{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":0.049,"endTime":0.469,"body":"Hi, all."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":0.469,"endTime":3.379,"body":"Thanks for joining this episode"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":0.469,"endTime":3.379,"body":"of Built Environment Matters,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":3.379,"endTime":4.609,"body":"the Bryden Wood podcast."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":4.609,"endTime":6.709,"body":"I'm your returning host Jaimie Johnston."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":6.769,"endTime":9.859,"body":"And today I'm delighted to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":6.769,"endTime":9.859,"body":"be joined by Brett Rogers."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":10.009,"endTime":14.389,"body":"Brett's the CEO of KatalystDI, a tech"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":10.009,"endTime":14.389,"body":"company that develops and sells software"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":14.389,"endTime":18.109,"body":"as a service solutions that map and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":14.389,"endTime":18.109,"body":"manages the supply chains behind many of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":18.109,"endTime":19.999,"body":"the world's largest construction programs."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":20.169,"endTime":22.449,"body":"Brett's got over 20 years of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":20.169,"endTime":22.449,"body":"experience building teams and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":22.449,"endTime":25.719,"body":"delivery programs in support of global"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":22.449,"endTime":25.719,"body":"critical infrastructure delivery."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":26.329,"endTime":29.529,"body":"Throughout his career with Google, Tesla"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":26.329,"endTime":29.529,"body":"and others, he's delivered more than"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":29.529,"endTime":34.419,"body":"10 billion dollars worth of projects in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":29.529,"endTime":34.419,"body":"25 states or more, and four continents."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":35.019,"endTime":38.349,"body":"Brett hold a Bachelor of Science degree"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":35.019,"endTime":38.349,"body":"in Industrial Engineering from the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":38.349,"endTime":43.029,"body":"Pennsylvania State University Interstate"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":38.349,"endTime":43.029,"body":"College and lives in Atlanta, Georgia."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":43.783,"endTime":45.913,"body":"Hi Brett could be talking to you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":43.783,"endTime":45.913,"body":"again and thanks for joining us."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":46.663,"endTime":47.053,"body":"Hey Jaimie."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":47.053,"endTime":47.503,"body":"Good to see you."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":47.503,"endTime":48.643,"body":"And thanks for having me on."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":49.143,"endTime":50.973,"body":"Very good,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":49.143,"endTime":50.973,"body":"so let's get straight into it."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":51.073,"endTime":54.373,"body":"So we're gonna be talking a lot about"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":51.073,"endTime":54.373,"body":"integrating supply chain data into"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":54.373,"endTime":56.11,"body":"the design construction process."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":56.11,"endTime":60.97,"body":"That feels to me like a massively needed"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":56.11,"endTime":60.97,"body":"sort of missing piece of the puzzle."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":60.97,"endTime":64.36,"body":"So,  what we're starting to see is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":60.97,"endTime":64.36,"body":"obviously normal design assumes a kind of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":64.36,"endTime":67.981,"body":"very linear process where supply chains"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":64.36,"endTime":67.981,"body":"get engaged potentially quite late."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":68.352,"endTime":72.009,"body":"Even early contractor involvement  often"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":68.352,"endTime":72.009,"body":"means talking to general contractors"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":72.029,"endTime":75.012,"body":"or tier ones, but what we are seeing is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":72.029,"endTime":75.012,"body":"increasingly large serial clients want"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":75.017,"endTime":78.292,"body":"to get close to suppliers and adopt"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":75.017,"endTime":78.292,"body":"more standardized design, so perhaps"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":78.292,"endTime":82.642,"body":"you can unpack the sort of how and why"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":78.292,"endTime":82.642,"body":"of what KatalystDI does and explain a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":82.642,"endTime":84.862,"body":"bit more about the sort practicalities"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":82.642,"endTime":84.862,"body":"of what it is you guys are doing."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":85.822,"endTime":86.062,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":86.062,"endTime":86.362,"body":"Sure."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":86.362,"endTime":89.362,"body":"So obviously supply chain's become"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":86.362,"endTime":89.362,"body":"a very hot issue for our industry,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":89.362,"endTime":92.702,"body":"particularly over the last 18 months,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":89.362,"endTime":92.702,"body":"as people's projects and programs"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":92.702,"endTime":97.007,"body":"have become disrupted and I think"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":92.702,"endTime":97.007,"body":"that's been a good tailwind for us."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":97.577,"endTime":101.642,"body":"Where we work is really starting with"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":97.577,"endTime":101.642,"body":"our clients to help them develop an"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":101.642,"endTime":106.022,"body":"understanding of their supply chains, not"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":101.642,"endTime":106.022,"body":"just who those direct suppliers or tier"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":106.022,"endTime":110.072,"body":"one suppliers are, but who's the tier"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":106.022,"endTime":110.072,"body":"two suppliers and tier three suppliers,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":110.072,"endTime":112.682,"body":"which is often where that disruption lies."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":113.192,"endTime":116.102,"body":"Traditionally as an industry, we haven't"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":113.192,"endTime":116.102,"body":"thought much outside of those direct"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":116.867,"endTime":121.217,"body":"scopes, but today it's things like steel"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":116.867,"endTime":121.217,"body":"commodity, sometimes even something"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":121.217,"endTime":125.177,"body":"as simple as Unistrut or TPO roof"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":121.217,"endTime":125.177,"body":"membrane, which are delaying projects."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":125.457,"endTime":127.437,"body":"So we start really the,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":125.457,"endTime":127.437,"body":"how starts with that."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":127.617,"endTime":128.847,"body":"What is the supply chain?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":128.847,"endTime":129.927,"body":"How do we understand it?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":130.447,"endTime":134.392,"body":"So if you think about like Tesla"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":130.447,"endTime":134.392,"body":"and let's say a Model Three, they"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":134.397,"endTime":138.232,"body":"certainly understand their supply chain"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":134.397,"endTime":138.232,"body":"probably at four or five or six tiers."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":138.652,"endTime":140.452,"body":"Thousands of suppliers"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":138.652,"endTime":140.452,"body":"contributing into that."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":140.782,"endTime":145.042,"body":"I don't think builders necessarily"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":140.782,"endTime":145.042,"body":"need to go that far, but they can"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":145.042,"endTime":147.292,"body":"go a bit further than we do today."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":147.472,"endTime":148.552,"body":"Then we get into the why."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":148.582,"endTime":148.822,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":148.822,"endTime":153.142,"body":"And so when we integrate that and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":148.822,"endTime":153.142,"body":"define the definition of that supply"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":153.142,"endTime":157.192,"body":"chain, and we can start to collect"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":153.142,"endTime":157.192,"body":"even simple information from that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":157.192,"endTime":161.752,"body":"supply chain, such as lead times or"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":157.192,"endTime":161.752,"body":"inventory and production statuses, we"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":161.752,"endTime":166.402,"body":"can better inform decisions and allow"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":161.752,"endTime":166.402,"body":"owners to make more timely decisions."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":166.472,"endTime":170.061,"body":"If you think about how things work"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":166.472,"endTime":170.061,"body":"today, We'll have an architect and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":170.061,"endTime":174.391,"body":"engineering team, perhaps they'll"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":170.061,"endTime":174.391,"body":"issue a basis of design they'll work"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":174.391,"endTime":176.311,"body":"through the traditional design process."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":176.311,"endTime":180.151,"body":"And then two or three months later,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":176.311,"endTime":180.151,"body":"somebody might actually look at that and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":180.151,"endTime":183.061,"body":"start to source one of those packages"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":180.151,"endTime":183.061,"body":"and at some point they might raise their"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":183.061,"endTime":188.101,"body":"hand and say, well, Jaimie, we understand"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":183.061,"endTime":188.101,"body":"you want us to buy product A, but we"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":188.101,"endTime":190.171,"body":"can't get product A for nine months."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":190.391,"endTime":193.241,"body":"Would you consider accepting"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":190.391,"endTime":193.241,"body":"product B as an equivalent?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":193.571,"endTime":196.121,"body":"And so now we're two or three"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":193.571,"endTime":196.121,"body":"months into the process."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":196.431,"endTime":198.381,"body":"And we've probably put a"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":196.431,"endTime":198.381,"body":"timer on things, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":198.471,"endTime":200.841,"body":"So they're calling you, Hey, Jaimie,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":198.471,"endTime":200.841,"body":"I really need a decision on that."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":200.841,"endTime":202.131,"body":"Can you prioritise it today?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":202.641,"endTime":205.341,"body":"But if we had identified that two"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":202.641,"endTime":205.341,"body":"or three months earlier and there"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":205.341,"endTime":207.891,"body":"was data available, then we just"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":205.341,"endTime":207.891,"body":"didn't really have a system to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":207.891,"endTime":209.511,"body":"connect that data to the process."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":209.871,"endTime":213.921,"body":"We could have had a more mature and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":209.871,"endTime":213.921,"body":"less urgent conversation early on."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":213.921,"endTime":218.441,"body":"So I think it's a simple but very"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":213.921,"endTime":218.441,"body":"understandable example of why that supply"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":218.441,"endTime":221.711,"body":"chain data matters and why it needs to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":218.441,"endTime":221.711,"body":"be integrated into the process earlier."