{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":0.049,"endTime":3.11,"body":"Hello everyone and welcome"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":0.049,"endTime":3.11,"body":"to this edition of Built Environment"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":3.11,"endTime":5.059,"body":"Matters, the Bryden Wood podcast."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":5.419,"endTime":9.529,"body":"I'm Adam Jordan, Asia-Pacific Lead"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":5.419,"endTime":9.529,"body":"for Bryden Wood based in Sydney."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":9.799,"endTime":13.37,"body":"And this month we're very pleased to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":9.799,"endTime":13.37,"body":"be joined by Professor Jennifer Whyte."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":13.605,"endTime":17.144,"body":"Professor Jennifer Whyte works with"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":13.605,"endTime":17.144,"body":"project leaders and sponsors to take"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":17.144,"endTime":21.434,"body":"forward a vision of projects and their"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":17.144,"endTime":21.434,"body":"leadership encompassing the whole process"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":21.434,"endTime":23.634,"body":"of value creation and realisation."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":24.044,"endTime":28.244,"body":"This builds on her research interests in"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":24.044,"endTime":28.244,"body":"future making, delivery of large scale"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":28.244,"endTime":34.004,"body":"projects, systems integration, digital"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":28.244,"endTime":34.004,"body":"delivery, how leadership is distributed"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":34.244,"endTime":35.654,"body":"and how teams achieve outcomes."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":36.629,"endTime":39.839,"body":"She is Director of the John Grill"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":36.629,"endTime":39.839,"body":"Institute for Project Leadership at"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":39.839,"endTime":43.349,"body":"the University of Sydney and retains"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":39.839,"endTime":43.349,"body":"her position at the Centre for"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":43.349,"endTime":47.519,"body":"Systems Engineering and Innovation and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":43.349,"endTime":47.519,"body":"Department of Civil and Environmental"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":47.519,"endTime":49.739,"body":"Engineering at Imperial College London."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":50.339,"endTime":53.909,"body":"A fellow of the Institution of Civil"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":50.339,"endTime":53.909,"body":"Engineers, Jennifer was Shimizu"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":53.909,"endTime":57.569,"body":"Visiting Professor in the Department"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":53.909,"endTime":57.569,"body":"of Civil and Environmental Engineering"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":57.779,"endTime":60.479,"body":"at Stanford University in 2015."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":61.269,"endTime":64.779,"body":"She is on the Construction Leadership"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":61.269,"endTime":64.779,"body":"Council and the Advisory Board"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":64.779,"endTime":67.971,"body":"for the Transforming Construction"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":64.779,"endTime":67.971,"body":"Industry Challenge in addition to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":67.971,"endTime":69.741,"body":"other panels and steering groups."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":70.011,"endTime":73.881,"body":"She gave evidence to the UK Lords"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":70.011,"endTime":73.881,"body":"select committee inquiry on offsite"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":73.881,"endTime":78.201,"body":"manufacturing for construction in"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":73.881,"endTime":78.201,"body":"2018, and worked with infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":78.201,"endTime":82.221,"body":"owners through the infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":78.201,"endTime":82.221,"body":"UK client working group, Project 13,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":82.461,"endTime":84.741,"body":"collaborative project teams program."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":85.161,"endTime":86.091,"body":"Welcome Jennifer."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":86.539,"endTime":87.459,"body":"Thank you Adam."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":87.809,"endTime":88.769,"body":"I'm pleased to be here."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":89.31,"endTime":92.34,"body":"We have actually met"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":89.31,"endTime":92.34,"body":"before, we worked together in Hong"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":92.34,"endTime":96.09,"body":"Kong, back in your Imperial days,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":92.34,"endTime":96.09,"body":"I have very fond memories of it."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":96.598,"endTime":102.036,"body":"I'm also a Sydney sider, so I wanted to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":96.598,"endTime":102.036,"body":"start by asking you what brought you to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":102.036,"endTime":104.116,"body":"Sydney and how are you settling in so far?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":104.575,"endTime":108.485,"body":"Well, the opportunity to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":104.575,"endTime":108.485,"body":"be Head of School of Project Management"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":108.515,"endTime":112.235,"body":"and Director of the John Grill Institute"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":108.515,"endTime":112.235,"body":"for Project Leadership brought me here."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":112.655,"endTime":116.962,"body":"Now there seemed to be a real"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":112.655,"endTime":116.962,"body":"opportunity to build on the capability"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":116.962,"endTime":123.536,"body":"that there is in Sydney, around,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":116.962,"endTime":123.536,"body":"project and to  help transform the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":123.536,"endTime":125.996,"body":"industry in Australia and globally."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":126.296,"endTime":128.636,"body":"And that's something that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":126.296,"endTime":128.636,"body":"I'm passionate about."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":129.533,"endTime":131.753,"body":"What are your thoughts"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":129.533,"endTime":131.753,"body":"on the construction sector in"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":131.753,"endTime":135.683,"body":"Australia in New South Wales, I guess"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":131.753,"endTime":135.683,"body":"specifically, but Australia more"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":135.683,"endTime":140.283,"body":"generally, and how it compares to your"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":135.683,"endTime":140.283,"body":"experience in the UK and elsewhere."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":140.822,"endTime":143.35,"body":"Well, I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":140.822,"endTime":143.35,"body":"in both Australia and in the UK,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":143.35,"endTime":146.44,"body":"there are pockets of excellence."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":146.53,"endTime":153.984,"body":"And then there's also policymakers that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":146.53,"endTime":153.984,"body":"are really focused on delivering outcomes."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":154.039,"endTime":158.438,"body":"And that's really strongly how I believe"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":154.039,"endTime":158.438,"body":"that the industry needs to move forward"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":158.468,"endTime":164.948,"body":"to think about how do we deliver projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":158.468,"endTime":164.948,"body":"as interventions into infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":164.948,"endTime":170.498,"body":"systems and what kind of production"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":164.948,"endTime":170.498,"body":"process do we need to deliver to that?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":170.598,"endTime":172.488,"body":"That's why I was involved"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":170.598,"endTime":172.488,"body":"in the transforming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":172.488,"endTime":174.228,"body":"construction agenda in the UK."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":174.588,"endTime":178.874,"body":"And it's why I'm interested"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":174.588,"endTime":178.874,"body":"in,   how things like digital"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":179.959,"endTime":183.419,"body":"technologies are transforming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":179.959,"endTime":183.419,"body":"the delivery of major projects."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":183.455,"endTime":188.316,"body":"And really getting to know some of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":183.455,"endTime":188.316,"body":"the major projects in Sydney and I'm"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":188.316,"endTime":193.626,"body":"interested in how do we learn across those"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":188.316,"endTime":193.626,"body":"projects and how do we create a, what I'd"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":193.626,"endTime":197.826,"body":"call a kind of mega project ecology to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":193.626,"endTime":197.826,"body":"learn across for the projects that are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":197.826,"endTime":202.056,"body":"being delivered because I think a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":197.826,"endTime":202.056,"body":"the innovation challenges that we face"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":202.056,"endTime":204.826,"body":"as an industry are systemic challenges."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":204.936,"endTime":209.466,"body":"And so they require different bits"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":204.936,"endTime":209.466,"body":"of the industry to work together."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":209.466,"endTime":216.489,"body":"They require government and the research"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":209.466,"endTime":216.489,"body":"base and policy makers and practitioners"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":216.519,"endTime":222.074,"body":"working on projects to collaborate, to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":216.519,"endTime":222.074,"body":"understand how to transform the sector."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":222.204,"endTime":223.614,"body":"It's easy sometimes to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":223.644,"endTime":224.009,"body":"um,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":224.059,"endTime":226.939,"body":"just do the same thing"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":224.059,"endTime":226.939,"body":"every time, even if you know that it"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":226.939,"endTime":230.389,"body":"didn't work perfectly well the first"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":226.939,"endTime":230.389,"body":"time, just to do it again, because"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":230.389,"endTime":231.799,"body":"that's the devil you know, right."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":231.849,"endTime":235.769,"body":"Rather than changing direction, you"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":231.849,"endTime":235.769,"body":"follow the same path over and over again."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":235.769,"endTime":238.239,"body":"So, do you find that it's"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":235.769,"endTime":238.239,"body":"a difficult ship to steer?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":238.259,"endTime":241.319,"body":"Is it slow to change or are"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":238.259,"endTime":241.319,"body":"you seeing promising signs?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":242.122,"endTime":245.002,"body":"I think there are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":242.122,"endTime":245.002,"body":"promising signs Adam and of course"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":245.002,"endTime":248.982,"body":"there are, but I actually think that we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":245.002,"endTime":248.982,"body":"need to be shifting much faster than we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":248.982,"endTime":254.596,"body":"are doing, given the, given the really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":248.982,"endTime":254.596,"body":"large challenges that we face around"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":254.836,"endTime":257.206,"body":"creating sustainable infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":257.236,"endTime":261.604,"body":"I think it was a real mindset set shift"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":257.236,"endTime":261.604,"body":"and I'm very focused on that kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":261.634,"endTime":267.034,"body":"project initiation, frontend, working"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":261.634,"endTime":267.034,"body":"with infrastructure clients, to understand"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":267.034,"endTime":271.834,"body":"how to set projects up, to deliver"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":267.034,"endTime":271.834,"body":"the kind of outcomes that they need,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":271.864,"endTime":276.861,"body":"because for us to have sustainable,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":271.864,"endTime":276.861,"body":"resilient, just futures, I think we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":276.861,"endTime":281.211,"body":"really need to shift our mindset faster"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":276.861,"endTime":281.211,"body":"than we are doing around infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":281.992,"endTime":285.506,"body":"Yeah, it's promising"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":281.992,"endTime":285.506,"body":"signs and starting to  change, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":285.556,"endTime":287.686,"body":"where do you think that initial"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":285.556,"endTime":287.686,"body":"change is going to come from?