0606 Female Led Relationships: Orgasm Denial in FLR: Control vs Care for Dominant Women

As a dominant woman, one of the hardest things to navigate in a female-led relationship isn’t control… it’s care.

In this episode, I’m responding to a question from the FLRSkool community that hits right at the core of what so many new dominants struggle with:

How do you balance denying or ruining your sub’s orgasm… without feeling like you’re doing something wrong?

Because let’s be honest…

Most of us were raised to believe that a man needs to finish to feel satisfied.
That his orgasm is the goal.
That we’re responsible for it.

And that belief doesn’t just disappear when you step into dominance.

So we unpack that.

We talk about where that conditioning comes from — porn, culture, expectations — and why it doesn’t always apply inside a real female-led dynamic.

I break down the difference between orgasm denial and ruined orgasms, and why neither of them are about cruelty… when they’re done with intention.

We also get into something deeper:

Control without care becomes cruelty.
 But care without control dissolves the dynamic.

And that’s the line so many women are trying to walk.

If you’re new to FLR… if you’ve ever hesitated… if you’ve ever wondered if you’re “being too much” or “not enough”…

This episode is for you.

Because the truth is…

A lot of submissive men aren’t fulfilled by orgasm.
 They’re fulfilled by being led.

And once you understand that, everything starts to shift.

