265: Get Off the X: Surviving Life’s Ambushes

In this episode, Nole and Kevin dive into the importance of environmental conditioning—both physical and mental. They discuss why training in the heat and "getting off the X" during life's toughest seasons is vital for first responders. From the restorative power of fly fishing with Hold the Line to the contagious nature of a leader’s attitude when things get tough. This conversation explores how we can better prepare ourselves for the inevitable ambushes of life.

Key Takeaways

• Training in the Elements: Nole emphasizes that since the job happens outside, your fitness should too. Acclimatizing to heat and discomfort ensures you can perform when the stakes are high.
• The Contagious Leader: Whether you are at the fire station or the dinner table, your mood sets the tone. The guys discuss the "vibe" and how music, attitude, and presence affect those around us.
• Navigating the Ambush: Life will inevitably "ambush" you with trouble. Borrowing from military and tactical concepts, Kevin and Nole discuss the importance of having an SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) for when things go wrong, starting with moving off the "X."
• The Healing Power of Water: A look at the science and soul behind being near water, featuring a highlight of the Hold the Line fly fishing program for first responders.
• The Forge of Life: A deep dive into the "terrible truth" that growth often requires being broken and reforged, drawing parallels between blacksmithing and spiritual development.

Big thank you to My Epic and Facedown Records for the use of their song "Hail" in our podcast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz2RZThURTU&ab_channel=FacedownRecords

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Transcript

Nole (00:01.687)
You know what to do.

Kevin (00:16.592)
Welcome back to the Fire You Carry podcast. No, we're talking about fitness. It's hot.

Nole (00:23.638)
Yeah, I wanted to throw something out there right now. And that's why, that's why I wanted to throw it out there because it is hot. I would just like to reiterate that.

Nole (00:34.508)
the standard of fitness you should be seeking after when the weather changes, when you've got inclement weather is you need to be doing whatever it is you're doing, in my opinion, outside.

Kevin (00:47.497)
Outside. Sometimes I hated you for this. It was like, you know, like it was just like raining and you're like, we're just going to be soaked. Yeah.

Nole (00:50.05)
Because when you... I know.

Nole (00:58.22)
This morning, I would have loved some rain because it was hot. And actually I didn't work out until after lunchtime. So it was really warm. But especially if you're in the fire service or even the law enforcement world, like where is your job going to happen? It's going to happen out in the elements. And when it's hot, if you haven't worked on being acclimatized to it, it's going to take a toll on you. You may not fall out and not be able to do your job. But if you've worked on that and gotten used to working out and pushing yourself in the heat.

it's going to benefit you. doesn't mean it's going to get easy, but you will do better. And as demonstrated by the fact that the workout I did this morning, I have done before and watching my heart rate on the my zone, I watched it climb from the blue to the green and rapidly into the yellow where normally this workout would be kind of in the low green. But because of the added heat, it's causing that added tax on the system. And I think you should be training that. So.

Kevin (01:50.044)
Hmm.

Kevin (01:56.36)
You know, I've been doing a lot of sauna, you know, at home and at work and it's pretty interesting to watch. Um, the crew likes to do like an afternoon group circuit type of workout or a run or something like that, which is fun. And then, um, but if you crank that, that sauna, and so we've been trying to time it where you go right in after the sauna in the evening and, uh, damn sometimes, you know, to me, cause they, it just, that the heat will continue to elevate your heart rate.

Nole (01:58.924)
That is good, too. Yeah.

Nole (02:08.045)
Yeah.

Nole (02:20.59)
Ha

Nole (02:25.858)
Yeah.

Kevin (02:26.448)
And then you can't really like it's, it's, it's a struggle bus, but I kind of like the mental fight of it. Also knowing that that could be applicable for our job. If you're, know, you're hot and elevated heart rate and you gotta, you gotta continue to work. You're just sitting there in the sauna, but sometimes you just got to mentally grind through.

Nole (02:42.902)
Yeah, but that's so applicable, especially if you're in your turnout gear or if you're a law enforcement guy and you got your body armor and your kit on and you've gone running after a criminal or you're fighting a fire and then now it's time to recover, but it's still hot. You're still in your gear. You need to have practice in doing that so that your body can actually do it. You know, anybody in the fire service knows recovering in turnout gear after you've done some work.

is incredibly difficult because it's hot and your body can't breathe. yes, I support the sauna, though still I'm not doing it. We are in talks. We are trying to get one here for the station, but it hasn't happened yet. So I'm still not a sauna guy.

