{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":9.12,"endTime":12.24,"body":"Hello, welcome to Built"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":9.12,"endTime":12.24,"body":"Environment Matters, a monthly"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":12.24,"endTime":15.72,"body":"podcast brought to you by Bryden"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":12.24,"endTime":15.72,"body":"Wood, an international company"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":15.9,"endTime":18.93,"body":"of technologists, designers,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":15.9,"endTime":18.93,"body":"architects, engineers, and"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":18.93,"endTime":22.98,"body":"analysts working for a better"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":18.93,"endTime":22.98,"body":"built environment, Bryden Wood,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":22.98,"endTime":26.94,"body":"believe in Design to Value to"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":22.98,"endTime":26.94,"body":"cut carbon, drive efficiency,"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":27.12,"endTime":30.63,"body":"save time, make beautiful"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":27.12,"endTime":30.63,"body":"places, and build a better"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":30.63,"endTime":31.2,"body":"future."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":33.12,"endTime":35.16,"body":"Hi, and welcome"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":33.12,"endTime":35.16,"body":"to this episode of Built"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":35.19,"endTime":37.98,"body":"Environment Matters, the Bryden"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":35.19,"endTime":37.98,"body":"Wood podcast. I'm Jaimie"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":37.98,"endTime":40.62,"body":"Johnston, the Head of Global"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":37.98,"endTime":40.62,"body":"Systems. And this is Part 2 of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":40.62,"endTime":44.07,"body":"my conversation with Professor"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":40.62,"endTime":44.07,"body":"Jacqui Glass, who's Professor of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":44.1,"endTime":46.83,"body":"Construction Management at"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":44.1,"endTime":46.83,"body":"University College London."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":47.53,"endTime":52.36,"body":"So coming back to the semantics,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":47.53,"endTime":52.36,"body":"yeah, that's an ongoing problem"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":52.39,"endTime":55.03,"body":"that I don't know how we resolve"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":52.39,"endTime":55.03,"body":"it. I mean, I've had I certainly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":55.03,"endTime":57.94,"body":"remember it being really"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":55.03,"endTime":57.94,"body":"difficult in the days of BIM"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":57.94,"endTime":60.7,"body":"when it was first mandated that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":57.94,"endTime":60.7,"body":"one of the genius things I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":60.7,"endTime":64.84,"body":"thought Mark Bew did was not try"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":60.7,"endTime":64.84,"body":"and define what BIM is, is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":64.84,"endTime":67.21,"body":"saying you'll understand the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":64.84,"endTime":67.21,"body":"outcomes once we're doing it,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":67.21,"endTime":69.61,"body":"which was brilliant in one way,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":67.21,"endTime":69.61,"body":"because saying it's been two"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":69.61,"endTime":72.52,"body":"years defining it, but you think"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":69.61,"endTime":72.52,"body":"painfully another way, because"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":72.55,"endTime":74.89,"body":"people spent two years arguing"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":72.55,"endTime":74.89,"body":"about what it meant, we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":74.89,"endTime":76.72,"body":"getting a similar thing with"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":74.89,"endTime":76.72,"body":"Modern Methods of Construction"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":76.72,"endTime":78.49,"body":"now, we're getting similar"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":76.72,"endTime":78.49,"body":"things with Platforms as a sort"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":78.49,"endTime":81.94,"body":"of a growing number of these"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":78.49,"endTime":81.94,"body":"terms that are sort of starting"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":81.94,"endTime":85.39,"body":"to burgeon all over the place,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":81.94,"endTime":85.39,"body":"which is increasingly painful, I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":85.39,"endTime":86.92,"body":"wonder if you can talk a bit"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":85.39,"endTime":86.92,"body":"more about that, and the sort of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":86.92,"endTime":89.11,"body":"challenges it creates, and the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":86.92,"endTime":89.11,"body":"sort of, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":89.2,"endTime":92.62,"body":"miscommunication sometimes that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":89.2,"endTime":92.62,"body":"must get in the way. 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But the the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":105.67,"endTime":109.42,"body":"interesting thing for me is that"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":105.67,"endTime":109.42,"body":"some academics will spend their"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":109.42,"endTime":113.2,"body":"entire careers trying to define"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":109.42,"endTime":113.2,"body":"a term. And actually, in"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":113.2,"endTime":116.65,"body":"academic life, that is an"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":113.2,"endTime":116.65,"body":"entirely legitimate way to spend"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":116.65,"endTime":122.17,"body":"your time. Because it is about"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":116.65,"endTime":122.17,"body":"clarification, and understanding"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":122.35,"endTime":127.21,"body":"and positioning your work. 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Do you think there's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":232.93,"endTime":235.15,"body":"a there's an opportunity we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":235.15,"endTime":237.34,"body":"should be following that within,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":235.15,"endTime":237.34,"body":"you know, Platforms and these"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":237.34,"endTime":239.77,"body":"other things, we should go"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":237.34,"endTime":239.77,"body":"right, you know, the BIM"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":239.77,"endTime":242.8,"body":"standards, were just a way of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":239.77,"endTime":242.8,"body":"clearing a path for all the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":242.8,"endTime":244.81,"body":"things that followed, we could"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":242.8,"endTime":244.81,"body":"lean into this and start to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":244.81,"endTime":246.94,"body":"really export these things. I've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":244.81,"endTime":246.94,"body":"talked to Keith Waller about"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":246.94,"endTime":248.89,"body":"this on this podcast previously,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":246.94,"endTime":248.89,"body":"do you think that's the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":249.61,"endTime":251.59,"body":"opportunity we should be"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":249.61,"endTime":251.59,"body":"focusing on particularly sort of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":251.59,"endTime":253.75,"body":"post Brexit and that we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":251.59,"endTime":253.75,"body":"working on what to do next?"