{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":9.06,"endTime":12.18,"body":"Hello, welcome to Built"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":9.06,"endTime":12.18,"body":"Environment Matters, a monthly"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":12.18,"endTime":15.66,"body":"podcast brought to you by Bryden"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":12.18,"endTime":15.66,"body":"Wood, an international company"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":15.84,"endTime":18.87,"body":"of technologists, designers,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":15.84,"endTime":18.87,"body":"architects, engineers and"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":18.87,"endTime":22.92,"body":"analysts working for a better"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":18.87,"endTime":22.92,"body":"built environment, Bryden Wood"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":22.92,"endTime":26.88,"body":"believe in design to value to"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":22.92,"endTime":26.88,"body":"cut carbon, drive efficiency,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":27.06,"endTime":30.57,"body":"save time, make beautiful"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":27.06,"endTime":30.57,"body":"places, and build a better"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":30.57,"endTime":31.14,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":34.09,"endTime":36.13,"body":"Hi, I'm Jaimie"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":34.09,"endTime":36.13,"body":"Johnston, Head of Global Systems"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":36.13,"endTime":39.28,"body":"at Bryden Wood and welcome to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":36.13,"endTime":39.28,"body":"episode three of our podcast,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":39.28,"endTime":43.12,"body":"Built Environment Matters. This"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":39.28,"endTime":43.12,"body":"time, I'm joined by John Dyson,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":43.15,"endTime":46.27,"body":"former Vice President of Capital"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":43.15,"endTime":46.27,"body":"Strategy, at pharmaceutical"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":46.27,"endTime":49.87,"body":"giant GlaxoSmithKline. And now"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":46.27,"endTime":49.87,"body":"Professor of Human Enterprise at"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":49.87,"endTime":52.72,"body":"the University of Birmingham in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":49.87,"endTime":52.72,"body":"the UK. Were going to be"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":52.72,"endTime":56.32,"body":"talking about design to value in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":52.72,"endTime":56.32,"body":"process engineering. We'll talk"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":56.32,"endTime":58.84,"body":"a bit about what that means, in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":56.32,"endTime":58.84,"body":"theory, and then look at some of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":58.84,"endTime":61.72,"body":"the practical real world"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":58.84,"endTime":61.72,"body":"examples. Hi John, welcome."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":62.219,"endTime":63.929,"body":"Hi, good to speak to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":62.219,"endTime":63.929,"body":"you today."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":64.65,"endTime":67.53,"body":"So first things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":64.65,"endTime":67.53,"body":"first, John, what is process"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":67.53,"endTime":68.22,"body":"engineering?"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":68.84,"endTime":71.9,"body":"Yeah, so process"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":68.84,"endTime":71.9,"body":"engineering is it's an it's an"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":71.9,"endTime":76.58,"body":"interesting subject to talk"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":71.9,"endTime":76.58,"body":"about, because often people jump"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":76.61,"endTime":81.5,"body":"into the idea of the sort of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":76.61,"endTime":81.5,"body":"science of process engineering,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":81.83,"endTime":86.24,"body":"and chemical reactions and the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":81.83,"endTime":86.24,"body":"sort of subjects that you study"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":86.24,"endTime":90.38,"body":"at university and university"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":86.24,"endTime":90.38,"body":"courses. But, but for me,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":90.38,"endTime":94.94,"body":"process engineering is much"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":90.38,"endTime":94.94,"body":"wider than that. And it's about"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":94.94,"endTime":101.66,"body":"understanding the systems that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":94.94,"endTime":101.66,"body":"create outcomes and purposes. So"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":101.66,"endTime":106.49,"body":"whenever there's a desired"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":101.66,"endTime":106.49,"body":"outcome, there's a process that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":106.55,"endTime":111.32,"body":"that needs to be needs to be"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":106.55,"endTime":111.32,"body":"gone through in order to achieve"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":111.32,"endTime":115.13,"body":"that outcome. And that means"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":111.32,"endTime":115.13,"body":"that things need to flow that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":115.13,"endTime":118.19,"body":"things need to come together"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":115.13,"endTime":118.19,"body":"that things need to react"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":118.7,"endTime":122.45,"body":"together to happen and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":118.7,"endTime":122.45,"body":"understanding how that how that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":122.45,"endTime":127.07,"body":"happens. That system that comes"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":122.45,"endTime":127.07,"body":"together to produce the outcome"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":127.07,"endTime":131.27,"body":"is really important to make sure"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":127.07,"endTime":131.27,"body":"that we get the outcomes we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":131.27,"endTime":135.41,"body":"require. And, and although"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":131.27,"endTime":135.41,"body":"process engineering is often"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":135.65,"endTime":139.16,"body":"focused towards things like"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":135.65,"endTime":139.16,"body":"manufacturing, where there's the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":139.16,"endTime":143.45,"body":"output is clearly something like"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":139.16,"endTime":143.45,"body":"a product, it can be as equally"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":143.45,"endTime":148.19,"body":"applied to something that has a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":143.45,"endTime":148.19,"body":"social outcome, or a service"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":148.19,"endTime":148.73,"body":"outcome."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":149.82,"endTime":151.53,"body":"Yes, that's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":149.82,"endTime":151.53,"body":"quite important, isn't it? So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":151.53,"endTime":155.1,"body":"when I first encountered this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":151.53,"endTime":155.1,"body":"term, I assumed it only referred"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":155.13,"endTime":158.31,"body":"to pharmaceuticals or car"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":155.13,"endTime":158.31,"body":"production, but actually that,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":158.34,"endTime":161.07,"body":"you know, we apply process"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":158.34,"endTime":161.07,"body":"engineering much, much wider"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":161.07,"endTime":161.7,"body":"than that, don't we?"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":162.87,"endTime":167.55,"body":"Yeah, so so hospital"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":162.87,"endTime":167.55,"body":"is a process is a process of, of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":167.58,"endTime":170.91,"body":"bringing in patients, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":167.58,"endTime":170.91,"body":"finding out what's wrong with"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":170.91,"endTime":174.36,"body":"them carrying out tests,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":170.91,"endTime":174.36,"body":"consulting, treatments,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":174.36,"endTime":178.14,"body":"recovery, that's all part of a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":174.36,"endTime":178.14,"body":"process for a patient to go"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":178.14,"endTime":182.79,"body":"through. And understanding that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":178.14,"endTime":182.79,"body":"process helps you understand how"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":182.79,"endTime":187.11,"body":"to design a hospital, which"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":182.79,"endTime":187.11,"body":"which, of course, you know, a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":187.11,"endTime":191.79,"body":"lot about, but an airport is, is"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":187.11,"endTime":191.79,"body":"another process where you've got"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":191.79,"endTime":194.94,"body":"to take passengers through,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":191.79,"endTime":194.94,"body":"you've got to, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":195.0,"endTime":199.59,"body":"security, check them, get their"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":195.0,"endTime":199.59,"body":"luggage and security, check that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":199.59,"endTime":203.46,"body":"and get them onto the plane,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":199.59,"endTime":203.46,"body":"they're all processes as much as"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":203.46,"endTime":207.42,"body":"the sort of classical"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":203.46,"endTime":207.42,"body":"manufacturing processes of, of,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":207.42,"endTime":210.24,"body":"you know, manufacturing goods,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":207.42,"endTime":210.24,"body":"putting them in packaging, etc."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":211.08,"endTime":214.47,"body":"Absolutely. And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":211.08,"endTime":214.47,"body":"why? Why do you think process"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":214.47,"endTime":217.2,"body":"engineering is particularly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":214.47,"endTime":217.2,"body":"important now in the current"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":217.2,"endTime":217.53,"body":"climate?"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":219.48,"endTime":224.16,"body":"And I think we're,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":219.48,"endTime":224.16,"body":"we're realising that, that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":225.93,"endTime":230.64,"body":"there's lots of challenges to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":225.93,"endTime":230.64,"body":"tackle. At the moment. I mean,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":230.64,"endTime":233.82,"body":"the the one, the one that's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":230.64,"endTime":233.82,"body":"right on top of us now, is, of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":233.82,"endTime":237.36,"body":"course, the covid pandemic. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":233.82,"endTime":237.36,"body":"there's all sorts of outcomes"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":237.36,"endTime":242.52,"body":"we're trying to do there,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":237.36,"endTime":242.52,"body":"whether it be you know, tracking"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":242.52,"endTime":247.68,"body":"and testing people, whether it"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":242.52,"endTime":247.68,"body":"be creating vaccine vaccines,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":247.68,"endTime":251.01,"body":"and then ultimately distributing"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":247.68,"endTime":251.01,"body":"them, or other treatments."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":251.01,"endTime":254.82,"body":"There's lots of processes that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":251.01,"endTime":254.82,"body":"that we're doing. But But on top"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":254.82,"endTime":258.03,"body":"of all that, you've got things"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":254.82,"endTime":258.03,"body":"like the thing, the climate"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":258.03,"endTime":261.93,"body":"crisis, and global warming and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":258.03,"endTime":261.93,"body":"lots of outcomes there. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":261.93,"endTime":265.56,"body":"there's a general understanding"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":261.93,"endTime":265.56,"body":"that unless you really go into"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":265.56,"endTime":269.19,"body":"and understand the processes"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":265.56,"endTime":269.19,"body":"that need to come together to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":269.19,"endTime":272.7,"body":"make these things happen, you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":269.19,"endTime":272.7,"body":"won't get the outcomes you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":272.7,"endTime":277.56,"body":"require. And just leaving it to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":272.7,"endTime":277.56,"body":"chance and leaving it to, to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":277.56,"endTime":281.46,"body":"simple thinking, you know, won't"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":277.56,"endTime":281.46,"body":"won't get us the results we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":281.46,"endTime":282.0,"body":"want."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":282.84,"endTime":285.48,"body":"Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":282.84,"endTime":285.48,"body":"quite right. So I'd like to come"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":285.48,"endTime":289.53,"body":"back to vaccines, particularly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":285.48,"endTime":289.53,"body":"later, but maybe let's explore a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":289.53,"endTime":292.71,"body":"bit more conceptually what we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":289.53,"endTime":292.71,"body":"mean by process engineering. So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":293.1,"endTime":296.13,"body":"at Bryden Wood we very often"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":293.1,"endTime":296.13,"body":"talk about design to value being"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":296.13,"endTime":300.42,"body":"our overarching principle, how"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":296.13,"endTime":300.42,"body":"does process engineering relate"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":300.42,"endTime":303.03,"body":"to design to value isn't the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":300.42,"endTime":303.03,"body":"same thing? Is it? Is it a part"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":303.03,"endTime":305.73,"body":"of design value? How would you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":303.03,"endTime":305.73,"body":"How would you articulate it?