238: Let Them Carry the Fries.

In this lighthearted and wide-ranging episode, Kevin and Nole share lessons from fatherhood, fitness, and finance. The guys reflect on the fast-approaching reality of retirement and the importance of taking small, consistent actions to prepare for the future. They discuss the parental tightrope walk of balancing saving money with making memories, and the daily challenge of trusting your kids with more responsibility (even if it means risking a tray of fries). Nole shares a humbling story about becoming "the old guy" at the station doing a workout, and the crucial mindset shift required to keep showing up. The conversation also touches on personal integrity, the surprising power of a "bro hug," and navigating the tricky phase of a middle-schooler discovering makeup.

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Transcript

Nole (00:14.04)
You are listening to the fire you carry podcast today. have a lighthearted episode filled with a few different topics. We talk about some fatherhood stuff. So for your dad's out there, there's some interesting concepts for you to think through. also talk about starting to become the quote unquote old guy when it comes to working out with other men and how to process that, how to deal with that. And we also get into a little bit of talk on identity, how you see.

yourself and how that motivates you and really if that's even appropriate and that comes from a place of what I perceive to be a failure in my own life considering what motivated me recently in an interaction I had at work and what I believe should have been so nice lighthearted episode a couple fun things to think through in there we appreciate you listening enjoy

you

Kevin (01:21.848)
Back to the Fire, You Carry Podcast. No, we just had class 13 of the Fire Up program. man, I needed that. I needed that. It's not a secret. I've been in a funk. We've been talking about this. And I felt like that just around stellar human beings. And it's humbling that guys were flying in from Arkansas and Florida and all over the place. man.

I know the guys had a powerful experience, but so did I. I just thank you. for putting it on, bro.

Thank you for putting it on. It was a team effort, man. It was so fun. It was a really good class. We keep saying every class that it was the best class yet, and that just continues to be true. And I think there's a lot that goes into that, but it's just been, man, it's been a wild ride. It's fun to leave something like that that does take so much work to put on, right? And so many guys involved to get it actually functioning. Like, it's not just you, it's not just me. There's a lot of hands.

a lot of behind the scenes, but to leave that experience and to immediately be already looking forward to our next class in November, and that just speaks volumes. I've never felt like, man, it's the program again. And it's a ton of work, right? But I'm always excited about it and I can't wait. I can't wait for the next one.

Yeah, I don't know what is this. Something's moving up there because you know what we thought it might've been. It's a great weekend with the boys and help you love each other up. It like every guy comes out with some new experience. You know what mean? And it's like there's some profound awakenings. There was laughter. There was tears. There was just everything under the sun. And more than anything, there's this camaraderie. What I love about it is that we break out into these little groups after some of our talks and our events. And the guys that are in my group were like,

Kevin (03:13.336)
We're like talking daily, you know what mean? And it's the coolest thing in the world because I didn't know these guys, two of them were from far across the country, right? And we're talking daily, which is really cool and encouraging each other to level up in the areas that we identified.

Yeah, that's super fun. had a almost an hour long phone conversation with Dan. And I mean, if you know me at all, you know that I don't do hour long phone calls, but it was awesome. It was great to just catch up with him and talk to him about his experience since he left and, know, just kind of. I don't know what the term is bro down with him. So, yeah, which is cool. And again, that's another awesome aspect of the program is that.

Go

Nole (03:57.336)
Boston Dan is from Florida and I never would have met that guy, know, but now we're friends and talking on the phone for an hour and just cool. Very cool.

Yeah. I mean, just, it's hard to describe, right? It's, but man, if you're, if you're on the fence, I would encourage you to, to look this thing up and see if it fits in your schedule and make it a, make it a thing. Because there's, mean, there's another guy, Brian Miller came out from Arkansas and, man, what an amazing dude. What an amazing dude. And there's things that I took away from him and he took away from us. And, but it's just, it's cool to know that there are other people like

on a path down the road, working a similar job, trying to grind, trying to stay in shape. And he's another world away, right? It feels like, but we're identically in the same shoes trying to push each other. It is a very cool thing. So hats off to the guys that did come up. And I thank them because I think I get more out of it than they do.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, Brian's another one of those who've been talking on the Discord and going back and forth with workouts and talking about doing our morning breathing and stuff like that and seeing pictures of the background of his station when he's sitting out there in the evenings with his crew. And it looks like every other fire station I've ever seen, but it's in Arkansas. Yeah. Which I don't even know if I could find on a map, but I think it's part of America. that's cool. good.

Definitely part of America. Baxter out there. You know what came up, which was an interesting thing is that this was close to I just celebrated my 46th birthday, which seems are just old, ancient. But what was interesting to think about is I feel like we're just we're grinding. We're doing our things. Kids are growing up. We're working. We're doing our things. But I haven't really like put my head up. But it was like.

Kevin (05:46.446)
KT or somebody was saying, oh, you only have like 10 or 11 years left. And I was like, whoa. Because I'm old, right? And so I'm like, hey, 55 to 57 is like our retirement age.

you mean till retirement. Yes.

10 to get 10 or 11 to go.

I heard that as like the end and I was like, wait a minute, that math's not math and that doesn't...

But I mean, like, that's it. Right. And so but I don't I couldn't care less about like, I'm like, I will miss the clowns and not the circus. I think I've heard retirees say that. And I love the guys. But I I definitely look forward to the next chapter. But I would as a single income family, I was like, are we prepared? Are we prepared? You know, I mean, like, do I have have I stacked enough? Am I doing the right things financially?

Kevin (06:38.062)
to be like, 10 years from now, we get one paycheck a month and then we're good. And I don't today. I don't think that would be my answer would be yes, you know? So I almost had to like go back and like, hey, we're having conversations with the wife right now and saying, hey, we're we're doing we've been pretty good about putting money in our little buckets for retirement and a little bit for the kids college and little things. But I think we're to have to make some changes to like make sure that we're actually good. Hmm. Ten years from now.

