257: The Devil is Doing Pushups in the Parking Lot

Fresh off the mountain from Class 15 of the Fire Up Program, Nole and Kevin sit down to discuss the high of the retreat and the immediate "gut punch" of returning to reality. From 13-degree wind chills and frozen towels to skin cancer surgery and emergency room visits, this episode is an honest look at what it means to stay present when the "storms" of life hit all at once. 

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Transcript

Nole (00:00.329)
Man, I hate hearing that.

Kevin (00:01.962)
Welcome back to the fire you carry podcast. It's been a while. We skipped a week and we heard about it. Didn't Hey, but it was for a good reason. We had our 15th, 15th, technically 16, cause we do lack class zero class of fire up program, which to me was one of those powerful weekends I've ever been to.

Nole (00:08.435)
We did. The boys called us out as they should have. Missed a week.

Nole (00:27.349)
Yeah, it was absolutely incredible. was cold and the wind was blowing, but that didn't matter. It was a great time. we had some really great guys out this class. We always do, but it was really good, really good.

Kevin (00:37.453)
Unbelievable.

Kevin (00:41.322)
Yeah, the wind chill is a thing. We don't get a whole lot of wind in Southern California. I mean, we get Santa Annis, but that's like a hot wind. But I remember looking at one point while we were outside and it says, feels like 13. And I'm like, yes, it does. It definitely feels like 13 degrees Fahrenheit.

Nole (00:59.411)
At the end of the class, were, you were busy. didn't get a chance to show you, but on Sunday morning when we were packing out, you know, we'd put those towels down in front of the chest freezers so that when we got in and out, it wasn't straight on the asphalt. And so they had been soaked overnight. And when I went to pick them up in the morning, they were like a sheet of plywood, like you could hold them out straight. They were just completely frozen solid, like a piece of wood. It was cold.

Kevin (01:08.897)
yeah, yeah.

Kevin (01:24.834)
Dang. Now look, we've done this before and I don't think we need to rehash for the listeners, but there were some amazing people for me, like my cousin John Turner that came who was 18. And then we also had like guys from my station like Ian Myers and Captain Dave White, which was incredible to like, hey, we know these guys, I work with them, but to be on that level and learn about them even more, I mean, you're like instantly best friends after literally like a day and a half with them.

And then, but I gotta bring up, I feel like the two most savage dudes that came up were 71 and 72 years old. Dan the man Stratford, who just randomly Googled us and found our program and came out at.

Nole (02:02.965)
Correct.

Nole (02:10.537)
He found us through grok through AI. It's AI. I don't know. It's one of the AIs.

Kevin (02:13.016)
What the hell's Grok? Okay. So somehow internet science got a 72 year old man who came and I'm full disclosure. I was a little worried. I was like, Hey, let's not do this. Hey, let's not do the ice. He looked at me like, and get out of the way and did everything. The night hike, the workouts, the ice pass, but more than anything, he just had just unbelievable wisdom.

And just I learned so much from him and I was so glad he was in the room.

Nole (02:44.127)
Yeah, it was rad. Very cool to see.

Kevin (02:46.414)
And the same thing with the one and only Mike Ruano, is the, guy, Chris Ruano's father. And he had, he was 71 or 72. And it's the exact same thing. He was just nothing but amazing, did everything, has been a retired deputy for decades. And he just made everyone like, it just blew my mind. When I am 72 years old,

Nole (02:56.256)
Yeah.

Kevin (03:12.706)
That is exactly who I would want to be and where I'd want to be is in a group of men always learning, never giving up and getting after it, dude.

Nole (03:23.615)
Yeah, I will say we don't want to do a full on recap of the class, but we kind of do. But I will say that the last thing on Sunday morning before we were done, Mr. Ruano wanted to say something to the group and he got out in the middle of us. We were all circled up and he gave this, this wasn't a speech, but he basically gave a speech. And one of the things that he highlighted, which was so cool to me was that when he came out,

He knew that we were a mix of fire guys and civilians. And he kind of had a little bit of, I don't want to say pause, but he, he kind of had a moment of thinking, how am I going to relate to these guys who are, who are non law enforcement, non fire guys, you know, cause he came from that world. And his statement was that he felt after the weekend, during the weekend, just this amazing level of comradery.

Kevin (04:18.798)
Mmm.

Nole (04:18.825)
with everybody there, regardless of their background or their line of work. And that was so cool for me and I know for you and the other guys that do the program to hear because unbeknownst to him, because we never said it at any point and we're not really very vocal about this, but one of the original goals of the program stated by his son, Chris Ruano, if I remember correctly, one of the first things that he wanted to do was create a place where we could build that camaraderie

that we feel here on the fire department that exists in the military, that exists in law enforcement, that we could build that, but build it with whoever shows up, right? Whether they're UPS drivers or whatever. And so unbeknownst to him, that is one of the goals. And we know that we achieve it every class because we've experienced it, but to have an outsider come in and say, was worried, not worried, that's not the right word, but he was wondering how was this going to work out? How was he going to identify and click with these other men? And then to,

just build this comradery in such a short period of time. He used the word comradery, which is something that we preach here. We take for granted on the fire service a lot of the times because if you're in the right place, it just happens. But I thought that was really cool and super encouraging to hear that this thing that we love so much and we're so passionate about that we've poured our time and our effort into that.

somebody can come from the outside with so much life experience and so much wisdom and get something positive like that out of it. It was really cool. A neat moment.

Kevin (05:52.815)
That's amazing. I'd love to hear that because that's exactly how I felt myself. What we thought it would be is this thing for firemen has turned into so much more. I'm meeting people and having friendships like you couldn't believe. I can feel like I'm probably going to talk to these dudes the rest of our lives in some capacity, whether it's on Facebook or it's whatever. You feel so close and so quickly.

