{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":9.0,"endTime":12.18,"body":"Hello, welcome to Built"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":9.0,"endTime":12.18,"body":"Environment Matters, a monthly"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":12.18,"endTime":15.66,"body":"podcast brought to you by Bryden"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":12.18,"endTime":15.66,"body":"Wood, an international company"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":15.84,"endTime":18.87,"body":"of technologists, designers,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":15.84,"endTime":18.87,"body":"architects, engineers and"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":18.87,"endTime":22.92,"body":"analysts working for a better"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":18.87,"endTime":22.92,"body":"built environment, Bryden Wood,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":22.92,"endTime":26.88,"body":"believe in Design to Value to"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":22.92,"endTime":26.88,"body":"cut carbon, drive efficiency,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":27.06,"endTime":31.14,"body":"save time, make beautiful places"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":27.06,"endTime":31.14,"body":"and build a better future."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":33.0,"endTime":35.13,"body":"So thanks for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":33.0,"endTime":35.13,"body":"joining us for another episode"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":35.13,"endTime":38.4,"body":"of our podcast Built Environment"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":35.13,"endTime":38.4,"body":"Matters. I am Jaimie Johnston,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":38.4,"endTime":41.16,"body":"Head of Global Systems at Bryden"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":38.4,"endTime":41.16,"body":"Wood. And this month, I've got"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":41.16,"endTime":44.04,"body":"the pleasure of being joined by"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":41.16,"endTime":44.04,"body":"Keith Waller, who's the Program"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":44.04,"endTime":46.65,"body":"Director for the Construction"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":44.04,"endTime":46.65,"body":"Innovation Hub. Hi, Keith."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":46.89,"endTime":47.46,"body":"Hi, Jaimie."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":47.55,"endTime":48.99,"body":"Perhaps we can"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":47.55,"endTime":48.99,"body":"start off just by saying a few"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":48.99,"endTime":51.12,"body":"words about what the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":48.99,"endTime":51.12,"body":"Construction Innovation Hub is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":51.15,"endTime":52.59,"body":"for those who aren't familiar"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":51.15,"endTime":52.59,"body":"with it."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":52.69,"endTime":54.85,"body":"Okay, so the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":52.69,"endTime":54.85,"body":"Construction Innovation Hub is a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":54.85,"endTime":58.39,"body":"vehicle that's funded through"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":54.85,"endTime":58.39,"body":"the Construction Sector Deal as"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":58.39,"endTime":62.02,"body":"part of the Transforming"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":58.39,"endTime":62.02,"body":"Construction Challenge. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":62.02,"endTime":66.22,"body":"we're funded through UKRI to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":62.02,"endTime":66.22,"body":"deliver a number of outcomes"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":66.88,"endTime":69.91,"body":"that support the transformation"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":66.88,"endTime":69.91,"body":"of the sector. So how do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":69.91,"endTime":73.6,"body":"embed greater digital"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":69.91,"endTime":73.6,"body":"manufacturing solutions into the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":73.6,"endTime":76.63,"body":"built environment? How do we do"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":73.6,"endTime":76.63,"body":"it in a way that supports the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":76.63,"endTime":80.02,"body":"industry to grow and prosper?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":76.63,"endTime":80.02,"body":"How do we do it in a way that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":80.02,"endTime":83.5,"body":"delivers better social, economic"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":80.02,"endTime":83.5,"body":"and environmental outcomes. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":83.5,"endTime":87.13,"body":"we get more from our"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":83.5,"endTime":87.13,"body":"construction sector in the UK."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":87.61,"endTime":89.83,"body":"And it's the Construction"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":87.61,"endTime":89.83,"body":"Innovation Hub is made up of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":89.83,"endTime":93.04,"body":"three partners, the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":89.83,"endTime":93.04,"body":"Manufacturing Technology Centre"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":93.04,"endTime":96.01,"body":"(MTC), the Building Research"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":93.04,"endTime":96.01,"body":"Establishment (BRE), and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":96.01,"endTime":99.1,"body":"Cambridge Center for Digital"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":96.01,"endTime":99.1,"body":"Built Britain (CDBB). And I say"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":99.1,"endTime":102.19,"body":"three partners, but I really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":99.1,"endTime":102.19,"body":"should say is four because"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":102.19,"endTime":104.92,"body":"actually, our program is not a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":102.19,"endTime":104.92,"body":"self delivery model. It's a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":104.92,"endTime":108.19,"body":"co-delivery model. So we're"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":104.92,"endTime":108.19,"body":"delivering our outputs by"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":108.19,"endTime":111.31,"body":"working very closely with"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":108.19,"endTime":111.31,"body":"industry partners, people like"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":111.31,"endTime":115.33,"body":"Bryden Wood. So we will not"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":111.31,"endTime":115.33,"body":"deliver our ambitions if we work"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":115.33,"endTime":118.9,"body":"in splendid isolation over our"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":115.33,"endTime":118.9,"body":"four year program, we have to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":118.9,"endTime":121.6,"body":"work collaboratively with"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":118.9,"endTime":121.6,"body":"clients and government and with"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":121.6,"endTime":124.45,"body":"our industry partners to make"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":121.6,"endTime":124.45,"body":"sure the outputs that we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":124.45,"endTime":128.2,"body":"produce, deliver those outcomes"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":124.45,"endTime":128.2,"body":"we need as part of a transformed"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":128.2,"endTime":129.19,"body":"construction sector."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":129.99,"endTime":133.2,"body":"So thinking"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":129.99,"endTime":133.2,"body":"back, think I first met you in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":134.37,"endTime":137.94,"body":"one of those airless, windowless"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":134.37,"endTime":137.94,"body":"basement rooms in BIS as it was,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":137.94,"endTime":140.46,"body":"now BEIS,  talking about BIM"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":137.94,"endTime":140.46,"body":"level three. So can you give us"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":140.46,"endTime":143.28,"body":"a quick canter through your CV"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":140.46,"endTime":143.28,"body":"because you've been right at the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":143.28,"endTime":146.16,"body":"front and center of this drive"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":143.28,"endTime":146.16,"body":"to transform construction in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":146.16,"endTime":148.86,"body":"different guises. It might be"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":146.16,"endTime":148.86,"body":"interesting just to go through"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":148.86,"endTime":150.66,"body":"some of the steps in that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":148.86,"endTime":150.66,"body":"process."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":151.5,"endTime":155.46,"body":"I spent about 25"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":151.5,"endTime":155.46,"body":"years after I graduated working"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":155.46,"endTime":159.06,"body":"on various projects on site in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":155.46,"endTime":159.06,"body":"the design office in the UK, in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":159.06,"endTime":162.84,"body":"the states in Europe. And it was"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":159.06,"endTime":162.84,"body":"really when I was involved in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":162.84,"endTime":165.06,"body":"the energy sector and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":162.84,"endTime":165.06,"body":"particularly the nuclear sector,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":165.06,"endTime":167.91,"body":"I was first approached by"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":165.06,"endTime":167.91,"body":"government to come and be an"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":167.91,"endTime":171.0,"body":"advisor in what was then the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":167.91,"endTime":171.0,"body":"Department of Energy and Climate"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":171.0,"endTime":174.48,"body":"Change at the very start of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":171.0,"endTime":174.48,"body":"2010. And very quickly from"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":174.48,"endTime":178.17,"body":"there, I started in the Treasury"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":174.48,"endTime":178.17,"body":"in Infrastructure UK, the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":178.17,"endTime":181.86,"body":"forerunner to the Infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":178.17,"endTime":181.86,"body":"and Projects Authority. So I had"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":181.86,"endTime":184.98,"body":"about eight or nine years"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":181.86,"endTime":184.98,"body":"working in central government."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":185.31,"endTime":188.64,"body":"And the last couple of years,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":185.31,"endTime":188.64,"body":"I've left and taken on the role"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":188.82,"endTime":191.94,"body":"of delivering, if you like, on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":188.82,"endTime":191.94,"body":"the Construction Sector Deal by"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":191.94,"endTime":195.06,"body":"running the Construction"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":191.94,"endTime":195.06,"body":"Innovation Hub. So for me, my"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":195.06,"endTime":199.89,"body":"journey started in 2010 in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":195.06,"endTime":199.89,"body":"government, I had no idea how"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":199.89,"endTime":203.58,"body":"government worked, it sounded"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":199.89,"endTime":203.58,"body":"phenomenally dull and boring."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":203.85,"endTime":206.76,"body":"And I wasn't sure I really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":203.85,"endTime":206.76,"body":"wanted to do it. But of course,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":206.76,"endTime":209.58,"body":"when I got in there, I found it"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":206.76,"endTime":209.58,"body":"absolutely fascinating. And I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":209.58,"endTime":212.94,"body":"met some really bright and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":209.58,"endTime":212.94,"body":"really interesting people who"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":213.12,"endTime":216.12,"body":"thought differently and acted"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":213.12,"endTime":216.12,"body":"differently to what I've been"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":216.12,"endTime":220.32,"body":"used to in the construction"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":216.12,"endTime":220.32,"body":"sector. So you know, by the time"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":220.32,"endTime":223.83,"body":"we met Jaimie, I was probably"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":220.32,"endTime":223.83,"body":"just finding my feet in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":223.83,"endTime":227.19,"body":"government. But actually you"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":223.83,"endTime":227.19,"body":"learn a lot of things very"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":227.19,"endTime":230.28,"body":"quickly. And of course, we often"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":227.19,"endTime":230.28,"body":"think of ourselves in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":230.28,"endTime":234.57,"body":"engineering community as being"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":230.28,"endTime":234.57,"body":"innovators. And actually, we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":234.6,"endTime":237.48,"body":"think we're quite good at"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":234.6,"endTime":237.48,"body":"working out what needs doing."