On today’s episode I have the pleasure of talking with internationally acclaimed speaker and bestselling author, D.J. Vanas.
D.J.’s latest work titled, The Warrior Within - Own Your Power to Serve, Fight, Protect and Heal, draws upon Native American philosophy and tradition to reveal insight on how to develop the resilience and toughness needed to face the overwhelming chaos and noise in today’s modern world.
We’ll start our conversation as D.J. explains what the warrior spirit is, and why it is important for everyone to nurture, especially those who want to lead and serve, with a higher purpose than themselves.
Next, we’ll understand what it means to go on a vision quest and why it is so important to take time daily to let the “dirt settle in your mud puddle”.
Later, we’ll unpack the strategy of relentlessly attacking a seemingly impossible challenge and how not to let fear of failure get in your way when doing so.
And we’ll end our conversation as D.J. explains the significant difference between Native American cultures regard for their elders and our own, and why humor is such an effective weapon when dealing with hardship, adversity, or setbacks.
The Show Notes
DJ Vanness Welcome to Grit Nation.D.J. Vanas:
Thank you for having me, Joe. Happy to be here.Joe Cadwell:
Yeah, thank you so much, DJ for taking your time to be on my show today, I'm really excited to talk to you about your, your new book and the work you've been doing. But the new book The Warrior Within Own Your Power to serve, fight, protect and heal is a great read, I've really been enjoying my time in your book. And before we get into that DJ, maybe you can tell the listener audience a little bit more about who you are, where you came from, and why you decided to write a book about the Warrior Within?D.J. Vanas:
Sure. Well, my name is DJ Vanas. So I'm originally from Muskegon, Michigan. I'm an enrolled member of the auto a tribe. I'm a former military officer, I was an Air Force, and in uniform for 14 years. And I started doing this work over 25 years ago. And it was showing people how to use our traditional warrior principles from Native American communities in what we do in service to others. So how to stay strong, how to stay resilient, how to continue serving at our best, regardless of the circumstances that we're in. And so that's what led me to this book, this is my third book, this the book that just came out the Warrior Within. And it's a distillation of all those principles laid out in 10 chapters, you know how to stay strong, resilient, focused in a chaotic world, and continuing to deliver our best, regardless of what's happening.Joe Cadwell:
And you're relying a lot on Native American traditions. And I understand having read a little bit about your backstory, and that DJ that you've worked with over 500 tribes across North America, and you're like you say, from the Ottawa tribe, originally, and you join the service, but you came from a service oriented family, didn't you?D.J. Vanas:
I did, my mom was a career nurse, my dad was career military. So I grew up with service providers who I saw that model of, you know, give 100% of who you are every day, and sometimes I saw them doing it at their own expense. And so that's, I think one of the things that led me to do this type of work is trying to, I've always looked at my work as providing for the providers, you know, to strengthen the people who are out there serving others, because I grew up with that mentality of give it all away, and then you leave nothing in reserve for yourself. And at that point, you know, you kind of lead yourself closer and closer to burnout.Joe Cadwell:
And that's what happened to you didn't it at a certain point in your military career, you were kind of on the precipice of staying in the military, making it a career or venturing out on your own, and it sounded like you were burning the candle at both ends. And it really started to manifest itself physically.D.J. Vanas:
It did. And so, and sometimes the best lessons you learn or the most painful, those are the ones that stick with you. And at that point, I was in the military, I had a full team of people I was in charge of. And we had just started a family and I just started a business and I was burning the candle on both ends and in the middle. And it's unsustainable when you do that, when you're not taking care of yourself in the process. And I wasn't I kept saying, I'll get to it later, when it's not so crazy when it's not so busy, which is the you know, the the mantra a lot of us use, that gets us into hot water pretty quickly, and later showed up and it showed up in the form of the shingles, which is awful. I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. And it's the resurgence of chickenpox later in life brought on by stress, unmanaged stress. And so I am a born again, passionate advocate for self care, you know, we want to be strong and brave, not just today, or in this this week, we want to do this for the long term. We want to do this sustainably. And we can't do that over, you know, if we're burning the candle on both ends, I say that in my book, very adamantly, you cannot be a warrior, somebody who's in a position to serve, you cannot be a warrior. If you're falling apart. It just doesn't work.Joe Cadwell:
And so the business that you started while you were in the military was you were sort of a liaison for the Native American tribes for the Air Force, is that correct? I wasD.J. Vanas:
I was recruited for the Air Force Academy. That was my alma mater, proud graduate of the Air Force Academy. And I was I wanted to help them increase diversity. You know, that was one of the things that I went up and talk to them about is, you know, federally funded institution, 4400 people, we only had a handful of us there who were native. And I wanted to help change that. And so they put me out on the road work me like a dog and I loved it. I went here, there and everywhere, sharing the good word about the Air Force Academy about the the route to Officer ship in the Air Force. And I found that I absolutely loved it. I love going out and speaking to groups about, you know, not only what we had to offer, but the power of education, the power of healthy choices, surround yourself with the right people, and it kind of grew into a life of its own. And that's why I got to the point where I was like, you know, it started to emerge. And I had two full time jobs at a point I had to make a decision.Joe Cadwell:
And so you made that decision and you created your own business and that business. Who did you sell your business to? Or who did you work with in your own business?D.J. Vanas:
Well, I started my business with a Kinkos business card and a sky page. You're, oh, that's how I started my business. So bloom where you're planted, you know, start wherever you are, and then grow. And my business is native discovery, Inc. And it's one of those, you know, when you first start off, you know, I had a passionate vision. And I had zero experience in that, you know, feel. But I will tell you, I think it's infinitely more important to know what you want to do that how you're going to do it, you'll figure out the how you're going to do it in time. But knowing what you want to do, that's one of the most important questions we ever ask ourselves. And it's scary, and it's big. And there's no fear involved. Because, you know, we think, Well, what if it doesn't happen? You know, what, if it doesn't work out, but spend the other you know, spend more time on the other side of the fence? What if it does work out in a, in a, in a way that's so much bigger than you ever could have imagined?Joe Cadwell:
For sure. And I'm picking you know, just hearing you talk right now, DJ, I'm picking out a few key words that I noticed in the book vision, fear, time. And I think we you know, we should invest a little bit of time right now in getting into your book, The Warrior Within and in today's modern context, how do we well, let's go back before today's modern context, how how would the Native American people define who warriors warD.J. Vanas:
warriors were defined, you know, not that Hollywood stereotypical image we see all too often in movies and TV. When we say warrior in our tribal communities, it's a different connotation, my my people we call a warrior Ogeechee die. And that term has to do with a person who has committed their life to developing their Creator given talents and abilities to be an asset or a benefit to the tribe that they served. It was about leadership, by example, it was about fighting for something bigger than their own personal welfare. And at the heart of that role, it was somebody who dedicated their lives to contribution and service. So it wasn't for personal glory. You know, let's, let's be honest, most of what we do, we never get credit for anyway. Right? Right. But we do it if it's the right thing for the right reasons. And so it was somebody who is who is selfless, but also took care of themselves, because they had to their responsibility levels were high. But at the end of the day, their role was defeated, protect their people, not to feed them protect their ego. So they're very clear about their role.Joe Cadwell:
And that kind of goes counter intuitive or counter culture to what Hollywood wants us to believe the rogue agent, the Rogue Warrior alone by themselves overcoming the odds and and that, you know, seems to be overhyped, over romanticized notion of what a warrior is. And you're saying that the Native American people, through the centuries and millennia have developed a warrior that is a servant to the people who serve until the greater good,D.J. Vanas:
yes, and it's accessible to anybody a day that transcends race or age or gender or stage of life. It's it's a beautiful path of contribution available for anybody willing to walk it. And it's not about being in that lone wolf, it's not about standing on a mountaintop channeling lightning, and you're beyond fear and pain and don't need anybody or outside support, all you need is the next for the challenge. That's a bunch of garbage. You know, I say in the book to our warriors never fought alone. Why? Because that's dumb. You're only going to ever achieve a certain amount in your life, when you're out there winging it on your own, you know, fighting the battles, you know, solo, I was taught that we're a lot more like bees and ants than we are like eagles, we need each other, we're better when we're with each other, or with the right people, let me be clear. But we're built that way. You know, we're social creatures by design, and we draw power from each other and can contribute power to each other. And then the whole tribe is strengthened.Joe Cadwell:
So how do we apply that in modern contexts? Because we're all so busy now. We're all just sort of, you know, running 100 miles an hour? And, again, how can we apply some of the principles of ancient wisdom to today's modern context?D.J. Vanas:
Yeah, a big part of it. Great question. Because that is the world we live in speed of life is the speed of light, you know, we're all running around with their hair on fire, at times, not even asking the question, Am I going in the right direction anymore? So a big part of you know, getting that right is, you know, one of the chapters I cover in the book is about knowing your vision, you know, what's important to you? What kind of life what kind of career are you trying to build. And then, you know, once you identify what that looks like, start surrounding yourself with the right tribe, you know, create your own tribe, the people that are in your circle, that are supportive, that are encouraging, that will hold you accountable. You know, our best stuff comes out when we're in a good environment. You know, when we're out there winging it or doing it alone, you know, it's easy to back off on our goals. It's easy to you know, the moment something goes wrong, that fear kicks in, and it's easy to step away. But when you're surrounded with other people, other warriors, you know, we become brave in that moment, and we're going to need that we live in a tough world, you know, so we shouldn't if we're doing it alone, we're doing it wrong. We're violating the laws of nature. I'll put it that strongly. Because that's what nature teaches us. We're built to be it you know, we're social creatures by design.Joe Cadwell:
So more like bees and ants and that low, flying high above Okay,D.J. Vanas:
that's one of Best stuff comes out.Joe Cadwell:
You had mentioned vision and I know reading through your book you you experienced a vision quest or numerous vision quest, didn't you over the course of your life and, and I love the phrase that during these vision quests that allows the dirt in your mud puddle to settle, and you can find clarity. In those moments, can you describe your personal vision quest, and this really falls along Native American traditions. And then again, maybe a more modern context of how people can go on their own mini vision quest, perhaps?D.J. Vanas:
Sure, yeah, I did four years of vision quest. And Vision Quest is, you know, in many tribes do it in different capacities. But it's all done for the same reason is to get clarity in your life, to prayer for direction, pray for guidance, and your you know, to illuminate your path in life. And, you know, they call it a humble EIGRP, which is to cry for a vision. And you don't know why they call it that until you go out, go out on your own. So four days, four nights, no food, no water, no shelter. And it's the ultimate exercise. And like you said, you know, putting the book letting the dirt settle in your mud puddle. You know, there's no, you're not fighting traffic, you don't have media, you don't have other people talking to you, you get ultimate clarity in a way that's so profound. It's defined where I am, even to this moment. And you don't have to go through a traditional vision quest to get clarity in your life, you can do that for the first 10 minutes, 15 minutes or every day. And I do that, that's how I start my day. Because just letting that dirt settle. Think about the most important things that need to get done that day, what kind of person I want to be in that day. You know, having the strength to handle whatever may be thrown my way, because we never know what that looks like. And you start your day with a place of clarity. And when we do that we're so much more effective than what we do. We're not running in chaos, we're operating from clarity is a gift we give to ourselves.Joe Cadwell:
So even before the your feet touch the floor, you can begin your morning with clarity before you reach over, grab the phone, start checking emails playing Wordle, you know, whatever it is for the morning arts, yeah, that's where the chaos starts. And so you're saying take a mini vision quest and just really set the tone, the clarity of how you want to proceed for the day and start from that point. That's, that's fantastic. I do want to I just I just find it so interesting, you are alone for four days in an area the size of like a blanket, you say you have a blanket, you have your prayer pipe, you have wear shorts, I imagine or a t shirt or shorts, just short, just shorts. And in the book, you describe just incredible, you know, heat and cold and weather, bugs, thirst, there's no food and you stay in one area, it's not like you're wandering an area you're planted. And that during that that period of vision quest you are, you're hoping for that vision to come to you that that clarity,D.J. Vanas:
you stick your spiritual flag in the ground, and you you stay. And it's one of those best exercises to I mean, I learned a lot of going through, you know, sitting with the pain sitting with the suffering. And everything in your body is screaming, leave, go find water, get, you know, leave this place. And that's where you have to lean into it to really get to the other side. And when you get to the other side of the experience, that's where transformation growth happens. You know, people always wonder, why are these ceremony so hard? The reason why is because we're exchanging one thing for something else, we're exchanging physical comfort and familiarity for transformation, growth and wisdom. And it doesn't come easy. But man, those are the lessons like I said, I carry with me to this day until the moment I draw my last breath. I mean, there were profound experiences, and just practicing that of, of, you know, not running away from the things that, you know, scare us, but standing there in that emotion. And getting through to the other side is a great practice, because we're going to need that, you know, it's not the question of if something scary happens, but when it does, how are we going to respond?Joe Cadwell:
Right, and that's that the tempering of steel, you know, you have to just hammer on that steel to create that temperance and, and strength.D.J. Vanas:
Yeah, there's a great quote, and I'm terrible with quotes Joe. But I remember this one, it's seared into my mind is Mildred wit stoven. I don't know what else she ever quoted. But I love this one. She said a clay pot sitting in the sun will always be a clay pot, it has to go through the white heat of the furnace to become porcelain. And so when people go through those tough experiences in life, just remember, embrace all of it. I know it's painful, I know it hurts. But when you come back through the other side, you are going to be a better version of yourself than you ever could have been without that experience. So that's one of the things that I've learned in life. And I encourage people going through hard times, just stay the course keep putting one foot in front of the other. And you're going to see what you really have inside of you that warrior spirit will emerge in those moments.Joe Cadwell:
And you talk about in the book, facing your fears in a Native American tradition. It sounds like the plains tribes would use something called Counting coup, which I'm a little bit confused about, I hope he can straight me out of his DJ. But I understand that counting coup is coming face to face with your enemy, and showing them that you are not afraid of them, that you are not going to back down from them. And you actually just reach over to tap them with a coup stick, which which I can understand, you know, as opposed to laying waste hitting them with a club or, you know, spear or something like that. Western Plains, you touch them with a stick and you show you know, I, I recognize, you know, my fear, the question I have, and this is what keeps the enemy from just laughing your head off when that counting coup happened, I was confused by that.D.J. Vanas:
Nothing keeps the enemy from doing that. That's why it's so brave. That's why it's all about expression of bravery and courage. That's why counting coup is such a higher honor than actually striking an enemy down because of what it required. It required guts, you know, at a core level, to be able to stand there, you know, face to face with your fear your opponent, the one who is threatening you and say, I'm not afraid of you, I'm so not afraid of you, I'm not going to strike you down. And the point I've tried to make in the, in the book with, you know, sharing that tradition is because life is filled with those moments of fear that we're going to face. And when we face them head on, we can get through those challenges. We can't do that if we're trying to run away, diminish, shove it in a corner, ignore it, when we face it are so much better. And we build our courage reservoir. You know, when we show those moments of bravery, we can Storm Away for the future, you know, and when we acknowledge those moments of, you know, courage and bravery, we can save it up for the next time we encounter a scary moment and look down at that reservoir and say, you know, I've been here before, I've been through this, I know what this looks like, I know what this feels like. And I've done this before, I've got this, you know when we can, and when we store those courage moments away, because a lot of times we go through hard times, and we just get through it. And we go Oh, thank god that's over. I encourage people to look back at those moments and the last two years, how many times have we had to face fear? You know, and when are those moments of courage that you've shown? You know, and when you reflect on that, you get to operate from a place of not just faith, which is important, but also evidence. It's evidence based, you know, so when you run into that scary moment, you can look in there and go, I've been here before I got this, and I'm proving it to myself,Joe Cadwell:
right. And having, having had my fair share of in the occupation that I pursued. As a lot of listeners know, I was a commercial diver for over 25 years, having been trained in the military and, and having had plenty of, you know, pucker moments along the way. Yeah, yeah, you learn from those who learn how to handle that stress and push past it. And so So addressing your fears head on, I also picked up out of your book, you know, the, the seasonality of approaching task, and the fact that, you know, there were in Native American cultures, there were, there were times for war, and there was times for farming or for hunting and those type of things. And when we attack a problem that is seems daunting, and maybe we are fearful, it's better to just sort of pace ourselves and go into it full bore, but also realize that we need some recovery time. And I was hoping you could talk a little more about that.D.J. Vanas:
Yeah, absolutely. Great question. And that's, it's one of the things that, you know, a human being can eat an entire buffalo, by themselves, just not at once. You know, bite by bite, you can consume the whole thing. And it's the same thing with challenges going through scary moments, is you don't have to do it all today. You know, it's like that. That's what that chapter was all about as attack and attack. Again, be relentless in that pursuit. But also take breaks. have moments where you can, you know, regroup, regather, recharge, reboot yourself, so that you can get back into the fight and and be effective in what you do. You know, it's the same idea with boxers between rounds in a fight. Why do they take breaks so that they can recharge and get back into the fight and operate at a high level, you can't do that if you just strung 12 rounds together in one big fight. You know, it's just a moment of you're going to degrade over time. So we need to be able to do that for ourselves, especially when dealing with big projects, something that's scary, something that's going to take a while, you know, we got to pace ourselves, it doesn't mean that we stop the attack, or there's times where you can pause and regroup and then get back into it.Joe Cadwell:
And also I saw something there's a difference between quitting. In your book you outline the difference between someone who just quits and someone that surrenders surrenders, yes. And can you define for us the difference between quitting and difference between surrendering?D.J. Vanas:
Yes, absolutely. And and it's an important distinction to make, you know, our warriors. Traditionally in our in our native communities, they fought against incredible So they were outmatched, numbers wise, technology wise, you know, lied to and deceived at every turn. I mean, it was just every odd was stacked against them, and they still found a way to keep going and keep going. And our great Native leaders, you know, may have surrendered in the end, but they never quit. You know, warrior spirit was always paramount for these leaders. Now what surrender is, is when you realize that what you're doing is no longer working, it's not getting any results anymore. And actually, you know, what we're continuing to do, sometimes is doing more harm than good. And when we realize that, that we are at the end of our power, surrendering is okay. And surrendering, actually is based on, you know, it's a courageous act in that moment. So that's different quitting is when things get tough, things get uncomfortable, we just walk away and say, I don't want to do this anymore. There's so there's a difference between surrendering and quitting surrendering is not, you know, there's nothing shameful about that. Sometimes we have to surrender to say things like, I need help, you know, I what I'm doing is not working, I need outside assistance, you know, that people struggle in life, sometimes we need to go out of our way to find somebody who can help us in that moment. And that's there's nothing wrong with that, that's an ultimate act of bravery sometimes, is to finally admit, I need some help here,Joe Cadwell:
who's reaching out for help. And that will lead me that seems like a perfect segue now to talk about staying a warrior, but being realistic about, you know, your progression through life. And as you begin to get older, maybe you're not as inclined to pick up the war club about to battle, but you can also still have value within modern day society, I think undervalues our senior population. But in Native American cultures, it seems like you truly did value and cherish the wisdom that was achieved from these elders. And I was hoping you could talk about maybe transitioning, and how do you know when to transition?D.J. Vanas:
First of all, you know, again, going back to the original definition, you know, of somebody who commits to using their Creator, given talent mobility over a lifetime, to contribute to their tribe, and, and, and to serve them. So that can change and transition the way that we contribute the way that we serve. So it might not be the physical way, you know, as in our younger years, but it doesn't mean that a warrior can't still be a contributor. And that's where that elder role comes in, where they're not out there leading the charges, but they're, they're sharing wisdom, they're sharing guidance are strengthening people, you know, at a character level, which is critically important and building a strong group of people. So we're just doing it in a different way, we're shifting gears is all it comes down to, and, and out of the billion reasons why I'm proud to be Native American, you know, one of them is the fact that we we don't just, you know, accept our elders, we honor them. They are treasures for our people. They are the corporate knowledge of who we are, I mean, they have gathered wisdom and stories and experiences, life lessons, and they hand all that down, you know, to benefit and empower the people that are coming up behind them. So the elder role was not about getting to a certain age, and you punch your card, now you're officially an elder, the elder role was a path that was, you know, people would put themselves on with purpose on purpose. And it was to gather as much good stuff as they possibly could, and share it with as many people as they possibly could. That was the whole role to make other people better, you know, getting, you know, being an elder getting older is automatic, you know, getting better is by design. And that's what our elders were all always about. They were in continual growth. And they lead by example, in that regard.Joe Cadwell:
And some of the examples, you talk about values quite a bit in your, in your book as well. And some of the the inherent value values, the ancient wisdom, even going back to stoicism, and you know, other cultures that date back millennia. stoics had courage, wisdom, temperance, and justice as sort of their core values. And I noticed a lot of those themes were were also depicted in your book, The Warrior Within. And I thought that was really interesting that, you know, the ancient Greeks and the, and the Native Americans shared a lot of these similar, long lasting values. Yeah,D.J. Vanas:
yeah. Well, truth is truth. You know, when you melt everything down to its core essence, you start coming back to some common themes. And these common themes are what people have learned the hard way, on what really has meaning, what really keeps people together, what allows people to endure the unendurable. And when you go back to these evergreen values, I mean, this is the building blocks of creating a structure, in a society in a community that allows them to endure, you know, and so a lot of these do come back as common themes. You know, we have the seven grandfather teachings for my tribe, which, you know, honesty, courage, all these things that you know, when we go back to over and over again, the same things come out because that's what I said in the book is it shows again, that things built on values have attended See to last. And we can do that individually, we can do that as a group as a team, but know what those values are, it gives us an anchor point and stormy seas, you know, because when all hell's breaking loose, and there's chaos all around us, if we know what our values are, we are we are standing on a patch of solid ground, we're going to be okay. Because in that moment, we know what to say yes to. And we know what to say no to gives us clarity. In a world of chaos.Joe Cadwell:
It sounds like it's all just comes full circle, everything we're talking about builds on each other the vision, the values, the relying on other people within your tribe, relying on wisdom of elders. One of the components in your book that I noticed, and I just loved, was it was full of humor, DJ, and you had some really, really humorous parts in there. And I know humor is also I don't know if we can call it a value, but it is incredibly powerful in stressful moments, and as an overall philosophy not to take things too seriously. And I think your book exemplifies that. And how does humor play out in Native American cultures,D.J. Vanas:
I'm glad you brought this up. You know, our elders always have said the same thing. Laughter is the best medicine. You know, humor is the thing that allows us to stay flexible, and, and get through the storms. I mean, humor is what else, you know, allowed our people to survive all the things that we've been through over the last several centuries, you know, displacement, and warfare and disease and all the things, you know, we have been able to endure that. And one of the, you know, secret sauce elements of that is our humor. You know, I mean, tribal communities, they, they understand that this is truly medicine. And it elevates us at a time where we're down in the dumps, it makes us healthier. I mean, science is proving all these things now. So it's not just a cool bumper sticker, or a t shirt, laughter is the best medicine, science is catching up to our elders. And they've proven it, you know, they're showing how, you know, laughter and humor, release chemicals in our bloodstream that allow us to learn faster, we get along with other people better, it boosts or immunities, which is great anymore, what sense flu seasons year round, and it lowers our stress hormones. And the best part about the whole thing is, it's free. You know, and that's why I'm such a fan of traditional wisdom. You know, it's like, these are the fundamentals and the basics, that have not changed through the millennia. And thankfully, you know, they're still there for us, because in a world of chaos, and confusion, and information overload as normal, we still have these, you know, classic touchstone, things that have been proven in the worst of times to still be effective. And I'd argue they're needed now more than ever.Joe Cadwell:
I agree, as well. So somebody was just reading your book now, what do you hope that they would get out of your,D.J. Vanas:
I hope that they come away after they read the book with a renewed sense of confidence in who they are, and what they can do, that they have some clarity and their purpose, their path, that they understand that we all struggle at times, we all deal with fear, but, but also getting strategies on how to create strength in their own life and do do this sustainably. Because like I said, the whole goal is not to be brave. In the moment, it's to be brave for the long haul. Because I am convinced, you know, that warrior role that's based on service, you know, that's our highest calling, if we're not put here to serve, why are we here at all. And so the book was written to help people do that sustainably do it at a stronger and higher level, and to actually get joy back in and the way that they serve other people. Because like I said, I think that's why we're here.Joe Cadwell:
Now, that's a fantastic message. And I know you've taken this message to this as your third book, I believe you said, you also work as a public speaker, and what message when you when you're brought in to speak? Are you asked to speak on a certain theme? Or do you talk about the Warrior Within, you know, underlying philosophy and corporate culture? How does that work?D.J. Vanas:
Yeah, I'm, you know, my niche is by met my message, not by industry. And so this message, you know, is transportable across the spectrum. And so I always come back to, you know, sharing these principles, and again, being adamant that these principles are accessible to anyone, you know, they're, they're not exclusive. They don't, it doesn't matter what your background or your age or your gender is. These are principles that help us be a more effective, stronger version of who we are as human beings. And so that has legs. I mean, you can bring that to you know, I work with youth, I work with corporate groups that work with US military, with government agencies, tribal communities and employees all the time. And, you know, these principles are are evergreen, but you're basically taking you know, these strategies, and when we incorporate them and what we do everything that we do, it gets better. Well, DJJoe Cadwell:
vana says has been a fantastic conversation. Where can people go to find out more about you and your work?D.J. Vanas:
Best place to find me is on native discovery.com That That's the website that has, you know, the kind of the overall view of what I do you know who I am, who I do it with. And then, and then the Warrior Within my newest book can be found wherever books are sold. There's also an audio version on Audible and wherever you get audiobooks, but there's a bonus hour an hour and 20 minute interview at the end of the audio book done between me and one of my best friends I've known since I was 17, who's now one of the directors of the National Medal of Honor Institute. And so that was one of the bonus things in the in the audio part. And yes, I did narrate the whole thing. four full days. And I'm happy with how with how it turned out. SoJoe Cadwell:
facing your fears right there. DJ, this has been a fantastic conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time to be on my show today.D.J. Vanas:
Thank you, Joe. I appreciate it very much.