And I know that's because you're having conversations that you are not having anywhere in the world. I know you're not having at the station. You're not having at your house. You're not having it even when you get together with buddies and have a cigar on the golf course. These are conversations that only happen there because it's created space. And I do think that God is moving and is changing what we thought it would be. And then bringing these dudes together, it's just, it's an amazing feeling.

I'm floored that guys like that would come up to our thing and get that much out of it because I have so much respect for them. They're just an amazing, amazing human beings and selfishly. I like, I feel like I get the most out of it. Right. Like, and look, we, we have done a terrible job on like, I'm not a marketing specialist. You and I, we, we, job is to cut holes on a panelized roof. Right. Like we, that's what we've been trained to do.

Nole (06:53.951)
Yeah, yeah.

Nole (07:01.859)
yeah, yeah.

Kevin (07:16.184)
But when we originally put it up, the guys who started it just happened to be fitness dudes. It's Noel Lilly, Chris Ruano, Dave Thiebaud, even myself on a small level, Mike Kenobi, like these guys. when the original pictures that we have up on our website, I've gotten a lot of feedback that said guys are like, I'm not ready for that. I got to get in shape first. And I hope we highlight some of these stories of like Garcia, who came up, who's retired and there's an

other guys that have come up that have not been shaped or these two gentlemen right now that are 72 years old. I hope people listen to this and I hope people see pictures of them in the future on our website because they were the most powerful dudes there for me. And then I think they got a ton out of it as well. And you do not have to be some fitness star and we are not going to try to break you off.

Nole (08:08.171)
Yeah. Yeah. We got to re we got to rework the website, but, I would even, I would even say, dude, on the, the other extreme of that, that if you are that super crazy, excuse me, I'm so I'm getting over a cold. got sick after the program. But I would say if you are super hardcore like fitness and that's your life and you're like that aspect of the program, if you are that guy who's just top notch, um,

Kevin (08:13.102)
I'm Tenesa.

Nole (08:37.385)
that aspect of the program is probably going to disappoint you. It's probably not. If you think you're coming up to a bootcamp where we're going to kick your ass for 48 hours, that's not what's going to happen. So you're going to actually be disappointed, but, we will. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not saying it's going to be lame, but

Kevin (08:44.718)
That ain't it.

Kevin (08:48.526)
We'll push ya. You can push yourself.

Kevin (08:53.934)
If you want to try to hang with Teebo on the mess, good luck. If you want to get pushed, let's go.

Nole (08:57.099)
But that's not for everybody. But one of the things that you've talked about since the first program is that when we come down the mountain, right, we've had this mountain top experience, literally. And when we come down the mountain, you always say that the devil's doing pushups in the parking lot, right? He's waiting for you to come back home to hit you with real life. And before we hit record, you were talking about

Kevin (09:19.129)
waiting.

Nole (09:25.349)
You got jumped, dude. You've been jumped. So let's talk about it. Let's talk about the reality of the fact that we can have these moments like at the program, which are super valuable and they're positive and they're good, but that eventually real world reality comes in and says, you were going to do this. you're all fired up about this. What about this? So talk to me, dude. What's going on?

Kevin (09:26.892)
Yeah.

Kevin (09:46.127)
Yeah, I mean, we literally just get back from our men's retreat with some of my favorite people, you included. And it is almost doesn't seem like real life. You drive up the 18 freeway, then all of a sudden, like I live in a suburban desert wasteland. And we talked about this, but I rolled down my windows, I turn off the music, I start smelling the trees and I'm in nature, right? And you live there and I get why you would live there. It's gorgeous, right? And then we don't really do a whole lot of cell phones or emails. There's no TV.

We got a little bit of music, but we're just growing out. And so it definitely seems like we're secluded. I'm away from work. I'm away from family and I'm away from anything else that would distract me. And so we can really focus on that camaraderie and stuff. But I have this theory that like, even though I have shored up my armor, I am protecting myself against my own weaknesses that the enemy, the devil,

is doing pushups. He's not laying dormant, right? He's like, he's doing pushups in the parking lot waiting for me to drop my guard. And we know we even say, as soon as you go down this hill, we recommitted ourselves to Christ or we follow a new path or we found a new awakening to say, Hey, like, this is what I'm going to work on. We're going to be tested. Right? Like you're going to be tested. And so I get down on the hill and it's just one of those things. My just, my phone is blowing up. I have to get a skin cancer room for my ear.

wife and kids got stuff going on. had this massive leak in our thing, which is like a $4,000 fixed in our roof or he got water coming out and CEO coming out. It was just a disaster. The house was literally falling apart. And then a family member, had an emergency and needed help and was in the ER. And so, it just seemed all of a sudden like, boom. All right, bro. We had this euphoric.

amazing thing and then boom like I hate when those people say bad things come in threes but today they were right you know today they were right and you know and luckily though I'm like I I know that the future is fear like if you think about the past and the things that we have done that are terrible in the past like that's that's regret remorse there's nothing you can do about it right

Nole (11:48.971)
They do. Yeah.

Kevin (12:11.788)
And everything that we fear or anxieties that we have are all the future, which also has, we have no control over. And so I know because of being around you and program guys that we have to be present. There's no guarantee that I even wake up tomorrow. And so one of the things I was, I started with is just breath work. Like I was like driving home with a bloody ear. They just took half of it from the skin cancer thing.

Nole (12:39.883)
Mm.

Kevin (12:40.396)
I can't do nothing about that. And I knew I had to go be with this family member immediately. It's not what I want. I want to go home, take some Tylenol and sit on the couch and say, poor me and be catered to because my ear hurts. But I knew that wasn't the case. I took a breath. I asked my unbelievable wife to say, can you handle things at home? And I went to be through the ministry of presence.

Nole (12:54.912)
Yeah.

Kevin (13:08.29)
The Ministry of Presence means, I don't know, I'm not gonna solve anybody's issues, but I'm gonna be there. Can I get somebody sandwiches? Can I help with a phone call? Can I do anything that I can do? And I don't know what the answers are, but I'm gonna be there. And I was, and I'm so glad I did. I'm so glad I went. And it's just, again, my selfish self-centeredness says, like, this isn't the day. Do we help somebody, right?