Transcript

0:00

Denial. Is it an Egyptian river? Is it an Egyptian river? Here's where we're at. First I got Phlegm. Now I'm dyslexic. All right. Welcome back. Did I sound pubescent? Oh good. It's all good. I got the Phlegm from... We're not even 30 seconds into this thing. And we're off the rails. Welcome to the shit show. Hi Subby. Hi, how's it going? Better. I think the Phlegm is leaving. Episode 6? Fuck, I don't know. I'm just here. Season 6, episode 6. I thought you said that last time. Are you sure this isn't Sven? Did you just say Sven? Let me check. 0207. Oh. 0605. We are 0606. Why do I doubt you? How come you didn't do a hair check for me? Got a little... Yeah, it's my... You got a license for that flyaway? Did you see what I just did? Yeah. You're gonna get her done. Did I get it? It's good enough. You're super fucking cute anyway, so... I have something about Mary hair. I do. It looks like somebody had jizzed in it. It's like... Okay. We need to get into it. On the topic of jizz. First, do we have any housekeeping? We do. Take it away. So if you were on the Patreon, you knew about this a while back. And if you were... I don't know, a couple other places, I think you might have known about it. But we are on the school platform. S-K-O-O-L. In fact, if you type in F-L-R-S-K-O-O-L.com, it'll bring you right to it. That was very radio announcer-ish. I went to school for radio. You don't say. Anyhoo. Things you learn. We're on the school. That was the big thing. That was the big... Don't tell anybody yet. It's not quite ready. I mean, it's going. There's some people there. And there's some posts. And we just wrapped up course number three. Why do you do three that way? Because this finger hurts. My fingers hurt! Sadly, I can't even share that. That is the housekeeping. Is my flyaway really gone now? Yeah, it's... Did my spit help? Yes. It's like glue. You can actively watch this podcast and see me go solidly into a food coma. By the way, yes. That is the place where all the video podcasts will be viewable, watchable for free. No more YouTube. Do you see how I opened that lead for you? And I didn't even know I was doing it. I like it. Fuck, I'm smart. There's a separate room for men to chat in, separate for ladies. However, we're having a problem with like... Differentiating. Yeah, I mean, so... I mean, if you go there, just keep in mind of the heading of the room that you're responding to so that it ends up in the right room until we can get that fixed. Is that it for housekeeping? I think so. That's pretty good though, right? That is pretty good. I'm pretty excited. That's been a thing in the coming. Speaking of coming. Not at all. That's what we're talking about today. Oh, look at you. Well done. Food coma or not, sometimes I'm with my shit. Do you want me to finish that? So speaking of school, that's where this... Comment came from or this post came from. It was a post from somebody feeling guilty about orgasm denial. Do you want me to read the actual thing? Yes. Okay, it says, as a new dominant in a female-led relationship, I am navigating the balance between control and care. I sometimes hesitate to deny or ruin my subbies orgasm because I've internalized the idea that men need to finish to feel fulfilled. I'm exploring how that belief fits or doesn't within our dynamic. We thought this would be a great talking point. Here is what I responded. I said, I can relate to your struggle because I also struggled with this. My best advice is to trust your gut and do what feels right in the moment. The first orgasm I ruined for my subbie was a spur of the moment decision on my part. He had no idea it was coming, pun intended. And to be honest, I didn't either. He still talks about the time that I did that. To this day, and it was years ago. I think what has helped me is really grasping the fact that my subbie is fulfilled as long as I am satisfied. The orgasm is just a bonus. Also remember your dynamic is your dynamic. It doesn't have to look like anyone else's. If denial or ruining orgasms isn't for you, don't do it. Well worded. Sometimes I'm crafty with my wordage. Very crafty with your wordage. But I will tell, well, a little story time. Yeah. The first time that I ever really denied him, like we were mid PIV, mid PIV. Like hot and heavy. Yep. Like just like. And I can always tell when the end is nearing because things grow larger at the end of the banana. And I, just as he was about to, jumped off. I just got off. And I basically writhed in pain. It was amazing. It was awesome. Do you ever question our sanity? Just kidding. Not like the one reviewer did. Someone should do a wellness check on these kids. There's no kids. No, that was an incredibly, to me, that was a very incredibly powerful moment in our relationship. Because that was the moment without a filter again, you just decided and did. I did. Right? There was no hesitation. There was no, maybe not. No, you did. I didn't overthink it. I just did it. Yes. Also, that is what brought on the me telling him his breathing was annoying me. So, I mean, sometimes. Two very different things. Sometimes I probably need to look at my filter, but sometimes stuff just comes out. Throw it right the fuck out. Yep. I think that even women who are experienced in their female led relationship also struggle with this. I don't necessarily know that it's specific to new. And maybe it is because the more comfortable you get. Yeah. With the whole thing. Okay. I think even though maybe you are further along in your FLR, maybe you've not come across this. Right? So, to your point, maybe you're experienced on, but you've not done this. Yep. Maybe this has been something you haven't experienced or tested, really, or thought about. Maybe