Tech Me Seriously!
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Tech Me Seriously!
Nichole Robertson: Non-Technical Paths to Tech Careers – Finding Your Fit!
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In this episode of Tech Me Seriously, host Sarah Tenisi, CEO of TenisiTech, converses with Nichole Robertson, the newly appointed CEO of Teladata. Nichole shares her journey from joining Teladata in 2005 and rising to CEO in 2025, emphasizing the importance of gaining technical aptitude through experience rather than just education. They discuss various non-linear paths into IT, the essential role of culture fit in hiring, and the significance of mentorship and willingness to learn. The conversation also delves into strategies for employers to attract diverse talent and the balance between technical skills and personal attributes in achieving long-term industry success.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction
01:00 Building Technical Aptitude Through Experience
01:29 The Evolution of IT Departments
05:46 Nichole's Journey to CEO
06:05 Understanding Teladata's Role
12:20 The Importance of Culture Fit in Tech
13:16 Nichole's Career Path and Roles
23:23 Journey to Leadership
23:43 Succession Planning and Selection
24:06 Supportive Team Dynamics
25:44 Learning and Mentorship
27:48 Safe Learning Environment
29:18 Starting an IT Career
37:07 Hiring for Potential
39:37 Building a Positive Work Culture
48:58 Career Pathing and Flexibility
50:28 Final Thoughts and Reflections
You are listening to Tech Me Seriously with Sarah Esi, CEO of ESI Tech. Candid conversations with Driven technology and business professionals who've always got something interesting to say.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Hi, I'm Sarah esi, the host of Tech Me Seriously, and CEO of TSI Tech, an IT services firm headquartered in California. Today, my guest is Nicole Robertson, CEO of Teradata. Nicole is a visionary leader, and leads Teradata with a bright vision for the future and formed by over 19 years of experience in multiple areas of the company. Nicole joined Teradata in 2005 and progressed through the ranks, eventually becoming selected as CEO this year in 2025. Her ability to lead, connect, and inspire is helping shape Teradata's next iteration of business, and I am. Super excited to be talking to Nicole today. Nicole.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147you so much. I'm super excited to chat with you today.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, this is gonna be fun. This topic is one that's near and dear to my heart. I think I am asked about this all the time. When Nicole and I were prepping for this, we were like, okay, what should we chat about?'cause there's, you know, 16 different topics Yeah. probably go to town on. But really what we landed on is how to build technical aptitude. Through experience, not just training and education. And again, I get asked all the time from really smart people, how do I get into it?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And so that's what we're talking
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. No, I think it's a perfect topic for us. I mean, we're both very passionate about it and I think have a lot to talk about.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Well, and you know, between the two of us, we have 50 years of combined experience
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I dunno.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147it projects. And the interesting thing is we sort of arrived at it differently.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And I think that this is just one of those conversations for people that are interested in it. And also, we're gonna talk a little bit towards the end about. Why would it be cool to hire somebody that has the right culture fit and aptitude for technology versus somebody that walks in with all this technical training?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yes.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Let's kick us off. So this idea about building technical aptitude with experience. Why do we think this is an important thing to cover today?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Well,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147are your
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah, I mean, people ask me all the time kind of how I got into this industry, how I got to be where I am, and it's not a linear path, you know? There's a lot of different ways you can get there and I think people, especially, folks coming out of college, really trying to figure out their lives. And there's a lot of skill sets that they have that would lend themselves to it, but they're not seeing the path for it. So I think, you know, what I like to see is people who are ambitious, who have an interest, maybe they're hobbyists that have an interest in it, but maybe that's not what they went to school for and very likely, they didn't go to school for, but they can still get a great job in it, workplace, et cetera.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I always laugh with people because when you talk to a lot of IT people, they did not grow up thinking, oh, I'm gonna be a CIS admin, or I'm
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147No
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I'm gonna work in it. That wasn't the goal and again, I'm gonna date myself a bunch during this conversation, but
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147me.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147This happened early nineties. Not every school even offered like MIS, which is I think the closest related area of study for
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Like most of the schools did well, and I was at uc, Santa Cruz. So I left uc, Santa Cruz after studying computer engineering and didn't really know what to do next. And so I think that's part of it is it's kind of a. Field, not newer'cause I've been doing it
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147But, you know what I mean? It's like not something that people grow up thinking
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147from a field of study, I think it is really popular right now, but I don't think it was like, I think we talked a little bit about it in our prep about, you know, growing up in Silicon Valley and, having tech here. But I think in a lot of places you didn't get that exposure, right? And so here we might've been fortunate enough in, the San Jose, Silicon Valley area to have that exposure early to be like, oh, this is a field I could go into. Even if there. Isn't a course of study for it. But in a lot of places, I don't think that's the case. There wasn't that exposure. There wasn't, the promotion of it to be a field of study.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And I even think back to my early days at Adobe, which again is like early two thousands, and what was interesting is they really were just starting to build out an IT department as like a business practice. So an engineering heavy company like that, the engineers can figure out what they need. Whether it was wireless at the time or whatever. And so it wasn't until, those early two thousands that it really started to become, I think a really important department from the perspective of security, productivity and service. And so I think that's it is sort of fledgling and think about even all the security work that people are getting
