Anxiety-Proof Her Interview with Nicole Kelman

Nicole Kelman served as a Director of Undergraduate Admissions for ten years at many top selective universities including Muhlenberg College, Stony Brook University, Brandeis University, and Bentley University. She holds a Master of Science in Higher Education Administration and is a member of the Independent Educational Consultants Association (IECA).
Leading admissions committees has given her much insight into the decision-making process of several admissions offices. She is experienced in working with a variety of students from academically gifted, students with learning support needs, and student-athlete recruits. She has also been the Director of Admissions at a private high school in New England. Nicole has a passion for counseling families through course selection, school decisions, and the college process while sharing her expert knowledge on how students are evaluated. Nicole will make the education decision process fun and worry-free for your family.

Learn more at www.needucationconsultants.com or on Instagram and Facebook @needucationconsultants
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Thank you so much for tuning in!

If you are looking for solutions that will allow you to break free from negative thought patterns, worrying, and the uncomfortable symptoms that are caused by anxiety check out Jennifer's website at www.jenniferbronsnick.com or join the Anxiety-Proof Her Facebook Community HERE: https://www.facebook.com/groups/anxietyproofher

Transcript

00:03

Welcome to the anxiety-proof her podcast, where amazing women come for education, inspiration and hope around healing from anxiety. Each month, you're going to hear from other women who took control of their mental health by using outside-the-box holistic strategies to cope with their anxiety and to ultimately thrive. You will also learn from experts in the health and wellness industry, about the tools they use every day to help their patients or claim their well being. We hope this information allows you to see that there are many different paths to healing. I'm your host, Jennifer Bronsnick, and I'm a licensed clinical social worker, and anxiety treatment professional. I help women and teen girls who struggle with anxiety, self doubt, and perfectionism to tap into their innate resilience, get to the root of their fears, and implement custom healing strategies so that they can experience peace of mind, more self confidence and be liberated from the suffering that living with anxiety causes. I have lived with anxiety my whole life, and know how hard it can be. I also know that there is hope, and it's 100% treatable with the right information and support. Thank you so much for showing up for yourself and taking the first step to reclaiming your wellbeing and resilience. Welcome

01:33

to the anxiety prepare podcast as always, we start by centering within ourselves. So take a moment just put both feet on the floor and bring your full attention to the weight of your feet. And allow the feeling of gratitude to come over your body that you are being held right now. The earth is holding you the chair is holding you and that in this moment as you listen to this interview, you can relax you can settle in. If your mind starts to wander, just bring your attention back to the area of your feet being held by the floor.

02:29

And just allowing that presence within your body and setting the intention that you will receive exactly what you need to receive during this time during this interview of this podcast.

02:50

And that you can connect to the ground to your heart whenever you need it today.

