Winning an Ironman with Jessica Cullen

Hot off her first Ironman Canada win! Jessica Cullen sits down with Chad and her husband, coach, training partner Mark to dive into her massive success leading up to her Ironman win.

Jess and Mark discuss training, nutrition and the ups and downs within a big endurance season. 

Jess shares stories about puking on a 200k training ride and not letting herself quit and then waking up the next day and crushing a 32k run! 

Mark and Jess talk about their 1-2-3 system for grading their training days. 

Of course we dive into her experience winning Ironman Canada and how she knew the day was going to be special even before the getting to the starting line.

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Transcript

Chad [0:06 - 0:40]
community of members, coaches and professionals working as a team of like minded individuals in constant pursuit, connecting this exclusive group with the tools and resources they require to live a high performance lifestyle, conquering what life has thrown at them. We are living the fit life. Welcome to the living podcast, episode 60. I'm your host chad miller today. We're sitting down with jess cagle in hot off the trail of jess, winning Ironman Canada race and of course joining her is the mastermind and her husband and coach, Mark Cullen jess. How are you

Jess [0:40 - 0:47]
doing? Thanks. It's been pretty exciting. It's still wrapping my head around it.

Chad [0:47 - 0:54]
Yes, congratulations on amazing feat. I'm really excited to dive into your story today and Mark, how you doing buddy?

Mark [0:54 - 0:57]
Doing? Good. Thanks for having me back on the podcast again. It's been a while.

Chad [0:57 - 1:16]
Yeah, it has been a while. Yes, we've we've rallied through some crossfit events recently um but we've talked about in the, just before we went live of having the dynamic duo on on live on the podcast. So um we're, what is it two weeks post Ironman Win?

Jess [1:16 - 1:17]
Yeah, I think so.

Mark [1:20 - 1:23]
10 days approximately,

Jess [1:23 - 1:25]
approximately 10.

Chad [1:27 - 1:31]
Amazing. How are you? How are you feeling jess? You

Jess [1:31 - 1:59]
know what? I'm feeling great. Um I always find that Iron Man's are a little bit less wear and tear on your body um than the shorter stuff, at least in terms of the soreness afterward. Um I find that Iron Man are a little bit more systemic, so it's just taking the time to eat, sleep, just recover chill. So workouts are way more chill, but yeah, like feeling like bodies feeling amazing and yeah, just overall feeling sort of like elated, like it was, it was still like pinching

Chad [1:59 - 2:14]
myself um many days of rest recovery did you do after the Iron Man? Like, I mean, I mean like no, like no running, no biking, no nothing.

Jess [2:14 - 2:51]
Um Well I did, so I'll tell you only because this is a perfect segway. The recovery was on point for our, for the Iron Man the day after. Um there's a river um near where we are and there's like some and mountain ranges, so we had some drinks and we went in the floaties and we floated for like four hours down the river. So that was brilliant. Ironman recovery the day after that was wine tours and the day after that we flew home. Um so it was about four days of absolute three full days. Um The fourth day I went on a ride with, with MArc and the

Chad [2:51 - 2:56]
club. Okay, alright, that's an appropriate amount of time to take rest. I

Jess [2:56 - 2:58]
think it's time

Chad [2:58 - 3:13]
to reflect and enjoy awesome. Okay, cool, cool, cool. I like that. I like that. I was, I always wonder if you're crazy endurance folk when you guys throttle a massive competition if it's like one day and it's like the next day I want to get back onto because you guys are so used to the volume,

Jess [3:13 - 3:31]
you know what? Yes, when I was less of a mature athlete and not calling myself old, but like the more that you like actually just learned of the science of it, I'm like, I want to be the best I can be and I want to go fast so to do that, you need to have really good recovery cycle. So like I'm actually pretty hardcore about my recovery, so I'm totally fine with taking days

Chad [3:31 - 3:44]
off and and Mark, I know you share this in your shoulders a lot, but like how amazing was the race day from a fan and coach sort of spectator experience for just

Mark [3:45 - 4:41]
yeah, I wasn't sure what the day would be like, I've never really spectating like a long iron Man type of day like that as a, as a coach and having like six athletes on the course, so I figured it was gonna be a bit of a nerve wracking day and then man right away as those like splits were coming in early, I was like, this is gonna be a crazy day. So um man, it was 10 hours of just like watching the tracker like so pumped up, but so nervous and then um just following that through the run and like seeing jess like realizing what she was doing in the moment and like taking it all in was definitely, it made it by far, like the best day of triathlon, I've ever been a part of like racing or spectating like it was just so cool to like watch that inaction and obviously like to have one of your athletes who is also your wife doing it is a pretty amazing moment. So, yeah, I was on the verge of tears all day. It was, it was a pretty amazing

Chad [4:41 - 4:42]
when

Mark [4:42 - 4:45]
I won't soon forget. That's for sure, and will be hard to be talked.

Chad [4:45 - 4:50]
So, spectating is more stressful than actually racing.

Mark [4:50 - 5:13]
Yes, 100%. Like, I guess is that great races where I've been on course and you can't really, like, you're just focusing on executing your day. Were there like, you have no power over like, what is going on? So you're just, yeah, just waiting for splits to come in and waiting for 5.5 hours on a bike ride where there isn't a whole lot of splits and you're just praying they get through with no mechanical trouble. So, yeah, Spectating far harder.

Jess [5:13 - 5:15]
Yeah, I'd much rather be saying for sure.

Chad [5:17 - 5:44]
Okay, good to know. Good to know. Um, yeah, so today we're gonna dive into obviously the race. I want to learn more about your story jess. I was gonna ask more quickly before we jumped into that, just like, obviously it's a big deal Ironman Canada? Like, how are you feeling before the day? Did you said you had six athletes? So like, did you sort of anticipate that this was gonna be a big race day for the club. Like, you're feeling pretty good? Um going to that day?

Mark [5:44 - 6:29]
Yeah, I think I was really nervous about the day because I knew that the group had put in so much work towards it and they were also ready for the race. It's one thing when somebody's like showing up and they're maybe not prepared for a race, like you don't put a whole lot of stock in it, you're like, okay, do the best you can on the day. But like, this group was very ready to do well on this day and I watched them, so many of them live in KW or I keep in close touch with if they don't. Um and most of them work one on one with me who were racing that race. So, like, I was very dialed into what their ability levels were and was very invested in that day. So it was, yeah, I knew it could be a special day. That's why I was so nervous. And uh yeah, it was definitely exciting to follow along all day.

Chad [6:29 - 6:59]
Sounds like a big day all around for both of you. So that's super awesome. And yeah, I want to dive into the race details. Um a little bit, but I quickly just, I wanted to kind of, I understand a lot of times when we have these podcasts, we obviously want to hear about, you know, how you got to where you are today, right? Like, and a lot of people have similar stories to some sense, but I'm curious what your sort of athletic background is and how you sort of, you know, become the winter environment in Canada.

Jess [6:59 - 8:39]
I was, what surprises a lot of people is that I wasn't athletic at all as a child. Like I didn't, I wasn't even on like a pickup soccer team or anything. I didn't, I didn't really play any organized sports until high school gym class. Um I was raised conservative Mennonite, so actually, um, not not super competitive background at all. Um so in fact competitive sports were discouraged a little bit. So um, I didn't really realize how competitive I was till we let that loose later in life. But um my very first half marathon was in university actually. Um and I was joking, it was like at a party and a bunch of my friends were talking about that they were, they were going to be racing, I was living abroad for my third year and I said, sure, why not? Um so it was, it was not a brilliant first foray into running, but it, I really loved it and it all the second that I um you know, started running, I was, I just, I just fell in love with it. It was, I was one of those annoying people that just liked running right away. Um so then I was quickly drawn into sort of like the ultra stuff like I did um race called the Trans Rockies 120 miler which is like in in Colorado in the mountains um And then I started getting into like the adventure racing stuff which is like multi day sleep deprivation. Um Lots of um that's where you're sort of tackling the mental side of going really really long, so um it was cool to be able to hone that um long before I did Iron Man, so by the time I got to Iron Man it actually felt pretty short. Um So

Chad [8:39 - 8:51]
that the adventure runs, sorry tell me more about this, like these are like yeah sorry adventure runs, what is it? So you're running and you're not sleeping, you're running you're sleeping.