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":287.746,"endTime":291.316,"body":"Is it policy driven or is"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":287.746,"endTime":291.316,"body":"it private sector driven?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":291.316,"endTime":295.086,"body":"Is this going to be companies stepping"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":291.316,"endTime":295.086,"body":"up in the industry,  or is it going to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":295.086,"endTime":297.966,"body":"be something that's did by government"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":295.086,"endTime":297.966,"body":"or is it going to be a bit of both?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":298.474,"endTime":300.464,"body":"Well,  I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":298.474,"endTime":300.464,"body":"there's a bit of both, certainly"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":300.464,"endTime":302.324,"body":"in both the UK and Australia."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":302.529,"endTime":307.612,"body":"We've done some work in Asia and places"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":302.529,"endTime":307.612,"body":"like Singapore have a very strong"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":307.661,"endTime":311.791,"body":"Building and Construction Authority,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":307.661,"endTime":311.791,"body":"so have strong support, public support."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":311.801,"endTime":316.093,"body":"I've also done a bit of work with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":311.801,"endTime":316.093,"body":"colleagues looking at the west coast of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":316.093,"endTime":321.213,"body":"the US where there's more of an investment"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":316.093,"endTime":321.213,"body":"culture and more of a startup culture."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":321.562,"endTime":325.114,"body":"And so there's different drivers"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":321.562,"endTime":325.114,"body":"and different supports for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":325.114,"endTime":326.794,"body":"innovation in those places."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":327.414,"endTime":331.035,"body":"I think in all of those places there"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":327.414,"endTime":331.035,"body":"are companies like Bryden Wood that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":331.035,"endTime":336.592,"body":"are really pioneering and driving paths"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":331.035,"endTime":336.592,"body":"and and pushing governments to think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":336.592,"endTime":338.272,"body":"about infrastructure in different ways."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":338.272,"endTime":341.846,"body":"So I think   the government"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":338.272,"endTime":341.846,"body":"is a pretty slow sort of oil"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":341.846,"endTime":343.706,"body":"tanker to kind of shift, right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":343.706,"endTime":346.62,"body":"I don't know if oil tanker is the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":343.706,"endTime":346.62,"body":"right analogy   but it's quite"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":346.62,"endTime":349.47,"body":"a heavy organisation to shift."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":349.531,"endTime":353.611,"body":"I think it's necessary to shift government"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":349.531,"endTime":353.611,"body":"in many places around the world because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":353.611,"endTime":356.671,"body":"they're a big client of infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":356.677,"endTime":359.933,"body":"But I think companies in the supply"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":356.677,"endTime":359.933,"body":"chain that are doing innovative"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":359.933,"endTime":361.883,"body":"things are really pushing for that."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":361.952,"endTime":364.712,"body":"Should governments"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":361.952,"endTime":364.712,"body":"be talking to each other more?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":364.768,"endTime":367.828,"body":"Do you think that conversation is"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":364.768,"endTime":367.828,"body":"happening as much as it could be?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":368.893,"endTime":372.149,"body":"Yeah, I've just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":368.893,"endTime":372.149,"body":"joined the academic board for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":372.153,"endTime":373.833,"body":"the Global Infrastructure Hub."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":373.833,"endTime":378.886,"body":"And they're really playing a role in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":373.833,"endTime":378.886,"body":"talking to the G20 and thinking about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":378.886,"endTime":383.881,"body":"infrastructure across the G20, so I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":378.886,"endTime":383.881,"body":"think there are some mechanisms both"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":383.881,"endTime":387.421,"body":"through the Global Infrastructure Hub"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":383.881,"endTime":387.421,"body":"and through the World Economic Forum,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":387.721,"endTime":391.688,"body":"that's beginning to share best practice"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":387.721,"endTime":391.688,"body":"around governments across the globe."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":392.048,"endTime":395.794,"body":"And given that the challenges"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":392.048,"endTime":395.794,"body":"that we face affect all of us"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":395.854,"endTime":397.55,"body":"wherever we we're situated."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":397.621,"endTime":402.101,"body":"I think that's absolutely important  that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":397.621,"endTime":402.101,"body":"we're starting to think about that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":402.341,"endTime":405.671,"body":"They will play out slightly differently"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":402.341,"endTime":405.671,"body":"in different places than in developing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":405.671,"endTime":406.991,"body":"countries and developed countries."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":407.201,"endTime":410.833,"body":"There are different drivers,  but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":407.201,"endTime":410.833,"body":"I think the global sharing of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":410.833,"endTime":414.343,"body":"information is important because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":410.833,"endTime":414.343,"body":"our big challenges are around things"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":414.343,"endTime":416.183,"body":"like sustainability and resilience."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":416.658,"endTime":419.837,"body":"In Australia, unlike"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":416.658,"endTime":419.837,"body":"the UK where you have a central"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":419.837,"endTime":423.997,"body":"government that dictates policy"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":419.837,"endTime":423.997,"body":"and steers the whole nation."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":423.997,"endTime":427.927,"body":"It's really up to individual states and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":423.997,"endTime":427.927,"body":"everyone is taking a slightly different"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":427.927,"endTime":433.037,"body":"path, which does make things a little bit"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":427.927,"endTime":433.037,"body":"more confusing than maybe would be ideal."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":433.037,"endTime":436.494,"body":"But do you think, is that something"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":433.037,"endTime":436.494,"body":"that you're a part of too that, how that"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":436.494,"endTime":438.485,"body":"state-by-state conversation is going?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":439.138,"endTime":441.658,"body":"I'm learning how"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":439.138,"endTime":441.658,"body":"that state-by-state conversation is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":441.658,"endTime":445.868,"body":"going and looking at what  projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":441.658,"endTime":445.868,"body":"Victoria are doing, for example, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":445.898,"endTime":447.948,"body":"what we're doing in New South Wales."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":448.378,"endTime":452.578,"body":"I would say actually there's something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":448.378,"endTime":452.578,"body":"similar in the UK because the devolved"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":452.578,"endTime":457.27,"body":"governments have invested differently"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":452.578,"endTime":457.27,"body":"And R and D support for construction."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":457.27,"endTime":460.487,"body":"And so in Scotland there's work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":457.27,"endTime":460.487,"body":"going on that people are looking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":460.487,"endTime":462.539,"body":"at in London and and so on."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":462.539,"endTime":466.468,"body":"And so I think, I think actually"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":462.539,"endTime":466.468,"body":"that, that diversity of approaches"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":466.468,"endTime":470.427,"body":"can be quite helpful because it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":466.468,"endTime":470.427,"body":"allows you to compare and contrast"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":470.427,"endTime":471.834,"body":"what's working and not working."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":471.844,"endTime":475.384,"body":"We're thinking with our bit of work on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":471.844,"endTime":475.384,"body":"the megaproject ecology to start to look"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":475.384,"endTime":477.696,"body":"at  those different innovation systems."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":478.036,"endTime":482.6,"body":"I really think for the kinds of systemic"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":478.036,"endTime":482.6,"body":"innovation that we need in construction"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":482.65,"endTime":487.462,"body":"those supports that are  not at a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":482.65,"endTime":487.462,"body":"project level, but at a program or"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":487.462,"endTime":493.038,"body":"portfolio level or innovation ecosystem"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":487.462,"endTime":493.038,"body":"level become really important because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":493.281,"endTime":497.181,"body":"they require different actors in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":493.281,"endTime":497.181,"body":"supply chain to change at the same time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":497.781,"endTime":501.546,"body":"If you want to introduce, for example,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":497.781,"endTime":501.546,"body":"modern methods of construction, off"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":501.566,"endTime":507.461,"body":"site methods of construction, then"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":501.566,"endTime":507.461,"body":"that requires change from clients, it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":507.461,"endTime":510.431,"body":"requires change from the supply chain."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":510.431,"endTime":513.609,"body":"It requires a lot of players"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":510.431,"endTime":513.609,"body":"to change at the same time."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":513.609,"endTime":516.789,"body":"And in the UK, the Transforming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":513.609,"endTime":516.789,"body":"Construction agenda has really tried"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":516.789,"endTime":522.094,"body":"to foster that change, but for me, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":516.789,"endTime":522.094,"body":"those mechanisms that are above a project"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":522.124,"endTime":526.104,"body":"that become really important in allowing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":522.124,"endTime":526.104,"body":"that kind of innovation to happen."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":526.307,"endTime":530.728,"body":"The industry needs to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":526.307,"endTime":530.728,"body":"actually see a pipeline of demand coming"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":530.728,"endTime":535.198,"body":"through to justify the investment required"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":530.728,"endTime":535.198,"body":"to I guess, do things in a different way."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":535.198,"endTime":537.508,"body":"So that's something that's quite"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":535.198,"endTime":537.508,"body":"challenging, but in Australia"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":537.508,"endTime":539.188,"body":"we do have those megaprojects."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":539.188,"endTime":543.79,"body":"So, is that where you see the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":539.188,"endTime":543.79,"body":"opportunity in terms of the scale of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":544.334,"endTime":548.684,"body":"project procurement that's necessary"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":544.334,"endTime":548.684,"body":"to drive that industry change."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":548.946,"endTime":550.836,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":548.946,"endTime":550.836,"body":"there are real opportunities in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":550.836,"endTime":554.496,"body":"Australia to get procurement on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":550.836,"endTime":554.496,"body":"that pipeline of projects right."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":554.508,"endTime":558.231,"body":"There are challenges around skills"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":554.508,"endTime":558.231,"body":"and that pushes you in the direction"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":558.231,"endTime":561.501,"body":"of looking at more automation and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":558.231,"endTime":561.501,"body":"more modern methods of construction."