{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":9.18,"endTime":13.17,"body":"Hello, welcome to Built Environment"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":9.18,"endTime":13.17,"body":"Matters, a monthly podcast brought to"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":13.17,"endTime":17.67,"body":"you by Bryden Wood, an international"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":13.17,"endTime":17.67,"body":"company of technologists, designers,"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":17.67,"endTime":21.72,"body":"architects, engineers, and analysts"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":17.67,"endTime":21.72,"body":"working for a better built environment."},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":22.41,"endTime":26.19,"body":"Bryden Wood believe in Design"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":22.41,"endTime":26.19,"body":"to Value, to cut carbon, drive"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":26.195,"endTime":31.205,"body":"efficiency, save time, make beautiful"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":26.195,"endTime":31.205,"body":"places and build a better future."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":33.005,"endTime":35.565,"body":"Hello and welcome"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":33.005,"endTime":35.565,"body":"to this edition of Built Environment"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":35.595,"endTime":37.414,"body":"Matters, the Bryden Wood podcast."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":37.794,"endTime":38.944,"body":"My name is Jaimie Johnston."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":38.975,"endTime":42.255,"body":"I'm Head of Global Systems here"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":38.975,"endTime":42.255,"body":"and this time I'm delighted to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":42.255,"endTime":43.864,"body":"be joined by Iris Tommelein."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":44.371,"endTime":47.941,"body":"Iris is a distinguished Professor of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":44.371,"endTime":47.941,"body":"Engineering and Project Management in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":47.961,"endTime":51.996,"body":"the Civil and Environmental Engineering"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":47.961,"endTime":51.996,"body":"Department, and directs the Project"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":52.056,"endTime":55.796,"body":"Production Systems Laboratory, P2SL,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":52.056,"endTime":55.796,"body":"at the University of California,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":55.796,"endTime":57.05,"body":"Berkeley, which is where I met her."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":57.97,"endTime":61.353,"body":"She's been studying, developing, and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":57.97,"endTime":61.353,"body":"applying principles and methods of project"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":61.383,"endTime":64.943,"body":"based production management, otherwise"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":61.383,"endTime":64.943,"body":"known as lean construction, which is the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":64.953,"endTime":66.553,"body":"topic that I really want to get into."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":66.75,"endTime":70.27,"body":"Iris has got a spectacular CV, so I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":66.75,"endTime":70.27,"body":"can't talk about all of them, but she's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":70.27,"endTime":74.233,"body":"hosted conferences on lean construction,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":70.27,"endTime":74.233,"body":"she's published over 250 articles,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":74.233,"endTime":78.193,"body":"books and book chapters and has given"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":74.233,"endTime":78.193,"body":"lots of keynote lectures on this."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":78.623,"endTime":81.813,"body":"Incredibly, she graduated as a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":78.623,"endTime":81.813,"body":"civil engineer architect in Belgium."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":82.303,"endTime":85.333,"body":"She also has an MS in Construction"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":82.303,"endTime":85.333,"body":"Engineering and Management, an"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":85.413,"endTime":88.443,"body":"MS in Computer Science Artificial"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":85.413,"endTime":88.443,"body":"Intelligence, which is obviously a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":88.563,"endTime":93.023,"body":"very hot topic, and a PhD in Civil and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":88.563,"endTime":93.023,"body":"Environmental Engineering from Stanford."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":93.023,"endTime":96.873,"body":"Crucially, and one of the reasons"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":93.023,"endTime":96.873,"body":"we're very keen to talk to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":96.873,"endTime":99.733,"body":"Iris, she was a founder of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":96.873,"endTime":99.733,"body":"Lean Construction Institute."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":99.733,"endTime":104.083,"body":"in Berkeley, and in 2015, she was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":99.733,"endTime":104.083,"body":"awarded the LCI's Lean Pioneer Award."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":104.556,"endTime":108.926,"body":"She's also the recipient of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":104.556,"endTime":108.926,"body":"prestigious 2022 PPI Technical Achievement"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":108.956,"endTime":113.07,"body":"Award for Thought Leadership in the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":108.956,"endTime":113.07,"body":"area of Project Production Management"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":113.14,"endTime":117.08,"body":"and she was inducted into the National"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":113.14,"endTime":117.08,"body":"Academy of Construction in 2019."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":117.12,"endTime":118.09,"body":"So, phenomenal."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":118.188,"endTime":121.588,"body":"CV,  worldwide recognised as one"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":118.188,"endTime":121.588,"body":"of the leaders in this topic."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":121.928,"endTime":125.278,"body":"So,  firstly, to put some context"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":121.928,"endTime":125.278,"body":"around it, this idea of lean, if"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":125.278,"endTime":126.678,"body":"you can sort of explain what it is."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":126.688,"endTime":131.688,"body":"So obviously for decades people have"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":126.688,"endTime":131.688,"body":"been trying to emulate what manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":131.688,"endTime":134.978,"body":"does and obviously people leap to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":131.688,"endTime":134.978,"body":"parallels with automotive and things."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":134.988,"endTime":139.836,"body":"I think one of the most powerful"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":134.988,"endTime":139.836,"body":"elements of manufacturing is this lean"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":139.836,"endTime":143.666,"body":"approach, so perhaps you can explain"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":139.836,"endTime":143.666,"body":"what it is, what it means, and that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":143.666,"endTime":145.856,"body":"will be kind of useful grounding"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":143.666,"endTime":145.856,"body":"for the rest of the conversation."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":146.446,"endTime":148.456,"body":"I wanted to start"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":146.446,"endTime":148.456,"body":"by thanking you, Jaimie,  for"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":148.456,"endTime":150.086,"body":"inviting me to be on the podcast."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":150.086,"endTime":151.686,"body":"It's really an honour to be here."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":152.136,"endTime":155.666,"body":"As you mentioned, I've been involved in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":152.136,"endTime":155.666,"body":"lean construction for quite some time."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":155.726,"endTime":160.076,"body":"I became aware of the concept of lean"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":155.726,"endTime":160.076,"body":"in the early 1990s, I think when a lot"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":160.076,"endTime":164.726,"body":"of other people had read The Machine"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":160.076,"endTime":164.726,"body":"That Changed the World, the book"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":164.736,"endTime":169.588,"body":"by   Womack, Jones and Roos that really"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":164.736,"endTime":169.588,"body":"was a wake up call for many people in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":169.588,"endTime":173.318,"body":"manufacturing and also posed interesting"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":169.588,"endTime":173.318,"body":"questions for us in construction."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":173.838,"endTime":178.218,"body":"I quite like the definition that they"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":173.838,"endTime":178.218,"body":"have been using  for some time, which is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":178.248,"endTime":183.698,"body":"that lean is to do what the customer wants"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":178.248,"endTime":183.698,"body":"in no time and with nothing in stores."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":183.958,"endTime":187.738,"body":"It seems kind of a very"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":183.958,"endTime":187.738,"body":"desirable set of objectives."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":188.518,"endTime":191.878,"body":"But the challenge  with these three"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":188.518,"endTime":191.878,"body":"objectives is that they're really"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":191.928,"endTime":194.978,"body":"in tension with one another, and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":191.928,"endTime":194.978,"body":"it's very difficult to do all three."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":195.688,"endTime":199.939,"body":"So it was said that Taiichi Ohno from"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":195.688,"endTime":199.939,"body":"Toyota actually discovered a major"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":199.959,"endTime":204.299,"body":"insight when he came to the United"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":199.959,"endTime":204.299,"body":"States in the 1950s, discovered the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":204.309,"endTime":209.199,"body":"notion of supermarkets and saw that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":204.309,"endTime":209.199,"body":"it was wonderful that customers"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":209.199,"endTime":211.099,"body":"could get what they want in no time."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":211.199,"endTime":215.149,"body":"But he also realised that it came at"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":211.199,"endTime":215.149,"body":"a huge cost, which is to have all the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":215.149,"endTime":217.129,"body":"space that's occupied by supermarkets."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":217.579,"endTime":221.769,"body":"And so he took on the challenge"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":217.579,"endTime":221.769,"body":"basically to try to address these"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":221.769,"endTime":226.284,"body":"three challenges and understand the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":221.769,"endTime":226.284,"body":"trade offs that one has to make in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":226.284,"endTime":228.094,"body":"order to really optimise the whole."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":228.204,"endTime":231.254,"body":"I see this very much applied"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":228.204,"endTime":231.254,"body":"to the world of construction."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":231.518,"endTime":234.738,"body":"In construction, also we talk"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":231.518,"endTime":234.738,"body":"about project management."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":234.738,"endTime":238.092,"body":"You can have three things, time,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":234.738,"endTime":238.092,"body":"cost and scope, take any two."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":238.288,"endTime":241.263,"body":"And here too, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":238.288,"endTime":241.263,"body":"live in a complex world."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":241.303,"endTime":245.623,"body":"We really need to understand many"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":241.303,"endTime":245.623,"body":"objectives, some of which will conflict"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":245.623,"endTime":250.813,"body":"with one another and the challenge that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":245.623,"endTime":250.813,"body":"Lean poses is really to learn to make"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":250.873,"endTime":256.763,"body":"trade offs and to do so through scientific"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":250.873,"endTime":256.763,"body":"experimentation that Plan-Do-Can-Act"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":256.783,"endTime":261.913,"body":"cycles and more recently also, of course,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":256.783,"endTime":261.913,"body":"using increasing amounts of data that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":261.943,"endTime":264.026,"body":"can help inform our decision making."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":264.186,"endTime":268.12,"body":"That frames my understanding of lean and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":264.186,"endTime":268.12,"body":"I should add whether you call it lean"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":268.12,"endTime":270.1,"body":"or not, I'm rather agnostic about it."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":270.11,"endTime":274.38,"body":"I think the notion of scientific"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":270.11,"endTime":274.38,"body":"experimentation and continuous improvement"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":274.38,"endTime":277.75,"body":"is very appealing to me and that's"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":274.38,"endTime":277.75,"body":"what I've been pursuing in my research."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":278.7,"endTime":280.69,"body":"Yes, one of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":278.7,"endTime":280.69,"body":"things I found really interesting when"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":280.69,"endTime":284.77,"body":"we first met, so we at Bryden Wood"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":280.69,"endTime":284.77,"body":"don't use the terminology of lean."