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.25,"endTime":311.42,"body":"Yeah, I think it's,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":307.25,"endTime":311.42,"body":"it's, they're very, very closely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.42,"endTime":316.82,"body":"linked. So when I talked about"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":311.42,"endTime":316.82,"body":"process engineering, the first"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.82,"endTime":320.57,"body":"thing you're looking at is what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":316.82,"endTime":320.57,"body":"they are, the desired outcome is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.9,"endTime":325.31,"body":"the end point and, and design to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":320.9,"endTime":325.31,"body":"value looks at that in in two"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":325.31,"endTime":328.97,"body":"ways. One of them is it looks at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":325.31,"endTime":328.97,"body":"something called a problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":328.97,"endTime":332.63,"body":"statement. So what's the step"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":328.97,"endTime":332.63,"body":"change in performance, we're"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.63,"endTime":335.36,"body":"looking for what what's the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":332.63,"endTime":335.36,"body":"outcome we're looking for? What"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.36,"endTime":341.12,"body":"is the problem we're trying to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":335.36,"endTime":341.12,"body":"crack. So if you take the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.39,"endTime":343.97,"body":"pandemic, what the problem"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":341.39,"endTime":343.97,"body":"you're trying to crack at the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.97,"endTime":348.47,"body":"moment, which is a difficult"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":343.97,"endTime":348.47,"body":"problem, is is to allow people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.47,"endTime":351.53,"body":"to go about their business to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":348.47,"endTime":351.53,"body":"allow the economy to, to grow"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.53,"endTime":354.89,"body":"and people to be employed, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":351.53,"endTime":354.89,"body":"also to protect life and that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":354.89,"endTime":357.74,"body":"and that's an outcome, that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":354.89,"endTime":357.74,"body":"the problem that you're trying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":357.74,"endTime":362.51,"body":"to fix. And that's the starting"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":357.74,"endTime":362.51,"body":"point of process engineering is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.51,"endTime":366.41,"body":"understanding the problem that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":362.51,"endTime":366.41,"body":"you're trying to crack. And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":366.41,"endTime":371.42,"body":"second really important part,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":366.41,"endTime":371.42,"body":"then is to look at value itself."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.84,"endTime":377.54,"body":"And what what, what you value"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":371.84,"endTime":377.54,"body":"about the outcome. And And the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.54,"endTime":381.5,"body":"thing about value is, is often"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":377.54,"endTime":381.5,"body":"people jump when you use the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":381.5,"endTime":387.11,"body":"term value to economic value."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":381.5,"endTime":387.11,"body":"And so the cost of something, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":387.11,"endTime":390.71,"body":"the return on investment, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":387.11,"endTime":390.71,"body":"those sort of financial"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.01,"endTime":395.9,"body":"measurables. But, but value is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":391.01,"endTime":395.9,"body":"much more than that, and it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":395.96,"endTime":399.68,"body":"includes many other factors,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":395.96,"endTime":399.68,"body":"there's a social value, the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":399.68,"endTime":404.0,"body":"value of providing a, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":399.68,"endTime":404.0,"body":"for a social need, things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.0,"endTime":409.16,"body":"democratisation, you know,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":404.0,"endTime":409.16,"body":"allowing people access to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":409.19,"endTime":412.46,"body":"products or services that they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":409.19,"endTime":412.46,"body":"couldn't have them before, of"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":412.46,"endTime":415.79,"body":"course, the environmental"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":412.46,"endTime":415.79,"body":"values, the impact you're having"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":415.79,"endTime":421.79,"body":"on the environment. And there's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":415.79,"endTime":421.79,"body":"also value in things like"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.79,"endTime":425.57,"body":"aesthetics, and how good things"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":421.79,"endTime":425.57,"body":"feel, and work and how"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.57,"endTime":430.91,"body":"comfortable people are in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":425.57,"endTime":430.91,"body":"working in places or working"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":430.91,"endTime":435.71,"body":"through processes. And then on"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":430.91,"endTime":435.71,"body":"top of that, there's what do you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.71,"endTime":440.03,"body":"what can you gain? we often call"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":435.71,"endTime":440.03,"body":"it the value from doing what can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.03,"endTime":444.56,"body":"you gain from the process"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":440.03,"endTime":444.56,"body":"itself? Can people can people"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.59,"endTime":447.38,"body":"what can they learn? What can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":444.59,"endTime":447.38,"body":"they be educated on how can they"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":447.74,"endTime":451.61,"body":"personally develop How can doing"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":447.74,"endTime":451.61,"body":"a particular project actually"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.61,"endTime":458.6,"body":"benefit the the people who are"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":451.61,"endTime":458.6,"body":"neighbours to the project. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.6,"endTime":460.88,"body":"so there's lots of value. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":458.6,"endTime":460.88,"body":"part of that is really"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.88,"endTime":465.29,"body":"understanding the value that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":460.88,"endTime":465.29,"body":"you're going to go after, when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.29,"endTime":468.74,"body":"you're on design to value. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":465.29,"endTime":468.74,"body":"then comes the modelling and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.74,"endTime":472.76,"body":"understanding of the processes,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":468.74,"endTime":472.76,"body":"which which are going to deliver"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.76,"endTime":476.66,"body":"those those value outcomes and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":472.76,"endTime":476.66,"body":"trying to find trying to find"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.66,"endTime":478.46,"body":"the optimum balance between"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":476.66,"endTime":478.46,"body":"them."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":479.77,"endTime":482.44,"body":"I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":479.77,"endTime":482.44,"body":"incredibly important, very"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":482.44,"endTime":485.92,"body":"pertinent the moment so I don't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":482.44,"endTime":485.92,"body":"think it's coincidence. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":485.92,"endTime":488.8,"body":"we've been talking about design"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":485.92,"endTime":488.8,"body":"to value for a couple years, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":488.83,"endTime":492.58,"body":"the Construction Innovation Hub"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":488.83,"endTime":492.58,"body":"recently published the value"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":492.58,"endTime":497.92,"body":"toolkit, for instance. And my"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":492.58,"endTime":497.92,"body":"perception is that whilst I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":497.92,"endTime":500.89,"body":"think the word value has been"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":497.92,"endTime":500.89,"body":"slightly debased in retail,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":501.52,"endTime":504.1,"body":"where it's associated with kind"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":501.52,"endTime":504.1,"body":"of value brands and cheapest"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":504.1,"endTime":506.95,"body":"product, I think that's because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":504.1,"endTime":506.95,"body":"retail has been doing this for a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":506.95,"endTime":509.35,"body":"long time. They're sort of in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":506.95,"endTime":509.35,"body":"the incremental gains phase,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":509.35,"endTime":512.11,"body":"whereas construction is nowhere"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":509.35,"endTime":512.11,"body":"near that. And I think for a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":512.11,"endTime":515.8,"body":"long time, yeah, we've been"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":512.11,"endTime":515.8,"body":"chasing capital cost, regardless"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":515.8,"endTime":518.53,"body":"of carbon outcomes, or maybe"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":515.8,"endTime":518.53,"body":"societal outcomes. I think we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":518.53,"endTime":521.59,"body":"been pursuing one metric. And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":518.53,"endTime":521.59,"body":"it's, it's led us into some,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":522.46,"endTime":523.99,"body":"yeah, some of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":522.46,"endTime":523.99,"body":"inefficiencies, we're now seeing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":523.99,"endTime":526.81,"body":"some of the climate issues were"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":523.99,"endTime":526.81,"body":"that we're now facing. So I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":526.81,"endTime":529.15,"body":"don't think it's coincidence"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":526.81,"endTime":529.15,"body":"that the conversation around"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":529.15,"endTime":533.32,"body":"value and broadening out the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":529.15,"endTime":533.32,"body":"outcomes that we expect to get"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":533.32,"endTime":537.43,"body":"from projects is incredibly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":533.32,"endTime":537.43,"body":"timely, and like, we really need"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":537.43,"endTime":540.07,"body":"to focus on it around this sort"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":537.43,"endTime":540.07,"body":"of thing for the next couple of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":540.07,"endTime":541.06,"body":"decades, at least."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":542.49,"endTime":545.79,"body":"And of course, your"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":542.49,"endTime":545.79,"body":"point, or one of the reasons why"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":545.79,"endTime":548.67,"body":"it's difficult is because it to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":545.79,"endTime":548.67,"body":"start with it isn't"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":548.94,"endTime":552.93,"body":"straightforward. It isn't just"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":548.94,"endTime":552.93,"body":"about taking a specification and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":552.93,"endTime":557.01,"body":"meeting a specification. It is"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":552.93,"endTime":557.01,"body":"about taking a broader view and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":557.01,"endTime":561.09,"body":"really trying to understand get"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":557.01,"endTime":561.09,"body":"under the skin of the client or"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":561.09,"endTime":565.02,"body":"the or the governmental society"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":561.09,"endTime":565.02,"body":"and understand what what's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":565.02,"endTime":569.34,"body":"really valuable there and then"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":565.02,"endTime":569.34,"body":"trying to decide what the best"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":569.34,"endTime":573.0,"body":"thing is, and what the best"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":569.34,"endTime":573.0,"body":"designers to achieve that it's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":573.0,"endTime":576.6,"body":"sort of much easier to just say,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":573.0,"endTime":576.6,"body":"well, that's what you wanted. So"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":576.6,"endTime":580.74,"body":"that's what we did. And this"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":576.6,"endTime":580.74,"body":"process requires you to be to be"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":580.74,"endTime":582.39,"body":"braver and more innovative."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":582.63,"endTime":585.45,"body":"Yeah. So maybe"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":582.63,"endTime":585.45,"body":"a good way to bring it to life"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":585.48,"endTime":589.56,"body":"is to contrast it's a normal"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":585.48,"endTime":589.56,"body":"design process, a normal sort of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":589.56,"endTime":591.78,"body":"linear stage by stage design"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":589.56,"endTime":591.78,"body":"process and explain what the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":591.78,"endTime":594.06,"body":"differences are when you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":591.78,"endTime":594.06,"body":"approach it in a different way."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":594.36,"endTime":597.84,"body":"Yeah, I suppose it's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":594.36,"endTime":597.84,"body":"quite quite interesting. The"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":597.84,"endTime":600.48,"body":"first thing is we talked about a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":597.84,"endTime":600.48,"body":"brief a couple of times Items"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":601.11,"endTime":606.09,"body":"already, it's almost like seeing"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":601.11,"endTime":606.09,"body":"a brief as a as a hypothesis, a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":606.09,"endTime":609.96,"body":"guess what it is that it's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":606.09,"endTime":609.96,"body":"required, and it gives you some"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":609.96,"endTime":613.59,"body":"insight into, into the problem"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":609.96,"endTime":613.59,"body":"that's trying to be solved. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":613.59,"endTime":617.34,"body":"then, and then it's about"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":613.59,"endTime":617.34,"body":"picking, picking that apart, the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":617.34,"endTime":620.7,"body":"best way I find of explaining it"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":617.34,"endTime":620.7,"body":"is to talk about one of the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":620.7,"endTime":624.78,"body":"first projects that we use"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":620.7,"endTime":624.78,"body":"design to value one for me,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":624.78,"endTime":628.32,"body":"which which really, sort of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":624.78,"endTime":628.32,"body":"brought home what it's all"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":628.32,"endTime":636.27,"body":"about. And it was a project for"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":628.32,"endTime":636.27,"body":"putting carbonated and soft"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":636.27,"endTime":640.56,"body":"drinks into Africa. And the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":636.27,"endTime":640.56,"body":"business had decided that he"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":640.56,"endTime":644.04,"body":"wanted to build a new factory in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":640.56,"endTime":644.04,"body":"a different part of Africa, in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":644.04,"endTime":648.66,"body":"order to manufacture some new"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":644.04,"endTime":648.66,"body":"products. And hopefully, because"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":648.66,"endTime":652.2,"body":"of the local manufacturer would"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":648.66,"endTime":652.2,"body":"grow the market. And this had"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":652.2,"endTime":655.5,"body":"been through a very traditional"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":652.2,"endTime":655.5,"body":"design process. So it gone out"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":655.5,"endTime":659.34,"body":"to a large engineering company,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":655.5,"endTime":659.34,"body":"they they, you know, spoken to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":659.34,"endTime":664.11,"body":"the client about the project,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":659.34,"endTime":664.11,"body":"and they came back and they came"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":664.11,"endTime":668.46,"body":"back with a 70 million pound"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":664.11,"endTime":668.46,"body":"factory. The only problem was,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":668.46,"endTime":672.48,"body":"is that 70 million pound factory"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":668.46,"endTime":672.48,"body":"didn't have any return on"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":672.48,"endTime":676.47,"body":"investment, it just wasn't"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":672.48,"endTime":676.47,"body":"financially viable. And the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":676.47,"endTime":679.62,"body":"immediate reaction, which often"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":676.47,"endTime":679.62,"body":"happens, then was was you've got"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":679.62,"endTime":683.34,"body":"to make it cheaper. So that you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":679.62,"endTime":683.34,"body":"know, 70 million pounds far too"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":683.34,"endTime":686.07,"body":"expensive, other people, other"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":683.34,"endTime":686.07,"body":"people could build it cheaper,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":686.07,"endTime":691.32,"body":"go and find a way to build it"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":686.07,"endTime":691.32,"body":"cheaper. And in fact, we did do"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":691.32,"endTime":696.42,"body":"that process. So So we looked at"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":691.32,"endTime":696.42,"body":"the the overall size of the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":696.42,"endTime":699.9,"body":"factory and optimised it and we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":696.42,"endTime":699.9,"body":"looked at the construction"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":699.9,"endTime":703.65,"body":"techniques and, and reduce the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":699.9,"endTime":703.65,"body":"complexity of those. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":703.65,"endTime":707.61,"body":"ultimately, I think we took 17"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":703.65,"endTime":707.61,"body":"million pounds out of the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":707.61,"endTime":710.91,"body":"capital cost which, which was"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":707.61,"endTime":710.91,"body":"great, but it still didn't make"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":710.91,"endTime":716.49,"body":"financial sense. In parallel to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":710.91,"endTime":716.49,"body":"that, we started to ask the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":716.49,"endTime":721.05,"body":"question about about the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":716.49,"endTime":721.05,"body":"financial viability and why it"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":721.05,"endTime":726.21,"body":"wasn't financially value viable."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":721.05,"endTime":726.21,"body":"And we modelled we started to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":726.21,"endTime":731.31,"body":"model the the products that were"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":726.21,"endTime":731.31,"body":"going through it, and the costs"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":731.34,"endTime":735.51,"body":"of those products, how much it"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":731.34,"endTime":735.51,"body":"costs, to produce the energy"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":735.51,"endTime":739.2,"body":"that went into them, the raw"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":735.51,"endTime":739.2,"body":"materials, and how much it costs"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":739.2,"endTime":742.56,"body":"to build the particular part of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":739.2,"endTime":742.56,"body":"the facility and the equipment"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":742.56,"endTime":746.4,"body":"to make each stage of the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":742.56,"endTime":746.4,"body":"production. And from that we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":746.4,"endTime":750.57,"body":"found this really interesting"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":746.4,"endTime":750.57,"body":"fact that the one of the main"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":750.57,"endTime":753.9,"body":"products that they were going to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":750.57,"endTime":753.9,"body":"make in this is new factory,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":754.77,"endTime":758.13,"body":"which was bottled water was"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":754.77,"endTime":758.13,"body":"actually going to be"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":758.19,"endTime":762.27,"body":"unprofitable because there was"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":758.19,"endTime":762.27,"body":"high energy costs, and a low"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":762.27,"endTime":767.28,"body":"sale price for bottled water in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":762.27,"endTime":767.28,"body":"Africa. And it was it was that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":767.28,"endTime":770.79,"body":"product itself, not the whole"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":767.28,"endTime":770.79,"body":"factory and not the whole idea"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":771.21,"endTime":775.86,"body":"that was actually making making"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":771.21,"endTime":775.86,"body":"that that a non viable"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":775.86,"endTime":779.7,"body":"investment. And in fact, because"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":775.86,"endTime":779.7,"body":"of that it was decided not to do"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":779.7,"endTime":784.95,"body":"that project at all. That was a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":779.7,"endTime":784.95,"body":"really interesting process for"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":784.95,"endTime":788.4,"body":"me. And it also brings alive one"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":784.95,"endTime":788.4,"body":"of the uncomfortable truths of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":788.4,"endTime":792.63,"body":"this process is that you could"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":788.4,"endTime":792.63,"body":"conclude that not doing"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":792.63,"endTime":794.55,"body":"something is the most valuable"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":792.63,"endTime":794.55,"body":"thing."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":795.11,"endTime":797.96,"body":"You're gonna"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":795.11,"endTime":797.96,"body":"want to talk about three topics"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":797.96,"endTime":801.62,"body":"around this one is questions."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":797.96,"endTime":801.62,"body":"One is tools, and one is people."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":801.62,"endTime":805.22,"body":"So the The question is, why"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":801.62,"endTime":805.22,"body":"don't you raise this point? One"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":805.22,"endTime":808.07,"body":"of our directors, Steven Tilkin"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":805.22,"endTime":808.07,"body":"use the phrase which remember,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":808.46,"endTime":810.92,"body":"you say everyone else is trying"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":808.46,"endTime":810.92,"body":"to answer the question, can we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":810.92,"endTime":814.31,"body":"do this? And he's trying to ask"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":810.92,"endTime":814.31,"body":"the question, should we do this."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":814.37,"endTime":818.12,"body":"And that's a really good example"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":814.37,"endTime":818.12,"body":"of that, where maybe you can"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":818.12,"endTime":820.76,"body":"talk about we talk about opening"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":818.12,"endTime":820.76,"body":"up the solution space, or the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":820.76,"endTime":823.91,"body":"search space for ideas that we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":820.76,"endTime":823.91,"body":"don't become fixed too soon, we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":823.91,"endTime":827.03,"body":"start to open up the problem."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":823.91,"endTime":827.03,"body":"Before we get anywhere close to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":827.03,"endTime":829.31,"body":"trying to solve the problem. We"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":827.03,"endTime":829.31,"body":"try and define really what the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":829.31,"endTime":830.78,"body":"problem is. Can you talk a bit"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":829.31,"endTime":830.78,"body":"about that?"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.47,"endTime":834.08,"body":"Yeah, so I mean, I"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":831.47,"endTime":834.08,"body":"mean, some good way to think"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.08,"endTime":838.4,"body":"about a project is that it has a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":834.08,"endTime":838.4,"body":"problem space and a solution"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.4,"endTime":843.89,"body":"space. And if you look at"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":838.4,"endTime":843.89,"body":"traditional ways of working,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.07,"endTime":847.67,"body":"people spend all their time in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":844.07,"endTime":847.67,"body":"the solution space, as if, as if"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.67,"endTime":850.76,"body":"the problem is absolutely"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":847.67,"endTime":850.76,"body":"understood and set, and very"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":850.76,"endTime":854.39,"body":"clear when everybody knows"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":850.76,"endTime":854.39,"body":"what's required. And all that's"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":854.39,"endTime":858.35,"body":"required is a solution to meet"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":854.39,"endTime":858.35,"body":"that outcome. The more we worked"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.35,"endTime":861.35,"body":"in this area, the more we"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":858.35,"endTime":861.35,"body":"realised that actually coming up"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.35,"endTime":866.27,"body":"with the proper problem space"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":861.35,"endTime":866.27,"body":"and really understanding what"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.27,"endTime":870.53,"body":"what the problem is to be fixed."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":866.27,"endTime":870.53,"body":"And then and then from that,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.56,"endTime":875.42,"body":"then looking at the particular"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":870.56,"endTime":875.42,"body":"solutions to do it. The the the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.42,"endTime":878.93,"body":"better the outcome. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":875.42,"endTime":878.93,"body":"bit frustrating sometimes"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.93,"endTime":883.31,"body":"because people just want you to"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":878.93,"endTime":883.31,"body":"get on. And rather than ask lots"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.31,"endTime":887.06,"body":"of questions, and but but as"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":883.31,"endTime":887.06,"body":"we've we've done this a number"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.06,"endTime":891.59,"body":"of times you realise that there"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":887.06,"endTime":891.59,"body":"are some much better solutions"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.59,"endTime":896.06,"body":"out there than the ones that"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":891.59,"endTime":896.06,"body":"fall into people's minds. 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And then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":925.31,"endTime":928.43,"body":"picking at some of the ideas"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":925.31,"endTime":928.43,"body":"around that,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":928.87,"endTime":930.67,"body":"yes, like so"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":928.87,"endTime":930.67,"body":"many of these things, it comes"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":930.67,"endTime":933.55,"body":"down to people. So I'm gonna"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":930.67,"endTime":933.55,"body":"leave that one to last. But in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":933.55,"endTime":936.55,"body":"terms of tools, I mean, you've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":933.55,"endTime":936.55,"body":"mentioned modelling, we use, I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":936.55,"endTime":940.03,"body":"think, quite a vast range of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":936.55,"endTime":940.03,"body":"different tools and techniques"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":940.03,"endTime":943.66,"body":"from data analytics, discrete"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":940.03,"endTime":943.66,"body":"event simulation, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":943.66,"endTime":946.54,"body":"there's a whole range of digital"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":943.66,"endTime":946.54,"body":"techniques, perhaps you can talk"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":946.54,"endTime":948.49,"body":"about some of those and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":946.54,"endTime":948.49,"body":"particularly Chip Thinking,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":948.49,"endTime":953.14,"body":"which are described as quite a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":948.49,"endTime":953.14,"body":"sticky concept, once clients"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":953.14,"endTime":955.57,"body":"have understood Chip Thinking"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":953.14,"endTime":955.57,"body":"they really understand the power"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":955.57,"endTime":959.02,"body":"of, you know, how this helping"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":955.57,"endTime":959.02,"body":"them think about projects."