03:05

So today,

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I'm really excited to welcome Nikki Kalman. She has served on the as a director of undergraduate admissions for 10 years at many top selective universities including Muhlenberg Stony Brook Brandeis Bentley University, she holds holds an MS and higher education administration and is a member of the independent Educational Consultants Association. She leads admissions committees has given her much insight into the direction decision making process of several admissions offices. She's experienced and working with a variety of students from the academically gifted students with learning support needs student athlete recruits. She's also been a director of admissions at a private high school in New England. Nikki has a passion for counseling families through course selection school decision and the college process will sharing her expert knowledge and how students are evaluated. Nikki will make the education process fun and worry free for your family. I mean, that's sort of perfect that you'd want this process to be fun and worryfree because you're moving into this incredible stage of your life. And yet, from what I hear, there's a lot of stress and confusion and overwhelm during this time. So I'm really excited to hear Nikki story and have her walk us through how to make this process a little bit easier for families. Get thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to be here and to share my knowledge with families. I think there's just so much confusion. You know, and families don't always know what is important to look for in the college process. So that's why I'm here happy to share my knowledge and offer some support but just trying to remove some of that stress as you go through the process. Yeah, so what made you pick this? What makes you care so much about where kids go to college? Or how they get into college? Like, where does that passion stem from? Sure. Well, I've always enjoyed working with students, I think I actually had that idea pretty early on in high school, I knew that I wanted to choose some career in the education field, but didn't really know what I think initially, I thought I wanted to be a classroom teacher, I think when you're in high school, there's few careers that you're exposed to at that time. And then you're expected at 17 to choose a career and you haven't even been exposed to, you know, a fraction of what's available to you. So myself, you know, I thought maybe a career in education could be a great idea. And it is what I chose to follow through with, so I'm very happy. But I also know that I am. That's pretty rare for someone to know what they want to do in high school and to actually follow through. So I was somebody that thought that I wanted to be a classroom teacher. That's what I chose my college for. And I always share with my students that I actually changed my major day one of college so I, I drove my parents nuts trying to figure out you know, what, major and program I was interested in for college, and completely changed all of that day one of college and that is okay, I ended up switching my major three times before I graduated. I stuck with a concentration in education, but I actually chose to major in psychology, and I minored in business. And I was a volunteer in the Undergraduate Admissions Office at the school that I chose to attend. And I was working with families, you know, helping them choose the right fit college. And I really loved that I found that the counseling component of helping families navigate the college admissions selection process was interesting to me. And it was something that made me feel fulfilled. I didn't even know that it was a possibility to work in an admissions office. That's not something that you're exposed to as a potential career option when you're in high school. But I discovered that while I was an undergrad, and I chose to take a job in admissions, before I even graduated, I was hired right away at my alma mater. And I chose to remain there for five years after I graduated. At that time, I pursued a master's degree in higher education while working full time, but I just found that it was really fulfilling for me to help guide families through the college admissions process. And it was really

07:38

just made me feel amazing when a student would ultimately choose the college that I helped them find. But I kind of discovered early on in my career that I would rather help a student find the right fit College, rather than find the right fit student for my college. And so I knew somewhere down the line in my career, I wanted to leave working for an institution. And I wanted to kind of start my own counseling practice on my own to help families navigate what that process is. And so that's kind of how I got to where I am today. And I absolutely love working one on one. With students, it's the best. I didn't have that when I was in high school, I went to a public high school where my guidance counselor had, you know, hundreds of students and her caseload and didn't have the luxury of time to get to know me personally, and to really create a list of colleges that were going to be the best fit for me, for my personality. I think a lot of students that attend public high schools, their guidance counselor's might give them a list of schools that fit them academically, but there's this whole other component of the right personality fit when it comes to college. And that's where I come in. So I, I do have the luxury of time to spend with my students and really get to know them and what makes them tick. And then kind of be a matchmaker of sorts to you know, fit the student with the right

08:59

fit college. I love that. So first of all, I love that, that you're sharing

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your story around changing things up, because I think that's a big stressor that I'm hearing is that I have to know right now. I have to know where I'm going to go what I'm going to do and I'm 17 years old, like how do I possibly, you know, make this massive decision and so I love that, you know, you're saying like, it's okay to change your mind. Like it's okay to start doing something and then recognize you know what, this this doesn't actually fit for me, you know what the story I had the idea, you know, isn't actually matching, but it also sounds like what you do now helps to maybe avoid some of that for families. So what would you say? Like if there was a top three like What do families come to you most stressed about? BSA probably is okay, okay, so Not like the choice, it's what am I going to say? Okay? Yeah, for some reason there is so much stress and anxiety around the essay itself, I think families and students think that that's going to be the deciding factor on if they get into a college. And to be honest with you, your college essay only makes a difference in your admissions decision about 10% of the time. So really, there's no reason to be stressed out on your essay, obviously, you want it to be an accurate reflection of your personality of your passion of your voice. I think you know, there's so much pressure around your essay needing to be perfect. And this advanced piece of writing, that is not the case, you want your essay to be consistent with your voice as a student throughout every other piece of your application. So your your main college essay, your supplemental essays, any email that you've sent to the admissions office, that should all be in the same voice, and it should sound like it came from a 17 year old. So, you know, I think there are families that feel as though they need to hire an essay writer or that the parents should be involved in writing the essay, parents should be involved in proofreading the essay, most certainly, and you want to make sure that the student has done a good job reflecting themselves, but it should sound like it came from the student. I would say, you know, the most memorable essays that I've reviewed in my career, and I've probably reviewed over 10,000 college essays in my career. The most standout essays tend to be about very mundane topics, but are just such a great revealing tool of the students personality, lifestyle, passion. So it's not about choosing this extraordinary topic, about you know, a major life experience you've had, it does not have to be that at all, it could be about your commute to school every morning, it could be about your desk in your bedroom, it could be about, you know, going to the ice cream shop, it could be something very basic, but the way that you've described it, if you're able to showcase a new window into yourself that the admissions committee can't find out about you anywhere else in your application, that's the best essay. Um, so I can definitely share other tips on the essay, but that tends to be the biggest stressor, I think for students. And also choosing a major and the other, you know, piece to hopefully alleviate some of that pressure is the majority of colleges across the country do not require you to declare a major upon entry to the school, it's more than half allow you to be undecided. And actually, the number one major that students declare upon entering college in the United States is undecided. So it is totally fine for you to do that. And most colleges will allow you to take two full years of your time in college to declare a major so you have the end, till until the end of your sophomore year to pick something and then you can always switch it. Obviously the earlier you declare your major, the better because you can start to jump into your requirements for your degree earlier on. But you certainly don't have to. There's time to think about all of that. So yeah, at the age of 70, you don't need to know what you want to do for the rest of your life. But good indicators that you can use to help yourself is to think about what are some of the classes that you really enjoy in high school and start there, and not just what you enjoy? But what classes do you get higher grades in what classes do you tend to connect with your teachers more in. So it's kind of this combination of talent and interest. And and hopefully you can put those together to potentially choose a major that you would be interested in, it doesn't have to be a career path yet.

