From NASA to AI: A Tech Pioneer Wants to Glorify God

Nick Skytland spent 25 years working for NASA—and sharing his faith in Jesus Christ along the way.

Then he sensed God calling him to a controversial new frontier: artificial intelligence, or, simply, “AI.” Listen as Nick shares his story, including a rocky childhood, a soaring career, and championing the intersection of faith and technology. 

Connect with us through email at gps@billygraham.org or on Facebook at Billy Graham Radio.

If you’d like to know more about beginning a relationship with Jesus Christ, or deepening the faith you already have, visit FindPeacewithGod.net. 

If you’d like to pray with someone, call our Billy Graham 24/7 Prayer Line at 855-255-7729. 

Transcript

Nick Skytland: 
[00:00:00] I think that there’s so much to be said about the work that’s done in our space program, engineering, and Science. Um, that actually just kind of leads us to a better understanding of who God is and what He’s doing in this creation, what He’s done with this creation.  

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:00:14] Nick Skytland spent 25 years working for NASA and sharing his faith in Christ with his colleagues. Last year, Nick sensed God calling him to a different mission field that’s taking him to a controversial new frontier. And it’s not in outer space. We’ll hear Nick’s story on this episode of GPS: God. People. Stories. It’s an outreach of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. I’m Jim Kirkland. In 1969, just a week before mankind took the first steps on the moon, Billy Graham spoke about the role of technology in our lives, and whether or not it serves as a replacement for God. His message may be nearly 60 years old, but as we return to the moon today, it still rings true. 

Billy Graham: 
[00:01:00] I’ve received hundreds of letters from people who ask questions such as do you think these excursions into space are God’s will? Is there a danger of science displacing God? And many other similar questions. 

Jim Kirkland:
[00:01:14] Billy Graham addressed those questions, and we will hear the answers a little later on in the episode. If you’d like to know more about God right now, about who He is and what His Son, Jesus Christ, did for you, visit our website. FindPeacewithGod.net. When you’re there, click on begin a relationship with Jesus. That’s FindPeacewithGod.net, and the fastest way to get there is in the link in our show notes.  

Audio tag:
[00:01:42]

Nick Skytland: 
[00:01:48] I grew up in the great tundra of North Dakota, only 20 miles from the Canadian border, essentially. Kind of in the part of the country that even like the early settlers were like I don’t know if I want to live there. 

Jim Kirkland:
[00:02:00] Only about 100 hearty souls live in Nick Skytland’s snowy hometown, where his grandparents raised him. North Dakota is known for nighttime skies, however, that are free of artificial light. And that provides magnificent views of the galaxy. This panoramic view helped stoke the fires of young Nick’s dreams about exploring space. 

Nick Skytland:  
[00:02:26] I actually got started in my career at NASA when I was in kindergarten in North Dakota because – it’ll age me but – that’s when my teacher rolled in this old TV on the cart. All of us were sitting around, and we were watching a space shuttle launch. I remember it because it was very formative for me. It was the first teacher launching into space on the Challenger. Um, and if you recall and remember, that ended, um, in a disaster and is really tragic. Again, it-it stuck with me. Um, it actually catapulted my interest of like, hey, I actually want to be part of working on the frontiers of technology, of science, of human exploration. And that theme stuck with me all the way through high school and into college.  

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:03:15] Nick’s family stuck with him, too. He credits his grandparents for taking him to church and giving him an early introduction to Jesus Christ.   

Nick Skytland: 
[00:03:24] I remember my grandmother on her knees next to my bedside, praying the Lord’s prayer over me and teaching me that from the earliest memories that I have. I remember her diligence and her faithfulness. And that, you know, how she modeled what faith was. Um, she talked to me about who God was and who Jesus was and why that mattered for my-my own life. 

Jim Kirkland:   
[00:03:49] Nick had been living with his grandparents because his mom and dad struggled with substance abuse. When his dad got clean, Nick left his grandparents’ home to live with his father. He left stability behind as well, though. He and his dad would often bounce around from one temporary home to the next. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:04:06] I lived in campgrounds, and halfway homes, and didn’t really have a lot of stability from the-from the home perspective until almost about the time that I graduated from high school. And so, for me, the church and my faith was something I could place my trust in and-and have my hope in. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:04:27] Nick went to college to study engineering in order to chase those NASA dreams that began in kindergarten.  