Kevin (03:17.564)
Yeah, and

Kevin (03:21.832)
Mmm.

Don't do that. Don't, everybody tries to go cheap and get the infrared, even though it's not that cheap. Don't get the infrared.

Nole (03:30.478)
I'm against the infrared just simply because it, the way, well, the way the, our, our buddy Evan Hallquist described it, he, sounded to me like it was a microwave. I don't want to be cooked from the inside out. I don't, that sounds bad. I'm not a, I'm not a hot pocket. I'm a man. Yeah. Yeah. We're, it's going to, if we, if we do it, if it happens, it'll be traditional. What do they call it? A dry sauna or? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (03:39.784)
Nobody wants that. Don't sit in the microwave. Well it doesn't even get that hot so like you want the heat you actually have.

Kevin (03:51.889)
Yeah, you gotta get original. Yeah, the traditional dry sauna, the finished dry. I think you were both and I big fans of that book, The Comfort Crisis. Was that Michael Easter? He's got a series of books. But I mean, I hate to give the synapses of the book, but he just argues that like modern life is excessively too comfortable and it's harming our physical and our mental health. that I think he just kind of throws out there with

Nole (04:06.274)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (04:21.224)
and challenge after challenge about discomfort is like the key to our wellbeing. Right. And it was, it was really, I mean, we know these things, right. But I remember when we came to my station, they were doing, which is amazing as a crew after lineup breathing in the blue chairs in the dark. It's like nine o'clock. I'm like, it's time to get outside boys. You know what mean? And so I made a big push to get them outside, to get outside and get that morning sunlight, you know?

Because I like combining the protocols of, of like getting the morning sunlight in your eye, which Dr. Huberman is huge about setting up your synchronic rhythm. And then also I feel like something about just being outside in general is better than being inside. And then it's dark and I don't know, I usually fall asleep or I just feel weird, but when outside it's almost energizing. So they complain sometimes when it's either too cold or too hot, but I'm like, Hey, but that's another way to try to acclimate a little bit.

Nole (04:52.045)
Yeah.

Nole (04:57.997)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (05:05.293)
Yeah.

Nole (05:11.47)
For sure. For sure.

Nole (05:18.764)
Yeah, and if you can, if you happen to have earth or grass and you can get your feet on that, then you're knocking out three birds with one stone. You got the breathing, you got the sun, you got contact with the earth, the grounding. mean, what could be better?

Kevin (05:25.668)
Now you're doing the grounding.

Kevin (05:32.617)
Yeah, we know we're surrounded by yours is complete opposite of mine, but mine is just this concrete wasteland. So I haven't been able to do a whole lot of ground. Have you noticed a difference with that? The only place that I feel like has a noticeable effect on my mental health and I think is on the beach where it's like immediately you can't like you can't walk on the beach with shoes or sandals or whatever. I'm like your feet are in the sand. So I'm assuming there's grounding there. I'm assuming there's grounding in the water when I'm actually in the water.

Nole (05:38.638)
Right. There's no Earth. Yeah.

Nole (05:50.624)
yeah.

Nole (05:55.937)
Mm-mm. Yeah.

Kevin (06:02.78)
I think there's something about, know, Pacific Ocean is always cold. And every time I get in the water, like it's almost like a refreshing rebirth. There's a lot to that, but I feel like that's the place mentally. I don't know if you've found that.

Nole (06:06.914)
Hmm.

Nole (06:14.316)
Yeah. Yeah. There is definitely more effectiveness or power when you're near a body of water. There's actually studies. I was talking to our friend, John Engel, who is doing a hold the line thing coming up in April, which we have to talk about at end of the episode. I've got some details on that, but he was talking about how they have done studies where they take people, they do the brain scans, they do the blood draw, look at cortisol levels and stuff, and then they put them near a body of water for

Kevin (06:27.014)
Yeah, love those guys.

