Amy Neuzil is a naturopathic doctor, podcast host, speaker, author, MTHFR coach, and mutant-in-chief (she's compound heterozygous) at Genetic Rockstars and the MTHFR Academy - a community and learning portal just for MTHFR mutants. You can see more at tohealthwiththat.com or community.tohealthwiththat.com
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If you are looking for solutions that will allow you to break free from negative thought patterns, worrying, and the uncomfortable symptoms that are caused by anxiety check out Jennifer's website at www.jenniferbronsnick.com or join the Anxiety-Proof Her Facebook Community HERE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/anxietyproofher
Amy Neuzil is a naturopathic doctor, podcast host, speaker, author, MTHFR coach, and mutant-in-chief (she's compound heterozygous) at Genetic Rockstars and the MTHFR Academy - a community and learning portal just for MTHFR mutants. You can see more at tohealthwiththat.com or community.tohealthwiththat.com
Sign up for her newsletter here: https://www.tohealthwiththat.com/thank-you/
Here is the info to add in the comments
Thank you so much for tuning in!
If you are looking for solutions that will allow you to break free from negative thought patterns, worrying, and the uncomfortable symptoms that are caused by anxiety check out Jennifer's website at www.jenniferbronsnick.com or join the Anxiety-Proof Her Facebook Community HERE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/anxietyproofher
00:03
Welcome to the anxiety proof her podcast, where amazing women come for education, inspiration and hope around healing from anxiety. Each month, you're going to hear from other women who took control of their mental health by using outside the box holistic strategies to cope with their anxiety and to ultimately thrive. You will also learn from experts in the health and wellness industry, about the tools they use every day to help their patients or claim their well being. We hope this information allows you to see that there are many different paths to healing. I'm your host, Jennifer Bronsnick, and I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and anxiety treatment professional. I help women and teen girls who struggle with anxiety, self doubt, and perfectionism to tap into their innate resilience, get to the root of their fears, and implement custom healing strategies so that they can experience peace of mind, more self confidence and be liberated from the suffering that living with anxiety causes. I have lived with anxiety my whole life, and know how hard it can be. I also know that there is hope, and it's 100% treatable with the right information and support. Thank you so much for showing up for yourself and taking the first step to reclaiming your wellbeing and resilience.
01:36
Welcome to the anxiety prepper podcast. As always, we get started by connecting with our hearts and our spirits. So just take a moment to if you can safely close your eyes, put both your feet on the floor. And just allow your breath to become a little slower and a little deeper. And just allow yourself to settle into this moment. And setting the intention for what you hope to get out of this episode today. And that could be peace of mind, it could be additional knowledge, it could just be to feel a little bit more compassionate with yourself and your current struggle. So just allow that intention to come forward. Awesome, staying in touch with your breath, staying in touch with your heart. And knowing that you can come back into this space at any point in time during this episode, as well as throughout the rest of your day. So today on the podcast and excited to welcome and learn from Amy noozle. She is a naturopathic doctor, podcast hosts speaker, author MTHFR coach and a mutant in chief can't wait to hear more about that at genetic rockstars and the MTHFR Academy, a community and learning portal just for other MTHFR mutants. So welcome, welcome. Thank you for being with me today. I know very little about this mutation. And so I am really, really excited because I just printed your bio, like 10 minutes ago. I was like, Oh my gosh, like this is perfect. I can't wait to you know, add some more knowledge into my toolkit. So thank you. Thank you for Yeah,
04:07
well, thank you for having me. I'm thrilled to be here. I'm thrilled to be here. This is actually really exciting.
04:13
So I would love to hear how, because what I find is every interview is that there's always some sort of personal connection to it, whether it's whatever we're studying whatever our work is, especially if we're in this in the healing space, which you are. There's usually it's ourselves a family member, a child has gone through this hard time and then you've sort of had to become the expert. Would you say that that is the case in your story as well.
04:44
Oh my gosh, 20 times over? Yes.
04:48
Tell me more. I want to know Yes.
04:49
So you know, I come from a long line of very anxious humans, right. And so actually, as a kid, I never would have said I have anxiety because I was surrounded by so much anxiety that I was like the normal one, right? Like I was, I was reasonably okay. But, you know, as I've grown older, the things that I've seen popping up in myself that have made a huge difference have all been around anxiety. And so intellectually, I never really keyed in that. That was my thing. until probably actually partway through medical school, when I was like, Oh, my God, I'm an anxious person. This never occurred to me before.