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":561.501,"endTime":563.676,"body":"And so I think there"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":561.501,"endTime":563.676,"body":"are real opportunities."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":563.692,"endTime":567.541,"body":"You've talked a lot"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":563.692,"endTime":567.541,"body":"about innovation already in our chat."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":567.555,"endTime":571.545,"body":"Where do you think innovation is"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":567.555,"endTime":571.545,"body":"most important in construction?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":571.545,"endTime":577.012,"body":"What specific areas of projects do"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":571.545,"endTime":577.012,"body":"you think are ripe for innovating"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":577.012,"endTime":578.232,"body":"and how do we foster that?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":578.232,"endTime":579.522,"body":"How are we going to develop that?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":580.54,"endTime":580.99,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":581.058,"endTime":584.201,"body":"I think our relationship"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":581.058,"endTime":584.201,"body":"with the supply base."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":584.201,"endTime":590.151,"body":"So how will we think about delivering in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":584.201,"endTime":590.151,"body":"modular ways and therefore the digitally"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":590.151,"endTime":593.931,"body":"enabled product platforms that allow"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":590.151,"endTime":593.931,"body":"you to think about libraries of kits of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":593.931,"endTime":598.746,"body":"parts become quite important, then they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":593.931,"endTime":598.746,"body":"allow you to innovate in a different way."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":598.746,"endTime":603.609,"body":"So to think about how you're configuring"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":598.746,"endTime":603.609,"body":"predefined modules in innovative"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":603.609,"endTime":607.299,"body":"ways, rather than designing everything"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":603.609,"endTime":607.299,"body":"from scratch on every project."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":607.299,"endTime":612.699,"body":"So  that mindset shift away from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":607.299,"endTime":612.699,"body":"starting with a blank sheet of paper"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":612.699,"endTime":616.189,"body":"to starting with data sets about usage."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":616.228,"endTime":619.251,"body":"Thinking about your project as an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":616.228,"endTime":619.251,"body":"intervention into an infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":619.251,"endTime":622.771,"body":"system, and thinking about your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":619.251,"endTime":622.771,"body":"relationship with the supply basis is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":622.881,"endTime":627.833,"body":"stuff that we've looked at,  really driven"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":622.881,"endTime":627.833,"body":"by my work on how digital information"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":627.833,"endTime":632.243,"body":"is transforming the delivery of major"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":627.833,"endTime":632.243,"body":"projects, because what digital information"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":632.243,"endTime":636.765,"body":"has done is, it's, brought different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":632.243,"endTime":636.765,"body":"parts of that process into contact"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":636.785,"endTime":640.895,"body":"in a way that they never were before"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":636.785,"endTime":640.895,"body":"they've made it possible to engage with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":640.895,"endTime":642.635,"body":"the supply chain in a different way."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":642.661,"endTime":646.171,"body":"They've made it possible to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":642.661,"endTime":646.171,"body":"understand your users and your"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":646.171,"endTime":647.731,"body":"end users in a different way."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":647.79,"endTime":651.841,"body":"They've changed the relationship"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":647.79,"endTime":651.841,"body":"between what projects deliver most"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":651.841,"endTime":655.501,"body":"projects now don't just deliver"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":651.841,"endTime":655.501,"body":"physical infrastructure, they also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":655.501,"endTime":658.441,"body":"deliver a digital twin into operations."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":658.441,"endTime":663.896,"body":"And so that digital information I think,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":658.441,"endTime":663.896,"body":"is an area that's really precipitated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":663.896,"endTime":667.106,"body":"a whole series of innovations in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":663.896,"endTime":667.106,"body":"infrastructure and in construction."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":667.12,"endTime":671.92,"body":"I think there's real opportunities"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":667.12,"endTime":671.92,"body":"around how we visualise those datasets"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":671.943,"endTime":677.162,"body":"and data on its own is not enough and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":671.943,"endTime":677.162,"body":"as we get larger and larger datasets I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":677.162,"endTime":681.412,"body":"believe that the visualisation of those"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":677.162,"endTime":681.412,"body":"to make decisions become important."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":681.426,"endTime":683.226,"body":"So there's a kind of set of challenges."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":683.586,"endTime":688.296,"body":"We did some work a while ago with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":683.586,"endTime":688.296,"body":"Crossrail and CERN and Airbus, and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":688.506,"endTime":692.765,"body":"brought them together to look at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":688.506,"endTime":692.765,"body":"challenges of managing in a world"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":692.765,"endTime":696.635,"body":"of large data sets and, you know , I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":692.765,"endTime":696.635,"body":"think how you manage change in those"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":696.635,"endTime":700.554,"body":"data sets is something that 's an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":696.635,"endTime":700.554,"body":"area we still need to innovate in."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":700.583,"endTime":704.563,"body":"The digitally enabled product platforms,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":700.583,"endTime":704.563,"body":"I think have a big role to play."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":704.616,"endTime":709.036,"body":"How we visualize that information and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":704.616,"endTime":709.036,"body":"engage with stakeholders and the role"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":709.036,"endTime":713.068,"body":"of stakeholders in projects,  these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":709.036,"endTime":713.068,"body":"are all areas where there's significant"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":713.068,"endTime":715.443,"body":"need for opportunities for innovation."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":716.379,"endTime":720.669,"body":"Yeah, the digital"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":716.379,"endTime":720.669,"body":"landscape is just evolving so quickly."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":720.669,"endTime":724.329,"body":"I think it's my number one kind of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":720.669,"endTime":724.329,"body":"impression of the construction industry"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":724.329,"endTime":728.889,"body":"or my experience is how radically"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":724.329,"endTime":728.889,"body":"the industry has been transformed"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":728.889,"endTime":731.469,"body":"by digital technology over time."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":731.499,"endTime":736.239,"body":"And in a lot of ways, I think the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":731.499,"endTime":736.239,"body":"digital technology is evolving"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":736.239,"endTime":741.034,"body":"faster than behaviour is evolving,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":736.239,"endTime":741.034,"body":"which is a problem, right?, because"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":741.056,"endTime":745.063,"body":"you said digital technology enables"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":741.056,"endTime":745.063,"body":"different stakeholders to engage with"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":745.063,"endTime":746.653,"body":"the supply chain in different ways."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":746.653,"endTime":750.973,"body":"But I think maybe what's happening"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":746.653,"endTime":750.973,"body":"sometimes is that the new digital tools"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":750.973,"endTime":754.937,"body":"and the innovations that are coming in,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":750.973,"endTime":754.937,"body":"but  those relationships aren't changing"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":755.237,"endTime":760.367,"body":"and people are trying to deliver a project"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":755.237,"endTime":760.367,"body":"in the old way, using the new tools and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":760.367,"endTime":762.677,"body":"you get this kind of a stumbling block."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":762.947,"endTime":764.027,"body":"How do we unlock that?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":764.107,"endTime":765.157,"body":"Are we going too fast?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":765.157,"endTime":766.507,"body":"Is it better to slow down?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":766.507,"endTime":770.679,"body":"I mean, are we kind of failing to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":766.507,"endTime":770.679,"body":"take full advantage of the capability"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":770.679,"endTime":772.389,"body":"of digital technology today?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":772.444,"endTime":773.584,"body":"We're not going too fast."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":773.614,"endTime":777.304,"body":"So I think other industries are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":773.614,"endTime":777.304,"body":"taking up digital technology faster"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":777.304,"endTime":778.774,"body":"than the construction sector is."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":778.972,"endTime":784.804,"body":"But I do see data scientists, for example,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":778.972,"endTime":784.804,"body":"now being employed in construction."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":785.284,"endTime":789.234,"body":"And I think project analytics is an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":785.284,"endTime":789.234,"body":"area in which we're very interested"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":789.24,"endTime":792.38,"body":"in doing research, but it's also"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":789.24,"endTime":792.38,"body":"beginning to be an area in which"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":792.38,"endTime":794.427,"body":"practices and beginning to engage."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":794.427,"endTime":797.823,"body":"There are beginning to be new"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":794.427,"endTime":797.823,"body":"companies forming in this sort of area."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":797.826,"endTime":802.112,"body":"There's beginning to be interest in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":797.826,"endTime":802.112,"body":"putting various forms of what I call"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":802.112,"endTime":804.082,"body":"project analytics into projects."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":804.082,"endTime":809.33,"body":"So taking data in and analysing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":804.082,"endTime":809.33,"body":"it in various data-driven ways."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":809.359,"endTime":813.509,"body":"And that's something that has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":809.359,"endTime":813.509,"body":"changed over the last few years."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":813.69,"endTime":818.258,"body":"So I think for a while, we talked about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":813.69,"endTime":818.258,"body":"doing BIM to enable collaboration."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":818.258,"endTime":822.348,"body":"And then we talked about collaboration"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":818.258,"endTime":822.348,"body":"to enable BIM and digital twins as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":822.398,"endTime":826.218,"body":"deliverables and now I think  using"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":822.398,"endTime":826.218,"body":"that data in different ways for various"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":826.218,"endTime":829.801,"body":"forms of analytics becomes really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":826.218,"endTime":829.801,"body":"where the innovation is going on."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":830.318,"endTime":833.108,"body":"And BIM stops being the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":830.318,"endTime":833.108,"body":"centre of everything, doesn't it a little"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":833.108,"endTime":835.038,"body":"bit as we start to go in this path."