Jess [8:51 - 12:06]
So adventure races is like this wild type of racing, it's so fun. Um and you can do a bunch of different um like it's anywhere from a six hour race to like the World Championship event to seven days. Um So it's four or five sports, so it's um like hiking or trail running, mountain biking, um paddling, rock climbing and then orienteering and you have teams of the professional way to do as teams of four and you would be uh you don't know the start finish line before you're handed the maps and then you have checkpoints, so basically the team that traverse is the distance in the fastest amount of time and gets all the checkpoints is the one that wins so you need to come up with strategies as a team and then once you get into the multi day, you need to have a sleep strategy. Um And it's just it's this whole other, you know, it's whole sidebar, I learned everything I know about leadership from adventure racing to, it's like communication. Um And it really introduced that whole idea of team sport to me in endurance, which is why community is so important. Um so I was I was really big into this because it's such a fascinating sport, it does take a lot out of you to do, like um my my longest amount of time going without sleeping I think was like 64 hours. Um and then we were forced actually just because of the water crossing at night to take like a one hour nap and then we finished, but like needing to be able to push through that level of fatigue. Um I think like it set me up because like I've got to tell you having the background that I do in sport, um I've got to start line and I'm like I know how to suffer more than any one of my competitors here because I have gone to the like the darkest places possible. Um So I I think that I carry a little bit of that with me. Um So then after adventure racing, I started dabbling into like cycling, so that was where I sort of transitioned from mountain biking to a little bit more of it was like, I did some road racing, um I did something called crit racing, which is again, it's completely different than adventure racing, but it's, it's high impact, it's like over in one hour, it's that adrenaline and um you know, high crash rate, which is, it was just a fun. So some of my success there, I did um I podium at the Tt provincial championships, um I got third place there, and then I actually won my category in um provincials, and so then I started like, this is around the time that I ended up with Mark and we both try to triathlon and I always had people saying, oh, you'd be so good if you just focus, and the thing is like I, my my specialty is, is not focusing um which is why triathlon is the perfect sport for me, is that I love that there's three sports I need to master in one, or else I would be chasing, I would still be out there doing adventure racing and mountain biking and quit racing and and if it's not structured, it's, it's not gonna come together into one sport, so it's, it's really, it gives me like all that diversity that I crave in sports, so that's a bit about my background.

Chad [12:09 - 12:18]
Yeah, okay, so you weren't competitive at a young age, but it sounds like you've really kind of went full send,

Chad [12:22 - 12:27]
wow, that's insane, how long have you been doing triathlon slash slash

Jess [12:27 - 12:28]
so

Chad [12:28 - 12:32]
and so and focus like, you know, as your sports

Jess [12:32 - 12:43]
So well and I would use all of those different sports so that I will start with traffic on. The one that I started when I started triathlon was market was 2016 that we did our first one.

Mark [12:44 - 12:48]
Yeah, 2016 We did Muskoka 70.3 was our first race.

Jess [12:48 - 13:11]
Yeah. And I in my head, I was like, I'm just, I'm a runner that's trying triathlon because I'm in that phase of like I'll try any sport in endurance world and then I'll just go back to running when I'm done. But I ended up, I'm hooked, you know, five or six years later I'm still here. So, um, yeah, it's been, it's been a fun journey.

Chad [13:11 - 13:50]
I mean I, I guess I have to ask like I always, for me not being in endurance athlete at this moment, I talked to adam and mark a lot of times about this like, and I always ask the question and everyone kind of asks like, like why, like why do you put yourself through this sort of pain, why do you do this sport that requires so much time, investment volume right? There's also other fitness and other sports to be healthy. That doesn't take up nearly the amount of time as a sport like this does. So like why why do you do this? Like, why what, what's your, why I guess?

Jess [13:50 - 14:59]
Yeah, well I would say like, overall one of my wise in life in general is to reach my potential and help other people reach. There's so the thing that I love about triathlon is that it really is hard and I think one of the reasons I'm drawn to it is because it takes time because if it was really easy then everyone would do it. And I think that that's why I gravitate towards it is, you know, I I choose this sport because it's, it feels like a little bit of an Everest it takes, you can't fake a fit body, you can't fake um you know, all of the work that it takes to put some us three sports together into one. Um and for me that's that's kind of a triumph to be able to do that. And and it, for me it's it's a way of practicing out success in other areas of life by, because in every area of life, you're balancing more than just one thing. So I kind of get to practice that in a small way with triathlon of balancing three different sports, it's how are you gonna do, you know, balances different things in life and then overcome those obstacles and put it all together. So yeah, it takes a long time, but it's not just about the sport, it's just all the things I think it just makes me a better person to

Chad [15:00 - 15:05]
great answer, I have to ask a little segue here, but have you guys ever heard of High rocks?

Jess [15:05 - 15:08]
Yes, yes. And yes, we'll do it one day.

Chad [15:08 - 15:11]
Alright, alright, let's do it together. That sounds good.

Jess [15:12 - 15:16]
I

Chad [15:16 - 15:45]
was actually gonna do it this year just for fun. And then I recently been thinking more and like, you know, like, I think there's a lot of athletes in our community that would probably cross over because I heard someone say, hi Roxy said um I'm not strong enough for crossfit. I'm a really good runner, but like, my endurance is great. So, high rocks is perfect or something. Like, there's a lot of people that are kind of in that middle hybrid around. So it's like, I was like, I should ask Mark and just about

Jess [15:45 - 15:46]
this,

Chad [15:47 - 16:20]
it sounds like you guys would try anything, I mean, but we'll keep you focused on your goals for sure. Um So I think everyone probably wants to hear more about your story specifically to the race. I'm sure you've talked about a lot. I'm sure you've sort of had a chance to debrief. I'm I'm curious obviously hear about jess and mark your sort of experiences throughout the day. Um And so yeah, like maybe can we start with with the race? Like, how was,

Jess [16:21 - 16:21]
you

Chad [16:21 - 16:55]
know, like you're saying, I think you said uh in one of your, your posts, I know you gave a good debrief. So if anybody hasn't checked out just online instagram will definitely uh throw a link in a podcast description. Um But like maybe if you guys can give me some sense of like, the training leading up to the race. I know you guys, I mean you're consistently training, I know you have multiple different races throughout the season, but maybe if you can sort of just give us a little bit of background on on what training was like up to this race, specifically how it was going, all that sort of stuff, and we'll jump into the race details after that.

Jess [16:55 - 17:02]
Yeah. Um I think Mark, why don't you talk about like, how you structured my training

Mark [17:02 - 17:03]
and

Jess [17:03 - 17:05]
then I can talk about the emotional side of it.

Mark [17:06 - 19:29]
Yeah, so like with any training program, we definitely kind of map out some of those key races throughout the year and kind of what the targets are for those. And I think when we looked at the year, like Ironman Canada was definitely probably the like a plus race of the year, um Jess has been like having a fantastic year, like um within our training group, especially we've been able to cultivate like a really good group like myself Jess and one of her fellow um training partners, Alison have really like, we've been able to push each other as like a small group, a bunch this year to to really get better. So, um we had Ironman Canada kind of on the schedule there and then early in the year we knocked off like a key block of like running races and just made some like huge gains in running this year just from like chasing myself and Allison a bunch like took five minutes off for half marathon PB and ran like 1 19 which was like huge when she had run 1 24 the year before. So like we got the ball rolling early and like a lot of that early time of the year is run focus um and doubling down on that and then we really got into like try fitness after that. So um a couple of key races along the way, we did american triple T, which is a crazy memory race, four day, four times over three days. And it's just this awesome like volume building like camp for a weekend um which kind of spiraled into muscle men which is kind of her first like call it a race of the year, which was 70.3 half Ironman distance. Um And that was her first age group win, that she got it like an Ironman race. Um I think she won Guelph Lake overall on the way there too. So like in terms of like structure of the training, we just kept building to peek at those certain races and then we left enough time for like a very specific Ironman block, that was about um eight weeks after that 70.3 kind of specific block um and yeah, that was just really focused on consistency and building volume over, especially those eight weeks, like it was a very focused on Iron Man, we didn't really race at all during that time and I think it's uh it really paid off when she got to race day of having like amazing base of a good solid eight weeks in there um and maybe I'll shoot it over to just to let her kind of talk about more along the lines of some of her training highlights or tough days that probably like helped her kind of prep for that Ironman Canada Day.