This isn't the day I got stuff going on. My house is falling apart. We got people working on it. This isn't the day. But who am I? I don't get determined that I don't get to determine that at all. And then my family member's issue was way more important than mine. And so but what I had to do and maybe we can talk about what you do when the storm comes. But I knew relatively quickly that I had to.

You you have that thing in your head of what you're supposed to do today and all the things that you're balancing. And it's been my experience when emergence, like true emergencies, family emergencies happen. All the little stuff goes away. And like, okay, you think you had plans, you had calendars, cancel them all. We literally, it forces you to be present. And then in the presence, I started doing four eight breathing. I couldn't do Wim Hof at the time because I was going to be on the road, but I started

Nole (14:14.315)
Hmm.

Kevin (14:31.494)
Inhaling for four seconds and exhaling for four seconds. Inhaling for four seconds and exhaling for four seconds. I knew that it wasn't probably the time for 16 cups of coffee and 87 zin. I like, needed to like slow down and be present. And within like 10 minutes of me breathing down the freeway, I felt like, okay, God's got a plan. I'm, this is what I think he wants me to do. And I'm centered.

And then I asked God for help. said, show me what you would like me to do today. Show me where it could be of service. And then I prayed for the family and for this family member. And I felt a little bit of relief, not that the initial was like, my God, everything's fucked. You know, like, sorry to cut, but like the initial thing where things are hitting three things at once, major things, it was insane. And I was not act. was like, insanity mode. Right. And then,

you do a little breath work, I ask God for help, and all of a sudden it seems like, just do the next indicated task. The next indicated task is the drive from point A to point B.

Nole (15:38.188)
Yeah, which is so hard to do. mean, you're totally right. The future, the future is fear, right? When we're living in the future, most of the time we're not forecasting out all the great, wonderful things that are going to happen. We're thinking about how could this go wrong? All the different scenarios, you know, with your family member in the hospital, you're thinking about what's going to happen to wife, kids, work, there's all kinds of other things attached to that.

And your brain immediately goes into solutions mode, you know, and how, how am going to do this? What am I going to do? What's going to happen? And there's nothing in that moment that you can really do about any of that. And so being able to, to slow down, do that breathing for you, which centers yourself and, then just focus on that task that's immediately in front of you that that's really hard to do. And it's so easy to get spun up in those moments.

But if you can pull that off, when you can pull that off, then it does allow you when you show up to do that ministry of presence that you're talking about where you're just there and you certainly find things to do in places to be useful in that context, especially who you are and your background, but you're available for that, whatever that is. And even if it's just to be a presence in the room and a listening ear,

If you're all spun up and stressed and worried, you're not going to be the same type of calming and reassuring presence as you could be if you're able to just let that stuff go. And it takes a moment. It takes that moment of self-reflection to slow down and really just look at the reality of it. And you talked about it many times before on this podcast, but

Nole (17:35.369)
And I just totally lost my train of thought. had somewhere I was going with that.

Kevin (17:40.983)
No, that's right. Yeah. You know, I'm aware and I get reminded of my wife often and we talk about this to literally take stock and know that you have to take care of yourself first before you take care of anybody else. And there's that analogy, you you have to put on your own oxygen mask before you put on anybody else. And I think I think there is value to that. Right. But there.

Nole (17:42.889)
It'll come back to me.

Nole (18:03.359)
Hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (18:08.536)
There are reasons why I think that you know, are a fireman and I'm a fireman. And I know that like in emergency type of situations, we haven't done this for that long, but I thrive, you thrive. And I do think it's because of maybe a chaotic background or that you were in Afghanistan, Iraq in a war. And like we, I'm more comfortable in chaos or when it's going down, like I'm in my element. I'm like ting, ting, ting, ting. Things are happening. Boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Nole (18:20.192)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (18:36.972)
And then it's the downtime when I'm left to my own devices and there's nothing going on that I'm I strayed from the path more or I'm not as effective as a person or I I'm not using my time wise there. I just all of a sudden I'm like, I just scrolled YouTube for four hours and got did nothing. You know what mean? Or like, do you know what I'm talking about? So I do think that that could be a military first responder thing as I'm more comfortable knowing that like, Hey, you want me on the team?

Nole (18:45.611)
Hmm.

Nole (18:55.787)
yeah.

Kevin (19:06.698)
in a personal life when things hit the fan. Like I'm good in a stressful environment, right? But at the same time, I have to be cognizant of to say, like, my wife is like, hey, take stock. Are you okay? Have you taken the medicine post surgery? Have you done? And I, I, and I had to be honest with her and say, yeah, I did some breathing. I feel centered. I feel like I'm available to help and I feel good. And, I have a little bit of pain, but so does everybody else, but

I feel good. But I'm glad we have those talks now because she knows me of 20 years that I have had the tendency to take on too much and I am the one that suffers. Right. And so I think that's a good thing to know is to say, hey, let's take stock. And yes, I would be able to help you, but I have to make sure that I'm checking into my priorities, my faith, my family, my fitness, my mental, spiritual, all those things need to be aligned.

Nole (19:40.074)
Yeah.

Nole (19:45.172)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (20:04.96)
It's never perfect, but I was candid enough to say, yeah, let's take a quick self-assessment and say, yes, I can go do this. I feel okay.

Nole (20:14.377)
Yeah, that's really good. That's solid. And that kind of relationship only comes through consistent communication, especially when it relates to coming back from something like this program. And then that's what I was going to highlight that I lost my train of thought on. You briefly mentioned it. You've talked about it a bunch of other times before, but we, often fall into this idea that, you know, I deserve this. I deserve X, Y, or Z. So after the program,

Kevin (20:31.598)
Mm.