13:48

And what I'm hearing is that authenticity, like that's really the key in the essay, being authentic, being yourself in choosing your major choosing the college like being true to yourself, you know, rather than, you know, choosing a college because that's where, you know, it's the best one or it's where your parents went. It's really being able to, you know, go within, into that intuition that as a 17 year old and sort of trusting, you know, this is where I think I'm going to be the happiest and really only the student knows that, you know, while everybody has good intentions. They don't know what it feels like to be in that student's body and what is going to make them feel successful. You mentioned something earlier that I just want to come back to so you know, it's funny because I didn't know like I wanted to be a therapist when I was probably 10 years old. And so I had my godmother who was a therapist, and so I saw this, you know, I guess her lifestyle or whatever the thought of you know, supporting people and so sometimes I think you do know when You're really young, and then maybe it gets like taken out of you where it's like, you get conditioned, where all you can only make money if you do finance, like how, whatever the majors are, we're actually you kind of wanted to be a plumber, you know, like you liked, like, or building or you know, something like that. So sometimes I think it is helpful, just to put my two cents in, around, like, what did you like to do when you were little? Like, what did you like to do to play for enjoyment? Because, you know, what I see is that, you know, I see adults who are now working and miserable. And had they followed their intuition and gone was something that lit them up, when they were younger, their work wouldn't feel like work. I'm so glad you brought that up. And I do think times are changing, I think, um, you know, 20 3040 years ago, you know, college was the only option because that was the best way to make the most amount of money. That is no longer the case. You know, it's funny, I consider myself a college admissions consultant, but I will steer students away from college, if I don't think it's the right next step for them. There are so many other options available to students, you don't have to go to college, but I do understand where parents are coming from in their worry of their students not having a bachelor's or undergraduate degree, you know, in order to be successful in the future, and that's valid as well. So you know, families that want their students to pursue a college degree, you should still do that. But that's not the only way to make a great living. And so there's so many other options. And that's okay to think about. So I think that, you know, just doing your own research there to decide, but every time I start working with the student, the first question I asked them is, why do you want to go to college? And then I pause, because it's probably the first time they've ever been asked that question. And it takes them a while, and 100% of the time the student responds with, I don't know. And then we talk about it. And so you know, it's all about having a motivator. And if the motivator is because I want to get a high paying job in the future, awesome. Okay, let's use that as the motivator and work backwards. So we can always do that. Um, but it's funny that, you know, a lot of students have not been asked some of these questions yet. And, you know, let's talk about what do you want your lifestyle to be in the future? You know, have your parents afforded you a comfortable lifestyle up until now as a teenager? Is that something you want for yourself in the future? And how do you achieve that, but there's so many other pathways that you can take outside of college. So if you're a student that absolutely loads School of any kind, and you really hate academics, there's other options for you, you know, you don't have to pursue another four years of school, if that's something that that causes a significant amount of anxiety for you. So you can talk about that. But yeah, there's statistics going around that, you know, the average salary of an electrician is almost double that of a project manager who has achieved a bachelor's degree. So it's, um, it's pretty amazing what what options are out there. So let's talk about it. And that's where I come in.