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":254.68,"endTime":257.71,"body":"Well, I've been"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":254.68,"endTime":257.71,"body":"thinking about this for a while"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":257.71,"endTime":263.83,"body":"because I think, does it go back"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":257.71,"endTime":263.83,"body":"to Construction 2025 where we"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":263.83,"endTime":267.31,"body":"were talking about the sort of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":263.83,"endTime":267.31,"body":"the value the the export value,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":268.0,"endTime":271.6,"body":"where Peter Hansford was talking"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":268.0,"endTime":271.6,"body":"about the export value of the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":271.6,"endTime":276.49,"body":"skills, the expertise that we"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":271.6,"endTime":276.49,"body":"have in our industry for on"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":276.49,"endTime":280.0,"body":"behalf of the nation. And I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":276.49,"endTime":280.0,"body":"don't think we really understand"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":280.0,"endTime":283.6,"body":"that, to be honest, I don't"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":280.0,"endTime":283.6,"body":"think we know how to exploit it"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":283.6,"endTime":287.83,"body":"particularly well as a sector. I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":283.6,"endTime":287.83,"body":"think some firms do. I think"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":287.86,"endTime":290.74,"body":"obviously Bryden Wood is is one"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":287.86,"endTime":290.74,"body":"of the firms I would probably"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":290.74,"endTime":294.37,"body":"point to and I say that"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":290.74,"endTime":294.37,"body":"genuinely not just because"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":294.37,"endTime":297.88,"body":"you're interviewing me today, of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":294.37,"endTime":297.88,"body":"course, I would, I would cite"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":297.91,"endTime":299.86,"body":"others in that of course. 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For me that I, you"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":342.28,"endTime":346.63,"body":"know, I chaired a BSI committee."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":346.84,"endTime":350.74,"body":"And it's, it was always a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":346.84,"endTime":350.74,"body":"problem, to try to get people to"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":350.74,"endTime":354.64,"body":"take part in standards"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":350.74,"endTime":354.64,"body":"committees. It feels like if"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":354.64,"endTime":357.43,"body":"firms think, Oh, well, it is"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":354.64,"endTime":357.43,"body":"like a charitable donation in"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":357.43,"endTime":360.25,"body":"some respects. 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I don't know"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":436.13,"endTime":437.57,"body":"whether you've had any thoughts"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":436.13,"endTime":437.57,"body":"on that, or whether you've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":437.57,"endTime":439.82,"body":"looked at some other models of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":437.57,"endTime":439.82,"body":"how people write standards,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":439.82,"endTime":442.67,"body":"because it does feel that we do"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":439.82,"endTime":442.67,"body":"yeah, they are absolutely"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":442.67,"endTime":446.06,"body":"critical. But the time and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":442.67,"endTime":446.06,"body":"effort taken and, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":446.06,"endTime":448.01,"body":"way the written does not"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":446.06,"endTime":448.01,"body":"engender, you know, does not"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":448.07,"endTime":451.4,"body":"encourage people to engage in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":448.07,"endTime":451.4,"body":"the same in the way that you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":451.4,"endTime":452.24,"body":"think they should do."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":453.11,"endTime":456.08,"body":"Yeah, I have"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":453.11,"endTime":456.08,"body":"thought about this, because of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":456.08,"endTime":460.46,"body":"the work that I did years ago on"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":456.08,"endTime":460.46,"body":"and trying to still do, amongst"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":460.46,"endTime":463.94,"body":"all the other things around"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":460.46,"endTime":463.94,"body":"responsible sourcing of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":463.94,"endTime":467.27,"body":"construction products. And of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":463.94,"endTime":467.27,"body":"course, the if you like the the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":467.27,"endTime":471.23,"body":"main standard for responsible"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":467.27,"endTime":471.23,"body":"sourcing is a private standard,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":471.5,"endTime":477.41,"body":"created by BRE, BS6001, very"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":471.5,"endTime":477.41,"body":"influential, certified, you"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":477.41,"endTime":480.08,"body":"know, a couple of 100 or so"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":477.41,"endTime":480.08,"body":"products, I think now something"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":480.08,"endTime":486.23,"body":"like that. But it wasn't a the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":480.08,"endTime":486.23,"body":"same sort of standard process,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":486.5,"endTime":489.02,"body":"standardisation process that you"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":486.5,"endTime":489.02,"body":"would have for an ISO, for"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":489.02,"endTime":491.51,"body":"example, completely different"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":489.02,"endTime":491.51,"body":"because it's a private standard."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":491.81,"endTime":494.51,"body":"And actually, I don't think we"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":491.81,"endTime":494.51,"body":"necessarily quite understand the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":494.51,"endTime":497.15,"body":"kind of configuration of the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":494.51,"endTime":497.15,"body":"different options we have"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":497.15,"endTime":500.87,"body":"available to us. 