My brother, Edward, the Bruce, has been talking to me endlessly about similar things. He's really good with money and he's currently really into the bitcoins, the stuff like that. He does lot of investing in other things, but he's really smart about it he works really hard at making sure he is ready. And I've never been...

that guy. I've never been really good at that. I've kind of just always lived paycheck to paycheck. And my wife and I were just recently having a conversation about, we weren't talking about retirement, but we were talking about really trying to dial it in and actually live off of a budget and have more of a plan and do more savings and all those things that you know are important to do. But I've just never been a habit for me. And at times in my life, I've been the opposite habit where I've just been

squandering, whatever I did have. But it is interesting because, yeah, you start getting closer to quote unquote the end of this job, right? Of this paycheck that comes in every other week. And yeah, what does that look like? And I've been putting it off like every time I'm around the table at work and the guys start talking about retirement stuff. I listen politely for a few minutes and I get up and leave because I'm like, you know, that's not me. That's so far down the road.

but it may not be actually that far down the road. And we know how fast time goes.

Kevin (08:35.531)
Well, funny. It kind of came to like the all encompassing idea of like doing little things over times, habitually like forming habits so that in the end you've gotten you've achieved a goal. Right. And it it's almost in everything like, if I want to eat well, feel better, lose weight, I have to take small incremental actions on my diet. Right. If I want to run a marathon.

I'm not going to start out with 26 miles. I'm going to start out with two, you know, and then start slowly building up. And it's the same thing like financially, right? I'm like looking at it I'm like, I almost have to take stock, which I don't in like all these little areas of my life and say, am I taking like the right, the necessary steps daily, little actions daily in all my little things to know that I'm getting to the end goal where I want to be in everything. So it's like we, you know, I committed to like reading the Bible daily and it's been cool. And there's some

You know, days that's more challenging than the other, we're doing that Bible in a year program. So, but I like the fact that it's in, if I look at the Bible, there's hundreds and hundreds of pages. It looks overwhelming. And where do you start? But I'm like, you gotta have a plan. And I love, you know, our friend Chris Juan always says, pro's have a plan. And I started thinking about like almost not to be so regimented and everything, but that little, have to kind of have a plan for all these things.

that I want to do or what I want to accomplish to make sure that I'm on the right track. I'm on the path and something that's measurable, right?

Totally. Yeah. And it's amazing that that principle, really, it really.

Nole (10:16.376)
transcends whatever issue you're talking about. I, you like you talk about the fitness realm and I know a little bit about my own body and how it works. And yet I'm still frustrated because I gained at least 10 pounds after I stopped using Zen and have not really tried to get it off until probably about the last two weeks, but I'm immediately frustrated that I'm not seeing just like immediate results that I'm like right back to where I was prior.

It's not, it doesn't work that way. And I know that I know that it takes discipline day after day after day to work, you know, back into that. But I want that just immediate gratification of, I healthy for one day and worked out really good. know, why, why am I not back to where I was before? And it just doesn't work that way. But knowing that, and then looking at it from a perspective of, okay, I know this and I just have to day by day, keep that discipline and keep moving it forward. And then that will start to, to, to work.

But when you expect to do it in, you know, one day after eating healthy and crushing one workout, you're to be disappointed.

Yeah. No, it's, it's an interesting balance. And I don't know where the balance is because I'm conflicted is we have done like when we wanted to, we got financially murdered in eight or no nine, right. And lost everything and owed thousands of dollars to people like the IRS. But, you know, we, we scrimped and tightened up the budget, but we didn't have kids at the time. And so it was easy for us to live off beans and rice and to watch every dollar that we spent. And now that we have kids,

they're in 11 and 12 years old in middle school and I'm trying to figure out how to like make memories, continue to have experiences with them knowing that my time with them is short. have six summers left with my daughter and I'm like, so I want to make experiences. want to capture that time while they're at home, but at the same time I want to make sure that we're going to be taken care of.

Kevin (12:16.76)
you know, into retirement, my wife's gonna be okay, the kids are gonna be okay. And so I have to almost rethink a little bit. Maybe it doesn't have to be a grandiose trip to Hawaii, but maybe we can find other ways to connect and do like mini adventures throughout the year instead of like giant trips, which costs thousands of dollars.

Yeah, yeah finding that balance that is tough that is tough We know it can be done because we've seen people around us do it and in the context of that both you and I have had experiences where we did things with the family that were not the grandiose vacation to Disney World for two weeks, but you created tons of awesome memories and had a great time and Those are things that the kids will carry on forward as great memories, but it didn't have to cost you, you know $10,000 to do

It's just finding those things and then and then being at peace about the fact that it isn't the grandiose huge thing that I feel like sometimes depending on the circles you move in, we kind of feel like you have to do those things. got to do everybody else talks about it. Right. That's what we do. We being Americans. That's how we conduct ourselves and we're all in debt.

We're doing, right?

Right. South America.

Kevin (13:30.914)
Dude, I was inspired recently by our friend Josh Nessa, the great Josh Nessa, one of the most impressive human beings that has been in my realm for sure.

One of the most intimidating men I've been around.

JP Hill speck is a fireman medic on at our station who randomly signed up for a high rocks in the pro division because that's all I had and I think you got 13th. So you can tell the caliber of these two dudes are on another level. Wow. But there's a former army ranger that created this adventure race up in the hills of this Sierra mountains or something like that. I don't know the name of it. We're going to have to ask Josh about it, but it's a three day event.

where you have to land nav and at different points you do workouts and then you have to go across time and they ended up doing 57 miles in three days.

So it's a selection is what it is.

Kevin (14:31.438)
It's not to me when it sounded like rip or selection. It's like I Mean, it's built by one of you and by this Ranger and he said they had a You know, they there was I think 20 Do they did this they spent Tons of money to get up there and go do this. Yeah, they won almost every event But they missed one waypoint and were disqualified from the event They finished even though they were they knew they missed one waypoint.

Yeah.

Nole (14:43.8)
So they went and did this.

Kevin (15:00.608)
And they would have won the whole thing except for one, one, one point that they missed blows my, it blows my mind that the dude had recently had surgery on his abdomen for a hernia. And like three weeks later, they're running 57 miles in the middle of the night, looking for waypoints and doing workouts.

Dude.