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Sure.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147wasn't something that you could study before.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147And think about it this way, Adobe would probably be a good example, right? It is just a portion of what they're supporting or what they're doing there. But, you know, they are a technology company. But think of
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Right.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147hr, the marketing, all of the other support functions in a business. Like you didn't have to go to school for it or for technology in any capacity to be really good in marketing technology, right? So there's so many tangential ways you can get into working for technology that aren't the traditional way of getting in. Right.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. Like I'm a programmer, for example.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147And I think for me growing up, both my parents, worked at HP and my dad was a programmer that didn't seem interesting to me in the slightest at the time. But my mom was also in technology. She'd also worked for HP and then worked for a small software company she wasn't the technical expert there, but she, worked in sales and she worked in consulting. So I saw other paths that were, provided to me that gave me a little bit more context around. Okay, there's a lot of different realms of technology that you could work in.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And what's so interesting about that idea is if you think about Silicon Valley as the example, anybody who works for a technology company says they're in
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147They are. But like you said, it could be marketing, it could be sales, it could be project managing, it could
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Good.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147of different
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And so I think that's a perfect segue to talk about your specific story and how you arrive at CEO, 20 years after getting started at Teradata. And also as we talk about that, I do think it would be fun to talk about Teradata. What does Teradata do?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah. You, me, to start there first.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, let's start
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, so, you know, it's, it's, we're at this really interesting intersection, so I kind of joke that we are it, but we're also construction and workplace.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Because we design and project manage for workplace technology. So think about everything that runs your office, honestly, your internet and your wireless and your audio visual and security. We work with our clients to determine what the requirements are for those workplace technologies. We design them, we coordinate with all of the different parties, and then we get it installed. So we project manage a lot of complex workplace installations. Helping clients standardize on, hey, are they gonna be doing conference rooms with Zoom or Teams or Google? And what are the peripherals and the different technology that are gonna support that? So go through that myriad of really important tools that, every employee needs to work in their office. So that's a high level kind of what Teledata
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147and I love
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147So we're two tech CEOs that do two very different things
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147companies. what it's worth, like having a company like Teradata, helping you get your new office ready is absolutely fantastic. And it's something that 10 Tech does, but not as an area of focus, but it is like your practice. And
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I think our services are complimentary actually in a lot of ways.'cause we really aren't focused on the network really. An IT department in a company would be focused on their network design and we'd be building to support that. You know, there are technology rooms, how many racks and the cabling and the airflow and the electrical to support, you know, what's gonna be the network.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And that's like a specialization that's really key to have when you're building out a site. We were joking about how, and I think a lot of this is changing. I think that companies are really interested in partnering with those of us that have expertise in these areas. But remember we were joking about what happens when we go to pitch and they say, we get feedback like, oh, it's too much.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147sure.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147What do you see when people aren't willing to partner up?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Well, I mean, these days it's a little easier because there really is no office without the technology, nobody's moving in. Nobody's productive if there isn't strong internet and wifi, and the ability to video conference and your badge doesn't work to get into the building. So I think now. It's so much more critical. It's a little bit easier to talk about the risks involved with not having good planning ready to go. I mean, as simple as do you have internet to the building when you, order your circuits, how long is that gonna take? People think, oh, I'll get that in a few weeks. Dependent upon the internet, just getting internet to the facility. It's critical to business operations. So it's not as hard of a sell, honestly, as it might've been before.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I love that that was the example.'cause we get people all the time that are like, yeah, we're moving into a new site in six weeks. I'm like, cool. Who'd you order your internet service from?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yep.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147They're like, what do you mean? And it's like, okay, well here's how we're gonna do this. You gotta go to the building. You have to see what carriers are there. Maybe you get it done in six weeks, but this is a 90 day
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147see, we could go down the rabbit hole of how to like successfully plan an office. But that's, that was my favorite example. I talked to a friend of mine that was in commercial real estate the other day, and he was asking me questions about, about, uh. Site that his clients were gonna move
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147that's what we were talking about. I was like, well, did they order the service already? And
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yep.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I just think it's one of those things where if you find somebody with the deep experience that you need, your moving is so much smoother. And so I love that there's this spec specialization that you guys
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. And I think a lot of it people, I mean, they have a day job that isn't a move, that isn't a relocation or a project. Right? And this is what we do, and probably what you do every day are these types of projects. We bring that kind of experience to make it easier and take that workload off of an internal team, you know?
