Anxiety-Proof Her Interview with Nina Manolson

Nina Manolson M.A. NBC-HWC is a Body-Peace® coach. She helps women end the war with food and body and finally feel truly at home in their body – as it is. She brings her 30 years of experience as a therapist, Body-Trust ® Guide, and Psychology of Eating Teacher to help women create a positive relationship with their food and body.

Nina’s work and body poems – are all in service of helping women get off the diet roller-coaster and into a compassionate and powerful way of eating & living which creates deep, long-lasting change in and with their bodies. Learn more at: NinaManolson.com

https://www.facebook.com/NinaManolsonBodyPeace

https://www.instagram.com/ninamanolson/

https://www.youtube.com/user/ninamanolson
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If you are looking for solutions that will allow you to break free from negative thought patterns, worrying, and the uncomfortable symptoms that are caused by anxiety check out Jennifer's website at www.jenniferbronsnick.com or join the Anxiety-Proof Her Facebook Community HERE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/anxietyproofher

Transcript

00:03

Welcome to the anxiety proof her podcast, where amazing women come for education, inspiration and hope around healing from anxiety. Each month, you're going to hear from other women who took control of their mental health by using outside the box holistic strategies to cope with their anxiety and to ultimately thrive. You will also learn from experts in the health and wellness industry, about the tools they use every day to help their patients or claim their well being. We hope this information allows you to see that there are many different paths to healing. I'm your host, Jennifer Bronsnick, and I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and anxiety treatment professional. I help women and teen girls who struggle with anxiety, self doubt, and perfectionism to tap into their innate resilience, get to the root of their fears, and implement custom healing strategies so that they can experience peace of mind, more self confidence and be liberated from the suffering that living with anxiety causes. I have lived with anxiety my whole life, and know how hard it can be. I also know that there is hope, and it's 100% treatable with the right information and support. Thank you so much for showing up for yourself and taking the first step to reclaiming your wellbeing and resilience.

01:36

Welcome to the anxiety prove her podcast as always, we begin by coming home to ourselves. So take a moment and just bring your attention to the area of your heart or your chest area. And begin to breathe a little slower, a little deeper. Just allowing your breath to breathe in the way that it desires to breathe. Gently notice if you're holding any tension in your body, or experiencing any discomfort or tightness in any part of your body. And you can begin to direct your breath to open up those spaces that need a little extra healing right now. If you're not noticing anything, just bring that healing right back to your heart. It's almost the holidays. I think a lot of us just need a little bit more healing in our hearts right now. So just set that intention that in this moment. My heart is healing and it will continue to heal as you listen to this podcast. And as you go through your day taking one more deep breath and trusting that you are going to receive exactly what you need to receive as you listen to this interview. Ah, so I am so excited because my guest today I've actually been following her for probably almost 10 years we were both students at Institute for Integrative Nutrition. She graduated before me but I was always like, Oh my gosh, man, this woman is amazing. I love what she talks about. Body empowerment, strong women, and just magically, we connected on Instagram. And so Anita Mandelson ma NBC H WC, we'll hear more about those credentials, is a body piece coach. She helps women and the world with food and body and finally truly feel home in their body as it is. She brings her 30 years of experience as a therapist, a Body Trust guide and psychology of eating teacher to help women create a positive relationship with their food and body need his work and body poems are all in the service of helping women get off the diet roller coaster and into a compassionate and powerful way of eating and living, which creates deep, long lasting change in and with their bodies. And I'm going to just chuck the website out now but will Bring it back at the end. It's Nina mantle said Ma N. O L S o n.com. So welcome. Thank you, thank you for coming on the show.

05:13

For it's totally my privilege and honor and delight to be with you because I am. I feel like this conversation about anxiety runs through all the work that I do with my clients. With every individual client, every group, there, it's it's woven into the fabric of our culture, that feeling of anxiety. And so what you're doing, like, how do we deal with it? How do we anxiety professors is so important, because it's just it is we don't live in an easy culture. And it's gotten harder. So how do we be with this so important?