Nole (15:21.15)
Man, there's so much to love about that. The first thing I love about it is how savage it is that you could miss one waypoint and you're disqualified. Yes, dude. Like we need more of that kind of thing in the world of men. Whereas, yeah, you did a great job, but you know, you didn't win. Like, sorry, I know. Come back next time. That's heartbreaking. But it's also the type of thing that makes that so appealing. And it's incredibly impressive that they did that well, because.

I mean, I'm going out on a limb here because I don't know either of those guys well enough, but I'm pretty sure that that's not something they normally train for. No. That type of event. Anybody that's training for something like that.

And listening to Josh, I mean, a lot of it was just sheer willpower and his experience being a recon Marine. Yeah. No, like, hey, I'm going to dig into dark places. And we've done this from where I was rocking. had to wear packs. think the packs were 40, 50 pounds. You know, they had to pack in all their gear, keep a gallon of water. mean, it's this whole thing that you have to do. And I just think the time on your feet. Think of that like a time on your feet.

their feet were trashed, know, they're getting no sleep, no food.

Yeah, and you got to be mentally sharp if you're doing land now. You got to be aware and paying attention and know what you're doing. You can't just, it's not just the grind, right? Cause you got to go find that next point. Man. I don't want to know anymore about that. Don't bring that up again. Don't tell me who it was. Cause I'm going to try to do it and I'm going to try to drag you into it.

Kevin (16:36.76)
So.

Kevin (16:43.694)
So the thing, so he said that there were some older guys that they all like lived up there and they've done this like seven years in a row. They do like in their fifties. So thinking about this, you know, we got 10 years to retirement. I don't know anything about land now, but you do.

How have we not heard of this?

Nole (16:58.528)
I used to, I've forgotten it all, but we could relearn it.

Yeah. And Josh was trying to tell us about a step count and all this different stuff and. Base count, right? And so I just haven't, I mean, I'm just throwing it out there and putting it out there, dude. Like we're in our 50s somewhere and maybe not that race. Maybe, maybe it is that race. I feel like we grab a pack. We try to figure this out.

Pace counter.

Nole (17:20.557)
I say we go do it and we then we come back and we build our own version of it for the fire up program down here in SoCal.

Let's go in the mountains of Crestline.

Yeah, how do you get insurance for something like that? Yeah, we're gonna take these guys and we're gonna give them a compass and send them out into the woods and yeah, they might come back. I think that may not be a idea, but I love it already. It sounds brutal. We should definitely try it.

I'd like to hear more about it, but the description of this thing was completely savage. I think the first day they put in 22 miles and they were like, hey, teams were trying to pace it and walk and that's not what Josh does. ran it. They ran it. It's pretty impressive to be able to wheel yourself through that.

Let go.

Nole (18:07.886)
That sounds like an altitude. Yeah, that sounds a lot like selection for getting into Delta. They conduct it very similarly to that. It's very heavy land nav and just moving over rough terrain with a rock. They do other stuff too, but that's like, that is the great equalizer is how much ground can you cover wearing weight and still find your points and, just not quit. Cause if you stop moving, you're not going to make the time.

Yeah, the land-nam thing is interesting because they're in the dark in a forest. There's no points of reference, right? So he was talking about in the desert, you could find places that you could see and you can triangulate yourself. You can't do that, you know? And then you're looking for an ammo box can. Right. And if you're off one degree over a...

In the middle of the forest, yeah. You're not going to find it. You'll never find it. You'll never find it. never find it. It's really interesting. land nav a lot. it's, I mean, it's a great skill, but it was interesting even back then because nobody was doing map and compass land nav in, you know, in the real world overseas. No one was doing that. We had GPS and everything else.

find it.

Nole (19:17.794)
but it was still a skill that was like, have to know this because you can't count on technology all the time, right? It may not, it may fail you and then you have to have something to fall back on. So we practiced it all the time and yeah, night land nav in the jungles of Georgia was exactly like that. And if you make the tiniest miscalculation or go around the wrong side of the tree too many times, you're not going to hit the point at the end. And yeah, then you get disqualified. that's wild.

And, you know, hearing how like they had to cross rivers and they have to go through things and hearing how he would like purposely, Josh, which purposely get wet. So then he can wash the dirt and dust off his socks. So then he can dry them on the back of his pack the next day. So he'd have fresh socks and he's rotating socks. Like it's fascinating that that's a dude that has grinded in some misery overseas to figure out things like that.

That's hardcore. love that. Strong work, boys.

I'm switching gears here. I gotta ask your advice on something. I have a seventh grade or in a public seventh grader. Yeah. The makeup thing is becoming a thing and and you I mean you have an older daughter and when is makeup like allowed or

Cool.

Nole (20:33.726)
it. I have no idea. I can't help you.

I'm sorry. I was looking for direction here, bro Because you know, I had the lip gloss, of course, and all right, that's like all right. I'm like chapstick I use chapstick, right? That's fine But then recently I saw like it's like mascara right like asking my wife is that appropriate? She's like, well, yeah, I think that's a little bit There's no problem, but I'm like, you know, it's gonna keep going and I don't know about this makeup thing and I try to encourage her and tell her

Ike, dude, Ike, I...

Kevin (21:05.026)
how beautiful she is and for rent her and say that and she is and like to find that beauty within but it is part of the culture and the female thing is like to wear makeup. Her friends wear makeup.

Yeah, if I had my wife here, she would tell me exactly when Avery started wearing makeup and how that worked and her thought process behind it. And it would be great, but I don't have that information in my brain. what I, what I will say though, is that you're in a tough spot because there is an aspect of that where I know that just you as a dad, like you want to protect her innocence and keep and allow her to enjoy childhood right before she really becomes a woman as long as possible. Right. And

But then the flip side of that is going to a public school, you know, that's what she's going to be around is all the other girls who are doing that. And so then if you don't like how much, how detrimental will that be to her experience? Will she be mistreated, ostracized, you know? And so then you've got, you got kind of both sides of that coin, which is difficult, right? You just, cause you don't want to put her through the other side of that where, you know, you put your foot down and say, no, we're not doing this at all, but all of her friends are. then she feels like she's not.

maybe less than or something. And that's hard, especially when, you know, from your perspective, I know that you can see it and say, Hey, even if I did, which I know you're not going to do this, but even if I did put my foot down and say zero makeup until you're whatever arbitrary number 16 or something, you know, that that would be good for her character and that she would persevere through that and it would be good. then from her perspective, she can't grasp all those lessons or your heart behind it. Even if you tell her,

you know, she's not going to be able to really fully understand it until much later. And so is that an experience that you're willing to put her through or that's even worth going through? dude, I wish I knew the answer. mean, that's tough.