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You know, so I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":522.83,"endTime":525.92,"body":"think there is a challenge in"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":522.83,"endTime":525.92,"body":"understanding where information"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":525.92,"endTime":530.99,"body":"sits and the the relative"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":525.92,"endTime":530.99,"body":"authority and legitimacy that it"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":530.99,"endTime":535.79,"body":"has whether you're in business,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":530.99,"endTime":535.79,"body":"whether you're a client, whether"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":535.79,"endTime":539.69,"body":"you're studying the sector, very"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":535.79,"endTime":539.69,"body":"interesting space, and I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":539.69,"endTime":544.43,"body":"couldn't point to any particular"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":539.69,"endTime":544.43,"body":"source which gives clarity on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":544.0,"endTime":546.46,"body":"Yeah, you've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":544.0,"endTime":546.46,"body":"probably seen the work we did"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":544.43,"endTime":544.97,"body":"that actually,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":546.46,"endTime":550.0,"body":"for the the Hub on the Define"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":546.46,"endTime":550.0,"body":"the Need piece taking all of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":550.72,"endTime":553.03,"body":"cross sector pipeline and put it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":550.72,"endTime":553.03,"body":"into Uniclass, which was an"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":553.03,"endTime":556.39,"body":"incredibly painful exercise,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":553.03,"endTime":556.39,"body":"because no one tried to do it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":556.39,"endTime":560.14,"body":"before. 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So"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":574.66,"endTime":576.67,"body":"suddenly, that's, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":574.66,"endTime":576.67,"body":"massive piece of evidence"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":576.67,"endTime":580.81,"body":"towards the Yeah, how you can"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":576.67,"endTime":580.81,"body":"unlock the Platforms how you can"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":580.81,"endTime":583.21,"body":"unlock this sort of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":580.81,"endTime":583.21,"body":"Industrialized Construction, but"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":583.21,"endTime":587.23,"body":"it was really painful getting"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":583.21,"endTime":587.23,"body":"there. And I'm just very hopeful"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":587.23,"endTime":589.48,"body":"that we don't then leave that as"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":587.23,"endTime":589.48,"body":"a proof of concept and never"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":589.48,"endTime":591.73,"body":"come back to it. You want that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":589.48,"endTime":591.73,"body":"to become you know, more and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":591.73,"endTime":594.19,"body":"more common and more and more"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":591.73,"endTime":594.19,"body":"sort of standardised, but it's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":594.19,"endTime":595.87,"body":"those sorts of things that are"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":594.19,"endTime":595.87,"body":"really going to unleash the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":595.87,"endTime":599.35,"body":"benefit but yeah, there's always"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":595.87,"endTime":599.35,"body":"a suppose in my head interesting"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":599.35,"endTime":602.32,"body":"thing between Everyone wants to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":599.35,"endTime":602.32,"body":"get on and do the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":602.32,"endTime":606.19,"body":"interesting groovy stuff. 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Perseverance"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":661.96,"endTime":666.16,"body":"is for me incredibly important"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":661.96,"endTime":666.16,"body":"in this, if you think about it,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":666.16,"endTime":669.16,"body":"why shouldn't it be, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":666.16,"endTime":669.16,"body":"we're in the business of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":669.16,"endTime":673.18,"body":"creating buildings that we"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":669.16,"endTime":673.18,"body":"expect, generally, to last a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":673.18,"endTime":677.65,"body":"very long time. 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This is only for me, this"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":708.4,"endTime":711.94,"body":"is a this is always a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":708.4,"endTime":711.94,"body":"disappointment when people say"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":712.0,"endTime":715.78,"body":"this, because the building"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":712.0,"endTime":715.78,"body":"regulations are not there to"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":715.78,"endTime":719.98,"body":"inspire the industry. They are"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":715.78,"endTime":719.98,"body":"not there to set our ambition,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":720.25,"endTime":725.26,"body":"right. 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I think it's a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":820.19,"endTime":822.83,"body":"general question that we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":820.19,"endTime":822.83,"body":"asked on this podcast a few"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":822.83,"endTime":825.68,"body":"times is, you know, what's your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":822.83,"endTime":825.68,"body":"prognosis for the kind of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":825.68,"endTime":830.42,"body":"future of the industry? And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":825.68,"endTime":830.42,"body":"particularly, do you see, you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":830.42,"endTime":833.3,"body":"know, the people coming through"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":830.42,"endTime":833.3,"body":"universities? Are we attracting"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":833.3,"endTime":835.85,"body":"the right sort of people into"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":833.3,"endTime":835.85,"body":"construction? Are we missing out"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":835.85,"endTime":837.95,"body":"maybe on people that are not"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":835.85,"endTime":837.95,"body":"coming into construction,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":837.95,"endTime":840.23,"body":"because they don't see it either"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":837.95,"endTime":840.23,"body":"as a place of, you know, some"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":840.23,"endTime":843.65,"body":"really interesting academic"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":840.23,"endTime":843.65,"body":"research? Or that it's, you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":843.65,"endTime":845.42,"body":"know, it doesn't lead anywhere?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":843.65,"endTime":845.42,"body":"Even if you did a piece of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":845.42,"endTime":847.7,"body":"academic research? What's your"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":845.42,"endTime":847.7,"body":"sort of view on that from a from"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":847.7,"endTime":848.9,"body":"a, you know, from your point of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":847.7,"endTime":848.9,"body":"view?"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":848.0,"endTime":855.53,"body":"Yeah, so have you"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":848.0,"endTime":855.53,"body":"got another hour? And, for me,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":850.34,"endTime":1055.51,"body":"Yeah, I mean, we've thought"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":850.34,"endTime":1055.51,"body":"about this a lot. Even if they"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":856.13,"endTime":861.71,"body":"the short answer is 'could do"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":856.13,"endTime":861.71,"body":"better.' Okay. And a number of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":861.71,"endTime":866.24,"body":"reasons why I would say this."