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":285.425,"endTime":288.415,"body":"We didn't necessarily think of ourselves"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":285.425,"endTime":288.415,"body":"as lean practitioners, but I think the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":288.415,"endTime":291.915,"body":"things we were trying to accomplish,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":288.415,"endTime":291.915,"body":"which is, you know, taking out non value"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":291.915,"endTime":295.625,"body":"adding activity, trying to sort of get"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":291.915,"endTime":295.625,"body":"things to be more consistent and stable."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":295.655,"endTime":297.925,"body":"I found it really interesting,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":295.655,"endTime":297.925,"body":"actually, that without using the same"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":297.925,"endTime":299.445,"body":"language, we were thinking the same way."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":299.445,"endTime":302.335,"body":"But, if you can just expand on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":299.445,"endTime":302.335,"body":"that, that it's a mindset rather"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":302.555,"endTime":303.975,"body":"than a particular technology."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":303.975,"endTime":308.215,"body":"I think certainly in the UK, people"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":303.975,"endTime":308.215,"body":"tend to launch onto specific terms."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":309.325,"endTime":312.955,"body":"The terminology, or the phraseology, or"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":309.325,"endTime":312.955,"body":"the technology, but it's not that, is it?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":312.955,"endTime":316.035,"body":"It's a mindset of how you think about"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":312.955,"endTime":316.035,"body":"these things and approach these things."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":316.615,"endTime":317.775,"body":"I 100 percent agree."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":317.785,"endTime":321.295,"body":"It's a mindset, it's a willingness to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":317.785,"endTime":321.295,"body":"question, you know, what the current"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":321.305,"endTime":325.385,"body":"state is and it's a willingness"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":321.305,"endTime":325.385,"body":"and an ability to envision what"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":325.385,"endTime":326.825,"body":"a better future state might be."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":326.835,"endTime":332.705,"body":"And then it provides, you know, tools"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":326.835,"endTime":332.705,"body":"and methods and technologies to get us"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":332.705,"endTime":334.395,"body":"from the current state to a better state."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":335.835,"endTime":337.57,"body":"Yeah, obviously"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":335.835,"endTime":337.57,"body":"you're a leading academic in this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":337.57,"endTime":341.07,"body":"space, but from my understanding, your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":337.57,"endTime":341.07,"body":"starting point was very practical."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":341.07,"endTime":343.57,"body":"It was looking at site layouts"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":341.07,"endTime":343.57,"body":"and how people arrange sites."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":343.82,"endTime":344.07,"body":"Is that true?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":344.07,"endTime":347.56,"body":"And sort of looking at how you organise"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":344.07,"endTime":347.56,"body":"a site, because obviously people design"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":347.57,"endTime":350.51,"body":"the building, they design the end"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":347.57,"endTime":350.51,"body":"state, they don't necessarily put as"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":350.51,"endTime":352.58,"body":"much effort into the temporary states."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":353.38,"endTime":356.0,"body":"And so, ad hoc things happen on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":353.38,"endTime":356.0,"body":"site and that's one of the blockers."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":356.05,"endTime":358.33,"body":"Is that where you started looking at"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":356.05,"endTime":358.33,"body":"some of the practical implications?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":358.878,"endTime":359.548,"body":"It is indeed."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":359.548,"endTime":362.778,"body":"My advisor, Ray Levitt at Stanford,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":359.548,"endTime":362.778,"body":"you know, suggested that I look"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":362.778,"endTime":367.808,"body":"at site layout and I date myself a"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":362.778,"endTime":367.808,"body":"little bit, this was in the mid 1980s"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":367.838,"endTime":369.378,"body":"that I started on that research."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":369.673,"endTime":372.723,"body":"He suggested that I look at site"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":369.673,"endTime":372.723,"body":"layout, and I think a reason why"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":372.723,"endTime":376.553,"body":"he identified it is because it was"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":372.723,"endTime":376.553,"body":"a problem that had yet not been"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":376.893,"endTime":380.043,"body":"tackled, and mathematically speaking,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":376.893,"endTime":380.043,"body":"it's also a very difficult problem."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":380.043,"endTime":383.533,"body":"It's figuring out how much space you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":380.043,"endTime":383.533,"body":"need and where the space goes, so"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":383.533,"endTime":387.433,"body":"it's a layout problem, but there's a"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":383.533,"endTime":387.433,"body":"dynamic aspect to it because things"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":387.433,"endTime":390.983,"body":"change on site the whole time, and that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":387.433,"endTime":390.983,"body":"makes it very difficult to address."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":390.983,"endTime":395.003,"body":"But what he recognised is that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":390.983,"endTime":395.003,"body":"this problem had not really been"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":395.003,"endTime":399.483,"body":"addressed, in fact, by academics,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":395.003,"endTime":399.483,"body":"and that we kind of deferred to the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":399.483,"endTime":403.603,"body":"world of practice to deal with the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":399.483,"endTime":403.603,"body":"problem in the best way they could."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":403.603,"endTime":406.133,"body":"And that made it an interesting"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":403.603,"endTime":406.133,"body":"topic, of course, to study."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":406.976,"endTime":409.126,"body":"Yeah, I mean, it's not"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":406.976,"endTime":409.126,"body":"dealt with academically, it's probably"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":409.126,"endTime":412.416,"body":"not even dealt with by professionals,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":409.126,"endTime":412.416,"body":"I suspect, when you were looking at it,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":412.416,"endTime":416.456,"body":"it was very much,  as you say, it was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":412.416,"endTime":416.456,"body":"the site practitioners, it was people"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":416.456,"endTime":419.686,"body":"dumping materials where they could"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":416.456,"endTime":419.686,"body":"possibly find space and things, and I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":419.716,"endTime":422.446,"body":"think that's such a rich area, they go,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":419.716,"endTime":422.446,"body":"you've designed the building, but if"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":422.466,"endTime":425.816,"body":"you haven't enabled the conditions on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":422.466,"endTime":425.816,"body":"site that will allow you to do your best"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":425.816,"endTime":429.096,"body":"work, and see, that's a huge problem"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":425.816,"endTime":429.096,"body":"that people are running around trying to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":429.096,"endTime":432.896,"body":"find materials, information, resources,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":429.096,"endTime":432.896,"body":"and things, so looking at that, I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":432.916,"endTime":435.946,"body":"obviously now people do 4D planning, they"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":432.916,"endTime":435.946,"body":"probably think some more, but I guess"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":435.976,"endTime":439.116,"body":"that was a completely new frontier, was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":435.976,"endTime":439.116,"body":"it, when you started looking at this?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":439.426,"endTime":440.496,"body":"It was very new, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":440.496,"endTime":442.126,"body":"So we barely had computers."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":442.126,"endTime":445.266,"body":"The first desktop computers"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":442.126,"endTime":445.266,"body":"came about in 1984."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":445.446,"endTime":449.716,"body":"I remember the excitement of having"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":445.446,"endTime":449.716,"body":"a Macintosh computer and being able"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":449.716,"endTime":451.346,"body":"to walk around with it on campus."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":451.786,"endTime":455.676,"body":"So computers, of course, were very"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":451.786,"endTime":455.676,"body":"limited in their capabilities compared"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":455.676,"endTime":460.716,"body":"to the capabilities that we have today,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":455.676,"endTime":460.716,"body":"which are absolutely fabulous  so the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":460.736,"endTime":465.766,"body":"ability to collect data and  to actually"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":460.736,"endTime":465.766,"body":"know on a much broader scale, what is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":465.766,"endTime":468.256,"body":"going on where and who is involved."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":468.526,"endTime":471.376,"body":"That has really opened up"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":468.526,"endTime":471.376,"body":"tremendous opportunities for us to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":471.381,"endTime":473.056,"body":"rethink how we do our practices."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":473.166,"endTime":478.316,"body":"At the time the world was very small in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":473.166,"endTime":478.316,"body":"a way and very fragmented, very local."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":478.961,"endTime":483.191,"body":"So when I started to look at layout"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":478.961,"endTime":483.191,"body":"problems, I soon realised that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":483.561,"endTime":487.521,"body":"the challenge of layout doesn't"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":483.561,"endTime":487.521,"body":"exist in and of its own that really"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":487.581,"endTime":488.961,"body":"It's a confluence of two things."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":488.961,"endTime":493.391,"body":"One is to have construction schedules"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":488.961,"endTime":493.391,"body":"where you specify what the demand is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":493.391,"endTime":498.491,"body":"for your product and then the other part"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":493.391,"endTime":498.491,"body":"is to have supply chain schedules that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":498.491,"endTime":504.726,"body":"can deliver what the construction site"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":498.491,"endTime":504.726,"body":"needs and what I realised at the time is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":504.726,"endTime":509.516,"body":"that site layout is kind of the buffer"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":504.726,"endTime":509.516,"body":"in the middle that side, that tries to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":509.696,"endTime":511.916,"body":"attenuate two sources of variability."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":511.926,"endTime":515.996,"body":"One is in our construction schedules, it's"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":511.926,"endTime":515.996,"body":"very hard to be reliable in execution."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":515.996,"endTime":517.966,"body":"There's a lot of variability"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":515.996,"endTime":517.966,"body":"for many reasons."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":518.406,"endTime":521.456,"body":"And likewise in the supply system,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":518.406,"endTime":521.456,"body":"there was a lot of variability"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":521.716,"endTime":523.186,"body":"again for many different reasons."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":523.286,"endTime":526.376,"body":"And so if you are  this hinge"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":523.286,"endTime":526.376,"body":"point, the site, where everything"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":526.376,"endTime":527.366,"body":"needs to come together."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":527.366,"endTime":531.096,"body":"Given the situation we were in, we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":527.366,"endTime":531.096,"body":"needed to have huge buffers we needed"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":531.096,"endTime":534.476,"body":"to really shield ourselves from all"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":531.096,"endTime":534.476,"body":"that variability if we wanted to have"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":534.526,"endTime":538.166,"body":"any form of reliable execution, and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":534.526,"endTime":538.166,"body":"that was very difficult to achieve."