Kevin (22:54.03)
That's how I'm kind of looking for it. I'm like giving it a pass and picking my battles because she gets good grades. She's a good human. She's volunteering in a special needs class with kids. know, I'm like, she's doing great, you know? That's awesome. But I'm like, I want to pick those battles. And she's going to the youth group at church, that's even terrifying because it's from seventh to 12th grade. And the difference between a seventh grader and a 12th grader when we'd go and drop her off at church at the youth group thing.

do that's rad.

Kevin (23:22.978)
You're like, no, these are, these are full grown humans. Right. Right. And she's right. it's, of course they're in full makeup and just different clothing and whatever. I'm like, this is terrifying. It's a weird transition that middle school.

Yeah. And I feel like that's a more modern thing too. mean, I'm sure I don't know anything apart from my own experience, which wasn't public school, but that kind of stuff in our society has obviously accelerated quite a bit, especially with the advent of social media and everything. All that is happening at a much earlier age than it used to, but that's always been a struggle. you know, depending on where you're at in the country, it happens.

differently, but there's always those social pressures, those peer pressures. And yeah, I think the tough thing, and this is Noel as a man speaking into something he has no experience in or no business speaking into, but I think especially for, for women, there is the, that just that standard, right? That they get pushed on them by TV, movies, media, whatever. And then the people they're surrounded by. And it's such a.

It's such an arbitrary standard. You you talk about your wife or whatever and you see her the morning without her makeup and you think she's beautiful, right? We all do. And we can, we can tell them that, but the world is telling them the exact opposite, right? That they can't, they can't present themselves to the world like that because it's not, it's not unattractive or, know, whatever it is. And that's, that's tough. That's tough to fight against.

It is. There's that. don't know if you've seen the Pamela Anderson just doesn't wear makeup anymore. And she's maybe in her fifties or something like that. And it doesn't like you think of Pamela Anderson Baywatch, like the dudes all love this lady when she when we were growing up. She doesn't look like that. She looks like an old lady. She doesn't wear makeup. And it's like a social statement that she's trying to make. She doesn't wear makeup anymore. And that's not her identity, which is.

Kevin (25:28.364)
Hey power off my hats off to but she does look awkward. It does look weird. It doesn't look like you know what mean? Like the image that we'd have of who that lady was, yeah.

Hmm. Here's a thought. This is from left field and this probably doesn't work, but it's funny. My wife is on the path of removing all kinds of different toxins and stuff from our lifestyle. And one of the things she does, she uses the Yucca app. We've talked about it before on the podcast. So she scans everything. So there's a lot of beauty products that she no longer uses because they're actually really toxic. So you could go down that road. You could start just like seeing what she's using and scan it with the app and they go, no, this is actually really

bad for you. And so, know, this one, but then you're approaching it from like a health standpoint instead of a social like, we're not doing that.

I thought it was just food, does products and things.

Yeah, I think it was actually developed originally for soaps and cosmetics and stuff. That's actually where it does the best interest and it's actually dude I'm sorry don't do it because it's really frustrating you go down that road and you start scanning things that you use on a regular basis and it's all bad and then it's sometimes difficult to find products that are quote-unquote clean and then you're kind of pigeon

Kevin (26:38.584)
What's their... because if I scan meat, is it going to say that's bad because it has high cholesterol and fat or something?

Yes, so you have to read into it and you have to know your own standards and what you believe is healthy. if you scan, if you scan ground beef, that's 80 20. So it's got a higher fat percentage. It's going to tell you it's bad for you. Cause the fat content is too high. But if you're somebody like us who's eating healthy, you're like, well, I need that extra fat. I actually want that. I know it's not bad for me. You gotta, you gotta be able to parse that out. But when you're scanning something like cosmetics, it'll, it'll tell you. And for us as men, if you're standing at deodorant.

it will highlight some of the ingredients that are in there and it'll tell you why they're bad. And then you get stuck, you get pigeonholed in, well, I can only buy deodorant from this one company because they're the only one that makes it without this, know, phenylene, phenol, whatever dirty chemical that's in everything, aluminum, whatever it is, you know? So I warn you, if you go down that road, it's going to make you change your life in ways you might not want to.

Yeah, dude, I've tried. I've tried to do the healthy non-aluminum deodorant before and then I smell like an Afghani by two in the afternoon. I can't do it, dude.

I got one that you can try because, because my wife is very caring about our health as a family and so she takes care of, tracks this stuff. Years ago, my deodorant was like the first thing she targeted. I don't use a lot of products, obviously, we're men. I like two products, toothpaste and deodorant and a hair gel, three, three products. Anyway.

Nole (28:15.458)
So when she did that, I had one that I've been using forever and I think it was old. I was using old spice or something. You know, I was like, this stuff works great. It's awesome, but it was bad. It was poisonous. And so then I started down the road of looking. And so I found a company called Bravo Sierra. Actually, I found him through when we went out and we're hanging out with Tim Kennedy. He was doing something with them, but anyway, Bravo Sierra, they make deodorants that are clean and they smell really good and they work. So.

nice.

Nole (28:42.83)
something to look into. I have to order it online because you can't find it in any store. There was a brief period of time where Target sold it, which is getting way too into the weeds, but they don't sell anymore. So you got to order it online, but it actually does work. Just depends on how serious you are about, do you want to pay more, wait for it to ship, like that whole thing. You can't just go to Walmart.