Nole (06:42.542)
five, 10 minutes just next to it, a river or a lake, the ocean, and stress levels come down, the brain quiets, the cortisol levels drop, just being near the body of water. And then of course it's exponentially better if you're in the body of water. So there is also science behind the grounding and being in connection with the earth, but the body of water seems to be like amplifying. And I mean, you just know that when you go to sleep and there's a river in your backyard or you're, you know, for us, we don't live by the beach, but

Kevin (06:50.418)
Just looking at the water, not even being in it. Wow.

Hmm.

Nole (07:12.28)
you're at a hotel and you got the window open, can hear the crashing waves. People simulate that on their phones because it works, it relaxes you, it's calming. So it's definitely a thing.

Kevin (07:18.823)
Yeah.

There is something about that. I've been trying to do a little bit more meditation because we've had a stormy February or whatever that may be. And I've been getting this vision of a river and I don't know where it is. don't even think I've been there, but it's just, you have your, as the water is moving down, you just have your hand in the water and it's just kind of like going over the water. And if you can hear the water rushing over the rocks and it's a, haven't.

Nole (07:29.41)
Yeah.

Nole (07:41.004)
Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (07:47.111)
done a whole lot of visualization with meditation. Sometimes I do that because a lot of times if I'm doing it, I'm either just trying to clear my thoughts and not have any thoughts or I'm either if my mind is wandering, I'll start reciting prayer like the Lord's prayer in my head, which keeps me a little bit on track and not having to think. But recently I've been trying to just like visualize like somewhere peaceful, somewhere happy, and it's always tends to be around water.

Nole (07:50.434)
Yeah, I've never tried that. Yeah.

Nole (08:12.642)
Yeah. It's in your blood. Let's, let's actually do this right now, since we're talking about water and the benefits of being in water in nature. So as you guys know, cause we did that episode with John Engel, but if you're not aware, John and his wife, Emily found it, hold the line. And what they do is they take first responders out and they take them fly fishing. Kevin, you've been, so I should actually let you explain more of what they do. But before I let you do that, I just want to say that

Kevin (08:15.218)
in your

Kevin (08:35.464)
It's amazing.

Nole (08:40.224)
We have joined forces. are now one in the same. We're under the same umbrella. So Hold the Line is the fire up program and we're still keeping the name. It's still being run by John and Emily. It's still the same thing, but we're basically, we're basically one now we're on the same team. John helps us out at the fire program. We love both John and Emily, but if you want to go on this next trip, it is April 10th through the 12th. It is for first responders. Unlike the fire up program, you can go if you are a woman.

They take men and women, couples is great. They do have limited spots. There is no cost for this program. You get to go for free. If you are interested, we have a page on our website. will link to it in the show notes. if you go to the Fire Up Program, I'm sorry, fireupprogram.org, you'll see on the top banner, there's a hold the line. You can click on that. And there's a link to get in touch with John directly, talk to him about specifics, get your questions.

Kevin (09:10.322)
Couple, yeah.

Nole (09:37.107)
asked or answered and then you can get signed up. So just give us a rundown real quick of your experience out there.

Kevin (09:42.727)
Yeah, he's amazing. I'm so wildly impressed by just John and Emily and their, their ministry, their passion is combined. What was very helpful through him in a very stressful time and very, he was getting over a lot of things and he's naturally like an outdoorsman and a hunter and a fisher and things like that. Fisherman. I am not, but when I got up there, it's just such a cool thing. It's up on the Kern. You're actually tent camping right by the water.

And John and Emily provide all the food and do all the cooking, which is amazing. But it was, was really cool on a human connection level. You go to this really professional fly shop up there, which is that area is really known for fly fishing and that river specifically. And John has built relationships with these amazing people who do this for a living and they donate all the gear. We came up with nothing but a tent. We came up with nothing.

And you go into the shop and they give you all the gear. And so the waiters, the boots, those five, I mean, all the stuff. And it would be one thing for you to like get that stuff, but I still don't know what I would be doing with it. Right. And so they help you gear it all up and rig it all up and see what's going on. And, so I was wildly impressed with the people because they, and they were just great people. They're not first responders or professional fishermen, you know, and they tag along with you and kind of get you started and get you an idea of what to do.

