our industry. I just hope that we can deploy AI and its capabilities in a manner that will preserve jobs as best we can because I don't want to see-- This very much a people business. 

This is very much a relationship business. When I [00:09:00] started in this business, there weren't fax machines. There was a Telex spitting out three miles of paper down the hallway. Binders were hand delivered. You met with the underwriter, and you discussed the risk and what coverages were agreed to and not agreed to.

When you do that, you develop trust and a mutual respect between you and your trading partners. I'm sorry, [but] AI cannot duplicate that. So, I do think that's important ... 

Michelle Klein: I think your clients still want to meet the people who are going to be potentially handling their business. I know from a claims perspective, as I'm on the claim side of the organization, it's nice when we go and meet with clients when [we] want to either be on their account or be their primary carrier. It's a great opportunity for me to go and actually speak with the client, have one-on-one, and explain our philosophy here because each carrier has a different philosophy as [00:10:00] to how they handle their claims.

 I don't know why [we] would want to change [that]. I think risk managers and CFOs of companies and their treasurers probably like the opportunity to meet the people they're going to deal with either on the underwriting side or, god forbid the insured has a claim. 

Robert Crocitto: Yep. I agree with that.

Michelle Klein: Yeah, but we all have to jump on the bandwagon, right? Be innovative and move forward. 

Robert Crocitto: We do. 

Michelle Klein: If you could sit down with yourself on your first day in this wonderful industry, what advice would you give? How might it have changed your career journey? 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. I guess I'm going to kind of answer this a little differently than how you're asking it, but it gets to your point. If I had one kind of regret, what I would've done differently [is] I probably would've been an underwriter or worked for an insurance company before working for a broker right away.  [00:11:00] I say that because I’ve never underwritten business. Professionally, I underwrite, I pre-underwrite deals before I broker them. 

I was never an underwriter, and I feel like that's a characteristic that will make you a better broker. When you understand the underwriting mindset or even the claims mindset, when you're framing a claim and explaining and discussing coverage issues and things like that--- I just feel like I wish I would've had some experience on that side.

I'm a self-taught underwriter because good brokers pre-underwrite things. Just by doing it for 38 years, you kind of know what to look for and what to read about and things like that and how to prep a client. But I do, I wish I would've had some underwriting experience, professionally.

Michelle Klein: That's really good information to provide to other people. Would you recommend to someone who is a young broker right [00:12:00] now to at some point, early on in their career, maybe switch to the other side? Spend two or three years underwriting, and then coming back to the brokerage house versus spending their whole career being a broker. And/or would you recommend if you're a broker, I'll use what I know, a D&O broker, would you recommend that they expand their horizon and go become a cyber underwriter for a little while? Event go to the property side of the house or the casualty side of the house and learn those lines as well [to] broaden their horizon?

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. It's an interesting question because it's kind of hard when you've been brokering for a couple of years to take a step back and then go into underwriting because now you're kind of making a career change and maybe your book of business is just starting to get going? That's a little difficult. 

What I do recommend-- I do get involved with training most of the young professionals here at the ARC [00:13:00] office. I do recommend that they spend time to self-educate in a way by taking classes on understanding financials.

A lot of the different insurance companies put out-- you see it on LinkedIn all the time, "Hey, we're doing a, a webinar on how to understand reading a balance sheet and how to understand financials," things like that. I think they should take the initiative to do that. I think they should learn that. I do think that they have to pursue professional designations. When you get your RPLU, you learn a lot about the different coverages. 

I think it's incumbent upon the employers to take the time. Here at ARC, myself, Chris Cavallaro, Mike Cavallaro [and] Janet Dreifuss, we all take the time to meet with our younger professionals. We will actually have training classes. It'll be talking about a coverage [and] how to sell it.

Janet will talk about the claims process and how to be a good broker advocate for a [00:14:00] client during the claim process. During a claim process, there's not only the claims advocate, but you also need the broker advocate because the broker's the one that placed the coverage. They're the ones that knew what the intent was from the underwriter when the deal was being cut. Everybody has to collaborate together. 

Chris Cavallaro does it. When he does those classes, he talks more about real-life experiences being a broker. It's not so coverage centric. And those are important things as well. 

I think it's incumbent upon the management team to invest the time in the younger professionals so that they can learn the coverage, learn the broking skills [and] things along those lines.