No, you know, that's interesting. Years ago, I read this article about not like the grocery store wars and how these corporations have to spend millions of dollars for the shelf space where it's at and like located. So like the Mars company, for instance, when you check it out, they specifically put candy at children's eye level and they millions of dollars for that to be there. Or if like you go into the cereal aisle post pays millions of dollars to make sure that they're, you know,

Cinnamon crunch toast or whatever is in the in the center of the middle of the aisle. That's like of course Bravo is not gonna be able to pay Whatever to have that in the you know what I mean?

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. All right. So I got this for you. All right. We've talked about this multiple times on the podcast, but I had a moment the other day where we were at in and out, getting some food as a family. We didn't know quite frequently when we're down in town. It's the best. And I apologize to all you who live elsewhere and you don't have access. I'm sorry, but

Here we go.

Nole (30:14.304)
Eventually it'll make it out there. Anyway, so we're going to pick up the food at the counter and there's two trays because there's quite a few of us. So the one tray has all the French fries in it and the other tree has all the burgers in it. And I've got the receipt. I go inside and Indy is, he comes with me, right? Cause he's my guy. goes with me everywhere. So he wants to help. He's in a very helpful phase of his life. He wants to help, wants to do everything. He's kind of becoming the man of the house cause North has moved out. So he's just like my go-to guy. Like you got to help me with this now. You're the man of the house. So I'm trying to give him all these responsibilities and let him do things and learn.

but he wants to help me carry the food back to the table. sitting outside, so it's a little bit of work to get out there. Yeah, right? So he goes and he grabs the tray of fries and he didn't even say anything, but I know he's there to help and he's excited about it, because he's gonna help dad carry the food. Dad's first thought is, run into the door.

the track.

Kevin (31:02.017)
Yeah.

This kid is to run for and he's going to drop all the fries. That's exactly what's going to happen.

And so I literally reach out like I'm gonna take both trays and tell him it's okay, buddy. I'm gonna take it. And then I see his little face and I'm just, I'm like, I can't do that. And I had a moment of clarity where I thought it through and I thought, okay, what's the worst case scenario, which is a lesson my dad taught me. And I think real quick, this happens in seconds, but I'm like, what's the worst case, what's the worst thing that could happen here? He drops the tray of fries. Exactly, right? Exactly.

Thanks

Kevin (31:33.599)
And we get new ones.

So who really cares? We delay the fry eating by five, 10 minutes. No problem at all, no big deal. The flip side of that is if I take the tray of fries and I'm like, I'll carry it. If I keep doing that, then A, he knows that I don't trust him to carry the fries. I haven't given him that honor of saying, yes, you may carry the family's fries, which is a big deal, right? The fries are the best part of the meal. I love fries. He knows how much I love fries. I order two fries. Want to go to In-N-Out?

Yeah, why not?

Well, because you get fat. anyway, so I let him carry the fries. Nothing happens. He makes it back to the table. But for some reason, that moment was it stuck in my head is like, how often throughout my day am I telling him no and doing things because I'm worried about the consequence without really thinking through like, what is the consequence? Does it really matter? I'm not going to give him the, you know, the circular saw and let him cut the two by four yet. But we are talking about

As soon as I get my wood splitter back from my friend, he's going to start splitting wood with me on the wood splitter because North is gone and can no longer do it. Now I'm not going to put him directly in contact with the blade and move in the logs. He's going to run the handle and I'm going to work on the end that's dangerous, but he's going to see that process and learn and work up to eventually splitting wood all by himself. I had North do that all the time for years where we just send him out. And of course I had to train him and teach him, but

Nole (33:00.706)
you give them that responsibility. And in that case, there is a worst case scenario, right? There is a reason why I don't just say go split wood to 10 year old Indy, but I, start walking through the process. So that, was a moment for me where I really just had to kind of pause and go.

It's really solid though. That's really solid because I catch myself. This is a weird, this is a weird thing. But when it comes to like their physical stuff, if they can go to a parkour gym, I'm like, absolutely go crazy. They can climb a tree. saying if you feel like you're capable, jump out, you know, if there's a half pipe, I'm saying I encourage you to drop in.

Yeah.

But then if they're making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich, it drives me crazy and I'll do it because I know they're going to put the peanut butter into the jelly and contaminate the jelly.

And it's gonna I won't let him do it or yeah

Kevin (33:47.182)
I'm going to carry the fries. You know what mean? I won't. I know that they're going to spill all the fries or all the shakes or all the whatever, and I don't let them do it. And it's so weird because I'm like very controlling in that part because I'm like, maybe it's because I'm hungry and I'm irritated or whatever. But when it comes to the physical stuff, I totally encourage them. I'm like, get crazy, go lose. But it's like the little things that I think I can do better that because what's the worst case, right?

What's the worst thing that can happen and eventually we're gonna? It's still edible. It's just like we don't do that and eventually we're both gonna be in the place where and I've already done this but you we're gonna I'm gonna be back in the place and you're gonna get to the place where you're letting them take the family car and go drive right you the the things get increasingly, you know more consequential but eventually you have to work them up to that point where I have trusted you with things and I do

Kelly. Yeah.

Nole (34:39.214)
trust you. And I do know that there's danger and there's risk here, but this is a necessary point of life. I mean, it's silly to say, but as a man, eventually he's going to be the guy who is bringing the food back to the table for his family when his kids are too little to help. he's going to, you know, so it's silly to say that he needs to learn how to carry the fries out of in and out, but in some sense, he kind of does. Not so much that he needs to learn how to carry a tray of fries, but that he needs to learn that he has autonomy and he has enough responsibility

in Canada.

Nole (35:08.856)
to do stuff like that. It's a very small, small lesson, obviously it's pointing at much bigger things. So that had a big impact on me this last couple of

That's huge. I've been giving them, like tasks. They don't like it, but I'll have them order and I'll give them 20 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. He got to do that. You know what I mean? And have them go up and order and like say please and thank you and those kinds of things. And it's awkward. They don't want to do it, but I feel like that's good. They have to learn how to like engage with people and talk and you know what mean?

That lesson kind of disappoints me personally, because I remember when I was young and I don't know, probably between 10 and 13 or something, every once in a while, my family would be at McDonald's, we almost never ate out. And I would always be like wanting more food because I was a growing boy. And so I would express that I was hungry and my dad would do exactly that. He would give me a $5 bill and say, go order another cheeseburger or whatever. And I was so shy and so afraid I wouldn't I would not do it.