Jess [19:30 - 23:50]
Yeah, one of the, one of the things that I'm not just saying this because he's my husband, but the the way that I love that Mark coaches, that is different than any other triathlon coach I've ever worked with and I have worked with a few others is that, you know, in triathlon, I know it seems insane that we, we train like 15 to 20 hours a week, but you know, a lot of high level triathletes train upwards to like 30 hours in their peak and they do a lot of like long, slow distance, their blocks are very long. So for a lot of triathletes when they hear that we only train 15 to 20 hours, it's an only, it's not a holy smoke sets a lot and then the fact that I did an eight week training block, um I was like, don't get me wrong, like I was, I was recently training with someone and they're like, wow, I just thought that you were like excited about all training all the time because I was like very reluctant to go on a swim and I was like, no, like for me, it was just, you know, when you have a coach that you trust and you check box is um it's just showing up every single day, committing to the work and getting it done, but I get bored if the training cycle, like I have to say Ironman training is grueling. The race was so much easier than like the training leading up to it, that was the hard part. Um so the fact that he was able to get me ready and I have to say this was the first time I felt ready for an Iron Man, like physically and like psychologically I felt ready and that almost never happens like that he was able to get me there, but I think like when I look back on sort of the highs and the lows, um we'll start with the positive because that's always a good thing to do. Um like some of my best days, there was, there was a day with the night before I ate like a ton of sushi and then the next day I went on a ride and in a headwind was just like, there was a bunch of guys in the group and I was like riding just Ironman Watts, which is how you measure power on the bike, and I was like very self conscious, I was like, oh, like pass me if you need to, and they're like, we're almost falling off the back. And that was a moment for Mark um where he's like, oh my gosh, like she, if she can just hold Ironman Watson do this, she might be able to do damage, and that was like 100 and 80 K. Ride. Um And then the day after that um actually one of the following weeks there was a really low point, so it just shows that you can have a really high high, and then the next weekend I think I had a 200 K. Ride and I made a fueling error and I was vomiting on my bike by 100 K. And I still had 100 K to go. And it was a moment where Mark said to me, he's like don't turn this into a suffer fest, like you can turn around like, and I was like, no you can't quit in an iron man, so it was like 34 degrees, and I was like vomiting and just suffering, but and like I biked out, it was one woman, I had like 50 K left, I just like hung over my bike and I was like, I don't know how I'm gonna do this, but I just did it. Um, and then, um, the day after that though I had a 32 kilometer long run and I crushed it so I'm like, I can rebound doing that. But then the following week I had one where I was feeling so dizzy that I needed to like have a fetal position um, and curl up on the side of the road to reset. So it just shows like training is a journey and um, the reality is the way that Mark and I sort of measure is that, you know, a third of your days, you sort of bucket your, your training days into three different types and he'll, he'll uses a term of measurement. He'll be like, was that a one day? A two day or three day. So if I have a three day, that would be like my Iron Man day, the best day everything is clicking. It's the day of your life. A two day is like, you know, it's, it's just a day you're checking boxes, you're not feeling spectacular, you're not feeling bad and then your one is just, it's a crummy day, it's a day where you're throwing up on your bike. So, um, and it's okay and it's actually important to have days in each one of those buckets. It's just, you can't have too many days in any one of the buckets. So that, that's a little bit about the training, it's just, you know, there was, even though there was spectacular highs and spectacular lows, it really wasn't about, you know, anything extreme. It was just following the plan, checking the boxes, trying to get all those training days in.

Chad [23:51 - 23:54]
No, it's awesome. I love the 123 day thing. That's awesome. I

Jess [23:54 - 23:56]
mean, yeah,

Chad [23:56 - 24:03]
I think someone like, Yeah, that's puking on a 200K. Right? I mean, I would be getting an uber for

Jess [24:03 - 24:04]
sure.

Chad [24:05 - 24:32]
I have to ask though because it sounds like, like what Mark was saying to with the, with the races sounds like the races you were really dialed in. Um is like Mark, is there any sort of strategic way of trying to make sure that the race days are threes versus you know, you might have, you might have a bad day or you might have just an okay day, but it sounds like jess has really hit like every race at like a high level this year.

Mark [24:33 - 27:21]
Yes. Yeah, of course. Like, and that's development as an athlete as well as um like I think when people talk about jess, they would not call her robotic at all. But the true sign of an athlete, especially as they continue to develop is on a race day, they are super predictive and almost robotic when it comes down to it. Like you obviously can't leave emotions out of it. You need to like have that at key moments in the race to make sure you dig deep and you get the most out of yourself, but like in a day, like an iron man, like she's literally almost going robotic for nine hours and then like pushing for that final hour. So when we talk about those 12 and three days, especially in training, this is where you um, look at those one days that really suck and you don't let them like destroy you or get you down or they're not this like snapshot of your current fitness. You're just having a bad day And that's like my role as a coach is to like program the training cause I want though, if the training is appropriate, I think it's good to have training in all three of those buckets because you're getting enough stimulus of days that you're feeling good days, you're feeling crap and balancing all that out to make a good training plan. And then, um, yeah, it's once you learn from those one days that those don't, um, you can still come back from those days, there are days that are tough. But um, if you learn from them and how to improve and then you have those two days you check off and then those three days that are obviously days, you get really fired up and pump you up and you're like, oh man, here's like, what I could do on an amazing day. Um, you start to like learn that on 12 or three days. Like they're really not all that difference in terms of a performance when you come down to a race day, and then obviously when you go into a taper, like an ironman, we do call it like a two week taper where we cut down um training volume and intensity a bit. Um Your likelihood of landing more on a two or three day when that race day comes about is like exponentially higher than having a one day. Um But that also like, I'm sure jess can say like more and I can talk to it as an athlete as well. Like more in my early days, I had a lot more one days on the race course where like, my 12 and three days are all very similar on a race course now, like within minutes. Um And it was cool when we put in her, like gold times on training peaks ahead of time. Like, she literally nailed them to a t like within a 10 hour day, and people say like, so many things can go wrong in an iron man, but like she showed how, if your coach is down, then knows what you're capable of, the athlete believes in it and knows how to execute that. You can actually be very predictable on a day like that, and well predictability doesn't sound sexy necessarily clearly yield some damn good results when you look at it. So, yeah, that's the recipe you got to put together,

Chad [27:23 - 28:07]
I mean, I was gonna say that, I think it is impressive about internal sports and how predictable, how, how you can actually predict something where it seems like it's such a long period of time where so many things could go wrong because there's so many things that are under your control. But for a sport it does feel pretty predictable. Which is, I guess, which is uh, kudos to the amazing coaches like you and other people that are sort of, you know, in the sport. Um but yes, let's dive into the race. Let's let's here. But I want to maybe jess Mark feel free to jump in when you want, but break down the swim the bike, the run, how things were going. You know, just give us highlights. Lowlights, Anything you think is important. I want to hear it. I want to, I want to be in Mark's shoes.

Jess [28:08 - 29:31]
Okay. Um well, what's cool about this race? Like I have to say I've been an Iron Man start lines where I just wanted to throw up like I was just feeling so uncomfortable, so nervous, so like you almost get this nervous energy because you're so, you know how much the day is going to hurt, You know how hard it's gonna be. But I had such intense training and such like realistic Iron Man training days leading in like I felt so prepared that I didn't have negative anxious energy, if that makes sense. Um so leading into the day, um I was talking to some of my training partners and they're saying like even a couple weeks out, I started narrowing my focus, I was talking a little less in workouts, I was almost getting in that race headspace as I was entering into those weeks. So race morning, I was just so focused, it wasn't even a nervous energy. Um and like Mark said, I am anything but robotic, but race morning absolutely robotic. I just went through every single motion. I knew what I was supposed to do, whereas I was supposed to be when and just started from the moment that I woke up controlling everything I could control um staying super calm and sort of in this moment of like super grateful to just be there and um it's weird, I knew it was gonna be a great day before it even started and I don't even know how to explain, it was just the head space was so spot on, I was exactly where I needed to be.

Chad [29:31 - 29:40]
Did you do things, did you do things like work on that? Like was it like you purposely did different things or you just like you just woke up and you felt good and just kind of continue the momentum?

Jess [29:40 - 30:34]
It's funny because I think as like talking about um referencing what Mark said earlier, but just being an athlete a really long time, I think that you build out these habits that you don't even realize you're preparing you, but you just do them automatically. I was saying to him that I kind of got chills after the race because I had this like very weird, like any time I was on like a very boring run um where it was just me and my own thoughts, I just had this like little visualization that I would go to to pass the time and it was just like of me like winning a marathon and it had no like, and I wasn't even comparing it to the Iron Man, but, and then we'll get to the run. But like I kind of got like holy smokes chills when it was over cause I'm like, I visualized all of this. Like I, I visualized the screaming and I didn't even know what I was doing. Um so I was kind of like got into that like, I don't know like champion mindset.

Chad [30:34 - 30:35]
Yeah,

Jess [30:35 - 32:30]
And I think that that's the best way to describe it. I was, I was in flow state for like 10 hours and I was just, I had practiced it, I was ready. I was just so locked in when I stepped in the water and it was just um I was said it was like a celebration of all the hard work that I had done it. I didn't put a ton of pressure. I just, I knew what I needed to do and I was just doing it. Um so I I didn't let snags get in the way, so the water was, you know, swim is my weakest sport. Um I was planning on maybe swimming at best a 108. I've been at the pool about three days a week. Um and then, you know, just hoping for the best and then I was going to scrap my way to the top which is normally like I'm chasing all day. I'm not normally first out of the water by any means. Um but the water was super calm, like the temperature of the day was perfect, like everything was perfect. It's one of those days where Mark Marko said to me at the beginning, he's like, the only thing that can happen that is going to mess you up is you getting in your own way. So the whole day I'm like, just stay out of your own way. Um So I tried to cite perfectly on the swim um tried to keep out of people's way, tried to find feet so, and swim, you can draft behind people and it actually makes like a 20% Like less effort. So try to save my energy and I've got to say coming under the water, I almost choked because I looked down at my watch and it was like, 0104 and I couldn't even dream of swimming that fast. Like the exponential jump, I don't, I don't think even mark was expecting that um, of me. So it was that day, it was in that moment where I'm like, this is the race of my life. Like I am flying today, because normally that's the sport that holds me back and I was already leaving in a really good position. So, um, that was, that was a big moment.