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Exactly. And so that's about Teledata.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yes,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147us about your story. This story of, I didn't study it,
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147no.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I am.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147No, I got a degree in business and that was really because I had no idea what I wanted to do. I had done some work in high school at my mom's company and I liked working at a small company and I thought, well, I'll get a business degree. It's very general, and when it came time to select my. Emphasis, I was like, gosh, I, I still am, I'm struggling a little bit on where I should focus my energy. So I actually reached out to my mom and I said, what do you think? And she said, well, do you have time to do two? And I said, I do. And she said, okay, well, I think you should do marketing. I think that you, your personality lends itself really well to marketing. Why don't you pick the other one? So I picked entrepreneurship. I thought, well, I like working in a small business. Maybe I'd run a small business someday. I didn't, I don't think I dreamed quite this big, but, you know, it was, the best I could come up with at, 17, 18, 19 years old, right. Of what I was gonna do. So then I graduate and I am, still a little bit, unsure at the college that I went to. I was with a lot of really interesting, passionate people were really into film or theater or dance, and had this innate passion about what they wanted to do. And I really felt like I lacked that. I was like kind of lost in what I wanted to do. I had been working at a bank helping with marketing. I worked for a wonderful woman there who, really helped me kind of hone in a little bit on my sales and marketing skills. So when I ended up summertime after college graduation, I was hanging out with a friend from college and talking with his parents about what I wanted to do, for my new career and they said, oh God, that's really interesting. We're looking for somebody in marketing. Would you wanna come, you know, interview at Teledata? I was like, I don't know anything about, at the time they really focused a, we focused a lot on data centers and I said, gosh, I know nothing about data centers, but okay, I'll give it a shot honestly, I think the connection that I made with the people here was instant. And so I was like, gosh, I really like the woman that I interviewed with. I liked all the people that I met. And I thought, okay, yeah, I could give this a shot, and see if I could be successful. Not really thinking, I think in the back of my head that there be a lifelong career per se.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Who would what Were you like 20 at the
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, I was 21 years old and just like, okay, I need to get some experience. Let me figure this out. But the nice thing that I felt immediately was just, it was the right kind of fit. Like it was a smaller company. Everyone knew each other and they were all very willing to put in the work to train me on what we did.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147It sounds like too, as you were describing the path, and I wanna talk about the roles within
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147too, because I think that's really interesting. But you mentioned like good fit you men, and what I'm hearing when you say that is it was a great culture.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Correct.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147all got to know each
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I think I. Again, that's another one of those topics we could dive into, but that's part of, where you and I are coming from in terms of do you have to be the most technically, trained person to start at a company and a lot of, your HR people and the people that work on culture and leadership, talk about that being the more important thing.'cause technical skill can be learned, right.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I mean, my longevity here really has a lot to do with the culture and the fit and just the roles that I was able to fill and the learning I was able to do on the job. I think that the fit is tremendous. And I wanna get into that a little bit more because I think that there's a lot of hiring and things that you can be looking for that'd be like, yes, they're not technical yet, but they can definitely lend themselves to working in a technical role.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And we are gonna talk
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147in this next section. Okay. So let's talk about the roles that you have had since joining Teradata. And part of what I want people to be listening for is just the variety.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yes.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And you explored all these different avenues and I think marketing is such an important kind of step.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Just as an aside, I'm a huge Shark Tank fan.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Oh, me too. Me too.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147learn. You
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147good. I love it.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I learned all kinds of stuff and one of the things I think, and if somebody out there like wants to correct me, that's fine too. But I feel like Mark Cuban talked about if I were gonna go back to college now, it would be around marketing
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And that's what you did too. And for me, marketing has always been the thing that sort of has been elusive. And learning how to tell the story and learning how to connect with people, I think is really what that's about. But that was your starting point.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, it's really was learning about what clients and potential clients want, and then finding a way to communicate that you can be that solution. Right. So I started off in marketing as an admin, knew nothing about what we did, but I became, I'll call it a shadow to all the people here. I went on every meeting that my boss had. I went to all the sales pitches. I. Went on job walks and learned so that I could help in the marketing aspects. I could figure out what we did and then help them create materials around that and follow up with people based on that. So I started off doing the marketing and very soon after that started to help with a little bit of business development, helping research, who would be good target accounts, how could we get into new lines of business and supporting our business development team. And so as I moved into business development, what you come to find is that hey, it's great if you can land a new account, but then to maintain that relationship is so critical. So I started to do more account management, like, Hey, we've landed this great account. We are partners now, right? We're doing a lot of work together. How do we best partner with them? How do we best provide service? And that's. By having a relationship with the people you're working with. So I kind of moved into a more account management role. I'm still doing a little bit of business development, but really I'm trying to maintain and manage the key accounts that we have and make sure that those clients get the service that they want. Right. That then kind of transitions more into project and program management,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I was think, I was like, I see this path toward operations. Right. Okay.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. So then you've built this relationship with somebody and they trust you and they come to you and ask you for support. And so then you take on more of a project role. So now, instead of just helping them with new contracts and figuring out who the right team members are, i'm more orchestrating exactly how that project is gonna be executed. So I moved a little bit more into the project management side with a lot of our accounts that we had lots of different projects going simultaneously. We had lots of different stakeholders amongst many sites. I had lots of project managers working on it. So it's kind of being that single pane of glass to tell everybody the project status and manage the team at a high level. Never would've seen that trans. You know, that transformation from, you know, marketing and kind of being behind the scenes to then being client facing and really helping, run the projects with our team. So I did that for quite some time. And honestly, the best way for me to really learn the business, to really understand what we do, what we provide, what clients want, what other businesses or lines of business we can be in to support them. Because, you know, when, once you're in with a really key, partner, you wanna learn, how else could we provide service? So then I started in my director of client services role, and that's where I was focused, was how can we provide the best service? Who are the best team members? What partners do we need out in the marketplace that we don't, if we don't provide it internally, who are we utilizing? So it was spending more time in figuring out at a higher level kind of how we could provide support to the different accounts that we had while also maintaining some of the accounts that I was already providing service to. So yeah, it was kind of this really. Natural organic progression of, I could see where the need is and I'd like to fill that. I think I could do it. Kind of scary in, in moments, you know, you're working with a really big account and you're the face and you're like, but I'm not, I'm not the technical expert. I'm not the subject matter expert in IT infrastructure or, you know, audiovisual security data centers, but I'm the face to it. So, you know, really trying to learn as much as I could throughout that process. Really technically understanding what we do and, and how to provide support there.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And I wanna highlight this project management role as a role that I, at least from my perspective, is one that will help you grow leaps and bounds toward technical
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147who are
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147to? Why are you the face, right? And who are you talking to to figure out what you need?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147A little bit about
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah, I mean, in our roles, I'm, I. Sometimes you're depending on the size of the company. I was talking with C-level individuals, heads of real estate, workplace, IT managers people that were extremely experienced in the industry. And what I'm providing is really the confidence that I've got a good team to support them and that even if I don't know the answer, they know I'm gonna provide the followup to get the answers for them. Right. So that there's accountability amongst our team.'cause when you're working on a lot of project based stuff, really it's, not necessarily knowing the technical answer in the moment. It's knowing where the right parties are, where it lies, right?