I'm good. I'm not gonna eat you

My dad, to his credit, he never forced me to do it, but he also never went and bought me the hamburger. He was like, if you want it, you have to go get it. And so eventually I did, right? And now I'm a functioning adult and I order my own food. But the part of this that disappoints me is that with Indy, he's so bold in that area. He just is ready. He's figured it out too, cause he'll go, dad, can I have a milkshake? I'll buy it. I'll order it myself. Like he knows the drill. So I give him the cash and he goes and does it. And then he comes back and he eats his milkshake.

Kevin (36:12.046)
Yeah, it's up to you.

Kevin (36:23.436)
He just jumps up, yeah.

Nole (36:35.72)
So he's figured it out. He's got no problem with that at all. He's just, he's just the co he's in command.

That's it. That's the youngest child though. That's the youngest child thing for sure.

He's got a fin for himself.

Yeah, that's that's cool. I think those little they're little rites of passage, right? Like you're giving them little tasks and you know, and I think that's that's a big deal. I think that's a big deal. The more we can make them more autonomous and more independent, the better. And it's almost like a button. know, who does this say our buddy Jason Teeter says you can if they do it with you, it's going to take four times longer than anything else. Yeah. Are you willing to spend the time to actually teach them how to do the thing? You know, right.

All All right. I was super convicted about this as well. This happened recently too. And this is a podcaster versus follower of Christ lesson, but it's applicable to anybody and I'll bring it back around. But I was having an interaction with somebody at work and

Nole (37:43.692)
I just, I was just annoyed in this interaction and I kind of wanted to just be the gruff and tough salty fireman and essentially be rude to this person, to this guy. And in the moment that I was wanting to do that and wanting to demonstrate what I've seen done a lot of times, right? Just the kind of the salty tough guy fireman attitude. And I just wanted to do that because this person was driving me crazy in that moment though.

The thing that I thought of was the podcast. I thought, I thought I have this, I have this persona is like, I'm Noel of Kevin and Noel and the fire you carry podcast. And so if I present myself to this guy this way, but then I come on the podcast and I say different things and act a different way than I'm being hypocritical. And so I can't do that. And so I treated this guy differently in a more appropriate way. And then in the process of going through that, I started feeling immediately even more guilty.

not because of my initial response, but because then I thought, hold on, are you serious right now, Noel? Like that's the reason that you're gonna treat this guy the proper way because of the podcast. Like you're a follower of Christ. You're to be a good man, a man of integrity. Like that, but that's the thing that's gonna, I think it's good, right? Cause I didn't bite this guy's head off, but it was interesting to me that because this is kind of, this is a public facing thing and you and I get on here and we say these things and we present like,

who we are, who we're trying to be. Like that was the thing. And I thought, man, I really need to switch that. And obviously that's fine. It's a, it's a motivation that made me do the right thing in the moment, but I should be more focused on people around me in this department know that I believe in the God of the Bible and that I'm trying to be a Christian man. That should be my motivation is to, is to demonstrate what, what a Christ follower is like, not about a podcaster is like, how ridiculous is that?

And I think the way that that would translate out into, you know, the rest of life would just be, it doesn't matter where you're at. You're always going to have these pressures, right? Back to the social pressures that your daughter's experiencing at school. There's always going to be these pressures to make you do or be or act a certain way that maybe don't line up with your values. And if you're a believer and you've got this code of conduct, right, that you're trying to live by because you're trying to follow Christ, your motivation shouldn't ever be

Nole (40:05.07)
what other people's perception is of you, regardless of it's because if it's because you're a pastor or a podcaster or whatever, like the motivation should come from something else. And for me, the challenge was that if it didn't, how serious am I taking that of the thing? Am I taking the pod? Right. Yeah. Am I know the podcaster or am I know the follower of Christ? Right. What, what is more important to my identity? So that was really interesting to me. And this guy has no idea.

actual character or is it?

Nole (40:34.562)
that I was struggling internally with that and you know, I've failed in that many other times and gone the opposite way and just been a dick.

Yeah, I like getting deeper though and looking at what is the root cause of my initial reaction is being You know what mean? Like what is that and like why am I hungry my angry or my lonely am I tired? Hmm. Am I am I what is going on with me that that's my initial reaction and then you know We've talked about this but it's like if I cannot vocalize my first thought I'm usually pretty successful

Why am I annoyed? Yeah.

Kevin (41:10.338)
Majority with it is with my wife because she'll be like I think we should do this and I'm like that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard Don't if you if you don't but I also think that my first initial reaction is like my innate reaction to things is not always the best no matter what right and I have to like look at that and if I could take a tactical pause and See people as they are. It's just another dude like me on a bus trying to figure it out like

Come.

Kevin (41:37.184)
then my reaction, if I can just delay that reaction and give somebody an open mind, think I'm way better for it. But I have to, sometimes I have to look down at like, if I continually get irritated at one thing, well, why am I so irritated? You know?

Yeah, and all too often for me it's because that's a reflection of me. I do the same thing this person is doing. I act the same way. see it reflected in them and I'm like, this guy's an idiot. And then I realized, my God, I'm this guy. I do that. That's why it bothers me because it's annoying and I should probably stop.

Dude, one of the things that I've been doing and a lot of guys in the battalion do, which I actually really like, it's a perceived tough guy battalion that I'm in, but it's really not like on almost every medical call we go on or every station drill or battalion drill we go on. It's bro hugs all the way around. And like, even if there's a brand new guy or he's an overtime or whatever, like everyone's just, Hey,

You know, you got to give the handshake. got to have the arm in, protect, and then you get the two back slaps. It's a bro hug. That's right. But there's something that changes immediately on scene. after, you know, we take care of the patient, you wrap it up, you're either heading to the hospital or you're heading back to the station. But everyone kind of just like, hey, what's up, bro? What's up, bro? What's up? And just goes around and gives a bro hug. And I dig it, man, because it's like you can't be mad at the guy that just took the inaccurate blood pressure or did nothing on the EPCR.