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":835.078,"endTime":839.121,"body":"A few years ago  BIM was the  digital"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":835.078,"endTime":839.121,"body":"future of construction and now"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":839.121,"endTime":841.021,"body":"BIM is just another data source."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":841.437,"endTime":845.397,"body":"Yeah, I agree and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":841.437,"endTime":845.397,"body":"particularly around things like the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":845.437,"endTime":849.707,"body":"digitally enabled product platforms and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":845.437,"endTime":849.707,"body":"so on, then I think BIM  is part of that,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":849.707,"endTime":851.107,"body":"but it's not the whole part of that."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":851.655,"endTime":855.53,"body":"It seems like a no brainer"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":851.655,"endTime":855.53,"body":"in a lot of ways that you would obviously"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":855.53,"endTime":862.01,"body":"want to obtain as much project analytics"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":855.53,"endTime":862.01,"body":"as you could, because why wouldn't you"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":862.01,"endTime":867.11,"body":"want knowledge about how your building was"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":862.01,"endTime":867.11,"body":"being built, how your project was working,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":867.11,"endTime":870.86,"body":"how your finances were ticking over and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":867.11,"endTime":870.86,"body":"what your end product was looking like,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":870.89,"endTime":872.27,"body":"why wouldn't you want that knowledge?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":872.61,"endTime":874.43,"body":"Why do we need to convince"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":872.61,"endTime":874.43,"body":"people about this?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":874.851,"endTime":877.251,"body":"I think it's to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":874.851,"endTime":877.251,"body":"do with skillsets actually, Adam."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":877.371,"endTime":882.202,"body":"So I had  a computer scientist work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":877.371,"endTime":882.202,"body":"as part of my research team and he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":882.202,"endTime":884.56,"body":"went into the construction sector."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":885.07,"endTime":887.947,"body":"And, you know, in this first week"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":885.07,"endTime":887.947,"body":"he increased the productivity of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":887.947,"endTime":892.288,"body":"company that he worked for because he"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":887.947,"endTime":892.288,"body":"just automated a whole load of rather"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":892.308,"endTime":895.108,"body":"manual processes that people were doing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":895.108,"endTime":899.138,"body":"I suspect there are many places in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":895.108,"endTime":899.138,"body":"construction where people are still doing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":899.151,"endTime":904.581,"body":"these inefficient processes, but don't"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":899.151,"endTime":904.581,"body":"have that kind of intelligent computer"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":904.581,"endTime":909.539,"body":"scientist or data analyst who's able"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":904.581,"endTime":909.539,"body":"to take that work out of the process."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":909.592,"endTime":913.251,"body":"Of course,  in companies like your own"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":909.592,"endTime":913.251,"body":"and in the engineering consultancies,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":913.251,"endTime":917.127,"body":"there are graduates coming in and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":913.251,"endTime":917.127,"body":"starting to challenge those models"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":917.127,"endTime":922.645,"body":"and that then requires you to procure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":917.127,"endTime":922.645,"body":"for value rather than procuring on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":922.645,"endTime":926.861,"body":"an hours basis so that it has a sort"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":922.645,"endTime":926.861,"body":"of series of, of implications about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":926.886,"endTime":929.016,"body":"how we value the work that people do."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":929.074,"endTime":933.777,"body":"But, I'm certain, there are still"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":929.074,"endTime":933.777,"body":"plenty of opportunities to improve"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":933.777,"endTime":938.748,"body":"the productivity of construction by,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":933.777,"endTime":938.748,"body":"by automating activities that we do"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":938.898,"endTime":941.218,"body":"routinely that are not value adding."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":941.974,"endTime":945.106,"body":"To be clear, this isn't"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":941.974,"endTime":945.106,"body":"about  reducing the construction"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":945.106,"endTime":948.496,"body":"workforce and putting people out of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":945.106,"endTime":948.496,"body":"jobs by bringing in robots, is it?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":948.526,"endTime":952.606,"body":"This is about making the construction"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":948.526,"endTime":952.606,"body":"industry a more dynamic and exciting"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":952.606,"endTime":955.846,"body":"industry in which to work  rather"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":952.606,"endTime":955.846,"body":"than removing that workforce."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":956.531,"endTime":956.981,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":957.011,"endTime":960.622,"body":"And I think I do believe that we"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":957.011,"endTime":960.622,"body":"should be taking the workforce"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":960.652,"endTime":964.762,"body":"off the construction site and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":960.652,"endTime":964.762,"body":"putting them in safer environments"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":964.922,"endTime":966.632,"body":"and doing more interesting jobs."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":967.052,"endTime":970.364,"body":"So we know that when"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":967.052,"endTime":970.364,"body":"people are doing work on the construction"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":970.364,"endTime":972.354,"body":"site, you know, the safety is an issue."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":972.65,"endTime":975.429,"body":"But actually mental"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":972.65,"endTime":975.429,"body":"health is a bigger issue."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":975.759,"endTime":980.409,"body":"And if people can be doing that kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":975.759,"endTime":980.409,"body":"work in a factory environment, they can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":980.409,"endTime":982.705,"body":"go home to their families every night."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":982.705,"endTime":987.275,"body":"There's a number of improvements that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":982.705,"endTime":987.275,"body":"there are for quality of life of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":987.275,"endTime":993.024,"body":"workers in construction, as well as for"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":987.275,"endTime":993.024,"body":"quality of products and consistency of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":993.074,"endTime":997.959,"body":"the products that we're delivering as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":993.074,"endTime":997.959,"body":"interventions into infrastructure systems."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":998.289,"endTime":1001.709,"body":"So we'll always need some people on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":998.289,"endTime":1001.709,"body":"site, but the more that we can do some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1001.709,"endTime":1006.291,"body":"of that manufacturing and assembly off"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1001.709,"endTime":1006.291,"body":"site, the better quality, but also the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1006.291,"endTime":1010.071,"body":"quality of life of the people that are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1006.291,"endTime":1010.071,"body":"working in construction can be improved."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1011.06,"endTime":1015.719,"body":"Yeah, I've heard the exact"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1011.06,"endTime":1015.719,"body":"same feedback from from factory workers"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1015.719,"endTime":1019.559,"body":"myself, people who have been on sites and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1015.719,"endTime":1019.559,"body":"then have moved into factories and they"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1019.559,"endTime":1024.539,"body":"say exactly that, you can buy a house or"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1019.559,"endTime":1024.539,"body":"have a house in an area and knowing full"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1024.539,"endTime":1027.954,"body":"well that that's where you're going to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1024.539,"endTime":1027.954,"body":"be working for the medium to long-term."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1027.954,"endTime":1031.634,"body":"And you're not going to be called"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1027.954,"endTime":1031.634,"body":"Interstate or to a different"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1031.634,"endTime":1035.318,"body":"place for a number of months  to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1031.634,"endTime":1035.318,"body":"do a construction project."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1035.318,"endTime":1039.208,"body":"And you also get that job security of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1035.318,"endTime":1039.208,"body":"knowing if you're producing standardized"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1039.208,"endTime":1043.078,"body":"construction components on a framework"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1039.208,"endTime":1043.078,"body":"basis, rather than a project basis,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1043.678,"endTime":1047.558,"body":"you're not threatened by a project"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1043.678,"endTime":1047.558,"body":"completion you have your ongoing"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1047.558,"endTime":1051.448,"body":"pipeline demand that's going to keep"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1047.558,"endTime":1051.448,"body":"you busy and keep you productive."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1051.778,"endTime":1055.478,"body":"So I, I think there is a big"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1051.778,"endTime":1055.478,"body":"quality of life benefit there."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1056.068,"endTime":1056.878,"body":"Yeah, I agree."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1056.948,"endTime":1059.828,"body":"I mean, there, there are stats on mental"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1056.948,"endTime":1059.828,"body":"health and construction are terrible."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1060.078,"endTime":1063.478,"body":"They're much worse than fatalities on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1060.078,"endTime":1063.478,"body":"site cause we've done a lot of work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1063.478,"endTime":1068.068,"body":"on health and safety on construction"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1063.478,"endTime":1068.068,"body":"sites, but there's something like seven"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1068.068,"endTime":1072.675,"body":"times as many suicides of construction"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1068.068,"endTime":1072.675,"body":"workers as there are fatalities."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1072.871,"endTime":1076.071,"body":"Those are the statistics in the UK and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1072.871,"endTime":1076.071,"body":"I don't know if they've got better in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1076.071,"endTime":1081.064,"body":"COVID but it's been largely about  migrant"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1076.071,"endTime":1081.064,"body":"workers, not being near their support"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1081.064,"endTime":1086.714,"body":"networks, being in quite a male dominated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1081.064,"endTime":1086.714,"body":"environment, if you like,  but kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1086.714,"endTime":1091.37,"body":"living away from home for an unknown"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1086.714,"endTime":1091.37,"body":"quantities of time and so it's something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1091.37,"endTime":1094.43,"body":"that Construction Leadership Council has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1091.37,"endTime":1094.43,"body":"done quite a bit of thinking about in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1094.43,"endTime":1100.403,"body":"the UK and so major construction projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1094.43,"endTime":1100.403,"body":"tend to have mental health first aiders."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1100.419,"endTime":1102.909,"body":"They might not be exactly the same in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1100.419,"endTime":1102.909,"body":"Australia, but when I looked them up"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1102.909,"endTime":1106.923,"body":"they've got similar kinds of initiatives"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1102.909,"endTime":1106.923,"body":"around mental health and construction."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1106.929,"endTime":1109.179,"body":"Yeah,  it"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1106.929,"endTime":1109.179,"body":"is and it's scary too."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1109.203,"endTime":1112.948,"body":"Like we talk so much about we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1109.203,"endTime":1112.948,"body":"going to save some time and we're"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1112.948,"endTime":1114.158,"body":"going to save a bit of money."