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":237.99,"endTime":241.86,"body":"But actually, the real skill, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":237.99,"endTime":241.86,"body":"think one of the biggest lessons"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":241.86,"endTime":244.26,"body":"I learned from my time in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":241.86,"endTime":244.26,"body":"government is working out what"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":244.26,"endTime":248.01,"body":"to do can be quite easy. It's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":244.26,"endTime":248.01,"body":"working out how to get it done"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":248.28,"endTime":251.52,"body":"that becomes hard. And of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":248.28,"endTime":251.52,"body":"course, we've seen Coalition"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":251.52,"endTime":253.98,"body":"government, following on from"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":251.52,"endTime":253.98,"body":"the Labour government when I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":253.98,"endTime":256.74,"body":"first started, and then a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":253.98,"endTime":256.74,"body":"Conservative government to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":256.74,"endTime":260.73,"body":"follow that. But in all of those"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":256.74,"endTime":260.73,"body":"three different types of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":260.73,"endTime":263.76,"body":"government, we've seen, there's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":260.73,"endTime":263.76,"body":"been an increasing focus on the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":263.76,"endTime":267.66,"body":"importance of construction and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":263.76,"endTime":267.66,"body":"infrastructure, and how that can"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":267.66,"endTime":271.26,"body":"be transformed. So it's really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":267.66,"endTime":271.26,"body":"exciting place to be working on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":271.32,"endTime":275.07,"body":"how we shape policy, how policy"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":271.32,"endTime":275.07,"body":"gets delivered, and how we can"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":275.07,"endTime":278.49,"body":"transform the sector from its"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":275.07,"endTime":278.49,"body":"medieval practices into"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":278.49,"endTime":281.22,"body":"something that's a little bit"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":278.49,"endTime":281.22,"body":"more future facing a little bit"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":281.22,"endTime":285.42,"body":"more inclusive, and better"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":281.22,"endTime":285.42,"body":"represents the society we serve."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":285.93,"endTime":287.91,"body":"Yes, that's,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":285.93,"endTime":287.91,"body":"this isn't a question you can"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":287.91,"endTime":289.68,"body":"ask it. But that's really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":287.91,"endTime":289.68,"body":"fascinating. I was reading a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":289.68,"endTime":294.42,"body":"thing recently about people"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":289.68,"endTime":294.42,"body":"think that the private sector is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":294.42,"endTime":297.45,"body":"that kind of groovy place of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":294.42,"endTime":297.45,"body":"innovation. But actually things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":297.45,"endTime":300.24,"body":"like the iPod world or the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":297.45,"endTime":300.24,"body":"iPhone. were built on a whole"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":300.24,"endTime":302.88,"body":"load of R\u0026D that was carried out"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":300.24,"endTime":302.88,"body":"by governments because noone in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":302.88,"endTime":305.4,"body":"a private sector can't afford to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":302.88,"endTime":305.4,"body":"do that stuff. So yeah, I had"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":305.4,"endTime":308.79,"body":"the same experience actually"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":305.4,"endTime":308.79,"body":"that certainly working with a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":308.79,"endTime":311.37,"body":"kind of civil servants you think"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":308.79,"endTime":311.37,"body":"flipping hell really bright"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":311.37,"endTime":314.73,"body":"people all trying to do"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":311.37,"endTime":314.73,"body":"fantastic work. I think people"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":314.73,"endTime":316.38,"body":"don't see that because they see"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":314.73,"endTime":316.38,"body":"the political end of it. But"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":316.38,"endTime":318.0,"body":"yeah, I completely agree that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":316.38,"endTime":318.0,"body":"sort of that, yeah, the people"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":318.0,"endTime":321.63,"body":"working at government level are"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":318.0,"endTime":321.63,"body":"really, really trying hard to do"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":321.63,"endTime":323.07,"body":"the best for the country, I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":321.63,"endTime":323.07,"body":"think, yeah, people don't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":323.07,"endTime":325.83,"body":"necessarily see that just sort"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":323.07,"endTime":325.83,"body":"of watching, you know, the press"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":325.83,"endTime":327.57,"body":"releases and some of the stuff"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":325.83,"endTime":327.57,"body":"they see on TV."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":328.2,"endTime":330.78,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":328.2,"endTime":330.78,"body":"actually, the the way that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":330.78,"endTime":332.85,"body":"government and industry have"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":330.78,"endTime":332.85,"body":"been working together,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":332.85,"endTime":337.5,"body":"particularly in 2020, since the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":332.85,"endTime":337.5,"body":"pandemic started. And more"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":337.5,"endTime":341.43,"body":"recently, in terms of developing"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":337.5,"endTime":341.43,"body":"the policy responses to the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":341.43,"endTime":345.33,"body":"pandemic, we've seen much more"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":341.43,"endTime":345.33,"body":"collaborative work. And in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":345.36,"endTime":348.81,"body":"past, government has produced"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":345.36,"endTime":348.81,"body":"policies and landed it on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":348.81,"endTime":352.92,"body":"industry and said, there you go."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":348.81,"endTime":352.92,"body":"This time, we've seen certainly"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":352.92,"endTime":355.47,"body":"with the Construction Playbook."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":352.92,"endTime":355.47,"body":"And with the Industrial"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":355.47,"endTime":358.17,"body":"Strategy, a much more"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":355.47,"endTime":358.17,"body":"collaborative approach where"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":358.17,"endTime":361.86,"body":"government is working with"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":358.17,"endTime":361.86,"body":"industry to make sure the policy"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":361.86,"endTime":365.16,"body":"is going to land and is"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":361.86,"endTime":365.16,"body":"implementable, rather than just"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":365.16,"endTime":367.38,"body":"something that will make a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":365.16,"endTime":367.38,"body":"headline in tomorrow's Daily"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":367.38,"endTime":370.32,"body":"Mail. They're now thinking about"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":367.38,"endTime":370.32,"body":"long term delivery and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":370.32,"endTime":373.35,"body":"implementation of the policy."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":370.32,"endTime":373.35,"body":"And they recognize they need to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":373.35,"endTime":376.71,"body":"be working with industry to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":373.35,"endTime":376.71,"body":"deliver it. So writing the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":376.71,"endTime":379.83,"body":"policy document is not the end"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":376.71,"endTime":379.83,"body":"of the journey. It's the start."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":380.16,"endTime":383.25,"body":"And I think how industry and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":380.16,"endTime":383.25,"body":"government can work together is"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":383.25,"endTime":386.01,"body":"going to be absolutely crucial"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":383.25,"endTime":386.01,"body":"to how we deliver on the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":386.01,"endTime":388.35,"body":"transformation objectives we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":386.01,"endTime":388.35,"body":"need for the sector."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":390.31,"endTime":391.63,"body":"I want to come"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":390.31,"endTime":391.63,"body":"on to the Construction Playbook,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":391.63,"endTime":396.31,"body":"but it says the sort of latest"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":391.63,"endTime":396.31,"body":"in a series of linked things. So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":396.31,"endTime":398.65,"body":"there was the adoption of BIM,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":396.31,"endTime":398.65,"body":"then there was the Autumn"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":398.65,"endTime":400.84,"body":"Statement around Modern Methods"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":398.65,"endTime":400.84,"body":"of Construction, transforming"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":400.84,"endTime":402.94,"body":"infrastructure performance, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":400.84,"endTime":402.94,"body":"Sector Deal, the Hub, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":402.94,"endTime":406.48,"body":"Platforms, there's been a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":402.94,"endTime":406.48,"body":"sequence of these events. It"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":406.48,"endTime":409.33,"body":"feels to me like government has"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":406.48,"endTime":409.33,"body":"been putting all that all the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":409.39,"endTime":412.06,"body":"things in place. But my personal"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":409.39,"endTime":412.06,"body":"view, industry hasn't been"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":412.06,"endTime":414.88,"body":"responding quickly enough. We're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":412.06,"endTime":414.88,"body":"still talking about when you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":414.88,"endTime":417.58,"body":"started looking at climate"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":414.88,"endTime":417.58,"body":"sector, we're still talking"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":417.58,"endTime":421.42,"body":"about productivity and carbon"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":417.58,"endTime":421.42,"body":"things. Do you think we do you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":421.42,"endTime":423.7,"body":"agree, or do you think we're not"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":421.42,"endTime":423.7,"body":"moving quickly enough? And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":423.7,"endTime":426.01,"body":"certainly, we're not moving"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":423.7,"endTime":426.01,"body":"quickly enough for the next 30"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":426.01,"endTime":429.31,"body":"years after see some fundamental"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":426.01,"endTime":429.31,"body":"change in construction, doesn't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":429.31,"endTime":429.52,"body":"it?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":430.05,"endTime":432.39,"body":"Yeah. And I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":430.05,"endTime":432.39,"body":"if we just reflect over the last"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":432.39,"endTime":436.53,"body":"decade, I mean, the very first"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":432.39,"endTime":436.53,"body":"time I was in the Treasury, was"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":436.53,"endTime":440.97,"body":"in the summer of 2010. And at"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":436.53,"endTime":440.97,"body":"that stage, it was the emergency"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":440.97,"endTime":444.3,"body":"budget and the emergency"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":440.97,"endTime":444.3,"body":"spending review, when government"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":444.3,"endTime":447.15,"body":"was setting out his plans to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":444.3,"endTime":447.15,"body":"deal with the deficit. So a lot"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":447.15,"endTime":450.72,"body":"of projects were cancelled. A"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":447.15,"endTime":450.72,"body":"lot of schemes, highway schemes"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":450.72,"endTime":453.57,"body":"that had been started, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":450.72,"endTime":453.57,"body":"school building programs that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":453.57,"endTime":457.26,"body":"were underway were more or less"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":453.57,"endTime":457.26,"body":"cut overnight. And there was a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":457.26,"endTime":461.04,"body":"lot of fiscal consolidation"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":457.26,"endTime":461.04,"body":"going on at that time. And when"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":461.04,"endTime":465.06,"body":"they started to put out spending"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":461.04,"endTime":465.06,"body":"plans, and of course, the end of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":465.06,"endTime":468.54,"body":"2010 saw the very first"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":465.06,"endTime":468.54,"body":"iteration of the National"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":468.54,"endTime":471.78,"body":"Infrastructure Plan, when they"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":468.54,"endTime":471.78,"body":"the government construction"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":471.78,"endTime":475.8,"body":"strategy and the BIM mandate"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":471.78,"endTime":475.8,"body":"that followed in 2011. But at"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":475.8,"endTime":479.16,"body":"that stage, much of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":475.8,"endTime":479.16,"body":"narrative was focused around"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":479.19,"endTime":482.76,"body":"efficiency, how do we save"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":479.19,"endTime":482.76,"body":"money? And I would characterise"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":482.76,"endTime":485.94,"body":"it is, you know, almost how do"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":482.76,"endTime":485.94,"body":"we do the wrong thing better?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":486.51,"endTime":489.24,"body":"And actually, as we've started"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":486.51,"endTime":489.24,"body":"to move forward, and started to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":489.24,"endTime":492.54,"body":"perhaps think more about how do"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":489.24,"endTime":492.54,"body":"we drive better performance? How"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":492.54,"endTime":496.32,"body":"do we increase value? How do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":492.54,"endTime":496.32,"body":"deliver those broader outcomes?