you haven't had your fuck yes moment with it yet. A hundred percent. And maybe you're five years into your FLR and you're finding your very first fuck yes moment. Right? Absolutely could be the case. I will say that I think women have been, I don't, not groomed. Groomed isn't the word I'm looking for. Women have been taught, especially the older generation of women, that, I mean, it's a very, it was, it's very patriarchal. Right? So we were kind of, again, I don't want to use groomed, but conditioned. That's the word I'm looking for. To think, you know, it's important to please your man or make sure he feels fulfilled and things like that. Right? And I think that in the bedroom, that is very ingrained in us. Because before I met you, my past partners, I would just try to hurry up and make them come. I'm very good at what I do. You're incredibly good at what you do. Because the sooner they came, the sooner I could be done. And then I would just take care of myself later. Right? So I think. Which is just sad. Like so sad. I think there's a lot of women out there that are like that. And I think too, on that note, there's a lot of younger women who don't even know what it's like to have an orgasm because nobody has taught them. And that's, that would be a whole different podcast. I mean, we could talk about how important it is to discover yourself and understand what makes you feel good. But I think much like denying an orgasm, it's frowned upon or shunned, or I don't even know what the right words are because, you know, that's just not how we were raised. That's not what we were taught or whatever. And as men, we are entitled, right? Yep. I think that was also, you know, going back to when the first time I did that, I think that was also. Buck, was that the last time we had sex? Pretty much. That was like five years ago. Oh, it was more than that. We've had sex in that amount of time. Twice. But that, that moment was. It was, it was pretty. Way. That was like in the first several years or so. Yep. I, yep. Cause we were in the house, I think still. It was pretty empowering to me as well. The first time that that happened, I think that you weren't upset and like you were so excited about it and seeing your reaction. Absolutely. Was pretty interesting. And I was pretty proud of myself for just doing it and not thinking about it because I've been a chronic overthinker, right? So the fact that I just did it. And I mean, maybe that's what you do if you're in a situation like this, where you're not sure if you want to deny an orgasm or if that's part of your dynamic, try it once and see what you think. See if it works for you. If it does something for you, then you have a conversation after the fact of. You know, how, how do we do this to make it look different? Or what were your thoughts on it? Or you know what I mean? Absolutely. That's like, that's so incredibly important and and relevant, right? Because you won't know until you try it, right? And that's across the board on any of these sprinkles, right? You won't know until you try it and maybe you try it and maybe you don't like it as a woman. Maybe you don't. Well, because I've said that too. Like I very much because of the growth in the banana there. So it hits a certain spot and it's very enjoyable for me. You know what I mean? That was what was really hard for me because I usually got off when you finished because of the way things meshed together when we did that. So that was also a part for me, you know, I didn't want to lose that either because that was always a good one. So then what is the balance of that? I suppose, right? Yep. Well, there's different ways you can deny it doesn't necessarily have to be P.I.B. either, right? Like what are the other forms of denial? What would you? Well, there's T's in denial, right? Yep. There's ruining and there's denial. There's two different things, right? Yep. So ruining has to be P.I.B. Oh, right. So I'm stuck in the denial stage now where before I was in the ruining stage. A hundred percent. You spent an evening in the ruining stage. An evening. Denial the entire rest of the time. I don't fuck around. That's something I like and I go with it. I've never had better sex in my life. I know. Just kidding. That says a lot. He's a whore. Am not. Used to be. Okay. We've kind of gone over. Well, we brushed over some things. Yes. Let's let's try to be focused here in my food coma. So denial is in the act for anybody who maybe doesn't know. Denial would be during the act. Nope. Nope. Denial. Denying the act altogether. Denying the act altogether. Mm hmm. Ruining would be what I did that one time where you just ruin the whole orgasm. I'm just living for the next time. Okay. Okay. Anyway, for somebody who's interested in exploring, what would you say is a good way to tiptoe into denial? What would you say are some things that you could do for denial or tease and denial? Okay. We make light of it, right? However, you either consciously or subconsciously tease me every fucking day, right? Yeah. And whether you're aware of that or not, it is incredibly effective, right? So I know that most likely I won't get to enjoy an orgasm from that teasing, right? But I live for the teasing as well, right? Yeah. That keeps me like... You're always on... Right? Yes. I get that. Yeah. Okay. Because I get to be married to somebody like you who looks like you and acts like you and all the things, right? Mm hmm. And I'm like peaked out all the time because of that. So you would say you're stimulated. I'm very stimulated by that. Okay. And you enjoy that. Absolutely, right? Now, not all men are like that, but I know, guys, there are some of you that are just like that. So you're at a heightened arousal. Yes. That's