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1114.158,"endTime":1118.138,"body":"We're going to reduce the costs by 10%"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1114.158,"endTime":1118.138,"body":"and we're going to reduce the schedule"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1118.138,"endTime":1121.828,"body":"by 30% and construction productivity"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1118.138,"endTime":1121.828,"body":"is going to be way up and they're all"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1121.828,"endTime":1125.495,"body":"pretty good benefits, but health and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1121.828,"endTime":1125.495,"body":"safety is the most important thing."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1125.495,"endTime":1127.085,"body":"You can't argue with it really."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1127.085,"endTime":1130.838,"body":"If you can reduce the number of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1127.085,"endTime":1130.838,"body":"reportable incidents on a project if you"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1130.838,"endTime":1135.068,"body":"can reduce injuries and if you look at"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1130.838,"endTime":1135.068,"body":"some of the statistics,  a construction"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1135.068,"endTime":1140.128,"body":"worker entering the industry is pretty"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1135.068,"endTime":1140.128,"body":"much guaranteed statistically to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1140.128,"endTime":1146.898,"body":"have some injury incident and awesome"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1140.128,"endTime":1146.898,"body":"mental health issue over the course of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1146.898,"endTime":1148.788,"body":"their career on current performance."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1148.818,"endTime":1150.258,"body":"We've got to improve, right?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1150.751,"endTime":1151.111,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1151.141,"endTime":1156.011,"body":"I mean, I did some work with Judith"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1151.141,"endTime":1156.011,"body":"Hackitt around building safely by"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1156.011,"endTime":1159.461,"body":"design the kind of work that she was"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1156.011,"endTime":1159.461,"body":"doing that now she was looking at the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1159.461,"endTime":1164.216,"body":"safety of occupants in our building"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1159.461,"endTime":1164.216,"body":"and, you know, making the argument that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1164.276,"endTime":1168.975,"body":"high-rise buildings, that people sleep"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1164.276,"endTime":1168.975,"body":"in are safety critical and so we need"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1168.975,"endTime":1173.385,"body":"to be an industry that looks at what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1168.975,"endTime":1173.385,"body":"we produce as being safety critical."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1173.391,"endTime":1176.292,"body":"Yeah, and I think that also plays"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1173.391,"endTime":1176.292,"body":"through to the way that we produce it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1176.322,"endTime":1180.764,"body":"I mean, she was the Chief Executive of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1176.322,"endTime":1180.764,"body":"Health and Safety Executive  in the UK."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1181.184,"endTime":1184.799,"body":"And she has some very strong views"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1181.184,"endTime":1184.799,"body":"about how think about this systemically."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1184.824,"endTime":1188.124,"body":"She came out of looking at a big"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1184.824,"endTime":1188.124,"body":"chemical engineering disaster,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1188.124,"endTime":1191.646,"body":"the Bronzeville disaster in the UK"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1188.124,"endTime":1191.646,"body":"where people really quickly wanted"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1191.646,"endTime":1193.326,"body":"to call it a problem with a pump."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1193.986,"endTime":1197.193,"body":"And, you know, she was saying, well,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1193.986,"endTime":1197.193,"body":"what's the organizational kind of."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1197.203,"endTime":1200.443,"body":"Set a processes that have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1197.203,"endTime":1200.443,"body":"allowed this problem to happen."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1200.443,"endTime":1203.573,"body":"And, you know, with the Grenfell"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1200.443,"endTime":1203.573,"body":"disaster that initiated her work"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1203.573,"endTime":1207.05,"body":"in the UK, people very quickly"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1203.573,"endTime":1207.05,"body":"want to talk about the cladding."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1207.29,"endTime":1210.63,"body":"Now there are problems with the cladding"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1207.29,"endTime":1210.63,"body":"there that absolutely undoubtedly"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1210.679,"endTime":1215.542,"body":"but what it revealed was also a set"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1210.679,"endTime":1215.542,"body":"of problems with the sector and so"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1215.612,"endTime":1220.937,"body":"sitting on her committee in government"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1215.612,"endTime":1220.937,"body":"holding the industry to account before I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1220.937,"endTime":1222.737,"body":"joined Construction Leadership Council."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1223.231,"endTime":1228.377,"body":"It was really apparent that the people"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1223.231,"endTime":1228.377,"body":"didn't know how they work connected"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1228.377,"endTime":1234.126,"body":"up, systemic understanding of the fact"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1228.377,"endTime":1234.126,"body":"that we're delivering safety, critical"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1234.25,"endTime":1239.085,"body":"buildings and infrastructure places where"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1234.25,"endTime":1239.085,"body":"people spend their lives and inhabit, but"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1239.135,"endTime":1243.65,"body":"particularly she was focused on high-rise"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1239.135,"endTime":1243.65,"body":"and residential where people are sleeping."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1243.659,"endTime":1245.489,"body":"It didn't show our industry"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1243.659,"endTime":1245.489,"body":"in a very good way."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1245.489,"endTime":1248.714,"body":"And if you read in the introduction"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1245.489,"endTime":1248.714,"body":"to her report, she's quite scathing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1248.714,"endTime":1252.996,"body":"about our sector, that she doesn't feel"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1248.714,"endTime":1252.996,"body":"that people understood they need to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1252.996,"endTime":1255.612,"body":"do to be professional in this space."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1255.612,"endTime":1259.957,"body":"And it was quite interesting to be sitting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1255.612,"endTime":1259.957,"body":"on that committee with people from the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1260.018,"endTime":1263.35,"body":"airports industry, with people from"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1260.018,"endTime":1263.35,"body":"chemical engineering, you know, looking"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1263.35,"endTime":1267.381,"body":"into our sector and saying you're not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1263.35,"endTime":1267.381,"body":"performing as a safety critical sector."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1268.324,"endTime":1272.794,"body":"There's such a duty of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1268.324,"endTime":1272.794,"body":"care on everyone in the sector, really."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1272.846,"endTime":1276.146,"body":"For that exact reason, I studied"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1272.846,"endTime":1276.146,"body":"architecture and it's one of the things"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1276.146,"endTime":1280.426,"body":"they tell you at architecture school is"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1276.146,"endTime":1280.426,"body":"you do have to take it very seriously,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1280.426,"endTime":1284.966,"body":"but there's so many stakeholders in"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1280.426,"endTime":1284.966,"body":"a project and especially the mega"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1284.966,"endTime":1289.517,"body":"projects, just coming back to this for"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1284.966,"endTime":1289.517,"body":"a second, so many stakeholders, so many"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1289.517,"endTime":1293.234,"body":"pairs of hands the project, the design"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1289.517,"endTime":1293.234,"body":"goes through before it gets realised"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1293.424,"endTime":1295.614,"body":"that responsibility is spread so thin."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1295.655,"endTime":1299.765,"body":"How do you ensure that somehow"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1295.655,"endTime":1299.765,"body":"somewhere someone is going to kind"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1299.765,"endTime":1301.025,"body":"of dot the I's and cross the T's."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1301.961,"endTime":1302.231,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1302.231,"endTime":1305.441,"body":"I mean, having done a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1302.231,"endTime":1305.441,"body":"research on systems integration you"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1305.441,"endTime":1308.471,"body":"know, I think accountability and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1305.441,"endTime":1308.471,"body":"responsibility is really important."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1308.471,"endTime":1310.301,"body":"How it's structured through the project."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1310.301,"endTime":1313.961,"body":"We've done a bit of work on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1310.301,"endTime":1313.961,"body":"seven lessons from Crossrail."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1314.04,"endTime":1317.077,"body":"And it's actually in one of  the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1314.04,"endTime":1317.077,"body":"reports that the Institution of Civil"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1317.077,"endTime":1320.466,"body":"Engineers has just put out about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1317.077,"endTime":1320.466,"body":"systems approaches to infrastructure,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1320.623,"endTime":1325.45,"body":"and really that,  at its core, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1320.623,"endTime":1325.45,"body":"about managing delivery processes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1325.54,"endTime":1327.725,"body":"as systems integration processes."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1327.725,"endTime":1333.785,"body":"So yeah, it's really those boundaries"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1327.725,"endTime":1333.785,"body":"between units that you get the problems."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1333.845,"endTime":1337.225,"body":"And so  whether that they're technical"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1333.845,"endTime":1337.225,"body":"units or organisational units?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1337.23,"endTime":1341.143,"body":"So how do you  make sure that people are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1337.23,"endTime":1341.143,"body":"accountable you know, and the people are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1341.143,"endTime":1345.063,"body":"responsible and accountable for those"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1341.143,"endTime":1345.063,"body":"interfaces as well as for the, for the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1345.073,"endTime":1349.473,"body":"units that are being put together, but I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1345.073,"endTime":1349.473,"body":"think to address the kind of challenges"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1349.473,"endTime":1353.377,"body":"that Hackitt has laid out for the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1349.473,"endTime":1353.377,"body":"industry, you know, that golden thread of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1353.377,"endTime":1358.392,"body":"information and that standardisation of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1353.377,"endTime":1358.392,"body":"parts and that understanding of kits of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1358.392,"endTime":1361.052,"body":"parts are part of the solution to that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1361.146,"endTime":1365.42,"body":"I don't see this as being separate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1361.146,"endTime":1365.42,"body":"agendas, I think  we need that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1365.9,"endTime":1369.27,"body":"high level of information about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1365.9,"endTime":1369.27,"body":"the things that we're delivering."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1369.337,"endTime":1372.65,"body":"And to do that, we need this golden"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1369.337,"endTime":1372.65,"body":"thread of information that ties"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1372.65,"endTime":1376.397,"body":"together all of the parties that are"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1372.65,"endTime":1376.397,"body":"involved and new kinds of commercial"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1376.397,"endTime":1377.867,"body":"models that allow that to happen."