05:54

Yeah. So how did you get into this, though? Was there do you have your own healing journey that you had to go through in order to say, oh, my gosh, now I see, you know, where that pain was coming from? I have to help others.

06:15

Yeah, absolutely. So my body and my body image, and what I ate became the target for all discomfort in my world. Right. So like many people, my family was not a, you know, walk in the park on the beach, you know, it was no walk in the park. It was challenging. And there was a lot of feelings. But there was no space, there was no room for those feelings. There was no literally words for feelings. And so what did I do? I was like, oh, gosh, I feel something, let me bury that. And so I became someone who coped with life with food. So some might call it compulsive overeating, binge eating, there's lots of labels for it. But really, I was doing the best I could survive by using full food as the tool to turn the volume down on the anxiety to turn the volume down on the nervous system activation that was happening every day from home from school from life. Right. And that made me feel completely uncomfortable in my body. I grew up in Montreal, and I often say there's a saying that I heard there, Jim Assam, BM dama literally means I feel good in my skin means like, I feel good in my body. And I was like, I have no clue what the heck they're talking about. I was like, I don't even know what that means. Because I didn't feel that way. And so what started as a personal journey of how do I feel okay, being in this body became a professional journey, right? I started 30 years ago as a body worker doing massage therapy with women. And that's what got me into going back to grad school and becoming a therapist because I had my hands on people. And all day I was hearing body stories. Right? Our body is the book of our life. Right? We walk through life, and it's written into our body. Right? Our primary relationship is our body. So I would hear all these feelings, beliefs, history, traumas. And I was like, I need a little more tools. I became a therapist and then still trying to heal my own food and body stuff, went to I n, okay, studied nutrition, then started to weave those together psychology of eating Body Trust work. And that's what created this body of work that I do now, which is body peace, which is a combination of how do we be in our body and support her in a daily basis? How do we be in our body? And listen to the feelings and the emotions? And how do we be in our body and really be an ally for her in a culture that has a $72 billion diet industry that is forever telling us that there's something wrong with our body? Yeah. It's

09:27

so many women, including myself relate to the story where because you have to eat and you learn really quickly, you know, just from being a mother and seeing my babies like a full belly makes us feel loved. You know, it gives us that feeling, especially when it's you know, this sugary milk in our bellies and this connection, this holding this oxytocin that experience so, it makes total sense that we would equate full belly food into sugar. You know, all these things with this like feeling of wholeness of love? Because no one there's no role model, right? Like most of us don't have moms that understood and like, it's not their fault, obviously, you know, they were doing their best, but you know, we don't we don't have, you know, like you the role model to guide in our daily lives typically. And so, you know, we were talking before we hit record how often it's that we, we feel this thing in our body, it's like, Ooh, okay, I don't like that. Let me let me eat a little something. And we eat a little something. And then it's like, oh, wait, that's not good, either. So what do I do now? Like, What feeling do I bring up now? And so it's this, like ping pong game of trying to get to? I don't even know, where are we trying to get Nina?