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":861.71,"endTime":866.24,"body":"It's always been curious to me"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":866.24,"endTime":869.78,"body":"why we don't have enough women"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":866.24,"endTime":869.78,"body":"in the sector. And of course,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":869.78,"endTime":872.69,"body":"that's, you know, that's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":869.78,"endTime":872.69,"body":"something close to my heart. But"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":872.69,"endTime":875.57,"body":"it's close to many people's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":872.69,"endTime":875.57,"body":"hearts, actually. So the issue"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":875.57,"endTime":878.57,"body":"of gender and race in our"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":875.57,"endTime":878.57,"body":"industry, it's still there."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":879.14,"endTime":882.35,"body":"People are working on it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":879.14,"endTime":882.35,"body":"seeing a lot more activity these"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":882.35,"endTime":886.73,"body":"days than there's ever has been."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":882.35,"endTime":886.73,"body":"So let's, let's set that one"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":886.73,"endTime":894.17,"body":"aside for a moment. If we then"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":886.73,"endTime":894.17,"body":"look at the industry, as and the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":894.2,"endTime":898.64,"body":"academic researchers who are"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":894.2,"endTime":898.64,"body":"part, for me, part of the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":898.64,"endTime":902.63,"body":"industry, let's think about This"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":898.64,"endTime":902.63,"body":"is a whole, what we're not doing"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":902.63,"endTime":909.14,"body":"as a collective is conveying the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":902.63,"endTime":909.14,"body":"level of stimulation, the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":909.17,"endTime":914.09,"body":"interest, the fascination that"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":909.17,"endTime":914.09,"body":"we have, why we're in the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":914.09,"endTime":918.92,"body":"industry and why we stay in the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":914.09,"endTime":918.92,"body":"industry? Why, you know, how do"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":918.92,"endTime":922.7,"body":"we convey that level of interest"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":918.92,"endTime":922.7,"body":"and enthusiasm to people, I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":922.7,"endTime":925.01,"body":"think there's been a lot of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":922.7,"endTime":925.01,"body":"interest and a lot of activity"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":925.01,"endTime":929.54,"body":"on engineering. But there's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":925.01,"endTime":929.54,"body":"something about separating"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":929.54,"endTime":932.48,"body":"construction from engineering"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":929.54,"endTime":932.48,"body":"that we have to do, and the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":932.48,"endTime":935.72,"body":"language that we talk about. So"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":932.48,"endTime":935.72,"body":"one of the things I'm really"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":935.72,"endTime":940.22,"body":"interested in is trying to look"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":935.72,"endTime":940.22,"body":"at the skills that we need, the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":940.22,"endTime":943.88,"body":"competencies that we need. And"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":940.22,"endTime":943.88,"body":"you know, the first things, I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":943.88,"endTime":946.76,"body":"remember saying this a couple,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":943.88,"endTime":946.76,"body":"maybe a couple of years ago at a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":946.76,"endTime":951.47,"body":"conference, remember when"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":946.76,"endTime":951.47,"body":"national curriculum changed in"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":951.47,"endTime":956.81,"body":"schools, and coding came onto"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":951.47,"endTime":956.81,"body":"the national curriculum. Think"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":956.81,"endTime":960.11,"body":"of all those years of school"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":956.81,"endTime":960.11,"body":"children who are coming through"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":960.14,"endTime":964.01,"body":"with those digital skills with"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":960.14,"endTime":964.01,"body":"those coding skills, they are"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":964.01,"endTime":967.76,"body":"available, in principle, to"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":964.01,"endTime":967.76,"body":"construction in the same way"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":967.76,"endTime":973.13,"body":"that they are available to other"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":967.76,"endTime":973.13,"body":"industries, when these young"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":973.13,"endTime":978.92,"body":"people come through to study and"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":973.13,"endTime":978.92,"body":"graduate. My question is, where"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":978.92,"endTime":983.06,"body":"do they put the indicator on and"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":978.92,"endTime":983.06,"body":"turn off on a different route."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":983.66,"endTime":986.48,"body":"And that's what we have to make"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":983.66,"endTime":986.48,"body":"sure that we actually are"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":986.48,"endTime":990.02,"body":"capturing people with the new"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":986.48,"endTime":990.02,"body":"skills that we need. So there's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":990.02,"endTime":993.29,"body":"always my you know, there's a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":990.02,"endTime":993.29,"body":"few of us in the academic world"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":993.29,"endTime":998.42,"body":"who have a great deal of respect"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":993.29,"endTime":998.42,"body":"for the leaders in industry who"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":998.42,"endTime":1001.27,"body":"are very committed to bringing"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":998.42,"endTime":1001.27,"body":"apprentices and young people in."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1001.66,"endTime":1004.96,"body":"But don't forget the graduates."