what I was looking for. And I've said this before. It's like 24-7 foreplay. Mm hmm. Like we live in a state of foreplay without doing really anything. Yep. So somebody who's just starting out this dynamic, and this might be a sprinkle that they want to add to their dynamic, what would be a tip that you would offer as like a starting point? Okay, so. It would involve a discussion, I would suspect, to find out, yeah. That's where you start. Yep. Right? Because through the discussions that we've had, you figured out the things to do or wear or say or whatever that are very, my God, that are very effective. Mm hmm. And you've naturally just done that. And maybe that's naturally who you are anyways. Yeah. Right? But you know that that is effective to me. So in the communication that you have with your partner, men, listen. First of all, listen, right? Express yourself in your interest in this, for sure. But then listen to the response, right? And women, don't be scared to advocate for what you want out of this as well. Right. Because this needs to benefit absolutely the woman as well. Yep. As far as the mechanical what to do, you don't have to dress like a slut all the time, right? Right. But there are elements of that that can be done. Women, you will know your man, right? You will know the things that work with him, right? So indulge in that. And there's no expectation from you at all. That's the hardest part too. I never really was into the teasing aspect of it. I mean, I've always been kind of a tease. But usually to strangers because I knew there was no follow up, right? Like I didn't have to follow through with anything. Like I was never that way with my partner because then I figured I had to put out because I was teasing and blah, blah, blah, blah. Ooh, the unhealthiness of my past relationships. But. But you got here. I feel like I am much more intense in my teasing game because I know that I can do whatever I want and there are no expectations. So I enjoy that much more because I can be in the mood to tease the shit out of him, but not want to have sex. Mm hmm. There are no expectations. Yes, that's the key word. There are thirsts and cravings and. And he's very vocal about those. Right. So like I know, which also gets me to I enjoy knowing that I'm turning you on. Exactly. That's a thing of it for me. Men to that to that point then. So then men, when you notice you're the woman in your life doing these things. Ramp it up, man. Well, vocalize. Yeah, say the thing. Vocalize what you're feeling. Do the things like we said this a whole bunch of times and I'll say it again. Every time I walk by her, I graze her butt. That is a connection that she knows that I'm thinking of her. Right. And that everything going on and whatever in the shit storm and all that it is it is you and I. Mm hmm. And we have that touch. And not all people are like that necessarily. Yeah. But find your love language or your thing. Right. And utilize that to make that that connection. Especially now when the beautiful woman in your life has upped her game on the teasing part. She needs to know that. Yep, this is working. Yeah. I'm a fucking puppy following you around. Right. I'd be so good to you. I'd be so good to you. Sorry. Yes. But that's that's what I'm saying. Yeah. So that's the both sides of it. But it starts with the communication. OK, so let me ask you this, because this is one of the talking points. Yeah. Do you feel like if you don't have an orgasm, you're not fulfilled? No, and here's the thing. And, you know, maybe because I'm 55, I've figured out that I don't need that. Right. I would love it. Like all the time with you. Right. I would love that. Right. But I don't need that. I just need you. Right. Because this is not effective if you're not around. This is very one sided. Right. Yes. OK, so no, I don't. I don't need that physically. I don't feel better or worse. OK. With or without it. You know, it's just because it's a very short lived thing. It's in that moment it's done. There's no like lingering whatever. I would like to know why it seems some men after they have an orgasm or empty their balls, do they turn into a big fat banana head? I mean, there's a helicopter just driving by right now. Yeah. Why is it that after men have an orgasm, they just turn into a big dickhead? Now, you brought that up, right? And I don't know that about myself. I mean, I do because you said it, but I don't know that I feel different. Well, here's what I wonder. And we have had this discussion. I have mentioned to you that it seems like after you have an orgasm. Your demeanor changes a little bit. My husband has never been a dickhead. I mean, he has been a dickhead, but. More playfully than. Yeah. He's a fucking dickhead like that all the time. But he can be like dickhead funny. Right. But he's never been an outright. I would say asshole, except for maybe a few circumstances. Yeah, like I can do. I can count it on one hand. Right. Not the point. I'm getting off track because ADD. Yeah, but I've been a brat. How about that? Yep. Right. A submissive who is antagonizing, basically. Yes. Yes. I'm sorry. But like there is a difference or a change in you. When you are allowed to empty your balls. Is that testosterone? Well, that's what I was going to say. Like biology, biology would tell me that there's a chance that your testosterone increases. Because testosterone is, I think, what makes you. It's a contributing hormone to becoming horny, per se, because I know that there are women that take testosterone injections in perimenopause or menopause or whatever to increase their sex drive. So my question is, is that then when you have an orgasm, does that increase your testosterone and like make you feel all big