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.05,"endTime":963.11,"body":"Yeah, so I'll start"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":960.05,"endTime":963.11,"body":"talking about Chip Thinking,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.11,"endTime":968.39,"body":"because because Chip Thinking"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":963.11,"endTime":968.39,"body":"came out of the idea that you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.39,"endTime":972.89,"body":"wanted to be able to link"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":968.39,"endTime":972.89,"body":"different datasets together when"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.89,"endTime":977.39,"body":"you are modelling. So people do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":972.89,"endTime":977.39,"body":"often model do financial models,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.39,"endTime":981.5,"body":"but that tends to sit in the in"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":977.39,"endTime":981.5,"body":"the finance department, and no"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.5,"endTime":984.38,"body":"one else can see what's going"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":981.5,"endTime":984.38,"body":"on. And then you have the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.38,"endTime":988.34,"body":"engineers designing, specifying"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":984.38,"endTime":988.34,"body":"equipment and designing things,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.34,"endTime":992.3,"body":"but they do that in their"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":988.34,"endTime":992.3,"body":"engineering office. And then you"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.3,"endTime":995.27,"body":"have people who who do"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":992.3,"endTime":995.27,"body":"understand the overall process"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.27,"endTime":998.27,"body":"and the logistics, but they are,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":995.27,"endTime":998.27,"body":"again, separate from one"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.27,"endTime":1002.68,"body":"another. So Chip Thinking is"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":998.27,"endTime":1002.68,"body":"quite a simple methodology, but"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.89,"endTime":1007.75,"body":"it's huge power is it brings"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1002.89,"endTime":1007.75,"body":"all, all parties together. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.75,"endTime":1013.33,"body":"what it does really is look at a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1007.75,"endTime":1013.33,"body":"process from end to end, it can"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.33,"endTime":1016.12,"body":"be a manufacturing process, or"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1013.33,"endTime":1016.12,"body":"as we talked about before, it"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.12,"endTime":1021.52,"body":"can be a people process like a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1016.12,"endTime":1021.52,"body":"hospital. And what you do then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1021.52,"endTime":1026.29,"body":"is you break that into spaces"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1021.52,"endTime":1026.29,"body":"where where you know, key parts"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.29,"endTime":1030.16,"body":"of value are added to the"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1026.29,"endTime":1030.16,"body":"process. So that might be a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.16,"endTime":1034.03,"body":"manufacturing step in a factory,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1030.16,"endTime":1034.03,"body":"but it could be in an airport,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1034.24,"endTime":1037.78,"body":"you know, the security check."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1034.24,"endTime":1037.78,"body":"That's a that's the thing, and"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1037.78,"endTime":1040.9,"body":"we call those chips. And"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1037.78,"endTime":1040.9,"body":"basically, if you imagine, then"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.9,"endTime":1046.09,"body":"our process, what he does is a"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1040.9,"endTime":1046.09,"body":"strung together, flow of th"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1046.09,"endTime":1049.66,"body":"se chips together. 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And if you co"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.88,"endTime":1087.01,"body":"bine that sort of tool with so"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1081.88,"endTime":1087.01,"body":"e of the other things you ta"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.01,"endTime":1090.1,"body":"ked about, like discrete ev"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1087.01,"endTime":1090.1,"body":"nt modelling, which is de"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.58,"endTime":1095.47,"body":"ailed and dynamic process mo"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1090.58,"endTime":1095.47,"body":"elling, so so you know, where wh"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1095.5,"endTime":1098.59,"body":"re goods would move, how pe"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1095.5,"endTime":1098.59,"body":"ple would move on how long it wo"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.59,"endTime":1102.79,"body":"ld take them to do each step. An"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1098.59,"endTime":1102.79,"body":"then introducing things like na"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.79,"endTime":1106.54,"body":"ural variation into that gets yo"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1102.79,"endTime":1106.54,"body":"to really starting to un"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.54,"endTime":1111.85,"body":"erstand how, how the process mi"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1106.54,"endTime":1111.85,"body":"ht work. And they'll start to ma"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.85,"endTime":1116.05,"body":"e some really good design de"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1111.85,"endTime":1116.05,"body":"isions about how how you can he"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1116.05,"endTime":1119.59,"body":"p those processes flow and ac"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":1116.05,"endTime":1119.59,"body":"ieve their outcomes better."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1122.09,"body":"But it also"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1122.09,"body":"allows you to test things very,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1122.09,"endTime":1124.61,"body":"very quickly. So we talked about"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1122.09,"endTime":1124.61,"body":"rapid iteration, the idea you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1124.61,"endTime":1127.16,"body":"can model something in chips and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1124.61,"endTime":1127.16,"body":"see the outcome go back, try"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1127.16,"endTime":1130.64,"body":"another idea. So rather than do"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1127.16,"endTime":1130.64,"body":"a sort of fixed, you know, two"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1130.64,"endTime":1133.13,"body":"months of design submitted to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1130.64,"endTime":1133.13,"body":"the client get their comments"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1133.13,"endTime":1137.42,"body":"back, you know, we're iterating"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1133.13,"endTime":1137.42,"body":"in days hours, you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1137.42,"endTime":1139.91,"body":"much, much quicker, much more"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1137.42,"endTime":1139.91,"body":"reactive process, isn't it?"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1140.66,"endTime":1143.57,"body":"No, absolutely. I"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1140.66,"endTime":1143.57,"body":"mean, we had, you know, projects"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1143.57,"endTime":1150.08,"body":"with with 30 to 40 options in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1143.57,"endTime":1150.08,"body":"them. And that's not laborious,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1150.08,"endTime":1153.95,"body":"because the the whole sort of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1150.08,"endTime":1153.95,"body":"structure of the of the chips"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1153.95,"endTime":1162.05,"body":"allows you to, it's almost like"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1153.95,"endTime":1162.05,"body":"a game a set of game cards. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1162.05,"endTime":1164.78,"body":"once you've Once you've created"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1162.05,"endTime":1164.78,"body":"them, you can put them down in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1164.78,"endTime":1169.37,"body":"different orders and you can"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1164.78,"endTime":1169.37,"body":"test out different scenarios and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1169.37,"endTime":1172.64,"body":"the modelling can follow you and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1169.37,"endTime":1172.64,"body":"so you can really start to hone"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1172.64,"endTime":1177.89,"body":"in on where the interesting"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1172.64,"endTime":1177.89,"body":"interesting places are. It's a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1177.89,"endTime":1182.12,"body":"bit like people say this bit"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1177.89,"endTime":1182.12,"body":"like set sending lighting up a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1182.12,"endTime":1185.72,"body":"cave really and looking for"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1182.12,"endTime":1185.72,"body":"looking for the gold in a cave."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1185.96,"endTime":1188.72,"body":"The more that you can light it"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1185.96,"endTime":1188.72,"body":"the more options and more"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1188.72,"endTime":1192.02,"body":"corners that you can, you can"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1188.72,"endTime":1192.02,"body":"look into the more chance you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1192.02,"endTime":1194.36,"body":"have of finding finding gold."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1194.72,"endTime":1197.03,"body":"Yeah. But then"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1194.72,"endTime":1197.03,"body":"at the invocation of that and it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1197.03,"endTime":1200.87,"body":"takes us to the people question."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1197.03,"endTime":1200.87,"body":"We started recognised the speed"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1200.87,"endTime":1203.51,"body":"of iteration was so fast that we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1200.87,"endTime":1203.51,"body":"almost had to have the client in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1203.51,"endTime":1207.98,"body":"the room. So that then started"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1203.51,"endTime":1207.98,"body":"the this culture of colo spaces,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1207.98,"endTime":1211.22,"body":"collaborative spaces, blended"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1207.98,"endTime":1211.22,"body":"teams physically working. So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1211.22,"endTime":1214.58,"body":"perhaps you can talk about, you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1211.22,"endTime":1214.58,"body":"talk about conceptually how"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1214.58,"endTime":1216.56,"body":"chips sort of brought in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1214.58,"endTime":1216.56,"body":"people's thinking. But then we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1216.56,"endTime":1219.62,"body":"started to say, Well, actually,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1216.56,"endTime":1219.62,"body":"let's physically have people co"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1219.62,"endTime":1221.66,"body":"working on the problem"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1219.62,"endTime":1221.66,"body":"simultaneously. And that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1221.9,"endTime":1226.1,"body":"completely changed the dynamic"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1221.9,"endTime":1226.1,"body":"between customer and designer"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1226.13,"endTime":1228.56,"body":"people's interaction with the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1226.13,"endTime":1228.56,"body":"project people engagement,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1228.59,"endTime":1229.91,"body":"perhaps you can that you can"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1228.59,"endTime":1229.91,"body":"expand on that."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1231.64,"endTime":1236.38,"body":"Yeah, I mean, a lot"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1231.64,"endTime":1236.38,"body":"of a lot of processes are done"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1236.38,"endTime":1241.57,"body":"at arm's length in design. So,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1236.38,"endTime":1241.57,"body":"you know, we talked about brief"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1241.57,"endTime":1244.42,"body":"and specifications that are"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1241.57,"endTime":1244.42,"body":"passed, and then, and then"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1244.42,"endTime":1249.94,"body":"someone responds to those in a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1244.42,"endTime":1249.94,"body":"tender or responds to them in a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1250.12,"endTime":1254.32,"body":"written document. And that's,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1250.12,"endTime":1254.32,"body":"that's consuming, but but you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1254.32,"endTime":1259.27,"body":"miss the huge value of bringing"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1254.32,"endTime":1259.27,"body":"people together, who all have"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1259.27,"endTime":1264.25,"body":"ideas, and all have good ideas."