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1001.66,"endTime":1004.96,"body":"Don't forget the Masters"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1004.96,"endTime":1007.78,"body":"students, because actually,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1004.96,"endTime":1007.78,"body":"they've got the higher level"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1007.78,"endTime":1012.22,"body":"skills to land directly into"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1007.78,"endTime":1012.22,"body":"management levels of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1012.22,"endTime":1017.29,"body":"organisations and make really"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1012.22,"endTime":1017.29,"body":"significant shifts in how things"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1017.29,"endTime":1021.82,"body":"are done. I remember very"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1017.29,"endTime":1021.82,"body":"clearly, a placement student"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1021.82,"endTime":1025.63,"body":"coming back from a placement"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1021.82,"endTime":1025.63,"body":"from a construction management"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1025.63,"endTime":1030.01,"body":"degree program and saying, the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1025.63,"endTime":1030.01,"body":"people I was working with on"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1030.01,"endTime":1034.54,"body":"site, the senior managers were"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1030.01,"endTime":1034.54,"body":"crying when I left, because none"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1034.54,"endTime":1040.45,"body":"of them could drive Revit. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1034.54,"endTime":1040.45,"body":"none of them could use it. And"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1041.05,"endTime":1045.79,"body":"it's a simple example. But I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1041.05,"endTime":1045.79,"body":"think it's effective. Let's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1045.82,"endTime":1050.32,"body":"really privilege these digital"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1045.82,"endTime":1050.32,"body":"ompetencies, because this isn't"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1050.32,"endTime":1052.75,"body":"ptional. Come on, we need it."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1055.51,"endTime":1058.24,"body":"turned up with their digital"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1055.51,"endTime":1058.24,"body":"skills. Not everyone knows what"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1058.24,"endTime":1061.06,"body":"to do with them. It needs the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1058.24,"endTime":1061.06,"body":"right organisation with the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1061.06,"endTime":1063.31,"body":"right kind of fit to actually be"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1061.06,"endTime":1063.31,"body":"able to leverage those skills."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1063.31,"endTime":1064.96,"body":"And I think that's one of the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1063.31,"endTime":1064.96,"body":"things we're not getting the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1064.96,"endTime":1067.21,"body":"industry ready for them. So"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1064.96,"endTime":1067.21,"body":"they're going to arrive and"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1068.95,"body":"there won't be anything for them"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1067.21,"endTime":1068.95,"body":"to do. And again, it's a bit"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1068.95,"endTime":1071.38,"body":"dull, go off and do something"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1068.95,"endTime":1071.38,"body":"else. I think that's my concern"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1071.38,"endTime":1075.19,"body":"is the kind of the spark gap"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1071.38,"endTime":1075.19,"body":"between Yeah, clearing a path"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1075.19,"endTime":1077.2,"body":"and making sure that we can"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1075.19,"endTime":1077.2,"body":"actually leverage them and let"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1077.2,"endTime":1078.91,"body":"them loose on it. So things"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1077.2,"endTime":1078.91,"body":"that, you know, you've seen some"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1078.91,"endTime":1080.44,"body":"of the apps that we've been"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1078.91,"endTime":1080.44,"body":"doing that were deliberately"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1080.44,"endTime":1085.12,"body":"aimed at lowering again,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1080.44,"endTime":1085.12,"body":"barriers to entry. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1085.12,"endTime":1088.54,"body":"that's quite an interesting take"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1085.12,"endTime":1088.54,"body":"on where the industry is."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1088.88,"endTime":1092.09,"body":"The other point about that, of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1088.88,"endTime":1092.09,"body":"course, is something that I've"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1092.09,"endTime":1096.38,"body":"really noticed since arriving at"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1092.09,"endTime":1096.38,"body":"UCL, the number of data"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1096.38,"endTime":1100.55,"body":"scientists that we have working"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1096.38,"endTime":1100.55,"body":"on studies of construction, the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1100.55,"endTime":1104.0,"body":"built environment, you know, we"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1100.55,"endTime":1104.0,"body":"have one particular part of our"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1104.0,"endTime":1107.69,"body":"faculty, which is almost"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1104.0,"endTime":1107.69,"body":"entirely data scientists looking"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1107.69,"endTime":1111.77,"body":"at the built environment. So"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1107.69,"endTime":1111.77,"body":"actually, you know, I think"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1112.55,"endTime":1116.15,"body":"there's work for everybody to do"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1112.55,"endTime":1116.15,"body":"on this. But we know the people"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1116.15,"endTime":1119.39,"body":"are there. You're right, we've"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1116.15,"endTime":1119.39,"body":"got to make a digital home in"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1119.39,"endTime":1119.99,"body":"construction."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1122.9,"body":"Yeah, it must"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1120.44,"endTime":1122.9,"body":"be one of the sector's I've got"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1122.93,"endTime":1125.12,"body":"no evidence for this. But it"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1122.93,"endTime":1125.12,"body":"feels like it must be one of the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1125.12,"endTime":1127.46,"body":"sector's which has got the most"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1125.12,"endTime":1127.46,"body":"amount of data, which is"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1127.46,"endTime":1130.82,"body":"completely untapped. And just"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1127.46,"endTime":1130.82,"body":"sort of lying about it, no one's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1130.82,"endTime":1134.12,"body":"doing anything with it. Again,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1130.82,"endTime":1134.12,"body":"we must have huge amounts of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1134.12,"endTime":1136.91,"body":"data that can be put to use. And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1134.12,"endTime":1136.91,"body":"we haven't got a hope of getting"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1136.91,"endTime":1139.34,"body":"into digital twins and smart"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1136.91,"endTime":1139.34,"body":"assets and all the rest we go,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1139.34,"endTime":1141.17,"body":"we're not doing a particularly"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1139.34,"endTime":1141.17,"body":"good job of the data we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1141.17,"endTime":1145.52,"body":"currently got. So yeah, again,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1141.17,"endTime":1145.52,"body":"that's one of the huge gaps."