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":496.47,"endTime":500.01,"body":"And how do we work with industry"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":496.47,"endTime":500.01,"body":"and academia and business"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":500.01,"endTime":504.33,"body":"community to deliver that? We're"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":500.01,"endTime":504.33,"body":"seeing perhaps a flip from can"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":504.33,"endTime":507.75,"body":"we do the wrong thing better to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":504.33,"endTime":507.75,"body":"can we do a better thing. And I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":507.75,"endTime":510.78,"body":"think the pace of change over"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":507.75,"endTime":510.78,"body":"the last two years, has been"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":510.78,"endTime":514.74,"body":"quite remarkable. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":510.78,"endTime":514.74,"body":"actually COVID has, in a way"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":514.74,"endTime":518.34,"body":"been a bit of a catalyst for"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":514.74,"endTime":518.34,"body":"some more rapid change and a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":518.34,"endTime":521.91,"body":"more of an appetite to change."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":518.34,"endTime":521.91,"body":"Certainly the government in all"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":521.91,"endTime":526.05,"body":"its messaging about Build Back"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":521.91,"endTime":526.05,"body":"Better, Greener, Faster, that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":526.05,"endTime":529.68,"body":"not cheaper. That's Better,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":526.05,"endTime":529.68,"body":"Greener, Faster. So we are"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":529.68,"endTime":533.25,"body":"seeing a change, to recognise"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":529.68,"endTime":533.25,"body":"that we need to be delivering"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":533.25,"endTime":535.83,"body":"better outcomes from the huge"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":533.25,"endTime":535.83,"body":"investment we make in the Built"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":535.83,"endTime":538.89,"body":"Environment. How does that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":535.83,"endTime":538.89,"body":"support leveling up our economy?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":539.01,"endTime":541.83,"body":"How does it deliver greater"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":539.01,"endTime":541.83,"body":"social value? How does it help"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":541.83,"endTime":545.58,"body":"drive a path to net zero, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":541.83,"endTime":545.58,"body":"you don't do these things by"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":545.7,"endTime":549.15,"body":"buying cheap, taking the lowest"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":545.7,"endTime":549.15,"body":"price and hoping everything"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":549.15,"endTime":552.84,"body":"works out? transferring risks"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":549.15,"endTime":552.84,"body":"down the supply chain, arcane"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":552.84,"endTime":556.41,"body":"procurement practices? So it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":552.84,"endTime":556.41,"body":"really quite heartening to see a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":556.41,"endTime":560.22,"body":"policy environment developing,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":556.41,"endTime":560.22,"body":"which is focused more on value"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":560.4,"endTime":565.2,"body":"and more on outcomes, and less"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":560.4,"endTime":565.2,"body":"of a focus on cheap. So I think,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":565.2,"endTime":567.48,"body":"you know, I'm quite optimistic"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":565.2,"endTime":567.48,"body":"that the pace of change we've"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":567.48,"endTime":571.35,"body":"seen over the last 12 months"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":567.48,"endTime":571.35,"body":"will continue and perhaps"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":571.35,"endTime":576.06,"body":"accelerate, as government sets"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":571.35,"endTime":576.06,"body":"out its its plans to drive an"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":576.06,"endTime":578.82,"body":"economic recovery through how it"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":576.06,"endTime":578.82,"body":"invests in construction"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":578.82,"endTime":582.42,"body":"infrastructure, and our industry"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":578.82,"endTime":582.42,"body":"sort of girds its loins to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":582.42,"endTime":587.1,"body":"able to respond in a way that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":582.42,"endTime":587.1,"body":"delivers better value and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":587.1,"endTime":589.47,"body":"supports those better outcomes"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":587.1,"endTime":589.47,"body":"that we desperately need."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":590.94,"endTime":592.71,"body":"You mentioned"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":590.94,"endTime":592.71,"body":"that the Playbook I mean, that,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":592.8,"endTime":597.33,"body":"for me has been a phenomenal"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":592.8,"endTime":597.33,"body":"example of just how quickly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":597.33,"endTime":599.52,"body":"people can move. I mean, given"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":597.33,"endTime":599.52,"body":"the fact that one was working in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":599.52,"endTime":601.92,"body":"new cicumstances and everyone"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":599.52,"endTime":601.92,"body":"had their own business"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":601.92,"endTime":604.35,"body":"imperatives to focus on the fact"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":601.92,"endTime":604.35,"body":"that government is able to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":604.38,"endTime":607.98,"body":"collate or get together that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":604.38,"endTime":607.98,"body":"group of people from both public"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":607.98,"endTime":611.28,"body":"and private sector side, create"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":607.98,"endTime":611.28,"body":"that document, get that level of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":611.28,"endTime":613.95,"body":"buy in, in the time it's taken,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":611.28,"endTime":613.95,"body":"you go, that's a phenomenal,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":613.95,"endTime":616.62,"body":"let's never lose that that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":613.95,"endTime":616.62,"body":"agility, that ability. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":617.22,"endTime":618.84,"body":"perhaps we can talk a bit about,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":617.22,"endTime":618.84,"body":"you know, the contents of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":618.84,"endTime":620.67,"body":"Construction Playbook, but what"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":618.84,"endTime":620.67,"body":"what we think it means and maybe"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":620.67,"endTime":624.9,"body":"a little bit about the process"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":620.67,"endTime":624.9,"body":"of just how, how that galvanised"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":624.9,"endTime":627.75,"body":"industry to create that sort of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":624.9,"endTime":627.75,"body":"set of interlinked locking"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":627.75,"endTime":629.01,"body":"policies and quite the way it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":627.75,"endTime":629.01,"body":"did?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":629.63,"endTime":631.55,"body":"Well, I think it"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":629.63,"endTime":631.55,"body":"would have been quite difficult"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":631.61,"endTime":635.15,"body":"to galvanize industry without"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":631.61,"endTime":635.15,"body":"there being a crisis at that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":635.15,"endTime":639.11,"body":"time. One of the characteristics"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":635.15,"endTime":639.11,"body":"of policy development over the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":639.11,"endTime":642.11,"body":"last 10 years is there's been an"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":639.11,"endTime":642.11,"body":"absolute plethora of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":642.11,"endTime":645.47,"body":"announcements. And even if"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":642.11,"endTime":645.47,"body":"you're in them in the centre of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":645.47,"endTime":648.29,"body":"government is quite difficult to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":645.47,"endTime":648.29,"body":"keep up with everything that's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":648.29,"endTime":651.74,"body":"going on. You've got all the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":648.29,"endTime":651.74,"body":"policy environment around"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":651.98,"endTime":655.4,"body":"Brexit, around, you know how"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":651.98,"endTime":655.4,"body":"government's setting out its"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":655.4,"endTime":658.85,"body":"schools, building program, its"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":655.4,"endTime":658.85,"body":"road building program, High"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":658.85,"endTime":662.39,"body":"Speed 2 major infrastructure"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":658.85,"endTime":662.39,"body":"projects, and you can be easily"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":662.39,"endTime":666.38,"body":"forgiven for just you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":662.39,"endTime":666.38,"body":"giving up on trying to keep up"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":666.38,"endTime":668.72,"body":"with all the announcements and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":666.38,"endTime":668.72,"body":"policy initiatives that are"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":668.72,"endTime":672.65,"body":"coming out. But actually, that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":668.72,"endTime":672.65,"body":"the crisis with COVID bought the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":672.65,"endTime":675.53,"body":"industry together. And I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":672.65,"endTime":675.53,"body":"huge credit goes to the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":675.53,"endTime":679.55,"body":"Construction Leadership Council,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":675.53,"endTime":679.55,"body":"and the officials in BEIS in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":679.55,"endTime":683.57,"body":"particular, who worked very"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":679.55,"endTime":683.57,"body":"closely to forge a much better"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":683.57,"endTime":686.69,"body":"link between industry and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":683.57,"endTime":686.69,"body":"government through that. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":686.69,"endTime":691.16,"body":"that renewed convening power."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":686.69,"endTime":691.16,"body":"And the spectacular things that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":691.16,"endTime":694.31,"body":"CLC have done in terms of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":691.16,"endTime":694.31,"body":"keeping sites open, launching"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":694.31,"endTime":698.03,"body":"the talent retention scheme, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":694.31,"endTime":698.03,"body":"others have really given"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":698.03,"endTime":701.36,"body":"industry a voice in government."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":698.03,"endTime":701.36,"body":"So it's a sector that hasn't"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":701.36,"endTime":706.16,"body":"necessarily been widely listened"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":701.36,"endTime":706.16,"body":"to, in the past. It hasn't"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":706.16,"endTime":709.19,"body":"spoken to government with one"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":706.16,"endTime":709.19,"body":"voice, the messages have been"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":709.19,"endTime":714.62,"body":"quite confusing. But I think CLC"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":709.19,"endTime":714.62,"body":"speaking in one voice, over the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":714.62,"endTime":718.4,"body":"period of the early days of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":714.62,"endTime":718.4,"body":"pandemic, helped government to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":718.4,"endTime":721.31,"body":"recognize the benefit of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":718.4,"endTime":721.31,"body":"engaging with industry, and how"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":721.31,"endTime":723.92,"body":"the sector could support its"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":721.31,"endTime":723.92,"body":"recovery. And I think the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":723.92,"endTime":727.07,"body":"industry players themselves have"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":723.92,"endTime":727.07,"body":"seen the benefit of coming"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":727.07,"endTime":730.79,"body":"together to address that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":727.07,"endTime":730.79,"body":"significant problem that COVID"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":730.79,"endTime":734.27,"body":"brought to the sector, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":730.79,"endTime":734.27,"body":"seeing it as a way, not just in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":734.27,"endTime":737.9,"body":"terms of how it might recover"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":734.27,"endTime":737.9,"body":"from the immediate downturn, but"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":737.9,"endTime":741.71,"body":"how it may support and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":737.9,"endTime":741.71,"body":"accelerate the transformation to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":741.71,"endTime":744.29,"body":"a more productive, more"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":741.71,"endTime":744.29,"body":"sustainable sector in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":744.29,"endTime":749.75,"body":"future. So I think government's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":744.29,"endTime":749.75,"body":"Done, done an extremely powerful"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":749.75,"endTime":753.38,"body":"job of setting out a policy"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":749.75,"endTime":753.38,"body":"environment in a way that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":753.38,"endTime":757.07,"body":"engages industry, and makes it"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":753.38,"endTime":757.07,"body":"want to be part of that journey."