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And for me too, it was like, okay, if I needed to do like a network project for a move or an acquisition, it would be like, okay, I'm gonna go talk to our, network architects in the company that I was working with at the time. And I would say, walk me through what you need to build this network. And it would include everything right through. Identifying the requirements to doing the procurement, to implementing the hardware, to programming and configuring the hardware. And so all of a sudden you're like, okay I, as a non networking person, I'm starting to understand what they need to be successful.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147only was it the project and the clients,'cause I know that you were very client facing as a client. What did you call,
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Account
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147call it?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147account,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, account managers, right? And like customer success in
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147success role. That was the word I was looking
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147but also talking very technically with the people. And I think that's the, I think for me, one of the unlocks, and again, I think we'll get to this for, in this actionable advice section,
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147was to say, what do you need both of you right? Client and internal people to get the job
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. I think the key to that for us, and I see it successful with a lot of other partners we work with, is that discovery process get to know each other. So we do a very detailed use case analysis, like how do you use the space, how do the employees, you know, your customers use the space, right? And so we spend a good amount of time, several weeks of time really just digging into all the different stakeholders, what their use case and needs are what the longevity of this, you know. Space is going to be and, and kind of figure out a roadmap for it before you dig into actual project execution. We really need to figure it out and figure out how much it's gonna cost and provide a lot of that detailed information so that they can feel a hundred percent on it. Right. So
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Super smart, right? Because when you're talking about
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147and space planning, there were tons of clients we worked with in San Francisco that would grow out of their spaces
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147faster than they
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Oh.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147right? So that discovery is super important. Is this temporary space or are you, and if it is, you better be looking for your next space. Two years probably before you
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. One of my colleagues here, Brian, Jonathan, he always says that like, the hardest part is the crystal ball because you don't know what the future's gonna hold. So how do you plan for three to five years? And, you know, you're making a lot of assumptions and you're doing a lot of. Analysis on, okay, if we did this, what would this mean? How, what would this trigger? Do we need to make that room bigger? Do we need to allow for more racks? Do we need to, right. So you're trying to do a lot of that assessment and a part of that is doing that a little bit in the sales process too, with our accounts. It's just figuring out like, what do you really need? Where can we fit in? Or where do you need resources to fit in and figure this out? It's really kind of a consulting in that process. Right.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And having somebody like Teledata that specializes in that is very interesting.'cause I had to learn this stuff sort of along the way. But what about like a client that we had in Menlo Park that had six racks and they were doing big data for, government agencies
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147all of a sudden they needed to have 12 racks. Oh, and by the way, they're on the second floor. So now we
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Structural issues. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Oh yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I mean, it's stuff like that. To be able to talk about that at the forefront of a project is so I.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147It saves so much time and money for clients to just kind of do an assessment, like let's figure it out first before we start moving down the path too far. So yeah, I think that's a big way that, people can learn just in general if they're not technical, is participating in a lot of that process upfront so you can learn what do clients or, people in IT or workplace need to support their business.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Okay, so we got to the project and resource planning Director of customer Service. So take us back to the
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, so, you know, I was director of client services. I really enjoyed the role, but you know, we have a great, team here with a lot of longevity. Our business, you know, we've been around for almost 39 years and our. Co-founder Bob Brown, you know, was getting ready to retire. So we were talking a little bit about, well, we're not a lot about succession planning for a while, figuring out it's a, what I consider, like a family feeling kind of business. Right. It's small. You know, there's only a certain amount of people here that kind of come and go. It's a really, like our, our tenure here is in the 20 plus year mark, you know, for most of our.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147know I get chills thinking about the culture that Teledata has been able. I don't know much about it, right? But I know that in order for people to stick around, in order to be almost a 40-year-old company, in order to have that family feel,
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147to be, there, has to be good behind it. I just don't think that this does not happen by accident. So I get really excited to hear the story.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147No, and so I think, you learn over time when you bring people in, whether they're gonna be good fits, I think bringing people in at a higher level, honestly is harder because, you know, are they gonna be a good fit? Do they know how it works here? So we spent a long time assessing who we had internally and what the next steps were for this progression. And you know, part of it is. Willingness, right? Raising your hand, saying, I'm willing to be a leader. I many times throughout my career just said like, I wanna participate, I wanna be in management, or I wanna be in leadership, or I wanna lead this effort. So I think it's, it's partially just a little bit of that. Less so, again, the, you know, the, the technical know-how, I mean, I'm, I'm technical enough to be very dangerous, but it, it really has a lot to do with. Being the right fit for the culture of the business. And so we worked on our succession planning for, for many years, and that culminated in, in my selection by the, by the ownership team last year.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147That must have been really exciting.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147was extreme. Thank you.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147even been that long, but
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147is, it's such a wonderful story and I can't imagine how good that feels.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147A amazing, I mean, I, it's been very well received. I've been very lucky to have such a supportive team here at teledata. The other like ownership and management team members here are like, you know, my family, they're chosen family here that we all work with together. And so it's been, honestly, people are always asking me like, oh, are you stressed out? It's been really difficult to make the transition and. I, I'd love to, to, to fake it and say, yeah, it's so tough now. You know, but really when you're doing a lot of that kind of leadership leading up to it, the transition wasn't difficult. The team here has been great, so it's, it's really been fantastic.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And your path, right? Literally took you throughout the