11:02

Right. So But you said it perfectly, right? We're trying to get to that place of it's okay. Right? When you talked about, like, mother's milk or formula that like, it's food is connection. Food is I'm safe, right? So life happens up, it comes in bubbles. And it's taking us on this wave, the feels a little like ladder where this is going, this could be a tsunami. This is this is really uncomfortable. Let me get off. And so we go, we get off the wave. And one of the ways to get off is let me eat something because that is a great volume control for the wave, oh, if I eat something, I will turn down the volume of this activation, have this feeling the feels unfamiliar that I really don't know where it's going, and I'm not sure I can handle it. So even though I may be going to a maybe going to this feeling that I hope, which is oh, all as well in the world, I'm good. But often there's some disordered eating, there's some unwanted eating behavior in there. Right? I started this package of cookies because I thought it made me feel better. But then I couldn't stop and I ate the whole thing, then I feel bad about myself, then I feel guilty, then oh my gosh, I better start another diet, right? We're on this whole diet cycle. But that initial intention of that cookie, that bag of cookies was let me survive. Let me turn the volume down. And even though it's painful, where we are that feeling of, I'm too full, oh my gosh, I failed again. I tried to start a diet yesterday, and I can't do it. Even though that all feels really crummy. It feels familiar. Right? This is really important. We go to a bad feeling. Even though we may know Oh, I really shouldn't do this. I know I'm gonna feel like crap afterwards. But at least I know what that is versus this other experiences happening in life. Right? I went somewhere I met somebody new, it felt a little confrontational. I had to say what I had to speak up for my needs, oh, my gosh, this is uncomfortable. And I don't I'm not as well versed. Whereas I'm very well versed and feeling bad about myself and beating myself up. And then feeling like maybe I should go on another diet. I know. It's just what I call body management. I know how to do body management. Right? Versus this is this is right in the wheelhouse of, versus I know how to navigate difficult feelings, uncomfortable feelings, right feelings where my voice won't maybe it won't be heard in this world, or situations where I might have tried before to be heard or seen. But I wasn't heard or seen. So I believe there's actually not a listening for me, doesn't matter what I think or feel or see or say, because nobody's gonna really hear me. So let me just bury that in food and go into that familiar body management mode. And it's painful. And then what happens, which is like the worst part is that we judge ourselves, I can't believe I did that again. And the blame and the shame gets heaped on to this familiar ball of one of my clients calls it the barrel, the shame barrel. Yeah, we get sucked into the shame barrel and it's hard to get out. Right. And I have a client of mine once said, she said when we're talking about how do you get out of there, how do you move yourself towards really being an ally for yourself really being on the side of your body, really listening to your hunger and fullness? She's like, we're starting to really get into it. And she said, Wow, I feel like I totally missed this day at school. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. You never got this date. school, we were never, ever taught this, because what we were taught is continue to manage your body. Because what it does is reduce our power as women. Here, you stay obsessed about your body and your weight and your calories. But then we don't have to deal with your power and your voice in the world. So really stepping into this work of body peace, body liberation, is the feminist approach. And it's a very strong approach for us to take to say, Yes, I am powerful, I can have an impact on my own life and the world. Yeah. It's so

15:40

hard because there is this such positive feedback loop. Like when you lose weight, let's say that you're going through this incredibly stressful time. So you lose 10 pounds, and you're not really happy. There wasn't really this goal. But then everyone, there's this feedback. Oh, my gosh, like,

16:02

what do you do you look so

16:05

like, there's this idea that, Oh, you lost weight, you must be healthier, or you must be doing something right. So like, what? What is it? Let me let me in on this. You know, it's this deep seated, you know, sickness really, that it is all carry?

16:23

Yes, it's really. So two things. One, let me just do a simple PSA, stop commenting on people's body.

16:33

Thank you right away,

16:34

it doesn't matter. If you think you're saying something nice or kind. Stop, you have no idea what has caused this fluctuation in their body size. And it's actually none of your business. Right? So just stop as a simple rule, don't comment, comment on anything else, right. But don't comment on people's body size, it's not helpful. It just isn't. Because even if someone is trying, they've been trying so hard, they want to lose weight, and they lost weight. And they're going around, like, look how much weight I lost. And you go, Oh, my gosh, you look fantastic. When they get out of that cycle, because when you see someone who's lost weight, they're actually just in the middle of weight cycling, right 95% of diets, people gain their way back, if not more in two to five years. So most people who you see losing weight will gain weight, if not more, right. So what you're seeing when someone says I lost weight is a moment in their weight cycling. So then when they come back to you in a larger body, they're going to be like, Oh, my God, They complimented me on my small body, I should feel shame that I now am living in a bigger body. Right? So there's really no good moment to talk about to comment on people's bodies. Now, the reason this is goes deeper, the reason we all comment on people's bodies, is because our culture has taught us thin privilege, then privileges this idea that you have more power, you have more clout, you have more social agency, you have more ability to get on a plane and be comfortable or walk into any store and buy clothes, that somehow being thin is better. That's size ism. That's fat phobia. That's wait stigma, right? That's an ism that we still have yet to wrap our minds around and heal in our culture. So to really pull ourselves back from colluding with this idea that somehow we're a better human if we're in a smaller body. Like when you really think about that, like, that's just not true.