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":539.286,"endTime":541.646,"body":"Yeah, and that's also"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":539.286,"endTime":541.646,"body":"what we've often found, that you try"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":541.646,"endTime":544.886,"body":"and fix one problem and realise that's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":541.646,"endTime":544.886,"body":"not the problem, it's the consequence"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":544.886,"endTime":548.636,"body":"of another problem, and then the picture"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":544.886,"endTime":548.636,"body":"gets broader and you start opening up"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":548.646,"endTime":551.05,"body":"the problem going, 'Oh, actually, we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":548.646,"endTime":551.05,"body":"tackling the wrong things,'  so you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":551.05,"endTime":554.258,"body":"then started moving into the materials"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":551.05,"endTime":554.258,"body":"management, supply chain management."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":554.448,"endTime":557.598,"body":"If you can elaborate on that point"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":554.448,"endTime":557.598,"body":"about variability, it's one of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":557.638,"endTime":560.568,"body":"the, I think, dawning recognitions."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":560.568,"endTime":562.428,"body":"Well, it's probably been known for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":560.568,"endTime":562.428,"body":"a long time, but I think people"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":562.428,"endTime":565.538,"body":"are really grappling with this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":562.428,"endTime":565.538,"body":"lack of standardisation, lack of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":565.918,"endTime":569.918,"body":"repeatability, the fact that everything"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":565.918,"endTime":569.918,"body":"is a prototype makes it almost"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":569.918,"endTime":573.718,"body":"impossible to apply some of this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":569.918,"endTime":573.718,"body":"thinking and some of these techniques."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":573.728,"endTime":574.665,"body":"Is that a fair  comment?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":574.675,"endTime":576.385,"body":"Yes, yes,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":574.675,"endTime":576.385,"body":"no, I 100 percent agree."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":576.585,"endTime":580.375,"body":"Everything is a prototype and it's"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":576.585,"endTime":580.375,"body":"wonderful to prototype, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":580.385,"endTime":584.275,"body":"It's wonderful  to apply human"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":580.385,"endTime":584.275,"body":"ingenuity to invent new things."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":584.705,"endTime":587.235,"body":"So, I certainly am in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":584.705,"endTime":587.235,"body":"favour of prototyping."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":587.46,"endTime":591.11,"body":"The challenge is of course that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":587.46,"endTime":591.11,"body":"inventing new things, better"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":591.11,"endTime":594.24,"body":"things is only one of these many"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":591.11,"endTime":594.24,"body":"objectives that we need to achieve."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":594.68,"endTime":597.58,"body":"And there are other objectives in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":594.68,"endTime":597.58,"body":"terms of you know, doing what the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":597.58,"endTime":602.06,"body":"customer wants, for example, with"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":597.58,"endTime":602.06,"body":"you know, growing world population we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":602.06,"endTime":604.805,"body":"need to have, more housing for people."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":605.275,"endTime":608.825,"body":"We need to have the finances to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":605.275,"endTime":608.825,"body":"be able to build these houses."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":608.825,"endTime":609.875,"body":"We need to have the space."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":609.875,"endTime":611.965,"body":"We want the houses to be sustainable."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":612.365,"endTime":614.585,"body":"There's many different"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":612.365,"endTime":614.585,"body":"objectives to be achieved."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":614.695,"endTime":618.489,"body":"So, you know, variability crops"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":614.695,"endTime":618.489,"body":"up in many places and entropy will"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":618.515,"endTime":622.375,"body":"increase if you don't pay attention"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":618.515,"endTime":622.375,"body":"to what's happening around you."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":622.375,"endTime":626.675,"body":"And it's all too easy to introduce"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":622.375,"endTime":626.675,"body":"new things and then complain about the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":626.675,"endTime":628.645,"body":"fact that our world is too complex."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":628.925,"endTime":633.745,"body":"One of the expressions I try to convey"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":628.925,"endTime":633.745,"body":"to my students, and I think it's a quite"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":633.855,"endTime":637.175,"body":"pertinent characterisation of the state"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":633.855,"endTime":637.175,"body":"of the world is that everybody today is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":637.175,"endTime":642.025,"body":"complaining about how complex our world"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":637.175,"endTime":642.025,"body":"is, but that complexity of course is."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":642.274,"endTime":646.584,"body":"the consequence of a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":642.274,"endTime":646.584,"body":"variability that we introduce ourselves."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":646.764,"endTime":649.834,"body":"So I call it self inflicted complexity."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":650.374,"endTime":653.964,"body":"And that I think in and by itself"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":650.374,"endTime":653.964,"body":"is a useful term because once we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":653.964,"endTime":657.234,"body":"realise it's self inflicted, it"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":653.964,"endTime":657.234,"body":"gives us a way to perhaps begin"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":657.264,"endTime":658.614,"body":"to think about how to control it."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":659.034,"endTime":662.014,"body":"And this is where the world of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":659.034,"endTime":662.014,"body":"variability, of course can be"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":662.014,"endTime":666.104,"body":"harnessed through standardisation,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":662.014,"endTime":666.104,"body":"interchangeable parts, modularisation,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":666.124,"endTime":668.711,"body":"and all  these wonderful things that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":666.124,"endTime":668.711,"body":"Bryden Wood  and and others have"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":668.711,"endTime":671.006,"body":"been doing such  pioneering work on."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":671.946,"endTime":673.766,"body":"Yeah, we've obviously"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":671.946,"endTime":673.766,"body":"been looking at this for a long time"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":673.766,"endTime":676.713,"body":"now and trying to simplify construction."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":676.713,"endTime":681.103,"body":"There's a real debate in the UK at the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":676.713,"endTime":681.103,"body":"moment about the potential benefits"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":681.103,"endTime":684.739,"body":"of standardisation and what it would"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":681.103,"endTime":684.739,"body":"unlock versus the the way our business"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":684.739,"endTime":689.021,"body":"models work, like every engineer"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":684.739,"endTime":689.021,"body":"wants to add value by being creative"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":689.021,"endTime":690.201,"body":"and doing an interesting thing."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":690.591,"endTime":693.921,"body":"We've always had this sort of thing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":690.591,"endTime":693.921,"body":"of, you know, is that level of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":694.381,"endTime":695.841,"body":"bespokeness properly adding value?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":695.861,"endTime":697.441,"body":"And I think it's quite right,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":695.861,"endTime":697.441,"body":"you're talking about what's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":697.441,"endTime":698.441,"body":"the value to the customer."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":698.471,"endTime":701.641,"body":"Is the level of variability between,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":698.471,"endTime":701.641,"body":"you know, different schools, different"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":701.831,"endTime":705.13,"body":"healthcare wards and those things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":701.831,"endTime":705.13,"body":"actually sufficiently adding value?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":705.13,"endTime":710.115,"body":"And I think there's a real fear"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":705.13,"endTime":710.115,"body":"that standardisation  will result"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":710.115,"endTime":713.715,"body":"in lack of good quality design,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":710.115,"endTime":713.715,"body":"lack of decent architecture."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":714.125,"endTime":715.715,"body":"I actually think it's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":714.125,"endTime":715.715,"body":"the other way around."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":715.725,"endTime":719.185,"body":"We would say that standardisation"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":715.725,"endTime":719.185,"body":"allows you to put tons more"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":719.185,"endTime":721.325,"body":"effort into the design of a thing."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":721.325,"endTime":725.16,"body":"If you're going to repeat it, you'll"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":721.325,"endTime":725.16,"body":"spend loads and loads of time optimising"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":725.16,"endTime":728.44,"body":"the design, then you repeat it and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":725.16,"endTime":728.44,"body":"you magnify the scale, the benefit,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":728.47,"endTime":732.3,"body":"but that's a real conversation we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":728.47,"endTime":732.3,"body":"haven't had or resolved yet in the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":732.3,"endTime":735.4,"body":"UK, but everything feels like it's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":732.3,"endTime":735.4,"body":"telling us exactly what you're saying."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":735.4,"endTime":738.42,"body":"Simplify the design, get into"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":735.4,"endTime":738.42,"body":"repeatability, get into commonality,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":738.43,"endTime":742.066,"body":"leverage, you know, improvements in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":738.43,"endTime":742.066,"body":"processes, how you start to unlock things."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":742.586,"endTime":745.706,"body":"And this gets back"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":742.586,"endTime":745.706,"body":"to changing people's mindsets, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":745.706,"endTime":747.386,"body":"It's really all in the mind, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":747.406,"endTime":751.046,"body":"Do people really appreciate how much"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":747.406,"endTime":751.046,"body":"value there is for them with having"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":751.046,"endTime":753.676,"body":"every building being a bespoke building?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":754.086,"endTime":757.606,"body":"Or, can they appreciate that through"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":754.086,"endTime":757.606,"body":"standardisation, you may actually have"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":757.606,"endTime":759.286,"body":"opportunities to be  more creative?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":759.761,"endTime":764.441,"body":"I think the apparel industry is a"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":759.761,"endTime":764.441,"body":"beautiful example where obviously clothing"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":764.441,"endTime":768.471,"body":"sizes have been highly standardised and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":764.441,"endTime":768.471,"body":"so it makes it very easy for us to go to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":768.471,"endTime":772.561,"body":"an online store and pick whatever item"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":768.471,"endTime":772.561,"body":"we want and know exactly that what we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":772.561,"endTime":776.331,"body":"buy is going to fit, you know, plus or"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":772.561,"endTime":776.331,"body":"minus, right, a little bit of variation,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":776.541,"endTime":781.231,"body":"but it gives us a huge opportunity for"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":776.541,"endTime":781.231,"body":"people to design and be creative in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":781.231,"endTime":785.831,"body":"the production of apparel and reach"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":781.231,"endTime":785.831,"body":"the customers and satisfy the customers"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":786.251,"endTime":787.951,"body":"wants and wishes  in many different ways."