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1378.075,"endTime":1382.515,"body":"Is this somewhere where"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1378.075,"endTime":1382.515,"body":"we can also start to learn some lessons"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1382.515,"endTime":1386.784,"body":"from the manufacturing side because"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1382.515,"endTime":1386.784,"body":"other sectors like in Bryden Wood, we"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1386.784,"endTime":1388.674,"body":"do a lot of work in pharmaceutical."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1388.884,"endTime":1392.829,"body":"They have a huge duty of care"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1388.884,"endTime":1392.829,"body":"for the health of patients, food"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1392.899,"endTime":1396.81,"body":"also have safety standards, any"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1392.899,"endTime":1396.81,"body":"product that's being ingested is"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1396.81,"endTime":1398.64,"body":"obviously really safety critical."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1399.03,"endTime":1402.7,"body":"And I'm sure that there are issues"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1399.03,"endTime":1402.7,"body":"from time to time, but maybe not the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1402.7,"endTime":1405.04,"body":"same high profile kind of shortcomings."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1405.43,"endTime":1408.481,"body":"Can we learn lessons from the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1405.43,"endTime":1408.481,"body":"manufacturing sector in those ways?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1409.426,"endTime":1412.586,"body":"I'm sure that there"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1409.426,"endTime":1412.586,"body":"will be recommendations that come"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1412.586,"endTime":1416.359,"body":"out of the works have been in there"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1412.586,"endTime":1416.359,"body":"been changes that have been made"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1416.359,"endTime":1418.329,"body":"as a result of some of  that work."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1418.402,"endTime":1419.546,"body":"But manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1420.201,"endTime":1422.751,"body":"I mean for me, what's interesting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1420.201,"endTime":1422.751,"body":"is where does the manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1422.751,"endTime":1429.051,"body":"industry touch into an industry that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1422.751,"endTime":1429.051,"body":"delivers complex product systems?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1429.591,"endTime":1433.281,"body":"So in the literature on innovation, they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1429.591,"endTime":1433.281,"body":"talk about innovation in manufacturing,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1433.581,"endTime":1437.421,"body":"being quite different from innovation"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1433.581,"endTime":1437.421,"body":"in complex product systems, because"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1437.661,"endTime":1443.901,"body":"manufacturing is organised by continuous"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1437.661,"endTime":1443.901,"body":"flow, whereas complex product systems"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1443.901,"endTime":1445.311,"body":"are organised through projects."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1445.869,"endTime":1450.011,"body":"And I think digital does change the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1445.869,"endTime":1450.011,"body":"interface between those two worlds."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1450.341,"endTime":1453.275,"body":"Construction's always used manufacturing,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1450.341,"endTime":1453.275,"body":"there's always manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1453.275,"endTime":1454.824,"body":"products in a construction site."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1455.023,"endTime":1459.033,"body":"There's always a little bit of complexity"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1455.023,"endTime":1459.033,"body":"around a project, but I think the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1459.033,"endTime":1462.427,"body":"boundary between those two things has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1459.033,"endTime":1462.427,"body":"been shifting differently in different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1462.427,"endTime":1466.637,"body":"areas of construction, so there's some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1462.427,"endTime":1466.637,"body":"volumetric house building where perhaps,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1466.647,"endTime":1471.618,"body":"the largely a manufacturing process and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1466.647,"endTime":1471.618,"body":"less emphasis on the complex products."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1471.618,"endTime":1475.987,"body":"I think major transport infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1471.618,"endTime":1475.987,"body":"projects are always going to have that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1475.987,"endTime":1479.677,"body":"element of being a complex product,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1475.987,"endTime":1479.677,"body":"but there are also opportunities"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1479.677,"endTime":1483.682,"body":"to take things like doors and just"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1479.677,"endTime":1483.682,"body":"standardise them across the whole piece."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1483.682,"endTime":1487.595,"body":"And that's sometimes involves some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1483.682,"endTime":1487.595,"body":"early decisions ahead of setting out the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1487.595,"endTime":1490.085,"body":"contracts and starting to do procurement."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1490.295,"endTime":1495.005,"body":"So that early phase, that initial phase"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1490.295,"endTime":1495.005,"body":"of those, those really big projects is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1495.015,"endTime":1497.435,"body":"super critical, really, really important."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1497.489,"endTime":1500.399,"body":"That project initiation phase, when"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1497.489,"endTime":1500.399,"body":"you don't have too many people and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1500.399,"endTime":1504.569,"body":"you haven't sort of started to scale"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1500.399,"endTime":1504.569,"body":"up the organisation to deliver."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1505.111,"endTime":1507.809,"body":"It's true, I think the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1505.111,"endTime":1507.809,"body":"construction industry is different to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1507.809,"endTime":1509.559,"body":"the manufacturing industry, for sure."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1509.593,"endTime":1516.02,"body":"But what you said about complex"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1509.593,"endTime":1516.02,"body":"product systems being broken down into"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1516.32,"endTime":1522.2,"body":"kind of subsystems or packages that"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1516.32,"endTime":1522.2,"body":"could be standardised, that could be"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1522.2,"endTime":1527.69,"body":"componentised that could benefit from"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1522.2,"endTime":1527.69,"body":"manufacturing, maybe this is part"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1527.69,"endTime":1530.74,"body":"of the approach and then the element"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1527.69,"endTime":1530.74,"body":"of the construction industry that"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1530.74,"endTime":1533.89,"body":"is different to manufacturing is the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1530.74,"endTime":1533.89,"body":"fact that at the end, you still need"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1533.89,"endTime":1536.47,"body":"to deliver a complex asset on a site."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1537.16,"endTime":1539.71,"body":"And, but maybe the role of doing"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1537.16,"endTime":1539.71,"body":"that, it's a bit different."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1539.71,"endTime":1544.778,"body":"Maybe it's more of an integrator or an"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1539.71,"endTime":1544.778,"body":"aggregator of components rather than a"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1544.808,"endTime":1546.877,"body":"main contractor, as we know it today."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1547.187,"endTime":1549.999,"body":"Look I agree that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1547.187,"endTime":1549.999,"body":"there are potentially different models"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1549.999,"endTime":1553.877,"body":"and, you know, having been studying"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1549.999,"endTime":1553.877,"body":"that systems integration activity."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1554.337,"endTime":1559.687,"body":"The idea of systems integration comes out"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1554.337,"endTime":1559.687,"body":"of some of the post-war American projects,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1559.699,"endTime":1565.249,"body":"where they had a lot of technical"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1559.699,"endTime":1565.249,"body":"complexity and they hired a company to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1565.249,"endTime":1570.002,"body":"act as the systems integrator, separate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1565.249,"endTime":1570.002,"body":"from things like project management."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1570.021,"endTime":1575.127,"body":"Now can the client completely"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1570.021,"endTime":1575.127,"body":"outsource systems integration?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1575.197,"endTime":1576.607,"body":"I would be doubtful of that."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1576.667,"endTime":1579.947,"body":"I think that there's some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1576.667,"endTime":1579.947,"body":"accountability for systems integration."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1579.947,"endTime":1583.367,"body":"That's going to remain in the client,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1579.947,"endTime":1583.367,"body":"whether that's the client, the end"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1583.367,"endTime":1587.84,"body":"client or a delivery client, but they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1583.367,"endTime":1587.84,"body":"might be able to give responsibility"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1587.84,"endTime":1593.124,"body":"for particular interfaces and so on to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1587.84,"endTime":1593.124,"body":"other, but then the oversight and the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1593.124,"endTime":1596.706,"body":"governance and the understanding  of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1593.124,"endTime":1596.706,"body":"how the system's going to come together."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1596.975,"endTime":1597.135,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1597.135,"endTime":1600.605,"body":"So it's kind of challenging because some"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1597.135,"endTime":1600.605,"body":"of it, you can fit out in the initial"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1600.605,"endTime":1605.165,"body":"phase then often on these big projects,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1600.605,"endTime":1605.165,"body":"there's also some emergent, complexity"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1605.186,"endTime":1609.699,"body":"and uncertainty that you have to manage"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1605.186,"endTime":1609.699,"body":"through delivery and then of course, the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1609.699,"endTime":1612.189,"body":"final integration to get the project and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1613.088,"endTime":1616.314,"body":"Do you think the client role"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1613.088,"endTime":1616.314,"body":"is going to need to change in the future?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1616.335,"endTime":1620.424,"body":"Clients are often quite kind of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1616.335,"endTime":1620.424,"body":"standoffish about construction projects."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1620.424,"endTime":1624.348,"body":"You hand over a package to a main"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1620.424,"endTime":1624.348,"body":"contractor and say, finish up"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1624.348,"endTime":1627.618,"body":"the design portion of this and go"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1624.348,"endTime":1627.618,"body":"ahead and build it and I'll come"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1627.618,"endTime":1628.768,"body":"and have a look when it's done."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1628.776,"endTime":1630.936,"body":"Does the client need to be"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1628.776,"endTime":1630.936,"body":"more involved in some of these"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1630.936,"endTime":1634.926,"body":"processes and particularly the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1630.936,"endTime":1634.926,"body":"standardisation elements and having"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1634.926,"endTime":1637.816,"body":"a much more clearly defined brief."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1638.077,"endTime":1638.437,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1638.437,"endTime":1642.869,"body":"I've learned a lot through being involved"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1638.437,"endTime":1642.869,"body":"in what's called Project 13, it was an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1642.869,"endTime":1648.857,"body":"initiative of infrastructure clients"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1642.869,"endTime":1648.857,"body":"including Sydney Water in Sydney,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1648.857,"endTime":1650.939,"body":"but also major clients in the UK."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1651.341,"endTime":1655.777,"body":"And they've really pioneered"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1651.341,"endTime":1655.777,"body":"different models for thinking about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1655.81,"endTime":1661.36,"body":"delivery, more as an enterprise"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1655.81,"endTime":1661.36,"body":"and less as a set of transactions."