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1145.64,"endTime":1149.36,"body":"Which brings me it's probably"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1145.64,"endTime":1149.36,"body":"just time the last question"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1149.36,"endTime":1155.15,"body":"maybe. So moving forward,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1149.36,"endTime":1155.15,"body":"assuming we got another round of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1155.15,"endTime":1159.23,"body":"funding, what are all the things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1155.15,"endTime":1159.23,"body":"that you didn't get to do in TCN"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1159.23,"endTime":1161.24,"body":"that you'd like to do? Or where"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1159.23,"endTime":1161.24,"body":"are the gaps that you'd like to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1161.24,"endTime":1163.79,"body":"cover? If you had a wish list?"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1161.24,"endTime":1163.79,"body":"What are all the topics that you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1163.79,"endTime":1166.19,"body":"think needs a further"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1163.79,"endTime":1166.19,"body":"explanation? So obviously, data"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1166.19,"endTime":1168.26,"body":"science and you know, we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1166.19,"endTime":1168.26,"body":"talked about one of them? What"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1168.26,"endTime":1170.24,"body":"do you think are the pockets"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1168.26,"endTime":1170.24,"body":"that either you didn't get"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1170.24,"endTime":1172.64,"body":"around to this time, or you've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1170.24,"endTime":1172.64,"body":"learned about the thinking or"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1172.67,"endTime":1175.07,"body":"that needs a project that needs"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1172.67,"endTime":1175.07,"body":"looking at? What are the kind of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1176.06,"endTime":1178.94,"body":"things you'd like to explore"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1176.06,"endTime":1178.94,"body":"moving forward, assuming we get"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1178.97,"endTime":1179.9,"body":"we get a chance?"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1180.86,"endTime":1183.53,"body":"Yeah, I think it's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1180.86,"endTime":1183.53,"body":"a very interesting question. And"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1184.73,"endTime":1187.73,"body":"where we are now is actually"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1184.73,"endTime":1187.73,"body":"quite different to where we were"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1187.73,"endTime":1192.29,"body":"two, three years ago, to be"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1187.73,"endTime":1192.29,"body":"honest. My view is that there's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1192.29,"endTime":1196.34,"body":"a couple of things I would be on"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1192.29,"endTime":1196.34,"body":"the data science side, and a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1196.34,"endTime":1199.55,"body":"couple of things I would really"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1196.34,"endTime":1199.55,"body":"bring forward. I think, in our"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1199.55,"endTime":1205.07,"body":"team, we We very much really"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1199.55,"endTime":1205.07,"body":"started to understand the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1205.22,"endTime":1212.54,"body":"business model innovation that"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1205.22,"endTime":1212.54,"body":"is possible. What we don't yet"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1212.54,"endTime":1218.12,"body":"understand is how to, you know,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1212.54,"endTime":1218.12,"body":"take that forward, I think we"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1218.45,"endTime":1223.61,"body":"like to move to a point where"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1218.45,"endTime":1223.61,"body":"we've got to maybe some, we call"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1223.61,"endTime":1226.64,"body":"it action research, it kind of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1223.61,"endTime":1226.64,"body":"means doing on the ground and"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1226.64,"endTime":1231.41,"body":"studying it whilst you're doing"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1226.64,"endTime":1231.41,"body":"it. But the idea actually, that"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1231.41,"endTime":1238.97,"body":"we could start to test within"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1231.41,"endTime":1238.97,"body":"live construction projects, or"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1238.97,"endTime":1245.09,"body":"firms, test out some different"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1238.97,"endTime":1245.09,"body":"business models. Now that I"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1245.09,"endTime":1247.58,"body":"mean, I can imagine some people"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1245.09,"endTime":1247.58,"body":"just sweating at the thought of"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1247.58,"endTime":1251.51,"body":"that. It's pretty risky stuff."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1247.58,"endTime":1251.51,"body":"But if we could find some"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1251.51,"endTime":1254.78,"body":"businesses where we could go in"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1251.51,"endTime":1254.78,"body":"and do that, I think that would"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1254.78,"endTime":1258.83,"body":"be a magnificent opportunity."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1254.78,"endTime":1258.83,"body":"I'd really relish that, you"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1258.83,"endTime":1262.55,"body":"know, in Platforms, this is"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1258.83,"endTime":1262.55,"body":"active niches, I think, isn't"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1266.27,"body":"it, where you've actually got a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1262.55,"endTime":1266.27,"body":"little segment of a company set"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1266.27,"endTime":1270.8,"body":"aside to take, you know, to"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1266.27,"endTime":1270.8,"body":"really undertake some risky sort"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1270.8,"endTime":1275.6,"body":"of work. I think that would be a"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1270.8,"endTime":1275.6,"body":"marvelous opportunity. To be"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1275.6,"endTime":1279.26,"body":"honest, though, like, in the"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1275.6,"endTime":1279.26,"body":"bigger context, we really,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1279.29,"endTime":1284.36,"body":"really need to accelerate our"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1279.29,"endTime":1284.36,"body":"action around netzero carbon and"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1284.36,"endTime":1288.38,"body":"climate change. We're not moving"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1284.36,"endTime":1288.38,"body":"fast enough on that as a sector"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1288.38,"endTime":1291.11,"body":"at all. So I would absolutely"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1288.38,"endTime":1291.11,"body":"bring that forward."