Nole (20:44.841)
We come down off the mountain or for me, I stay on the mountain, but we're tired, right? We're physically and mentally exhausted after the program. We're drained. And you know, for me on a much lower level, I come home and I'm starting to get sick, right? I caught a, I caught a cold of some kind there or before who knows, but it doesn't matter. I'm starting to feel under the weather and I would like nothing more than just to sit on the couch and, and chill. the reality is,

Kevin (20:51.842)
Totally.

Nole (21:14.323)
that we've got a car, the sunroof is leaking and has filled the car with water. And so I got to take it to the shop and I got to get it sealed up and fixed before my wife goes on a trip this weekend. And so there's things to be done and I can't just sit. And in addition to that, I come home to a family that hasn't seen me in a couple of days that there's stuff going on with the kids and it's just life happening. And I can't come home and just shut it down and climb in bed and go to sleep. Now, what I did do that first day,

Kevin (21:19.15)
No, no.

Nole (21:44.436)
is I did that, that honest self-assessment. And I did tell my wife in the morning when I got back, said, Hey, I could really use a 30 minute nap would now be an okay time to take a quick, just kind of power nap. And, you know, she was busy feeding the kids and she was like, yeah, go ahead. So I did that. And, you know, that was helpful. And it was a little bit of time away from the family, but it was recognizing that I, I needed a little bit of rest before I could engage in the rest. you, whoa.

Kevin (22:12.11)
That's so smart though. That's so smart. And knowing you guys like how many times have we failed at that? Like I haven't told them and then yeah, let's go grab, you know, grab a monster and then, and then guess what happens? Like disaster, either you're a dick or then something blows up. And so, I mean, that's growth. That's real growth to me.

Nole (22:18.099)
Yeah. And just tried to power through. Yeah.

Nole (22:26.315)
you

Nole (22:30.983)
Every time. Yeah. Yeah. And there's a level of flexibility there that has to be, I think, learned. Maybe some of us have it innately, but to be able to step into those, mean, for you, yours is super dynamic. Obviously you knew that you had to go in, you know, for this surgery. So you're aware that that's happening, but then the issue with your house, the issue with your family member, those come out of the blue. So you've got to have a level of flexibility to

Kevin (22:34.977)
Yeet. Yeet.

Nole (22:58.601)
be able to do like what you said and to say, okay, everything else gets tabled. And now this is my focus. And that kind of stuff, if we let it can be crippling to the point where we're not available for the family member who's in an emergency because we're so attached to either the attitude of, I, I need to rest. This is my day that I'm supposed to be doing this or just paralysis by the fact that, well, my calendar says I'm supposed to be doing this today.

Kevin (23:27.278)
Yeah, Adapt. Adapt.

Nole (23:28.105)
you know, and that's a real thing. And that can, that, that can eat away at you on the inside and make it so that maybe even you still show up for the family member. But again, in the back of your head, you're like, I'm supposed to be doing this. I'm missing this. I'm missing this deadline. You know, that, that level of flexibility is, it's super valuable.

Kevin (23:47.777)
Yeah, you you said something, I think, as we were leaving on Sunday that, you know, you hit your word quota, like, and it's so funny. I think my word quota is more than yours, but I also hit my word quota. And because we have a few years, maybe four years of doing the program, like my wife and I learned, like, she wanted to know everything. Right?

Nole (23:55.668)
I did.

Nole (24:12.489)
The download, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (24:13.91)
I want to know every person, everything. And in the beginning, I'd come home from the program and I would do that. And then I'd be even more tired or I'd get sick like you were. And so she knows now she knows that not like Sunday, I come home, I take a shower. The girls are all over me after the shower. And we usually just watch movies and I fall asleep by like seven 30 on the couch. But Monday morning, we have a cup of coffee and I just, I just go nuts. And I tell her everybody and everything and all this cool stuff.

Nole (24:22.997)
Yeah.

Nole (24:42.015)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (24:43.896)
But it's to her credit, she's like, yeah, we'll talk tomorrow. I know you're tired. but I, I, I want her to bring up something that you've helped me with. and I think it's just your style coming from an army ranger and you talk about it in your perspective, but the program is like having SOPs and SOGs and literally preparing for emergencies. Not only just obviously we're, waiting for the big earthquake in LA, but like having room.

Nole (24:47.687)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (25:14.09)
in finances, having room in schedules, having room to make sure that when, not if, when things happen, you have room. Now, like we have this major financial thing going on, a disaster in the house. Well, that's part of the cost of being a homeowner. Now, do I have it? No, but I had a home equity line of credit that has a zero balance in case of emergencies. And I do have, you know, stocks and I can have

Nole (25:38.399)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (25:41.795)
cash reserves and I have other things that I've prepared for. And so that's only because we haven't in the past and I had to follow like a Dave Ramsey program and didn't we followed it to the T and I'm glad we did because when something like this comes up, it's not the end of the world for our family. It's just like, okay, cool. We got it. Does it hurt? Hell yes. hurts. Yeah. Well, yes, it's painful. And to pay that off, I know I'm going to have to go work overtime and be away from my family.

Nole (25:59.692)
Hmm.

Kevin (26:11.032)
but we're going to be fine. We're going to have a tax return soon. We'll pay it off. No big deal, but having room for emergencies. And I think also having room in your calendar and having the support of my wife and knowing that she could roll up her sleeves and say, I got the kids, we'll do the school thing. They also have lacrosse practice, hockey practice, gymnastics. They got all the things. She's like, I'm on go take care of the family.

Nole (26:35.349)
Yeah.

Kevin (26:39.222)
We've built that in on our lives, right? And I think it only, it only pops up from time to time. But I think that's, that's an important SOP SOG is to not say what happens in a real emergency on a fire is to have those SOPs SOGs, but your SOPs in your life to say, when a big thing happens and might not be to me, but maybe to us or my extended family or friends,

I got room to make sure that I can be available or I can take care of the problem, if that makes sense.