and manly or maybe, you know, it's just and like I said, it's not like extreme with you. I can just tell a difference. But I can see that with males across the board. But I don't know that I can always tell a difference because sometimes you will, because we've had the conversation that you should probably like masturbate in the shower every now and then to empty the balls because it's supposed to be good for the prostate, but probably not as much as recommended. So fuck it. We're not doing it. But I have been able. I have been able to tell some of the times when you've done it just by your attitude and other times not. So it's interesting to me. I would just be curious. Like, do you feel different? No, not at all. You don't notice the change at all. Maybe maybe after I have done that in the shower, I'm very mindful because of what you said. Right. And I'm very mindful to, OK, mind your fucking P's and Q's. She doesn't deserve you to be a dickhead. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. So. Interesting. That's not anything to do with the topic. It's just kind of. Yeah. So the talking points that we have veered off of multiple times now we've talked about fulfillment. You don't feel that you need an orgasm to feel fulfilled. My scrolling up. Yeah. Go for it. We did that now versus ruining care versus cruelty. Does ruining an orgasm make me feel mean? Yes. Isn't that the point? It maybe does a little bit, but I can't lie. I like it. What a what a great dichotomy. Yeah. Right. Where the the cruelty actually shows the care. Right. I mean, for us, not for everyone and maybe for a lot of people, I don't know. But for us, that cruelness shows the care. Yeah. I mean, we've talked about this before, too. Like. I could be doing everything sexual and all the things. Right. And his banana is like, yeah, I'm not participating. If I hit him a couple of times, we're up and at attention and ready. So like his love language is abuse. It is, but I think it's developed to that. I don't know that it has always been to that because certain things definitely arouse me. Choking. No, but like smells and visual things. But you're aroused, just not visibly. Not physically, probably. Yes. Yes. That's what I meant. Yes. Yes. Physically. Like you don't have a boner. Right. That's such a dumb word. Maybe. I guess I don't know. Boner. But I mean, a certain smell or a look will whip me up inside. Right. But maybe not give me a boner. Boner. I said it. But if I choke you or hit it, it's instantly. I mean, it's instant. Yeah. Like no Viagra or blue chufa you needed. And listen, this goes back to childhood. Yeah. For me anyways. I don't know. That's interesting. I don't even know where that came from. Oh, care versus cruelty. Right. I guess the cruelty is. So you should certainly have a conversation with your partner. You have to understand what turns them on and what is arousing to them. Like there has to be an understanding between the two of you before you enter into the denial and the. Absolutely. Ruining and all of that. Because you have to know. Yeah. Because you certainly don't want to ruin something and your partner's not on the same page. Right. I think that could cause a lot of damage. Right. Chances are the male has brought this up. Yeah, it's interesting. It's usually the male. Yep. At that point, the door is open. Yeah. To explore things. Right. So when you do explore things and he responds negatively to it. There needs to be a conver. Needs to have. Welcome. There needs to be a conver. There has to be a conversation about. Welcome to my chaos. Sorry. Glad you're here. There has to be a conversation about. Yes. Why that ended up being negative. Right. Yep. And these are going to be hard conversations to have. Nobody wants to talk about why they feel. I don't know. I think people have a hard time in general talking about feelings. Right. Like I don't always like to talk about my feelings. Like this morning I was super cunty and I didn't want to talk about. I was angry. Now maybe I'm getting my period for the 40th time this month. Or maybe I just was hungry. I don't know. Are you talking about earlier? Earlier today. I was real fucking angry. While you're recording the course for the school. If you watch it. It's frustration though. Yeah. That's right. And it was cold in here. So all of that is valid. Right. But I didn't want to talk about why I felt that way. Like he's a problem solver and he wants to solve all my problems. Right. And I don't even know what my fucking problem is. Like if somebody would say, what's your fucking problem? I'd be like, fuck, I don't know. So you have to get over not wanting to talk about your feelings because it's important, especially when it's situations in the bedroom like that. I think it's super important for you to be on the same page. It's crucial, I think. Because I think people's feelings can get very hurt. Everybody's very insecure about bedroom performance. About, you know, things that are occurring in the bedroom. And I think that's a big hindrance point to a lot of this. Is that you're just not secure in your abilities or what you're going to do. And it makes you uncomfortable. And question yourself. The care versus cruelty thing. This just popped in my head too. Say the man in the relationship has ED. But through incredible communication. That's fucking open the door, game on. Right. That could be, I'll say it for me. Right. And it is kind of that if I can't perform, I need to be ridiculed. Right. But you have to talk about these things first. You can't just go right at it without a conversation. Because that's like a woman being called fat when you pick on a man for his erectile dysfunction. A hundred percent. But then that's where the cruelty