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":222.179,"endTime":222.359,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":222.359,"endTime":225.409,"body":"So you are starting with clients, or you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":222.359,"endTime":225.409,"body":"also concurrently working with suppliers"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":225.409,"endTime":228.949,"body":"and acting as a sort of matchmaker"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":225.409,"endTime":228.949,"body":"between suppliers of things, clients"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":228.949,"endTime":233.826,"body":"who need things, which one starts the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":228.949,"endTime":233.826,"body":"process and how much sort of variation"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":233.826,"endTime":236.816,"body":"or similarities you think between what"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":233.826,"endTime":236.816,"body":"these major clients are asking for?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":238.481,"endTime":238.691,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":238.741,"endTime":241.541,"body":"I think the owners"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":238.741,"endTime":241.541,"body":"usually start the process."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":241.571,"endTime":245.741,"body":"Although we're finding more and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":241.571,"endTime":245.741,"body":"more that we see general contractors"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":245.791,"endTime":249.666,"body":"wanting to play sort of that matchmaker"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":245.791,"endTime":249.666,"body":"role, obviously  that's their role"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":249.716,"endTime":251.966,"body":"in the ecosystem as it exists today."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":252.716,"endTime":255.746,"body":"Usually we see it start with"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":252.716,"endTime":255.746,"body":"disruption in a program, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":255.746,"endTime":260.366,"body":"So, we have an owner that might be"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":255.746,"endTime":260.366,"body":"planning around an 18 month build"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":260.366,"endTime":263.936,"body":"cycle and they have eight or 10 or"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":260.366,"endTime":263.936,"body":"12 projects going on at any one time."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":264.176,"endTime":268.286,"body":"And then all of a sudden they start to see"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":264.176,"endTime":268.286,"body":"those projects being disrupted and delayed"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":268.466,"endTime":270.826,"body":"by certain aspects of their supply chain."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":270.926,"endTime":274.726,"body":"And then that becomes important and urgent"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":270.926,"endTime":274.726,"body":"to them to understand and an incentive to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":274.726,"endTime":277.066,"body":"start to understand it at a greater depth."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":277.876,"endTime":281.866,"body":"Commonality, I think exists"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":277.876,"endTime":281.866,"body":"across our owners  in that they're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":281.986,"endTime":283.546,"body":"generally focused on similar things."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":283.551,"endTime":286.546,"body":"We work with owners in what we call"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":283.551,"endTime":286.546,"body":"the digital infrastructure space."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":286.906,"endTime":290.586,"body":"So we define that as energy,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":286.906,"endTime":290.586,"body":"data center and communications"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":290.586,"endTime":292.146,"body":"and advanced tech manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":292.146,"endTime":295.806,"body":"And that covers things like electric"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":292.146,"endTime":295.806,"body":"vehicles, batteries, semiconductors,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":295.806,"endTime":299.596,"body":"pharma, projects that are very"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":295.806,"endTime":299.596,"body":"mechanically and electrically complex."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":299.686,"endTime":303.611,"body":"So we see similar disruption"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":299.686,"endTime":303.611,"body":"across those clients in similar"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":303.611,"endTime":304.841,"body":"areas of their supply chain."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":305.688,"endTime":306.348,"body":"Yeah, that's interesting."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":306.348,"endTime":309.896,"body":"So, from that list, it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":306.348,"endTime":309.896,"body":"it's definitely the big serial"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":309.896,"endTime":312.836,"body":"clients who have a program of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":309.896,"endTime":312.836,"body":"works that they're rolling out."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":313.646,"endTime":318.126,"body":"You started doing this before Covid kicked"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":313.646,"endTime":318.126,"body":"off, but what was the impact of Covid"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":318.126,"endTime":322.106,"body":"I presume it kind of accelerated the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":318.126,"endTime":322.106,"body":"disruption and made it much more necessary"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":322.106,"endTime":324.236,"body":"for people to suddenly understand"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":322.106,"endTime":324.236,"body":"their supply chains, particularly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":324.236,"endTime":327.676,"body":"as costs are becoming incredibly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":324.236,"endTime":327.676,"body":"variable, even for commodities material."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":328.682,"endTime":329.912,"body":"Yeah, it's interesting."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":329.922,"endTime":333.282,"body":"We have a lot of clients who are"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":329.922,"endTime":333.282,"body":"planning and budgeting their projects"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":333.282,"endTime":336.852,"body":"off of historical information and then"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":333.282,"endTime":336.852,"body":"they're wondering why when they go out"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":336.852,"endTime":339.372,"body":"and start talking to their partners,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":336.852,"endTime":339.372,"body":"they're so much more expensive."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":339.377,"endTime":340.382,"body":"And, and when you look at."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":340.542,"endTime":345.122,"body":"Construction cost index, at least here"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":340.542,"endTime":345.122,"body":"in the United States from, let's say"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":345.122,"endTime":352.682,"body":"April 2022, April, 2021, I believe"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":345.122,"endTime":352.682,"body":"cumulatively it's a 15.7% increase, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":352.687,"endTime":357.392,"body":"Within certain areas like"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":352.687,"endTime":357.392,"body":"rebars 115% copper, 75%."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":357.392,"endTime":360.212,"body":"Like it's massive, massive disconnects."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":360.612,"endTime":364.892,"body":"It's been interesting obviously it"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":360.612,"endTime":364.892,"body":"created ripples in the supply chain."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":365.325,"endTime":371.355,"body":"I think it did bring certainly a desire"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":365.325,"endTime":371.355,"body":"to better understand supply chains, but"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":371.355,"endTime":375.375,"body":"it also might have brought a lack of focus"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":371.355,"endTime":375.375,"body":"on long-term thinking, cuz so many of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":375.375,"endTime":379.615,"body":"the clients that we're working with today"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":375.375,"endTime":379.615,"body":"they're actually looking to correct the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":379.615,"endTime":385.225,"body":"sins of nine months ago or 12 months ago"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":379.615,"endTime":385.225,"body":"and it's hard to fix something  that could"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":385.225,"endTime":390.205,"body":"have been fixed, you know, a year ago,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":385.225,"endTime":390.205,"body":"but today has turned into a fire drill."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":390.535,"endTime":394.105,"body":"So it, it really turns into"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":390.535,"endTime":394.105,"body":"sort of a two-prong effort."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":394.135,"endTime":398.895,"body":"One, how do I fix what I have going"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":394.135,"endTime":398.895,"body":"on right now that's super urgent and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":398.895,"endTime":402.315,"body":"in front of me, and while I'm doing"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":398.895,"endTime":402.315,"body":"that, how do I find a little bit"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":402.315,"endTime":406.905,"body":"of energy and focus to plan longer"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":402.315,"endTime":406.905,"body":"term so this doesn't happen again?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":407.145,"endTime":412.005,"body":"And the truth is usually the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":407.145,"endTime":412.005,"body":"now trumps the future state."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":412.315,"endTime":415.72,"body":"So clients often  are choosing"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":412.315,"endTime":415.72,"body":"between those two and frankly"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":415.72,"endTime":416.8,"body":"it's a challenge, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":416.8,"endTime":419.65,"body":"And we're gonna end up with a cycle"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":416.8,"endTime":419.65,"body":"where in, in nine months we're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":419.655,"endTime":422.17,"body":"gonna be having the exact same thing"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":419.655,"endTime":422.17,"body":"because we haven't gotten out in"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":422.17,"endTime":423.4,"body":"front of it with certain clients."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":423.998,"endTime":425.938,"body":"I presume  you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":423.998,"endTime":425.938,"body":"can see this stabilising now."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":425.938,"endTime":430.133,"body":"I guess over time, your data set"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":425.938,"endTime":430.133,"body":"gets better and your reactivity"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":430.133,"endTime":432.893,"body":"gets quicker and eventually"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":430.133,"endTime":432.893,"body":"you'll  close this gap, will you?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":432.898,"endTime":436.482,"body":"But  yeah, there's a short term pain"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":432.898,"endTime":436.482,"body":"while you start to stabilise this stuff"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":436.487,"endTime":437.807,"body":"and make it more freely available."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":438.587,"endTime":441.297,"body":"There is and certain"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":438.587,"endTime":441.297,"body":"suppliers I think have done a really"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":441.297,"endTime":445.782,"body":"good job of getting transparent with"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":441.297,"endTime":445.782,"body":"their customers about what's going on."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":445.932,"endTime":448.192,"body":"And maybe that's a little"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":445.932,"endTime":448.192,"body":"bit of a defense mechanism."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":448.352,"endTime":449.512,"body":"Hey, why are you so disrupted?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":449.512,"endTime":451.312,"body":"Well, listen, we're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":449.512,"endTime":451.312,"body":"communicating this to you."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":451.822,"endTime":455.792,"body":"As an example, I'll use,  Rockwell"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":451.822,"endTime":455.792,"body":"Automation and so Rockwell is a good"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":455.792,"endTime":460.562,"body":"example of what's probably a tier two"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":455.792,"endTime":460.562,"body":"or tier three supplier in our space."