Nole (27:12.201)
Yeah, absolutely. And that, again, that comes from clear communication and, and really just walking through that type of thing. But it's, it's good, especially in the context of the relationship between, you know, husband and a wife, where if something happens in my wife's family or her circle, she just knows that if it's something that we can help with or that our presence will help with, like we're just going to do it because that's, that's

how we operate. was demonstrated to us. People have done that for us. And so we do that for other people. And in a really kind of, I think important and cool way, that's also an opportunity to demonstrate that type of behavior to your kids, right? So then that's the type of thing that they carry on and continue to do. And man, I can't agree with you more on the financial side of it because

Kevin (27:54.318)
Holy.

Nole (28:04.371)
I'm not good with money. You know, you know, personally, we've, we've had some really tough financial, situations in our family and it's just never been a strength of mine. And I will say from personal experience that when you don't have that, that backup, that, savings, that method, that plan to deal with the unexpected expenses that shouldn't be called unexpected. Cause we all know they're going to happen. We just don't know when, but when something like that hits,

and you don't have the ability to take care of it, it becomes twice the problem and just becomes something earth shattering where it could be just a pretty severe inconvenience, right? But if it's a, if it's a severe inconvenience, and then on top of that, you have no idea how you're going to pay for it. That becomes a really big problem. And the only way that we can protect ourselves from that is by doing the smart thing, by going through those programs, by being

Kevin (28:42.86)
Right.

Kevin (28:46.84)
Right.

Nole (29:02.911)
financially aware enough and intelligent enough to prepare and just being a person who has been in those places where I'm not is, I mean, the only thing I can say is that if you have, if you have any ability to recognize that you're that person and that you're not prepared, go talk to somebody, take a class, figure out a way to get prepared because those things are coming. You're going to end up with a needing to replace a water heater or a car that's leaking or, know, whatever you mean.

Kevin (29:31.062)
It's a guarantee, right?

Nole (29:31.943)
It's a guarantee. You guys listening to this know obviously you've lived enough life. You know that stuff's coming and

Kevin (29:36.463)
Yeah, but I don't, I don't, I think where we, if we, we all make mistakes and I have made the most. And if anybody knows my background story, we were in the mortgage industry in 2008 and we lost everything we, we lost and foreclosed on a house and lost everything. multiple houses. I had all this, all these things and I was so leveraged that when there was a downturn in the market, we lost everything. But I'm, I'm glad and today, this day grateful.

that we got destroyed, destroyed because it forced, it forced me to like have to find out how to live off the beans and rice and live within my means. And now, now we, you know, we, build in that we, live very conservatively financially, but good because when yes, literally yesterday at emergency happens, okay, we're all right. You know, we're going to be all right. And so I would really encourage you guys like that.

There's no problem. We all make stupid mistakes financially. That's we're human. But if you continue to make those over and over again, maybe we just take stock and say like exactly what Noel's doing and saying, what is somebody else doing? My thing was Dave Ramsey's Financial Peace University. He hits the nail on the head. He has a biblical perspective on how to do it. And then you don't have to reinvent the wheel. There's literally a seven step process. Step one, step.

two, step three. And what he always talks about is preparing for the inevitable. If you don't think, let me throw a stat out to you. I think it's something like, he says, 72 % of Americans cannot cover a thousand dollar emergency on their car. And if you don't think, if you rely, and which I do on a vehicle, I live 80 miles away from my work. If you don't think that my tires are going to break or the

Nole (31:23.326)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (31:35.937)
Alternator is not going to go out or then bet like if you don't prepare for that and you cannot go to work You're an idiot, right? But I live most of my life that way being like I was shocked that I have to replace tires and how the hell are we gonna replace tires, right? And so like so now like going through his thing It just bats me over the head to say okay step one is save a thousand bucks Step one is save a thousand bucks step two is pay off as much as you're dead in a dead snowball

Nole (31:48.659)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (32:04.45)
That sounds overwhelming, but he's got a plan for it. And then step three is you save for an emergency and then you put a little way into your retirement accounts and then you do things. So we're literally in the middle of this thing and it could take decades for his plan to work. It could take decades, but at least I have in my head a plan and I have a strategy that smarter people than me know. And then when literally yesterday hits, Hey, the plan's working. We're okay. And I get to see it like,

Nole (32:21.29)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (32:32.898)
I don't know about your wife, but wives in general seem to have like their hairs on fire. The world is falling apart. Now, when I give her a pat on the butt and say, we're going to be okay. This, this is what I planned for. We have, we, we got this. It's no big deal. I just watch her shoulders drop and I see a little gratitude and she says, thanks so much for taking care of us. And that makes me feel good.

Nole (32:56.619)
Yeah. Amen. Amen. We did the Dave Ramsey thing many years ago too. And I also speak very highly of it and definitely recommend it if you're in a place where, well, really for anybody. But if you're not like my brother Edward, who's got it all figured out financially, if you're not that guy, check it out.

Kevin (33:17.326)
Check it out. Now, the second thing I did is after breathing, right, I knew we were okay. Home life is taken care of. I put my oxygen on masks first. We did that check. And then I was just present. And I don't know what episode your dad, your dad's been on multiple episodes. I don't know if it was the first one or if it was the one that we did. Why do bad things happen to good people? But he talked about what the ministry of presence is.

Nole (33:42.037)
Hmm.

Kevin (33:46.055)
is and what it looks like. And he has an amazing story of just being on, just being there. And yes, and he said, nobody will remember a single thing that you say in this tragedy, but they will remember that you were there. And that always stuck out to me when we talked to Pastor Jeff Lilly, your dad, is that nobody, I don't have to think about what should I say? How am I going to make this better? What? No, it doesn't matter.

Just be there. And at some point I realized I can get sandwiches when people are hungry. You know what mean? I'm like, that's it. That's all you gotta do. And I don't need to, it hasn't have to be some grandiose thing. I'm here, I'm taking over. No, just be there. Just be there.