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And so it was an incredible opportunity. And let's be real. Like how often do people have this chance and this opportunity? And part of me, even as I say that, I can always talk both ways, but even as I say that, it's like you've put the time in. I think that's really important too, and you've explored all these different areas, so let's not underestimate the amount of work that you put in to get here,
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147To be in a small, to be one of a, a small business owner. There's so many facets to the business that I had to learn that were not my strong suit or that I didn't, spend as much time in business school learning, right? Like, I, I didn't spend as much time in finance and hr, right? I had to, I had to learn on the job. And figure out how we run the business over the course of time. And that goes for a lot of aspects of the business. So I think that's part of it, is just the willingness to learn and, and to be honest, surround yourself with great people who, who know that stuff that you don't know, right? I, I'm the first to admit the things that I don't know because I wanna make sure that we're doing the right thing, so I wanna bring the right people in to make that happen.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Did you have any specific leadership training?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I had a tremendous amount of mentorship here at Teledata and elsewhere, but executive leadership training formally, no. I spent a lot of time with our CEO and co-founder Bob Brown. I had several other individuals here at the organization who really, took me under their wing when I was, really junior in my career to make sure that I understood things technically that let me. Take some chances and shine a little bit. I also spent some time in a couple of different professional organizations, like industry organizations where I got to do some leadership. So I was part of the International Facilities Management Association in Silicon Valley. And I'm on a board for another nonprofit where I've gotten to have different kinds of leadership roles there. So it's. Very different from what I do here at Teledata, but you know, related. And so I was able to be on a couple of different boards to learn a new skill set in nonprofit. So.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I love it. And I mean that's part of, what I would like to see as a big takeaway from this conversation is this willingness to learn from other people. I think that it's certainly a testament to who you are and your willingness to learn, but it also is the right place thing that you had these mentors, and I think that's part of what makes us all really lucky, is to find these people that are willing to spend time with us. I certainly have a set of mentors that I've relied
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147It is one of the most important aspects, honestly, of your growth is to have people that can provide feedback to you in a safe environment or champions for you, your cheerleaders, to, make sure that you, you know, are, are helping you in your success. And they have real life experience that I think you, you only learn from doing it. And so that's another. Piece they bring to that puzzle of trying to figure it out is like they've, they've been through it. When I'm talking with our leadership and ownership team here, they've been through the ups and downs of the economy. They've been through so many different things that I haven't yet experienced or I have now, but I didn't then. And, you know, that's invaluable. It's not something you teach in a course,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147100%. And you said, you know the word safe. And what I remember from my first management role, it was the first time I had a team under me. It was at a smaller company and. director or he, I think he was the VP of IT and infrastructure said to me, he said, Hey Sarah, this is a safe place to
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I'm gonna help you out, but this is a really safe place to learn. And it was so freeing because it was somebody that I could go to and say, Hey, this is what I'm thinking for this, next thing. And have him be yes or no or whatever. But hey, you can make a mistake and you're not gonna get walked out.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I think that I went through this weird perfectionism phase of my career where I really felt like I couldn't make mistakes. And so to be told that, and I try to say that to my team members is, Hey, like this is a safe place to learn because that's, you don't want that perfectionist awful thing
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147No, I mean, everybody's gonna make mistakes over the course of time, and it's really how you respond to those issues. We talk about that a lot in our projects too. It's like you learn a lot from being in the trenches and, and overcoming the adversity of a snafu or some issue on a project. We talk a lot about how we're gonna learn from a mistake that we've made or an issue that's come up. And you know, as long as you, recognize only an issue if you don't recognize that it was an issue that that it was a mistake or that it's something you need to work on. So,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147that you felt like you had to hide
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147right, which is not the culture we wanna have here. We want everyone to feel like they can, you know, comfort forward.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147that in any technology role is no hiding.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147no.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147So there's something that I kept thinking of as talking about this, and I think that this is a good kind of segue into what can people do, right? For people interested in it careers, like how can they get started? And I feel like it's one of, the thing I wanna lead with is Translates into confidence and experience, whether or not it's successful. A a project or something that you've succeeded in or failed in, you will gain confidence from that. It doesn't even matter if you fail'cause you just know you're not gonna do it that way again.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And so I think that's part of, what we're talking about is really being able to step into it. So what do you think, how can people get started then?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I think being very open-minded and curious, to be honest with you. I think going in with not a, a set direction on exactly what it has to be is really important because I think there's so many different paths and ways that you can get there. One of the things I've talked with a lot of my colleagues about recently is just jumping in and, and being, you know. I would say in person, but you know, really being with your colleagues and, and learning from people in person is, is the way that I would suggest people get in if they don't have a technical background. Use the skills you learned in whatever your experience has been and bring that to whatever technology field you wanna get into. I think that we all suffered a little bit from, the stay at home and, work from home aspects. And I really, we've always been big advocates here for hybrid work, but I think the important factor is that. You do have interactions with your colleagues, you do get, that experience with, the technical experts. It's hard to get that if you're just on the other end of a phone. It's really difficult to get that if you're not on site, if you're not in those meetings, if you're not asking the questions. And I think sometimes people don't feel like they can ask the questions because they are, a remote participant. So I'd say just in general. Be curious and take some jobs and some roles that maybe are outside of your comfort zone to see if it's a good fit, to be honest.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I love that. And every time you say Be curious, I light up because that's one of our core values. That is one of the things that we look at when we're hiring people. And when you're starting in some of the, entry level roles of it, which for me, for 10 Tech, that could mean desktop support or remote phone support. It could mean project coordination. If not management yet coordination, it could mean and that's like in our client success team. And it could mean, any other kind of coordinator, whether it's marketing or a sales coordinator. So that curiosity I think is such a great step.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147it's interesting because, for what we do, you don't get a degree in workplace technology from a,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147right.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147right. So everyone we're hiring here has come from some, tangential background, right? They didn't, they didn't study this. And one of the things we've learned throughout, the many years of doing interviews here is that a lot of the successful people who make the transition to our company are hobbyists, are people who have a lot of interests. To, you know, are willing to get do some research and figure it out because that excites them.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Like independently,