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":460.842,"endTime":466.162,"body":"There's direct purchases from Rockwell on"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":460.842,"endTime":466.162,"body":"the control side in most of the projects"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":466.162,"endTime":470.182,"body":"that we deal with, but more importantly,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":466.162,"endTime":470.182,"body":"they're supplying into the electrical and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":470.182,"endTime":474.907,"body":"mechanical gear and systems that are often"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":470.182,"endTime":474.907,"body":"the more prevalent tier one purchases."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":475.147,"endTime":477.817,"body":"Well, Rockwell's updating their"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":475.147,"endTime":477.817,"body":"lead times every two weeks."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":478.097,"endTime":482.482,"body":"They're tracking several hundred SKUs"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":478.097,"endTime":482.482,"body":"that they're reporting out on and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":482.482,"endTime":485.632,"body":"they're being very transparent with"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":482.482,"endTime":485.632,"body":"the customers about what's going on."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":485.962,"endTime":488.422,"body":"I wouldn't say we're seeing"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":485.962,"endTime":488.422,"body":"that with everybody though."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":488.612,"endTime":493.642,"body":"And so with most suppliers our customers"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":488.612,"endTime":493.642,"body":"and the builders that we work with need"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":493.642,"endTime":498.022,"body":"to be a little bit more proactive in going"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":493.642,"endTime":498.022,"body":"out and collecting and trending that data."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":498.412,"endTime":501.412,"body":"Our job is to help 'em do that and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":498.412,"endTime":501.412,"body":"help 'em bring all that information"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":501.652,"endTime":506.457,"body":"into one place that's organised around"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":501.652,"endTime":506.457,"body":"the packages that they're buying today"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":506.487,"endTime":510.357,"body":"and give them sort of a single plane"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":506.487,"endTime":510.357,"body":"of glass to visualize what's going on"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":510.627,"endTime":512.397,"body":"within both the planning side, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":512.397,"endTime":515.547,"body":"The lead time side and the production"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":512.397,"endTime":515.547,"body":"side of their supply chain."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":516.272,"endTime":517.022,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":516.272,"endTime":517.022,"body":"so that's interesting."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":517.022,"endTime":521.612,"body":"So how easy is it to get presume you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":517.022,"endTime":521.612,"body":"require certain consistency of data"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":522.222,"endTime":525.252,"body":"both in terms of what the suppliers"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":522.222,"endTime":525.252,"body":"are giving you and in terms of what"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":525.252,"endTime":527.472,"body":"clients are needing, and then there's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":525.252,"endTime":527.472,"body":"some interpretation in the middle."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":527.519,"endTime":529.139,"body":"How easy is it to get the data you need?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":529.144,"endTime":531.734,"body":"Cuz it's one of the things that's been"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":529.144,"endTime":531.734,"body":"talked about, certainly in the UK for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":531.791,"endTime":535.601,"body":"years now is how to get consistent"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":531.791,"endTime":535.601,"body":"data up from the supply chain, build it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":535.601,"endTime":537.536,"body":"into this collaborative way of working."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":537.926,"endTime":540.626,"body":"And that's always the missing piece"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":537.926,"endTime":540.626,"body":"actually getting the data in a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":540.626,"endTime":543.046,"body":"format you can do something with"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":540.626,"endTime":543.046,"body":"and analyse it, but presume you,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":543.046,"endTime":544.701,"body":"you're some way to cracking that now."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":545.174,"endTime":546.634,"body":"We're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":545.174,"endTime":546.634,"body":"working on cracking it."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":546.684,"endTime":547.974,"body":"It's still a challenge, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":547.974,"endTime":552.974,"body":"And so this is one of the, the things"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":547.974,"endTime":552.974,"body":"that we talk about quite a bit and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":552.974,"endTime":556.464,"body":"particularly with customers is we"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":552.974,"endTime":556.464,"body":"don't have a truth serum, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":556.464,"endTime":559.729,"body":"And we've had suppliers and contractors"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":556.464,"endTime":559.729,"body":"say, Hey, listen, the truth is,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":559.729,"endTime":561.109,"body":"we're all lying to each other."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":561.559,"endTime":566.669,"body":"Not out of a malevolent motivation,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":561.559,"endTime":566.669,"body":"but because we're each hoping"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":566.669,"endTime":570.389,"body":"we're gonna go fix the problem"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":566.669,"endTime":570.389,"body":"individually and never have to talk"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":570.389,"endTime":571.769,"body":"about what's actually going on."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":572.349,"endTime":575.129,"body":"And so  we don't have a truth"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":572.349,"endTime":575.129,"body":"serum, but what we do have is"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":575.129,"endTime":577.204,"body":"a platform that starts to one."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":577.779,"endTime":581.739,"body":"Integrate different data sets"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":577.779,"endTime":581.739,"body":"from different suppliers so we"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":581.739,"endTime":584.559,"body":"can see and trend what's going"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":581.739,"endTime":584.559,"body":"on within the supply chain."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":584.679,"endTime":589.729,"body":"And two, I think create a little bit"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":584.679,"endTime":589.729,"body":"of more formal accountability into"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":589.729,"endTime":591.469,"body":"the information that's being reported."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":591.829,"endTime":596.049,"body":"So it's one thing for an owner or"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":591.829,"endTime":596.049,"body":"a contractor to call a supplier and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":596.049,"endTime":598.779,"body":"say, Hey, when can you deliver me X?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":598.779,"endTime":599.079,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":599.079,"endTime":601.689,"body":"And you might get one bit of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":599.079,"endTime":601.689,"body":"information associated with that."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":602.049,"endTime":608.424,"body":"It's another thing to track that week"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":602.049,"endTime":608.424,"body":"over week and do it in a documented formal"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":608.424,"endTime":610.324,"body":"fashion and it shouldn't be different."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":610.354,"endTime":614.519,"body":"We shouldn't get different information in"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":610.354,"endTime":614.519,"body":"that way, but the truth is we do, right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":614.524,"endTime":618.604,"body":"And we start to kind of create that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":614.524,"endTime":618.604,"body":"accountability at a system level"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":618.944,"endTime":620.349,"body":"and it helps to move things forward."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":620.559,"endTime":623.559,"body":"The other thing is when we start"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":620.559,"endTime":623.559,"body":"to understand our tier two and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":623.559,"endTime":627.039,"body":"tier three supply chain, we can"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":623.559,"endTime":627.039,"body":"start to see patterns, right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":627.039,"endTime":631.949,"body":"So using that Rockwell example if I'm"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":627.039,"endTime":631.949,"body":"a data center builder and, and perhaps"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":631.949,"endTime":636.209,"body":"I'm calling a Schneider or an Eaton or"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":631.949,"endTime":636.209,"body":"an ABB or an ENI and saying, Hey, how"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":636.209,"endTime":640.779,"body":"soon can you get me this piece of low"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":636.209,"endTime":640.779,"body":"voltage switch gear or how soon can you"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":640.879,"endTime":643.299,"body":"give me this critical ups container?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":643.749,"endTime":644.979,"body":"They might give me one answer."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":646.269,"endTime":648.179,"body":"I can ask a second tier question."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":648.369,"endTime":650.769,"body":"If I understand the supply"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":648.369,"endTime":650.769,"body":"chain behind it a little bit."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":650.769,"endTime":654.549,"body":"So, as an example, if I know that there's"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":650.769,"endTime":654.549,"body":"a particular controller that comes"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":654.549,"endTime":659.164,"body":"from Rockwell, Or a particular relay"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":654.549,"endTime":659.164,"body":"that comes from Schweitzer and perhaps"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":659.164,"endTime":663.004,"body":"it has a 24 week lead time and this"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":659.164,"endTime":663.004,"body":"vendors tell me, why I can do it in 20"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":663.004,"endTime":664.834,"body":"weeks that prompts me, ask the question."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":664.864,"endTime":665.644,"body":"Oh, cool."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":665.674,"endTime":667.294,"body":"Do you have that in inventory?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":667.324,"endTime":670.774,"body":"Do you already have that component"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":667.324,"endTime":670.774,"body":"purchased or are you gonna surprise"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":670.774,"endTime":673.204,"body":"me in two or three weeks and come"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":670.774,"endTime":673.204,"body":"back and tell me it's a different"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":673.204,"endTime":676.999,"body":"lead time, because then you've"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":673.204,"endTime":676.999,"body":"gone out to Schweitzer or whomever"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":676.999,"endTime":679.764,"body":"that supplier might be and actually"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":676.999,"endTime":679.764,"body":"found out that things have changed."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":680.214,"endTime":682.764,"body":"The supply chain right"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":680.214,"endTime":682.764,"body":"now is so dynamic, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":682.764,"endTime":688.189,"body":"We see suppliers quoting lead times"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":682.764,"endTime":688.189,"body":"and delivery dates with maybe one"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":688.189,"endTime":692.549,"body":"or two week certainty and, the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":688.189,"endTime":692.549,"body":"lead time two weeks later could be"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":692.549,"endTime":694.379,"body":"dramatically different than it is today."