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1661.81,"endTime":1666.66,"body":"And I think that mindset shift"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1661.81,"endTime":1666.66,"body":"in clients around, what kind of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1666.66,"endTime":1669.48,"body":"outcomes are they trying to achieve?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1669.48,"endTime":1673.86,"body":"And therefore, you know, what are they"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1669.48,"endTime":1673.86,"body":"going to do to achieve those outcomes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1673.985,"endTime":1678.534,"body":"is really important particularly"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1673.985,"endTime":1678.534,"body":"given the amount of change that there"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1678.534,"endTime":1681.618,"body":"is, in a post COVID uncertain world."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1681.978,"endTime":1685.978,"body":"And so  I think absolutely mindset"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1681.978,"endTime":1685.978,"body":"shift in clients is required."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1686.492,"endTime":1689.679,"body":"we were talking about"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1686.492,"endTime":1689.679,"body":"the role of government in setting the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1689.679,"endTime":1694.678,"body":"policy and the role of the industry,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1689.679,"endTime":1694.678,"body":"the sector itself to kind of step up"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1694.678,"endTime":1698.368,"body":"and innovate, but the client's got to"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1694.678,"endTime":1698.368,"body":"play a role in this too, particularly"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1698.368,"endTime":1702.528,"body":"what we were talking about before"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1698.368,"endTime":1702.528,"body":"on health and safety and or poor"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1702.528,"endTime":1704.268,"body":"outcomes on construction projects."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1704.508,"endTime":1707.508,"body":"Maybe clients should be stepping"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1704.508,"endTime":1707.508,"body":"up and demanding more and saying,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1707.508,"endTime":1710.778,"body":"we're not getting good value from the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1707.508,"endTime":1710.778,"body":"industry and it's not good enough."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1710.868,"endTime":1714.567,"body":"I think it depends what"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1710.868,"endTime":1714.567,"body":"you think that clients should procure for."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1714.657,"endTime":1719.29,"body":"So I think they should be, they should"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1714.657,"endTime":1719.29,"body":"be demanding a lot from the industry."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1719.305,"endTime":1723.829,"body":"It's easier in a longer term working"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1719.305,"endTime":1723.829,"body":"relationship to demand a lot."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1724.159,"endTime":1729.381,"body":"I think the hyper competitivity around"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1724.159,"endTime":1729.381,"body":"cost, it's very damaging to the industry."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1729.381,"endTime":1733.805,"body":"But the set of values that people should"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1729.381,"endTime":1733.805,"body":"be procuring to should include, of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1733.805,"endTime":1738.755,"body":"course, things like health and safety"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1733.805,"endTime":1738.755,"body":"and quality and the kind of outcomes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1738.755,"endTime":1740.315,"body":"that people are trying to achieve."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1740.357,"endTime":1744.903,"body":"And health and safety is often treated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1740.357,"endTime":1744.903,"body":"as a qualitative outcome, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1744.977,"endTime":1746.477,"body":"It's almost like a box ticker."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1746.477,"endTime":1750.645,"body":"Of course, we're going to comply with"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1746.477,"endTime":1750.645,"body":"all the applicable standards, but it"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1750.645,"endTime":1752.505,"body":"really should be a quantitative thing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1752.545,"endTime":1756.85,"body":"There should be metrics associated"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1752.545,"endTime":1756.85,"body":"with that you need to comply with."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1757.66,"endTime":1762.881,"body":"Yeah, I mean, because I sit in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1757.66,"endTime":1762.881,"body":"research space I found that it's an"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1762.881,"endTime":1769.723,"body":"area in which the industry is actually"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1762.881,"endTime":1769.723,"body":"happy to collaborate on research on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1769.723,"endTime":1773.623,"body":"development, on sharing knowledge,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1769.723,"endTime":1773.623,"body":"because it's not an area in which"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1773.653,"endTime":1775.303,"body":"companies compete with each other."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1775.843,"endTime":1781.024,"body":"It's an area in which everyone believes"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1775.843,"endTime":1781.024,"body":"that the industry you know,  needs to not"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1781.024,"endTime":1785.52,"body":"be complacent and  the UK has globally,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1781.024,"endTime":1785.52,"body":"it has a  good track record in terms"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1785.52,"endTime":1791.25,"body":"of health and safety, but it's very"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1785.52,"endTime":1791.25,"body":"baked in not to be complacent about this"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1791.25,"endTime":1794.16,"body":"because any accident is not good enough."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1794.19,"endTime":1799.11,"body":"We want all of our workers to go home"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1794.19,"endTime":1799.11,"body":"safely to their families at the end"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1799.11,"endTime":1803.399,"body":"of the day and so they've been doing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1799.11,"endTime":1803.399,"body":"a lot of work on mental health and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1803.429,"endTime":1808.669,"body":"supporting mental health, but that has"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1803.429,"endTime":1808.669,"body":"been not an area for competition in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1808.669,"endTime":1812.629,"body":"the supply chain, that's been an area"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1808.669,"endTime":1812.629,"body":"for collaboration across companies"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1812.629,"endTime":1816.019,"body":"that would otherwise compete, have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1812.629,"endTime":1816.019,"body":"been sharing in that space and I think"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1816.019,"endTime":1818.989,"body":"that's absolutely right and important."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1818.989,"endTime":1824.408,"body":"And for me those areas where you can"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1818.989,"endTime":1824.408,"body":"get companies to understand the value"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1824.408,"endTime":1828.038,"body":"of collaborating are actually important"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1824.408,"endTime":1828.038,"body":"for addressing some of these big issues."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1828.61,"endTime":1832.929,"body":"We really believe that value"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1828.61,"endTime":1832.929,"body":"has to be driving all of this change."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1832.942,"endTime":1836.962,"body":"The change won't come if there's not a"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1832.942,"endTime":1836.962,"body":"benefit to doing something differently,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1836.962,"endTime":1838.642,"body":"there's no point to doing it differently."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1838.642,"endTime":1842.992,"body":"I think really focusing on what that"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1838.642,"endTime":1842.992,"body":"benefit is, and maybe getting early"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1842.992,"endTime":1847.472,"body":"adopter projects that have realised"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1842.992,"endTime":1847.472,"body":"the benefit that people can look at is"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1847.512,"endTime":1851.962,"body":"maybe not the perfect solution, but a"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1847.512,"endTime":1851.962,"body":"step forward in the right direction."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1852.012,"endTime":1853.074,"body":"It's a good approach."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1853.074,"endTime":1854.364,"body":"Is that something that you believe."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1854.981,"endTime":1855.791,"body":"Yeah, I do."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1855.821,"endTime":1860.916,"body":"And I think both the Project 13 initiative"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1855.821,"endTime":1860.916,"body":"and also the work on them systems"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1860.916,"endTime":1865.056,"body":"approaches to infrastructure have taken"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1860.916,"endTime":1865.056,"body":"that approach, so they've got a series"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1865.056,"endTime":1870.966,"body":"of examples of projects and companies"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1865.056,"endTime":1870.966,"body":"that have gained benefit and Transforming"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1870.966,"endTime":1876.219,"body":"Construction as an initiative in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1870.966,"endTime":1876.219,"body":"UK, similarly, has demonstrator projects"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1876.225,"endTime":1880.795,"body":"and it provides something tangible that"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1876.225,"endTime":1880.795,"body":"people can can kind of see the benefit"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1880.862,"endTime":1885.639,"body":"around now I'm less familiar with the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1880.862,"endTime":1885.639,"body":"examples in Australia at this point in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1885.639,"endTime":1890.174,"body":"time, but that's research that we're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1885.639,"endTime":1890.174,"body":"beginning to do in terms of understanding,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1890.474,"endTime":1895.184,"body":"you know, where the locations of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1890.474,"endTime":1895.184,"body":"best practice are and being able to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1895.214,"endTime":1897.134,"body":"kind of showcase those case studies."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1897.198,"endTime":1900.643,"body":"The global infrastructure helped us"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1897.198,"endTime":1900.643,"body":"some of that internationally in terms"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1900.643,"endTime":1903.973,"body":"of showcasing examples of best practice."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1904.076,"endTime":1909.026,"body":"So we've had a very wide"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1904.076,"endTime":1909.026,"body":"ranging conversation, actually, Jennifer"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1909.266,"endTime":1913.913,"body":"brilliant thing and it seems to me"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1909.266,"endTime":1913.913,"body":"like in your role and particularly"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1913.913,"endTime":1917.693,"body":"at the John Grill Institute you're"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1913.913,"endTime":1917.693,"body":"exploring lots of different avenues,"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1917.693,"endTime":1919.463,"body":"so it's not a single solution."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1919.463,"endTime":1923.833,"body":"There's not kind of a single approach"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1919.463,"endTime":1923.833,"body":"that you're exploring to transform the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1923.833,"endTime":1929.063,"body":"construction industry,  your advocating"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1923.833,"endTime":1929.063,"body":"for greater adoption of digital."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1929.881,"endTime":1934.261,"body":"You're  looking for more collaborative"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1929.881,"endTime":1934.261,"body":"and communicative relationships"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1934.261,"endTime":1939.561,"body":"between different parties and maybe"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1934.261,"endTime":1939.561,"body":"shifts in contractual relationships"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1939.571,"endTime":1943.201,"body":"with gene parties and moving"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1939.571,"endTime":1943.201,"body":"away from a pure focus on cost."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1943.201,"endTime":1946.291,"body":"You're looking to deliver better"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1943.201,"endTime":1946.291,"body":"value on projects with a greater"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1946.291,"endTime":1947.821,"body":"focus on health and safety."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1947.9,"endTime":1951.08,"body":"You're looking at different"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1947.9,"endTime":1951.08,"body":"construction methodologies and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1951.26,"endTime":1955.319,"body":"modern methods of construction"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1951.26,"endTime":1955.319,"body":"being one of them, standardised"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1955.339,"endTime":1959.209,"body":"kits of parts being an approach, but"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1955.339,"endTime":1959.209,"body":"maybe not the answer in all cases."