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1259.27,"endTime":1264.25,"body":"And if you can bring them"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1264.25,"endTime":1267.94,"body":"together with their desires in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1264.25,"endTime":1267.94,"body":"it, if you can bring them"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1267.94,"endTime":1272.41,"body":"together with their ideas and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1267.94,"endTime":1272.41,"body":"insights, you can find, you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1272.41,"endTime":1276.46,"body":"know, really new, and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1272.41,"endTime":1276.46,"body":"potentially, you know, exciting"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1276.46,"endTime":1280.72,"body":"possibilities. But but it that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1276.46,"endTime":1280.72,"body":"completely changes the dynamic,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1280.75,"endTime":1285.1,"body":"it means that what you've got to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1280.75,"endTime":1285.1,"body":"try and encourage is people to,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1285.34,"endTime":1289.87,"body":"to work together on on sort of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1285.34,"endTime":1289.87,"body":"an equal power base. So it isn't"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1290.11,"endTime":1294.73,"body":"client, just telling, telling"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1290.11,"endTime":1294.73,"body":"the supplier what he wants, it's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1294.73,"endTime":1298.24,"body":"about, about the client trying"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1294.73,"endTime":1298.24,"body":"to explain what they're trying"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1298.24,"endTime":1302.08,"body":"to achieve, and, and what they"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1298.24,"endTime":1302.08,"body":"know about their business at the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1302.08,"endTime":1305.62,"body":"moment, because they'll know a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1302.08,"endTime":1305.62,"body":"lot and what they're very good"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1305.62,"endTime":1309.31,"body":"at doing, because they will have"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1305.62,"endTime":1309.31,"body":"some core competencies, but also"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1309.31,"endTime":1313.36,"body":"saying, Yeah, but we don't know"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1309.31,"endTime":1313.36,"body":"how to do this bit. Or maybe you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1313.36,"endTime":1319.06,"body":"do, and you can bring, bring"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1313.36,"endTime":1319.06,"body":"your expertise to bear. And also"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1319.06,"endTime":1322.3,"body":"explain there are things that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1319.06,"endTime":1322.3,"body":"neither of us at the moment need"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1322.75,"endTime":1325.93,"body":"to know how to do this, there's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1322.75,"endTime":1325.93,"body":"some bravery in this because in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1326.11,"endTime":1329.53,"body":"past processes, they're sort of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1326.11,"endTime":1329.53,"body":"everyone pretends that they know"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1329.53,"endTime":1333.64,"body":"everything. And that pretence is"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1329.53,"endTime":1333.64,"body":"really dangerous, because lots"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1333.64,"endTime":1336.76,"body":"of assumptions are made. This"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1333.64,"endTime":1336.76,"body":"process invites people to say,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1337.51,"endTime":1340.36,"body":"we want to do this, but we don't"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1337.51,"endTime":1340.36,"body":"really know how to do it. But if"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1340.39,"endTime":1343.69,"body":"we're really sure that if we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1340.39,"endTime":1343.69,"body":"work together, we'll find we'll"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1343.69,"endTime":1346.87,"body":"find the best solution. So"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1343.69,"endTime":1346.87,"body":"requires that I just want to say"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1346.87,"endTime":1350.17,"body":"that, that we originally thought"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1346.87,"endTime":1350.17,"body":"that being together physically"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1350.17,"endTime":1354.31,"body":"was really important. And, and,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1350.17,"endTime":1354.31,"body":"and it was, it was important for"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1354.31,"endTime":1357.16,"body":"us to start with, because when"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1354.31,"endTime":1357.16,"body":"you're trying to do something"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1357.16,"endTime":1361.75,"body":"new, you need to step them"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1357.16,"endTime":1361.75,"body":"outside of their, their normal"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1361.75,"endTime":1365.77,"body":"workplace, because because that,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1361.75,"endTime":1365.77,"body":"you know, being in a corporate"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1365.77,"endTime":1369.76,"body":"office makes you feel corporate,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1365.77,"endTime":1369.76,"body":"and makes you do the corporate"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1369.76,"endTime":1373.93,"body":"things. Whereas being being in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1369.76,"endTime":1373.93,"body":"a, in a in a more interesting"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1373.93,"endTime":1377.17,"body":"design office makes you feel"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1373.93,"endTime":1377.17,"body":"more liberated and design"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1377.17,"endTime":1381.31,"body":"focused. And but what we've also"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1377.17,"endTime":1381.31,"body":"found is, is you can do, you can"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1381.31,"endTime":1383.86,"body":"do many of these things using"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1381.31,"endTime":1383.86,"body":"tools and techniques and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1383.86,"endTime":1387.58,"body":"approaches remotely. And in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1383.86,"endTime":1387.58,"body":"fact, there's some benefits to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1387.58,"endTime":1391.9,"body":"the remote remoteness, because"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1387.58,"endTime":1391.9,"body":"it it gives people much more"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1391.9,"endTime":1397.27,"body":"equal status. And and equal"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1391.9,"endTime":1397.27,"body":"status is key to this"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1397.27,"endTime":1398.26,"body":"collaboration."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1399.89,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"Yeah, it's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1399.89,"endTime":1400.94,"body":"gonna be interesting I one of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1400.94,"endTime":1404.33,"body":"the things I miss most about the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1400.94,"endTime":1404.33,"body":"office. So for listeners, we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1404.33,"endTime":1408.92,"body":"started moving GlaxoSmithKline"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1404.33,"endTime":1408.92,"body":"people into the office, we gave"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1408.92,"endTime":1411.59,"body":"them free space to work from"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1408.92,"endTime":1411.59,"body":"from one of our floors in the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1411.59,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"office. And we'd formed these"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1411.59,"endTime":1414.38,"body":"blended teams with us and Glaxo"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1414.38,"endTime":1417.26,"body":"people and some of our"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1414.38,"endTime":1417.26,"body":"competitors, even subject matter"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1417.26,"endTime":1420.92,"body":"experts. And then other clients"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1417.26,"endTime":1420.92,"body":"started saying, well, when do I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1420.92,"endTime":1424.46,"body":"get my space, and so we had one"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1420.92,"endTime":1424.46,"body":"entire floor of the office was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1424.58,"endTime":1427.55,"body":"was pure colo space. And it was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1424.58,"endTime":1427.55,"body":"a shifting cast of characters."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1427.55,"endTime":1430.16,"body":"It might be Ministry of Justice"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1427.55,"endTime":1430.16,"body":"for a few months, it might be"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1430.16,"endTime":1433.04,"body":"Landsec, for for a few months,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1430.16,"endTime":1433.04,"body":"it was a company changing, but"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1433.97,"endTime":1438.29,"body":"that sort of dynamic feeling of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1433.97,"endTime":1438.29,"body":"you know, people running into"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1438.29,"endTime":1440.18,"body":"each other. I remember one of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1438.29,"endTime":1440.18,"body":"the things I used to do was was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1440.18,"endTime":1442.76,"body":"if he had a potential new"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1440.18,"endTime":1442.76,"body":"client, I would stop you in the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1442.76,"endTime":1445.46,"body":"corridor and get you to take"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1442.76,"endTime":1445.46,"body":"them for coffee. That kind of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1445.46,"endTime":1448.52,"body":"serendipitous thing you can't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1445.46,"endTime":1448.52,"body":"create any more. So yeah, as you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1448.52,"endTime":1450.8,"body":"say, there's benefits to working"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1448.52,"endTime":1450.8,"body":"remotely. But I do miss the kind"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1450.8,"endTime":1454.88,"body":"of buzz of it. I've seen this in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1450.8,"endTime":1454.88,"body":"action on that floor. And as he"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1454.88,"endTime":1458.24,"body":"said, I think one of the really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1454.88,"endTime":1458.24,"body":"interesting things of people not"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1458.24,"endTime":1461.93,"body":"being able to tell, who was a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1458.24,"endTime":1461.93,"body":"client who was a designer who"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1461.93,"endTime":1464.42,"body":"was a subject matter expert, I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1461.93,"endTime":1464.42,"body":"thought that gave it a real kind"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1464.42,"endTime":1468.74,"body":"of Yeah, as you say, kind of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1464.42,"endTime":1468.74,"body":"democratise the process to kind"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1468.74,"endTime":1471.05,"body":"of level the playing field and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1468.74,"endTime":1471.05,"body":"everyone had almost an equal"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1471.05,"endTime":1473.48,"body":"voice. So we're obviously we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1471.05,"endTime":1473.48,"body":"still working through that. But"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1473.93,"endTime":1475.61,"body":"yeah, that was one of the most"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1473.93,"endTime":1475.61,"body":"exciting things about the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1475.61,"endTime":1476.42,"body":"process. I always thought."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1477.59,"endTime":1480.47,"body":"Yeah, and you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1477.59,"endTime":1480.47,"body":"mentioned both an excitement and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1480.47,"endTime":1485.06,"body":"I think that that is something"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1480.47,"endTime":1485.06,"body":"we really noticed about doing"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1485.09,"endTime":1489.53,"body":"during design to value in this"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1485.09,"endTime":1489.53,"body":"way, is people really enjoyed"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1489.53,"endTime":1493.85,"body":"it. And projects, you know, can"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1489.53,"endTime":1493.85,"body":"be really miserable places. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1493.85,"endTime":1496.13,"body":"I have, you know, been in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1493.85,"endTime":1496.13,"body":"project management for a long"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1496.13,"endTime":1499.46,"body":"time. I'm, you know, I'm always"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1496.13,"endTime":1499.46,"body":"dismayed about how miserable"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1499.7,"endTime":1502.16,"body":"people In projects, they seem"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1499.7,"endTime":1502.16,"body":"really hard. And actually,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1502.16,"endTime":1506.66,"body":"they're really exciting things"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1502.16,"endTime":1506.66,"body":"or projects you're trying to,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1506.87,"endTime":1510.29,"body":"you know, make a step change in,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1506.87,"endTime":1510.29,"body":"in, in whatever you're working"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1510.29,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"in. And if you're working in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1510.29,"endTime":1515.36,"body":"hospitals or, or technology or"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1515.36,"endTime":1518.57,"body":"the environment, you're making"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1515.36,"endTime":1518.57,"body":"step, changes in those things"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1518.57,"endTime":1522.56,"body":"that should be an exciting place"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1518.57,"endTime":1522.56,"body":"to work. And design to value"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1522.56,"endTime":1526.4,"body":"part of it is to capture that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1522.56,"endTime":1526.4,"body":"that excitement that, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1526.46,"endTime":1530.81,"body":"the possibility that we could do"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1526.46,"endTime":1530.81,"body":"something special there, every"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1530.84,"endTime":1534.35,"body":"every time. And that's why we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1530.84,"endTime":1534.35,"body":"started to use words like"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1534.35,"endTime":1538.85,"body":"exquisite design, because we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1534.35,"endTime":1538.85,"body":"wanted to impart in people the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1538.85,"endTime":1543.44,"body":"excitement and the potential of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1538.85,"endTime":1543.44,"body":"bringing everyone's ideas and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1543.44,"endTime":1547.28,"body":"everyone's knowledge together"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1543.44,"endTime":1547.28,"body":"and creating, creating special"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1547.49,"endTime":1551.87,"body":"outcomes. That very different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1547.49,"endTime":1551.87,"body":"from from what the normal"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1551.87,"endTime":1554.0,"body":"processes would encourage people"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1551.87,"endTime":1554.0,"body":"to do."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1554.51,"endTime":1556.85,"body":"Yeah. And yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1554.51,"endTime":1556.85,"body":"I mean, the outcomes are vast,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1556.85,"endTime":1558.86,"body":"the benefits are vast, can you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1556.85,"endTime":1558.86,"body":"talk about some of the projects,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1558.86,"endTime":1562.19,"body":"so maybe Parma, Factory in a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1558.86,"endTime":1562.19,"body":"Box, some of the impacts this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1562.19,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"this approach had on those"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1562.19,"endTime":1563.84,"body":"projects?"