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":757.34,"endTime":760.13,"body":"And that's been replicated. But"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":757.34,"endTime":760.13,"body":"I think the the great work the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":760.13,"endTime":763.76,"body":"CLC has done and how it's used"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":760.13,"endTime":763.76,"body":"its convening power to bring"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":763.76,"endTime":767.12,"body":"industry to the table. So it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":763.76,"endTime":767.12,"body":"listened to, its views are"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":767.12,"endTime":770.93,"body":"actively sought. So to help"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":767.12,"endTime":770.93,"body":"shape the policy environment to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":770.93,"endTime":771.74,"body":"something we need."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":772.11,"endTime":773.7,"body":"Yeah, we we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":772.11,"endTime":773.7,"body":"talked about this before that,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":773.76,"endTime":777.06,"body":"you know, construction is vast"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":773.76,"endTime":777.06,"body":"compared to automotive or"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":777.06,"endTime":779.94,"body":"aerospace, say but, because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":777.06,"endTime":779.94,"body":"there Yeah, as you say, they're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":779.94,"endTime":782.04,"body":"much more joined up, they speak"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":779.94,"endTime":782.04,"body":"with one with one voice, they're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":782.04,"endTime":783.84,"body":"much more consistent. they're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":782.04,"endTime":783.84,"body":"asked to government and say,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":783.84,"endTime":785.58,"body":"right, and the next billion"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":783.84,"endTime":785.58,"body":"pounds of investment, we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":785.58,"endTime":788.34,"body":"going to sell our engines wings,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":785.58,"endTime":788.34,"body":"whatever it is, for the good of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":788.34,"endTime":793.62,"body":"the industry, they seem to have"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":788.34,"endTime":793.62,"body":"a lot more penetrating power in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":793.62,"endTime":795.57,"body":"terms of getting what it wants,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":793.62,"endTime":795.57,"body":"it feels like this is sort of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":795.57,"endTime":799.47,"body":"constructions chance to get a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":795.57,"endTime":799.47,"body":"seat at the big table. And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":799.47,"endTime":802.11,"body":"actually, if we can nail this,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":799.47,"endTime":802.11,"body":"if we can talk with one voice,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":802.11,"endTime":804.51,"body":"if we can do that, there's no"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":802.11,"endTime":804.51,"body":"there's plenty more it feels"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":804.51,"endTime":807.42,"body":"engagement from governments, it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":804.51,"endTime":807.42,"body":"feels like there's a recognition"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":807.42,"endTime":810.57,"body":"that you know, this could be the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":807.42,"endTime":810.57,"body":"engine that kickstart the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":810.57,"endTime":812.73,"body":"economy helps the road to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":810.57,"endTime":812.73,"body":"recovery, if we get this right,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":812.73,"endTime":814.92,"body":"so it feels like a vast"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":812.73,"endTime":814.92,"body":"opportunity for construction, if"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":814.92,"endTime":816.42,"body":"we can just get our hands on it."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":816.6,"endTime":819.12,"body":"Yeah. And I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":816.6,"endTime":819.12,"body":"that that's continuing today. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":819.12,"endTime":823.41,"body":"you know that even with the the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":819.12,"endTime":823.41,"body":"Playbook publication, industry"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":823.41,"endTime":826.92,"body":"has been asked to be part of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":823.41,"endTime":826.92,"body":"implementation of it, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":826.92,"endTime":830.4,"body":"so it's being done with industry"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":826.92,"endTime":830.4,"body":"rather than to industry in that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":830.4,"endTime":834.24,"body":"space. And I certainly think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":830.4,"endTime":834.24,"body":"industry does have a much more"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":834.24,"endTime":838.86,"body":"prominent seat at that table"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":834.24,"endTime":838.86,"body":"now, because the language of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":838.92,"endTime":842.73,"body":"what we need for recovery isn't"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":838.92,"endTime":842.73,"body":"about, we just need more people"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":842.73,"endTime":846.81,"body":"on site to build things cheaper."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":842.73,"endTime":846.81,"body":"It's recognizing that how we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":846.84,"endTime":850.29,"body":"construct our assets, how we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":846.84,"endTime":850.29,"body":"operate, the built environment"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":850.29,"endTime":853.74,"body":"in the future, really will"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":850.29,"endTime":853.74,"body":"support a leveling up agenda"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":853.74,"endTime":857.73,"body":"will support a better path to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":853.74,"endTime":857.73,"body":"net zero will support greater"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":857.73,"endTime":861.87,"body":"social impact. So it's not just"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":857.73,"endTime":861.87,"body":"what in terms of a long list of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":861.87,"endTime":865.98,"body":"projects, we're going to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":861.87,"endTime":865.98,"body":"funding in the UK, in our"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":865.98,"endTime":869.43,"body":"construction infrastructure."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":865.98,"endTime":869.43,"body":"It's very much about how we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":869.43,"endTime":871.83,"body":"deliver those projects. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":869.43,"endTime":871.83,"body":"we're seeing, you know, great"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":871.83,"endTime":875.52,"body":"policy drivers, not just around"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":871.83,"endTime":875.52,"body":"digital, but around how do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":875.52,"endTime":877.74,"body":"drive greater levels of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":875.52,"endTime":877.74,"body":"manufacturing and more"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":877.74,"endTime":882.15,"body":"productive growth into the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":877.74,"endTime":882.15,"body":"sector? How do we use data in a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":882.15,"endTime":884.73,"body":"way that supports not just"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":882.15,"endTime":884.73,"body":"better construction projects,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":884.97,"endTime":888.36,"body":"but better operational assets?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":884.97,"endTime":888.36,"body":"So actually, industry has got a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":888.36,"endTime":893.07,"body":"really important role in how"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":888.36,"endTime":893.07,"body":"things are delivered, and how in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":893.07,"endTime":896.49,"body":"that delivery. They support"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":893.07,"endTime":896.49,"body":"those broader social, economic"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":896.49,"endTime":899.67,"body":"and environmental outcomes that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":896.49,"endTime":899.67,"body":"are so crucial in our strategic"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":899.67,"endTime":903.18,"body":"policy. Drivers as a nation know"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":899.67,"endTime":903.18,"body":"if how are we going to level up?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":903.33,"endTime":906.87,"body":"How are we going to decarbonize"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":903.33,"endTime":906.87,"body":"the construction sector is"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":906.87,"endTime":909.93,"body":"crucial in delivering that. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":906.87,"endTime":909.93,"body":"both on the new assets that we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":909.93,"endTime":913.5,"body":"build, and how we operate the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":909.93,"endTime":913.5,"body":"existing assets, which make up"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":913.5,"endTime":916.41,"body":"the vast majority of the built"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":913.5,"endTime":916.41,"body":"environment anyway. So we have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":916.41,"endTime":919.5,"body":"seat at the table. And that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":916.41,"endTime":919.5,"body":"voice is now being listened to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":919.5,"endTime":922.47,"body":"and actively sought. And it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":919.5,"endTime":922.47,"body":"really up to us to make sure we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":922.47,"endTime":925.89,"body":"use it in a way that delivers"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":922.47,"endTime":925.89,"body":"those better outcomes and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":925.89,"endTime":927.42,"body":"supports the transformation we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":925.89,"endTime":927.42,"body":"need."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":927.51,"endTime":929.64,"body":"Yeah, that's,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":927.51,"endTime":929.64,"body":"well, there's something. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":929.64,"endTime":931.35,"body":"you said it early. I think"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":929.64,"endTime":931.35,"body":"there's something incredibly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":934.26,"endTime":936.42,"body":"prescient about the timing. I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":934.26,"endTime":936.42,"body":"mean, obviously, the COVID thing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":936.42,"endTime":939.42,"body":"has been horrific, the number of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":936.42,"endTime":939.42,"body":"families affected, you got"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":939.42,"endTime":942.18,"body":"entire industries at a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":939.42,"endTime":942.18,"body":"standstill, who knows when that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":942.18,"endTime":945.87,"body":"will recover. But if it was one"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":942.18,"endTime":945.87,"body":"silver lining it does feel like"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":945.87,"endTime":948.51,"body":"it came at a time when"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":945.87,"endTime":948.51,"body":"construction was gearing itself"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":948.51,"endTime":950.76,"body":"up through things like the hub"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":948.51,"endTime":950.76,"body":"to kind of get get fit for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":950.76,"endTime":953.52,"body":"purpose, the future, things that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":950.76,"endTime":953.52,"body":"we were doing for actually a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":953.52,"endTime":957.69,"body":"productivity gain, won't be"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":953.52,"endTime":957.69,"body":"quite useful for social"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":957.69,"endTime":959.79,"body":"distancing moving forward. And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":957.69,"endTime":959.79,"body":"then there's obviously all the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":959.79,"endTime":962.76,"body":"stuff around climate crisis and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":959.79,"endTime":962.76,"body":"things. So it does feel like if"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":962.76,"endTime":965.16,"body":"there was a time to kind of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":962.76,"endTime":965.16,"body":"slightly put a pause on the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":965.16,"endTime":969.69,"body":"industry, give people time to,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":965.16,"endTime":969.69,"body":"yeah, understand how uncertain"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":969.69,"endTime":971.85,"body":"The world is moving forward, how"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":969.69,"endTime":971.85,"body":"interlinked we are, I felt like"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":971.85,"endTime":973.35,"body":"this was quite a good time to do"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":971.85,"endTime":973.35,"body":"it. And then you get the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":973.35,"endTime":976.44,"body":"Construction Playbook. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":973.35,"endTime":976.44,"body":"whilst it's been horrific, for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":976.44,"endTime":978.75,"body":"all sorts of reasons, it does"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":976.44,"endTime":978.75,"body":"feel like this could be a really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":978.75,"endTime":983.97,"body":"fantastic opportunity, maybe for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":978.75,"endTime":983.97,"body":"the industry to reset itself,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":984.06,"endTime":986.13,"body":"pause and go, right? What are we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":984.06,"endTime":986.13,"body":"actually going to do coming out"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":986.13,"endTime":988.86,"body":"of this because we have a moral"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":986.13,"endTime":988.86,"body":"obligation, I think to do better"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":988.86,"endTime":991.02,"body":"than we have done maybe for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":988.86,"endTime":991.02,"body":"society for all the reasons"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":991.02,"endTime":992.04,"body":"you've just talked about."