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":787.961,"endTime":792.211,"body":"So it's kind of this notion, I guess,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":787.961,"endTime":792.211,"body":"that, you know, mass customisation can"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":792.211,"endTime":796.011,"body":"really help us with,  standardisation"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":792.211,"endTime":796.011,"body":"being an important part of that."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":796.356,"endTime":798.176,"body":"Yeah, we haven't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":796.356,"endTime":798.176,"body":"reached mass customisation."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":798.192,"endTime":800.712,"body":"There's obviously mass personalisation,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":798.192,"endTime":800.712,"body":"you can order yourself a very"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":800.712,"endTime":804.222,"body":"specific sneaker that you designed"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":800.712,"endTime":804.222,"body":"yourself because it uses a completely"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":804.222,"endTime":807.132,"body":"standard process, so yeah, it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":804.222,"endTime":807.132,"body":"feels like it's like an hourglass."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":807.172,"endTime":810.272,"body":"That's the standardisation pinch"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":807.172,"endTime":810.272,"body":"point to unlock all these other"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":810.272,"endTime":813.432,"body":"things, which will get us back to mass"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":810.272,"endTime":813.432,"body":"customisation and mass personalisation."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":813.452,"endTime":816.642,"body":"But yeah, it feels like we're on the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":813.452,"endTime":816.642,"body":"precipice of something, but everyone's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":816.642,"endTime":818.216,"body":"slightly afraid  to make  the jump in."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":818.656,"endTime":822.166,"body":"I think the other thing that I was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":818.656,"endTime":822.166,"body":"interested in your work, it's certainly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":822.166,"endTime":824.486,"body":"something we saw in the work on the Forge."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":824.586,"endTime":828.466,"body":"So for instance, we designed the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":824.586,"endTime":828.466,"body":"superstructure to enable the following"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":828.466,"endTime":830.386,"body":"packages to be more productive."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":830.529,"endTime":833.839,"body":"And that's quite alien because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":830.529,"endTime":833.839,"body":"normal trades are doing the thing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":833.839,"endTime":836.149,"body":"that they do well to leave site."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":836.159,"endTime":838.879,"body":"They're not normally trying to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":836.159,"endTime":838.879,"body":"benefit the people downstream."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":838.879,"endTime":842.779,"body":"But again, we didn't use that terminology,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":838.879,"endTime":842.779,"body":"but I think you talk quite a lot"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":842.779,"endTime":846.139,"body":"around this sort of holistic idea and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":842.779,"endTime":846.139,"body":"understanding your place in the system."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":846.139,"endTime":848.816,"body":"So perhaps you can  explain some"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":846.139,"endTime":848.816,"body":"of those things about the holistic"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":848.956,"endTime":851.736,"body":"nature of this thinking rather"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":848.956,"endTime":851.736,"body":"than individual trades and tasks."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":852.306,"endTime":855.516,"body":"Yeah, as you said, if"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":852.306,"endTime":855.516,"body":"everybody working in a sequential order"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":855.556,"endTime":859.566,"body":"for that matter optimises the system from"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":855.556,"endTime":859.566,"body":"their own perspective, then obviously"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":859.616,"endTime":864.246,"body":"you can't go very far because what's got"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":859.616,"endTime":864.246,"body":"optimised up front very much constrains"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":864.246,"endTime":868.596,"body":"what the next person can do and so they"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":864.246,"endTime":868.596,"body":"can't really deliver the best that they"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":868.596,"endTime":870.946,"body":"might see in the project delivery system."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":871.376,"endTime":875.021,"body":"So, I've been a very strong advocate"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":871.376,"endTime":875.021,"body":"of what's called set based design and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":875.021,"endTime":878.821,"body":"Integrated Project Delivery, trying"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":875.021,"endTime":878.821,"body":"to bring together different people"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":878.851,"endTime":883.181,"body":"to share ideas and to explore search"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":878.851,"endTime":883.181,"body":"pages together so that they can find"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":883.181,"endTime":887.027,"body":"these overlaps how systems can go"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":883.181,"endTime":887.027,"body":"together, because everybody looks at"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":887.027,"endTime":890.657,"body":"the world with their own optimisation"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":887.027,"endTime":890.657,"body":"function, and it's clear that not"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":890.827,"endTime":893.547,"body":"everybody can have the optimal solution."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":894.027,"endTime":896.837,"body":"The parts won't go together if"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":894.027,"endTime":896.837,"body":"everybody has the optimal solution."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":896.837,"endTime":901.657,"body":"So some collaboration and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":896.837,"endTime":901.657,"body":"integration is absolutely necessary."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":901.677,"endTime":905.347,"body":"And what we find then of course is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":901.677,"endTime":905.347,"body":"that the early work really needs to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":905.347,"endTime":908.473,"body":"enable, as you mentioned, needs to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":905.347,"endTime":908.473,"body":"enable what's going to come next."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":908.473,"endTime":913.903,"body":"And there's opportunities of course"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":908.473,"endTime":913.903,"body":"to do some major restructuring on how"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":913.913,"endTime":919.343,"body":"work is done because some information"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":913.913,"endTime":919.343,"body":"needs to be available early because of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":919.363,"endTime":924.233,"body":"the way our current supply chains are"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":919.363,"endTime":924.233,"body":"working and other information can be"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":924.813,"endTime":926.723,"body":"postponed until later points in time."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":927.463,"endTime":932.893,"body":"The options that we have in terms of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":927.463,"endTime":932.893,"body":"designing things may be very rich and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":932.893,"endTime":937.033,"body":"broad, but then in terms of fabricating"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":932.893,"endTime":937.033,"body":"things we may find that there are many"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":937.033,"endTime":942.763,"body":"fewer solutions and so understanding"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":937.033,"endTime":942.763,"body":"the world around the project delivery"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":942.763,"endTime":946.113,"body":"system is really important because"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":942.763,"endTime":946.113,"body":"it's  these supply chains that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":946.113,"endTime":948.133,"body":"will ultimately feed the project."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":948.133,"endTime":952.377,"body":"And so the broader you can reach  in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":948.133,"endTime":952.377,"body":"bringing people together  and developing"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":952.377,"endTime":955.667,"body":"shared understanding, whether it's"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":952.377,"endTime":955.667,"body":"through direct conversation or through"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":955.667,"endTime":960.311,"body":"standard interfaces  and agreed"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":955.667,"endTime":960.311,"body":"connection points whatever you can do"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":960.311,"endTime":964.235,"body":"in that regard, you have, of course, an"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":960.311,"endTime":964.235,"body":"opportunity to better optimise the whole."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":965.032,"endTime":966.832,"body":"Yes, you touched"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":965.032,"endTime":966.832,"body":"on Integrated Project Delivery."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":966.942,"endTime":970.635,"body":"Are there ways of procuring things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":966.942,"endTime":970.635,"body":"that you think are best aligned"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":970.645,"endTime":972.511,"body":"with the work you've been doing?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":972.511,"endTime":975.181,"body":"I think one of the blockers here is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":972.511,"endTime":975.181,"body":"that the forms of contract and way"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":975.181,"endTime":979.226,"body":"we procure things kind of gets in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":975.181,"endTime":979.226,"body":"the way  it forces certain behaviours"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":980.516,"endTime":982.049,"body":"even before the project started."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":982.049,"endTime":985.679,"body":"And I think it's one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":982.049,"endTime":985.679,"body":"I'm really interested about is that, as"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":985.679,"endTime":989.189,"body":"we talked about earlier, the solutions"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":985.679,"endTime":989.189,"body":"to these things aren't technical now."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":989.419,"endTime":990.95,"body":"It's the surrounding ecosystem."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":990.95,"endTime":995.15,"body":"So have you got thoughts on procurement"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":990.95,"endTime":995.15,"body":"or ways of organising projects that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":995.15,"endTime":997.9,"body":"facilitate a lot of the outputs"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":995.15,"endTime":997.9,"body":"that would be, I think, fascinating"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":997.92,"endTime":1000.48,"body":"because it's a, it's a topic we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":997.92,"endTime":1000.48,"body":"need to get into next, I think."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1000.75,"endTime":1002.97,"body":"Yeah, so,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1000.75,"endTime":1002.97,"body":"a little bit of history."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1003.12,"endTime":1005.97,"body":"I've been very fortunate to work"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1003.12,"endTime":1005.97,"body":"here in the Bay Area because we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1005.98,"endTime":1010.45,"body":"have many forward looking designers"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1005.98,"endTime":1010.45,"body":"and builders and owners who really"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1010.46,"endTime":1014.82,"body":"want to, you know, develop the next"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1010.46,"endTime":1014.82,"body":"generation of sophisticated buildings."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1014.82,"endTime":1017.26,"body":"I mean, we're close to Silicon"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1014.82,"endTime":1017.26,"body":"Valley, there's a lot of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1017.29,"endTime":1018.96,"body":"biotech facilities, obviously."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1019.48,"endTime":1024.03,"body":"The owners of these facilities have very"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1019.48,"endTime":1024.03,"body":"high demands on, on what the facilities"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1024.03,"endTime":1027.05,"body":"need to deliver and so they're pushing"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1024.03,"endTime":1027.05,"body":"the industry forward and the industry"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1027.05,"endTime":1031.64,"body":"also has been very creative in addressing"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1027.05,"endTime":1031.64,"body":"needs so that we can move on and advance"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1031.64,"endTime":1037.228,"body":"from a cleanroom at very dusty situations"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1031.64,"endTime":1037.228,"body":"to a type one cleanroom or even better."