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1564.02,"endTime":1567.68,"body":"Yeah, so the Parma"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1564.02,"endTime":1567.68,"body":"project was to make a drug"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1567.68,"endTime":1570.77,"body":"called an attachment inhibitor."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1567.68,"endTime":1570.77,"body":"And in itself, that's a really"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1570.77,"endTime":1576.14,"body":"valuable, with a really valuable"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1570.77,"endTime":1576.14,"body":"thing to do. The attachment"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1576.14,"endTime":1581.39,"body":"inhibitor is a drug that treats"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1576.14,"endTime":1581.39,"body":"people who are suffering from"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1581.42,"endTime":1587.96,"body":"HIV, AIDS, and the and the other"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1581.42,"endTime":1587.96,"body":"drugs are no longer working for"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1587.96,"endTime":1590.93,"body":"them. So there's a small"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1587.96,"endTime":1590.93,"body":"percentage of people on"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1590.93,"endTime":1595.79,"body":"traditional treatments, which"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1590.93,"endTime":1595.79,"body":"are much better these days, who"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1595.79,"endTime":1598.49,"body":"no longer will their treatments"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1595.79,"endTime":1598.49,"body":"be working for them. So they're,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1598.49,"endTime":1602.87,"body":"they're facing quite a bleak"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1598.49,"endTime":1602.87,"body":"future. And this drug has been"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1602.87,"endTime":1607.22,"body":"found, which, which can help a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1602.87,"endTime":1607.22,"body":"large number of those people."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1608.3,"endTime":1612.02,"body":"And GlaxoSmithKline wanted to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1608.3,"endTime":1612.02,"body":"get it to market as quickly as"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1612.02,"endTime":1616.91,"body":"possible it was in, in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1612.02,"endTime":1616.91,"body":"development. And this is an"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1616.91,"endTime":1622.28,"body":"important point about design to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1616.91,"endTime":1622.28,"body":"value is it sort of loves, loves"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1622.28,"endTime":1625.88,"body":"it when things aren't clear. So"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1622.28,"endTime":1625.88,"body":"when you're trying to accelerate"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1625.91,"endTime":1629.93,"body":"a product to market, what you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1625.91,"endTime":1629.93,"body":"don't want to do is is too early"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1629.93,"endTime":1633.35,"body":"is to tie everything down,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1629.93,"endTime":1633.35,"body":"because you'll be wrong. During"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1633.35,"endTime":1636.02,"body":"the development process,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1633.35,"endTime":1636.02,"body":"something will come out which is"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1636.02,"endTime":1638.69,"body":"unexpected, and, and that and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1636.02,"endTime":1638.69,"body":"that will, if you're not"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1638.69,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"careful, that will really impact"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1638.69,"endTime":1642.11,"body":"your outcome. So you've got to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1645.95,"body":"be flexible, and you've got to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1642.11,"endTime":1645.95,"body":"work closely together. So we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1645.95,"endTime":1651.74,"body":"worked very closely with GSK the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1645.95,"endTime":1651.74,"body":"client, but also the the local"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1651.74,"endTime":1655.49,"body":"designer and construction"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1651.74,"endTime":1655.49,"body":"companies, we fast tracked the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1655.52,"endTime":1660.08,"body":"design process. But using chips"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1655.52,"endTime":1660.08,"body":"allowed us to make sure that we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1660.08,"endTime":1663.92,"body":"created the space for the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1660.08,"endTime":1663.92,"body":"process, while not completely"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1663.92,"endTime":1668.81,"body":"understanding what it would be"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1663.92,"endTime":1668.81,"body":"till later in the day. And also"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1668.81,"endTime":1673.07,"body":"the modelling. processes, the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1668.81,"endTime":1673.07,"body":"structural modelling in this"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1673.07,"endTime":1677.09,"body":"case allowed us to, to simplify"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1673.07,"endTime":1677.09,"body":"the building in order to make"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1677.09,"endTime":1682.7,"body":"sure that we could hit a much"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1677.09,"endTime":1682.7,"body":"quicker timescales. And that for"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1682.7,"endTime":1686.69,"body":"that project from, I think"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1682.7,"endTime":1686.69,"body":"feasibility to to product coming"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1686.69,"endTime":1689.57,"body":"out of the door was about 18"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1686.69,"endTime":1689.57,"body":"months. Of course, the facility"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1689.57,"endTime":1694.19,"body":"went on award from the ISP"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1689.57,"endTime":1694.19,"body":"facility of the year"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1694.0,"endTime":1697.24,"body":"Can you talk"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1694.0,"endTime":1697.24,"body":"about maybe Factory in a Box"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1697.87,"endTime":1701.29,"body":"because I think that was quite"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1697.87,"endTime":1701.29,"body":"an interesting physical"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1701.29,"endTime":1703.39,"body":"manifestation and some of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1701.29,"endTime":1703.39,"body":"benefits that came that came out"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1703.39,"endTime":1705.64,"body":"of developing that DfMA"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1703.39,"endTime":1705.64,"body":"solution."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1707.37,"endTime":1709.98,"body":"Yes, so Factory in a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1707.37,"endTime":1709.98,"body":"Box, so people people are"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1709.98,"endTime":1712.86,"body":"fascinated Because ultimately,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1709.98,"endTime":1712.86,"body":"it was a pharmaceutical"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1712.86,"endTime":1716.13,"body":"secondary factory. That was that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1712.86,"endTime":1716.13,"body":"when we first tested, it was"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1716.13,"endTime":1720.54,"body":"built with Gurkhas, and it"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1716.13,"endTime":1720.54,"body":"raised, it raised a lot of of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1720.54,"endTime":1725.07,"body":"interest because of that, that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1720.54,"endTime":1725.07,"body":"story. But behind that was"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1725.07,"endTime":1728.73,"body":"something was something really"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1725.07,"endTime":1728.73,"body":"quite, quite special. I mean,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1728.73,"endTime":1735.87,"body":"first of all, it was a problem"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1728.73,"endTime":1735.87,"body":"for a large business, about how"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1735.87,"endTime":1741.57,"body":"it could build quickly cost"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1735.87,"endTime":1741.57,"body":"effectively, but also very high"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1741.57,"endTime":1745.89,"body":"quality facilities in in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1741.57,"endTime":1745.89,"body":"emerging markets, whether the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1745.89,"endTime":1750.06,"body":"local capability was very"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1745.89,"endTime":1750.06,"body":"variable to how how might you do"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1750.06,"endTime":1755.7,"body":"that? And secondly, as well, and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1750.06,"endTime":1755.7,"body":"talking about the value of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1756.03,"endTime":1759.42,"body":"through doing the project is how"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1756.03,"endTime":1759.42,"body":"could you use that investment"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1759.78,"endTime":1765.48,"body":"directly to improve skills and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1759.78,"endTime":1765.48,"body":"build capability in the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1765.48,"endTime":1770.28,"body":"locations that you're building"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1765.48,"endTime":1770.28,"body":"the factories. And from that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1770.28,"endTime":1774.27,"body":"problem came this idea that we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1770.28,"endTime":1774.27,"body":"could using components which are"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1774.27,"endTime":1777.84,"body":"readily, largely readily"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1774.27,"endTime":1777.84,"body":"available in the supply chain"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1777.84,"endTime":1781.35,"body":"already, but bringing them"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1777.84,"endTime":1781.35,"body":"together in a in a simple and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1781.35,"endTime":1786.81,"body":"clever way. We could, we could"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1781.35,"endTime":1786.81,"body":"produce factories using not"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1786.81,"endTime":1790.2,"body":"people who had loads of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1786.81,"endTime":1790.2,"body":"experience in construction, but"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1790.23,"endTime":1794.58,"body":"but local competent people who"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1790.23,"endTime":1794.58,"body":"weren't necessarily have any"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1794.58,"endTime":1797.49,"body":"skills in construction, but just"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1794.58,"endTime":1797.49,"body":"were competent. And you could"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1797.49,"endTime":1800.4,"body":"meet all the quality"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1797.49,"endTime":1800.4,"body":"requirements that were acquired."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1801.66,"endTime":1806.61,"body":"And we tested that using using"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1801.66,"endTime":1806.61,"body":"expert soldiers because they,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1806.85,"endTime":1810.54,"body":"they weren't builders, they"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1806.85,"endTime":1810.54,"body":"weren't in construction. But"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1810.66,"endTime":1814.11,"body":"they were very competent people"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1810.66,"endTime":1814.11,"body":"who could follow, follow"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1814.11,"endTime":1817.68,"body":"processes and procedures. And we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1814.11,"endTime":1817.68,"body":"and we proved that you could"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1817.68,"endTime":1823.53,"body":"build a facility very quickly to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1817.68,"endTime":1823.53,"body":"the right level of quality. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1823.53,"endTime":1827.43,"body":"after that, when it was put in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1823.53,"endTime":1827.43,"body":"place, for the first time, in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1827.43,"endTime":1831.3,"body":"anger in a real facility,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1827.43,"endTime":1831.3,"body":"actually, within the UK, we also"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1831.3,"endTime":1835.56,"body":"found that it was significantly"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1831.3,"endTime":1835.56,"body":"more cost effective than the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1835.56,"endTime":1839.4,"body":"building in traditional ways."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1835.56,"endTime":1839.4,"body":"And it took two people about 10"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1839.4,"endTime":1843.18,"body":"weeks to, to put a facility"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1839.4,"endTime":1843.18,"body":"together, which is, which is"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1843.18,"endTime":1845.37,"body":"just sort of unheard of in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1843.18,"endTime":1845.37,"body":"construction, those sorts of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1845.37,"endTime":1849.36,"body":"small numbers. So no"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1845.37,"endTime":1849.36,"body":"fascinating, fascinating"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1849.36,"endTime":1854.97,"body":"project. And I think we learned,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1849.36,"endTime":1854.97,"body":"we learned a huge amount about"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1855.0,"endTime":1859.68,"body":"what you can do to take out a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1855.0,"endTime":1859.68,"body":"lot of the waste in the overall"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1859.68,"endTime":1862.08,"body":"construction process in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1859.68,"endTime":1862.08,"body":"delivering that."