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147100%. Yeah. In our, interview process, we have people interview with a variety of different roles here, right? So you might meet with the person from HR and marketing and our back office and a technical expert or some variation thereof, right? Part of that is just to figure out like, what do you like to do? In your free time, who are you as a person? Just to see if that would be a fit. Because I think that there's some things. In your personal interests or in your SC skills that will lend itself to technology. And so I think, you have to think outside of the box a little bit. A lot of the folks here came from the field. They came from doing installation for technology, but almost not a single person here, went to school for what we do. So you have to think outside the box.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147field work is interesting, right? Because it is technical. You do learn a lot, but you don't get a lot of the office, the backend, the project management, the, you don't get a lot of the why's.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147there's so much, like that's a fantastic transferrable skillset for what you guys are doing. But there's so much more that somebody could become more well-rounded with.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. And I think some things can be taught, right? So perhaps, you know, really technically. I think almost anything can be taught, even if you didn't go to school for it. So a lot of the things you're looking for are the soft skills, are the follow up and ambition are, you know, whether or not you can read a room, whether or not you can work with, with partners, whether you can, you know, work on a team like I, I think those, those pieces and parts are, are really important. I recently met with a client who reminded me that him and the two other people on their workplace team all went to school for hospitality. And I was like, oh.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Oh, I just got so excited.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147And I was like, that makes so much sense. They're working in workplace and in technology, really, the employees at the company are their, customers to them, right? And so they're providing a service. And so it's such a transferrable skill in hospitality to then work in construction or real estate or it, right, because it is a service that you're providing.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I was gonna say, we always look for so two things. One is the hobbyist aspect
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147two is the service aspect of
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yep.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And so when you talk to somebody, like I have quite literally, met people in their service roles, whether they were working at a mid to higher end restaurant, whether they were working at like a carrier, like whatever at and t or Sprint or T-Mobile. You get a chance to really see service from somebody. And there have absolutely been times where I've said things like, oh, so is this like, do you love serving? What do you wanna do with
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And quite literally poached people from these. Related, relatable service fields, they're IT people today, and I love that
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147That I think is so key and I do think that people probably are harder on themselves than they should be about what their technical skills need to be to get into the field, when in reality, a lot of it is just the willingness and the customer service aspect, the personality of what they bring to the table.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I love that this, there was this one guy, he worked at the Grill in San Jose and he was a Unix hobbyist. So this was like, you know, 15, 16, who's a Unix? I was a Unix admin. It's just such like a random hobbyist thing like we're talking about, and I'm like, oh, you're gonna be great at
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Well, I like to use my husband as an example because, he got a degree in film and cinematography, which was really a passion of his, and he used a lot of that and transferred that to being a software engineer. So now he's a contract worker for nasa. Not the same at all, but,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147the
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147but, you know, there's, there was a, a path to get there and I think the people just have to see that there. It's not gonna be the same for everybody, and there's gonna be a few little. Bumps and, and things to get there.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And it's funny to think about hobbies too, because coincidentally, and we do ask about hobbies, it's not like a make or by any means, but I will say that most of our team are musicians and
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147and like hobbyists some ways. And you're like, oh, that's funny. So when we talk about doing like tishi tech get togethers, I'm like, should, are we gonna have a TSI tech band? What's going
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah. Yep. Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Okay, so one of the, so we talked a little bit about being open, being willing, knowing service. was thinking too your story is very, indicative of a great way to do it. Like this idea that I'm gonna do some marketing, administration and marketing coordination. I was thinking too, like from my perspective, some of the ways would be like, an entry level service desk position, whether that's remote or in site, this project coordination keeps coming back to me because I feel like that's a lot of where I learned what it should look like is in project managing. Are there other things that you can think of where,'cause I'm thinking of, again, I get this question all the time. What can I do to get into it?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Those are the three roles I think of.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Well, I wish that I could like flip that around and be like, employers, what could you do to attract different kinds of talent to it? Right? Because
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I, so to talk about that, let's talk about that.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147yeah, because I think, that's where we're failing a little bit in the industry is just opening up our eyes a little bit to what, how we would recruit somebody to a position at a technology company or some something into it. Because I think there's this misconception that you do have to have a four year degree in some kind of computer science field in order to be in it. And I think we have to open that up and I think we need to. Honestly broadcast and market to a younger group of folks that this is a career choice earlier on. I've spent a lot of time in organizations trying to do the, just that get to the high school level and start planting those seeds to kids that, hey, construction or real estate, or it are things that you can, it's not the traditional, you know, doctor, lawyer, you know what I mean? There's other things that you can do. And what are the right, degrees or studies that they can go into that would still lend themselves to these other, paths. So I think that's part of it is employers getting out there and people in the industry really starting to send a message that they don't have to have these specific criteria in order to get into the field. Because I think that disqualifies a lot of really interesting individuals from getting into it.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147It's interesting'cause DEI is an interesting topic these days'cause it's really been maligned.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147one of the, I've done podcast episodes on focusing on DEI and how do you get that because I think most people would agree that diversity within a workplace is very good.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And it's a lot about kind of what you're talking about from an employer perspective in terms of what are we actually looking