18:11

Yeah, I love that. And I also, I'm imagining that I'm just seeing you as an advocate for the student where maybe they've never been asked that, and their parents that that's just the path they've been on. And now you've asked that question. And it's sort of helping the family to have those dialogues around, oh, this is the belief that we've had our whole life because this is what our grandparents and what we've known, but, you know, actually, you could do something different if that's what your heart is calling you, and they have you sort of in between is that mediator, to have that conversation and supporting the student. And then also, you know, educating them because I also find my teen clients, they're not listening to their parents, they don't want to hear what their parents so they have to say, around these things. They need mentors, they need other adults, because the whole goal of adolescence is to come into your own. And so, you know, they don't really want their parents to know what they're thinking because they could get in trouble or they get their phone taken away or whatever, you know, is gonna the punishment that will happen for them. So I think it's really, you know, helpful that you're kind of coming into the family as this role model, mentor person for both both units parents. Exactly. Yes, there is a huge mentoring component to what I do. It's just such a developmental time in a young person's life is going through the college admissions process. It's the first major adult decision that they have to make is selecting a college it's going to be the next four years of your life, it's potentially going to set up the foundation for your career. And as we know, you know, people have an average of three different careers in their lifetime, if not more, I think probably by Now, but it's, it's okay. But you still want to make sure you're putting in the time to really think through this decision. And many families and students don't put in the time that they should into making this decision, they'll maybe just choose the cheapest option, or, you know, the the highest, you know, ranking school option. And it really should be more about, you know, going back to your comment of authenticity, that's 100% it, you know, making sure that the student is being genuine and authentic to themselves throughout the the admissions process. But also, you know, choosing a college should not be a transactional experience, it should be about the development that comes along, during that four year time span at college. And, and also, you know, I want to be aware that not every, you know, family is able to afford going away to college, either, you know, the student is choosing a college close to home and living at home, that will be a different experience. If a family's choosing a community college or an online option, there are so many great options. But you know, still being true to yourself. And in that selection, I think is the best thing that you can do. So I agree. So, what are some things that families and our students can do to reduce the amount of stress that comes during this time of transition? Like, I would think that starting early, is that something or other other things that can really helped to make this time fun? And worryfree?