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1291.45,"endTime":1293.4,"body":"The business"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1291.45,"endTime":1293.4,"body":"model ones? Yeah, that's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1293.4,"endTime":1296.37,"body":"fascinating is where it needs to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1293.4,"endTime":1296.37,"body":"happen. I mean, yeah, well,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1296.4,"endTime":1298.83,"body":"we've talked before on this"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1296.4,"endTime":1298.83,"body":"podcast that the things that are"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1298.83,"endTime":1300.87,"body":"holding us back actually aren't"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1298.83,"endTime":1300.87,"body":"really the technical bits. Now a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1300.87,"endTime":1304.68,"body":"lot of it is the cultural and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1300.87,"endTime":1304.68,"body":"the Yeah, insurances,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1304.68,"endTime":1308.19,"body":"warranties, and things, it would"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1304.68,"endTime":1308.19,"body":"need, I suspect, or one way you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1308.19,"endTime":1312.66,"body":"could do it, if you'd want a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1308.19,"endTime":1312.66,"body":"client that was able to absolve"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1312.69,"endTime":1315.21,"body":"a kind of little special purpose"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1312.69,"endTime":1315.21,"body":"vehicle or something or some of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1315.21,"endTime":1318.03,"body":"the normal risk. I think you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1315.21,"endTime":1318.03,"body":"couldn't do it as a business"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1318.06,"endTime":1320.7,"body":"model on its own, you'd also"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1318.06,"endTime":1320.7,"body":"need the right project and the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1320.7,"endTime":1323.82,"body":"right client to sponsor it. And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1320.7,"endTime":1323.82,"body":"maybe one of the things we did"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1323.85,"endTime":1327.48,"body":"early in the day for Heathrow,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1323.85,"endTime":1327.48,"body":"the pier segregation things, we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1327.48,"endTime":1329.61,"body":"used to describe it as being a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1327.48,"endTime":1329.61,"body":"sort of bubble where someone to"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1329.61,"endTime":1332.91,"body":"take away all the friction and"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1329.61,"endTime":1332.91,"body":"all the kind of normal"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1332.91,"endTime":1335.64,"body":"constraints and said, right,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1332.91,"endTime":1335.64,"body":"just get on make this happen."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1336.42,"endTime":1339.36,"body":"COVID like, you know, the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1336.42,"endTime":1339.36,"body":"world's version of that where"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1339.36,"endTime":1341.28,"body":"everyone said, right, we're"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1339.36,"endTime":1341.28,"body":"going to be super digital in two"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1341.28,"endTime":1344.22,"body":"months go in because you just"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1341.28,"endTime":1344.22,"body":"have toto, yeah, it needs"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1344.22,"endTime":1346.35,"body":"something like that doesn't get"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1344.22,"endTime":1346.35,"body":"someone to actually change the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1346.35,"endTime":1348.57,"body":"game or take and take the brakes"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1346.35,"endTime":1348.57,"body":"off to allow these things out"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1348.57,"endTime":1352.23,"body":"for you. So yeah, that's one"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1348.57,"endTime":1352.23,"body":"way. Yeah, I'd love to keep"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1352.26,"endTime":1354.24,"body":"talking about that in due"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1352.26,"endTime":1354.24,"body":"course, because I think that's"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1354.24,"endTime":1356.88,"body":"where it's going to happen. And"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1354.24,"endTime":1356.88,"body":"as you say, I think we live in a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1356.88,"endTime":1359.22,"body":"world where we've talked about"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1356.88,"endTime":1359.22,"body":"this before that every other"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1359.22,"endTime":1362.58,"body":"sectors had some disruptive"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1359.22,"endTime":1362.58,"body":"business model that's tipped"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1362.61,"endTime":1365.22,"body":"things on their head"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1362.61,"endTime":1365.22,"body":"construction, so risk averse."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1365.22,"endTime":1367.59,"body":"And again, because of the long"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1365.22,"endTime":1367.59,"body":"term implications, if you get a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1367.59,"endTime":1369.99,"body":"digital thing slightly wrong,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1367.59,"endTime":1369.99,"body":"it's got a transients, that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1369.99,"endTime":1372.75,"body":"doesn't matter. Whereas if you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1369.99,"endTime":1372.75,"body":"build a building wrong or a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1372.75,"endTime":1374.67,"body":"school wrong, then that's got"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1372.75,"endTime":1374.67,"body":"some, you know, some"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1374.67,"endTime":1378.33,"body":"implications. So yeah, that's a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1374.67,"endTime":1378.33,"body":"Yeah, a topic for another day"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1378.33,"endTime":1382.23,"body":"maybe to talk about. Very last"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1378.33,"endTime":1382.23,"body":"question. We ask everyone this,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1382.23,"endTime":1385.41,"body":"and it's obviously impossible"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1382.23,"endTime":1385.41,"body":"question. But where do you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1385.41,"endTime":1387.69,"body":"think, given what you what you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1385.41,"endTime":1387.69,"body":"know, about, you've just"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1387.69,"endTime":1389.4,"body":"mentioned, the fact that we've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1387.69,"endTime":1389.4,"body":"changed a lot in the last couple"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1389.4,"endTime":1393.06,"body":"of years, you know, 5-10 years,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1389.4,"endTime":1393.06,"body":"if everything went well, you"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1393.06,"endTime":1394.5,"body":"know, if you've got some"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1393.06,"endTime":1394.5,"body":"thoughts about where the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1394.5,"endTime":1398.64,"body":"industry could get to, if all of"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1394.5,"endTime":1398.64,"body":"these things converge right in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1398.64,"endTime":1400.71,"body":"the right way, or where we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1398.64,"endTime":1400.71,"body":"should be aiming to get to in"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1400.71,"endTime":1403.17,"body":"the next decade, as you say, I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1400.71,"endTime":1403.17,"body":"think the net carbon ones"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1403.26,"endTime":1406.2,"body":"massive. If we haven't solved"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1403.26,"endTime":1406.2,"body":"this significantly in 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1406.2,"endTime":1410.16,"body":"then we really are facing some"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1406.2,"endTime":1410.16,"body":"enormous problems. So any sort"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1410.16,"endTime":1411.0,"body":"of thoughts around that?"