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Is it the technical aptitude? Is it certifications, is it some of the softer skills, the service and those things that we've talked about. So as CEO of Teledata. What are some of the things that you guys do? And maybe it's even about how you list your jobs, but to get people more interested.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147it's difficult because we're kind of a niche business.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Right.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147a lot of our hires and our, who we end up interviewing come through referral because they know what we do and, we're out there. Constantly talking to people about the kinds of people that we wanna work with. We do highlight quite a bit the culture of the company just because that is an important aspect of what we do here, is just fitting in with what we do. So we spend a lot of time in our job descriptions and in our interview process, talking about not just what's expected of them technically or as part of their job description, but what the feeling is and what they're gonna bring to the team. I think I told you in our, our pre-discussion that we have like a. Like no toxicity policy basically, it's really trying to talk about the soft skills and the culture that you're gonna bring to the company. Of course, you know, for some of our subject matter expertise, we wanna know that they have the technical expertise as well. But a lot of it can, we, we are hiring folks who don't have that experience, that don't have a four year college degree or don't have education in specifically what we do here at teledata, but is relatable to what we're doing and project management is one of those things, right? Like just because you're technically very sound does not mean that you're a good project manager. Those two things don't necessarily go hand in hand.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147two things are not usually it at
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147No,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147It really, that's why you need that single pane of glass talking to all the
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147exactly.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And I mentioned the networking people, I
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147server architecture. I didn't, and a lot of that has changed right over time, just'cause of cloud, but it's still there. It's still 100% there, whether it's virtual or physical. So I think that part's interesting. It's funny because when we're talking about how employers can attract that, it's almost like we're talking about what employees also have to do at the same time. It's sort of intermingled because. If an employer can have a willingness to give somebody a shot, I think that's a big thing. And I also think if you are somebody looking for a shot, it's like know, know that you need to be open. Know that, you need to be curious. Know that. Here's a big one. I think for people know that you have to put the time in.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147100%. I kind of touched and alluded to it earlier, it's just. I spent a lot of time being somebody's shadow, just soaking up the knowledge. It is gonna take time. You do have to put the effort and the time in to learn. So be willing. You have to be willing to put that time in and be, you know, not the smartest person in most rooms. You know, it's soaking in from all the people who have been there before. So it is, that is an important aspect to it, and I think an important part to some, I'll say, like in person interaction with, with what you're doing.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147That's a big one. We talked, touched on this a little bit, COVID and everybody being remote it, it did something weird to our collective psyche for
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147There is something like, we joke about being non-IT, it people.'cause I mean I, I run this company, you run teledata we're like personal. I mean, if I do say so myself, but I'm serious, right?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I can have a conversation with anybody pretty much about anything because I'm curious and I love talking to people, right? That is not what people think of when they think of it. People or technical people.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I, I would agree. I would agree. And I think that's what sets us apart, Sarah, you know? Yeah. And I think it sets you apart in a few different aspects. Right. In, in technology, it sets you apart in what I would call traditional sales.'cause they're. Expecting in their mind a certain kind of individual to be selling you something, right? So if you're a person that is likable and honest and can make relationships easily or, or build relationships easy, that's going to help you in it. It's gonna help you in sales, it's gonna help you in hr, it's gonna help you in a variety of different aspects that are not, a taught thing for it probably right.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I know it almost is do you just need to be a nice person, a nice, curious, honest, we always say transparent.'cause when you make mistakes in it, it's really important to tell somebody right
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147you know?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147think, I mean this is coming from two people who I think are very similar in that regard, but yes, I do. I do think that's an important part of working in an industry long term. Any industry, honestly. Name,
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147any
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147name, whatever you want it to be. It's just that you, you bring to. Your organization or two year team, that exact kind of methodology of, of being honest and transparent and being a good person. Because then you're gonna have longevity in the industry. I joke here that even though Silicon Valley is really large, it's very small. Like people in the industry know each other, right? Like, think of how many people we realized we know, right? In order to have a long career in it, in a, you know, a certain area you do, you have to be a nice person. Otherwise it's gonna we you out very quickly'cause people are not going to trust you. So it is a, I think, important factor in what you bring when you're coming to a new employer.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And you talked about this too, this kind of no toxicity rule that you have, and we laughed about that too because we had this really, I just remember it so vividly. It was 2021. We just said, you know what? We're done with it. We don't want toxic people on our team and we don't wanna work with toxic clients. And we had to make changes.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147and letting a client go because they're difficult to work with is not something you want to be doing very often, but, oh man. Does your team love you for that?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I think the qualification goes both ways. I think when you're an employer and a new hire you are qualifying each other in that interview process just should go both ways, right? It shouldn't just be one interview the prospective employee should also be, and I think the same with a client and a partner or a service provider. It's making sure it's a good fit. And it's not that anybody's a bad person per se, it just might not be a good cultural fit. And so you wanna make sure that. It's gonna work for everybody long term. That's why I kind of the preliminary discovery phase and a lot of the engagements.'cause then you get to, as we joke here, like date before you marry a little bit, you get to know each other and you're like, okay, this is how it's gonna work. And now that we've got a rhythm, we can do lots of projects. Right. So I think that's an important factor for sure.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, and do think there's a lot of effort that goes into getting to know people.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147And getting to figure that out. And by the way, I'm not saying you have to be like super sweet, like that kind of person, like when you're working with us, it's like, it is about let me get to know