And then you're literally standing in a river and it's immediately effective, like immediately, because I'm off that stupid phone. There's no computer. There's no email. I don't have like headphones in. And you talk about this a lot. Like we're surrounded by noise. And like to not have any noise and just the actual, the, the noise of nature where this water is running. And I don't know if you ever fly fish, no, but it's very,

Nole (11:22.722)
Hmm.

Kevin (11:33.563)
It's different than boat fishing or whatever where you throw you throw the fly up river and let it float down and try to have it get into these little pockets where these fish are the rainbow trout and whatnot and they take it up and when you're done you scoop it up throw it up let it float down and so it's insanely meditative because you're watching this thing float back and forth over and over and over again and you're just kind of there and you just I lost track of time I was trying to

Nole (11:52.195)
Yeah.

Kevin (12:02.31)
You know what mean? It was really fun to try to learn a new skill and learn a new thing. And then more than anything, it's just the people and he surrounded himself. John and Emily are amazing and the people that he surrounded himself with that help you go. The guides that take you out are really incredible and that's what I was really blown away at that they would be willing to donate their gear, their time, their effort for you. And my wife was able to come with me and it was just really fun. And after like an hour or two, she's like, I just want to sit in the river and she did.

And so, and that was her happy place, you know, so, but it was a great connection point for us. And then it was great connecting with a bunch of people from all over the place. And then sharing around the campfire at night is always super powerful. So I mean, I highly suggest and I am definitely going to go back when I can.

Nole (12:50.978)
Yeah, I cannot definitively say that we're going to be there, but Heather and I are trying to make this trip. got some other things going on. We actually have a lot going on the next couple of months, but we are trying to make it. So as soon as I know for sure, I'll let you guys know. But regardless of whether or not we're there, you should go. So go to our website, fireprogram.org, click on, hold the line on the top. It'll show you how to get in touch with John and go from there.

Kevin (12:56.497)
awesome.

Kevin (13:04.432)
Yeah.

Kevin (13:14.554)
And to go for free is just amazing. think it's so what that takes is just incredible. So I mean, you can't not do it. Yeah. And I'm really excited for some of our guys, especially our guys that have married. We make a big focus on the fire program on the marriage. And I think it would be a really neat thing for them to do that together. So hey, if there's any program guys out there, go.

Nole (13:38.316)
Yeah, you'll love it. Good stuff.

Kevin (13:42.537)
We had Jason Lloyd who is a program guy had his 40th birthday last night and I don't know if you remember the viral video of sexy sax man Sergio Flores Who doesn't where he plays that famous hook from the George Michael song? Somehow I reached out and He still provides saxograms and I got the Sergio Flores to

Nole (13:55.562)
I do. I do. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. In the middle of the ball or something.

Kevin (14:12.614)
play a saxogram at Jason's party and he was everything you'd ever want it to be. It was fantastic and was so funny. He had a random group of like friends from back in the day, some work friends, you know, people from a church and whatnot. And they thought it was an impersonator impersonating Sergio Flores, sexy sax man. I'm like, no, that's him. It is really funny. There was this lady that came up to me. She's like, that's the most famous person I've ever seen in real life. That's incredible.

Nole (14:17.675)
No way.

Nole (14:25.294)
man.

Nole (14:31.596)
No, it's the guy. You got the real guy.

Nole (14:42.254)
Dude, I'm really sad that I wasn't involved in that. That's amazing.

Kevin (14:43.876)
That was incredible.

Kevin (14:47.972)
It was really fun. And Jason, is I was thinking about this. I like dynamic, complicated people. He's a brown belt and jujitsu firefighter, a total badass, but also a raving nerd and loves like Lord of the Rings and all things, Dungeons and Dragons or whatever, you know. And so our real good friend Mark Gillen decided that Nessa, myself and I were going to show up to his party as the Lord of the Rings guys. So was Gandalf the

Nole (14:55.582)
Mm. Yeah. Right. Yeah.

Nole (15:03.916)
Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (15:15.939)
God.

Kevin (15:17.42)
one of the elves and then another guy, you know, and it was so funny and there's a video of it of his reaction when we showed up and we were should though not, you know, eat more tacos or we said something stupid and it was absolutely classic because he was like, yeah, I he was just floored by the costumes that we showed up in and then he immediately ran upstairs, Noel and had just just randomly had a hobbit outfit by himself. Of course he did.