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1862.78,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"It was I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1862.78,"endTime":1864.49,"body":"I love it as a case study, it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1864.49,"endTime":1868.48,"body":"was a it was a phenomenal piece"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1864.49,"endTime":1868.48,"body":"of work. But it demonstrated so"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1868.48,"endTime":1870.67,"body":"many of these things. So as soon"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1868.48,"endTime":1870.67,"body":"as he talked about the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1870.67,"endTime":1873.1,"body":"earlier the you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1870.67,"endTime":1873.1,"body":"outcomes of the societal"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1873.1,"endTime":1875.71,"body":"outcomes, we took a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1873.1,"endTime":1875.71,"body":"people, trained them up"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1875.71,"endTime":1878.14,"body":"demonstrated that you could"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1875.71,"endTime":1878.14,"body":"diversify the construction"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1878.14,"endTime":1881.68,"body":"workforce, it was a precursor to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1878.14,"endTime":1881.68,"body":"Platforms. But a lot of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1881.68,"endTime":1883.96,"body":"things we learned on that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1881.68,"endTime":1883.96,"body":"project obviously fed into the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1883.99,"endTime":1886.51,"body":"Platforms thinking. But at the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1883.99,"endTime":1886.51,"body":"end of it, it was still a lot"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1886.51,"endTime":1890.53,"body":"cheaper. So by not necessarily"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1886.51,"endTime":1890.53,"body":"focusing purely on cost, but"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1890.53,"endTime":1893.62,"body":"looking at this broader value"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1890.53,"endTime":1893.62,"body":"landscape, actually low cost"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1893.62,"endTime":1896.62,"body":"kind of fell out of it, along"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1893.62,"endTime":1896.62,"body":"with better quality and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1896.62,"endTime":1899.47,"body":"upskilling of people and all"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1896.62,"endTime":1899.47,"body":"these other things we learned."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1899.47,"endTime":1904.78,"body":"So I think it was a fantastic"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1899.47,"endTime":1904.78,"body":"sort of demonstrator of how you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1904.78,"endTime":1907.42,"body":"can achieve low cost, but also"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1904.78,"endTime":1907.42,"body":"get a load of other other"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1907.42,"endTime":1912.13,"body":"benefits. I can't help thinking"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1907.42,"endTime":1912.13,"body":"there must be a use for some of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1912.13,"endTime":1915.64,"body":"this learning in at least the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1912.13,"endTime":1915.64,"body":"healthcare projects are coming"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1915.64,"endTime":1917.83,"body":"up. But also we're going to need"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1915.64,"endTime":1917.83,"body":"to make a lot of vaccines,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1917.83,"endTime":1920.71,"body":"perhaps you can talk about the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1917.83,"endTime":1920.71,"body":"the vaccines modelling, which is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1920.71,"endTime":1923.89,"body":"the other the other piece that's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1920.71,"endTime":1923.89,"body":"very current and very pertinent"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1923.89,"endTime":1925.12,"body":"around this around this topic."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1926.05,"endTime":1929.56,"body":"Yeah, so yeah, of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1926.05,"endTime":1929.56,"body":"course, of course, the where we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1929.56,"endTime":1933.94,"body":"are today is that we're we're"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1929.56,"endTime":1933.94,"body":"all avidly waiting for a vaccine"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1933.94,"endTime":1939.43,"body":"and there's 200 odd in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1933.94,"endTime":1939.43,"body":"development. And and the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1939.43,"endTime":1943.18,"body":"difficulties with them is that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1939.43,"endTime":1943.18,"body":"that there are all different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1943.18,"endTime":1948.01,"body":"stages of development, different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1943.18,"endTime":1948.01,"body":"probabilities of success. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1948.01,"endTime":1951.52,"body":"they're also different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1948.01,"endTime":1951.52,"body":"technologies in there requiring"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1951.85,"endTime":1956.14,"body":"different manufacturing"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1951.85,"endTime":1956.14,"body":"techniques and different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1956.14,"endTime":1962.56,"body":"logistics so. So it's a really"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1956.14,"endTime":1962.56,"body":"complicated field and and how"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1962.56,"endTime":1967.0,"body":"can you be as ready as you can"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1962.56,"endTime":1967.0,"body":"be for for that? Well? Our"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1967.0,"endTime":1973.84,"body":"answer is you can start to model"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1967.0,"endTime":1973.84,"body":"it, you can start to link in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1973.84,"endTime":1976.27,"body":"with the people who are"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1973.84,"endTime":1976.27,"body":"understanding the development"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1976.27,"endTime":1980.05,"body":"processes, and their likelihood"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1976.27,"endTime":1980.05,"body":"of success and those sorts of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1980.05,"endTime":1983.38,"body":"things and those people at"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1980.05,"endTime":1983.38,"body":"universities. And so I'm working"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1983.38,"endTime":1987.13,"body":"on that. And what we could do is"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1983.38,"endTime":1987.13,"body":"link directly into that and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1987.13,"endTime":1991.96,"body":"start to look at the physicality"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1987.13,"endTime":1991.96,"body":"of the supply chains for that."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1991.96,"endTime":1995.77,"body":"So what's likely to happen what"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1991.96,"endTime":1995.77,"body":"what capacity do different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1995.77,"endTime":1999.7,"body":"countries have to make different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1995.77,"endTime":1999.7,"body":"vaccines? And what would that do"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1999.7,"endTime":2005.61,"body":"to the overall global supply of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":1999.7,"endTime":2005.61,"body":"vaccines. And by understanding"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2005.64,"endTime":2010.11,"body":"understanding that, that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2005.64,"endTime":2010.11,"body":"picture, you can, you can start"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2010.11,"endTime":2014.16,"body":"to potentially make some"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2010.11,"endTime":2014.16,"body":"decisions about, about what you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2014.16,"endTime":2018.15,"body":"might put in place, which would"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2014.16,"endTime":2018.15,"body":"overall increase your chances of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2018.15,"endTime":2023.55,"body":"responding quickly to a vaccine"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2018.15,"endTime":2023.55,"body":"that came through, and being"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2023.55,"endTime":2027.06,"body":"able to provide vaccines to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2023.55,"endTime":2027.06,"body":"people that need them as quickly"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2027.06,"endTime":2030.63,"body":"as possible. So a really"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2027.06,"endTime":2030.63,"body":"interesting place. And you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2030.63,"endTime":2033.93,"body":"mentioned, things like Factory"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2030.63,"endTime":2033.93,"body":"in a Box that they're really"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2033.93,"endTime":2038.4,"body":"useful because they're they're"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2033.93,"endTime":2038.4,"body":"sort of standardised across,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2038.43,"endTime":2041.01,"body":"there are things that are"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2038.43,"endTime":2041.01,"body":"standardised across the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2041.46,"endTime":2045.06,"body":"different processes. So all of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2041.46,"endTime":2045.06,"body":"them need hygienic spaces. So"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2045.06,"endTime":2049.35,"body":"for instance, you could make"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2045.06,"endTime":2049.35,"body":"sure that you have the hygienic"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2049.35,"endTime":2053.46,"body":"components available to you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2049.35,"endTime":2053.46,"body":"without without building, you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2053.46,"endTime":2057.27,"body":"know, the wrong wrong factories"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2053.46,"endTime":2057.27,"body":"in the wrong places. You could"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2057.27,"endTime":2060.36,"body":"have components there, which you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2057.27,"endTime":2060.36,"body":"could, you could deliver very"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2060.36,"endTime":2063.93,"body":"quickly. So as soon as you start"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2060.36,"endTime":2063.93,"body":"to model and understand you can"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2063.93,"endTime":2067.74,"body":"always start to see great"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2063.93,"endTime":2067.74,"body":"opportunities, even in really"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2067.74,"endTime":2073.38,"body":"uncertain times and outcomes to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2067.74,"endTime":2073.38,"body":"be able to take steps to to add"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2073.38,"endTime":2074.88,"body":"value to the process."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2074.95,"endTime":2076.48,"body":"So we could"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2074.95,"endTime":2076.48,"body":"talk about this all day,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2076.48,"endTime":2079.33,"body":"couldn't we? But yeah, there's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2076.48,"endTime":2079.33,"body":"quite a whole raft of benefits"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2079.33,"endTime":2083.02,"body":"that come out of this. There's a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2079.33,"endTime":2083.02,"body":"clearly a whole number of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2083.02,"endTime":2086.32,"body":"reasons to do this. Obviously,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2083.02,"endTime":2086.32,"body":"we've we've grown this ability."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2086.32,"endTime":2088.87,"body":"I think I started talking to you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2086.32,"endTime":2088.87,"body":"about this maybe 12 years ago,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2088.93,"endTime":2091.6,"body":"13 years ago, this has been a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2088.93,"endTime":2091.6,"body":"sort of journey we've gone on."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2092.08,"endTime":2095.59,"body":"Do you think it's something that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2092.08,"endTime":2095.59,"body":"everyone can do? Do you think it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2095.59,"endTime":2098.5,"body":"requires a particular skill set"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2095.59,"endTime":2098.5,"body":"or as a particular culture? What"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2098.5,"endTime":2102.37,"body":"do you think stops us becoming"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2098.5,"endTime":2102.37,"body":"Given It feels like it's a very"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2102.4,"endTime":2104.95,"body":"needed thing in construction,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2102.4,"endTime":2104.95,"body":"what stops is being sort of much"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2104.95,"endTime":2106.15,"body":"more widely scaled."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2108.22,"endTime":2110.8,"body":"So anyone can do it."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2108.22,"endTime":2110.8,"body":"It's not it's not magic, it's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2110.8,"endTime":2116.11,"body":"not a magic process that the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2110.8,"endTime":2116.11,"body":"issue, the issue comes is that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2116.11,"endTime":2121.12,"body":"first of all, you have to break"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2116.11,"endTime":2121.12,"body":"with, with the, with the ideas"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2121.12,"endTime":2125.35,"body":"and processes that you've been"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2121.12,"endTime":2125.35,"body":"following before. And there's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2125.35,"endTime":2128.98,"body":"sort of some comfort and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2125.35,"endTime":2128.98,"body":"protection in taking a brief and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2128.98,"endTime":2133.57,"body":"doing what's asked of you, and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2128.98,"endTime":2133.57,"body":"claiming variations and, and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2133.57,"endTime":2137.32,"body":"just carrying on. And, you know,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2133.57,"endTime":2137.32,"body":"lots of companies have worked"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2137.32,"endTime":2143.65,"body":"out a mechanism of surviving and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2137.32,"endTime":2143.65,"body":"under that, under that sort of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2143.65,"endTime":2149.14,"body":"process, so so why would they"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2143.65,"endTime":2149.14,"body":"change, there's a need for"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2149.23,"endTime":2154.36,"body":"bravery and stepping, stepping"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2149.23,"endTime":2154.36,"body":"out. And I said before that,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2155.14,"endTime":2159.43,"body":"they, it's quite an interesting"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2155.14,"endTime":2159.43,"body":"and risky place to be when when"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2159.43,"endTime":2162.94,"body":"a client comes in and says, I've"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2159.43,"endTime":2162.94,"body":"got this idea, I'd like to do"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2162.94,"endTime":2165.25,"body":"this, and you say, well, that's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2162.94,"endTime":2165.25,"body":"really interesting, but we don't"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2165.25,"endTime":2168.37,"body":"think that's the right thing to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2165.25,"endTime":2168.37,"body":"do. That that, you know, is"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2168.37,"endTime":2171.94,"body":"potentially a risky"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2168.37,"endTime":2171.94,"body":"conversation. So of course, you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2171.94,"endTime":2175.87,"body":"don't have it quite so abruptly"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2171.94,"endTime":2175.87,"body":"as that, and but you go on a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2175.87,"endTime":2181.75,"body":"journey together. And so