05:36
What Listen, the symptom because I think that's always interesting to me is that anxiety shows up in so many different ways. Would you say that there was something that was like, this aha moment of oh, wait a second, what's going on here?
05:50
I had two actual aha moments. One was around ruminating. So I'm a ruminator. Right? Like, I will get a particular thought or thought patterns stuck in my head. And it's always the way I've been right. And it used to be like words or phrases and, and then as I sort of grew up, it was more complex ideas or something like that. But I would get stuck in this little thought. Yeah. And that was always always there in the background, right, like, so there was always a thought loop playing underneath other thoughts. And I just thought that was how brains work. Because nobody talks about how brains work. Right? Yeah. Right. So like, the inside of my head is a totally different space from the inside of other people's heads. I had no idea. Yeah. But we were talking in class one day about ruminating. And I literally had this moment of like, what, that's not a thing everybody does. So I spent like three weeks asking all of my friends like, what's it like inside your head? You know, cuz I don't get it. In there.
06:56
Did they know do they know how to answer that question?
07:00
Nobody has? Yeah, I mean, that's not a conversation anybody has. But we were all sort of health geeks and so that we can get this going. And as it turns out, like there were no two answers that were the same. And all of them had these really quirky things, you know, like, you'd spend time talking to people and you'd uncover something that was like, what really? Like, that's the thing that happens for you. Yeah, there was this huge dialogue about it. But what I learned about me was that I am a ruminator. And not everybody is right. Yeah. And also that that's a really classic sign of anxiety, right? Like that. Just getting stuck on that one. Yeah, it was around.
07:43
Was it causing you suffering, though, cuz it sounds like you sort of had accepted that this was normal. And so were you upset by it or disturbed by it in any way before you recognize that it wasn't sort of, you know, this normal 89 quotes?
08:02
I would say, at that point in my life, I wasn't because at that point in my life, I had sort of gotten to know my brain, right? Yeah. And so at that point, it was like, No, this is just the way the things my brain does. I didn't have to attach to it. But when I was a kid, you know, it could take some really unpleasant forms, like, say, I thought about two things in close proximity, right, like, so if I thought about cutting an orange and eating an orange at the same time, then that in my brain would go to like knives and lips. You know what I mean? And that's yummy. So he's
08:37
taking out a certain piece of it, that then creates this fear pattern. Exactly. And
08:42
so as a kid, that was a little bit more disturbing, because, you know, like, you can come up with some really yucky thing. Yeah. And but I mean, by the time I had reached adulthood, I was just like, oh, yeah, brain weirdness. Okay, whatever. Moving on. Yes. Yeah. But it was very interesting. So that was that was like the first one. Okay. And then the second aha was, you know, in my practice, I developed this weight loss program. Great, right. And I was doing this thing, and I had this program all planned out. And I spent literally a year designing this program, like fiddling with it and farting around and changing little details and bla bla bla bla bla, like, a year of my life with this thing. Yeah. And I launched it. And the parts that people really responded to the things they loved were the things that weren't over planned weren't over plotted the things that just happened spontaneously. And so after, after delivering that program, I actually sort of had a come to Jesus week, right? Where I had to sit down and say, What did I just do? Right like, this was a year All of that time could have been spent doing something different. Because of the outline that actually worked. I could have made in three weeks. Wow, yeah. crap that I did in that year, took up an entire year. So would you call that? Perfectionist, perfectionism,
10:20
procrastination? What would you label that or
10:24
I would label it more as perfectionism. Because, you know, like, there was a lot of work, there was a lot of effort, I could get to it and go down to it. But at the end, I could never say it was good enough. You know, and that is not a healthy place, right? That's a place that just keeps you stuck in dysfunction. But actually, that week, my week of introspection was really good for me, because at the end of it, I said, Okay, one, I am never doing that again, right? Is your time limits for things and sticking to them? Because if I paid myself my billing rate for all of the time I spent on that. It was never, it was never worth it. It was never worth like. Right, right. Yep. And the other thing was, you know, I realized how much of a barrier that was between me and the people I was trying to reach, right? The things that the energy that I was putting into this pathological kind of perfection, was actually keeping me distant from the people that I was
11:28
connecting. Okay, like you were up here, kind of in this expert place. And, you know, so it was like, different levels are
11:37
not just that it took the authenticity out of it took the nature out of it, right. And so it wasn't a human connection anymore. It was this manufactured product. That's not what I want to deliver. Right? Like, that's, that's me. Yeah.