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":694.799,"endTime":696.264,"body":"So it's an interesting time for sure."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":696.264,"endTime":699.534,"body":"It's very, very hard to plan at a"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":696.264,"endTime":699.534,"body":"program level, particularly when"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":699.539,"endTime":703.494,"body":"everybody's still trying to incorporate"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":699.539,"endTime":703.494,"body":"sort of just in time approaches, right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":703.794,"endTime":705.564,"body":"Just in time is fabulous."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":706.064,"endTime":711.494,"body":"Until it's not and so it's great in that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":706.064,"endTime":711.494,"body":"I don't need to invest a ton of money"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":712.094,"endTime":714.074,"body":"I've planned around just in time delivery."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":714.079,"endTime":717.104,"body":"So I'm optimising when I spend"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":714.079,"endTime":717.104,"body":"money and when I make decisions,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":717.524,"endTime":719.264,"body":"but it's not very fault tolerant."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":719.264,"endTime":723.074,"body":"So when that breaks, the system tends to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":719.264,"endTime":723.074,"body":"break and there tends to be quite a bit"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":723.079,"endTime":728.129,"body":"of ripples throughout the supply chain and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":723.079,"endTime":728.129,"body":"so understanding that allows a lot of our"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":728.129,"endTime":732.909,"body":"customers to make more informed decisions,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":728.129,"endTime":732.909,"body":"set up vendor managed inventory, or kanban"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":732.959,"endTime":734.789,"body":"type buffer systems in their programs."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":735.472,"endTime":738.022,"body":"One of the things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":735.472,"endTime":738.022,"body":"we've seen for some of our clients in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":738.022,"endTime":742.432,"body":"this space is that if they bought a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":738.022,"endTime":742.432,"body":"completely standard thing off the shelf."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":743.092,"endTime":745.972,"body":"You can have it in X number of weeks,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":743.092,"endTime":745.972,"body":"but they never ask for the standard one,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":745.972,"endTime":749.242,"body":"they tweak it and change it and adjust"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":745.972,"endTime":749.242,"body":"it and say, I just want a normal thing."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":749.242,"endTime":752.362,"body":"But with these modifications and it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":749.242,"endTime":752.362,"body":"blows the time budget and it suddenly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":752.362,"endTime":756.737,"body":"twice as long, are you starting to see,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":752.362,"endTime":756.737,"body":"firstly, is that sort of true statement?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":756.737,"endTime":758.027,"body":"Does that tend to be the case?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":758.027,"endTime":761.447,"body":"and are you starting to see supplier's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":758.027,"endTime":761.447,"body":"react and say, yes, I could give you that,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":761.447,"endTime":762.827,"body":"but it would take this amount of time."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":762.827,"endTime":765.887,"body":"If you bought this one off the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":762.827,"endTime":765.887,"body":"shelf, I could have it much quickly."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":765.887,"endTime":768.677,"body":"And therefore the design adapts"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":765.887,"endTime":768.677,"body":"to say, well, let's try and design"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":768.677,"endTime":771.167,"body":"toward a standard product, or"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":768.677,"endTime":771.167,"body":"are you not at that point yet?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":773.672,"endTime":774.302,"body":"A little bit."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":774.302,"endTime":778.952,"body":"It's a tricky question in, in the sense"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":774.302,"endTime":778.952,"body":"that I think a lot of customers believe"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":778.952,"endTime":783.922,"body":"that off the shelf is truly off the shelf"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":778.952,"endTime":783.922,"body":"meaning that off the shelf means I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":783.922,"endTime":788.462,"body":"place an order and similar to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":783.922,"endTime":788.462,"body":"perhaps ordering a toaster on Amazon."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":788.462,"endTime":790.832,"body":"Somebody's gonna go pull"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":788.462,"endTime":790.832,"body":"that order from a warehouse."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":791.022,"endTime":793.182,"body":"Put it on a truck and ship it"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":791.022,"endTime":793.182,"body":"to me and I, and I get it in"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":793.182,"endTime":794.322,"body":"a very short amount of time."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":794.862,"endTime":797.922,"body":"So what off the shelf in our"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":794.862,"endTime":797.922,"body":"industry really means is sort of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":797.922,"endTime":801.907,"body":"out of the catalogue, so I've got"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":797.922,"endTime":801.907,"body":"a manufacturing queue, perhaps I"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":801.907,"endTime":806.167,"body":"have an open manufacturing slot,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":801.907,"endTime":806.167,"body":"18 weeks in the future, and I stock"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":806.167,"endTime":809.707,"body":"the components required to produce"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":806.167,"endTime":809.707,"body":"that out of the catalogue item."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":809.977,"endTime":814.837,"body":"So, the first step there is to really make"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":809.977,"endTime":814.837,"body":"sure that, that our customers understand."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":815.027,"endTime":818.327,"body":"The difference between sort of off the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":815.027,"endTime":818.327,"body":"shelf and, and make to order catalog"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":818.327,"endTime":821.027,"body":"components supported by inventory."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":821.027,"endTime":822.257,"body":"That's already in stock."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":823.007,"endTime":826.877,"body":"I think the second part of the equation"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":823.007,"endTime":826.877,"body":"is, is oftentimes the connection"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":826.882,"endTime":831.707,"body":"isn't there between the supply chain"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":826.882,"endTime":831.707,"body":"and the owners to actually allow the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":831.707,"endTime":835.187,"body":"supply chain to raise their hand and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":831.707,"endTime":835.187,"body":"say, Hey, if you just made these three"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":835.187,"endTime":840.177,"body":"minor modifications to your design and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":835.187,"endTime":840.177,"body":"perhaps you've asked for silver plating"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":840.197,"endTime":844.887,"body":"on your bus and we carry bus that's"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":840.197,"endTime":844.887,"body":"not silver plated, but we think it can"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":844.887,"endTime":850.947,"body":"perform equivalent or you've speced"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":844.887,"endTime":850.947,"body":"this very specific current transformer"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":851.007,"endTime":853.317,"body":"on your medium voltage incoming feeds."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":853.647,"endTime":855.867,"body":"We stock a different brand"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":853.647,"endTime":855.867,"body":"that we think is equivalent."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":855.867,"endTime":856.827,"body":"Would you consider it?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":857.217,"endTime":861.177,"body":"We don't see those conversations"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":857.217,"endTime":861.177,"body":"happening enough because of the lack"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":861.177,"endTime":865.262,"body":"of connection between the suppliers"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":861.177,"endTime":865.262,"body":"and the owners at the right time in the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":865.262,"endTime":867.692,"body":"process, that's where we want to get."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":867.692,"endTime":871.927,"body":"We wanna make it very easy for"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":867.692,"endTime":871.927,"body":"owners and builders to understand"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":872.197,"endTime":875.737,"body":"what alternates might be available"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":872.197,"endTime":875.737,"body":"that could provide those benefits."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":876.087,"endTime":877.047,"body":"We're getting there right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":877.052,"endTime":879.477,"body":"As an industry, we're getting"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":877.052,"endTime":879.477,"body":"there, but we're not there yet."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":879.817,"endTime":879.997,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":879.997,"endTime":883.147,"body":"But that's a  vitally important"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":879.997,"endTime":883.147,"body":"data clearinghouse that you guys"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":883.187,"endTime":885.587,"body":"could perform, and that would"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":883.187,"endTime":885.587,"body":"help both sides of the equation."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":886.557,"endTime":888.297,"body":"That's the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":886.557,"endTime":888.297,"body":"perfect future, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":888.297,"endTime":891.147,"body":"And if you think about like, you"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":888.297,"endTime":891.147,"body":"know, you and I do a lot of work in"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":891.147,"endTime":895.797,"body":"the data center industry, so we're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":891.147,"endTime":895.797,"body":"exposed to a lot of different designs."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":896.982,"endTime":903.132,"body":"Everybody's design is almost the same,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":896.982,"endTime":903.132,"body":"but it's also entirely different, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":903.162,"endTime":907.122,"body":"Meaning that it's a completely different"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":903.162,"endTime":907.122,"body":"supply chain because of that one"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":907.122,"endTime":911.172,"body":"current transformer, or because somebody"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":907.122,"endTime":911.172,"body":"says, well, I prefer Schweitzer  relay"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":911.172,"endTime":913.152,"body":"to a BA relay for this application."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":913.582,"endTime":919.217,"body":"And so we create this variance and sort"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":913.582,"endTime":919.217,"body":"of bespokeness to our supply chains."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":919.617,"endTime":923.787,"body":"You know, it makes me wonder what could"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":919.617,"endTime":923.787,"body":"you really build a data center for"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":923.787,"endTime":925.707,"body":"from a cost and schedule perspective."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":926.757,"endTime":929.637,"body":"If everybody sort of optimized"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":926.757,"endTime":929.637,"body":"around the same thing and took"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":929.637,"endTime":934.707,"body":"the 1% area that there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":929.637,"endTime":934.707,"body":"variance and actually standardised it."