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":992.45,"endTime":994.4,"body":"Couldn't agree"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":992.45,"endTime":994.4,"body":"more, Jaimie. And I think,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":994.4,"endTime":998.12,"body":"again, we've got to be mindful"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":994.4,"endTime":998.12,"body":"that while there's a huge"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":998.12,"endTime":1000.64,"body":"opportunity, if we do this,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":998.12,"endTime":1000.64,"body":"right, we've got to be guarded"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1000.64,"endTime":1003.61,"body":"against some of the risks. So,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1000.64,"endTime":1003.61,"body":"you know, we've got to try and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1003.61,"endTime":1009.13,"body":"resist. And, and, and I suppose"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1003.61,"endTime":1009.13,"body":"report, bad practices are people"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1009.13,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"trying to buy cheap rather than"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1009.13,"endTime":1012.64,"body":"driving value, you know, how we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1012.67,"endTime":1015.19,"body":"we don't want to be driving a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1012.67,"endTime":1015.19,"body":"race to the bottom. And of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1015.19,"endTime":1019.96,"body":"course, it's really important to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1015.19,"endTime":1019.96,"body":"how we shape future policy"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1019.99,"endTime":1023.59,"body":"direction, that we're able to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1019.99,"endTime":1023.59,"body":"evidence how this this approach"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1023.59,"endTime":1027.31,"body":"we're taking now does support"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1023.59,"endTime":1027.31,"body":"those better outcomes. We need"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1027.31,"endTime":1031.09,"body":"to provide more evidence, more"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1027.31,"endTime":1031.09,"body":"data, more measurement that says"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1031.09,"endTime":1034.06,"body":"this way, will deliver these"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1031.09,"endTime":1034.06,"body":"outcomes. And of course, if"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1034.06,"endTime":1037.18,"body":"we're just measuring cost and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1034.06,"endTime":1037.18,"body":"measuring time, we're missing"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1037.18,"endTime":1040.51,"body":"out on demonstrating a really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1037.18,"endTime":1040.51,"body":"strong case for productive"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1040.51,"endTime":1044.02,"body":"growth and greater social value,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1040.51,"endTime":1044.02,"body":"all of those things we seek. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1044.02,"endTime":1047.14,"body":"it's really important, we don't"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1044.02,"endTime":1047.14,"body":"waste the opportunity that's in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1047.14,"endTime":1050.32,"body":"front of us, and we make sure we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1047.14,"endTime":1050.32,"body":"provide that compelling case"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1050.32,"endTime":1053.59,"body":"about this is the right way for"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1050.32,"endTime":1053.59,"body":"us to respond. This is the right"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1053.59,"endTime":1056.74,"body":"way for us to transform the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1053.59,"endTime":1056.74,"body":"sector. And I think we have to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1056.74,"endTime":1060.85,"body":"be realistic, you know that..."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1056.74,"endTime":1060.85,"body":"Even though we might have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1060.85,"endTime":1064.63,"body":"clear idea of what the end state"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1060.85,"endTime":1064.63,"body":"of utopian end state looks like,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1065.02,"endTime":1069.1,"body":"we do need to have a bit of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1065.02,"endTime":1069.1,"body":"flexibility on the path that we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1069.1,"endTime":1071.65,"body":"take to get there. Again,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1069.1,"endTime":1071.65,"body":"working out where we want to go"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1071.65,"endTime":1075.85,"body":"is quite easy. Making sure we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1071.65,"endTime":1075.85,"body":"get the right path to get there"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1076.0,"endTime":1079.72,"body":"is equally important. So we have"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1076.0,"endTime":1079.72,"body":"to have some flexibility on how"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1079.72,"endTime":1082.84,"body":"we make that journey. I don't"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1079.72,"endTime":1082.84,"body":"think we want to compromise on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1082.84,"endTime":1086.71,"body":"the destination. But I do think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1082.84,"endTime":1086.71,"body":"we need to have some flexibility"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1086.89,"endTime":1089.98,"body":"in the approach we take to get"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1086.89,"endTime":1089.98,"body":"there, it's really important"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1089.98,"endTime":1093.94,"body":"that we don't rush down the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1089.98,"endTime":1093.94,"body":"wrong path for political"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1093.94,"endTime":1097.54,"body":"expediency or, or short term"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1093.94,"endTime":1097.54,"body":"measures. And we keep our eye on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1097.54,"endTime":1100.84,"body":"that prize at the end, and make"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1097.54,"endTime":1100.84,"body":"sure we're able to respond to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1100.84,"endTime":1105.1,"body":"the emerging needs. It may be"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1100.84,"endTime":1105.1,"body":"that a future government places"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1105.1,"endTime":1109.18,"body":"greater emphasis on carbon, or"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1105.1,"endTime":1109.18,"body":"greater emphasis on social"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1109.18,"endTime":1113.89,"body":"value, or any other sort of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1109.18,"endTime":1113.89,"body":"variants on that how we respond"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1113.89,"endTime":1116.65,"body":"to that to make sure we we move"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1113.89,"endTime":1116.65,"body":"in the right direction at the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1116.65,"endTime":1119.74,"body":"right pace. So we don't lose the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1116.65,"endTime":1119.74,"body":"opportunity that is really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1119.74,"endTime":1122.77,"body":"important. And that requires us"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1119.74,"endTime":1122.77,"body":"to be working much more joined"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1122.77,"endTime":1126.46,"body":"up as a sector. And again, the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1122.77,"endTime":1126.46,"body":"CLC and its convening power will"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1126.46,"endTime":1128.5,"body":"be a crucial ingredient in that."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1129.65,"endTime":1132.29,"body":"So I do want to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1129.65,"endTime":1132.29,"body":"come on to that utopian state,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1132.29,"endTime":1135.41,"body":"but just on that sort of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1132.29,"endTime":1135.41,"body":"changing the or responding to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1135.41,"endTime":1138.8,"body":"the changing context. One of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1135.41,"endTime":1138.8,"body":"things that you said that most"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1138.8,"endTime":1143.18,"body":"stuck in my head years ago was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1138.8,"endTime":1143.18,"body":"that BIM level one was doing the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1143.18,"endTime":1145.49,"body":"thing you were always supposed"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1143.18,"endTime":1145.49,"body":"to be doing BIM level two was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1145.49,"endTime":1148.37,"body":"doing the same thing better BIM,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1145.49,"endTime":1148.37,"body":"level three was a different"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1148.37,"endTime":1151.16,"body":"thing. And we don't really talk"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1148.37,"endTime":1151.16,"body":"about BIM level three, it was a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1151.16,"endTime":1155.57,"body":"sort of mystical land of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1151.16,"endTime":1155.57,"body":"opportunity that we never really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1155.57,"endTime":1158.66,"body":"got to I it feels to me, like"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1155.57,"endTime":1158.66,"body":"maybe BIM level three is, you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1158.66,"endTime":1160.46,"body":"know, that's what we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1158.66,"endTime":1160.46,"body":"currently talking about digital"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1164.15,"body":"twins, and some of those things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1160.46,"endTime":1164.15,"body":"that are maybe the we couldn't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1164.15,"endTime":1166.61,"body":"define BIM level three at the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1164.15,"endTime":1166.61,"body":"time, because we didn't know"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1166.61,"endTime":1169.49,"body":"where we were going. Whereas now"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1166.61,"endTime":1169.49,"body":"we've sort of dropped that that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1169.58,"endTime":1172.22,"body":"nomenclature but maybe this is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1169.58,"endTime":1172.22,"body":"what BIM level three looks like."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1172.22,"endTime":1176.24,"body":"So I think that's an example of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1172.22,"endTime":1176.24,"body":"setting a direction of travel,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1176.51,"endTime":1179.18,"body":"maybe course correcting as we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1176.51,"endTime":1179.18,"body":"went, but maybe this what we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1179.18,"endTime":1181.22,"body":"doing now is actually what we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1179.18,"endTime":1181.22,"body":"really meant we couldn't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1181.22,"endTime":1183.65,"body":"articulate it back in the day,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1181.22,"endTime":1183.65,"body":"and if you agree,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1183.96,"endTime":1185.49,"body":"yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1183.96,"endTime":1185.49,"body":"that's right. So I mean, BIM,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1185.52,"endTime":1188.91,"body":"the BIM level two program is"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1185.52,"endTime":1188.91,"body":"really about digitizing the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1188.91,"endTime":1192.24,"body":"design and construction of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1188.91,"endTime":1192.24,"body":"projects. I think when we start"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1192.24,"endTime":1196.29,"body":"thinking about how do we then"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1192.24,"endTime":1196.29,"body":"move into understanding and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1196.29,"endTime":1200.22,"body":"measuring and digitizing the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1196.29,"endTime":1200.22,"body":"performance in service of These"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1200.22,"endTime":1204.06,"body":"assets, and then how we use that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1200.22,"endTime":1204.06,"body":"data, not just within the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1204.06,"endTime":1206.97,"body":"project or not even just within"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1204.06,"endTime":1206.97,"body":"the asset, but to help us"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1206.97,"endTime":1210.66,"body":"understand sort of network and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1206.97,"endTime":1210.66,"body":"system level impacts of that."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1210.66,"endTime":1214.23,"body":"How does a, an energy project"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1210.66,"endTime":1214.23,"body":"and a transport project and a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1214.23,"endTime":1217.65,"body":"schools project and a housing"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1214.23,"endTime":1217.65,"body":"scheme interact? And how do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1217.65,"endTime":1221.79,"body":"understand the digital twins in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1217.65,"endTime":1221.79,"body":"the Federated digital twins,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1222.03,"endTime":1226.11,"body":"that enable us to understand how"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1222.03,"endTime":1226.11,"body":"things are performing, and make"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1226.11,"endTime":1229.02,"body":"decisions on how we want to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1226.11,"endTime":1229.02,"body":"intervene or how it may shape"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1229.02,"endTime":1233.19,"body":"policy environment. So BIM,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1229.02,"endTime":1233.19,"body":"level two was very much. And the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1233.19,"endTime":1236.49,"body":"program both you and I are on,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1233.19,"endTime":1236.49,"body":"in that, in that dingy basement"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1236.49,"endTime":1239.49,"body":"in BEIS, all those years ago,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1236.49,"endTime":1239.49,"body":"was very much focused on the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1239.49,"endTime":1243.51,"body":"capital phase of a single"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1239.49,"endTime":1243.51,"body":"construction project. Whereas I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1243.51,"endTime":1246.18,"body":"think when we're moving into"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1243.51,"endTime":1246.18,"body":"digital twin world, we're"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1246.18,"endTime":1250.05,"body":"talking about the whole life of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1246.18,"endTime":1250.05,"body":"an asset, and how that asset"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1250.08,"endTime":1253.47,"body":"interacts and integrates with"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1250.08,"endTime":1253.47,"body":"its environment and those assets"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1253.47,"endTime":1257.64,"body":"around it. And that data, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1253.47,"endTime":1257.64,"body":"that insight, and that knowledge"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1257.76,"endTime":1261.39,"body":"will really help us drive better"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1257.76,"endTime":1261.39,"body":"decisions that support those"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1261.39,"endTime":1264.15,"body":"broader outcomes. And then I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1261.39,"endTime":1264.15,"body":"think we'll see the power of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1264.15,"endTime":1267.15,"body":"data and the value of data, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1264.15,"endTime":1267.15,"body":"how that's going to drive and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1267.15,"endTime":1270.99,"body":"shape decisions increasing"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1267.15,"endTime":1270.99,"body":"exponentially over the over the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1270.99,"endTime":1271.8,"body":"coming years."