11:52
Like the connection and the warm. Community. And yeah,
11:57
exactly. And so that was another really big aha moment at the ways that my brain generates this pressure and the stress about things that aren't real. Right. And that's, that's exactly anxiety, right? Like, it's this stress about problems created by my own brain.
12:16
Yeah. Yeah. So I just want to pause and just say, you know, what I noticed in both of those, is this, your ability to be self aware? And to sort of recognize and have these, this sort of watching of, oh, look at what just happened? What, you know, how do I learn from that? So it was this sort of stepping into, oh, this is something that maybe is creating more stress in my life that I need to look at. And then I also love that you were really intentional, because most people don't take the time to reflect on why did that work? Why didn't that work? And you really sat down, and were able to be brutally honest, where, you know, it was that, that perfectionism and that fear of not being enough or fear of not knowing enough, or whatever it was, that really held you back from having this this program that you know, I'm sure is amazing.
13:25
You know, I actually never launched the program. I was like, oh, okay, I got what I was supposed to get out of it. Oh,
13:31
my. Goodness. So tell me more about your own. And maybe this ties into the MTHFR, which I'd love for you to explain a little bit deeper. But is there some sort of connection between that between the rumination between the anxiety symptoms that you were popping up for you?
13:57
Yes, a one. Okay. So MTHFR was not something that I learned about in school, it was not, you know, I mean, it's just, it's a, it's a kind of an oddball, right? But as it turns out, it there it's estimated that 40% of the US population actually has some degree of compromise in this gene, right. So, one bad copy out of four that are really meaningful, okay. And so this gene, it's called foun, methylene, tetrahydrofolate reductase, which is a mouthful, nobody needs to wait anytime you do need to remember is that it has to do with folate metabolism, right? And so folate is a vitamin, it's essential for all of us. It's a key nutrient in, you know, cell division in neurotransmitter formation. That's where the anxiety link comes in. hormone levels, infertility, in cardiac disease, all of these things,
14:59
for sure. Why they give like folic acid? That's the thing.
15:03
Exactly. And so when you have some kind of a compromise in actually converting folate into its active form, which is what this gene does it, it helps it kills the enzyme that converts fully into active folate. And so when you have some compromise here, basically that active fully isn't happening. And we've actually made it worse for ourselves. Because folic acid directly blocks the activity of this gene. Which is, yeah, it's sort of scary, right? Like, yeah, like,
15:34
and that's what everyone is, you know, take this for your baby, or while you're pregnant, higher,
15:41
standard. And even in depression and anxiety treatment, folic acid is very often recommended, because there's a ton of research that shows that low folate status is linked to worse outcomes with depression and anxiety. And so and so very often doctors recommend folate, or folic acid as part of their treatment, and the most common form and the cheapest form is folic acid. So that's what everybody gets. Yeah, but with an MTHFR issue, that's actually going to make the problem worse. And so, you know, that's, that's really what I'm trying to do with the community and trying to do with the podcast is raise awareness around this issue because people just don't know right, and, and food is enriched with folic acid, right? So our like breads, pastas, everything is enriched flour, enriched with folic acid, which blows up this process even more. Where is
16:37
folate found normal? Is it fruits and vegetables where what are actual whole food sources?
16:45
So beans and pulses are the best sources like lentils are amazing chicory, black beans, anything like that. Green leafy are a good source. Okay, so, you know, like, there's lots of round in food sources of avocados. Thank God for that.
17:02
Yeah. All right now, if you have a mute, if you have the mutation does are used to if you're eating those foods, you're an amazing healthy eater. Are you still not getting the folate? Because you have that mutation?