Nole (15:18.734)
you

Nole (15:29.313)
you

Nole (15:39.093)
Of course, of course. So he joined in the fun. Oh, dude.

Kevin (15:43.465)
and he got dressed in his hobbit outfit and wear that the rest of the day, which was just hilarious. But it made me think like costume parties are fun. Like getting dressed up for something. I don't often like to like get in a suit or something, but I was like, it's kind of fun to create. I don't know what cowboy theme or something. And I'm like the next party or some get together. I don't care what it is. I'm going to put it like a costume theme to it because it was stupid fun.

Nole (15:52.344)
Yeah.

Nole (15:57.28)
Right.

Nole (16:08.664)
That is fun. I love that. I'm gonna have to see some photos or video of that. That's hilarious. That's funny.

Kevin (16:12.38)
Yeah, I'll send it to you. It was pretty great. But my segue to this, the longest segue, this is a Trump segue. It was that the vibe that we came in, the vibe, the weave was strong, because the vibe that we came in with, it changed the vibe of the party for sure. When we came in and these things, and then he ran upstairs, it was contagious. And then before you knew it, when Sexy Sax Man Pat came in, and then it was just like.

Nole (16:19.646)
Mmm. Doing the weave.

Nole (16:29.767)
yeah.

Nole (16:33.633)
Yes, yes.

Kevin (16:40.432)
It was super fun and we were just in the backyard of my buddy's house with his kids. But we had a quick talk about you or me or yourself being contagious. And I wanted to see if you would touch base on that. Cause I thought it was an interesting concept.

Nole (16:41.942)
Certainly that becomes fun.

Nole (16:56.556)
Yeah, actually this came up in my mind and I wrote it down in my podcast ideas list because of a couple of reasons, but I'll start with the most recent one. I was having a conversation with our two oldest kids and we were talking about a lot of different things, but something that came up was...

I just had this need, I'm trying to say this in a way that doesn't get me in trouble, but just the idea that for them, 1921, the way that they behave around Indy, 10, right, who looks up to them, it just, they're everything to him. And so the way that they choose to behave or respond to things is how he's going to behave and respond to things.

Because to him, they're just these amazing adults. They're his brother and sister. know, he, he's in the unfortunate realm of having essentially four parents in the house. He's constantly getting told what to do and what not to do, but just relaying to them to remember that. However they respond, whether it's to their mom asking them to do a chore or to something negative or positive that happens in life, he's going to, he is watching that and taking that in and he's going to emulate it.

right there in the moment and then he's going to carry that on forward in his life. That's going to be part of defining who he is as a person, as a man, as he grows up. And that responsibility, I want to be clear, it obviously doesn't just fall on them as the older siblings, it falls on me. It falls on Heather as well and more so obviously because we're mom and dad. But yeah, just that idea that it's really important to remember that there are always people

around you, watching you, just like at that party who are affected by what you do. And that can be a really positive thing, like in the context of that party. If I'm at a party, I need you to be there because I can't fire up the party like that. That's not in my DNA. So I need I need you there to do that for me. Right. And so recognizing that. And there's work context, too, but I'll leave it there for

Kevin (19:04.784)
No, but I think that's probably one of the most important lessons I learned early on with the kids, especially when they were younger, is that your vibe is their vibe very soon. And if like, if I notice that the wife is stressed, the kids are stressed. If I notice that I put on tunes and start being goofy and start dancing around, they immediately stop whatever they're doing and start being goofy and start dancing around. And I think that's just an innate natural thing. Like they're gonna emulate and be whatever you is.

Nole (19:15.95)
you

Kevin (19:34.225)
man, I have to be very conscious of that. I have to kind of take stock of my mood before I walk in that door and either turn my hat around backwards and say, this is, have a small window. Now your kids are homeschooled and mine are different, but I look at it as like, I have this small like hour and a half, two hour window in the morning. And I have this small four to six hour window in that in the afternoon when they come home from school and they go to bed, I better maximize that and give them something that they could.

That's contagiously positive, right? And dude, I fail at this all the time because there's some days I come home and I'm just tired, right? And I'm just kind of grumpy and I can't really shake that, But I do try to make it a point to be like, okay, if I'm gonna be the person that to emulate, right? I'm conscious of that. Like I wanna make it positive and it doesn't have to be Disneyland every day, but I'm just definitely making sure that, and as they get older, man.