Nick Skytland:  
[00:04:34] I actually went to Valparaiso University, an incredible university in the Midwest. And those four years were surrounded by a salt community, as in the number of Bible studies. I had good friends who asked me challenging questions. And then after that, after I graduated with an Engineering degree, I went to work at NASA in Houston. And then shortly thereafter, I joined a non-denominational church, which is where I’m at still today. And I was actually baptized as an adult there and reaffirmed my faith as an adult just to really be clear about the meaning of my faith and my relationship with Christ in my life. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:05:11] The 25 years that followed were exciting ones for Nick as he worked his way up at NASA. He helped train astronauts for space walks and conducted research around physiology. 

Nick Skytland:  
[00:05:24] So, if you run a 5k on the moon and you’re in a space suit, could your musculoskeletal system withstand that? Would you get fatigued? If your body passes out, do you have enough energy and strength to bring them back to the lunar lander? You know, very practical things that then feed into spacesuit design and lunar architectures. 

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:05:46] Nick also had the opportunity to share his love of space exploration with people outside the United States.    

Nick Skytland: 
[00:05:52] So, how do we open up the story of exploration to people from around the world? We called it Participatory Exploration. And we launched a number of challenges and opportunities for citizens from wherever they were to co-design, co-engineer, and co-build with NASA engineers and scientists. And created some amazing things there. 

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:06:12] Nick’s colleagues at NASA knew he was a Christian. And it was not unusual at all for Nick to field questions from skeptics or people who were just curious about his faith in Jesus Christ. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:06:24] I got a message from a colleague of mine who reached out and said, hey, tell me more about this Christianity thing. Tell me more about this religion thing because I’ve seen you throughout your career, kind of model that at work. And at this point, you know, I’m not a Christian, but I’m very interested to know what that looks like because I’ve kind of seen you live out your faith at work. And I’m curious. And it reminds me, you know, at NASA, there are really, really smart and brilliant people that I got to work with all day long. Um, and many of them were not Christians. And so, it is-is an amazing missional opportunity for me just to be myself in this world of really smart people, but also to be a Christian and to be completely okay with that. And be bold and courageous enough to share my faith in a way that mattered to other people. That they would reach out to me and say, hey, I’m interested in learning more. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:07:17] That curious colleague Nick just mentioned did become a follower of Jesus Christ. And the fact that many astronauts, engineers, and rocket scientists are Christian doesn’t surprise Nick a bit. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:07:31] I think that there’s so much to be said about the work that’s done in our space program, engineering, and Science. Um, that actually just kind of leads us to a better understanding of who God is and what He’s doing in this creation, what He’s done with this creation.  

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:07:45] About a year ago, Nick began to sense God calling him to use his gifts and his pension for boldness in a different way. Nick had been the Chief Technologist at Johnson Space Center, a role that blended technology, partnerships, and innovation. At the same time, Nick also had his own consulting business helping Christian ministries navigate changing technology. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:08:07] And it was incredible to be able to walk along what I would say is a pretty under-resourced, from a technology and strategy standpoint. Under-resourced industry, if you will. Organizations who don’t have a Chief Technologist on staff but could amazingly benefit by using technology to share the gospel and to serve those that they are serving in their ministries. So, I was just really open to the idea of like, hey, God. You know, I’ve had a good career at NASA, but if you’re calling me into something greater, I’m open to it. Maybe this is halftime. Maybe for the second half of my career, you can use me in ways that I can’t predict. Like it’s your will, not my will.  

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:08:50] We should mention here that while Nick was rocketing up the ladder at NASA, he also got married and had three kids who were growing up fast. Nick was already thinking about what God might have in store for his family’s future when he attended a marriage retreat with his wife and some friends from another church. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:09:09] And they were talking about their experience as missionaries and like the amazing adventures that God had called them to. And I was reminded of the values that my wife and I had written down a couple of years ago when we were on another marriage retreat. And that was around having, um, courageous convictions of being irrationally generous, of having stories to tell, and having lasting friendships. So, when I looked at the decision to stay or to go serve God’s kingdom in a bigger way, I was like, man, I want to have stories to tell. I want to live out my courageous convictions. I want to have lasting friendships that have forged through these-through these adventures. I want to be irrationally generous with my time, talent, and treasure. And so, what does that look like? And so, that opened me up to the possibility of leaving NASA. 