Chad [32:31 - 32:49]
So, in that situation is there time to like celebrating holy sh it, I just like pr and my swim, I'm such a good position. You know, do you, do you let your mind trail off like that or you are like, no ship, I'm not done like this, there's more work to

Jess [32:49 - 32:50]
do, like,

Chad [32:50 - 33:01]
because you can, because you can basically say like, today was today was already a success. I crushed my swim, right? And if I finished where I finished at least I'll look back and I had a great swim.

Jess [33:01 - 34:17]
Well, you, here's the thing about triathlon is you can't separate out the sports, you can have a darn good swim and a darn good run and a really terrible triathlon. So people are like, oh yeah, I was on track for X, but you didn't finish, it's like saying that you're on track for something of a time for a marathon and crumbling at 32 km. The race starts at 32 km. It's how you put it all together. So, yes, I had a moment of like, and you can see it in my race photos, I got a big old smile on my face when I come out of the water, but instead of using that as motivation to stop, I'm just like, let it feed me of being like, yeah, like, check now, let's do the next thing and then the, the transition is the next thing, you got to keep it smooth. Um, and, you know, you've got to really slow down. Um, so often in transition, especially when I was new, I would just be almost frantic with it and when you're frantic with it, you drop things or you forget things. So, I almost, what felt like taking it too slow, I had my, like, fastest transition because it was, you know, making sure you're placing things, you're getting the right helmet, you're getting your bike, you're getting like, all the things, so you're fully prepared by the time you get out on the bike course. So, um, that was great,

Chad [34:17 - 34:39]
like, now that you see, jess just crushed her, like, you see, jess crushed her swim, right? And is this where, like, the day kicks off in this dress and, and excitement, like, it's like, holy sh it, like, do you now, at this point, it's like, do you anticipate? And do you feel like, okay, like, this is the day?

Mark [34:39 - 35:51]
So, I was definitely fired up from her swim. Um, I had done a run out like the 1st 10 k of the bike course and then I was turning back around and I had my phone with me, so like, when I saw her swim and I saw bronwen leading out of the water and the rest of the crew all had like awesome swims, I was just like jumping up and down and my pace on the run was going way faster than I should have been going cause I was just um so fired up and like, she was at that point, I think sixth in her age group and like 25th female overall, which usually she's like way further down in the standings at that point. So I was like, oh man, like this is a good spot to start and like, I think, yeah, just catapulted the rest of it and as we kind of jump along, I can keep giving my thoughts of, kind of what I thought was the potential of the day, but like, even ahead of the race, like, I, I knew she was on track for something special, I'd done some recon and not told her about it about like who was in her age group and like, like who our main competitors are gonna be and where they were in the race and like, I know there's not many people that could run with jess, so like, I knew she was already in a great spot, like after that swim, just knowing like what I knew before the race. So um yeah, like what a good setup for the day and she just catapulted it off of that.

Chad [35:51 - 35:55]
So she was around like 25th coming out of the swim. Yes

Mark [35:55 - 36:09]
yeah, correct. 25th female overall. And then she was like sixth in her age group at that point where usually she's like 20th or 30th or something in her age group at that point, or like 150th female overall. Like it was this was a huge spot to be after this one.

Chad [36:09 - 36:23]
25th, the first. That seems like a massive climb you were saying before that you usually used to chasing. I mean assuming you're even further down that like, is that quite common to jump that many spots with that many different sports? Just because it's a long race. Yeah.

Mark [36:23 - 37:13]
You know, in a long iron man like that, Like you can definitely jump a lot, like it's a crazy long day and that you can, you can lose it in the swim but you definitely like can't win it there. Um So like even in transition, like she jumped 10 spots in transition. Like she downplayed it as if she's just like cruised through transition and took her time. But like I always say to the people in our club, we're not going to be the people that lose time and transition? Like this is something that you don't need to forge any extra fitness to get extra speed out of like just take the time, learn how to do it quickly and efficiently and do it smooth and you're gonna gain time on people. Like she jumped from 26 to 16th overall just in transition and that's a two minute transition. Like people are taking 456 minutes in there, like you advance yourself 10 positions that took no extra fitness, like

Chad [37:13 - 37:14]
you

Mark [37:14 - 37:29]
can jump pretty quickly in it and like by 23 K on the bike, she's like fourth overall and third in her age group, bronwen was leading the race at that point. Like, yeah, I was pumped up when our ladies their 1st and 4th overall and I know they're the strongest two bikers, it's pretty cool moment.

Chad [37:29 - 37:40]
That's great because we have brought one on the podcast too and I know that she's got a great swimmer, so it's awesome that yeah, the whole crew is there. So yeah, so you transition and you're jumping the bike and is biking your strength, would you say?

Jess [37:41 - 39:51]
No, I'd say running is my top strength biking is my second. Um and Mark and I have worked really hard in the past, like we've adjusted our strategy a little bit with me this year, is that in the past I because I knew I was a good runner and that was it, I was almost protecting all day to make sure that I could like let go on the run, but then I would find that I would have like really terrible bikes compared to the rest of the field and I'm like, I know I'm better than this. So, this year in particular, Mark was like, jess, we're going to try something new, I don't care how bad your run is, you are going to bike your brains out and which is normally terrible advice for a triathlete, you want to save your legs. So don't try this at home if you're new to triathlon, but he's like, you've earned the right to be able to just go bananas on the bike. So, and that's quite frankly that I won the race the next weekend after he said that I tested out a golf lake and I was like, oh, and then I won my age group and then I won this race. So I think we found a pretty good strategy. Um and I don't even think that I'm that much better of a biker than I was before. I just have been actually like letting myself push a little harder. Um, so, I would say bike is my second, but like Mark said in like the 1st 23 kilometers though, like, and so on the bike, um, I'm not just pedaling. However, I feel you have like a power meter that gives you a number and he sort of gave me the numbers that I should be pedaling at to sustain over the five ish hours that I'm out there. Um so I was just following my numbers, just focusing on, I have it to beep every, you know, 15 minutes. So I would be, you know, eating drinking a strategy I took this race was I did a lot more liquid nutrition. So in the past I'd have a little bit of solid and liquid, but this one I used morton. Um so in the past I've had gut issues. I've actually like vomited on the bike in a race because my gut flipped. Um this race I, you know, tried morton. Um I did 300 g of carbohydrate bottles. So that's like a lot of grams of carbohydrates. And then I had about 100 g 100 g of candies. So

Chad [39:52 - 39:53]
morton

Jess [39:53 - 39:58]
is like uh Mark, maybe you can explain it better than I can. Yeah,

Mark [39:58 - 40:05]
it's just like a high carb like hydrogel type of powder that you put in the drink and it's got like

Chad [40:05 - 40:07]
sugar dextrose.

Mark [40:08 - 40:23]
I think it's multi dexter in end. I want to say, I forget what the exact combo is, but it's like the dual transport ones, because you need like the little transport to like be able to take on that many parts an hour or so.

Chad [40:23 - 40:24]
Okay,

Jess [40:25 - 40:40]
No, I was aiming for about 70 g of carbohydrates an hour, which which is like you want to and, and the strategy on the bike is you want to get as many grams in as you can because you've taken it a little less at the run. So really you're fueling your run. When you're on the bike,

Chad [40:40 - 40:46]
you struggle in the past to take down the fuel on the bike. Like just because your stomach or

Jess [40:47 - 41:08]
um, no, I've taken it down. It's just cause stomach troubles on the run, which slowed me down. Like I felt like I never ran an iron man to my potential before because you know, to be like frank, it was porta potty stops and that's all within your times when you are looking at the, at the overall run. Um, and I wanted to avoid, that

Chad [41:08 - 41:19]
was always the amount of like carbs. I know you guys burn a lot of carbs, but it's just like the amount of gels and candies and stuff that you have to digest is just like, oh my God,

Jess [41:19 - 41:21]
your gut can be trained in the same way that I

Chad [41:21 - 41:33]
was, I was just gonna say like it probably takes a few races to get to because I imagine if I went out there, My stomach would just be yelling at me. But yes, after 10, 15 times, I'm sure you adapt.

Jess [41:34 - 41:50]
Yeah. And you train it in training, like you use your fueling strategy on long training days as well. So you've had like dozens and dozens of days that you've practiced it and then you tweak and I've learned, you know, you don't drink the whole thing of coke in the middle of a bike ride very quickly. That's a terrible idea

Chad [41:50 - 41:54]
what's the go to candy. We got fuzzy peaches candy.