Michelle Klein: Yeah. I also think it's incumbent upon the new employee to seek out and bring development opportunities to their manager, right? We can't do it all the time, as much as we try every day. It's kind of when you have a mentor-mentee relationship. The mentee needs to bring the agenda to the meeting. You’re happy to talk about everything [00:15:00], but it can't always be your ideas. It has to be something they want to do and grow in, in, in the business that they're in. 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. Without disclosing any names, and you know who some of my mentees have been in the past, the first meeting we have is always, "Okay. I'm the bus, you're driving it.” 

Michelle Klein: Exactly. 

Robert Crocitto: “What do you want from our relationship?” You know me. “What can I help you with? We're going to work on those things.” 

Michelle Klein: Yeah. 

Robert Crocitto: And, and- 

Michelle Klein: Whether they're your mentee or anybody you meet in this industry, you'll very much do that for them, which is iconic

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. Most of the mentees do a great job driving the bus. But there are, one or two that just kind of slacked off a little bit. They didn't get out of it what they probably could have. The mentors have busy schedules and other obligations. A lot of [them have] families and things like that. 

Yeah. So, you know, we need to be pushed a little sometimes. 

Michelle Klein: Right. I think people need to understand that we're [00:16:00] always available. Even if there's no formalized program, senior leaders in this industry are always willing to go get lunch or a coffee or meet you for breakfast and definitely give their time. You just have to seek them out and ask.

[Do] not be shy or afraid someone's going to turn you down. I would say nine and a half times out of ten, the people are always going to say, “Yes.” You just have to schedule it and be patient with that leader on getting on their calendar. 

Robert Crocitto: I just got back from a breakfast with my Bridge mentee from two years ago just to catch up and [give] some advice. So, yes, That's it still happens. 

Michelle Klein: That's so great. 

Robert Crocitto: Yep. 

Michelle Klein: Can you share a challenge or a setback or unexpected opportunity that ultimately became a defining moment in your career? What [did] you learned from that? 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. This is going back probably 15 years now.

In one week, I lost four of my five largest accounts that made up [00:17:00] 60 percent of my book of business. In one week. It wasn't something we did wrong, it just was a collaboration of retail brokers losing the business, coming up short on an RFP, or a new risk manager trying to get into a new broker's country club. Something like and I'm out. 

The first thing I did was just kind of stared into space. I went and visited Chris Cavallaro. I walked into his office, I was like, "Chris…" I reported to him. And I said, "Chris," I said, "I just lost this business." And he looked at me and he said what do you want me to do?"

He was serious. He said, "Put your head down." He said it a little differently, but we'll keep this podcast G-rated. For those who know Chris, he said, "Put your head down and get your butt to work." 

Michelle Klein: Yeah. 

Robert Crocitto: I spent the next two years reinventing my team, my book.

 At the [00:18:00] time I had Lynn Mirabella, who many know she manages my team with me. Lynn was right there with me. The two of us just dug in. Then Rob DeRico came later, and the three of us just built the team back up together as a group.

It's been a great ride since then. It took a lot of time, and, you know, you humble [yourself]. You had to think of new ways to find business. 

That episode prompted me back then to hire Rob DeRico because he was a cyber expert. I said, "Hey, cyber's coming to the forefront. Let me bring an expert into the team." [The] next thing [we know] we started writing a lot of cyber business. [Then] Lynn developed an expertise in EPL. We started writing a lot of EPL. We just did it together, and it was great.

Michelle Klein: That's great. 

Yeah, sometimes setbacks make you become a little bit more self-reflective on where you want your business and/or your career to go. Then you find the right people to help you move it forward. I think that's huge testament to you. 

Robert Crocitto: No, it's a team [00:19:00] thing,

Michelle Klein: now it is, yes.

What emerging risks, marketplace development, or industry trend are you watching most closely. Why do you think it will matter in the year ahead? 

Robert Crocitto:  I'm watching sort of the converging cyber tech, you know, kind of coming together, right? With AI liability, it's kind of all mushroom clouding together, right? You look at failure of technology services. You're looking at data breach response errors. I'm looking at AI-generated inaccuracies. 

These things have me sort of wondering what new products are going to come out that kind of address the three at once correctly, right? Who's going to have the underwriting guts to do it and see how it works? I mean, how could somebody price this right now with everything flying around the way it is? How do you model it? 

Remember, clients want [00:20:00] everything perfect. Brokers want happy clients. Underwriters want to be able to provide a product where they can make money because that's what they're in the business to do and we have to find a blend of the three to address this exposure.

I do think it's real exposure, so I'm going to be keeping an eye on that one. I think the question is, “Are one of the big companies going to step up and do this?