When you just gave a bro hug, you know what mean? It is what it is. And like my thought is like, these guys could have done this, could have done that. But then everyone starts giving bro hugs and like whatever who cares.

Nole (43:10.631)
Right. I love that. I had a really funny moment with that actually this week. There was a crew of guys that came through the station and it was a couple of guys that I had not met before because they're brand new and they're former camp guys so they kind of been in the world for a while but they're brand new to the department. They're still on probation.

And one of the other guys is a good buddy. So I did the bro hug thing exactly. You described, right? You get the handshake, the arm comes in. So that's the buffer between the two chests and then you give the two paths and you're good. Right. That's, so I do that with him. And then I turned to the other, the kid, he's not a kid, but the probationary guy and I stick on my hand and he grabs my hand and then I just pull him in like, bro, hug it out. Come here. I'm like, we're doing this.

And then the third guy, knew what was coming. You could tell he was really uncomfortable. He wasn't ready. He was not in, but you know, he's not going to say no to me because he's on probation. He's actually afraid, but you know what mean? He's uncomfortable with it for whatever reason, but I give him the bro hug and then we're all kind of laughing about it because it was kind of awkward. And my captain had walked out at that point. So he sees me like hugging all these guys and he's like, what's going on? I'm like, we're doing hugs. And so then it's, it is a really cool aspect of the brotherhood, right? That's a little bit of that brotherhood tradition that

Give me a Trump check.

Nole (44:24.35)
It seems so inconsequential that like that kind of physical contact could mean so much, but it does. It does. And if you look in the real world for men, and I say the real world, meaning like outside of the fire service, you don't see a lot of that except for a certain churches. but it's really cool. It's really good. And so if you're in the civilian world, man, take Kevin's lesson. The bro hug is key. Start giving your buddy's bro hugs. It might be awkward, but so what? It's good.

But that's the thing when you were brand new in your career in this career and I'm thinking even or anything right you're insecure about I wonder if these guys like me. I don't care about that anymore. I know who I am as a man. I'm very secure and what it is and now I we've had this conversation. I walk in the station and I wonder if I like these guys. You know what mean? And so I do think it takes we're in a different more mature level now that like it takes somebody like you or me to give a dude and.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Kevin (45:18.648)
how much more welcoming is that guy who is on probation, he's probably insecure, wants to make a good impression. All that gets smashed when somebody comes up and gives him a bro hug. He's like, cool, I'm in the club. I'm in the team. So man, if we can have more bro hugs, I think it's a good thing. No homo, of course.

part of the team.

Nole (45:38.848)
Of of course. Goes without saying. This morning, we had this young man over here. I won't call him a kid, although, because my wife recently said, why are you calling these guys you're talking about kids? Are they really kids? I was like, no, they're like 30. But just to me, because they're new on the job, I call them kids. So I'm trying to get away from that. So this young man, new guy, probationary guy, came out of the camps. He was here for a little while, detailed over. And he's doing the probationary thing. He's in full uniform. And he's like, what do you guys need me to do? And my captain's super cool.

you, well, you want to work out like just down, you can work out. don't have to, there's nothing for you to do. We don't need you to polish anything or whatever. So I say, Hey, do you want to, you want to do a workout together? And he's like, yeah, I'm in. And so I write this workout. It's an EMOM and this guy crushes me in this workout. Just crushes me. And the only reason that I'm telling that story is because in that moment, I had a, I had a really weird, we'll say two rounds in.

Yeah.

Nole (46:36.034)
where I knew right off the bat he was starting with a heavier weight than me. We were doing some barbell stuff. But I was being smart, right? I wasn't going to try to match him because I knew I haven't been doing a lot of barbell stuff. And I knew that the 95 pounds that I chose was going to be tough for me. So he goes above that. So I don't try to match him. So I'm like, OK, I'm being smart. But even then, he's outrepping me every minute. I'm trying not to count him, but you just kind of cannot. You you just working out right next to each other. So I know what he's doing.

and I'm getting beat and I'm thinking, wow, I have now become the quote unquote, some of the audience are gonna hate this, but I have now become the quote unquote old guy, right? Where I'm no longer crushing everyone. And so then of course it was really good for me because it forced me to work hard throughout the whole workout, harder than I would have worked without him there. His name's Tyler Wren, awesome dude. anyway.

So basically the gift that he gave me in destroying me in this workout, and he wasn't doing it in like a malicious sense. He was just getting a good workout in for himself and he's almost a decade younger than me and he's fitter. So, you know, he's going to be better at it. But the thing that was good for me to kind of just notice and recognize was that I want to guard against becoming that older guy on the department that doesn't exercise with the younger guys because I can't keep up.

We're doing a thing.

Nole (48:04.14)
right? Because it's still good to get out there and get after it. My weight is going to be lower. The amount of reps that I can do are going to be lower than the kid who just came out of the camps and is, you know, he's 25 years old or whatever, but I can still get a good workout and still build, still have the camaraderie and the environment. And I'm no longer in that place where I'm just going to beat most people at workouts. I'm just not anymore. And that was, that was a humbling moment for me. But my encouragement is to all you guys out there listening who got annoyed just now that I said old, the old guy,

because I'm only 42, but that's my encouragement to you is get out there and workout with those young guys and just know that you need to be smart about the weight you're choosing. You need to be smart about the amount of reps you're doing. Don't hurt yourself, but go out there and get in a good workout and don't, don't be so prideful because back in the day used to be this, that, and whatever, but just go out there and do what you can do and, get a good workout in and, know, let these young guys crush you because that's what we used to do when we

or you would crush people.

We would crush people, we bury them and was great, it was fun. It's now someone else's turn to do that.

for us. And that's the good perspective right there. It's now your turn, right? Because I actually struggled with this transition quite a bit. Injury leads to injury, and I've had these series of injuries that have completely transformed how I operate. I got some absolute savages with Jason Lloyd and Josh Nessa and Mark Gillan, and they're at studs. they do two days and the afternoon workouts.

Nole (49:33.772)
There's stack down there.