Jess [41:54 - 42:04]
So mine is something called fruitful. They're almost like my training is called them slugs. They go down really easy and four of them is 33 g of carbohydrates, so they're brilliant.

Chad [42:04 - 42:06]
Okay, you have a favorite?

Mark [42:07 - 42:11]
I'm a fuzzy peaches guy for sure. Do

Chad [42:11 - 42:14]
you see anybody like hanging like liquor out of their mouth or?

Mark [42:14 - 42:19]
No, I haven't seen that yet, but I would, I wouldn't be opposed to trying it. That's for sure.

Jess [42:19 - 42:20]
Fruit by the foot,

Chad [42:20 - 42:39]
you know, just have this like Anyways. Anyways, more serious talk. Um the bike, Yes. So how did, how did, how did the bike go? Like I was like it was a fast track or I know you guys talk about sometimes the track can be difficult was the condition is pretty good for the bike

Jess [42:39 - 44:27]
missions were perfect. So it's the first like 65 K are downhill um or very, very fast. So my problem is, and and this is where I, I thought I was going to have a wrinkle of the day um is that I have actually like a bulging disc in my back um which gives me like a bit of sciatic pain um depending, especially when I ride arrow a long time because spoiler alert, triathlon isn't great for your back when you look at, you know, being hunched over on your bike for that long. So at around 65 K, I just started feeling like garbage, like cramped up. Um which is why hilly courses are really great for me because right around 65 K, there's like about a seven kilometer climb up in the mountains. Um and that actually helped reset. It's a different position. Um it's the bike course is where I need to be hunched over for like the full five and a bit hours that really just destroy me. So, um, I was really happy I could reset there. Um and, and I would say for most of the bike ride, I was able to hold my watts. Like I normally you trail down a little bit, there was one moment where I struggled a little bit right after the second climb at about 100 and 10 kilometers where there was a headwind and I felt kind of like garbage and I let my wattage slip like a little bit for maybe, I don't know, five or six k, but it was right in that overpass in the mountain where someone yelled out there, like they started yelling at my placing, they're like, you're the third female we see. And then I was like, what? Like I'm top three in this race, like, and that was the first moment that I'm like, wow, like I might do well and then all of a sudden it changed to like, your second in the race and I knew I hadn't seen Bronwyn who is like you had mentioned it earlier. Like she's an absolute mermaid.

Chad [44:27 - 44:28]
She went to like

Jess [44:28 - 44:49]
trials, like she's like the best swimmer I've ever met. Um and like very like Mark said like her and I would hope do the strongest bike legs of the day. I'm like she's the only one that would be in front of me. So I'm like this is crazy. Like L. P. Girls are dominating this race. Like Mark must be losing his mind right

Mark [44:49 - 44:53]
now.

Chad [44:53 - 45:35]
So like you're so the biggest thing, I mean because I don't do endurance and I'm sure people that do endurance, like they probably just like, oh my God, roll your eyes at me when I ask these questions. But like what are you like there's so much time, especially on the bike. Like what do you think? Like are you dialed in all the time? I know you said you had the beeper thing, you have to do your fueling. Like honestly, like how much time are you sitting there just thinking about things like you know what I have to pick up the grocery store after this or whatever to do? Like do you allow your mind to wander outside of the race or like is it like purely just so much focus ST on like you on the bike and everything else that could be exhausted too.

Jess [45:35 - 46:19]
It's true um in training and maybe a little less focused, but I have to say in a race. No, I am fully dialed in that full time I'm thinking about because it's in those moments, if you start letting your your mind shift, that's when your cadence goes off. That's where your positioning goes off. Like you actually, it's a full time job to monitor, like is my head in the right position, so I'm getting the most arrow. Am I like, am I eating? Am I pedaling properly? Am I going through eight stations smoothly? Like you're always being, how can I optimize what I'm doing right now to go as fast as I can and not slip And because I was able to stay in that state the entire time, I think that that's why I had the bike I did is that I didn't, you can't let it slip. So,

Chad [46:19 - 46:26]
and then you find you find out your third. So you're just like, okay, I need to hunt down the next person then the next person and that's your race, basically.

Jess [46:26 - 46:56]
Actually, yes and no. Um the most important thing that you can do when you're doing an ironman is be patient and that's the cool thing about having an awesome coach is that I know what I'm supposed to do, it actually doesn't matter, were 1st and 2nd are what matters is that I follow my wattage numbers and I execute on my plan because the reality is if I do that, I'm not gonna burn the matches. So that once I get to the run, they're they're in trouble. I'm gonna hunt them down. So like, I'm not hunting on the bike, I'm just executing my

Chad [46:56 - 46:57]
plan.

Jess [46:58 - 47:12]
Yeah. Well, but that's Yeah, well, but that's how you lose races is when you start getting emotional. I check my emotions at the door when I race. Like I said, I'm like, I can be emotional, but not when I'm racing, I'm a robot.

Chad [47:12 - 47:43]
And so I always hear about like, there's certain, almost very specific times in races that like everyone talks about like where there's a marathon, it's like, okay, like be aware of the 35 K. It gets rocky there. Like everyone always talks about certain times in races where it's just like, it's uh a down point. Do you have those? And did you have, were they different on this one? Like you said 65 K. Your back was sort of sore. Is that normal for you? Around 65 K? Or is it really pendant on the course?

Jess [47:44 - 48:27]
It's dependent on the course that one was, it was way too early for me to feel that. Um So, but I didn't let I didn't give it much negative energy. I'm like, cool. Well, you've already had a really great day. So just manage it. Keep like, your only job, it goes back to that whole comment of like, I might not be the best of a lot of things, but I can suffer. Probably more than most, so I'm like, I don't care how much it hurts, I'm gonna hold my power. Um and that's your job today, even if it hurts. So, because I also know once I get onto the run I can reset, so I'm like, this could be 4.5 hours of agony, but you're going to just suck it up and go. Um But thankfully I didn't need to do that, so then it was like, I just was able to just fully enjoy the bike ride and just was like grateful that it didn't get worse.

Chad [48:27 - 48:30]
Where did you end up at the end of the bike then?

Jess [48:31 - 49:10]
So by the end of the bike, I finished in second place, so um 2nd overall. And I knew so Bronwyn was about five minutes in front of me. Um but she saw me and I was like shoot because now like she knows where I am. So she she put the she she put on the pressure a little bit, so I think she was like, Mark, like 6.5 minutes ahead of me by the time that I got on the run. Um So then I did another really fast transition and actually, maybe it will stop because we did say that Mark would be able to give his thoughts on my bike.

Mark [49:11 - 49:56]
Um Yeah, I don't have too much more to note on that, like it was for the tracking, there was no tracking from like 100 and 6 to 180 k. So like, I knew jess was in, I think second or third at that final tracking. So like, that's where, when we realized there was no tracking for like another two hours, it was like, just hold your breath and pray. They both have good, like, they were both riding well, so like, I felt like they were both going to ride well to the end and um as always they had good mechanical luck and no flats or bikes falling apart that they were going to be in good shape, but when the tracker goes black for two hours and you can't watch and your two ladies are like, 1st and 2nd or 1st and 3rd in the race, like you're just holding your breath and waiting for them to get off the bike and I was just waiting at the end of that run course.

Chad [49:56 - 50:00]
What did you do to pass the time where you're like, pacing back and forth, like, driving yourself crazy.

Mark [50:00 - 50:15]
Yeah, yeah, I might have indulged a couple beverages to, they were going down way too smooth with how excited I was, I just wanted to get them on the run and be able to cheer them in person versus just waiting

Chad [50:15 - 50:34]
and at that point, like, they're in the, and I said they're at the top of the race at that point, is that when you're like, yeah, this is like, because because like, just saying like, her running with her strength, so you already knew that this was gonna not be a walk in the park by any means, but like, you knew that she was in contention to really crush the day.

Mark [50:35 - 51:42]
Yeah, totally. When, especially once I finally got the splits that both of them were off the bike, Bronwyn and jess, I was like, oh man, this is gonna be like a really good day. Cause I know they both can like run super well, like that's just his strength, bronwen has worked on hers a lot this year and didn't quite get the run she deserved on that day, but she'll be back at it, she's hungry. Um But yeah, I knew it was gonna be like a pretty special day at that point, just because they also had like another 5 to 10 minutes on like the people behind them. Um So I really just wanted to see how they came around that first corner on the run and how they were both looking and when I saw they both were looking like great as they came around that first corner. Um I knew it was definitely gonna be a, a pretty good one, so you obviously got to hold it together for a whole marathon so you can't get get too ahead of yourself, but I know just what she's done in Ironman marathons before. Like I think the worst, she's run is like 3 31 which is like typically a top couple female run split and I know she had improved on the run and she felt good and was riding the momentum of an amazing day. Like I was like, oh man, I think she's she's primed for a really good one here.