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1411.5,"endTime":1413.9,"body":"So you're"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1411.5,"endTime":1413.9,"body":"absolutely right, the the net"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1413.9,"endTime":1417.5,"body":"zero carbon is the mandatory"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1413.9,"endTime":1417.5,"body":"thing, we have to do that. That"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1417.5,"endTime":1420.74,"body":"is absolutely business critical."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1417.5,"endTime":1420.74,"body":"But you know, in in five to"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1420.74,"endTime":1423.41,"body":"maybe 10, let's say 10 years,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1420.74,"endTime":1423.41,"body":"it's a bit more generous. But"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1423.41,"endTime":1426.77,"body":"I'd like to look at an industry"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1423.41,"endTime":1426.77,"body":"and particularly the major"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1426.77,"endTime":1430.4,"body":"contractors, and I'd like to"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1426.77,"endTime":1430.4,"body":"look at them and not see any,"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1431.33,"endTime":1437.66,"body":"that were still based on Return"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1431.33,"endTime":1437.66,"body":"on Capital Employed. This is not"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1437.72,"endTime":1442.13,"body":"sustainable. I cannot believe we"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1437.72,"endTime":1442.13,"body":"still have so many major"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1442.13,"endTime":1445.82,"body":"contractors in business, where"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1442.13,"endTime":1445.82,"body":"they are still operating on this"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1445.82,"endTime":1449.81,"body":"model. This I mean, this is"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1445.82,"endTime":1449.81,"body":"incredible, quite honestly. And"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1449.81,"endTime":1455.21,"body":"surely 10 years time, things on"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1449.81,"endTime":1455.21,"body":"that will have changed. If that"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1455.21,"endTime":1458.18,"body":"s changed, then they've got m"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1455.21,"endTime":1458.18,"body":"re than they're being judged"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1458.18,"endTime":1461.18,"body":"on Return on Investment. They"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1458.18,"endTime":1461.18,"body":"re investing in their business"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1461.21,"endTime":1465.05,"body":"s, they're doing more R\u0026D, t"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1461.21,"endTime":1465.05,"body":"ey understand, you know, where t"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1465.05,"endTime":1467.69,"body":"ey need to change, they"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1465.05,"endTime":1467.69,"body":"re creating the net z"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1467.69,"endTime":1470.12,"body":"ro businesses, they've proba"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1467.69,"endTime":1470.12,"body":"ly disrupted their busine"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1470.21,"endTime":1475.16,"body":"s, they've probably changed. So"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1470.21,"endTime":1475.16,"body":"or me, the change will be seen"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1475.16,"endTime":1477.23,"body":"in the contractors."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1476.54,"endTime":1478.347,"body":"Yes, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1476.54,"endTime":1478.347,"body":"that's brilliant. Because I've"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1478.391,"endTime":1481.213,"body":"heard that talked about an awful"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1478.391,"endTime":1481.213,"body":"lot. Everyone sort of says or a"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1481.257,"endTime":1483.814,"body":"number of people have said,"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1481.257,"endTime":1483.814,"body":"yeah, it's gonna happen in the"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1483.858,"endTime":1486.503,"body":"Tier 1s contractors. That's that"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1483.858,"endTime":1486.503,"body":"that's the one that when we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1486.548,"endTime":1489.325,"body":"talked to Josh Johnson McKinsey"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1486.548,"endTime":1489.325,"body":"last time, he said that's where"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1489.369,"endTime":1491.618,"body":"the change, the biggest"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1489.369,"endTime":1491.618,"body":"opportunity for change will"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1491.662,"endTime":1494.395,"body":"happen. But no one's articulated"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1491.662,"endTime":1494.395,"body":"exactly what that looks like."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1494.439,"endTime":1496.908,"body":"That's probably the best"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1494.439,"endTime":1496.908,"body":"articulation I've heard of what"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1496.952,"endTime":1499.421,"body":"they should be heading towards."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1496.952,"endTime":1499.421,"body":"That's incredibly useful"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1499.465,"endTime":1500.48,"body":"actually, so brilliant."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1500.48,"endTime":1502.86,"body":"We'll have to leave it there"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1500.48,"endTime":1502.86,"body":"unfortunately, loads more we"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1502.902,"endTime":1505.492,"body":"could have talked about and I"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1502.902,"endTime":1505.492,"body":"look forward to catching up with"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1505.533,"endTime":1507.998,"body":"you in real life once things"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1505.533,"endTime":1507.998,"body":"settle down. So thanks ever so"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1508.039,"endTime":1510.17,"body":"much for coming on and offering"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1508.039,"endTime":1510.17,"body":"your your insights."},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1511.1,"endTime":1513.41,"body":"My absolute"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1511.1,"endTime":1513.41,"body":"pleasure, Jaimie, I look forwar"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1513.41,"endTime":1516.47,"body":"to revisiting our conversatio"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1513.41,"endTime":1516.47,"body":"on business model disruption"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1516.5,"endTime":1518.6,"body":"I'm sure that, let's"},{"speaker":"Jacqui Glass","startTime":1516.5,"endTime":1518.6,"body":"e disruptiv"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1519.53,"endTime":1521.96,"body":"Absolutely."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1519.53,"endTime":1521.96,"body":"Thank you. Thanks for listening."},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1521.99,"endTime":1524.96,"body":"And please join us next month on"},{"speaker":"Jaimie Johnston","startTime":1521.99,"endTime":1524.96,"body":"Built Environment Matters."},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1526.34,"endTime":1528.89,"body":"Thank you for listening"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1526.34,"endTime":1528.89,"body":"to Built Environment Matters"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1529.13,"endTime":1532.13,"body":"podcast brought to you by"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1529.13,"endTime":1532.13,"body":"Bryden Wood. Listen and s"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1532.13,"endTime":1534.92,"body":"bscribe wherever you get your f"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1532.13,"endTime":1534.92,"body":"vorite podcast. And you can f"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1534.92,"endTime":1537.05,"body":"llow Bryden Wood on LinkedIn a"},{"speaker":"Credits","startTime":1534.92,"endTime":1537.05,"body":"d Twitter."}]}