Nole (34:31.743)
Yeah. For most of us, don't have, maybe for all of us, but we don't have the gift of knowing the perfect thing to say. And I think there's a lot of tragic situations where there isn't a perfect thing to say, right? There really aren't any words, but even if there were, most of us don't have the gift of being able to orate that in those moments. So the biggest gift that we all have that everybody has is time, right? That's our most finite resource. And when we,

demonstrate that we care about people involved in whatever tragedy they're going through with our time, with our presence, right? Because every time you do what you just did, where you go to the hospital, that's your time, right? You're being there and you're taking away your time from whatever was on your calendar. You're taking away your time from your family, your work, whatever. But that is, it does speak volumes because it's just universally known by people because we all...

We all have the same amount of time, right? And it's never enough and none of us know how much we have, but when you take that and you invest it in someone else, even if it's just being in the room while they're going through a hard time, man, it speaks volumes. And I know you and I have both been on the receiving end of that, right? Which is why it's something that is important to us to forward and why we are sitting here right now talking about it because

we do find so much value in it when you receive it. And then also when you're able to give it, it's just, it's hugely important. And it's not complicated. That's the thing I love about what you just highlighted is you don't have to go into that situation.

quote unquote prepared. There's nothing to say that they may not be anything to do. And the things that you can do, you keep highlighting the sandwiches, like getting food and bringing drinks and stuff like that. Anybody can do that. It's not a big deal. That's a daily thing you do anyway.

Kevin (36:23.948)
Yeah, and in fact, I talk too much. should probably shut the hell up and just be, right?

Kevin (36:31.318)
And then step three for me and this whole thing is I'm asking you, I am been so blessed to know who is in my corner, who is my corner man, who are my accountability partners? And more than anything, I have identified who is my inner circle. No, you were one of the four in my inner circle. Right. And no one knows that. Right. And no one knows that when it hits the fan, he might be one of the first one or two phone calls. Right.

And so when it hits the fan, I have my inner circle. I know as soon as I got out, like I probably need when, when the time was appropriate, which is today, I talked to you, right? And like, I talked to others and I talked to people that I check in saying, Hey, this is going on. I'm good. Right. But it's, it's hot in the kitchen right now. Right. And I think having not having to isolate, isolation is death.

but to literally let your accountability partners. Now I do put a little bit of a front on to the wife and kids saying, Hey, we're going to be all right. That's good. We're good. Everybody's going to be good because I want them to know, but I'm honest with them to say, this is not an easy time. This is a really hard day. Um, and, but we're going to get through it. I want to let them know we're resilient, but at the same time, I have to drop my guard down with the people closest to me who do not judge who love unconditionally, but also want to know.

What the hell's going on with you? And I am so overwhelmingly blessed that because of, think the fire up program, like literally the cadre in there are like my inner circle now. And we've become like blood brothers. Like I'm blessed and I know that, but if you do not have that, like that would be my number one priority for you right now is to go find that dude.

Nole (38:25.483)
Yeah. And coming from a background of being that guy who didn't have men in his corner, who was just kind of drifting through life and then tragedy hit. And then being on the other side of that now where I do have guys like you and others, most of whom are the program guys, which is super rad. But, but yeah, I mean, we, we actually talked about this a lot in, in the little group.

Bravo at this last program. And the question was brought up, well, okay, well, how do I find those guys? And we had some very interesting conversations about that. And we landed on a couple of things and this isn't a definitive list or the only way this has to happen, but.

Kevin (38:55.938)
Bravo.

Nole (39:18.589)
One of the things I do talk about, cause we talk about this at the program, is that in order to have guys in your corner that you can call when things are going bad, you have to be that guy too, right? For somebody else. Like it's not a one way street, but for somebody who's looking at that from the outside and saying, I have none of that. don't have, I mean, literally having, having someone sitting there saying, really don't have any friends. Like I've been in that place. And so then as a man, an adult man, like,

Kevin (39:28.874)
Yes. Yes.

Nole (39:47.606)
we're not kids on the playground anymore who can meet on the monkey bars and go, Hey, my name is Noel. What's your name? Or, okay, you want to be my friend? Yeah. And then you're like, it doesn't work that way when you're an adult, at least not in my experience. So how do you do that? And the thing that kind of we came down to, and I'd love your, your thoughts and input on this beyond this, but the thing that we came down to is because we're men and we kind of need activities to be doing in order to, talk and have conversations.

You need to find a group of guys that are either doing something that you're interested in, like golfing, surfing, whatever, and start having those conversations. Start trying to do things with those guys outside of that group. Start kind of exploring those groups. So if you've got a men's Bible study, a group you go surfing with, whatever, that type of thing, those are the places to start because there's some shared interests and there's some activities that can be engaged in so that you're not just, I don't know, trying to meet a guy on the train and be like, Hey, what's your story? You know, cause

For most of us, we don't communicate that way. We don't work that way. We're not, I don't even know if women work that way, but it seems like they do where they can just sit and talk. We kind of need something to be doing. But that was kind of one of the things we came to is start there. But the biggest kind of, I don't know, revelation that I had in that moment was that it's hard and that it takes a level of putting yourself out there, which is as men, we just kind of don't do. And

I'm not talking about immediately downloading on people and being vulnerable, right? Or authentic. But I am talking about in order to do that, you're going to have to put yourself out there a little bit and actually say to the guy who you normally go surfing with, hey man, you want to go have a cup of coffee later today or another day this week or whatever? Like you have to do that. And I think for me that maybe this isn't the same for everybody, but I'm often resistant to doing that type of thing because I don't want to seem

weird. You know, I don't want to be, I don't want to be the guy like, what's wrong with you? No, get away from me. I want to be rejected. You know what I mean? But the reality is that it isn't ever like that. And

Nole (42:00.138)
I don't know. I think that's a starting point is trying to find those groups of guys that you already have shared interests with that you already kind of have some contact with. And if you don't have that, then that's where you have to start. You have to start getting into a group of guys like that that are doing something that you're interested in.