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1272.14,"endTime":1274.75,"body":"And if you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1272.14,"endTime":1274.75,"body":"could be mindful all the things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1274.75,"endTime":1277.93,"body":"about being aware of the risks."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1274.75,"endTime":1277.93,"body":"I wrote a thing recently for the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1277.93,"endTime":1281.08,"body":"Hub about what I think the end"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1277.93,"endTime":1281.08,"body":"state, the utopian state looks"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1281.08,"endTime":1283.6,"body":"like for Platforms, can you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1281.08,"endTime":1283.6,"body":"speculate a bit on where you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1283.6,"endTime":1285.94,"body":"think this is all heading, what"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1283.6,"endTime":1285.94,"body":"that what that might look like,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1285.94,"endTime":1288.34,"body":"or what it might mean for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1285.94,"endTime":1288.34,"body":"construction for society, for"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1288.34,"endTime":1288.76,"body":"economy?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1288.84,"endTime":1291.03,"body":"Yeah, I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1288.84,"endTime":1291.03,"body":"we've got to be clearer and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1291.03,"endTime":1294.18,"body":"articulate and get people to buy"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1291.03,"endTime":1294.18,"body":"into that end state. Again,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1294.24,"endTime":1297.12,"body":"having that end vision is really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1294.24,"endTime":1297.12,"body":"important, but then, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1297.15,"endTime":1299.73,"body":"understanding the path we want"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1297.15,"endTime":1299.73,"body":"to get there. So I see in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1299.73,"endTime":1306.51,"body":"future, if you like a digital"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1299.73,"endTime":1306.51,"body":"marketplace, where products and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1306.57,"endTime":1310.62,"body":"sub assemblies and systems sit a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1306.57,"endTime":1310.62,"body":"bit like something like an"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1310.62,"endTime":1313.77,"body":"Amazon Marketplace, that might"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1310.62,"endTime":1313.77,"body":"have an Amazon digital"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1313.77,"endTime":1317.16,"body":"marketplace at the moment. But"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1313.77,"endTime":1317.16,"body":"actually, rather than just any"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1317.16,"endTime":1322.44,"body":"old stuff being on there, which"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1317.16,"endTime":1322.44,"body":"Amazon has, at the moment, I'm"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1322.44,"endTime":1324.99,"body":"thinking about, we make sure the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1322.44,"endTime":1324.99,"body":"only products that are in that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1324.99,"endTime":1329.61,"body":"digital marketplace are those"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1324.99,"endTime":1329.61,"body":"that support and provide the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1329.61,"endTime":1332.28,"body":"data that allows us to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1329.61,"endTime":1332.28,"body":"understand what jobs they've"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1332.28,"endTime":1336.93,"body":"supported, how they help deliver"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1332.28,"endTime":1336.93,"body":"social impacts, how they support"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1336.93,"endTime":1340.05,"body":"a path to net zero, how they can"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1336.93,"endTime":1340.05,"body":"demonstrate their safe, they"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1340.05,"endTime":1343.29,"body":"comply with regulations, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1340.05,"endTime":1343.29,"body":"standards, you know, and all the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1343.29,"endTime":1346.2,"body":"various data that sits around"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1343.29,"endTime":1346.2,"body":"there. And I would like to think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1346.2,"endTime":1350.25,"body":"that the suppliers who operate"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1346.2,"endTime":1350.25,"body":"in that world would need to have"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1350.25,"endTime":1354.27,"body":"a certain quality and ethical"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1350.25,"endTime":1354.27,"body":"thresholds to be allowed to work"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1354.27,"endTime":1357.36,"body":"in that marketplace. So I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1354.27,"endTime":1357.36,"body":"buildings will be configured"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1357.57,"endTime":1361.38,"body":"from kits of parts increasingly"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1357.57,"endTime":1361.38,"body":"in the future, they'll put a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1361.38,"endTime":1364.32,"body":"much large proportion of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1361.38,"endTime":1364.32,"body":"built environment. But I would"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1364.32,"endTime":1368.46,"body":"like those kits or parts to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1364.32,"endTime":1368.46,"body":"interoperable. I would like"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1368.46,"endTime":1371.64,"body":"there to be common interface"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1368.46,"endTime":1371.64,"body":"standards and rules, and have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1371.64,"endTime":1374.91,"body":"clear route to market for people"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1371.64,"endTime":1374.91,"body":"who are developing innovative"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1374.91,"endTime":1379.41,"body":"new solutions and products. It"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1374.91,"endTime":1379.41,"body":"may be, for example, that you"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1379.41,"endTime":1382.95,"body":"have a particular cladding"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1379.41,"endTime":1382.95,"body":"system that you have developed"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1382.95,"endTime":1385.35,"body":"as a supplier, you know, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1382.95,"endTime":1385.35,"body":"want to understand the route to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1385.35,"endTime":1389.58,"body":"market if this product is really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1385.35,"endTime":1389.58,"body":"energy efficient, and supports"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1389.58,"endTime":1393.21,"body":"local jobs, that should be part"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1389.58,"endTime":1393.21,"body":"of the value based decision for"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1393.21,"endTime":1396.57,"body":"how that is deployed. But we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1393.21,"endTime":1396.57,"body":"can't, at the moment, create"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1396.57,"endTime":1399.75,"body":"that marketplace because we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1396.57,"endTime":1399.75,"body":"haven't got a clear set of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1399.75,"endTime":1404.4,"body":"rules. We've got far too many"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1399.75,"endTime":1404.4,"body":"different systems and ecosystems"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1404.4,"endTime":1408.84,"body":"that are not yet interoperable."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1404.4,"endTime":1408.84,"body":"We don't make decisions based on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1408.84,"endTime":1412.44,"body":"value and outcomes, we still"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1408.84,"endTime":1412.44,"body":"make decisions based on cost and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1412.44,"endTime":1415.86,"body":"cost alone, costs will always be"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1412.44,"endTime":1415.86,"body":"important initial capital costs"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1415.86,"endTime":1419.01,"body":"and whole life costs. But it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1415.86,"endTime":1419.01,"body":"part of a balanced scorecard of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1419.22,"endTime":1423.15,"body":"value metrics and value drivers"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1419.22,"endTime":1423.15,"body":"that we need to consider. So I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1423.15,"endTime":1426.39,"body":"see a digital marketplace being"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1423.15,"endTime":1426.39,"body":"a key part of the future"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1426.39,"endTime":1429.36,"body":"environment. But let's be clear,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1426.39,"endTime":1429.36,"body":"we're not going to transform the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1429.36,"endTime":1434.19,"body":"entire sector at the flick of a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1429.36,"endTime":1434.19,"body":"switch overnight. So that's why"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1434.19,"endTime":1437.7,"body":"the journey from where we are"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1434.19,"endTime":1437.7,"body":"now to that utopian end state"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1437.7,"endTime":1440.94,"body":"becomes really important."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1437.7,"endTime":1440.94,"body":"There's no point in having a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1441.15,"endTime":1445.41,"body":"fantastic technical solution in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1441.15,"endTime":1445.41,"body":"10 years time, if there's no one"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1445.41,"endTime":1448.44,"body":"able to buy it. And there's no"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1445.41,"endTime":1448.44,"body":"capability and capacity in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1448.44,"endTime":1451.35,"body":"industry to be able to deliver"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1448.44,"endTime":1451.35,"body":"it. So we need to bring clients"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1451.35,"endTime":1453.87,"body":"with us. We need to bring"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1451.35,"endTime":1453.87,"body":"policymakers with us. We need to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1453.87,"endTime":1457.02,"body":"bring the market with us. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1453.87,"endTime":1457.02,"body":"people are increasingly able to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1457.02,"endTime":1460.77,"body":"develop and bring to market"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1457.02,"endTime":1460.77,"body":"those solutions that support"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1460.77,"endTime":1463.05,"body":"that utopian vision you"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1460.77,"endTime":1463.05,"body":"described, Jaimie?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1464.59,"endTime":1467.05,"body":"So I've been"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1464.59,"endTime":1467.05,"body":"I've been reading a whole load"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1467.05,"endTime":1471.01,"body":"of books about the founding of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1467.05,"endTime":1471.01,"body":"Google Facebook. I'm reading"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1471.01,"endTime":1473.32,"body":"Amazon at the moment actually."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1471.01,"endTime":1473.32,"body":"It's fascinating stuff. So when"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1473.32,"endTime":1477.1,"body":"you talk about the Amazon"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1473.32,"endTime":1477.1,"body":"Marketplace, obviously all of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1477.1,"endTime":1479.86,"body":"those types of industries were"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1477.1,"endTime":1479.86,"body":"massively disrupted by someone"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1479.86,"endTime":1482.95,"body":"who came in you know, Jeff Bezos"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1479.86,"endTime":1482.95,"body":"didn't feel constrained by the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1482.95,"endTime":1486.37,"body":"normal rules of retail and tip"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1482.95,"endTime":1486.37,"body":"the thing on its head but the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1486.37,"endTime":1488.95,"body":"same time we look at automotive"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1486.37,"endTime":1488.95,"body":"and there was massive"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1488.95,"endTime":1491.41,"body":"consolidation from there used to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1488.95,"endTime":1491.41,"body":"be hundreds of little car"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1491.41,"endTime":1493.75,"body":"manufacturers now there's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1491.41,"endTime":1493.75,"body":"there's a handful because he no"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1493.75,"endTime":1498.1,"body":"one knows where there's going."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1493.75,"endTime":1498.1,"body":"Do you think the construction"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1498.97,"endTime":1501.73,"body":"call them tier one Now but their"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1498.97,"endTime":1501.73,"body":"construction come to the future."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1501.73,"endTime":1504.13,"body":"Do you think it's the existing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1501.73,"endTime":1504.13,"body":"ones? But a variation of them?