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:09:55] Given Nick’s lifelong interest in cutting-edge technology, it’s not surprising that an organization called Gloo, that’s G-L-O-O, caught his attention. Gloo is a technology platform aimed at connecting people of faith. One of the company’s focuses is something we hear a lot of today. Artificial intelligence or AI. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:10:20] I feel very convicted about AI and this AI moment. So, I looked around and said, hey, who’s doing stuff for the church? Who’s serving the church well when it comes to AI? Who’s on the frontiers of technology? And that was Gloo. So, I was like, hey, maybe I’ll go work for Gloo. So, I called them up and said, hey, would you guys have any sort of role for a person like me? They were like we’d love to have you on the team. And so then, I-I joined them about a year ago. It’s been amazing since then. 

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:10:47] AI is one of the most controversial technologies ever. And that’s saying quite a bit. Even among Christians, there is a wide range of opinions on the ethics of using it. Nick believes the church needs to be involved in AI developments, not sitting on the sidelines. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:11:04] We have a responsibility to shape technology so that we can be a voice in this generation. I mean, if you think about it, AI is increasingly mediating our human experience. I mean, humans are becoming more like machines at the same time that we are striving for machines to become more like humans. And there will be a point where you talk a lot about the singularity, and this point where it becomes the same in many ways. I think it’s about the perception of when you can no longer tell a machine from a human. When that happens, whether we, the church, think that’s right or wrong or have a judgment on it or thought on it, society is going to normalize this experience with machines long before we’re comfortable with it as a church. I mean, every time a new technology comes out, humans have always been fearful and fascinated at the same time about the technology. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:11:58] Our fear and fascination with AI is understandable. What was once just a good plot for a science fiction novel is reality, thanks to AI’s rapid rise. And while some see the technology as intrinsically problematic, Nick puts forth a different view. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:12:19] Technology itself, I would attest, is not good or bad. It’s like a hammer. You could use it to break a window or build a house. So, if we look at it from that perspective, it’s the heart behind the hammer, of like if we’re going to break it or build it with the hammer. So, I think that we have to first have a good theological understanding of technology. It’s not bad. It’s not evil. But humans in a fallen world, um, might use technology for evil purposes and in really bad ways. And I think we’re seeing quite a bit of evidence of what that looks like right now. You know. I mean, we have examples of humans that are using chatbots as therapists, as an example, or using AI for erotica and serving up like sexually explicit content and then remixing that content without consent. Without any regard to the human who didn’t mean or intend for their image to be used in that way. And then, of course, like we can easily fall in love. The temptation is to fall in love with our AI. I mean, it’s kind of the stated goal of many technology companies is I want you to have a relationship with AI. And that’s concerning, right? 

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:13:36] It is concerning indeed. And as Christians think through the best way to respond, Nick and his new colleagues are working on ways to use tech for good, particularly for communicating the Gospel of Jesus Christ.  

Nick Skytland: 
[00:13:51] One of the things I love to do is to convene in person, preferably, technologists to build together. And we call them hackathons. You can call them whatever you want. But it’s like 48 hours. You have a common challenge. And you build something for the kingdom. We do the hackathon every year, that’s focused on AI. And this past year, we actually had 97 projects from 700 participants. 

Jim Kirkland:  
[00:14:18] One of those projects involved the creation of a new Bible app. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:14:23] And what’s really funny about this is we would tell people, hey, when you come to a hackathon around faith and technology, just don’t do two things. Don’t make a Bible app, and don’t make a prayer app. Like everybody’s done that. Like, there’s not a lot to innovate. And I stand corrected because the app that was produced was incredible. It was immersive. It was well designed. And honestly, now, I find myself wanting it while I’m in church on Sunday. Because essentially, it’s very simple. It’s like imagine if you could open your Bible and you see a verse. You just click on that verse, and it would unfurl more context around it. And then, you could engage with that chatbot, essentially, that’s helping you understand that verse more. It’s incredible. Now, it’s a little controversial, too. Do we want technology that does that? Does that take away something that maybe should be human-driven? Should we be using technology to help us have insights like that? Is it forming us in ways that the Holy Spirit only should form us? There’s a lot of questions around it. But I do think it’s a really interesting idea. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:15:22] Even though Nick spends much of his time exploring new frontiers in the tech world, he knows how crucial it is to keep real-life, face-to-face relationships front and center. There’s a good chance you’re using a phone or tablet right now to listen to this podcast. And we are thankful for that. But most of us need help putting down our devices. 