18:40

Yeah. So how do you get to that place? Where, and this could probably be like a 12 week? Answer. Where you look in the mirror, just like, and no matter what your size, what the number, any of that where you're just say, like, wow, like, Thank you, you know, where there isn't this like, Oh, your bellies looking you know, flabby today, or, you know, any of the number of things that we all say to ourselves.

19:16

Yeah, so first thing, it's a process. And it's really important to name that it's a process and it's a practice body piece is a process and a practice. Because we've been trained for the Quickstart we've been trained for the seven pounds in seven days, we've been trained for the instant switch. The reality is we have been practicing body heat and Mind Body management for decades. It is a well worn practice. It takes time and patience, and practice, to practice speaking differently to our body to engaging in a different relationship. Right. Let's think about it this way. If you have a relationship with a significant other, we're talking As a kid, we're talking a spouse, we're talking a sibling, a parent, and you're like, you know what, I really want this to work, and I'm going to work at it, we don't flip a switch. And suddenly the dynamic changes, we practice saying different things, we create new dialogues. So the experience of coming into body peace is one of changing how we talk about it to talk to ourselves. It's one of shifting our understanding of how the culture impacts us. It's one of being able to listen to our body to be embodied. Right? It's one of really befriending ourselves. And making space for the grief, the trauma, all the reasons that our body has become the enemy, and food has become something we fear. So it's, it's a process, and it's practice. So

21:09

I'm just guessing that you don't believe in diets. So how would you guide someone in recognizing what way of eating because I personally for me, as someone, I struggle with anxiety, I've had panic attacks, I've realized that if I have sugar, that I get anxious, I don't feel good. However, I also recognize as someone that's had an eating disorder in the past, that I also have the capacity to be extremely controlling around the things I put in my mouth. And so, you know, is there foods you should avoid? Or is it you know, listen, is it intuitively guided? You know, how would you guide someone? Or they guide themselves? I guess.