can become the care. Because you found that connection point. Right. Between his inability to function and for you to fucking destroy him. Right. That's fun for both of you. Yeah. Or it can be fun for both of you. Yeah. Because you know you're in love. Right. Right. You have to stay in the right mindset. Right. Because I think for me as a woman. It took me a long time to get to the point where I could be mean to you. Because you always took such. I mean you always still do take such good care of me. But I had a very hard time being. I don't like the word cruel. Being cruel to you or abusive by some respects of the term. Just because I felt like it was not appropriate. Because you always took such good care of me. And that's a big hill to get over. But once you get over it. It's amazing on the other side. Absolutely. I think. Absolutely. And that comes from years of conversations. Years. Yeah. You're not going to solve this in an afternoon. Right. This is going to take some time. Well and it's going to take a lot of having conversations. I think after a situation occurs. Right. Like you have to talk about. Hey. I mean maybe not like right after. But very soon after. So it's still fresh in your mind. And the feelings or whatever can be still fresh. And whatever. But yeah. But yeah. But it just takes. It just takes communication. It really does. All of this. We should have a game for all the podcast episodes. Where every time I say the word communication. You have to take a shot. Yep. It's a new drinking game. Oh shit. People would have alcohol poisoning. Absolutely. Communication is very important. It is. That's a shot. Yeah. Do you want to answer what many submissive men actually want? Or do you think you covered that? I would say you covered it. I think I kind of covered it. Like we would submissive. A submissive man. This is my point of view again. This is a submissive man would want his dominant woman. To speak his FLR love languages. Right. Whatever those things are. And they're different for everybody. Right. Like you just said. It took you a while to get over the hill of cruelty. Right. It would take. I mean, we can touch on, you know, cuckold too. It would take some women a long time to get over that hill of cheating. Right. Once you get to the other side of it. It is a massively powerful aspect to your FLR. A hundred percent. Right. It can be. And if you try it once and it doesn't work. You don't have to go back to it. Oh, fuck. It does require a whole lot of communication. I mean, a whole lot. And you have to be prepared. Fucking hell. The emotions. Yeah. You have to be prepared on both sides. But that's a different podcast. It is. Just some questions. Do you think that questions questions for you listening? Do you think that orgasms equal satisfaction? Would you say you're not satisfied unless you get an orgasm? And what role should denial play in a female led relationship? If any. Yes. Can control exist without cruelty? That's a good one. It depends on your love language. It really does. Yeah. Do we have a summary of all of this or do we just say. That. Tease and denial. Ruining. Is absolutely a sprinkle. I would agree. In an FLR. Yeah. And it's not for everyone. Correct. Right. But it could be for many people. And you can only determine that through conversations. Do you think it's more a part of a female led relation on the male side? Female led relationship on the male side than the female side? Just because ADD. You mean just as far as wanting it? Yes. Do you think more men are. Yeah. Continue. I think maybe the beautiful woman in the relationship has those. Just like the question has those hesitancies or reservations. Yeah. Because I've you know she's been programmed or whatever her whole life that. Well, he can't possibly be happy without an orgasm. Right. Which is not true. I've never been happier and I have an orgasm and I couldn't tell you how long. You're welcome. Thank you. Yeah, but I mean all this comes always comes back to communication. Yes. Really it does. Yep. You have to have the conversations. If the beautiful woman in the relationship is toying around with this idea can't get past it. Talk. And and not talk with your man. Also talk with your peers. Right. Because there may be insight. Yes. If you have peers that you feel comfortable talking to like I don't I have a couple. I mean peers like okay the school. Yeah. Right. You know or we had Patreon for a while but the but school is a little more interactive and whatever and you can interact with each other there. That's the that's the community part of it. Yeah. Right. Yeah. So check in post DMs whatever check in with somebody that you feel comfortable talking with and say hey I noticed you know you're into this and I man I just can't get my I just can't get my head past it. You know. Yep. So. That's smart. Look at you another school pump. I would have missed that one. Well that's the. That's that one I think. Hot mess express. There's probably more on that but you know we just wanted to talk it out a little bit. Sorry I forgot to turn my watch on silent. It's okay. I didn't hear it anyway. This is a podcast. It's not a course for school. Yeah. F L R S K O O L. Just saying. Come join the fun for fuck sakes. Fuck sakes. All right. Courses are dropping soon. We got all kinds of content. Super excited. Sorry go ahead. Are you done now? Yes. Pumping school. I'm sorry. It's fun. Congratulations. What do I normally say? Why can't I remember? I will say this. It takes way less effort to be kind to somebody than to be a dick. Fucking hell people are crazy. I don't know if it's because it's tax time or what. Get over it. Be kind. Love one another. Stay safe. Stay healthy. I love you all. Can we come in?