Chad [51:42 - 51:56]
Yeah, so just like at the end of the end of the bike, how were you feeling at that point? Like, were you feeling fairly fresh, like any, any different than any other sort of race, you're just feeling, you know, you're trying to get in transition? But

Jess [51:57 - 56:32]
yeah, I was like, I had two very disappointing Iron Man's last year and where I just felt terrible coming off the bike and they both for their own reasons were sort of like demoralizing moments, so like, it's, I think it's important, like not every race is a mountaintop moment and I definitely have had my share that weren't um so coming off the bike, I, there's like the last 20 k into the transition almost downhill. So I was flying like 50 60 kilometers an hour down a hill and then into town is a bit of a false flat, but I was where I was like, I am, I am flying because people were, I was passing guys consistently, no one was passing me, so I'm like, I must be feeling much better than the people around me and this is the bike, so I got on the run and it felt like I hadn't swam or biked, like I just felt so fresh and like so good, and then it was like in the 1st 500 m I saw Mark and like, just seeing him was such a boost. Um and then in the first kilometer there's um like a huge hill and like, Mark had like worked on the strategy a lot with me before that, and he's like, if you are running faster than six minutes per kilometer up that hill, you're going too fast, like, you're gonna burn yourself out. So just like, again, it goes back to executing on the plan and then the 1st 10 k um is like this really, it's a slow gravel section. Um and it's sort of like a gravel trail with a slight incline for the first five k, and then you get you get a decline on the way back, so just like, because you feel good right way, because you're like, oh thank goodness, I'm running just holding yourself back, not running too hard, because like, there's so many places where you're not gonna win the race, but you could lose the race. So just being patient. Um at that point, like, it was exciting to hear, like, I the people were yelling like how much time I kept your like, your your four minutes behind your three minutes behind, like, and I started hearing that. So, um probably at about it was the turnaround at five K, where Bronwyn was coming towards me and I was running out and like we're teammates, right? So um we always joke with LP especially the ladies that it's like i if anyone's gonna beat me, I want it to be you um sort of thing, like we really are like super supportive, which I think is what is the specialness of this community so often in competitive sports um you can sort of beat up over each other to try and get the win and and I think we have such an incredible respectful community and such like a mutual respect for all each other, so um like we had nothing but pure happiness for each other and which is awesome um and it was a boost to be able to see her um and then probably about a kilometer later at the aid station um I passed her, we gave a high five and then um I swapped out for the lead cyclist, which I found out after the races jen Annett, who's like a Canadian professional triathlete, like I had no idea while she was behind me um but I ended up getting like the world's best cyclist because she, she has had the lead cyclist before, so she knew exactly what she would need to do for me um and then like holy smokes, that's when like the best part of my day started as like being in front, it's almost like when you win, you keep winning because um like coming around the corner after this huge downhill at about 10-K. You need to snake through the city, the city and I was just so unprepared for people to be lined like eight deep and it was like a sound tunnel of people just screaming and I realized like, oh my God, they're screaming that I'm first like what what a moment. Like I I actually kind of got a lump in my throat like tears were pricking my eyes because I was so like unprepared for the crowd support and then um the lead cyclist had like a megaphone and a siren and was like a sign that said lead female. So all along the course, she'd be like, alright everyone and like just like hype up the crowd. So I'm like, how can you not even when you feel bad, I have my own personal hype woman with me the rest of this race. Um and she was like, clearing way for me. Like, I'm like, wow. Like if you that's where I said, if you if you start winning, you keep winning because they make it that way. Um and I was just like, I kept looking down and I'm like, okay, like Mark might kill me because I'm going much faster than we had talked about. But I also was riding the

Chad [56:32 - 56:34]
adrenaline at that point, right

Jess [56:34 - 57:14]
adrenaline and excitement and also I was just feeling so good, so I'm like, you know what, I'm just gonna see how it, like, I didn't, I wasn't stupid about it. Like I really, I ran within my range of what was reasonable, I wasn't running like my actual marathon pace, but I was probably running about 10 seconds fast, 10 to 20 seconds faster per kilometer, depending on which one kilometer. Um But I I heard you asked earlier about like times that you need to feel good versus bad, I have this a wise person who's been in the sport a long time once said like, you should feel good in an iron man up until the half marathon

Chad [57:14 - 57:15]
point.

Jess [57:15 - 58:23]
If you feel bad before then you've gone too hard. So I'm like, interesting, so I weirdly like hung on to that, so I was just like flying through the first half marathon, um I saw Mark around the half marathon and like, we just kind of were like, oh my God, look at this. Um and then that's kind of like where you head into the second part, which is like, that's where the full day out there adds up and then all of those, if you've made some emotional decisions if you started chasing people, um you did anything stupid, that's when it shows up because you can kind of fake a first half, but the second half is where it gets real, so in the second half, yeah, just kept focusing on my nutrition strategy and then, yeah, it did start hurting, but I didn't fade that much. Like the crowd support was ridiculous. And then also, I just I do attribute it to the fact that for past Iron Man's, I wasn't able just because of Covid to do strength all the way through consistently. I I wasn't able to do strength consistently, but because I did it this time, I didn't have the same breakdown, so I don't know like Mark, what were you thinking over this time?

Mark [58:23 - 59:24]
Yeah, I was obviously going crazy and I think the beer count might have been at about eight at that point because they were just now, I knew things were really going and she was flying, so I was way too excited. But yeah, I just like, the base you had created that year of like, run speed plus the strength plus the nutrition like, it was just, we finally had, I knew we had finally mastered the recipe in that moment, which was so cool to like, and like, that same recipe could not work on another day, like, you were just having that perfect day. So like, it was just so cool to see like you get the day you deserve and like that I thought you've had in you for like, many years before this. So it was, it was definitely a a sigh moment for me of like, oh my goodness, it's finally here and there wasn't much sign, it was mostly loud cheering and jumping up and down and high fiving and man, she had the best crowd support of like anybody, even though like Lead guys that were going by, people are going 10 times crazier for her. It was like a crazy I've never seen before in travel on this while.

Chad [59:24 - 60:01]
I have to ask, like, do you guys talk about motivation? Like, I know that some people, uh you know, they they want their significant other or their crew to be at, you know, 35 K. Exactly, or like, there's certain points in the race where you know that you're at a law and you need some sort of motivation. Like, do you do you look for that motivation jess obviously in this case, like you're getting it without asking for it. I mean, you deserve it because your first place, but it seems like motivation really carried you a lot at the end normally on a race, would you be seeking that motivation? Do you have sort of specific places of motivation?

Jess [60:02 - 60:41]
I think, No, I mean, it's amazing to have the crowd support and that was such a bonus, and that's where I say if you win, you keep winning. But I point back to that 200 km bike ride where marks, like, you can quit and I'm like, no, like, you can't quit. And so I think that's inside me when I'm racing is like, it's assuming that it could be a bad day. Um I don't know that the motivation needs to come from inside, if I need external motivation then I'm gonna crumble at 35 K. Regardless because mark, that might not be there. Um you need to be super hungry for it yourself. So I could be my own hype woman when I have to be

Chad [60:41 - 60:42]
okay. I

Mark [60:42 - 62:00]
think that's something that's like learned over time too, is like, I could say in the early part of my career, like I and just would have been the same way you're looking for that external stuff. And like, you think about when you're a newer runner, like, you're almost finding ways to like disconnect from the workouts by like wearing things like headphones, like a lot of newer runners wear headphones where you look like elite runners and stronger runners, like are wearing headphones, they don't want to be disconnected from the moment, they want to be in the moment for all of it and they have control of it themselves as they built this like, these different mental tools to be able to dig inside themselves deep when, when it comes down to crunch time and everybody has different tactics, like um like, personally I use stuff of like pretending people are like talking like crap about me, they're like, oh, you're, this guy is like not a very good biker, not a very good runner, like, and that gets me fired up where like someone like jess would look for different um internal motivation, but I think, yeah, if you're looking for that external stuff, like, and it's not there for you, then it's like a crutch for you to give up or or find a way to drop out. And I think you hold yourself a lot more accountable when you build your internal tools mentally to to dig deep in those moments, and I don't need anybody to hold your hand through the finish line. So go get it yourself.

Chad [62:01 - 62:41]
Yeah, I think that that that's where a lot of my questions are coming from today. I think too, because like, I've always thought endurance sport, um I want to put a percentage on it, but it's gotta be 50 50 mental versus physical, like, I know that you put your body through a lot, but like, because of the amount of time and going back to what you're saying before jess and how focused and dialed you are in for that amount of time versus letting your mind drift. It's a lot of mental strain and volume of just staying in the moment and it's super impressive and how mentally strong you are, that's clearly one of your superpowers against some of the other people in the field, for sure.