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":935.077,"endTime":939.432,"body":"And so you think about like, You know,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":935.077,"endTime":939.432,"body":"sometimes I think about like, maybe this"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":939.432,"endTime":942.942,"body":"is a really nerdy thing to say, but like"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":939.432,"endTime":942.942,"body":"what if Elon Musk built a data center?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":943.242,"endTime":943.482,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":943.482,"endTime":947.022,"body":"And so you see how Elon Musk builds"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":943.482,"endTime":947.022,"body":"rockets and, and looks at things"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":947.027,"endTime":950.402,"body":"really from a bottoms up perspective"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":947.027,"endTime":950.402,"body":"and a should cost perspective."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":950.697,"endTime":952.407,"body":"You look at what he's done with vehicles."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":952.407,"endTime":952.647,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":952.647,"endTime":956.757,"body":"In 2014, when I was at Tesla, I can't"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":952.647,"endTime":956.757,"body":"remember what they were building model"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":956.757,"endTime":961.737,"body":"S's for, but I think it was something like"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":956.757,"endTime":961.737,"body":"$185,000 and selling them for $85,000."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":962.127,"endTime":964.377,"body":"And a lot of people are like, well,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":962.127,"endTime":964.377,"body":"that's a terrible business model."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":964.382,"endTime":966.477,"body":"You're losing a hundred"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":964.382,"endTime":966.477,"body":"thousand dollars per car."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":966.897,"endTime":971.042,"body":"But when you have a team that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":966.897,"endTime":971.042,"body":"understands exactly what every step of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":971.042,"endTime":974.992,"body":"the process should cost and understands"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":971.042,"endTime":974.992,"body":"how they're going to move things"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":974.992,"endTime":978.35,"body":"in that direction and then takes"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":974.992,"endTime":978.35,"body":"the incremental steps to get there."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":978.352,"endTime":980.812,"body":"You know, obviously they, they got there"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":978.352,"endTime":980.812,"body":"and now they're producing some of the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":980.812,"endTime":983.032,"body":"highest margins in the auto industry."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":983.962,"endTime":987.937,"body":"It would be interesting to think about"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":983.962,"endTime":987.937,"body":"like where could data centers get if"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":987.937,"endTime":989.467,"body":"somebody were to take that approach?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":989.467,"endTime":992.997,"body":"Cause the truth is that 1% of variance"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":989.467,"endTime":992.997,"body":"still creates a lot of bespokeness."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":993.846,"endTime":994.026,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":994.026,"endTime":994.536,"body":"That's interesting."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":994.586,"endTime":997.796,"body":"That reminds me sort of changing tack a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":994.586,"endTime":997.796,"body":"bit, perhaps you can unpack a bit of your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":997.796,"endTime":1000.536,"body":"incredible CV, Tesla, Google, and others."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1000.536,"endTime":1003.936,"body":"So perhaps you can talk through that sort"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1000.536,"endTime":1003.936,"body":"of journey and how you founded  KatalystDI"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1003.936,"endTime":1005.226,"body":"and what that was in response to."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1005.406,"endTime":1008.776,"body":"So that's really interesting that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1005.406,"endTime":1008.776,"body":"obviously you and I share a particular"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1008.776,"endTime":1012.096,"body":"way of thinking, a lot of your experience"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1008.776,"endTime":1012.096,"body":"tends to come from those, you say"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1012.096,"endTime":1014.416,"body":"slightly higher tech industries."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1014.596,"endTime":1018.286,"body":"Do you think that's why KatalystDI sort"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1014.596,"endTime":1018.286,"body":"of started there or is it those, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1018.286,"endTime":1022.306,"body":"ones that most like to come more like"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1018.286,"endTime":1022.306,"body":"automotive say because the repeatability"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1022.311,"endTime":1024.111,"body":"in things, there's a few, yeah."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1024.116,"endTime":1025.611,"body":"I'm interested to see how you think."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1025.616,"endTime":1025.971,"body":"I think."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1026.271,"endTime":1029.001,"body":"What KatalystDI is doing is starting"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1026.271,"endTime":1029.001,"body":"to fill in some of those gap."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1029.001,"endTime":1032.181,"body":"And everyone sort of talked"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1029.001,"endTime":1032.181,"body":"previously about, we need to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1032.181,"endTime":1033.411,"body":"become more like automotive."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1033.501,"endTime":1036.051,"body":"I don't think that happens necessarily"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1033.501,"endTime":1036.051,"body":"in the design space, but certainly in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1036.051,"endTime":1040.551,"body":"the supply chain engagement, that's a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1036.051,"endTime":1040.551,"body":"key area where we should get better."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1041.216,"endTime":1041.696,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1041.726,"endTime":1045.546,"body":"So look, , I went to college and knew"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1041.726,"endTime":1045.546,"body":"I wanted an engineering degree mainly"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1045.546,"endTime":1049.266,"body":"because I did halfway decent kind of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1045.546,"endTime":1049.266,"body":"coming up in, in math and science."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1049.266,"endTime":1051.216,"body":"I said, well, and engineers"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1049.266,"endTime":1051.216,"body":"can make a great living."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1051.216,"endTime":1052.026,"body":"I'll be an engineer."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1052.031,"endTime":1052.206,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1052.206,"endTime":1056.621,"body":"And so I took some electrical engineering"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1052.206,"endTime":1056.621,"body":"courses and sort of like, oh shit."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1056.681,"endTime":1058.061,"body":"Like, this is way, way too hard."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1058.061,"endTime":1060.191,"body":"And I'm 19 years old and I'm"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1058.061,"endTime":1060.191,"body":"not ready to work this hard."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1060.561,"endTime":1063.881,"body":"And so industrial engineering was, you"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1060.561,"endTime":1063.881,"body":"know, some people call it imaginary"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1063.881,"endTime":1067.446,"body":"engineering  and some true, you know,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1063.881,"endTime":1067.446,"body":"engineering purists will say, well,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1067.446,"endTime":1070.116,"body":"industrial engineering's actually,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1067.446,"endTime":1070.116,"body":"it, it should be a business course."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1070.15,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"It really resonated with me the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1070.15,"endTime":1073.4,"body":"way of thinking, that came out of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1073.4,"endTime":1076.43,"body":"industrial engineering, the system"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1073.4,"endTime":1076.43,"body":"level thinking and, and planning."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1076.88,"endTime":1078.89,"body":"And so this was in the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1076.88,"endTime":1078.89,"body":"mid nineties, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1078.89,"endTime":1082.455,"body":"so when you're an industrial engineering"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1078.89,"endTime":1082.455,"body":"student in the mid nineties, they"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1082.455,"endTime":1085.695,"body":"basically give you a couple books"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1082.455,"endTime":1085.695,"body":"to read when you start out, right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1085.695,"endTime":1089.715,"body":"One one's called, called The Factory"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1085.695,"endTime":1089.715,"body":"and or The Goal and the other, which"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1089.715,"endTime":1093.395,"body":"is about a factory in implementation"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1089.715,"endTime":1093.395,"body":"of lean manufacturing and the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1093.395,"endTime":1096.595,"body":"other is some of the early Toyota"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1093.395,"endTime":1096.595,"body":"lean manufacturing principles."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1096.595,"endTime":1099.305,"body":"So again, interesting cuz it does"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1096.595,"endTime":1099.305,"body":"come out of automotive, right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1099.395,"endTime":1103.765,"body":"And Toyota sort of set the benchmark"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1099.395,"endTime":1103.765,"body":"for manufacturers on  how to evolve."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1104.365,"endTime":1109.105,"body":"So I'd get outta school, end up with"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1104.365,"endTime":1109.105,"body":"a job with a manufacturing company and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1109.105,"endTime":1112.215,"body":"they were building a new plant, and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1109.105,"endTime":1112.215,"body":"so all the other industrial engineers"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1112.215,"endTime":1114.32,"body":"were busy doing industrial engineering."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1114.32,"endTime":1115.43,"body":"They're like, all right,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1114.32,"endTime":1115.43,"body":"you're the new guy."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1115.67,"endTime":1118.88,"body":"Why don't you go kind of help"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1115.67,"endTime":1118.88,"body":"coordinate this, this new plant build."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1119.15,"endTime":1122.36,"body":"And I loved construction"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1119.15,"endTime":1122.36,"body":"from that point on, right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1122.36,"endTime":1126.895,"body":"So quickly, I sort of stepped into"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1122.36,"endTime":1126.895,"body":"building  and it's not that I, I sought"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1126.895,"endTime":1130.855,"body":"out data centers, but I ended up in"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1126.895,"endTime":1130.855,"body":"Northern Virginia or Ashburn, Virginia,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1130.86,"endTime":1134.035,"body":"which is sort of the epicenter still"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1130.86,"endTime":1134.035,"body":"today of the data center industry."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1134.415,"endTime":1135.577,"body":"In the late nineties."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1135.577,"endTime":1137.887,"body":"And so this is when data centers"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1135.577,"endTime":1137.887,"body":"were really starting out."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1137.887,"endTime":1141.607,"body":"I worked at AOL built, a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1137.887,"endTime":1141.607,"body":"data centers came up through there."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1141.61,"endTime":1145.065,"body":"ended up doing a lot of development"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1141.61,"endTime":1145.065,"body":"management and owners rep work  for"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1145.065,"endTime":1149.215,"body":"various enterprises building data"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1145.065,"endTime":1149.215,"body":"centers did that for, you know,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1149.245,"endTime":1152.185,"body":"roughly 15 years went over to Tesla."