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1959.268,"endTime":1962.64,"body":"It seems like there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1959.268,"endTime":1962.64,"body":"different avenues that you're exploring."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1962.64,"endTime":1968.296,"body":"It's quite a complex puzzle and kind"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1962.64,"endTime":1968.296,"body":"of simultaneously working in all"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1968.296,"endTime":1971.026,"body":"of these paths, is that correct?"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1971.026,"endTime":1973.071,"body":"And is that something that's overwhelming."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1973.071,"endTime":1976.551,"body":"Do you see progress in all of these"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1973.071,"endTime":1976.551,"body":"areas or are you more focused in"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":1976.551,"endTime":1978.823,"body":"one aspect in your immediate future."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1980.008,"endTime":1983.188,"body":"So in the John Grill"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1980.008,"endTime":1983.188,"body":"Institute for Project Leadership, our"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1983.188,"endTime":1988.108,"body":"focus is very much on project leadership"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1983.188,"endTime":1988.108,"body":"and project leadership encompasses all"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1988.108,"endTime":1992.63,"body":"of these these kinds of challenges,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1988.108,"endTime":1992.63,"body":"but we're, we're focused on taking a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1992.63,"endTime":1998.3,"body":"socialised perspective to leadership,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1992.63,"endTime":1998.3,"body":"so not looking at leaders in terms of"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1998.3,"endTime":2004.205,"body":"their biographies or their psychology,"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":1998.3,"endTime":2004.205,"body":"but looking at how do you set up"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2004.505,"endTime":2010.205,"body":"leadership and governance structures"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2004.505,"endTime":2010.205,"body":"that enable you to deliver outcomes?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2011.32,"endTime":2015.88,"body":"And so, you know, how do you do that in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2011.32,"endTime":2015.88,"body":"a world that's uncertain and changing."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2016.214,"endTime":2020.394,"body":"So we're interested in project leadership"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2016.214,"endTime":2020.394,"body":"in a changing world and that world is"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2020.394,"endTime":2024.714,"body":"changing because of technologies, it's"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2020.394,"endTime":2024.714,"body":"changing because of the increasing"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2024.714,"endTime":2028.434,"body":"numbers of stakeholders and different"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2024.714,"endTime":2028.434,"body":"kinds of organisational structures."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2028.704,"endTime":2034.309,"body":"And it's also changing because we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2028.704,"endTime":2034.309,"body":"have a changing climate and so we're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2034.309,"endTime":2037.939,"body":"starting to understand what we're"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2034.309,"endTime":2037.939,"body":"doing with built infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2038.209,"endTime":2042.599,"body":"in relationship to the natural"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2038.209,"endTime":2042.599,"body":"environment  becomes really important."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2042.802,"endTime":2045.572,"body":"Then we've continued to collaborate"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2042.802,"endTime":2045.572,"body":"with our colleagues in London"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2045.816,"endTime":2049.465,"body":"around that idea of projects as"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2045.816,"endTime":2049.465,"body":"interventions  in these systems."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2050.08,"endTime":2054.67,"body":"Both infrastructure systems and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2050.08,"endTime":2054.67,"body":"also natural environment systems."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2054.85,"endTime":2060.959,"body":"So yes, it's a big landscape, but our"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2054.85,"endTime":2060.959,"body":"focus in the Institute is very much on"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2061.139,"endTime":2063.329,"body":"what does that mean for project leaders?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2063.719,"endTime":2066.939,"body":"How do project leaders have"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2063.719,"endTime":2066.939,"body":"to think differently given"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2066.989,"endTime":2068.669,"body":"the challenges that we face."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2068.704,"endTime":2070.674,"body":"You keep"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2068.704,"endTime":2070.674,"body":"preempting some of my questions."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2070.674,"endTime":2071.154,"body":"It's great."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2071.154,"endTime":2074.344,"body":"We have a really similar kind of train"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2071.154,"endTime":2074.344,"body":"of thought because I'd realised that we"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2074.364,"endTime":2076.554,"body":"hadn't touched on sustainability yet."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2076.584,"endTime":2079.614,"body":"You brought it up there and it's great"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2076.584,"endTime":2079.614,"body":"that we've managed to touch on it"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2079.614,"endTime":2083.33,"body":"because it's another crucial aspect"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2079.614,"endTime":2083.33,"body":"of this and part of the duty of care."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2083.33,"endTime":2088.28,"body":"I think of the industry, given the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2083.33,"endTime":2088.28,"body":"scale of the impacts industry on the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2088.28,"endTime":2093.19,"body":"environment in a lot of ways, it seems"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2088.28,"endTime":2093.19,"body":"like we have these crucial challenges in"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2093.19,"endTime":2097.777,"body":"sustainability in the increasing level"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2093.19,"endTime":2097.777,"body":"of competition that's emerging in the"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2097.777,"endTime":2104.969,"body":"industry and the demand for projects and"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2097.777,"endTime":2104.969,"body":"we also kind of happily resigned to get"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2104.969,"endTime":2109.984,"body":"some of the tools, some of the solutions"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2104.969,"endTime":2109.984,"body":"because digital technology is increasing"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2109.984,"endTime":2114.227,"body":"at such an unprecedented rate because all"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2109.984,"endTime":2114.227,"body":"these different innovative construction"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2114.227,"endTime":2116.267,"body":"methodologies are beginning to emerge."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2116.447,"endTime":2118.367,"body":"Maybe the time is right."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2118.407,"endTime":2122.177,"body":"Maybe now is the time because we"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2118.407,"endTime":2122.177,"body":"have this kind of confluence of a"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2122.177,"endTime":2127.517,"body":"challenge and an opportunity or, or"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2122.177,"endTime":2127.517,"body":"a possible solution to address this."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2128.438,"endTime":2131.918,"body":"I mean, potentially, I"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2128.438,"endTime":2131.918,"body":"think there are some potential challenges."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2131.918,"endTime":2135.428,"body":"So, we did a bit of work on the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2131.918,"endTime":2135.428,"body":"future making online, you know, in"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2135.428,"endTime":2140.314,"body":"this kind of digital world that we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2135.428,"endTime":2140.314,"body":"all went into during the pandemic."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2140.68,"endTime":2144.979,"body":"And we had some concerns about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2140.68,"endTime":2144.979,"body":"how the  digital communication"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2144.979,"endTime":2148.999,"body":"can close the world in on itself"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2144.979,"endTime":2148.999,"body":"and so you can miss stakeholders."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2149.854,"endTime":2153.664,"body":"You can forget to compare and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2149.854,"endTime":2153.664,"body":"contrast different solutions."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2153.664,"endTime":2156.031,"body":"You can close in on a"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2153.664,"endTime":2156.031,"body":"solution too quickly."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2156.036,"endTime":2159.546,"body":"And you can fail to think about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2156.036,"endTime":2159.546,"body":"how you then progress something"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2159.546,"endTime":2162.146,"body":"out into the natural environment"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2159.546,"endTime":2162.146,"body":"that you're building in."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2162.446,"endTime":2166.897,"body":"And so I think digital has huge"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2162.446,"endTime":2166.897,"body":"opportunities, but we have to"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2166.897,"endTime":2170.387,"body":"mobilise it in the right way and"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2166.897,"endTime":2170.387,"body":"ask the  right questions of it."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2170.387,"endTime":2174.222,"body":"You know, because ultimately we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2170.387,"endTime":2174.222,"body":"build physical things with digital"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2174.222,"endTime":2178.792,"body":"twins, but the materials that we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2174.222,"endTime":2178.792,"body":"use are very resource intensive."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2178.856,"endTime":2183.197,"body":"And concrete is the most used material"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2178.856,"endTime":2183.197,"body":"on the planet after water then."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2183.197,"endTime":2185.937,"body":"So, you know,  we have these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2183.197,"endTime":2185.937,"body":"tools to start to think about"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2185.937,"endTime":2187.857,"body":"how do we use the materials?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2187.907,"endTime":2192.127,"body":"how do we design in a way in which"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2187.907,"endTime":2192.127,"body":"we tread lightly on the world."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2192.401,"endTime":2193.631,"body":"It's not going to be easy."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2194.001,"endTime":2196.948,"body":"My last question how optimistic are you?"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2197.557,"endTime":2200.797,"body":"I'm optimistic that we"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2197.557,"endTime":2200.797,"body":"have bright people who can address these"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2200.847,"endTime":2204.531,"body":"challenges, but I'm not unaware of the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2200.847,"endTime":2204.531,"body":"scale of the challenges that we face."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2204.561,"endTime":2207.991,"body":"So I think the world is at"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2204.561,"endTime":2207.991,"body":"a really critical moment."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2207.995,"endTime":2209.945,"body":"There's some really"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2207.995,"endTime":2209.945,"body":"substantial challenges."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2210.442,"endTime":2215.415,"body":"And they are challenging for our"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2210.442,"endTime":2215.415,"body":"industry because they require letting"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2215.415,"endTime":2220.035,"body":"go of things that we've done in the"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2215.415,"endTime":2220.035,"body":"past, as well as doing new things."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2220.385,"endTime":2223.565,"body":"There's so much that's"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2220.385,"endTime":2223.565,"body":"thought provoking in what you say."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2223.626,"endTime":2228.445,"body":"It's been a really interesting, engaging"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2223.626,"endTime":2228.445,"body":"conversation and I hope everyone"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2228.445,"endTime":2230.525,"body":"found that as interesting as I did."},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2230.575,"endTime":2233.335,"body":"Thank you so much"},{"speaker":"Jennifer Whyte","startTime":2230.575,"endTime":2233.335,"body":"Adam,  I've really enjoyed being here."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2233.349,"endTime":2234.709,"body":"thank you"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2233.349,"endTime":2234.709,"body":"everyone for listening."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2235.009,"endTime":2237.739,"body":"Please join us again for the next"},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2235.009,"endTime":2237.739,"body":"edition of Built Environment."},{"speaker":"Adam Jordan","startTime":2237.739,"endTime":2238.339,"body":"Matters."}]}