Kevin (42:15.628)
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I have some thoughts on this. number one is like, is I had the greatest example is Leon Broussard the third, which we called pops. I've never met. He had a form of genius, in my opinion, where he could walk into a room, and walk out with 10 brand new friends. You could be standing in the line of DMV and

Nole (42:28.084)
yeah.

Kevin (42:43.006)
he would walk out with three best friends and, and he just anywhere he went. But when I, when I look back at it, it was at the core of it was a genuine love of people. And he was present. He put his phone away in his pocket. And if he was standing next to somebody, he thought it was purposeful and he introduced himself. And then he had some form of way to find something in common with the guy, even though we never think that anybody would have anything in common with them. And when I, when I watched him, he was generally always Leon.

He didn't change his personality, whether it was a room full of billionaires or guys from college football. He never changed. He never changed his tone, his dialect. He would cuss in front of both of them and it seemed wildly appropriate. You know what I mean? you know what I mean? Like it was just that guy. He was just always Leon. There was, you always were going to get the most authentic version of himself. And I think so many, oftentimes we walk in, like if I walk into a jujitsu thing,

Nole (43:27.452)
Yeah.

Kevin (43:40.463)
pretend that I know something and I'm trying to look at the culture and what's this all about. If I go into a fire station, I'm trying to pick up their lingo and see what they say. And then if I go into a room of Hispanics, I try to say, hola como estamos, you know what mean? Like, no, like I feel like it, if you lead with us and authenticity and you have the balls to introduce yourself and to have like an authentic, honest conversation, you're, you're going to be instantly like,

Nole (43:41.44)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (43:53.503)
Yeah.

Kevin (44:09.09)
And I think that's where people loved Leon so much because he always didn't come in egotistically saying, look how amazing I am. He just started asking questions about them and then say something silly about what he just did. Like I tried to put gas in a brand new car that was all electric, you know, and he'd say like, and he'd say something silly about himself and then everyone's guards would drop down and then you'd be a friend. you hit the nail on the head. If I go to work.

Nole (44:33.097)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (44:38.584)
and I come home and I go to work and I come home and I go to work and I come home. I you don't have a third space and you're not trying to, you have to look for it. And I think what we've done well is sign up for things, whether it be the Highland games, Jiu-Jitsu, a BMX race, whatever it may be, is you got to sign up for things, things that you have interest in and go to that. It could be Dungeons and Dragons tournament. Go to the tournament.

Nole (44:45.514)
Hmm.

Nole (45:05.023)
Hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (45:07.414)
I bet you find somebody that has something shared common with you, right? But you have to get your shoes on and get out of the isolation and put yourself out there.

Nole (45:18.197)
Yeah. One of the things that, Dan actually brought up in our group though, and I thought was really good. And again, this is another thing you've touched on, but he basically said that there's been times in his life where somebody from the past will kind of come into his mind. And this is the aspect that you've talked about. And he's felt like I should call that guy, but it's been one, maybe two years. That's kind of weird. But then he goes ahead and does it and has a great conversation. And that's, think,

Well, I don't know. I feel like that's a unique thing with guys, but I do, they're not going to call. It's a struggle, but I do feel like I have a lot of friends from the past that I haven't talked to in years for whatever reason, but that we can get on the phone or if we're fortunate enough, we can meet in person and immediately have that connection again. And it's like, we kind of pick up right where we left off and it's not weird or awkward because we haven't talked in years. So that could be another place that you start to.

Kevin (45:50.19)
That's huge. Yeah, they're not going to call.

Nole (46:15.837)
If you've got a buddy from the past, maybe it's even as far back as high school, but reach out to that dude, see what he's up to. And I've never had a conversation with a guy that's, you know, two, three years removed that was, that was weird or awkward. It's always been rad. And maybe that in the end, that's not your cornerman, but that's another place that you can start to is, is reach back to the people who used to be close to you, who've drifted apart for life reasons, right? That happens to all of us. And when those people do pop into your mind,

Kevin (46:22.285)
Yeah.

Nole (46:44.779)
man, I wonder what Justin's doing. Just call the guy. And the flip side of that, and this is, I admitted this in the group, but this is the hard part for me is that when those guys call me, my default is, oh, I don't have time for that right now, right? I don't answer the phone because it's hard for me to make phone calls, to have those conversations. Like I have a limited amount of words in a day. And the answer is not to do that. It's to take the call. It's to answer. That guy's calling for a reason. Maybe it's no big deal reason. Maybe it is a big deal reason, but you got to answer the phone.

Kevin (47:14.67)
when it's important and what I do is obviously oftentimes we're busy either at work with the family or with anything like this, right? But if somebody's calling me, I know how important that is, right? And I just say, hey, I'm in a podcast or I'm gonna be driving home. Can I call you then or is it an emergency? And I just send a text message. And usually they're like, oh, no big deals, bro. I'll just check in and say, what's up? I'm like, cool, I'll call you Tuesday when I'm driving home. And then I literally have to write it in my calendar. Call John Tuesday morning, right?

Nole (47:20.403)
Right. Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (47:30.175)
Right, Totally.

Nole (47:41.259)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (47:44.047)
But then I feel like I can have overlapping things. If I have a task to do in the garage, that's going to take an hour. I'll put on my headset and I'll call the guy when I'm doing the task. Right. If I am driving home, I love listening to audio books and podcasts, but I know that's a time where I can catch up with dudes, especially firemen who are also driving home. Right. And so like I, I schedule it in my calendar and put leave room for the emergency calls or the guys that are in my corner that need a phone call. But I,

Nole (47:53.845)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (48:13.55)
I also just make sure that we're communicating. We just have a text. Hey bro, I'm right in the middle of this. Can I call you back or you know what I mean or whatever, but you're so right. Like you have to reach out, but you also have to, when that phone call comes back, figure out when the best time that is. I had this story, dude. I listened to this. I just thought about this. I was listening to a podcast and this guy said, have you ever had a time like in your life that you had somebody just said something in passing?