22:08

So I'm a real believer in support. In all the areas that I've struggled with my life, I always get support, because we're just not supportive enough. We're so like, you know, especially smart women, they're like, Okay, I can do it myself. And then women come to me, and they're like, I'm so capable in all these areas. Why can't I get this food and body thing going, like, stop trying to do it yourself? Right? We're like, I have the information from the blogs, and the diet books and the lalala. And why can't I make it go? This is not a solo sport, healing our relationship with our body, and really, with the culture. And what it said to us about our bodies, is not something to do alone. It's really the place that I have found. You know, as a therapist, I work with people individually. And I still do. But more and more I work with groups of women, because that's where the healing happens. When we're with it is because we need to heal, we need to first of all start to make it a cultural conversation. It's not just my problem, right? Being trained as a therapist, I was like, It's all an intra personal, it's like me and me. But the more that I've really sunk into this work of body piece, it's yes, your relationship with your body, yes, your relationship with your family of origin, but also your relationship with a culture. So we need to hear other women's stories, we need to hear that we're not alone. And we need to hear the voice of other women's compassion. Right. So there was a group that I was guiding, and somebody said, you know, Nina, I've heard you say this a million times. But when she this other woman said, I've looked in the mirror, and for the first time I said, we're on the same side. She said, Oh my gosh, I realized that could be me too. I could say that to myself. And also women are so good at supporting others, that in the sacred space of a group, we start to hear the words we say to other people, and we start to internalize them. So healing happens in groups, is my experience. Yes, there's space. Often I do groups and individual because that we need to have room to do our own deep work around it and look at our own history. But that's one place the other place around specifically to respond to what you're saying about like, what do I do about food? Are there foods that I shouldn't eat? Are there foods that I should eat? Right? When we're talking about body peace and trusting our body and body body liberation, we don't toss nutrition out. But nutrition is completely subjective, right? What works for your body may not work for my body. So a big part of this work is what's the Jennifer plan? What's the Nina plan? Okay, right instead of like, oh, let me get the Dr. Sears plan. Let me do that. Let me do the Keto plan. Let me do that. Like that's somebody else's plan and most often a guy. Yeah. Yeah. Right, who didn't grow up with eating issues, and disordered eating past a mother that criticize their body? None of that. Right? So to say, Wait, that's somebody else's plan? How do I create my knowing for what works well? And that is a place to start. What? What actually works for me, what do I know most of the women I talked to? are over 35. Right, right. They lived in their body for a decade or two. We know something. That's one of the things that irks me so much about diet culture, they're like, You don't know anything about yourself. I'm like, I've lived here. This is my home for many decades. Yeah, I actually know something about what works and what doesn't. Yeah. Right. So to say we should to the noise of everybody else telling you how to do being in your body. And then turning up the volume of what do I know? What do I deeply know, works for my body? And then how do I move myself towards that? Yeah. And so rebelling from it all the time? Is there. Like if there was one

26:31

of your tools or specific practice that you find is helpful? Cuz I know, it's pretty unique. But is there one thing that you tend to just teach everybody?

26:43

Yeah. So the core thing, like, honestly, if there's nothing else you take from this conversation, it's that we're having a relationship with our own body. And it's our relationship. It's not the diet cultures relationship with our body. It's not our mother's relationship with our body. Right? It's not our spouses relationship, or partners relationship with our body. It's our own relationship with our body. And one practice that can turn you towards that is literally simple word of Hello. Turning towards your body, maybe a hand on your heart, maybe closing your eyes, and saying, Oh, hello, body. It starts the conversation. How do we start any relationship? Hello. Hi, Jennifer. Nice to see you. Nice to meet you. Right. Hello, body. Oh, we're in this together? We are not having brain. Wait, what? Yes, I'm not just a brain, right? A lot of the work of body pieces, how do I come into my body? How do I embody and start listening and honoring and respecting what my body is saying?

27:53

So basically, it's not even about the food. It's really the bottom line. It I think everybody wants to know, like, tell me the other one.

28:03

I know. So it's not the food isn't important. It's just the food comes after. Because our body will say what she wants and what nourishes us. But if we start with the food first, it's the what is that? The horse before the cart, the cart before the horse, whichever way that saying goes, I get kind of asked backwards basically, yeah, when we start with controlling our food or going the wrong way, because what we're creating with this relationship, right is basically an abusive relationship where we're creating a controlling, not listening, not respectful relationship. When we work on the relationship with our body, then we can listen and then we move into gentle nutrition. Not forced nutrition, but wise nutrition that comes from our own experience. Right. I like nutritionally, the world says, broccoli is a great thing, right? So if I was in the world of you know, people would say yeah, broccoli is awesome. My body broccoli goes, Are you kidding me? I can't digest that at all. I'm have cramps, unhappy? No way. Right. So it doesn't matter what the culture says about certain foods. Right? Yeah, some people are like, Oh my god, butter is the devil for me. Oh my gosh, butter, like all all as well in the world. It's totally different for different people. Yeah. And we have to find each person's nutritional path. But that comes after creating a actual authentic, caring, connected relationship with our own body.