17:21
Not Not necessarily. So it is possible for MTHFR mutants to get enough natural folate from their diet, but they have to get the folic acid out because the folic acid blocks up the works, right? And so that's a huge shift for people. That's a real big change for people. And then also some with more severe neurotransmitter dysfunction or fertility issues or cardiac issues, then they may want to also supplement the active form of folate which is five l methyl tetrahydrofolate. So five LMT HF. Okay.
18:01
And how would someone find out whether they have this mutation?
18:08
Yeah, I mean, that's a really good question. Some of it can be presumptive. So you don't necessarily have to have the mutation to benefit from making these changes. Because methylation dysfunction can happen even just because of folic acid and without the mutation. Right? So if somebody is folic acid toxic, then they can see some of these same patterns, the same neurotransmitter dysfunctions without for having an ETA, can
18:37
you list some of those symptoms that someone might see?
18:41
Yeah, absolutely. So unfortunately, a lot of the big ones are very general, right, like fatigue, and weight and muscle pain, a lot of the chronic fatigue type symptoms, but then also anxiety, depression, panic attacks, any kind of, well, unfortunately, it can lead to stronger pathology. So like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. There's a link there, a lot of kids on the autistic spectrum have really big methylation issues. And you know, we're seeing a lot of just a variety of neurological changes, right. Also things like cognitive decline, like Alzheimer's has been really strongly linked with methylation dysfunction and methylation pathology, also with deficiencies of active folate. So, you know, like any of these big, big mental health challenges, I would say, it's worth a try, right?
19:36
We're trying to figure it out. Yeah. So what is because I imagine that's a hard pill to swallow not actual pill of, okay, you can't have anything that is like enrich so bread since you know, anything made in America.
19:57
Good. Yeah. Right. And well We even we just started fortifying corn products as well, because there was concerned that the Mexican American community wasn't being reached. Right. Oh, my gosh, yeah.
20:13
And so I gave up all those things. And I felt a million times better. So I'm wondering like, it might have actually been
20:22
good. It could certainly be yes. I mean, it could also be food sensitivities. That's a
20:28
Yeah. But it doesn't matter. Because as long as once you start feeling better, and you see that it's working, so how long between when you would start working with someone in this health journey? Well, how soon would someone see a benefit?
20:46
You know, I always have my clients track their symptoms, they get so tired. I mean, everybody gets tired of hearing about it. Yeah, guys. Yeah. But it helps, right? Like, this is good data awareness. Yeah. Yeah. Even just taking folic acid out of their diets without making any other changes is helpful for I'd say, 50% of people, right, like, wow. And that's huge, right? Like, that's a really large percentage, right? Like a lot of yen supplement or pill or medication.
21:14
Every multivitamin has folic acid. Yeah. And
21:19
that's the other thing, they've got to go through their medicine cabinet. There's supplements, the, like, protein shakes, and the meal replacements and the bars and the blood, blah, blah, blah, there's so many things. But it makes a huge difference, you know, like, it's a really big deal. So, you know, and if people can't commit to getting the full eight out of their food, then we try to limit it as much as we can. And get it out of their supplements. For sure. Right, like, just did ditch the multivitamins with folic acid that's, um, watch birth control pills. Sometimes they have folic acid, things like that. So get those out of the diet. Add in a good multivitamin with a five l methyl tetrahydrofolate, right with the active form. And then maybe we can compensate for a little bit of folic acid in the diet. If we run into a wall down the road, right, where we're just not making progress. We're not getting any better. Okay, then we'll revisit, right, we'll revisit that little Yeah. Awesome. Because too much,
22:19
but hard to make lifestyle changes. It's really, really challenging.
22:27
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, I get that right. And it's, I can talk all day about how much has changed my life. But I mean, yeah.
22:36
Well, how has it changed your life? Because maybe that I think sometimes hearing that, yes, it was really hard. And it really transformed how I was showing up in the world can be helpful in taking that first step.