Nole (48:28.053)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (48:41.154)
That might've seemed insignificant, but it was like world changing for you. He said they were in this group in high school. Think of high school. Yeah. I you grew up in the mountains, but I was at a public school high school and everybody was. And he said that they were about to start this health class. And he's like, there was an insignificant teacher that I don't even remember what his name was, who was like the health science teacher, right? Or it's just a lame class that nobody had to take. And all the seniors had to take it anyways. And they were like jaw jacking and he was trying to get the class started.

and it wasn't working and like the salty seniors, somebody screamed out, we're going to be friends forever. And then he said this insignificant teacher who was probably in his late 40s just said, no, you're not. Here's the reality. And then just goes in and just sit and says, like, you'll probably know one to two, if you're lucky, three of these people. And then you're going to go out of high school. Everyone's going to get jobs. Some will go to college. Some will do their things.

Some of go to the military and then many of you will get married, some of you won't, many of you move different places. And then you're gonna have a child, right, and you're probably around your 30s, and then you're gonna have a pressure to work, and so you're gonna work and you're gonna take care of that child. And eventually your only friend is gonna be your child's friend who you meet on the playground. And that they happen to go to the park at the same time.

Nole (50:04.563)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (50:08.558)
And he said, it was such a depressing eye opening thing that he said, I don't know if that's true or not, but it had such a, such a feeling of truth to it that it like, it completely changed the directory of his life where he said, he knew that when people came into his life, he was going to try to maximize that time with them and be very cognizant that either their time was fleeting or that

Nole (50:18.773)
Yeah.

Nole (50:30.187)
Hmm.

Kevin (50:36.832)
in this season of his life, whether it was college or whatever, that he was going to make a conscious effort to continue to keep in touch with them. And I thought that was really interesting because it's a funny story of a health teacher that just threw out a comment. But he said the reality was he did go to college. He did get married. They did move four states away. And then he said he started realizing that his friends were the same friends that his kids met on the playground and they invited him to dinner and he

Nole (51:04.426)
Yeah.

Kevin (51:06.764)
And then he just had this poof, I remember this thing. And he just started reaching out to all of his past friends who were very meaningful to him and then developed those relationships. And he said, they have thriving relationships now. And, it's a, it's a funny story, but I'm like, it is true. That's very common for most people. And we're lucky cause we've, we've built something. We've built something where we have constant people coming into our lives that have similar interests, shared path in, and I want to walk a path.

Nole (51:14.101)
Mmm.

Nole (51:18.293)
Yeah.

Kevin (51:35.18)
And those are the guys that I want to walk life with. And they call me and I call them.

Nole (51:39.756)
Yeah, dude, that's funny. I was at the skate park yesterday with Indy down in Redlands and I've been picking up skating again, which I quit doing when I was like 19 and joined the military, but he wants to skate. So I got a board and I got a helmet and we're skating and I'm terrible and I'm trying to teach him. But there was another dad there with his young son, probably about the same age as Indy. And he was also skating. And you could tell we were both the same guy. Like we were, you could tell we were from totally different worlds, but we were both the dads.

Kevin (51:45.26)
Yeah.

Nole (52:08.543)
that skated 20 years ago. They're now like trying to like show our sons what's up. And we didn't become instant best friends. I don't know the guy's name. I didn't get his number, but we had a moment where we were talking a little bit and it was rad. And it was one of those moments where afterward I was like, I should have got some information from that guy because our kids probably would have wanted to skate together and we'll see each other there again, I'm sure. But it is funny how that type of thing happens where it's like, I've never seen you before in my life. We're probably not.

Kevin (52:09.774)
Thank

Drop in.

Kevin (52:18.094)
Yeah.

you

Kevin (52:29.314)
There it is.

Nole (52:35.613)
similar in very many ways, but there's probably a lot of ways where we're totally similar. And this is at least one of them that were, were washed up dads trying to show our kids how cool we used to be when we used to skate. But, that's, that is funny.

Kevin (52:46.638)
That's so funny. I love it. I guarantee you're going to see him at the skate park again. And now I'm going to, now it's going to be in the back of your head because we talked about it you're like, Hey bro, what's your name? This is so weird and not homo, but I need your number. Did we nearly? Yeah. Want to do karate in the ground? Yeah. No, I just think, you know, I know we're, we're running out of time here, but I think the crux of this whole thing, if you were out there, you're either.

Nole (52:52.616)
Yeah.

Right. gotta hit that guy up. Yeah. Find out who he is.

You want to be friends?

Kevin (53:15.658)
in a storm, coming out of a storm, or you're about to get into a storm. And you better prepare. You better prepare because if you know anything about life, what Noel and I have learned, and I'm not speaking for Noel, is that a storm of some sort is coming. That it's just how this works. And that we can either run away from it or we can run straight through to it. But I have learned now we've had so many storms after storms that I better prepare for it.

I better know who's in my corner. I doing the right things personally that make sure that I'm centered to go attack the storm? Right. And, I don't know what else, but I think I'm just thinking, I mean, it feels so helpful to talk to you and talk to my inner circle and to know that this storm too shall pass. And would it be easier to numb myself with weed and alcohol and just be like, I deserve to relax.

Yes, but that's not my path. I've chosen a different way, which is a harder way. And I'm glad it's hard. I'm glad I'm glad I have to face this stone cold sober. I have to feel the pain and literally and figuratively and then go right through it. And I think it's been my experience. get better faster because that's the way to head into the storm is to address it straight on, go right into it. And you're going to come out of the other side faster.

Nole (54:44.007)
Amen. Well said.

Well said.

Kevin (54:49.026)
This has been the Fire You Carry Podcast.

Nole (54:54.197)
that I forgot to play the music.

If you're on the audio version, you'll hear the music.

Kevin (55:00.941)
Yeah.