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147to know your quirks, let me get to know how to coach people in working with you. It's all this, it's all like getting, to know people like you're saying, what's the one that I love? There's a have you heard this term when you're like starting a project, you go through these phases, it's forming. Storming, norming and performing. So warming the team. I love
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I just learned this like a couple years ago and I was like, that's exactly what it looks like when you're starting to work with new people, right? So you're you've start putting a team together. So you're forming a team and then there's this really stormy period because you're just getting to know each other. You're trying to, again. Learn each other's quirks, learn what's really important to each other, figure that out. And all of a sudden you start to normalize that, right? You get to know, okay, Sarah's a, loud mouth or whatever it is, I don't know. And then all of a sudden, you guys can work together'cause each other and now you're performing. But that's a nice way, I think, because it doesn't count out this idea that you're gonna go through some stormy.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147think when somebody is working with a consultant or a partner in that regard, like I, I think they're hiring you because you bring something to the table that they don't have, so to just. Agree with everything they say is not bringing any value, right? Like if you need to push back, you need to push back. Actually, I wouldn't do this, here's why. In our experience we've done this, like there's gonna be some moments where there might be some tension like, oh man, they really pushed back on that. Or there was some tension about decisions that need to be made. But that's, that's part of the relationship, that's part of how it works, is, is that you are bringing your experiences to that table and they're not always gonna be the same.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Right, and we talk about that too, as Hey, you're not hiring me to tell me what you
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147You're hiring me to tell me what you need. See, we could have a whole conversation
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147know.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147With this kind of last thing, so we talked a lot about kind of for employers, like how do I think we didn't talk about it this specifically, but how do you know who to take a shot on? Let's say you're not 10 tech you're not teledata, you're another employer that really hasn't focused on the personality aspects of a
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147mm-hmm.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147What's a kind of good baseline set of things to look at who do you, who would you take a shot on?
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Well somebody who was referred to me would be the number one, so I would cast a net. If I were an employer looking for an employee, I would cast the net out to my network first. The network is gonna know you the best, know what you're looking for, more than anyone else is going to, and not to, you know. Say anything negative about recruiters, but they're not gonna know the same as people who know you in the industry. So that would be my first, is like, you know, start asking people that you know in your network about what you're looking for so that you can get some referrals. And I think that's the first, because they're gonna know, yes, technically, but also personality-wise, what's gonna work. So that would be the first is just, you know, cast in that out to the people that you know. I think then is, you know. Have a variety of people support the interview process. We have at least three people interview every person that comes through here, and we usually have a couple rounds of interviews just so that we can get a, a different perspective from different people within the business. So I would say, you know, just make sure that you're interviewing for a, for, if it's for a technical role, make sure somebody non-technical also interviews that individual. And then what you should be looking for, honestly is just, you know, good, good fit. You know, like, can, are they, are they open to learning? Because that's gonna be hard to assess, but I think be able to know, like, are you open to something new? Right. And then the personality of what they can bring to the table, you know, because I think a lot of the soft skills you can ask around in an interview and understand like, you know. How personable are they in a group setting or what kinds of strategies do they bring to project management? There's a lot of things that you can ask that are not the IT specific or construction specific or whatever it might be that are gonna give you an idea of what they can bring to the team as a whole.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147The other thing that came to mind too,'cause it sounds like Teledata has been really good at this and 10 Tech has put a significant amount of effort into figuring this out as well, is really spend time thinking about your career pathing internally. So like we know if somebody starts an X role, they actually could branch off in, Y and Z and then it, once they're in Y, they can figure out, is this what they like? And then they can continue up that.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147you guys have done a lot of that, it
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah, well, in an organization like ours, we wear a lot of hats and that gives people the opportunity to try a lot of things out. So that's how we can logically help people determine like, okay, is that the next step or is it actually this other thing? So put on this hat. Are you doing design put on this hat? Are you doing project coordination? Put, you know, so we give people the opportunity to try out a lot of things. Hey, do you wanna be on the business development side and attending events and doing marketing? We, we give people the opportunity to try a lot of things and wear a lot of hats in order to then direct them onto the next step because there's nothing worse than hiring somebody or putting someone on a path and then very quickly realizing that it's not the right one and feeling like it's a failure because you went the wrong way, when in reality you could redirect to something else that's a better fit. So we spend a lot of time on the person, like, who do we have here that can fill this role and not the other way around, you know, like how can we direct them in the thing that fits best for them. So that's how we do a lot of it, is just try a lot of things out. I'm still involved in projects. I'm still doing stuff on the marketing and business development side. So I think just wearing those hats gives people the opportunity to make a different pivot.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I love it. Nicole, this has been so
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147Yeah.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147I feel like we could talk on. A bunch of different topics and we can go for hours and hours. This was really a fantastic conversation. Congratulations on your role.
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147you.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147so excited to know you. again, we know a lot of the same people, but have never bumped into each
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147But it's really fun to have this connection. I look forward to having more conversations with you
nichole-robertson--she-her-_1_04-18-2025_110147I've had a tremendous time hanging out and chatting about all the things we've talked about over the last couple weeks, so thank you so much for the opportunity to be on your podcast and hopefully we can do something again in the future.
sarah_1_04-18-2025_110147Absolutely.