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1037.572,"endTime":1041.913,"body":"P2SL my research lab, the Project"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1037.572,"endTime":1041.913,"body":"Production Systems Lab was founded in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1041.913,"endTime":1047.109,"body":"2005,  Glenn Ballard and I were at the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1041.913,"endTime":1047.109,"body":"time fortunate to work with healthcare"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1047.109,"endTime":1051.509,"body":"providers, specifically Sutter Health"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1047.109,"endTime":1051.509,"body":"that wanted to become the owner of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1051.509,"endTime":1056.599,"body":"choice to upgrade their facilities to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1051.509,"endTime":1056.599,"body":"meet more stringent California building"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1056.599,"endTime":1062.829,"body":"requirements and at the time the state of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1056.599,"endTime":1062.829,"body":"California had developed a new permitting"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1062.829,"endTime":1066.699,"body":"agency called the Office of Statewide"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1062.829,"endTime":1066.699,"body":"Health Planning and Development and the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1066.699,"endTime":1072.759,"body":"mandate of OSHPD was to make sure that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1066.699,"endTime":1072.759,"body":"every new facility, specifically every"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1073.079,"endTime":1077.839,"body":"acute care facility, would remain not"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1073.079,"endTime":1077.839,"body":"only standing after a major earthquake,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1077.839,"endTime":1079.459,"body":"but would remain fully operational."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1080.354,"endTime":1083.498,"body":"It left the whole industry up"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1080.354,"endTime":1083.498,"body":"in arms as to how do we do that."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1084.048,"endTime":1088.228,"body":"And OSHPD itself had challenges"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1084.048,"endTime":1088.228,"body":"in reviewing design drawings and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1088.228,"endTime":1093.178,"body":"specifications to determine whether the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1088.228,"endTime":1093.178,"body":"new designs would indeed be up to par."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1093.788,"endTime":1098.168,"body":"The consequence of these permitting"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1093.788,"endTime":1098.168,"body":"requirements was that OSHPD became"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1098.168,"endTime":1099.688,"body":"a major bottleneck in the system."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1099.868,"endTime":1103.918,"body":"It took them a long time to review the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1099.868,"endTime":1103.918,"body":"thousands of drawings that were given"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1103.918,"endTime":1108.918,"body":"to them for any one project and the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1103.918,"endTime":1108.918,"body":"response of the industry at the time was"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1108.958,"endTime":1114.218,"body":"that if OSHPD takes so long, let's try"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1108.958,"endTime":1114.218,"body":"to submit our drawings sooner so that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1114.758,"endTime":1116.368,"body":"hopefully we will get our permit sooner."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1116.928,"endTime":1120.728,"body":"But what happened in that process is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1116.928,"endTime":1120.728,"body":"that as people were submitting drawings"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1120.728,"endTime":1125.413,"body":"sooner the drawings were increasingly"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1120.728,"endTime":1125.413,"body":"incomplete, and so OSHPD took more"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1125.413,"endTime":1129.707,"body":"time to review, and OSHPD sent the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1125.413,"endTime":1129.707,"body":"drawings back a couple of times for"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1129.726,"endTime":1133.757,"body":"redoing and updating and resubmitting,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1129.726,"endTime":1133.757,"body":"and so the industry was really in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1133.757,"endTime":1136.159,"body":"this downward spiral of   permitting."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1136.159,"endTime":1143.819,"body":"So we invited OSHPD and the larger"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1136.159,"endTime":1143.819,"body":"players in our industry to come develop"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1143.829,"endTime":1147.869,"body":"a value stream map to map out what"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1143.829,"endTime":1147.869,"body":"it would take to deliver a 100 bed"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1147.879,"endTime":1152.166,"body":"hospital, and not just to produce the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1147.879,"endTime":1152.166,"body":"drawings for construction of the 100"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1152.166,"endTime":1156.766,"body":"bed hospital, but actually to look at"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1152.166,"endTime":1156.766,"body":"the real customer, which was OSHPD, to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1156.766,"endTime":1161.732,"body":"develop drawings and specifications that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1156.766,"endTime":1161.732,"body":"OSHPD would easily be able to review"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1161.752,"endTime":1165.932,"body":"and approve and that really brought our"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1161.752,"endTime":1165.932,"body":"industry together to think about the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1165.932,"endTime":1171.882,"body":"bigger problems of how do we really work"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1165.932,"endTime":1171.882,"body":"together in a more integrated fashion?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1172.119,"endTime":1177.328,"body":"We were also very fortunate at the time"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1172.119,"endTime":1177.328,"body":"Sutter Health had a brilliant legal"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1177.338,"endTime":1181.598,"body":"counsel, Will Lichtig, who I think you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1177.338,"endTime":1181.598,"body":"interviewed who also took on the challenge"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1181.598,"endTime":1188.003,"body":"of questioning the contracts that we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1181.598,"endTime":1188.003,"body":"were using at the time, and he realised"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1188.023,"endTime":1192.803,"body":"that the contracts in place  were not"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1188.023,"endTime":1192.803,"body":"really suitable for this Integrated"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1192.803,"endTime":1197.403,"body":"Project Delivery  and Will developed"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1192.803,"endTime":1197.403,"body":"his own integrated form of agreement"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1197.433,"endTime":1202.243,"body":"contract to bring people together in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1197.433,"endTime":1202.243,"body":"a shared risk and reward situation."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1202.243,"endTime":1207.618,"body":"And that really propelled the thinking"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1202.243,"endTime":1207.618,"body":"around target value delivery in our"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1207.618,"endTime":1211.738,"body":"industry and really spurred a lot of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1207.618,"endTime":1211.738,"body":"people to think more about relational"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1211.738,"endTime":1216.798,"body":"contracting and the project delivery"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1211.738,"endTime":1216.798,"body":"process in contrast to very competitive"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1216.848,"endTime":1220.058,"body":"design bid build type projects"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1216.848,"endTime":1220.058,"body":"where there's really very little"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1220.058,"endTime":1221.648,"body":"incentive for people to collaborate."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1222.021,"endTime":1224.881,"body":"So that, I didn't know"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1222.021,"endTime":1224.881,"body":"that actually, that's a phenomenal story."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1225.051,"endTime":1229.328,"body":"If you swapped out some of the names"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1225.051,"endTime":1229.328,"body":"for,  GlaxoSmithKline or Circle Health."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1229.348,"endTime":1232.618,"body":"I would say we went through a very similar"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1229.348,"endTime":1232.618,"body":"journey with some of our big customers."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1232.618,"endTime":1235.388,"body":"It was always the customers"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1232.618,"endTime":1235.388,"body":"that, are trying to get the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1235.388,"endTime":1236.778,"body":"outcome of the built asset."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1236.788,"endTime":1238.978,"body":"You know, the building is a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1236.788,"endTime":1238.978,"body":"purpose to do it, to achieve"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1238.978,"endTime":1240.328,"body":"some, some other big outcome."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1240.788,"endTime":1243.528,"body":"Yeah, we've always had that, that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1240.788,"endTime":1243.528,"body":"interaction actually, it's customers"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1243.528,"endTime":1244.828,"body":"coming and saying, look, what can we do?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1244.828,"endTime":1247.641,"body":"How do we join, the thing rather"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1244.828,"endTime":1247.641,"body":"than contract and throw the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1247.641,"endTime":1248.531,"body":"risk over the wall and things."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1248.541,"endTime":1251.989,"body":"So, yeah, that's a phenomenal, I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1248.541,"endTime":1251.989,"body":"think, validation is something we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1251.999,"endTime":1254.589,"body":"probably learned a few times, but"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1251.999,"endTime":1254.589,"body":"we've kept saying to people that no"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1254.639,"endTime":1256.359,"body":"party can do this unilaterally, so."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1256.969,"endTime":1257.129,"body":"Exactly."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1257.879,"endTime":1258.479,"body":"That's very interesting."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1258.609,"endTime":1261.639,"body":"I think your colleague Todd"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1258.609,"endTime":1261.639,"body":"Zabel le we found a quote when"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1261.639,"endTime":1263.269,"body":"we were doing our prep for this."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1263.269,"endTime":1267.169,"body":"'Buildings leak in the intersection"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1263.269,"endTime":1267.169,"body":"of trade contracts.' And I don't know"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1267.179,"endTime":1271.684,"body":"whether he meant like leak air, physically"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1267.179,"endTime":1271.684,"body":"leak, because it's all the interfaces"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1271.694,"endTime":1274.784,"body":"or whether he meant leak value because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1271.694,"endTime":1274.784,"body":"it's I mean our experience has always"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1274.784,"endTime":1277.394,"body":"been it's the interfaces between the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1274.784,"endTime":1277.394,"body":"different bits that cause all the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1277.394,"endTime":1280.964,"body":"trouble that's why this standardisation"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1277.394,"endTime":1280.964,"body":"of tasks and components and things,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1280.964,"endTime":1283.084,"body":"repeatability helps all of those things."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1284.019,"endTime":1284.279,"body":"Yes."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1284.279,"endTime":1287.699,"body":"And he also, I mean, in addition to what"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1284.279,"endTime":1287.699,"body":"you mentioned, all these interpretations"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1287.699,"endTime":1291.299,"body":"of leaks, I mean, he really wanted  to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1287.699,"endTime":1291.299,"body":"tackle this notion of, you know, if you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1291.299,"endTime":1294.589,"body":"have a project and you break it down"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1291.299,"endTime":1294.589,"body":"in pieces and you manage every piece"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1294.589,"endTime":1299.399,"body":"individually if every piece individually"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1294.589,"endTime":1299.399,"body":"gets performed optimally, will you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1299.399,"endTime":1301.199,"body":"have performed your project optimally?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1301.599,"endTime":1304.369,"body":"And the answer is, you know,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1301.599,"endTime":1304.369,"body":"probably not because the pieces"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1304.419,"endTime":1307.889,"body":"are not independent of one another,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1304.419,"endTime":1307.889,"body":"there's a lot of interfaces, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1307.889,"endTime":1309.499,"body":"There's a lot of interconnectedness."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1309.499,"endTime":1311.949,"body":"And so again, if you optimise"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1309.499,"endTime":1311.949,"body":"at the local level, you may"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1311.949,"endTime":1313.429,"body":"not optimise at a global level."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1313.889,"endTime":1318.559,"body":"So yeah, buildings leak physically,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1313.889,"endTime":1318.559,"body":"Todd had a roofing contracting company."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1318.559,"endTime":1322.262,"body":"So leaks were very much on his"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1318.559,"endTime":1322.262,"body":"mind at the time when, when he"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1322.262,"endTime":1325.91,"body":"was developing his first Building"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1322.262,"endTime":1325.91,"body":"Information Models in the 1990s."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1326.367,"endTime":1330.177,"body":"But then of course, in terms of contracts,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1326.367,"endTime":1330.177,"body":"there's always issues with scope overlap"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1330.177,"endTime":1333.837,"body":"and scope gap and,  who, you know,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1330.177,"endTime":1333.837,"body":"addresses which part of the scope."