They'll call me out if I'm on my phone too much or if I'm, you know what mean, or if I'm not. If they say you want to go kick the ball outside and they say no, like there's something wrong.

Nole (20:33.494)
Yeah.

Nole (20:42.946)
Yeah, yeah, Yeah, and it's not just with the kids, right? It happens at work too. And you don't necessarily have to be the captain or the straw boss, the engineer, in order to affect the crew and their mood and how they're handling stuff. You can do it from the fireman ranks too. And we've all been on scene when somebody's tired or they're burned out and they're treating one of our patients, a regular, somebody that we see all the time in a way that...

doesn't meet the standard, right? It's less than the standard. It's either rude or just, you know, whatever. It's not the normal standard of patient care that we give. And that can also be a contagious thing. And it's easy to fall into that, especially, I think especially if you've been on for a little while and...

Nole (21:34.381)
maybe you're just not thinking about it, right? If it becomes the norm, especially if you're on a crew where you're just kind of grumpy all the time, which is the thing, right? Guys are busy, they get tired, they do too many calls, too much stuff off duty, know, that type of thing. But that can also be a realm where you're contagious, right? The way that you're handling it can bleed out into the rest of the crew. And of course, then the flip side of that is also true, right? When you come in and that's happening, if you do the opposite,

and treat that person the way that you should treat them like they were your own mom, grandma, whatever, then that can also influence what the crew does.

Kevin (22:14.248)
Yep. And here's the thing. I'm just going to say it. It had you got to put on music in the morning at the fire station. Like I've gone in those stations and nobody has anything going on in the morning. And just like, oh, did somebody die? Like what's going on? It's like. And I noticed, like, I think this is the fireman's job. Like maybe if you're not going to do this on probation, but I think this is the fireman's job is to set the tone. We have to do all the equipment, check out and fire up all the saws and do all the things. Well, it's as much for me.

Nole (22:21.174)
Yeah.

Nole (22:28.726)
is all bummed out.

Kevin (22:43.718)
As I come in, had a long drive, I waked up a little too early and it's seven o'clock, I'm putting on some pop punk or we're getting it started, right? And watch, watch what happens. It's just as much for me. That puts me in a better mood. I start walking around with purpose and then you'll hear guys like, the needle on my rig. They start singing along and then everyone's in a better mood. I'll miss immediately. And for me, music changes the vibe immediately. And I think

Nole (23:02.722)
Yeah.

Nole (23:09.442)
for sure.

Kevin (23:10.598)
I think if you're at a fire station, even if it's a three man house, whatever, put some tunes on for yourself. There's this funny story. remember Noel is great on putting on like Christmas time music, Christmas, whatever. And for whatever reason you had oldies on and it was like the fifties oldies. And we were working with the tough guy, a certified tough guy captain who's not going to dance. And Noel starts putting on the song, the twist comes on. Come on, baby, let's do the twist.

Nole (23:30.934)
Yes.

Nole (23:35.788)
The Twist.

Kevin (23:39.337)
Come on, babe. And so Noel starts twisting, which is pretty funny because how often do you see an army ranger doing the twist? And then I start doing the twist and then our engineer, Michael Kenobi, starts doing the twist and the captain who's super tough comes over and we all start encouraging him like, no, you can't talk to us. He started talking to us about something serious. And we're like, no, you got to do. We're doing the twist right now. You got, you got to do the twist. And somehow we conned him into doing the twist and he was still talking about fire things while doing the twist. And we,

Nole (23:41.358)
Pretty good.

Nole (23:59.512)
It's twist time.

Kevin (24:08.258)
I like fell on the floor laughing. It was so funny.

Nole (24:10.742)
One of the best moments ever. It was so good. The music you choose is very important. A station that shall remain unnamed that I used to work at on Overtimes quite frequently. Every time you went into that station, they would have music on, right? So they got that box checked. The problem was that it was the most horrible rap you can imagine. And that takes the mood into a different place that I think is negative and bad. When I first got hired,

Kevin (24:27.976)
horrible rap.