so"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2175.87,"endTime":2181.75,"body":"you've got to have the, the the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2181.78,"endTime":2186.82,"body":"the courage, if you like to, to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2181.78,"endTime":2186.82,"body":"do that. And I think the other"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2186.82,"endTime":2190.12,"body":"thing you've got to have courage"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2186.82,"endTime":2190.12,"body":"in is, is you're going to start"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2190.12,"endTime":2194.44,"body":"to employ different people with"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2190.12,"endTime":2194.44,"body":"different skill sets, you're"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2194.44,"endTime":2198.34,"body":"going to have to embrace"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2194.44,"endTime":2198.34,"body":"technologies, and ideas that you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2198.34,"endTime":2202.12,"body":"haven't haven't thought about or"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2198.34,"endTime":2202.12,"body":"use before, you're going to have"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2202.12,"endTime":2205.24,"body":"to as an organisation learn,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2202.12,"endTime":2205.24,"body":"you're going to have to maybe"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2205.24,"endTime":2208.18,"body":"take some risks in who you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2205.24,"endTime":2208.18,"body":"recruit, because what you're"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2208.18,"endTime":2212.2,"body":"doing as you need to expand the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2208.18,"endTime":2212.2,"body":"diversity of knowledge and"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2212.2,"endTime":2217.3,"body":"understanding and technology in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2212.2,"endTime":2217.3,"body":"order to find new ideas. And all"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2217.3,"endTime":2220.18,"body":"those things, particularly in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2217.3,"endTime":2220.18,"body":"industries where where you're"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2220.18,"endTime":2223.57,"body":"worried about profit margins,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2220.18,"endTime":2223.57,"body":"and you're worried about, about"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2223.57,"endTime":2228.7,"body":"business, and you want to hold"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2223.57,"endTime":2228.7,"body":"on to your current clients are"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2228.7,"endTime":2235.09,"body":"all difficult, difficult steps"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2228.7,"endTime":2235.09,"body":"to take. So on one hand, it's"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2235.09,"endTime":2238.99,"body":"really it's really open to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2235.09,"endTime":2238.99,"body":"anybody to do on the other hand,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2238.99,"endTime":2243.97,"body":"it's incredibly difficult to do."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2238.99,"endTime":2243.97,"body":"And it's a bit like a bit like"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2243.97,"endTime":2248.68,"body":"Toyota, I mean, Toyota, you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2243.97,"endTime":2248.68,"body":"know, have what are perceived as"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2248.68,"endTime":2254.02,"body":"fantastically good, lean"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2248.68,"endTime":2254.02,"body":"manufacturing processes, and,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2254.08,"endTime":2257.41,"body":"and they open their doors to all"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2254.08,"endTime":2257.41,"body":"their, all their competitors to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2257.41,"endTime":2259.9,"body":"come in and have a look at them."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2257.41,"endTime":2259.9,"body":"And they do that in the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2259.9,"endTime":2263.44,"body":"knowledge that yes, you can"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2259.9,"endTime":2263.44,"body":"understand how to do these"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2263.44,"endTime":2268.27,"body":"things, you can understand the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2263.44,"endTime":2268.27,"body":"different processes and that you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2268.27,"endTime":2272.05,"body":"apply, however, you've got to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2268.27,"endTime":2272.05,"body":"have a completely different"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2272.05,"endTime":2275.14,"body":"mindset to do them and a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2272.05,"endTime":2275.14,"body":"completely different set of"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2275.14,"endTime":2278.65,"body":"ambitions for yourself as a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2275.14,"endTime":2278.65,"body":"company, and and for your"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2278.65,"endTime":2282.79,"body":"people, etc. And unless you have"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2278.65,"endTime":2282.79,"body":"that culture and ambition, then"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2282.97,"endTime":2285.82,"body":"knowing knowing the process"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2282.97,"endTime":2285.82,"body":"steps isn't going to help you."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2285.0,"endTime":2289.11,"body":"But it does"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2285.0,"endTime":2289.11,"body":"feel like an idea whose whose"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2289.11,"endTime":2293.46,"body":"time has come maybe. So if you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2289.11,"endTime":2293.46,"body":"you talk about bravery at risk."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2294.0,"endTime":2297.3,"body":"But if ever clients needed a way"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2294.0,"endTime":2297.3,"body":"to deal with uncertainty,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2297.51,"endTime":2300.33,"body":"because who knows how long you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2297.51,"endTime":2300.33,"body":"know, the ramifications, because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2300.33,"endTime":2302.52,"body":"they're going to cost at the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2300.33,"endTime":2302.52,"body":"very long shadow arent they. So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2302.52,"endTime":2305.73,"body":"if there is a time to have some"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2302.52,"endTime":2305.73,"body":"way of dealing with uncertainty,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2305.73,"endTime":2308.34,"body":"but also I think every company"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2305.73,"endTime":2308.34,"body":"has learned that they can deal"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2308.34,"endTime":2311.34,"body":"with sudden shifts, no one"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2308.34,"endTime":2311.34,"body":"expected to be running Barclays"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2311.34,"endTime":2315.0,"body":"off kitchen tables was the quote"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2311.34,"endTime":2315.0,"body":"I read in the press, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2315.03,"endTime":2318.54,"body":"eight months ago. So hopefully,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2315.03,"endTime":2318.54,"body":"companies have recognised"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2318.54,"endTime":2321.03,"body":"actually, they can make fairly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2318.54,"endTime":2321.03,"body":"quick adaptions if they need to,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2321.03,"endTime":2323.64,"body":"and they probably need a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2321.03,"endTime":2323.64,"body":"different set of tools, because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2324.27,"endTime":2327.27,"body":"the world isn't going to get any"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2324.27,"endTime":2327.27,"body":"less uncertain anytime soon. So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2327.27,"endTime":2330.54,"body":"it does feel like it's it's the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2327.27,"endTime":2330.54,"body":"time maybe more people should"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2330.54,"endTime":2332.43,"body":"start embracing some of these"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2330.54,"endTime":2332.43,"body":"ways of thinking."},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2334.07,"endTime":2336.41,"body":"Absolutely. I mean,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2334.07,"endTime":2336.41,"body":"when I was when I was in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2336.71,"endTime":2340.82,"body":"GlaxoSmithKline, I just, you"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2336.71,"endTime":2340.82,"body":"know, wanted people to do these"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2340.82,"endTime":2346.13,"body":"things more and introduce the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2340.82,"endTime":2346.13,"body":"ideas to many companies. And,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2346.16,"endTime":2349.64,"body":"and although they, at one level,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2346.16,"endTime":2349.64,"body":"really excited about the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2349.67,"endTime":2353.9,"body":"prospect. They felt that they"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2349.67,"endTime":2353.9,"body":"the risks for them as a company"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2353.9,"endTime":2357.5,"body":"were small, and but you rightly"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2353.9,"endTime":2357.5,"body":"raised that today, people have"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2357.5,"endTime":2363.11,"body":"understood that, that things are"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2357.5,"endTime":2363.11,"body":"very uncertain. And I mean, they"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2363.11,"endTime":2366.77,"body":"always were, and it's just that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2363.11,"endTime":2366.77,"body":"people get deluded into the idea"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2366.77,"endTime":2370.79,"body":"that things are certain and they"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2366.77,"endTime":2370.79,"body":"hold on to them. That if only we"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2370.79,"endTime":2374.63,"body":"can we can we can carry on in"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2370.79,"endTime":2374.63,"body":"this way everything will be will"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2374.63,"endTime":2380.9,"body":"be okay. I really do hope that"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2374.63,"endTime":2380.9,"body":"people embrace the uncertainty"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2380.9,"endTime":2385.13,"body":"actually, when we're forced to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2380.9,"endTime":2385.13,"body":"change we can find much, much"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2385.13,"endTime":2389.03,"body":"better ways of doing things. And"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2385.13,"endTime":2389.03,"body":"we often think doing things"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2389.03,"endTime":2391.67,"body":"differently are going to be"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2389.03,"endTime":2391.67,"body":"risky, but what we tend to find"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2392.09,"endTime":2395.06,"body":"is that we find much better ways"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2392.09,"endTime":2395.06,"body":"of doing things, opportunities"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2395.06,"endTime":2399.32,"body":"that were always there for the"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2395.06,"endTime":2399.32,"body":"taking, but but we were always a"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2399.32,"endTime":2404.57,"body":"bit bit too nervous to take them"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2399.32,"endTime":2404.57,"body":"and now more than any time, but"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2404.57,"endTime":2407.12,"body":"those those risks have all"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2404.57,"endTime":2407.12,"body":"ramped up anyway. So you might"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2407.12,"endTime":2411.71,"body":"as well take the plunge and have"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2407.12,"endTime":2411.71,"body":"a go. And that can only be to"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2411.71,"endTime":2415.25,"body":"the good if we can expand our"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2411.71,"endTime":2415.25,"body":"minds and expand our ambition,"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2415.58,"endTime":2419.15,"body":"about what's achievable. You"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2415.58,"endTime":2419.15,"body":"know, we, you know, there really"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2419.15,"endTime":2422.63,"body":"is opportunity in this in this"},{"speaker":"John Dyson","startTime":2419.15,"endTime":2422.63,"body":"in the situation we're in."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2423.37,"endTime":2424.78,"body":"So, as I say,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2423.37,"endTime":2424.78,"body":"we could talk about this all"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2424.78,"endTime":2427.12,"body":"day, but I think that's a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2424.78,"endTime":2427.12,"body":"brilliant place to leave it. So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2427.15,"endTime":2429.88,"body":"on that final point, expand your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2427.15,"endTime":2429.88,"body":"mind, expand your ambition."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2430.51,"endTime":2432.1,"body":"Thanks, John, for joining me"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2430.51,"endTime":2432.1,"body":"today."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.96,"endTime":2434.76,"body":"It's been a pleasure."},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2432.96,"endTime":2434.76,"body":"Thanks very much. Cheers,"},{"speaker":"Unknown","startTime":2434.76,"endTime":2435.18,"body":"Jaimie."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2436.11,"endTime":2438.63,"body":"So join us next"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2436.11,"endTime":2438.63,"body":"month, I'll be talking to Jami"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2438.63,"endTime":2440.91,"body":"Cresser-Brown, one of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2438.63,"endTime":2440.91,"body":"Directors from our Creative"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2440.91,"endTime":2444.9,"body":"Technologies team talking about"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2440.91,"endTime":2444.9,"body":"residential and how we might use"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2444.9,"endTime":2449.37,"body":"some digital tools to unlock the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2444.9,"endTime":2449.37,"body":"application of Modern Methods of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2449.37,"endTime":2451.62,"body":"Construction to deliver the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2449.37,"endTime":2451.62,"body":"housing pipeline that we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":2451.62,"endTime":2452.31,"body":"desperately need."},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2454.52,"endTime":2457.37,"body":"Thank you for listening"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2454.52,"endTime":2457.37,"body":"to Built Environment Matters. A"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2457.37,"endTime":2460.85,"body":"podcast brought to you by Bryden"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2457.37,"endTime":2460.85,"body":"Wood. Listen and subscribe"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2460.85,"endTime":2463.4,"body":"wherever you get your favourite"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2460.85,"endTime":2463.4,"body":"podcast, and you can follow"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2463.4,"endTime":2465.23,"body":"Bryden Wood on LinkedIn and"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":2463.4,"endTime":2465.23,"body":"Twitter."}]}