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1504.13,"endTime":1506.26,"body":"Do you think it's disruptors"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1504.13,"endTime":1506.26,"body":"will come into that mix of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1506.26,"endTime":1508.69,"body":"those? Or? Obviously it's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1506.26,"endTime":1508.69,"body":"guesswork. But if you had to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1508.69,"endTime":1510.88,"body":"speculate, where do you think"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1508.69,"endTime":1510.88,"body":"this is heading? Do you think"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1510.88,"endTime":1513.73,"body":"it's going to be the evolution"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1510.88,"endTime":1513.73,"body":"of our current current players?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1513.73,"endTime":1515.56,"body":"Or do you think it's going to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1513.73,"endTime":1515.56,"body":"open it up for a whole load of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1515.56,"endTime":1517.87,"body":"new players who suddenly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1515.56,"endTime":1517.87,"body":"wouldn't have come in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1520.99,"body":"construction go, oh, now your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1517.87,"endTime":1520.99,"body":"data lead manufacturers? Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1520.99,"endTime":1523.36,"body":"can, I can help there, I can"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1520.99,"endTime":1523.36,"body":"step into that space."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1523.57,"endTime":1526.84,"body":"If you look at the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1523.57,"endTime":1526.84,"body":"top 20 contractors, league"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1526.84,"endTime":1531.34,"body":"tables that are published every"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1526.84,"endTime":1531.34,"body":"year, you will see more or less"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1531.34,"endTime":1534.19,"body":"the same people moving up and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1531.34,"endTime":1534.19,"body":"down every now and again, one"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1534.19,"endTime":1536.92,"body":"goes pop be it a Jarvis or"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1534.19,"endTime":1536.92,"body":"Carillion. And there is a new"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1536.92,"endTime":1540.7,"body":"entrant coming in. But it's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1536.92,"endTime":1540.7,"body":"largely the same people who move"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1540.7,"endTime":1544.63,"body":"up and down that league table, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1540.7,"endTime":1544.63,"body":"think a number of those players"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1544.63,"endTime":1547.24,"body":"will still be there and really"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1544.63,"endTime":1547.24,"body":"powerful parts of the market in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1547.24,"endTime":1550.21,"body":"the future. But I do genuinely"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1547.24,"endTime":1550.21,"body":"believe there'll be disruptors"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1550.21,"endTime":1553.78,"body":"coming in. And it's not just"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1550.21,"endTime":1553.78,"body":"that, I also think some of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1554.56,"endTime":1557.23,"body":"some of the current tier ones in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1554.56,"endTime":1557.23,"body":"this space will start to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1557.26,"endTime":1560.59,"body":"diversify the services they"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1557.26,"endTime":1560.59,"body":"offer. So it will be about"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1560.77,"endTime":1564.52,"body":"providing whole life solutions,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1560.77,"endTime":1564.52,"body":"rather than just capital assets."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1564.76,"endTime":1570.43,"body":"Some may choose to be developing"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1564.76,"endTime":1570.43,"body":"products, that they can license"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1570.43,"endTime":1573.67,"body":"and be used by other contractors"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1570.43,"endTime":1573.67,"body":"in that space, particularly if"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1573.67,"endTime":1576.37,"body":"we're in a manufacturing space."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1573.67,"endTime":1576.37,"body":"And of course, we think about"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1576.37,"endTime":1579.31,"body":"the disruption not just to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1576.37,"endTime":1579.31,"body":"contractors, but to consultants"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1579.31,"endTime":1582.94,"body":"models as well. You know, at the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1579.31,"endTime":1582.94,"body":"moment, many, many consultants,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1582.94,"endTime":1587.59,"body":"business models are based on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1582.94,"endTime":1587.59,"body":"making their money by selling"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1587.59,"endTime":1592.21,"body":"man hours, you know, selling the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1587.59,"endTime":1592.21,"body":"hours that they do on procured"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1592.21,"endTime":1596.5,"body":"design services, I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1592.21,"endTime":1596.5,"body":"increasingly, we'll see people"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1596.5,"endTime":1599.65,"body":"perhaps developing products and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1596.5,"endTime":1599.65,"body":"solutions, and selling those"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1599.65,"endTime":1602.77,"body":"products and solutions, not in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1599.65,"endTime":1602.77,"body":"an hour's basis, but on outcome"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1602.77,"endTime":1606.4,"body":"and a value based way forward."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1602.77,"endTime":1606.4,"body":"So if you invest a bit like an"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1606.4,"endTime":1609.97,"body":"app developer, developing your"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1606.4,"endTime":1609.97,"body":"product, you don't necessarily"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1609.97,"endTime":1613.09,"body":"get paid to develop your"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1609.97,"endTime":1613.09,"body":"product. But you do get paid for"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1613.09,"endTime":1616.51,"body":"how many times it's bought. And"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1613.09,"endTime":1616.51,"body":"at the moment, the traditional"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1616.51,"endTime":1619.42,"body":"model that we work at the moment"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1616.51,"endTime":1619.42,"body":"is you get paid for it once and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1619.42,"endTime":1623.35,"body":"it gets used once, you know, but"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1619.42,"endTime":1623.35,"body":"you don't you don't you don't"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1623.35,"endTime":1626.71,"body":"start developing until someone's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1623.35,"endTime":1626.71,"body":"paying for you. Now, if we think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1626.71,"endTime":1628.99,"body":"about actually, I think there's"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1626.71,"endTime":1628.99,"body":"a really good market for one of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1628.99,"endTime":1632.41,"body":"these solutions, I will develop"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1628.99,"endTime":1632.41,"body":"a product or a solution that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1632.41,"endTime":1635.5,"body":"fulfills that need. And I'll"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1632.41,"endTime":1635.5,"body":"make my money by how many times"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1635.5,"endTime":1638.83,"body":"I can sell it, or how many times"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1635.5,"endTime":1638.83,"body":"I can license it. In the UK and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1638.83,"endTime":1642.43,"body":"overseas. I think we'll see a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1638.83,"endTime":1642.43,"body":"diversification of range of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1642.43,"endTime":1645.34,"body":"services that the current"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1642.43,"endTime":1645.34,"body":"players operating. And I will"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1645.34,"endTime":1648.1,"body":"see. And I also see that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1645.34,"endTime":1648.1,"body":"there'll be some disruptors who"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1648.1,"endTime":1652.15,"body":"come in for data, your it will"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1648.1,"endTime":1652.15,"body":"be a key driver of that people"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1652.15,"endTime":1655.75,"body":"understanding how they can use"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1652.15,"endTime":1655.75,"body":"data and offer different"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1655.75,"endTime":1658.69,"body":"products and services, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1655.75,"endTime":1658.69,"body":"operate, you know, offering, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1658.69,"endTime":1661.03,"body":"know, availability or"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1658.69,"endTime":1661.03,"body":"operational performance, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1661.03,"endTime":1665.14,"body":"then the capital cost is just a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1661.03,"endTime":1665.14,"body":"sort of a blip on that overall"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1665.14,"endTime":1668.68,"body":"service off offering that they"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1665.14,"endTime":1668.68,"body":"bring into market. So I think"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1668.68,"endTime":1672.22,"body":"we'll see some big disruptors."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1668.68,"endTime":1672.22,"body":"And I think we'll see many of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1672.22,"endTime":1675.85,"body":"the current players, disrupting"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1672.22,"endTime":1675.85,"body":"their own business models to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1675.85,"endTime":1679.15,"body":"broaden the range of services"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1675.85,"endTime":1679.15,"body":"and income streams that they're"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1679.15,"endTime":1683.56,"body":"able to generate from that. So I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1679.15,"endTime":1683.56,"body":"think pure contracting in its in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1683.56,"endTime":1687.01,"body":"its current widely understood"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1683.56,"endTime":1687.01,"body":"form, is going to be a smaller"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1687.01,"endTime":1689.86,"body":"part of the market. So the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1687.01,"endTime":1689.86,"body":"people who are currently in it,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1690.25,"endTime":1693.01,"body":"are going to have to think about"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1690.25,"endTime":1693.01,"body":"how do they diversify or broaden"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1693.01,"endTime":1695.62,"body":"their product range, to be able"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1693.01,"endTime":1695.62,"body":"to respond to what happens in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1695.62,"endTime":1698.32,"body":"the future. But let's be frank,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1695.62,"endTime":1698.32,"body":"Jaimie, this is not a five"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1698.32,"endTime":1701.2,"body":"minute transformation. Again,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1698.32,"endTime":1701.2,"body":"this is a long term journey. So"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1701.2,"endTime":1704.65,"body":"there'll be plenty of signals of"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1701.2,"endTime":1704.65,"body":"what the path should be. But I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1704.65,"endTime":1707.29,"body":"think going back to your earlier"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1704.65,"endTime":1707.29,"body":"point, if we're able to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1707.29,"endTime":1710.83,"body":"articulate that end state and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1707.29,"endTime":1710.83,"body":"that vision, in a compelling way"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1710.83,"endTime":1714.19,"body":"that people can get behind, then"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1710.83,"endTime":1714.19,"body":"people will be able to plot"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1714.19,"endTime":1717.28,"body":"their own path and journey that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1714.19,"endTime":1717.28,"body":"they need to take as businesses"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1717.28,"endTime":1720.7,"body":"and their services to help align"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1717.28,"endTime":1720.7,"body":"with that end state. But it's a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1720.7,"endTime":1723.19,"body":"very clear direction of travel,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1720.7,"endTime":1723.19,"body":"we are not going to be doing"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1723.34,"endTime":1725.95,"body":"what we currently do in the way"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1723.34,"endTime":1725.95,"body":"we currently do it in the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1725.95,"endTime":1726.46,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1727.32,"endTime":1729.9,"body":"Brilliant. So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1727.32,"endTime":1729.9,"body":"going back to the start of a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1729.9,"endTime":1734.58,"body":"conversation, one of the key"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1729.9,"endTime":1734.58,"body":"things I thought worked really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1734.58,"endTime":1737.85,"body":"well about the BIM standards was"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1734.58,"endTime":1737.85,"body":"that they were we put them out"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1737.88,"endTime":1741.36,"body":"into the international"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1737.88,"endTime":1741.36,"body":"community. And very quickly,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1741.36,"endTime":1743.88,"body":"they became adopted almost as"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1741.36,"endTime":1743.88,"body":"the de facto standards obviously"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1743.88,"endTime":1747.78,"body":"turned into things like the EA"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1743.88,"endTime":1747.78,"body":"and ISO 650. It feels like"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1747.78,"endTime":1750.33,"body":"there's a huge opportunity to do"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1747.78,"endTime":1750.33,"body":"the same again, with Platform"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1750.33,"endTime":1752.7,"body":"thinking and all the work we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1750.33,"endTime":1752.7,"body":"currently doing. Like the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1752.7,"endTime":1756.78,"body":"challenges we're trying to solve"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1752.7,"endTime":1756.78,"body":"a global challenges feels like"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1756.78,"endTime":1759.3,"body":"if we make some headway. There's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1756.78,"endTime":1759.3,"body":"a massive international market."