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1333.837,"endTime":1336.317,"body":"And again, this gets us back"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1333.837,"endTime":1336.317,"body":"to Integrated Project Delivery."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1336.534,"endTime":1340.734,"body":"You need to be able to have conversations"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1336.534,"endTime":1340.734,"body":"around who is going to do what"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1340.734,"endTime":1344.854,"body":"and who's in the best position,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1340.734,"endTime":1344.854,"body":"right, to perform a certain task."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1344.854,"endTime":1347.564,"body":"And it's not like everybody"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1344.854,"endTime":1347.564,"body":"has to perform the same tasks."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1347.944,"endTime":1351.214,"body":"And it's not because we've always"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1347.944,"endTime":1351.214,"body":"done it one way that necessarily we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1351.214,"endTime":1352.574,"body":"have to keep doing it the same way."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1353.209,"endTime":1356.745,"body":"So these discussions, we talk about"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1353.209,"endTime":1356.745,"body":"work structuring, these discussions"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1356.745,"endTime":1358.235,"body":"need to be had in every project."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1359.015,"endTime":1363.625,"body":"How are we with the team, you know,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1359.015,"endTime":1363.625,"body":"knowing who is on board, who has what"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1363.625,"endTime":1368.765,"body":"capabilities and what context we're in,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1363.625,"endTime":1368.765,"body":"how are we going to do the work together?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1369.745,"endTime":1372.945,"body":"Yeah, one of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1369.745,"endTime":1372.945,"body":"phrases that you use, work density,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1372.985,"endTime":1374.915,"body":"I absolutely love that phrase."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1374.925,"endTime":1377.945,"body":"So we used to have a mental construct."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1377.945,"endTime":1380.675,"body":"We said,  imagine you're looking"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1377.945,"endTime":1380.675,"body":"at  the assets, and you've got"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1380.685,"endTime":1383.055,"body":"a pair of thermographic goggles,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1380.685,"endTime":1383.055,"body":"but instead  they're looking at,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1383.065,"endTime":1384.465,"body":"we would call cost densities."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1384.465,"endTime":1387.065,"body":"You're looking at the bits of all"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1384.465,"endTime":1387.065,"body":"the trades, all the interfaces."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1387.645,"endTime":1389.445,"body":"We imagine looking around the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1387.645,"endTime":1389.445,"body":"building going, that bit is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1389.76,"endTime":1393.13,"body":"blazing white hot, that's the bit"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1389.76,"endTime":1393.13,"body":"where we should pre fabricate."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1393.56,"endTime":1395.68,"body":"So we weren't using it in quite the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1393.56,"endTime":1395.68,"body":"same way, but perhaps you can explain"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1395.68,"endTime":1398.76,"body":"what you mean by work density, because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1395.68,"endTime":1398.76,"body":"it's a great concept, and it very"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1398.76,"endTime":1401.02,"body":"much aligns with some of the things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1398.76,"endTime":1401.02,"body":"that we've thought about over here."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1402.1,"endTime":1404.58,"body":"So, work density"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1402.1,"endTime":1404.58,"body":"came about as we started to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1404.58,"endTime":1406.05,"body":"do research on takt planning."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1406.94,"endTime":1411.4,"body":"And again, this was  on a Sutter"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1406.94,"endTime":1411.4,"body":"Health project where, you know,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1411.4,"endTime":1413.49,"body":"speed was really absolutely crucial."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1413.49,"endTime":1417.13,"body":"And the question was, how can"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1413.49,"endTime":1417.13,"body":"you gain speed on a project?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1417.14,"endTime":1423.68,"body":"And it was obvious, and we're going"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1417.14,"endTime":1423.68,"body":"back to 2011, 2012 in the community"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1423.68,"endTime":1427.3,"body":"of lean practitioners, we were"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1423.68,"endTime":1427.3,"body":"gradually improving, practicing"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1427.3,"endTime":1430.51,"body":"different lean methods, but takt"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1427.3,"endTime":1430.51,"body":"planning was quite new at the time."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1430.51,"endTime":1432.43,"body":"And the question is, how do"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1430.51,"endTime":1432.43,"body":"you do this on a project?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1433.33,"endTime":1435.94,"body":"and the notion in takt planning,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1433.33,"endTime":1435.94,"body":"of course, is that you need to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1435.94,"endTime":1440.76,"body":"have a very reliable beat for every"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1435.94,"endTime":1440.76,"body":"step in a process to be performed."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1440.8,"endTime":1445.23,"body":"And so we're trying to replicate that with"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1440.8,"endTime":1445.23,"body":"process steps on a construction project."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1445.23,"endTime":1449.705,"body":"And we were trying to find, you know,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1445.23,"endTime":1449.705,"body":"what is the beat for the process so that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1449.725,"endTime":1453.165,"body":"everybody can be sure that they will be"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1449.725,"endTime":1453.165,"body":"able to do their work within that beat."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1453.635,"endTime":1456.645,"body":"So, it's a line balancing problem"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1453.635,"endTime":1456.645,"body":"as it's called in manufacturing."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1456.655,"endTime":1457.585,"body":"It's not a new problem."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1457.585,"endTime":1460.355,"body":"What's different for construction,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1457.585,"endTime":1460.355,"body":"of course, is that we don't"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1460.365,"endTime":1462.665,"body":"have linear assembly lines."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1462.715,"endTime":1465.825,"body":"We necessarily are working in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1462.715,"endTime":1465.825,"body":"two dimensional space, if not"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1465.825,"endTime":1467.775,"body":"in three dimensional space,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1465.825,"endTime":1467.775,"body":"for the work that we do."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1467.775,"endTime":1469.855,"body":"So we had to think of a"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1467.775,"endTime":1469.855,"body":"slightly different concept."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1470.545,"endTime":1475.525,"body":"But the notion is really that you want"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1470.545,"endTime":1475.525,"body":"to give every trade the proper amount of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1475.535,"endTime":1477.435,"body":"time to do their work in a given area."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1478.225,"endTime":1481.625,"body":"And some trades need to spend a"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1478.225,"endTime":1481.625,"body":"lot of time, for example, in the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1481.625,"endTime":1484.445,"body":"electrical closet, the electrician"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1481.625,"endTime":1484.445,"body":"will spend a lot of time there."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1484.735,"endTime":1487.895,"body":"But of course, the mechanical contractor"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1484.735,"endTime":1487.895,"body":"probably does not have anything there"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1487.895,"endTime":1489.535,"body":"because all the electrical gear is there."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1489.875,"endTime":1494.485,"body":"So I wanted to capture somehow how much"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1489.875,"endTime":1494.485,"body":"time the trades would spend per area."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1495.175,"endTime":1497.055,"body":"And of course, that depends"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1495.175,"endTime":1497.055,"body":"on many different things."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1497.055,"endTime":1500.725,"body":"It depends on the types of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1497.055,"endTime":1500.725,"body":"materials that need to be installed."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1500.725,"endTime":1503.105,"body":"It depends on the scales of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1500.725,"endTime":1503.105,"body":"the trade, the tools that they"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1503.105,"endTime":1504.535,"body":"have, the methods that we have."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1504.975,"endTime":1507.785,"body":"But importantly, it also depends"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1504.975,"endTime":1507.785,"body":"on whether, for example, you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1507.785,"endTime":1509.445,"body":"decide to prefabricate or not."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1509.635,"endTime":1511.575,"body":"If you're going to stick build"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1509.635,"endTime":1511.575,"body":"something, you're going to spend"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1511.575,"endTime":1513.105,"body":"a lot of time in a certain area."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1513.61,"endTime":1516.73,"body":"if you can prefabricate,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1513.61,"endTime":1516.73,"body":"then obviously you will spend"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1516.73,"endTime":1518.57,"body":"much less time in that area."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1518.57,"endTime":1520.83,"body":"So that's where the notion"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1518.57,"endTime":1520.83,"body":"of work density came from."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1520.88,"endTime":1526.01,"body":"It's first of all to try to characterise"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1520.88,"endTime":1526.01,"body":"for the trades how much time they"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1526.01,"endTime":1530.49,"body":"would need based on, you know, all"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1526.01,"endTime":1530.49,"body":"the assumptions about work structuring"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1530.5,"endTime":1533.57,"body":"that I've just mentioned, means"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1530.5,"endTime":1533.57,"body":"and methods, crew sizes, and so on."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1534.04,"endTime":1538.85,"body":"And then with that understanding, then try"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1534.04,"endTime":1538.85,"body":"to define how much space they would need"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1539.3,"endTime":1543.77,"body":"and define the zones of work that would"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1539.3,"endTime":1543.77,"body":"suit everybody so that we could actually"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1543.78,"endTime":1545.87,"body":"balance how the work is being done."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1546.65,"endTime":1549.43,"body":"And indeed, one of the nice"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1546.65,"endTime":1549.43,"body":"things about work density is"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1549.43,"endTime":1551.6,"body":"it's a generic metric, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1551.6,"endTime":1553.41,"body":"It's amount of time per space."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1553.96,"endTime":1558.91,"body":"So we can talk about any trade, we can"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1553.96,"endTime":1558.91,"body":"talk about any scope of work, and it gives"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1558.91,"endTime":1564.97,"body":"us the opportunity to talk about speed"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1558.91,"endTime":1564.97,"body":"in regards to investments we can make."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1565.48,"endTime":1570.59,"body":"In doing the work in a different way,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1565.48,"endTime":1570.59,"body":"whether it's with robots on a construction"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1570.59,"endTime":1574.81,"body":"site, for example, or whether it's"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1570.59,"endTime":1574.81,"body":"doing it in an off site location."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1575.21,"endTime":1580.49,"body":"We can at least begin to explore these"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1575.21,"endTime":1580.49,"body":"options and see if they're beneficial"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1580.52,"endTime":1585.1,"body":"for the takt, for the speed at"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1580.52,"endTime":1585.1,"body":"which we try to deliver the project."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1585.78,"endTime":1588.46,"body":"Yeah, that aligns with"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1585.78,"endTime":1588.46,"body":"some of the stuff we tried on  The Forge"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1588.54,"endTime":1591.82,"body":"where, yeah, we were talking about factory"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1588.54,"endTime":1591.82,"body":"conditions on site and saying actually"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1591.83,"endTime":1595.8,"body":"off site is not necessarily the best place"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1591.83,"endTime":1595.8,"body":"for the activity if you can conduct it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1595.81,"endTime":1597.98,"body":"in very productive conditions on site."