Nole (24:39.298)
During my first six months on the job, was working at, thirties in Cerritos and the engineer on my shift, Kevin Fry, he's now retired, but he would play music. He was the music guy and it was, he was adamant. It was like, it was his thing or nobody else could do it. And I, I loved it because he would put on like the dropkick Murphy's or flogging Molly. He was big into that type of music. the real McKinsey's that type of, you know, I don't know what you would call that, but you know what I'm talking about. It's great.

Kevin (24:54.855)
He's the guy.

Kevin (25:06.034)
Yeah.

Nole (25:08.576)
Sets a really good tone for the day. And I remember thinking, I can't wait until I'm at a station and I've been around long enough that I can be the music guy. So I love that point. I think that's a great point. And I currently work at a station where my engineer, he puts on music and he makes, he makes different choices than I would make, but they're good. It's like good music. It's positive. It's a, it sets a nice tone for the day. And that's his role when he's not working and I got an overtime or then, then I take over and I play music, but yeah, dude, that's a great point. Not something I'd really thought through, but.

Kevin (25:18.056)
Mmm.

Kevin (25:25.853)
Hmm.

Kevin (25:39.049)
And dude, it's part of my life though. People know that I have like a little Bluetooth speaker with me at all times. Like they just know that, right? And so like wherever we'll be at, like I'll just, you know, throw on some music. Now I'm a music guy. like music, but it doesn't matter. And I don't play, you know, pop punk all the time. It's whatever it is. We're going to Christian music or if it's whatever. My daughters want to listen to some Taylor Swift, whatever I'll put it on. You know what I mean? But I think it's fun.

Nole (25:39.16)
Solid.

Nole (25:45.08)
Yeah, Yeah.

Kevin (26:05.736)
And it's one of those things that people know now, like, you got your thing on you? And I'm like, yeah, let's go. Of course I got it on me. You know what mean? So, um, but, you know, there's those times that, um, we're talking about faking it till you make it that like, yeah, I mean, sometimes I need that. need somebody. I need somebody else. Right. And so it's weird when you're not the guy or you're normally the guy that's always the one trying to be happy when you're not the guy.

Nole (26:09.73)
Yeah. You're gonna play some music for us. I love it.

Kevin (26:35.43)
Like that's where I think just having good friends that know you to be like, Hey, what's up? I'm like, I don't know. I don't really want to talk about it right now, but whatever, but yeah, let's figure it out. And then they'll put on something and then we'll go from there. like, but yeah, I think, but you can also be that guy. didn't like you'll notice if somebody is not right. You know, and I think that's why it's fun to play like team sports or put on music is that when you see somebody that's not really into it, they normally are.

Nole (26:39.66)
Yeah. Yeah. Where's the tunes this morning? What are you doing?

Nole (26:58.125)
Hmm.

Kevin (27:02.908)
Maybe that's somewhere to touch base with them later in the day. I'll just put it in my pocket. Be like, try to see, grab them on the side and see what's up.

Nole (27:10.156)
Yeah.

Yeah. And of course the other realm in our line of work where you can have a huge influence on the way other people are responding is on an actual life or death emergency, whether that's a fire or a full arrest. If you act and are, although sometimes it is an act, calm, cool, collected, like a professional, that spreads, it's contagious. And it's probably, I think, more contagious if you're spun out. And we've all seen those scenes where

somebody's stress, somebody's elevated, they maybe sprinted to the rig, maybe their voice is a little bit too loud for the scene, whatever, and they're moving faster than their level of skills really would allow, and just, everything starts to deteriorate, and that's really contagious. And you can watch scenes kind of spin out of control when people are doing that. So that would be a really important time as a fireman, or even in law enforcement or the military, where keeping that cool head,

taking a moment to pause, being in control of yourself, even if everything around you is falling apart and you don't know what to do. That's one of those places where I really strongly believe in that fake it till you make it thing, right? Because A, the perception of the people that are involved on the other side, the people that called 911 who are having the emergency, that's really important, how you present what you're doing. And the reality is, is that we will figure it out, right? Even if in the moment you don't know what to do, we will figure it out because no one is coming. It's up to us. But

Kevin (28:22.866)
Yeah.