Jess [62:41 - 63:25]
Yeah, I mean, I've worked a long time at it. I used to when Mark and I first started dating I definitely was a very different person. I remember a moment where he said sign me up for a race and I was so nervous about it. I was like weeping in my hot yoga class the day before. Like I was so nervous. I just like the idea of pressure and now like I'm a completely different beast where I'm just like bring that pressure. I want it, make it hard, like I don't care. And and I think it's like years and years and years of of building up that confidence that I don't care what the day throws me, I'm gonna be okay because I I have enough tools that I can problem solve and I've worked on the fitness and it's just I think it just comes down to confidence. Um And and that that doesn't happen overnight

Chad [63:25 - 63:39]
going the mindset I guess. So the end of the race um I assume is I guess the hardest part of the race. I mean, you know when you're so close, but yet you're you know so far, I guess like how did the last last few k go for you?

Jess [63:40 - 65:53]
Um painful. Like I know my speed looked okay, but I was like, I was making like birthing noises in the last three days. Like I just needed a finish line and just like gutting it out. You go to a different, like placing your mind in order to just get there because your body does start screaming. I don't want to paint it any sort of picture that I just sort of like magically floated through the marathon, like it got ugly at the end, it hurts so bad. Um But I did like I did have moments in that race where I'm like, you know what this this might be the only time in your life that you're gonna win an iron man, so I don't care how much it hurts, just make sure your present enough to just soak it all in, so like making sure like I took the time to like high five kids who are on the side um and like even though I wasn't smiling anymore, I was kind of grimacing but like it was you know, doing everything I could to get to that finish line. So yeah, it it hurt I needed to dig deep but I didn't I didn't need that internal motivation sometimes in the same way as if I'm out there alone. Like the crowd was just going wild especially because they knew I was so close so they kind of carried me in and then also knowing like, I don't know like it's so cool to have your husband coach you um so that you have the double whammy, like you always want to make your coach proud but when it's your life partner to like just wanting to make him proud with my time and knowing he was like, I don't know, I I couldn't wait to get to the finish line to look at him, like, oh my God, look what we did. So um yeah, it was it was a it was a gritty last five K, but it was also like, I still remember every single one of them and like, they cherish them and breaking the tape was the coolest thing, like the announcement and being able to be on that carpet and like, I broke the tape earlier, Marcus holding, I broke the tape earlier this year um in a race and I just like, I'm such a newbie at winning races that I like, just ran through it and I'm actually really glad I had that moment of Mark teasing me and being like, wow, we need to work on this. Like, you need to hold it over your because I like almost did a show of it, but the pictures we got were unbelievable. So, like, we're definitely framing some of those. Yeah,

Chad [65:53 - 66:25]
there are some cool shots. I mean, that's amazing. Yeah, I mean, I have that, I have to ask, you mentioned a few times, like, I think you guys are quite the dynamic duo, right? Like, both elite athletes partners in life coach athlete, like, I would I would love to dive into like, how do you, how do you like, it sounds like you're a great team. How do you manage this? Like, is it did it start as a shared passion? Is it become a shared, obviously it's it's a huge part of your life now, but like

Jess [66:26 - 66:26]
how

Chad [66:26 - 66:41]
do you guys go at it without, you know killing each other or you know like oftentimes it's you know you spend a lot of time with your partner, so it's like I know you guys are spending a lot of time with your partner in difficult circumstances,

Mark [66:41 - 69:36]
I think I can, I can kick this one off and I can let just jump in after to fill in the void or scold me on anything that exactly, but like for those that don't know our story, like we met when we were like 25 ish and um like it was through, we met at like a running race, so like we already kind of had that shared passion for endurance, which is I think why we hit it off so much is like we realized, oh wait, I can go on like six hour bike rides or 30 K runs on the weekend and not get like not of my partner, like sad about it, my partner is pumped and we're hanging out and we're having like to this day jess and I still have probably some of our like best bonding time or best like conversations about life work training, like on these runs or rides that were on um so yeah, like shared passion, that part of it is definitely easy um like when in our early part of triathlon, like I've only been coaching her now for, I think it's just over three years. Um so we both had different coaches at the time and I really wanted her to, when I started coaching her to actually like come to me at that point and be like, hey I want you to coach me because I wanted to like make sure that I had proven myself first, Like she's always been a like high caliber athlete, like in the endurance world since I've worked with her, so I like felt like I needed to kind of earn that spot and I wanted her to fully trust in it too. So like, and even in the early parts of our like career, both training together as well as coaching together, like we've definitely, we butted heads a little bit more like we hadn't got down our communication um pieces around like training and like everything, we all of our conversations, like we're very blended and that like if I was trying to talk to her something about training, like it was being misconstrued as like an attack on the relationship where like, I was really like just having my coach hat on and like that's really evolved over the last number of years where she knows like sure there's gonna be some moments and it's often when we're just tired or hungry, where we're at each other, like for the most part we're very like civil and don't fight very much and can put our differences aside pretty quickly, so like um yeah, she can tell like when I'm like when I'm putting up the mirror to her, holding her accountable for something around like training, it's not an attack on her relationship and it doesn't change how much I love her as like a wife. Um it's just me trying to get the most out of her as an athlete. So I think it's that part is how to develop as she has as an athlete. Like it takes time with anything and takes a couple of speed bumps along the way. But um yeah, it's uh we we love doing it together and it's some of our favorite time. So like I think we're good at realizing that in the moment and realizing these could be like our glory days and that we're living it right now. So we're living it to the fullest and having fun with it. So maybe just has more to add around kind of the dynamic and and how we made it work.

Jess [69:36 - 70:14]
Well, it's more just like, yeah, so at the beginning it was definitely like a little bit of a challenge. I set up this like transition structure for us um where Mark would on friday nights or Sundays, he would get a coaching conversation with me and he could, he would have one section of the week where he could bring anything coaching related and I would come as an athlete, not as his girlfriend at the time, but then to help the transition, I got a slot on friday night where Mark need to come as my boyfriend, We got to talk about anything I wanted to but of our relationship

Mark [70:14 - 70:15]
feeling friday,

Jess [70:15 - 70:16]
yeah.

Mark [70:16 - 70:18]
Feeling friday, really

Jess [70:18 - 71:11]
friday. Yeah. So we had a great feeling friday stretch for a while, but then eventually we just adapted and like now it's it's funny how, you know, at the end of the day, like I get to live with someone who, um, is my coach and life partner who wants me to be better in every single way. Um, and so how cool is that? Like, he's not telling me what I want to hear. He holds up a mirror and shows me how I'm showing up. And I would say his coaching doesn't just like, it's not just, you know, workouts. He also just helps me be a better person not to get all mushy, but like that's how we make it work. Is that it's the best way. Like I'm like, I would never not want to be married to someone who's like, like being married to a coach is the best thing in the world. You have a built in cheerleader and person who's like holding you accountable. Like I that's what I want in life. So, um, I'd say we're making it work. It's pretty great.

Chad [71:11 - 71:41]
So yeah, I think Mark, you answered that fairly well fairly well. I think most people listening that, I mean I have to ask like, what are your days like? So you're full time coach? Mark, just your, your director and communications, like how do you ensure that you are getting the amount of volume in? Um You both obviously are busy folks. Is it easier because you both have the shared passion? Like how do you make sure, how do you prioritize that you're getting this stuff in?

Jess [71:41 - 72:43]
Get up early? Um because some of my work weeks are like, my work weeks are like 70 hours on average. So like I work a lot, a lot, a lot. So up at like 4 35 to make sure that all my training is in. Um and then go to work and then come home and work out again and then go to sleep. And that is my life when I'm in a training block, which is why training for an Ironman over the summer was hard. I didn't make a lot of sacrifices for it. It wasn't just like all fun and games. Um and that's also why we cycle in and out because I don't want to paint it that we have this like monk like existence where we have so fun. Um but we phase it in and we're really intentional about different seasons um throughout the year. Um because I think to make anything like, especially any sort of like athletic lifestyle sustainable, you have to be able to have, you know, cycles of like fun and recovery with, with cycles of just like pure focus and sending it, but I don't know, Mark, do you have anything else you want to say about your day to day?

Mark [72:44 - 73:29]
No, my obviously have a little bit more flexibility than jess and that my, those morning workouts that we're going to, like, I'm often running them as the coach of the workout. So it's kind of a nice combo when you've made your, your passion into your job. It makes things a lot easier. So um yeah, I, I still prefer, like I still have so many of the same Things that I had when I had like a full time structured like 9-5 job is that I love to like get my workouts done and stuff in the morning and then get into my work day right away. I just find you have a much better work day that day when you've knocked off that training and it's not lingering on your mind all day. So um yeah, very similar day to jess and that I like to get up early, do my work during the day and then work out again at night. And

Chad [73:29 - 73:48]
um we didn't talk too much about recovery or nutrition, but like obviously, like if you're waking up like, are you guys like in bed before 8 39 o'clock, like some people I talked to, isn't it depressing. I hate

Mark [73:48 - 73:49]
it.