29:50

And I imagine I just know for myself, my nutrition needs have changed throughout my whole entire life, you know, from having babies and not you know, and then nursing and then not having babies and then being, you know, pre menopause and there so it's not this like one and done, oh, here's your diet manual that you will not follow for the rest of your life. It's that, you know, it sounds like what you're teaching is this awareness of okay. Yes, from my body or no from my body and really tuning into noticing the result specific foods or maybe in how we eat them.

30:37

Absolutely. And what you're saying is so important. i There's a term I coined and I use, which is being body current. What is this body need? Right? Because the body we had last year is not this body. Right? The body that we had pre COVID had different needs than the body we have, you know, in the middle, or wherever we are in this COVID process, right? The body we had in college had different needs than the body we have when we're done having kids or when you're trying to have kids or when you're pregnant, or when you're pre menopausal. postmenopausal, right, these are all different bodies. So to be in our current body is a very powerful place to ground ourselves. And it does, as you said, require different nutritional needs. Right? My mom is 90 this week. And yeah, and her nutritional needs are really different. I grew up with her. I knew exactly what she ate, right? Yeah. As a daughter, we know exactly what our mothers are eating, right? So I watched and now I'm like, Mom, do you? Do you need more food? Like, I don't need a lot anymore. I just, there's not a lot to fuel. There's like, and I'm like, okay, and then I tried to a friend of mine. I'm like, She's not eating enough. And they were like, This is a different stage. Like even me who's like body current body current. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, she's not eating enough. Right? She's 90 changes again.

32:12

Yeah. Yeah. So for the women listening, that are in the depths of this those looking in the mirror and judging? What message of hope? Would you want them to know?

32:35

Yeah. So the thing that I'm most want women to know is that the relationship that you have with your body can change. Right, you can absolutely have a relationship based on respect, based on trust, based on deep caring, a relationship that feels like body peace, that that's actually possible. We learned the relationship we have with our body, we can unlearn that, and relearn another relationship. It is possible, you're allowed. In fact, it's your birthright to feel at home in your own body. It's not going to feel peaches and cream all the time. I'm not saying and then we wave the magic wand. And every moment is lalalala. Fabulous. No, be boring, right? We're weak, but we can be in a caring relationship, where we truly feel like we're on our own side, we're an ally, we're at peace with ourselves.

33:44

Yeah. And then I just imagine that that impacts every relationship in your life, the more 100% you are in yourself, and then that's what you expect from your partner. That's what you expect from your children. So it's sort of you know, once you can do that with yourself, that allows you to raise your standards for what we will accept from other people, as well.

34:09

100% when we feel like we have a caring relationship with our body, how we are in the world changes when we feel at home in our skin, how we walk into a room is different, how much we use our voice is different, how much room space we take up how much agency we feel like we have is completely different because we're not diminishing ourselves. We're not shaming ourselves. We're not hiding ourselves. We're embodying and we're being powerful in the world.

34:44

That Well, thank you. Thank you so much for your work. You're studying your care your message, so tell people how they can work with you and find you.

34:58

Yeah, so the easiest, first of all, I want to say Jennifer totally an honor really a delight to be with you. And the easiest place for people to find me is my website, which is Nina Mandelson Calm. And a wonderful way to start the work is I have an incredible group of women called the body peace seekers. And we meet three times a month we really dive into how do you create this relationship with your body? How do you step into a sense of embodiment? And how do you develop that self-compassion? Those are the core foundational pieces to body peace.

35:41

Thank you. Please go and visit he does website and I hope you all have a beautiful day. Take care. Until

35:48

next time.

35:50

Thank you so much for taking the time to invest in your well-being. I hope you learned at least one new idea or technique that you might want to implement into your own life. Remember, you're not alone. There is hope and with the right information and support, you can thrive. If you're dealing with panic are looking for a step-by-step process that will allow you to break free from this crippling fear state. I want to invite you to check out my panic attack survival guide, you can grab your free copy at WWW dot Jennifer bronsnick.com Thanks for listening