21:33

Yeah, no, great question. Um, yes, starting early and organization, what I'd say would be the two pieces. And so what that actually means is starting to think about college planning, not the college process, but planning for college in ninth grade, which seems very early, I am not encouraging an eighth or ninth grader to go to college, please do not do that. But in eighth or ninth grade, you can start thinking about, you know, is college something we want to pursue for our student, you know, in the future, okay, and And what might that student be interested in? What are some of their academic strengths? Now, because we want to make sure we're selecting the appropriate courses throughout high school, that will set them up for success for when they do apply to college in senior year. So for example, you know, if you're noticing that your eighth grader is either very academically advanced or struggles with academics, you know, potentially you want to do some type of testing or evaluation, just see if maybe an alternative schooling option would be a better option for that particular style of learning versus a public school option. So you know, thinking about we want to make a transition to a private alternative school for ninth grade. So that's one decision that can be made at that point in time. Then in ninth grade, you want to think about, okay, what classes, you know, is the school suggesting for my student to be in? And how are they performing in those classes after ninth grade. So if you're finding that a student is in regular Level One College Placement courses, and they're getting straight A's, maybe we can start to challenge that student and suggest some honors classes, or maybe Advanced Placement AP level courses for sophomore junior year, or on the opposite end, if you're finding that the student is really struggling and getting C's in their classes, you don't want to challenge them too much. Or we do want to look to see if we can get them some tutors so that they do feel more competent throughout their time in high school. So it's all about setting up that foundation for students earlier on in their academics and making those decisions. And so that's where your guidance counselor or a private consultant like myself can really be helpful in those decision making pieces just to help alleviate stress that could come on later, in their time in high school around academics. So then, starting the college process, I recommend to actually start thinking about a potential list of colleges or what you might be looking for in a college, the fall of junior year. So this is a great time to start if you have a junior in high school, to just start thinking about what activities have you chosen for yourself to be involved in outside of the classroom? Are you thinking about taking on leadership roles in those activities next year? You know, do you think you want to continue any of these activities in college? If so, we might want to start pursuing them, you know, in a different, you know, level or pace as well. And then thinking about your classes that you want to take for senior year. So as I was mentioning earlier, the progression of your level of courses can make a difference depending on what you might want to study in college. For example, if you would like to study something in the stem, world engineering, business, something that might be math focused or math heavy, you do typically have to have already completed higher level math courses by the time you're a senior so when you're applying to college, you are a more competitive and more attractive applicant to a STEM program if you have chosen to take calculus in senior year. So that means that you want to be taking PreCalculus in junior year, and Algebra Two and sophomore year, and so on. So if you're a junior taking algebra two or senior taking algebra two, you are not as competitive to STEM programs. So things you can do is to potentially look into taking PreCalculus over the summer or algebra two over the summer, something to help speed up your math track. So that's just one example of how your progression of courses in high school can make a difference in what you might want to pursue as a major in college. This is not across the board. But it can be something that I found to be a pause or puts a student more at a disadvantage when they go to apply to a STEM program if they don't have that upper level course. So planning and organization and starting early are things that can alleviate that stress in senior year, I think a lot of students start to think about the college process, you know, going into senior year, and that's okay, I think majority of students do that. But obviously, you want to alleviate some of those tough conversations of you know what, unfortunately, you won't have to have the ability to pursue the major you're interested in, or we're going to have to change course, because we didn't set you up for success earlier on. So yes, starting earlier to just have those conversations and talk through what that that track of your courses is going to look like throughout high school. And what you've selected to be involved in outside of the classroom, starting earlier is always better. The other helpful piece of alleviating stress is that if you can get all of your applications submitted early on in senior year, then you don't have the added stress of applying to college on top of taking potentially your most challenging year of courses. If you can get your applications done by the end of September, middle of October of your senior year, that way, you don't have to worry about

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you know, that added stressor of meeting deadlines. So even if the deadline for college submission application submission is not until January, it's still beneficial to submit your applications potentially in October to you know, not have to worry about, you know, meeting those deadlines in November, December, just get it done early, why not. And then you can just kind of like sit back, enjoy the rest of senior year, potentially, we'll get your decision back earlier as well, which is great, you can throw on your college sweatshirt and just have fun the rest of senior year, not really, you should still work hard on your classes. But the earlier the better. I just want to reiterate that point, it does make a huge difference to alleviate stress, and typically be happier around the process if you start early on. And that organization piece, as I mentioned is huge time management. You know, setting aside time for the college admissions process, applying to college is kind of like a part time job. And I tell students, you should kind of treat it that way. So whatever time you would have put into a part time job outside of school, you have to dedicate time in your calendar, to working on the college admissions process. So you know, putting together a list of colleges going to visit those colleges preparing for interviews, filling out the Common Application, writing your college essay, these are all very time consuming things. So if you start them early, you won't feel stressed out, you will feel organized. So again, starting in the fall of your junior year is the best time to start college planning. And then I'd say to start diving into the college process itself. Maybe the second half of junior year is a good time. Great. And I would just add, because you know, I'm the therapist here is that all those coping tools, you know, prepare early to have tools that help you cope with stress, because stress creates cortisol which shuts down our brain and our ability to think. So if you're overwhelmed and stressed by the process, it's just it's not gonna feel as successful as it would otherwise if you had been working on those tools. So I practice and teach Heart Math and tapping and mindfulness. And there's lots of exercise, eating the right thing. You know, there's lots of things that students can be doing to, you know, work on both those outer things that you're talking about. But I think that inner peace is also really, really important. I love that. And I think you know, the common theme is just utilizing your resources. You know, I always tell kids, you know, everybody else in your grade is applying to college for the first time as well. You're not alone. You know, it's everybody's doing this at the same time. So you all have the same questions. So any question you have is not a stupid question. You should always feel comfortable to ask those questions. You're all going through it at the same time. But don't compare yourself to other kids in your class because they are going through a completely separate process than you are they are not looking for the same things in a college they don't have the exact same activities resume or transcripts that you have, you can't compare. So your admission college admissions process is your own individual journey. And you need to treat it as such. But utilize your resources and think about you know who in your life can help guide you. And you know, I think It's great for anyone that's listening to this podcast, they've already taken a step and opted into learning more, which is fantastic. Not everybody has that ability or has taken that step. So that makes a difference too. Thank you. So I would love to hear what is a message of hope that you'd want families to know, as they go through this process, your student is going to be okay. You know, I always tell kids that the coolest thing about college in the United States is the variety. I actually had a former