Kevin (49:38.412)
I just, yeah, I'll either pass or I'll have to just dramatically modify based on my naggering injuries. But I realized like I was beating myself quite a bit and I'd get down and actually very impressive. Like, dude, I'm not, I can't hang, you know? But I think the real key is just to get out there and do exactly what you say, be a part of the team and do what you can for yourself and for the team and for whatever else, you know what I mean? And so I just got it. You got to lace up your shoes and just get out there and do what you can.

Yeah. And it's an interesting aspect of this podcast, but especially the program and that we talk about scaling things a lot and how it's not a competition for us in the type of ways that we train. And that's tough to sell the fireman because everything's a competition. But the reality is we tell people this all the time that when you come up to the program, you don't need to be concerned about the workout. We're going to ensure that you get a good workout and that it's challenging for you. But we don't care if you're swinging a 12 pound kettlebell or a 70 pound kettlebell. It doesn't matter.

Nobody cares.

because you're really just working, you're working in the context of yourself and what you're capable of and what's difficult for you. And everybody's at a different phase. Some people are injured. And so they're at a place where they're literally swinging. You know, I've seen our buddy, Mike Kenobi in a place in his life where he was swinging a five pound kettlebell because that's what he was capable of doing based on his injuries. then now he, you know, he's blown well past that. He's right back to the, yeah. Swinging heavier kettlebells than me.

But in that moment, you know, that's tough and it can be easy to sit that out and just go, nah, I'm not gonna do it. Cause the boys, you know, I don't wanna be like, just get past that. this isn't me. I don't want this to be perceived as me like tooting my own horn that I was so great and so humble. Cause I, you know, I looked at the kid, I could tell he was fit, but I still thought in my mind, I can take this guy. And I didn't go into it as a competition. You know, I didn't bill it that way.

Nole (51:31.8)
But you know, everything's a competition. And so in your brain, you are thinking that and it was good.

No, that's a good reminder for me to say not what I can't do or what I used to do, but what can you do? What can you do? Maybe if it's walking on the treadmill, that's what you can do and that's what you should

Kevin (51:52.558)
Well, we have on September 7th, coming up month, we're like a couple of weeks away, a week away, how long away are we? If you're listening to this, it's close. It's our fifth annual 9-11 Memorial Stair Climb. This is one of my favorite family events of the year. Nolan and I put this thing together five years ago. We partnered with StairMaster. It's in Lake Forest, California. The links will be in the show notes.

That's close.

Kevin (52:22.382)
It's completely free and we have some great partners with Next Run and all kinds of people come out from my zone to 511 gear. There's free food. There's three drinks. Um, it's just an incredible family vibe and we put in 110 floors on stair masters. Firemen wear gear, but talk about scaling. have people that come out and don't complete the 110. We have people that come out in PT gear. Some people wear West. Some people wear turnouts.

You can do it however you want, but the whole idea is that we will never forget the 343 firefighters that lost their life on this day. And that this is our way of honoring them, remembering this and having a shared, suffering, you know, as a group, as a family. And one of the coolest things about it is we get to meet so many people from the podcast and the program, but not always their families, but this day, this day is where we get to absolutely meet you and your family and get to grow out.

and do it for a great cause. So come on out. The links are in the show notes. It's completely free, but you do need to sign up and register because they are capping it this year. And so we encourage you to come out and hang out with us for the day. It'll be a great day.

Yes, go sign up right like right now, right now. Stop doing whatever you're doing and go sign up.

run out.

Kevin (53:43.468)
And I, I get this a lot because everyone keeps asking me like, and it comes a lot from the wives and stuff. They're like, I'll just train for it. So I can do it next year. And I'll tell you right now, you can make this as miserable as you want. If you went to the level 13 or 14, you could blast yourself and be in the complete red zone and be, that's the hardest thing you've ever done. But if you, if you chug out at a level four or five, it'll take you around 30 to 35 minutes. And it's just stepping for 30 or 35 minutes. Anybody can do.

Anybody can do it.

And if you can't, nobody will judge you. Get off the thing, ring the bell. We're just happy you're there. So come out.

Yep. point. Good point. You do not need to train for this. Full disclosure, I'm not currently training for this at all. even at all. haven't even looked at a StairMaster since last year.

nowhere am I. I'm not and this is not this is not a this is a memorial right so we've had people that come out and say did I set the record? Nobody timed you bro you know I mean we'll keep an eye on some of the known savages that we know just to say like I'd like to see what he did that in and it's good and you'll know that but nobody's winning any trophies for winning first here this is all about honoring the men that fell.

Nole (54:54.506)
Amen.

This has

Nole (55:08.13)
Well, you heard Kevin talk about it. You got to go sign up for the nine 11 Memorial stair climb. It's coming up way too fast. It's going to be here September 7th. We do have our next class of the fire program in November. And I did just recently this week post dates for our first two classes in 2026. So for all of you savages that love to come out in January, that class is now posted and you can secure your spot now by going and buying tickets. also will be doing a class in May.

that you can sign up for now as well. So go do that. Like and subscribe. Leave us a review. You know, do all the things. If you want to support us here at this podcast, you know what to do. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.

you

Nole (56:17.582)
see, whoa, what just happened?

Dude, my computer's starting to die and I'm terrified. I don't want to buy a new one. Cause I'm in this place where I use this, you know, I use this computer for work, which is program podcast stuff. But then I also use it to play games on. And I lately, I do a lot of gaming with my brother, Edward, as you know, and like my brother-in-law Dustin over in Tennessee. But I also just recently started playing with North and his cousin Gabriel. So

No.

Nole (56:50.242)
I play with Edward North and Gabriel, that there's finally a game that we can all play together. And it's been super fun, like to play with these, you know, it's my son and his cousin and his young kids and me and Edward. we have these great conversations and we're playing these games. really, it's pretty cool. But because I game, I can't just buy any old computer, right? It has to be able to process the podcast and do all that kind of stuff, which is kind of, you know, you need some processing power for that. But if you're going to game, then you need like a different level of processing power. So I'm looking at like.

three grand probably if I were to buy the computer I want and that's just like it's not in the car right now like I'm not not spending three grand on a computer so I don't know what I'm gonna do I hope this thing doesn't die anyway back to my story