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1153.91,"endTime":1157.93,"body":"My first package that I had to go"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1153.91,"endTime":1157.93,"body":"to Elon to get approved at Tesla"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1157.93,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"was a steel package and it was"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1157.93,"endTime":1160.9,"body":"something like 28 million dollars."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1161.44,"endTime":1164.21,"body":"It wasn't that significant  when"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1161.44,"endTime":1164.21,"body":"you consider that we're running a"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1164.27,"endTime":1166.82,"body":"couple billion dollar build program."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1167.515,"endTime":1168.955,"body":"But he grilled me, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1168.955,"endTime":1171.985,"body":"He's like, well, what should this,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1168.955,"endTime":1171.985,"body":"what should this cost is 28 million,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1172.385,"endTime":1175.005,"body":"a good cost and, it's a great cost."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1175.335,"endTime":1177.015,"body":"This is what the commodity cost."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1177.015,"endTime":1180.825,"body":"This is what the fabrication breakdown is,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1177.015,"endTime":1180.825,"body":"this is what we're paying for logistics."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1181.275,"endTime":1183.285,"body":"This is what we're paying"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1181.275,"endTime":1183.285,"body":"for erection on site."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1184.355,"endTime":1186.275,"body":"And I thought I provided a"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1184.355,"endTime":1186.275,"body":"great answer and I didn't."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1186.279,"endTime":1189.159,"body":"And, and so, you know, Elon's"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1186.279,"endTime":1189.159,"body":"very demanding kind of gets,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1189.159,"endTime":1190.389,"body":"gets very to the point."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1190.389,"endTime":1192.489,"body":"And he's like, that's not what I"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1190.389,"endTime":1192.489,"body":"asked you, what should it cost?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1192.489,"endTime":1196.119,"body":"And I said, all right, kind of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1192.489,"endTime":1196.119,"body":"went through the, the same answer."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1196.169,"endTime":1197.414,"body":"And so now he's a little bit madder."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1197.414,"endTime":1199.644,"body":"Right and, and he said, I wanna know."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1200.239,"endTime":1203.239,"body":"What does the iron ore cost,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1200.239,"endTime":1203.239,"body":"what does it cost to extract it?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1203.749,"endTime":1205.819,"body":"How much is the coke that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1203.749,"endTime":1205.819,"body":"goes into the process?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1205.819,"endTime":1208.579,"body":"How many BTUs per tonne are"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1205.819,"endTime":1208.579,"body":"required to make the steel?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1208.609,"endTime":1210.534,"body":"What's the average cost of those BTU."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1211.164,"endTime":1214.314,"body":"And I had no answer for that and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1211.164,"endTime":1214.314,"body":"he was making a point, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1214.314,"endTime":1218.214,"body":"Like Hey, I want a larger level of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1214.314,"endTime":1218.214,"body":"control and more first principle thinking"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1218.214,"endTime":1221.759,"body":"around these sorts of packages, but"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1218.214,"endTime":1221.759,"body":"that was somewhat eye-opening in the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1221.759,"endTime":1224.054,"body":"sense like, you're like, you know what?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1224.194,"endTime":1227.794,"body":"Let's get back to thinking"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1224.194,"endTime":1227.794,"body":"that way, because if we did"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1227.914,"endTime":1229.474,"body":"something good could happen."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1230.529,"endTime":1235.074,"body":"So I spent a year and a half at Tesla"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1230.529,"endTime":1235.074,"body":"running first phase of Gigafactory."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1235.074,"endTime":1236.544,"body":"I was commuting every week."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1236.544,"endTime":1239.494,"body":"My wife's like, Hey, you're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1236.544,"endTime":1239.494,"body":"gone six days a week."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1239.494,"endTime":1240.664,"body":"I have four kids at home."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1241.294,"endTime":1243.574,"body":"So I ended up over at Google"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1241.294,"endTime":1243.574,"body":"where I didn't need to travel"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1243.994,"endTime":1245.434,"body":"as much, moved down to Atlanta."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1245.434,"endTime":1247.444,"body":"I was responsible for"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1245.434,"endTime":1247.444,"body":"building a campus here."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1247.584,"endTime":1252.984,"body":"Built that campus and then moved into more"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1247.584,"endTime":1252.984,"body":"of a regional role leading the Americas."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1252.984,"endTime":1257.489,"body":"And so we ended up kind of growing"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1252.984,"endTime":1257.489,"body":"that program by about 10 X,  in the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1257.489,"endTime":1259.709,"body":"five years that I was in that role."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1260.009,"endTime":1264.089,"body":"And as we did that, we sort of blew up"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1260.009,"endTime":1264.089,"body":"our supply chain a few times because"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1264.089,"endTime":1269.804,"body":"we didn't understand the capacity that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1264.089,"endTime":1269.804,"body":"we were injecting into certain orders."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1270.224,"endTime":1274.404,"body":"We didn't understand the lack of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1270.224,"endTime":1274.404,"body":"repeatability that we had in our program."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1274.404,"endTime":1274.614,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1274.674,"endTime":1278.894,"body":"We didn't know somebody like"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1274.674,"endTime":1278.894,"body":"Bryden Wood who thought  in your"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1278.894,"endTime":1281.804,"body":"concept of Chip Thinking and I"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1278.894,"endTime":1281.804,"body":"call it repeatable packages, but"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1281.804,"endTime":1283.394,"body":"were really saying the same thing."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1283.814,"endTime":1289.364,"body":"Instead,  we were issuing the same"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1283.814,"endTime":1289.364,"body":"design intent 20 times, and then"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1289.424,"endTime":1294.614,"body":"detailing that design intent in 20"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1289.424,"endTime":1294.614,"body":"slightly different ways and ending up"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1294.614,"endTime":1298.574,"body":"with 20 slightly different projects"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1294.614,"endTime":1298.574,"body":"with 20 different supply chains."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1299.174,"endTime":1302.084,"body":"So we implemented a program"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1299.174,"endTime":1302.084,"body":"there to try to standardise"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1302.104,"endTime":1305.469,"body":"things and had some success, but"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1302.104,"endTime":1305.469,"body":"there's still challenges, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1305.469,"endTime":1306.369,"body":"When you're working."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1306.804,"endTime":1311.094,"body":"In an environment with multiple"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1306.804,"endTime":1311.094,"body":"stakeholders, multiple verticals"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1311.094,"endTime":1312.714,"body":"with sort of multiple interests."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1313.054,"endTime":1317.014,"body":"And so I ended up leaving to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1313.054,"endTime":1317.014,"body":"start Katalyst to    address that."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1317.014,"endTime":1319.654,"body":"I said, okay, this problem"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1317.014,"endTime":1319.654,"body":"exists in our industry."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1320.282,"endTime":1323.492,"body":"What's the best way to start standardising"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1320.282,"endTime":1323.492,"body":"across all these different groups."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1323.912,"endTime":1327.782,"body":"From my perspective, it was really"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1323.912,"endTime":1327.782,"body":"starting to define the information"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1328.142,"endTime":1331.892,"body":"behind that standardisation and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1328.142,"endTime":1331.892,"body":"behind those supply chains and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1331.892,"endTime":1336.662,"body":"start to enable owners to think"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1331.892,"endTime":1336.662,"body":"about projects, more like a product."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1336.962,"endTime":1339.572,"body":"And it doesn't mean we need to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1336.962,"endTime":1339.572,"body":"think about a project exactly like"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1339.572,"endTime":1341.282,"body":"a product, but more like a product."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1341.522,"endTime":1345.032,"body":"And then once we do that, we can start"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1341.522,"endTime":1345.032,"body":"to understand where things are repeatable"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1345.312,"endTime":1348.559,"body":"and where those supply chains are and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1345.312,"endTime":1348.559,"body":"obviously, you know, I think you and I"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1348.559,"endTime":1352.549,"body":"got introduced when we were doing some"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1348.559,"endTime":1352.549,"body":"of that work on the data center side."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1352.999,"endTime":1354.799,"body":"And y'all's thinking blew me away, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1354.799,"endTime":1359.609,"body":"Cuz you truly think in terms  of packages"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1354.799,"endTime":1359.609,"body":"and probably even take things further than"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1359.609,"endTime":1363.499,"body":"we do in thinking that way, but it was"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1359.609,"endTime":1363.499,"body":"cool to say, okay, there's other people"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1363.499,"endTime":1367.579,"body":"thinking this way, there's other programs"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1363.499,"endTime":1367.579,"body":"that are thinking this way and other"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1367.579,"endTime":1369.319,"body":"people have a kind of a common problem."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1369.469,"endTime":1371.289,"body":"And then you had talked"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1369.469,"endTime":1371.289,"body":"earlier  about COVID."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1371.559,"endTime":1375.309,"body":"I think COVID was probably the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1371.559,"endTime":1375.309,"body":"thing that at an industry level"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1375.389,"endTime":1379.929,"body":"really kind of blew up that level of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1375.389,"endTime":1379.929,"body":"thinking or that type of thinking."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1380.752,"endTime":1380.962,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1380.962,"endTime":1381.562,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1381.612,"endTime":1384.342,"body":"So what are the sort of barriers you're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1381.612,"endTime":1384.342,"body":"seeing to this being adopted more widely?