30:31

dean of admissions tell me that, that that that's the best thing about college in America is the variety, there is a college for everyone, there's almost 3000 universities and colleges in the country, you will find the right fit for you. There's just so many options. And so you know, that's why it makes a difference to have a good, you know, variety of colleges on your list to apply to, I usually tell students a healthy list of colleges is maybe seven to 12 schools is totally sufficient. And making sure that you have a variety of schools on that list, and you're going to find the right fit school for you. You know, even though this is the first major adult decision a student is making, it's not your final decision, you always have the ability to transfer, you always have the ability to switch your major. And if at any time in college, you decide it's not the right fit for you not a problem. And it's easier to make that decision earlier on, obviously, but um, you know, I think that there's just so many great options, there's so many people out there that want to help you. So definitely utilize your resources, but you know, everyone will will find the right fit for them. And if it's not college, then that's okay, as well, you can still have a very successful life and career without it. So you know, my goal is to always, you know, try to alleviate some of that stress. But the college process should be fun as well. I mean, how cool is this, you get an opportunity to lay out and open up your life to somebody that's going to, you know, review you and potentially the person on the other end of reviewing your application is falling in love with who you are, and they want you to be at their school. And that's the coolest piece. And I know, because I've been there I've been on the other side, I used to fall in love with students all the time. And you know, I'd be the person in that admissions committee room standing up and raising my hand and saying, You have to admit the student, we have to take this person, they're going to change our campus. So just know that the amount of time and effort that you're putting into your application, there's somebody on the other side, putting in the time and effort to really understanding and learning you as a student. And you might have that person literally standing up in an admissions committee room of 20 people saying, I really love this student, we have to have them here. So just know that your efforts are worth the time. And you will find the right place for you.

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And thank you so much Nikki, can

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you please share where people can find you the best way to connect with you because I think you work with people all over the country. So all over the country? Yes, my company is New England education consultants. And my website is N E education. consultants.com. So an E for New England. Any education consultants calm. I am based in Connecticut, I work with students all over the country all different time zones. I start working with students in ninth grade potentially, but I'd say the majority of my clients are juniors and seniors in high school. I can also work with students that are in college that are trying to decide what they should major in how to best utilize their major to find internships, you know, what career path should they take. So I can help students there as well. Or if you have just graduated college and you're trying to figure out how to utilize your degree, I can also help you there but primarily the college admissions process is what I help with I absolutely love students love working one on one happy to offer some free advice as well. So I do have an Instagram and Facebook, same handle and he education consultants for Instagram and Facebook as well. I offer a bunch of free advice, so feel free to check it out. But thank you so so much for having me today. Any way that I can be of help and offer advice. I'm happy to do it.

34:18

Thank you so much. This is really helpful

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as I have my daughter's in seventh grade my oldest but I can't you know she's always talking about college is on our minds even now. For me as well. So thank you so, so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to invest in your well being. I hope you learned at least one new idea or technique that you might want to implement into your own life. Remember, you're not alone. There is hope and with the right information and support you can thrive. If you're dealing with panic are looking for a step by step process that will allow you to break free From this crippling fear state, I want to invite you to check out my panic attack survival guide, you can grab your free copy at WWW dot Jennifer bronsnick.com Thanks for listening