Is it going to be one of the underwriting platform companies, an MGA?” I'm curious to see how it comes about, but I, you know, I do see that happening. 

Michelle Klein: Yeah. That's a great way for these larger insurance companies to effectuate some change and have their underwriters start to think outside the box on the right product.

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. It's real exposure, so we’ve just got to figure out a way to underwrite it right. 

Michelle Klein: What's the biggest change you've witnessed in the professional liability insurance industry, and what's been that impact on your clients? 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. Can I make it a per- [00:21:00] can I make it an experience of mine?

Michelle Klein: Sure, you can. Yeah, absolutely. 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah, so it's like a pet peeve of mine, but the biggest change that I've seen is the way we do business, right? So again, it's all about relationships.

I have so many young people working here. They have a problem, and they'll come into me and they'll say, "Rob, I have got a problem."

And we all, "What's the issue?" Blah, blah, blah. "Did you call the underwriter?"

"Oh, no, I sent him or her an email." 

"You sent them an email? Okay. Did they read your email?" 

"They didn't get back to me yet." 

When you had a problem 35 years ago, you ran across the street, and you sat in the lobby. You met with your underwriter, and you worked it out. 

This goes out to all the young professionals out there. It's a lot easier to say no to somebody in an email than it is to look them in the eye or do it over the [00:22:00] phone. So, make it harder. You make it harder for the underwriter not to give you the answer you want.

Michelle Klein: Yeah. 

Robert Crocitto: And that's very important. 

Michelle Klein: I agree with you, and I think people read things into emails that aren't necessarily there. [They] read tone and misinterpret what you're actually trying to say. I am a huge proponent of picking up the phone. I think it goes back to--- that allows you to develop a relationship with somebody. Just emailing back and forth doesn't. 

I also agree when people come in and have a problem, they need to, one, have some kind of solution even if it's not the right solution. Two, [they need to] have gone through their own internal checklist on everything before they come and  say, "Please solve my problem for me."

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. And by the way, I never solve one of the broker's problems when they come to me. It's always, “ How would you solve it?” 

Michelle Klein: That's great. 

Robert Crocitto: And then we [00:23:00] assess their answer, because that's how you learn. 

Michelle Klein: Yep. 

Robert Crocitto: You have to promote thinking so that it promotes learning.

Michelle Klein: Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. 

You do business with a lot of different teams in this industry. What separates a good team from a great team? How do you tell leaders or up-and-coming leaders how to cultivate that great team culture within their organization or even within your own? 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah, I'd like to think that I run a really nice team. I do that because, A, and it goes back to what we said earlier, I listen. I have two administrative assistants that work for me that I've identified already as being potential brokers down the road. They work really hard, and I worked on a plan to help advance them in that [00:24:00] endeavor. 

Everybody has potential. Everybody can contribute something. I think a good leader tries to figure out how each individual on the team can contribute.

A successful team involves communication. It involves collaboration. We meet all the time, and we bounce ideas off each other. I think I'm pretty good at what I do, but I can tell you right now that when we sit in a room full of people, there are ideas that I didn't even think of that get brought to light. I'm like, "Wow, I didn't think of that." I would not have thought of that had I not got together with the team and just thought things through. I really think it's really about communication. 

It's also about making the employees on the team feel valued.  Not everybody gets the raise they want. Sometimes [when] you get a box of lemons, you’ve got to make lemonade with it, right? Not everybody gets the raise they want, but you know what? Money's always great, but sometimes it's just something as simple as, "Hey, you [00:25:00] did a great job, and I wish I could do more for you now, but I can’t. Let’s work on this and this and we'll see what the future brings." And you make people feel valued. 

When you make people feel valued, they work harder. They want to work. So you know, that’s kind of how I do things. It's been working so far.

Michelle Klein: That's great. 

So, if a young professional happens to be thinking of going into the insurance industry and happens upon this podcast and is like, "Hey, I want to listen to what those two people have to say,” what would you say to them about coming into this profession as a career? What are the great opportunities they may have?

Robert Crocitto: Yeah. I would say insurance is a great, great profession because no matter how, what, where, when, you're always going to need it. Insurance will be needed by every business out there, [00:26:00] okay? So that's the first thing. 

Now, what advice would I give the young professional? [It] would be, and I've been guilty of this when I was younger, don't worry about the people around you and what they're getting or what they're doing. Focus on yourself. Focus on your own career development. 

When I was a young professional, there was someone who I competed with that was on the team. I became obsessed with what that individual was doing, what dinner that person was invited to that I wasn't, or what golf outing they were invited to that I wasn't.