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1598.26,"endTime":1599.59,"body":"Maybe that's more beneficial."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1599.8,"endTime":1604.53,"body":"One of the most interesting and maybe"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1599.8,"endTime":1604.53,"body":"counterintuitive findings that came"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1604.53,"endTime":1608.37,"body":"out of the Cambridge study was whereas"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1604.53,"endTime":1608.37,"body":"on the actual project, they poured"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1608.4,"endTime":1611.87,"body":"the slab in two pours or four pours."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1612.425,"endTime":1615.775,"body":"The Cambridge team said actually"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1612.425,"endTime":1615.775,"body":"you should have a smaller pour,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1615.805,"endTime":1618.505,"body":"you should have more smaller pours"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1615.805,"endTime":1618.505,"body":"to get the takt time and that was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1618.505,"endTime":1619.645,"body":"really counterintuitive to me."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1619.645,"endTime":1623.425,"body":"They were saying smaller batches"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1619.645,"endTime":1623.425,"body":"sometimes make you go faster, which"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1623.425,"endTime":1625.975,"body":"is contrary to the  traditional"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1623.425,"endTime":1625.975,"body":"thinking of going just do the biggest"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1626.135,"endTime":1627.645,"body":"lump of stuff I can and drop it in."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1627.782,"endTime":1629.962,"body":"Perhaps you can elaborate on that because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1627.782,"endTime":1629.962,"body":"I know that's something you touch on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1629.962,"endTime":1633.465,"body":"the batch size and working the takt"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1629.962,"endTime":1633.465,"body":"time around the common drum beat rather"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1633.465,"endTime":1636.215,"body":"than necessarily the size of things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1633.465,"endTime":1636.215,"body":"that was quite an eye opener for us."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1636.875,"endTime":1641.532,"body":"Yeah, so the notion in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1636.875,"endTime":1641.532,"body":"takt planning in  construction is that,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1641.532,"endTime":1646.022,"body":"of course, you can zone the workspace"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1641.532,"endTime":1646.022,"body":"and you can treat it as a single space,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1646.022,"endTime":1650.442,"body":"in which case, then if you're going to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1646.022,"endTime":1650.442,"body":"give every trade access to the space by"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1650.442,"endTime":1654.192,"body":"themselves, so they can work in optimal"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1650.442,"endTime":1654.192,"body":"conditions, that's a big premise."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1654.692,"endTime":1658.812,"body":"Right, that's the goal of takt planning"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1654.692,"endTime":1658.812,"body":"is you try to give the space to one trade"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1658.842,"endTime":1662.882,"body":"so they can work unobstructedly by other"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1658.842,"endTime":1662.882,"body":"trades and work in the best way possible."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1662.882,"endTime":1667.932,"body":"So if you have a very large"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1662.882,"endTime":1667.932,"body":"space, then obviously, when work"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1667.932,"endTime":1670.272,"body":"needs to be done sequentially,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1667.932,"endTime":1670.272,"body":"it's going to take a long time."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1670.752,"endTime":1674.362,"body":"So what we do in takt planning, we try"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1670.752,"endTime":1674.362,"body":"to create concurrency, we try to create"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1674.382,"endTime":1678.652,"body":"multiple assembly lines, and we do that"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1674.382,"endTime":1678.652,"body":"by dividing this maze in smaller pieces."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1679.452,"endTime":1682.372,"body":"And in theory, the more"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1679.452,"endTime":1682.372,"body":"pieces, the faster you can go."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1682.552,"endTime":1685.082,"body":"In practice, again, There's"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1682.552,"endTime":1685.082,"body":"a limit to that, of course."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1685.482,"endTime":1688.462,"body":"If the pieces get too small,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1685.482,"endTime":1688.462,"body":"they become impractical for"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1688.462,"endTime":1690.182,"body":"the trades to be productive."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1690.352,"endTime":1693.322,"body":"You know, if you need a scissor lift, you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1690.352,"endTime":1693.322,"body":"need space to move around a scissor lift.."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1693.342,"endTime":1696.592,"body":"If you give not enough space, the scissor"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1693.342,"endTime":1696.592,"body":"lift is going to become meaningless"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1697.262,"endTime":1699.322,"body":"and then the work densities also vary."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1699.322,"endTime":1702.502,"body":"So  certain things you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1699.322,"endTime":1702.502,"body":"cannot make smaller, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1702.502,"endTime":1704.752,"body":"So back to this electrical"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1702.502,"endTime":1704.752,"body":"closet, you cannot divide the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1704.752,"endTime":1706.002,"body":"electrical closet in half."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1706.002,"endTime":1707.402,"body":"It wouldn't make sense to do that."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1707.922,"endTime":1711.132,"body":"So there, there are practical"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1707.922,"endTime":1711.132,"body":"limits, but theoretically, the more,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1711.462,"endTime":1714.172,"body":"you know, the more concurrency you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1711.462,"endTime":1714.172,"body":"can create, the faster you can go."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1714.507,"endTime":1718.407,"body":"So, what's interesting  where we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1714.507,"endTime":1718.407,"body":"still have a lot of research questions"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1718.407,"endTime":1722.477,"body":"as far as that goes is  how is work"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1718.407,"endTime":1722.477,"body":"done and how much space do people"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1722.477,"endTime":1726.097,"body":"need and what are the right means and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1722.477,"endTime":1726.097,"body":"methods to use in certain contexts?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1726.467,"endTime":1730.836,"body":"And how can we ensure that there will be"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1726.467,"endTime":1730.836,"body":"predictability in the completion time?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1731.727,"endTime":1735.077,"body":"So one of the challenges I still"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1731.727,"endTime":1735.077,"body":"see in our industry gets us back to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1735.077,"endTime":1740.477,"body":"variability, is that we don't have a good"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1735.077,"endTime":1740.477,"body":"understanding of what in manufacturing"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1740.477,"endTime":1742.027,"body":"is called process capability."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1743.097,"endTime":1748.107,"body":"So if you look at assembly lines in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1743.097,"endTime":1748.107,"body":"Toyota or elsewhere, every step in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1748.107,"endTime":1752.502,"body":"an operation is very tightly timed,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1748.107,"endTime":1752.502,"body":"and they know exactly, what one"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1752.502,"endTime":1754.482,"body":"person or what one machine can do."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1754.502,"endTime":1757.902,"body":"And any person, any machine"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1754.502,"endTime":1757.902,"body":"can do for that given step."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1757.952,"endTime":1761.922,"body":"In construction, we still have a"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1757.952,"endTime":1761.922,"body":"lot of variability in that regard."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1761.922,"endTime":1765.202,"body":"And so it makes it a little bit more"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1761.922,"endTime":1765.202,"body":"difficult  to come up with the right"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1765.202,"endTime":1767.302,"body":"times to balance our production systems."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1768.342,"endTime":1768.572,"body":"Yeah."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1768.572,"endTime":1771.972,"body":"So when we first met and I was explaining"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1768.572,"endTime":1771.972,"body":"the work we were doing on platforms,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1772.512,"endTime":1775.802,"body":"again, it was a sort of massive validation"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1772.512,"endTime":1775.802,"body":"that a lot of the things we were doing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1776.307,"endTime":1779.607,"body":"around common components and the idea"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1776.307,"endTime":1779.607,"body":"that you could take lessons learned"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1779.607,"endTime":1783.147,"body":"from the Forge and you could reapply"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1779.607,"endTime":1783.147,"body":"those lessons to the next iteration."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1783.717,"endTime":1786.217,"body":"We had our own interpretation of why"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1783.717,"endTime":1786.217,"body":"that was a good idea, but actually,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1786.267,"endTime":1788.357,"body":"talking to you, the more we hear"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1786.267,"endTime":1788.357,"body":"about it, the more we go, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1788.367,"endTime":1789.557,"body":"we're definitely on the right path."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1789.567,"endTime":1792.717,"body":"This has to be the best opportunity we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1789.567,"endTime":1792.717,"body":"got to get that stability, to get that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1792.717,"endTime":1796.377,"body":"repeatability, to properly make  the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1792.717,"endTime":1796.377,"body":"big shift into a  manufacturing mindset."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1796.377,"endTime":1799.377,"body":"So, it's another one of these"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1796.377,"endTime":1799.377,"body":"areas where there's such alignment."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1799.377,"endTime":1802.627,"body":"It's sort of fantastic that someone on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1799.377,"endTime":1802.627,"body":"the other side of the world has landed"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1802.627,"endTime":1806.72,"body":"on some of the same potential solutions"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1802.627,"endTime":1806.72,"body":"as we've been developing over here."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1806.76,"endTime":1807.83,"body":"So, we love it when that happens."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1808.72,"endTime":1813.57,"body":"Well, and you've really"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1808.72,"endTime":1813.57,"body":"moved very fast forward in getting all"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1813.57,"endTime":1817.68,"body":"the systems integrated, because I think"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1813.57,"endTime":1817.68,"body":"there's a number of players who in, and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1817.68,"endTime":1822.93,"body":"by themselves, have tried to standardise,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1817.68,"endTime":1822.93,"body":"but I think the huge challenges have"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1822.93,"endTime":1825.53,"body":"been to get everybody on board, right?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1826.233,"endTime":1828.438,"body":"Not sure they're all on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1826.233,"endTime":1828.438,"body":"board yet, but it's a work in progress."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1828.438,"endTime":1830.398,"body":"Like you,  yeah, we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1828.438,"endTime":1830.398,"body":"still got lots to cover."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1830.728,"endTime":1833.468,"body":"It would be remiss of me if I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1830.728,"endTime":1833.468,"body":"didn't ask a question about AI,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1833.788,"endTime":1835.278,"body":"given it's such a hot topic."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1835.278,"endTime":1839.058,"body":"So you started looking"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1835.278,"endTime":1839.058,"body":"at AI in 1985, is that?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1839.803,"endTime":1840.333,"body":"Is that true?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1841.153,"endTime":1843.363,"body":"Yes, it"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1841.153,"endTime":1843.363,"body":"dates me again, right?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1843.363,"endTime":1844.473,"body":"It's kind of inevitable."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1845.863,"endTime":1847.963,"body":"You must have been in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1845.863,"endTime":1847.963,"body":"a world of prediction at that point."