22:51
It very much has. So I've been, I've been kind of on this MTHFR journey for about 12, maybe 15 years now. But the things that I noticed first was the rumination that I talked about, that's gone. I don't have that now. And I thought that was just a part of my brain, right? Like I didn't. And it wasn't like, I wasn't trying to work on this. I wasn't targeting it. It just went away, which is horrible. Right? Like, magic. Yeah, this was a pathological thing that was happening my entire life, and it just vanished. That's weird. Wow. Um, yeah. And, but outside of that, you know, I found it so much easier, like, a lot of the tension and stress that I held constantly, without even knowing it dropped away, right. So I started to notice how much easier it was to show up for things right, socially, professionally, things like that, because I hadn't really understood how much I think the perfectionism specifically got in the way, right? Like, if I couldn't show up in exactly the way that I wanted to, then I just didn't show up. Right? That's not right. Right. Like, that just limits your life. And and now it's so much easier to be like, okay, you know, what, sorry, my hair looks crazy. And I'm here and here it is, right? Like, this is me.
24:16
Increased self compassion,
24:19
a lot more self compassion, and a lot more self acceptance, I would say, you know, and the thing that also evolved during this journey was that I realized that I'm what's called a highly sensitive person. And so, you know, this is a this is a thing sort of been talked about maybe for the last decade, but they're finding that some people just neurologically respond more to things like lights and noises and emotional stimulus from other people. And so, right, yeah. So, highly sensitive people or empaths, or whatever you want to call it, you know, we just really are a little bit more vulnerable to the world a little bit more open. And I found as part of this process that I've been able to accept that about myself, you know, and not look at it as a weakness, but rather just as a part of me, right, like, yeah, damn more sensitive, right? Like, yeah, I know not gonna do well at the, you know, the business building meeting where we're supposed to shake hands with 50 people in 20 minutes. And yeah,
25:25
don't do that anymore.
25:27
I hope not. Those were awful. Do you remember those? Oh, no. But yeah, like, you know, there was a time when I would push myself into situations like that, and then pay for it for the next three days, like, examination. Yeah. Now, and now I'm like, yeah, no, I'm gonna skip that one, huh?
25:46
Yeah. But just knowing it, knowing yourself, knowing what feels good for your body. And again, coming back, like honing into that self awareness of what I have this? How do I feel? When I don't have this? How do I feel? And I find it, it usually takes me about a week of really radical shifting in my diet to start noticing it. And it's it's never this moment. It's like I wake up one day, just like you said, it's like, magic. Wait, I haven't. My heart hasn't fluttered. I, you know, my heart isn't racing, I haven't had, you know, a negative thoughts spiral or, you know, a mood swing. It's like, Wait, oh, wow. That's the reason. But it does be takes time. And so I love that you are out in the world. And there are many other, you know, helpers and healers that, you know, guide us along our path, because I really don't think we can do it alone. You know, we all I need help. You need help. We all need someone to guide us when we're going through a challenging time. So is there a message of hope that if someone's listening, maybe they're having the rumination? Maybe they're having other symptoms of anxiety? What do you want them to know?
27:11
You know, I think my biggest takeaway from this was that answers aren't always in the places you're expecting, right? And everything you do that makes your health better, makes all of you better, right. Like when I when I started doing this diet changes in the folate thing. I wasn't actually thinking about my anxiety at all. Right? I was doing it for other reasons. It wasn't, you know, it was entirely unrelated. But that was the thing for me that really started to unravel that thread. And so, you know, just keep, keep taking small steps forward every day, to make you as a whole person, stronger, better health. And whatever it is, your answer will come.
27:58
And let that so where can people find you? If they're curious if they're wondering, why do I have this? How do I get support? Maybe they know they have it, but they don't know what they're doing around? You know how to avoid folic acid. I've no idea I have to research, but you can save some time. So please share, if you have a website, anything that that our listeners can access.
28:27
Yeah, my website is to help with that.com. So T O Hga. LDH wi th th 80. There's a lot of THC is in there to help with that calm, and I have a podcast of the same name.
28:43
Awesome. Thank you so much for joining us. I'm so appreciate your time. And this is really helpful and interesting. And I definitely am going to dig deeper into this because now, yeah, thank you so much for having me. It's great. Thanks for listening. Everyone. Have a great day. Thank you so much for taking the time to invest in your well being. I hope you learned at least one new idea or technique that you might want to implement into your own life. Remember, you're not alone. There is hope and with the right information and support you can thrive. If you're dealing with panic are looking for a step by step process that will allow you to break free from this crippling fear state. I want to invite you to check out my panic attack Survival Guide. You can grab your free copy at WWW dot Jennifer bronsnick.com Thanks for listening