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1384.342,"endTime":1386.382,"body":"So one of the things we've talked"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1384.342,"endTime":1386.382,"body":"about a lot of this podcast is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1386.382,"endTime":1388.872,"body":"that whilst people understand the."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1388.882,"endTime":1390.111,"body":"Or problem statement."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1390.261,"endTime":1392.871,"body":"Well, people understand a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1390.261,"endTime":1392.871,"body":"the solutions that are available."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1392.871,"endTime":1394.251,"body":"What are you seeing in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1392.871,"endTime":1394.251,"body":"terms of the blockers?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1394.431,"endTime":1397.011,"body":"Often we see it's  the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1394.431,"endTime":1397.011,"body":"contractual setup doesn't support"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1397.011,"endTime":1397.851,"body":"some of this way of working."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1397.856,"endTime":1400.851,"body":"If you change the design process,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1397.856,"endTime":1400.851,"body":"it changes the role of the designer,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1400.856,"endTime":1402.351,"body":"the contractor in the middle."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1402.361,"endTime":1406.201,"body":"So some of the things that stop, this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1402.361,"endTime":1406.201,"body":"are not technical or that we don't have"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1406.206,"endTime":1409.001,"body":"the solutions it's that the industry's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1406.206,"endTime":1409.001,"body":"not geared up to work in this way."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1409.001,"endTime":1412.251,"body":"Is that something you are seeing and how,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1409.001,"endTime":1412.251,"body":"do you sort of plan to engage with that?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1413.286,"endTime":1413.616,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1413.616,"endTime":1414.726,"body":"I mean, absolutely."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1414.756,"endTime":1415.176,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1415.236,"endTime":1418.566,"body":"You have different challenges"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1415.236,"endTime":1418.566,"body":"within the status quo."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1418.666,"endTime":1422.236,"body":"So first, like as an industry,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1418.666,"endTime":1422.236,"body":"we're used to breaking work down"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1422.926,"endTime":1425.086,"body":"around divisional standards, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1425.086,"endTime":1426.196,"body":"So this is electrical work."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1426.196,"endTime":1427.336,"body":"This is mechanical work."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1427.546,"endTime":1430.516,"body":"When we start to think in terms of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1427.546,"endTime":1430.516,"body":"products, everything sort of becomes a"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1430.516,"endTime":1433.606,"body":"multi trade package or a multi trade chip."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1433.876,"endTime":1434.176,"body":"Right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1434.176,"endTime":1437.686,"body":"So people are not always"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1434.176,"endTime":1437.686,"body":"structured to perform that way."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1438.256,"endTime":1444.496,"body":"I think at times we struggle with"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1438.256,"endTime":1444.496,"body":"repeatability to you and I we"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1444.496,"endTime":1449.737,"body":"see 10 projects and probably find"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1444.496,"endTime":1449.737,"body":"80  percent of them as repeatable"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1450.037,"endTime":1453.547,"body":"to a lot of the industry they say,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1450.037,"endTime":1453.547,"body":"listen, everything we do is bespoke."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1453.547,"endTime":1457.997,"body":"It's localised and we're both right,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1453.547,"endTime":1457.997,"body":"but it's sort of the difference"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1458.002,"endTime":1460.577,"body":"between, okay, this is a repeatable"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1458.002,"endTime":1460.577,"body":"package and then we can have multiple"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1460.582,"endTime":1462.437,"body":"configurations of that, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1462.437,"endTime":1465.017,"body":"Just like if you buy a Toyota"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1462.437,"endTime":1465.017,"body":"Camry, it doesn't mean we're all"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1465.017,"endTime":1466.667,"body":"buying the exact same Toyota Camry."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1466.717,"endTime":1470.137,"body":"There's different trims and different"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1466.717,"endTime":1470.137,"body":"features that might come along with it."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1470.407,"endTime":1475.042,"body":"I think shifting thinking towards that and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1470.407,"endTime":1475.042,"body":"shifting thinking towards the fact that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1475.042,"endTime":1478.882,"body":"everything is actually kind of repeatable,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1475.042,"endTime":1478.882,"body":"even if it's not exactly the same."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1479.212,"endTime":1486.172,"body":"And we can still have bespoke systems that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1479.212,"endTime":1486.172,"body":"come from a set of repeatable components"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1486.512,"endTime":1491.397,"body":"has been something that's a challenge"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1486.512,"endTime":1491.397,"body":"and then you also have to look at where a"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1491.397,"endTime":1494.637,"body":"lot of the gatekeepers find their value."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1495.017,"endTime":1498.287,"body":"There's an entrepreneur in the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1495.017,"endTime":1498.287,"body":"United States named Richard Barton."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1498.777,"endTime":1503.307,"body":"And so Richard Barton founded a"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1498.777,"endTime":1503.307,"body":"company called Zillow, which really"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1503.457,"endTime":1507.627,"body":"tries to bring transparency to home"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1503.457,"endTime":1507.627,"body":"values in the home selling process."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1508.197,"endTime":1510.632,"body":"He founded Expedia, that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1508.197,"endTime":1510.632,"body":"tries to do something similar"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1510.632,"endTime":1512.372,"body":"within the travel industry."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1512.702,"endTime":1515.852,"body":"He did the same thing with a site"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1512.702,"endTime":1515.852,"body":"called Glassdoor, which tries to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1515.852,"endTime":1518.192,"body":"bring transparency to salaries."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1518.462,"endTime":1523.022,"body":"So you have all these things that really"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1518.462,"endTime":1523.022,"body":"shouldn't be confidential information,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1523.292,"endTime":1527.792,"body":"but it's guarded information or gated"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1523.292,"endTime":1527.792,"body":"information and it's gated because"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1528.292,"endTime":1534.002,"body":"somebody's job or somebody's incentive"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1528.292,"endTime":1534.002,"body":"is to keep that information proprietary,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1534.002,"endTime":1535.442,"body":"even though it's not proprietary."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1535.652,"endTime":1538.562,"body":"I think a similar thing"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1535.652,"endTime":1538.562,"body":"exists in construction, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1538.567,"endTime":1542.812,"body":"Like we all want to kind of keep"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1538.567,"endTime":1542.812,"body":"our a mystique or a secret about"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1542.812,"endTime":1545.882,"body":"what we're doing, because  if it"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1542.812,"endTime":1545.882,"body":"was blown wide open, we'd have to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1545.882,"endTime":1549.782,"body":"go create value through some other"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1545.882,"endTime":1549.782,"body":"method, and so there is some of that."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1550.142,"endTime":1555.192,"body":"That said, I think more now than ever"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1550.142,"endTime":1555.192,"body":"and from my perspective, it's a factor"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1555.192,"endTime":1558.252,"body":"that nobody's really looking for work."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1558.302,"endTime":1562.982,"body":"And I don't mean that maybe as blatantly"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1558.302,"endTime":1562.982,"body":"as it sounds, but every construction"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1562.982,"endTime":1567.182,"body":"company we know in the space is working"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1562.982,"endTime":1567.182,"body":"at a hundred percent capacity or more."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1567.452,"endTime":1569.282,"body":"There is so much work out there."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1569.492,"endTime":1575.202,"body":"So it becomes less about competition"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1569.492,"endTime":1575.202,"body":"and less about we have three people"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1575.207,"endTime":1576.842,"body":"fighting over one slice of the pie."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1577.647,"endTime":1580.227,"body":"Two, we have three people"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1577.647,"endTime":1580.227,"body":"trying to figure out how we're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1580.227,"endTime":1581.907,"body":"gonna eat four slices of pie."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1582.057,"endTime":1583.887,"body":"And, and so everybody has a lot of work."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1583.887,"endTime":1588.177,"body":"So that's, I think shifted the dynamic"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1583.887,"endTime":1588.177,"body":"like a little bit more towards something"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1588.227,"endTime":1592.337,"body":"that's open to new ways and new"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1588.227,"endTime":1592.337,"body":"approaches, but there is still that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1592.337,"endTime":1595.937,"body":"status quo and old way of thinking"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1592.337,"endTime":1595.937,"body":"that we need to work around at times."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1596.057,"endTime":1597.107,"body":"Do you see something similar?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1597.701,"endTime":1600.981,"body":"You've fantastically"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1597.701,"endTime":1600.981,"body":"articulated a whole bunch of themes"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1600.981,"endTime":1602.991,"body":"that keep recurring on this podcast."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1602.996,"endTime":1605.396,"body":"Scale of the amount of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1602.996,"endTime":1605.396,"body":"infrastructure we need to build"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1605.401,"endTime":1608.056,"body":"over the next 30 years, therefore"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1605.401,"endTime":1608.056,"body":"there's tons of work to go after."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1608.871,"endTime":1610.131,"body":"It's not a question of winning work."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1610.131,"endTime":1612.411,"body":"It's a question of how are we actually"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1610.131,"endTime":1612.411,"body":"gonna do that with the existing supply"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1612.411,"endTime":1615.201,"body":"chain capacity and all the rest of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1612.411,"endTime":1615.201,"body":"it , interoperability of data and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1615.201,"endTime":1620.571,"body":"collaboration and repeatability being the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1615.201,"endTime":1620.571,"body":"thing that, you know, the devils, this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1620.571,"endTime":1623.601,"body":"industry, or bespoken as being the thing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1620.571,"endTime":1623.601,"body":"that, you know, lack of repeatability"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1623.601,"endTime":1624.561,"body":"that be devils this industry."