It derailed me. Stick with your own journey. Keep your head down. Just work on yourself. Make yourself better . At the end, the cream ultimately will rise to the top. 

Michelle Klein: And always raise your hand. 

Robert Crocitto: Always raise your hand. That's why I love the Bridge so much. It teaches people to raise your hand, lean in and speak up for yourself. 

Michelle Klein: [00:27:00] Yep, absolutely. I agree.

When your career's eventually viewed in hindsight, what do you hope colleagues and peers will say your lasting contribution to the industry was? 

Robert Crocitto: Yeah, so I'll break it up into a couple of different areas.

With PLUS, I love LAMP. Sure. [For] the PLUS Foundation, I would just love for the LAMP graduates to say, "Oh, I remember Rob. He met with me at the breakfast. He was super nice to talk to. He was helpful when he mentored me," [I mean] when I mentored them and stuff like that.

I would like to think within the industry that I looked out for the less fortunate or for the people that just didn't have the ability to look out for themselves. Young people that didn't speak up for themselves, I tried to keep an eye out for them. I tried to teach as best I could. 

From my clients, which is probably the most important [00:28:00] bucket of people, I would like to be remembered as a relentless advocate and servicer, if that makes sense. 

Look, I'm a bright guy. I'm not the smartest person in the world, but I'm a bright guy. I would say most of my success in my career has come from being relentless at servicing clients and listening. That's why most of my clients have been with me over 20 years.

Michelle Klein: That's a huge testament to who you are and the giving of yourself to others in this industry and to your clients.

So yeah. I mean, I've been fortunate enough to be on the receiving side, so I thank you as well.

Robert Crocitto: Ah. 

Michelle Klein: You've been great.  I have a few closing questions.

Robert Crocitto: Yeah 

Michelle Klein: yeah.. So it'll be like a little rapid fire. 

Robert Crocitto: Okay. 

Michelle Klein: What's one business book you would recommend to every leader out there to read?

Robert Crocitto: The Art [00:29:00] of War. 

Michelle Klein: And why?

Robert Crocitto: Well, I like it because it deals with kind of strategic thinking. I think to be a good leader, you have to be strategic in how you think. 

Michelle Klein: Great. What is one habit that has contributed most to your success?

Robert Crocitto: One habit. I would say being annoying. I'm annoying to clients because when you're trying to follow up for underwriting information or you're trying to follow up for answers to coverage, things like that, if I don't get my answer in like an hour, I'm calling them again and again because I want to make sure it's done. I tend to be a little annoying. You could ask about five risk managers. They'll agree on that one. 

Michelle Klein: On the flip side, every time someone calls you, you pick up the phone. If you don't pick up the phone that minute, you text them immediately. Then you return the call within a few minutes.

Robert Crocitto: Absolutely. Because if you don't answer the call--- when a broker calls looking for help on a deal, and you don't answer [00:30:00] the phone, they are going to call your competitor. My competitor will likely answer the phone, so I’ve got to answer it first. 

Michelle Klein: Yeah. I think that's great.

What is a misconception people have about the insurance industry? 

Robert Crocitto: That it's boring and it's not fun. It's fun. We play hard. We work a heck of a lot harder, but we have a good time doing it. Like you said earlier, some of my dearest friends in the world, you included, I met through insurance.

It's just been great. 

Michelle Klein: I agree. Some of the best people in my life were met in insurance, and some of my best friends were met through PLUS. Kudos to PLUS. 

If you weren't in insurance, what do you think you might have pursued, in hindsight? 

Robert Crocitto: I would've been a fishing captain. I love to go. Everyone knows I love to go fishing. I suck at golf, so I would've been a fishing captain. 

Michelle Klein: Great. If you could leave our listeners with one piece of advice about leadership, innovation, or [00:31:00] building a successful career, what would it be? 

Robert Crocitto: Listen to your clients. Listen to your employees. Be thoughtful and remember when you're in a position of leadership, people are watching you. You have to set the example if you want things done a certain way. You have to do it yourself that way.

Michelle Klein: Really well said. I just want to thank you, Rob. You are a true icon in this industry. I'm so blessed to know you and you [are] one of my really good friends. I appreciate it very much. Thank you so much to PLUS for allowing us to do this podcast. 

Robert Crocitto: Thank you, Michelle.

PLUS Staff: Thank you for listening to this PLUS Podcast. If you have ideas for a future PLUS Podcast, please complete the content idea form on the PLUS [00:32:00] website