Nick Skytland: 
[00:15:46] A significant thing I think that God has been just really stirring in my heart is the need to be present in an age where it’s kind of characterized by distraction. It’s so easy to pick up your device and to be on it. Um, I am, thankfully, a husband to an amazing wife. And I have three amazing kids, two boys and a girl. And one’s in junior high; one’s in high school. One is in elementary school. And I’m just very, very aware of how little time you have with those people around you. One of our values is just lasting friendships. Even with the friends around us, the people around us, being intentional is so important. You know, sometimes that looks like putting down your phone. Choosing not to be on in a meeting and to have a kind of like this really present conversation or experience with those that you love in your life. 

Music tag:
[00:16:38]

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:16:53] We’ve been learning from Nick Skytland, former Chief Technologist at NASA’s Johnson Space Center. And now, a tech pioneer who wants to serve the church as they reach others for Jesus Christ. Here at the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association, we believe God is using technology to reach people all over the world with the good news of Jesus Christ. Millions of people have used the resources that you can find at FindPeacewithGod.net. And maybe that website would be helpful to you if you have questions about who Christ is and why choosing to follow Him will be the most important decision you’ll ever make. If you want to learn more about all of this, go to FindPeacewithGod.net. And click on begin a relationship with Jesus. If you know Christ as your Savior but just feel the yearning to get closer to God, then click on grow in your Christian faith. Both options are at FindPeacewithGod.net. You can also find this link in our show notes. We couldn’t end our chat with Nick Skytland without mentioning a very important piece of news. It’s the latest mission to the moon. NASA launched Artemis II today to explore parts of the moon that no human has ever visited before. We’ll hear more from Nick about this next step in space exploration in just a moment. 

Audio tag:
[00:18:13]

Billy Graham: 
[00:18:24] I’ve received hundreds of letters from people who ask questions such as do you think these excursions into space are God’s will? Is there a danger of science displacing God? And many other similar questions. 

Announcer:
[00:18:37] Billy Graham … 

Billy Graham: 
[00:18:38] It was not so long ago that the x-ray, the airplane, and television were only dreams. And no one took the idea of space travel seriously, even 15 years ago. This next week, all of mankind will stand in awe at these great scientific achievements. However,  in all this excitement, we should not forget the more important fact that man’s hardcore problems on earth still exist. The problems of sin, suffering, and death are still with us. As we watch the blast off next Wednesday morning, we should not forget that we still wrestle with our age-old problems of sin, disease, and death. To these three basic problems that face mankind, only Jesus Christ can meet and solve them. In Hebrews 13:8, it says Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Jesus Christ died on the cross to forgive sin. He can transform the human heart. Even today in this scientific and technological age, you can put your faith and confidence in Christ, have your sins forgiven, have your burdens lifted, and have hope for the future. You can find fulfillment right here and now on this little planet. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:19:58] If you’ve never trusted Jesus Christ with your life, and you’d like to know more about who He is, we’d love to help. The Easter season is a special time of year to learn. And a good place to start learning is at FindPeacewithGod.net. That’s FindPeacewithGod.net. There’s also a link to the page in our show notes. Nick Skytland has been talking with us about new frontiers in the tech world. He’s been passionate about space exploration since kindergarten. So, you can imagine how excited he feels about today’s Artemis II launch. And as a Christian, he sees a deeper meaning in our ongoing exploration of space. 

Nick Skytland:  
[00:20:40] Anybody who’s ever seen a rocket launch, it really is an incredible experience. If you haven’t seen a rocket launch, I highly recommend it. There is just something about feeling the sound in your chest as you watch this rocket ignite and all this fire and smoke, and watch it lift into the atmosphere. It gets even more personal when your friends start launching on these rockets. Um, so I’ve had that happen many, many times. I have friends on the upcoming Artemis mission, um, which will take, you know, humans farther than they’ve ever been around the moon, which is pretty incredible. I think that returning to the moon is just another example of humans participating in creation. Like we have a missional mandate to steward this creation well. Exploration is a big part of that. And I think that we’re going to explore the moon, and Mars, and continue out through the galaxy over time. And it’s all just part of that beautiful mandate that we have. 

Jim Kirkland: 
[00:21:35] We want to thank Nick for being with us on this episode. If you have friends or family who are interested in technology or space, why don’t you text the link to this episode to them? And for yourself, simply make sure you’re subscribed to GPS on your favorite podcast app or on YouTube. In the middle of life, GPS is here in the middle of the week every other Wednesday. From all of us at GPS, Happy Easter! He is risen. We hope you join with us as we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus Christ, who offers forgiveness from sin and new life to all who believe. I’m Jim Kirkland. And this is GPS: God. People. Stories. It’s an outreach of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association. Always good news. 

Music tag:
[00:22:24] 

End of transcript