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1848.287,"endTime":1850.677,"body":"It'd be just interesting to get your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1848.287,"endTime":1850.677,"body":"take on how things have progressed,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1850.677,"endTime":1853.267,"body":"what you think the current state is."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1853.347,"endTime":1856.517,"body":"We've talked on this podcast before"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1853.347,"endTime":1856.517,"body":"about everyone's got tons of data, but"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1856.517,"endTime":1859.567,"body":"is it in a fit state for teaching AI?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1859.567,"endTime":1862.577,"body":"How close do you think we are"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1859.567,"endTime":1862.577,"body":"to really deploying some of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1862.577,"endTime":1864.367,"body":"these buzzwords in construction?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1864.752,"endTime":1868.562,"body":"So, regarding AI,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1864.752,"endTime":1868.562,"body":"there is this famous proverb, right,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1868.562,"endTime":1871.672,"body":"that says 'be careful what you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1868.562,"endTime":1871.672,"body":"wish for because it may come true.'"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1872.112,"endTime":1877.107,"body":"In the 1980s, we were working on"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1872.112,"endTime":1877.107,"body":"expert systems and we were, you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1877.107,"endTime":1881.167,"body":"know, doing list programming, very"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1877.107,"endTime":1881.167,"body":"specialised computer based systems."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1881.597,"endTime":1885.067,"body":"We were trying to extract all"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1881.597,"endTime":1885.067,"body":"the rules from experts to try to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1885.067,"endTime":1886.637,"body":"capture them in computer systems."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1886.637,"endTime":1889.007,"body":"And some of that worked and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1886.637,"endTime":1889.007,"body":"some of them worked quite well."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1889.372,"endTime":1892.492,"body":"But it was really hard to maintain"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1889.372,"endTime":1892.492,"body":"these systems, and they became rather"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1892.492,"endTime":1896.102,"body":"unwieldy, and our computers were"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1892.492,"endTime":1896.102,"body":"not as fast as they are today and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1896.102,"endTime":1899.742,"body":"so it was only wishful thinking as"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1896.102,"endTime":1899.742,"body":"to where we thought things could go."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1899.742,"endTime":1905.292,"body":"So, you know, leaping 30 years forward,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1899.742,"endTime":1905.292,"body":"it's it's very exciting Now that we're"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1905.322,"endTime":1909.902,"body":"past this kind of winter of AI, there"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1905.322,"endTime":1909.902,"body":"was a winter of AI in the late 1980s,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1909.902,"endTime":1914.172,"body":"early 1990s, where people  realised"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1909.902,"endTime":1914.172,"body":"that, we needed to begin to think"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1914.172,"endTime":1918.242,"body":"about using computers and artificial"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1914.172,"endTime":1918.242,"body":"intelligence in somewhat different"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1918.282,"endTime":1922.052,"body":"ways because the rule based systems"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1918.282,"endTime":1922.052,"body":"really weren't fit for purpose on the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1922.052,"endTime":1923.622,"body":"scale that we needed them to work."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1924.272,"endTime":1928.512,"body":"So yeah, so here we are with a very"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1924.272,"endTime":1928.512,"body":"smart computer systems that can do"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1928.512,"endTime":1930.422,"body":"machine learning and tons of data."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1930.792,"endTime":1934.632,"body":"Indeed, as you already mentioned,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1930.792,"endTime":1934.632,"body":"structuring data in a way that we"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1934.632,"endTime":1936.452,"body":"can make sense of it  is a big issue."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1936.972,"endTime":1940.982,"body":"And again, it's going to take a lot of"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1936.972,"endTime":1940.982,"body":"discipline, I think, up front as is the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1940.982,"endTime":1944.692,"body":"case in project delivery in general, I"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1940.982,"endTime":1944.692,"body":"think we need to invest more resources up"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1944.692,"endTime":1947.562,"body":"front in order to reap the benefits later."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1947.892,"endTime":1953.312,"body":"For example, if we set up cost estimating"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1947.892,"endTime":1953.312,"body":"systems with a nomenclature for different"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1953.632,"endTime":1956.932,"body":"types of activity description, we want"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1953.632,"endTime":1956.932,"body":"to make sure that our estimates are"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1956.932,"endTime":1958.702,"body":"going to be tied to what happens on site."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1958.702,"endTime":1963.282,"body":"So it's not just about the estimators"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1958.702,"endTime":1963.282,"body":"understanding the nomenclature and the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1963.372,"endTime":1968.182,"body":"categorisations, but also the field people"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1963.372,"endTime":1968.182,"body":"who do the actual project implementation"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1968.182,"endTime":1973.002,"body":"and controls need to, of course, work"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1968.182,"endTime":1973.002,"body":"off the same set of labels, and that's"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1973.002,"endTime":1976.702,"body":"going to take an enormous amount of time,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1973.002,"endTime":1976.702,"body":"I think, still, to get all the people"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1976.702,"endTime":1981.652,"body":"on board to do that, unless we have"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1976.702,"endTime":1981.652,"body":"more machines, more 360 cameras that can"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1981.662,"endTime":1985.202,"body":"extract what actually happens on site"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1981.662,"endTime":1985.202,"body":"and do some of the labelling ourselves."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1985.358,"endTime":1991.068,"body":"I expect really very rapid growth and many"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1985.358,"endTime":1991.068,"body":"successes in the very, very near future."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1991.068,"endTime":1991.628,"body":"I can't wait."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1991.828,"endTime":1993.718,"body":"Next year we'll be in"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1991.828,"endTime":1993.718,"body":"a very different place."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1993.718,"endTime":1995.888,"body":"Two years from now, it's going"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1993.718,"endTime":1995.888,"body":"to be radically different"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":1995.888,"endTime":1996.948,"body":"from what we're doing today."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1997.918,"endTime":2000.118,"body":"I presume all of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1997.918,"endTime":2000.118,"body":"this would be, again, accelerated"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2000.118,"endTime":2002.918,"body":"by more stability, less variation."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2003.608,"endTime":2004.898,"body":"You know, you get a better data set."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2004.898,"endTime":2007.398,"body":"You'd have a closer link between"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2004.898,"endTime":2007.398,"body":"the models, the activities, and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2007.398,"endTime":2009.538,"body":"all these things if you were"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2007.398,"endTime":2009.538,"body":"doing very repeatable things."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2009.538,"endTime":2012.018,"body":"I guess, again, everything's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2009.538,"endTime":2012.018,"body":"telling us that the same thing about"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2012.048,"endTime":2015.788,"body":"simplifying, getting standardised"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2012.048,"endTime":2015.788,"body":"components, repeatable processes."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2016.608,"endTime":2017.958,"body":"Exactly, exactly."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2018.648,"endTime":2023.058,"body":"And then the other part, besides the"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2018.648,"endTime":2023.058,"body":"repeatable processes  and reconciling, you"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2023.058,"endTime":2026.138,"body":"know, the other side, of course, is are"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2023.058,"endTime":2026.138,"body":"there different ways to look at the world?"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2026.322,"endTime":2029.637,"body":"You know, are there different"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2026.322,"endTime":2029.637,"body":"conceptualisations that we need to"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2029.637,"endTime":2036.287,"body":"describe construction, to do our project"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2029.637,"endTime":2036.287,"body":"controls maybe to further restructure how"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2036.287,"endTime":2040.407,"body":"we do the work together with more machines"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2036.287,"endTime":2040.407,"body":"and there too, it's hard to predict"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2040.407,"endTime":2044.637,"body":"what the future will bring, but I think"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2040.407,"endTime":2044.637,"body":"there'll be major changes in work methods"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2044.637,"endTime":2050.957,"body":"and in materials, sizes of materials,"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2044.637,"endTime":2050.957,"body":"delivery systems  that will change our"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2050.957,"endTime":2052.897,"body":"industry very radically,  very soon."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2053.647,"endTime":2055.837,"body":"But again, they'll need"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2053.647,"endTime":2055.837,"body":"quite a big cultural change, won't they?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2055.837,"endTime":2058.764,"body":"All of these things seem to be linked,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2055.837,"endTime":2058.764,"body":"that the technology and the culture"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2058.764,"endTime":2061.364,"body":"always seem to go hand in hand,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2058.764,"endTime":2061.364,"body":"that they go, yes, there's loads of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2061.404,"endTime":2063.604,"body":"technology we could deploy, but we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2061.404,"endTime":2063.604,"body":"will have to think differently in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2063.604,"endTime":2067.064,"body":"terms of how we design and procure"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2063.604,"endTime":2067.064,"body":"and deliver and assemble these assets."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2067.694,"endTime":2068.124,"body":"That's it."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2069.054,"endTime":2069.474,"body":"Fantastic."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2069.574,"endTime":2070.284,"body":"We'll wrap it up there."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2070.284,"endTime":2072.799,"body":"I could have asked lots more"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2070.284,"endTime":2072.799,"body":"questions, but  hopefully I'll see"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2072.799,"endTime":2074.529,"body":"you again over in the Bay Area soon."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2074.866,"endTime":2076.496,"body":"Iris, thank you ever"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2074.866,"endTime":2076.496,"body":"so much for joining us."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2076.506,"endTime":2078.006,"body":"It's been a really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2076.506,"endTime":2078.006,"body":"interesting conversation."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2078.006,"endTime":2079.886,"body":"I hope all the listeners have"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2078.006,"endTime":2079.886,"body":"enjoyed it as much as I have."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2080.855,"endTime":2081.496,"body":"Thank you very much."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2081.496,"endTime":2084.806,"body":"I really appreciate the opportunity and"},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2081.496,"endTime":2084.806,"body":"I very much enjoyed it as well, Jaimie."},{"speaker":"Iris Tommelein","startTime":2085.372,"endTime":2086.052,"body":"We'll be in touch."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2086.659,"endTime":2087.949,"body":"So thank you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2086.659,"endTime":2087.949,"body":"ever so much for listening."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2087.999,"endTime":2091.359,"body":"And please join us on the next"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2087.999,"endTime":2091.359,"body":"edition of Built Environment Matters."},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":2092.155,"endTime":2095.515,"body":"Thank you for listening to"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":2092.155,"endTime":2095.515,"body":"Built Environment Matters, a podcast"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":2095.515,"endTime":2096.835,"body":"brought to you by Bryden Wood."},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":2097.495,"endTime":2101.005,"body":"Listen and subscribe wherever you get"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":2097.495,"endTime":2101.005,"body":"your favourite podcast, and you can follow"},{"speaker":"Intro","startTime":2101.005,"endTime":2102.595,"body":"Bryden Wood on LinkedIn and Twitter."}]}