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1759.3,"endTime":1763.05,"body":"And you can see the rest of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1759.3,"endTime":1763.05,"body":"world starting to look into"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1763.05,"endTime":1764.94,"body":"industrialized construction,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1763.05,"endTime":1764.94,"body":"calling it slightly different"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1764.94,"endTime":1767.58,"body":"terms, but it seems to be the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1764.94,"endTime":1767.58,"body":"same fundamental drive globally."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1767.85,"endTime":1769.92,"body":"Do you think that's something we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1767.85,"endTime":1769.92,"body":"should be considering more"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1770.16,"endTime":1772.8,"body":"longer term about how we start"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1770.16,"endTime":1772.8,"body":"to propagate this stuff outside"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1772.8,"endTime":1773.37,"body":"the UK?"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1773.69,"endTime":1775.94,"body":"Absolutely. And I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1773.69,"endTime":1775.94,"body":"think there's a real opportunity"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1775.94,"endTime":1779.33,"body":"if we can join up across a few"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1775.94,"endTime":1779.33,"body":"different things. What we've"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1779.33,"endTime":1782.87,"body":"seen, historically, and the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1779.33,"endTime":1782.87,"body":"International BIM Pro is a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1782.87,"endTime":1786.41,"body":"really good example of going out"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1782.87,"endTime":1786.41,"body":"there, engaging with foreign"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1786.41,"endTime":1790.1,"body":"governments and all throughout"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1786.41,"endTime":1790.1,"body":"the world and forming a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1790.13,"endTime":1793.31,"body":"community, which is promoting it"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1790.13,"endTime":1793.31,"body":"as sort of approach and a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1793.31,"endTime":1796.82,"body":"process that really supports"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1793.31,"endTime":1796.82,"body":"better delivery. Actually,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1797.45,"endTime":1801.44,"body":"there's a real chance now to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1797.45,"endTime":1801.44,"body":"start thinking What is it apart"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1801.44,"endTime":1805.25,"body":"from BIM that the UK businesses"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1801.44,"endTime":1805.25,"body":"can offer to those international"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1805.25,"endTime":1808.49,"body":"markets? Now, we have a number"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1805.25,"endTime":1808.49,"body":"of areas where we are, you know,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1808.49,"endTime":1811.76,"body":"world leaders and highly"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1808.49,"endTime":1811.76,"body":"regarded, not just in BIM. So we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1811.76,"endTime":1815.81,"body":"are in a world leading in, in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1811.76,"endTime":1815.81,"body":"finance, in insurance products,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1815.81,"endTime":1818.78,"body":"finance products, that that are"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1815.81,"endTime":1818.78,"body":"required by communities and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1818.78,"endTime":1821.33,"body":"governments who want to deliver"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1818.78,"endTime":1821.33,"body":"their infrastructure and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1821.33,"endTime":1825.41,"body":"construction programs. We've got"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1821.33,"endTime":1825.41,"body":"the BIM opportunity that plays"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1825.41,"endTime":1828.44,"body":"in that we've got all the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1825.41,"endTime":1828.44,"body":"various digital tools that are"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1828.44,"endTime":1831.53,"body":"being developed and coming to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1828.44,"endTime":1831.53,"body":"market now. Even things like the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1831.53,"endTime":1834.62,"body":"value toolkit coming out of the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1831.53,"endTime":1834.62,"body":"Hub, how do we help governments"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1834.62,"endTime":1837.65,"body":"make choices that support their"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1834.62,"endTime":1837.65,"body":"ambitions, the value drivers in"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1837.65,"endTime":1841.01,"body":"Colombia or Peru, are not going"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1837.65,"endTime":1841.01,"body":"to be exactly the same as they"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1841.01,"endTime":1844.82,"body":"are in the United Kingdom. But"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1841.01,"endTime":1844.82,"body":"actually, how do we help them"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1844.82,"endTime":1847.91,"body":"make choices that support the"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1844.82,"endTime":1847.91,"body":"outcomes that meet their own"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1847.91,"endTime":1851.33,"body":"local needs, their own projects,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1847.91,"endTime":1851.33,"body":"their own communities. So I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1851.33,"endTime":1854.48,"body":"think the technical services and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1851.33,"endTime":1854.48,"body":"the products that we are"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1854.48,"endTime":1858.08,"body":"developing here in the UK will"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1854.48,"endTime":1858.08,"body":"become increasingly exportable"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1858.08,"endTime":1861.11,"body":"and marketable. But again, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1858.08,"endTime":1861.11,"body":"think we need to try and have a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1861.11,"endTime":1864.14,"body":"much more joined up and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1861.11,"endTime":1864.14,"body":"collaborative approach to how we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1864.14,"endTime":1869.12,"body":"bring the UK construction value"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1864.14,"endTime":1869.12,"body":"proposition to market. If we go"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1869.12,"endTime":1873.05,"body":"in on every single initiative,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1869.12,"endTime":1873.05,"body":"with blinkers on talking just"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1873.05,"endTime":1876.44,"body":"about that, I think we'll miss"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1873.05,"endTime":1876.44,"body":"some of the opportunities that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1876.44,"endTime":1879.92,"body":"will come from selling UK"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1876.44,"endTime":1879.92,"body":"expertise and British expertise."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1880.19,"endTime":1883.46,"body":"And it may be BIM unlocks value"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1880.19,"endTime":1883.46,"body":"or value unlocks finance, or"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1883.46,"endTime":1887.24,"body":"finance unlocks BIM, whatever"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1883.46,"endTime":1887.24,"body":"it's going to be, but there is a"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1887.27,"endTime":1893.06,"body":"real chance to develop a UK"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1887.27,"endTime":1893.06,"body":"brand construction approach that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1893.06,"endTime":1895.91,"body":"we can sell internationally, I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1893.06,"endTime":1895.91,"body":"don't think we want to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1895.91,"endTime":1899.21,"body":"competing internationally on how"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1895.91,"endTime":1899.21,"body":"cheap we can provide labor and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1899.21,"endTime":1902.54,"body":"concrete. What we want to be"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1899.21,"endTime":1902.54,"body":"competing on is how much value"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1902.54,"endTime":1905.69,"body":"we can add, and how we can help"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1902.54,"endTime":1905.69,"body":"support the delivery of, you"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1905.69,"endTime":1908.39,"body":"know, the infrastructure and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1905.69,"endTime":1908.39,"body":"development plans of economies"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1908.39,"endTime":1910.76,"body":"throughout the world. And I"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1908.39,"endTime":1910.76,"body":"think we have a crucial role to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1910.76,"endTime":1914.72,"body":"play and quite encouraged. Now,"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1910.76,"endTime":1914.72,"body":"even the CLC, working very"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1914.72,"endTime":1917.54,"body":"closely with the Department for"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1914.72,"endTime":1917.54,"body":"International Trade, has started"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1917.54,"endTime":1920.96,"body":"to think about what is that UK"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1917.54,"endTime":1920.96,"body":"value proposition? And what does"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1920.96,"endTime":1923.48,"body":"it mean for businesses like"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1920.96,"endTime":1923.48,"body":"Bryden Wood, Motts and  Arups"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1923.48,"endTime":1927.14,"body":"and other consultants, as well"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1923.48,"endTime":1927.14,"body":"as the big contractors and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1927.14,"endTime":1930.89,"body":"construction managers? How do we"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1927.14,"endTime":1930.89,"body":"get behind a UK value"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1930.89,"endTime":1935.9,"body":"proposition and create something"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1930.89,"endTime":1935.9,"body":"that allows us to export those"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1935.99,"endTime":1938.87,"body":"wonderful technologies and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1935.99,"endTime":1938.87,"body":"services internationally, and"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1938.87,"endTime":1941.84,"body":"develop our capability to"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1938.87,"endTime":1941.84,"body":"service the needs in the UK at"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1941.84,"endTime":1942.44,"body":"the same time."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1943.61,"endTime":1945.38,"body":"So I think by"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1943.61,"endTime":1945.38,"body":"2050, we could be looking back"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1945.38,"endTime":1950.27,"body":"at COVID and Brexit as necessary"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1945.38,"endTime":1950.27,"body":"pain we have to go through to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1950.27,"endTime":1954.17,"body":"lead get the UK to lead the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1950.27,"endTime":1954.17,"body":"global transformation into a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1954.17,"endTime":1958.28,"body":"sustainable and equal global"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1954.17,"endTime":1958.28,"body":"community."},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1962.08,"body":"I'll go halfway"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1958.99,"endTime":1962.08,"body":"and say COVID. Im not"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1962.08,"endTime":1964.24,"body":"necessarily going to think that"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1962.08,"endTime":1964.24,"body":"Brexit is going to be something"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1964.24,"endTime":1967.93,"body":"that's going to help"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1964.24,"endTime":1967.93,"body":"internationalize the UK based on"},{"speaker":"Keith Waller","startTime":1967.93,"endTime":1969.94,"body":"current evidence fairpoint."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1970.32,"endTime":1972.3,"body":"So that's all"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1970.32,"endTime":1972.3,"body":"we got time for for now. Thanks,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1972.3,"endTime":1974.91,"body":"Keith ever so much for joining"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1972.3,"endTime":1974.91,"body":"us. That was fascinating. So I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1974.91,"endTime":1978.03,"body":"really appreciate you spending"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1974.91,"endTime":1978.03,"body":"the time with us. For everyone"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1978.03,"endTime":1980.43,"body":"else. Thanks for listening next"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1978.03,"endTime":1980.43,"body":"month. Please join us when we'll"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1980.43,"endTime":1982.86,"body":"be talking to Helen Hough,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1980.43,"endTime":1982.86,"body":"Bryden Woods Head of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1982.86,"endTime":1985.8,"body":"Sustainability to discuss"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1982.86,"endTime":1985.8,"body":"embodied carbon operational"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1985.8,"endTime":1988.23,"body":"carbon and all things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1985.8,"endTime":1988.23,"body":"sustainability."},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1989.23,"endTime":1992.08,"body":"Thank you for listening"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1989.23,"endTime":1992.08,"body":"to Built Environment Matters. A"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1992.08,"endTime":1995.56,"body":"podcast brought to you by Bryden"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1992.08,"endTime":1995.56,"body":"Wood. Listen and subscribe"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1995.56,"endTime":1998.11,"body":"wherever you get your favorite"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1995.56,"endTime":1998.11,"body":"podcast. And you can follow"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1998.11,"endTime":1999.91,"body":"Bryden Wood on LinkedIn and"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1998.11,"endTime":1999.91,"body":"Twitter."}]}