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1624.561,"endTime":1628.184,"body":"So, yeah, it's incredible actually"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1624.561,"endTime":1628.184,"body":"that you've just nailed all the things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1628.184,"endTime":1629.714,"body":"that we keep coming up on this podcast."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1629.714,"endTime":1632.794,"body":"So it's quite reassuring for me that,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1629.714,"endTime":1632.794,"body":"you know, these are the issues that you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1632.794,"endTime":1635.554,"body":"are seeing it from a completely different"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1632.794,"endTime":1635.554,"body":"lens, but coming up with the same answers."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1635.554,"endTime":1637.444,"body":"So,  yeah, that's fantastically helpful."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1637.954,"endTime":1640.164,"body":"Well, hopefully we're"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1637.954,"endTime":1640.164,"body":"not both wrong together, right."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1640.874,"endTime":1642.044,"body":"Hopefully not!"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1642.151,"endTime":1644.911,"body":"So final question that I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1642.151,"endTime":1644.911,"body":"ask, I think almost everyone"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1644.911,"endTime":1646.081,"body":"that's been on this podcast."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1646.131,"endTime":1649.776,"body":"So given what we've talked about obviously"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1646.131,"endTime":1649.776,"body":"lots of things in flux at the moment."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1649.776,"endTime":1653.826,"body":"If you have to speculate, what do you see"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1649.776,"endTime":1653.826,"body":"the next five, 10 years looking like, what"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1653.831,"endTime":1658.099,"body":"could we achieve and what do you think we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1653.831,"endTime":1658.099,"body":"can realistically actually get done the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1658.099,"endTime":1661.099,"body":"next five or 10 years, as you say, there's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1658.099,"endTime":1661.099,"body":"so many things coming together at the same"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1661.099,"endTime":1664.312,"body":"time that if we don't change, we've got a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1661.099,"endTime":1664.312,"body":"major problem, but be interested to hear"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1664.312,"endTime":1666.272,"body":"your optimistic or pessimistic thoughts."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1666.907,"endTime":1667.867,"body":"I'll give"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1666.907,"endTime":1667.867,"body":"you a little bit of both."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1667.927,"endTime":1671.027,"body":"I think from an optimistic side,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1667.927,"endTime":1671.027,"body":"it's exactly  what you just hit on."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1671.027,"endTime":1676.767,"body":"There is so much work particularly driven"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1671.027,"endTime":1676.767,"body":"by change in the energy space, change in"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1676.767,"endTime":1682.292,"body":"the reshoring of supply chains, investment"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1676.767,"endTime":1682.292,"body":"in semiconductor and other technologies."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1682.622,"endTime":1687.542,"body":"There's just so much work that we can't"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1682.622,"endTime":1687.542,"body":"help, but think it's a force function"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1687.782,"endTime":1690.272,"body":"for transformation in the industry."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1690.642,"endTime":1696.297,"body":"Then you couple that with what we face"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1690.642,"endTime":1696.297,"body":"with regards to labour and unskilled trade"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1696.297,"endTime":1698.727,"body":"shortages, how people wanna work today."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1698.727,"endTime":1703.737,"body":"And and we think there is zero way"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1698.727,"endTime":1703.737,"body":"that that doesn't drive change."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1703.737,"endTime":1704.067,"body":"Right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1704.337,"endTime":1709.357,"body":"I think we're tracking, and this is in"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1704.337,"endTime":1709.357,"body":"the United States, something close to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1709.362,"endTime":1713.647,"body":"a hundred mega projects in our space,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1709.362,"endTime":1713.647,"body":"in the digital infrastructure space."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1713.647,"endTime":1719.282,"body":"So these are 2 billion dollar plus"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1713.647,"endTime":1719.282,"body":"projects in the energy, data center"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1719.462,"endTime":1726.032,"body":"and advanced technology spaces that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1719.462,"endTime":1726.032,"body":"are either starting in 20 22 or 20 23."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1726.032,"endTime":1730.112,"body":"5 years ago, if there were two"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1726.032,"endTime":1730.112,"body":"or three of those that would've"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1730.117,"endTime":1733.832,"body":"been probably the norm, so it's"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1730.117,"endTime":1733.832,"body":"just a massive amount of work."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1733.992,"endTime":1735.582,"body":"And so that's gonna force change."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1735.852,"endTime":1740.377,"body":"Now the pessimistic side of me"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1735.852,"endTime":1740.377,"body":"says, okay, We also have the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1740.377,"endTime":1742.597,"body":"economic side of things, right."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1742.597,"endTime":1744.157,"body":"We have raising interest rates."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1744.487,"endTime":1746.537,"body":"We have disruption in the world economy."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1746.777,"endTime":1754.492,"body":"Will that change things, or are"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1746.777,"endTime":1754.492,"body":"participants making so much money and"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1754.492,"endTime":1759.022,"body":"doing so well following the status"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1754.492,"endTime":1759.022,"body":"quo that they won't be incentive to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1759.022,"endTime":1763.487,"body":"change and so that's hard to say I"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1759.022,"endTime":1763.487,"body":"think we have to find the incentive"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1763.487,"endTime":1765.167,"body":"for everybody that drives things."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1765.437,"endTime":1771.177,"body":"So I think the spark is there, meaning"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1765.437,"endTime":1771.177,"body":"there's demand that far exceeds supply."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1772.047,"endTime":1775.647,"body":"But at the same time, we have"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1772.047,"endTime":1775.647,"body":"companies that are doing financially"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1775.647,"endTime":1778.677,"body":"better than they ever have, because"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1775.647,"endTime":1778.677,"body":"they're all running at a hundred,"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1778.677,"endTime":1782.247,"body":"110, 120% capacity without changing."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1782.607,"endTime":1786.792,"body":"So where those two disconnects"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1782.607,"endTime":1786.792,"body":"come together, I think is where the"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1786.792,"endTime":1788.442,"body":"inflection point is for the industry."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1788.742,"endTime":1791.232,"body":"And we'll just have to see how"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1788.742,"endTime":1791.232,"body":"timing lays it all out for us."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1792.732,"endTime":1793.242,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1793.242,"endTime":1795.942,"body":"And yeah, to what extent owners"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1793.242,"endTime":1795.942,"body":"drive this and going back to right"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1795.942,"endTime":1798.702,"body":"the start of our conversation,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1795.942,"endTime":1798.702,"body":"a lot of this comes from owners."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1798.702,"endTime":1803.082,"body":"We've always seen that if owners choose"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1798.702,"endTime":1803.082,"body":"to make certain decisions, that's how you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1803.082,"endTime":1804.972,"body":"incentivise the supply chain that follows."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1804.972,"endTime":1807.552,"body":"So, yeah and I think it's the big"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1804.972,"endTime":1807.552,"body":"owners that we'll start to drive this."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1808.272,"endTime":1808.872,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1808.872,"endTime":1812.082,"body":"And we're seeing owners start to"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1808.872,"endTime":1812.082,"body":"understand the cost of missing"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1812.082,"endTime":1815.502,"body":"schedule more than we ever have"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1812.082,"endTime":1815.502,"body":"and the costs are enormous, right?"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1815.502,"endTime":1819.912,"body":"We're talking double or triple digit"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1815.502,"endTime":1819.912,"body":"million dollars per month on the types of"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1819.912,"endTime":1821.412,"body":"projects that you and I are discussing."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1821.412,"endTime":1824.842,"body":"So  I think undoubtedly, as"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1821.412,"endTime":1824.842,"body":"they look at things through that"},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1824.842,"endTime":1826.472,"body":"lens that'll drive the change."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1827.872,"endTime":1828.462,"body":"Perfect."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1828.527,"endTime":1830.837,"body":"Well, thanks so much for joining us,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1828.527,"endTime":1830.837,"body":"loads, more questions I could ask,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1830.837,"endTime":1833.267,"body":"but mindful and respectful for your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1830.837,"endTime":1833.267,"body":"time, we'll we'll park it there."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1833.267,"endTime":1834.227,"body":"So thanks ever so much."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1834.227,"endTime":1835.817,"body":"That was a really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1834.227,"endTime":1835.817,"body":"interesting conversation."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1835.867,"endTime":1839.037,"body":"Yeah, as I say,  reiterated, lots of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1835.867,"endTime":1839.037,"body":"things that we've talked about previously."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1839.037,"endTime":1842.332,"body":"So, I think the number of people"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1839.037,"endTime":1842.332,"body":"that are joining the movement,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1842.337,"endTime":1843.412,"body":"understand the movement is growing."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1843.412,"endTime":1844.932,"body":"So, yeah, good to have you on board."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1845.802,"endTime":1846.372,"body":"It is growing."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1846.372,"endTime":1847.212,"body":"Thank you for having me Jaimie."},{"speaker":"Brett Rogers","startTime":1847.212,"endTime":1847.692,"body":"Take care."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1847.884,"endTime":1849.534,"body":"So thanks everyone"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1847.884,"endTime":1849.534,"body":"for listening in and joining us."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1849.564,"endTime":1852.894,"body":"Please join us again for the next"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1849.564,"endTime":1852.894,"body":"episode of Built Environment Matters."}]}