Chad [73:50 - 73:52]
It's the sacrifices we make.

Jess [73:52 - 73:54]
Yeah, I know. I know. It's like

Chad [73:57 - 74:28]
we're going to bed now before our kids. It's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. Um Yeah, I started going back to recovery or nutrition like have um obviously you were talking about maturity through sport and maturity through sort of experience and doing races. Have you found um you've also matured or sort of started changing and shifting things from a recovery nutrition standpoint would you say a lot of maybe those two areas have really helped you succeed this year with your success?

Jess [74:28 - 75:56]
Oh, 100%. So I sleep way more than I ever used to. Um I would average close to eight hours every single night um before it would be more like 6.5 7. So I've really pushed that, I started using a whoop to start like tracking things and play around with different things. Um And just to see how like just the accountability of seeing that number of hours you slept every night, so by that I just increased it. Um And then in terms of nutrition, like especially in endurance sports, um it's something I'm really vocal on because there's a lot of women who don't eat enough. Um And I think that that's been a key to my success is I replace everything I burn so I eat a lot. Um And so I'm really mindful of that like eating is like a full time job, so increasing the amount of food that I eat to make sure that I'm fueling the work I think is the reason why I was able to do such like intense training, intense amounts of like things thrown at my body. And I think it's a combo of, you know, keeping that strength worth work in there, doing lots of squats and dead lifts and plyometrics to keep the body strong, but then also fueling the work and Drone enough water and doing all the really obvious things um that no one else is doing. And if you, it's funny how like, you don't really need recovery boots, you just need to sleep and you need to drink water and eat enough food. That's like, if you do that, that's 95.

Chad [75:56 - 76:25]
So simple. Right? I mean, the fitness industry in general has taken, has taken advantage of like normal texts in percussion guns and stuff like that. And those are all, they're all great tools. But yes, if you just keep it simple sleeping, good food goes a long way for sure. What, what is the celebratory uh, food that day or day after? Like what kind of, what are you divulging into to replenish the field to replenish the body? I

Jess [76:25 - 76:29]
always want? Like meat? So like, I always love, like, like

Chad [76:29 - 76:30]
a Brazilian steakhouse. Well,

Jess [76:30 - 77:02]
the night after my favorite meal after an Ironman Truthfully is like a huge steak with vegetables because you've had so many carbs in that day that you just want like something like heavy and you know, and you want some vegetables because I actually leading into the race, you start easing up on vegetables because you don't want to too much fiber on race day. So I crave that. And then there's always a burger that's in there somewhere. Um, and then in this particular race, I won a bottle of wine. So nice glass of wine with the steak. It was just, yeah,

Chad [77:03 - 77:14]
amazing. Um, so, so what's next? So like you win Ironman Canada? Does that mean anything? Does this qualify for another race?

Jess [77:14 - 77:23]
Yeah, so I qualified for the Ironman World Championships in kona Hawaii. Um, so I'm gonna go do that next october. So

Chad [77:23 - 77:32]
amazing. So what, So we're september. Would this be the end of the one

Jess [77:32 - 77:36]
more? Well, Mark has a really big races it in next weekend.

Chad [77:36 - 77:37]
Yeah.

Jess [77:37 - 77:49]
So he's a half Iron man. And then we have Utah, which is the 70.3 or half Ironman World Championships at the end of october and then we're in off season. And

Chad [77:49 - 77:59]
so with like, Mark, would this be your a plus race coming up and then jess, would this be another a plus race or is it sort of just another race for

Mark [77:59 - 78:10]
you? Yeah, I'd say this one is definitely my a plus race coming up. I get to go head to head with coach a DJ. So calling them out on the podcast, I just put up a nice uh instagram

Chad [78:10 - 78:10]
um,

Mark [78:11 - 78:13]
battle photo for us. So he's

Chad [78:13 - 78:15]
got a lot of not being here, I'm sure

Mark [78:15 - 78:27]
it's all right. We'll solve this on the barrel man race course. But yeah, that's kind of my race. And then I'm not taking you talk quite as seriously, but I think Jess wants to kind of rebound and go big at that race.

Jess [78:27 - 78:38]
Yeah, I wanna, I wanna, I wanna go full send on. I wouldn't call it the same a plus as an iron man, but like, let's maybe call it an a minus race where I'm like, cool, I'm gonna send it.

Chad [78:38 - 78:41]
Okay. I mean, that doesn't surprise me.

Jess [78:41 - 78:43]
That

Chad [78:43 - 79:13]
sounds exactly what I expected to say. Um, and I guess I have to ask just like, so now you've reached that you were saying before, like you might not ever get a chance to win an Ironman Canada or an Ironman race. Uh, what are your, what are your big goals in this sport? Like? Um, you know, you seem to be uh improving year over year. It sounds like, and it sounds like this year is a great year. What do you have any big goals in the next few years or just in general when you look at the sport?

Jess [79:13 - 80:08]
Um, yes, I do. Um, I was saying to Mark, like what's, what's super cool. Um, and sort of a little like overwhelming is some of the major goals that I set like for my lifetime to reach in triathlon I've met, so now I'm like sort of now what now let's move the goalposts. Like I'm not just gonna rest on my laurels, like let's let's go for the next mountaintop. Um So in the spring I want to go for a sub 2 50 marathon, which is a big, big goal for me I think. Um you know, long term, I'd love to like keep seeing that get faster. Um I want to smash Finland and kona, which are world championships events. Um and then I'm gonna keep looking at how to elevate my game. I'm going to keep getting better at triathlon. So yes, I've got lots of big goals that I'm working with Mark on.

Chad [80:08 - 80:23]
I think one of the cool things for sure with like endurance sports that they really do a good job of kind of like making events around the world. So it's like, there's also the travel aspect of like running in really cool places. I mean, I could, I could definitely like you get into that.

Jess [80:23 - 80:30]
Yeah, like we get to do Finland next year. Like I would never have in that country, but like now we're going and it's going to be amazing

Chad [80:30 - 80:53]
for Mark. I know that we haven't really talked too much about the LP endurance crew. Exactly. But I know you guys have a bunch of races, you were talking about barrel man. Um I mean obviously during jesse's race we've highlighted just, but I know there's a lot of athletes that day that had great days. Um, but you guys have like a full fledged, I guess september is a big month for you guys first more races, not just traffic, but endurance and

Mark [80:53 - 81:48]
so kind of three big races that we have a bunch of athletes going to coming up. So bear and then coming up next weekend, which is a half Ironman distance 70.3 and then our runners get to get to launch into action in october. So at Toronto waterfront, we got a bunch of people racing the half and full marathons that have been putting in a lot of work. So excited to see how they do. And then I think we got probably like 10 to 15 going there for that. And then again, we have a huge group on to Utah for 70.3 world championship. So I think we're up to about 14 for that race as well. So it's gonna be a crazy race and crazy hills by red rocks. It's gonna be a pretty epic race to finish off the year for the club and then uh, And we'll be working on our foundation season and how we can get better for 20, coming up. Lots of big racist plan there too. I gotta go try and get my Kona slot now that

Chad [81:50 - 81:51]
can't be stressed out,

Mark [81:51 - 81:52]
you know, in a

Chad [81:52 - 81:53]
place like that.

Mark [81:54 - 82:07]
I'm going to texas in april to throw down so we'll see. I gotta set my eyes on that and start training now to be as good as Yes, she has the house record for Iron Man, so you're gonna take that back, which is frustrating

Jess [82:07 - 82:14]
and I told him I'm gonna just the following weekend, take our household marathon record, so we just keep challenging each other to be faster,

Mark [82:14 - 82:21]
killing me over here. I gotta slow down with this coaching.

Chad [82:22 - 82:49]
I mean, that's it's amazing. It's amazing hearing uh your story. I mean, it's it's amazing. Uh you know, me not being endurance, not knowing too much of an endurance. I'm learning more and more, so that's good, but I think it sounds like it's a pretty big deal, so it's pretty cool that you crushed it. It's pretty cool. We have such a cool community in our area that seems like everyone, everyone's improving. So, I mean, coach, you're doing something right and

Jess [82:49 - 82:50]
your

Chad [82:50 - 82:52]
athletes seem to be maturing on pace,

Mark [82:53 - 82:55]
that's the goal.

Chad [82:55 - 83:04]
Well, congrats, thanks for sharing your story. Thanks for sharing and just kind of coming out and talking about this is kind of a cool podcast. I hope everyone enjoys it. Yeah,

Mark [83:04 - 83:05]
thanks for having us.

Chad [83:05 - 83:23]
No problem, no problem. Thanks everyone for listening. And yeah, if anybody is inspired by this story please. Our LP endurance crew is how to take on new members growing, making it a team sport. Love it. Yes, thanks everyone for listening. See you later