Kevin (28:41.384)
It's up to us. And you know where that contagiousness goes in? It's like just, I'm surrounded by professionals in my station. The guys that really like take their job seriously, but they don't have to be serious all the time. And they train, right? And so they all have the attitude of like, we never know enough and we always have to train and it's just part of our day. And I remember at another station that you and I were both at, sometimes it was a chore. seemed like a chore because we're like, we have to do the same thing over. We have to lead it. It's the same thing for the same.

Nole (28:48.664)
Hmm.

Nole (29:01.325)
Yeah.

Kevin (29:11.208)
Whatever and these guys I'm like, oh, I don't know that. Oh, I don't yes, let's go over that Oh, I haven't done that in a while and that is contagious because I'm like, oh, I'm not who I've been on a while But I don't know anything. I don't know as much as this guy this guy knows way more than I do Let's go over and it's cool. That's contagious the the feeling of like Not being so comfortable and you're just I don't know what that word is You're just content or whatever But I think it's fun when you surround yourself with good people who are better than you

that want to learn and want to teach that makes me want to do the same. And I'm like, I'm looking forward to it. know like, Hey, what are we doing today?

Nole (29:47.853)
Yeah, and that kind of environment creates a space where that type of learning is not only expected, but it's acceptable. It's acceptable to go. I, I don't know how to do that, or I haven't done that in years. Kit, yeah, can you run me through that? And to be able to admit like, I don't know that because the reality is on any given day, there's a ton of stuff about this job that everyone in the station doesn't know. Myself included more than most. And so having an environment like that where you're not just

checking the box and kind of doing the monthly training that we do every month at this time of the year. But those things are good and important, but there's so much more to be done that environments like that are, well, they're really the best.

Kevin (30:31.56)
Yeah, so it's a good reminder, both at work and at home, home specifically with children. Like I gotta be conscious that they're they are aware they are watching and emulating you on a daily basis. Right. And I think at work you can affect positive change. You can put on music, have a good attitude, do some training. And I think that's contagious. And I think those are all good things.

Nole (30:53.89)
Yeah, I heard something once a long, long time ago and I think this is just one of those truisms, but I'm sure someone at some point actually said it, but can't quote them directly because I don't know what it is. But just this idea that if you see something in someone else that really bothers you, it's probably something that you do and you're not aware of it. It's probably a flaw that you have. And since I've learned that, yeah, exactly. And since I've

Kevin (31:12.84)
Yeah, it's 100%. This guy noise the hell out of me.

Nole (31:19.38)
learned that and then especially really especially here on this job because we live with guys for 24 plus hours at a time you will find guys that annoy you in some way and every time I stop and go wait a minute is this bothering me because this is something that I do and then it's not always the case but when it is the case that can give you that moment of clarity of like okay well then why is it bothering me do I need to correct it you know what's going on here takes the focus off this guy's messed up too hold on Noel's messed up

Kevin (31:47.762)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (31:48.098)
What does Noel need to do different? Which I kind of hate, but I also love because what are we trying to do? We're trying to better ourself on a daily basis.

Kevin (31:56.563)
But good luck on the marital side, because my wife will be like, you're breathing too loud. And I'm like, what? And she's irritated, and I'm just sitting there. That's a different letter than I should like. I don't know what's that about. And it's just the whole thing.

Nole (32:03.278)
That's a different category entirely.

dude, I love it. I love it.

Kevin (32:13.252)
I'll just tell you this. She doesn't listen to podcasts. Christ says I found myself being very irritated because, okay, I don't know if you guys have a wife, but my wife is the trapper keeper. She's got the big purse. So when we go places, I'm like, I dumped off. I got the wallet, the chapstick, the phone, me possibly as in can, you know, she gets she takes the kid. So whenever we're coming back, you you lock your car and you walk back. Never in 20 something years that I

Nole (32:30.284)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, the essentials.

Kevin (32:42.694)
Has she ever anticipated that we would have to unlock the door? And it's always a surprise, dude. It's always a surprise that when we get to the door, it's locked. And then I'm like, it drives me bananas. It drives me bananas, but it's.

Nole (32:46.702)
you

Nole (32:58.51)
Well, in a woman's purse is a mystery. It's like that bag from Mary Poppins where you can just like keep pulling stuff out and you're like, how did you fit that in there? And you got to, I mean, there's a lot of rooting around that has to happen before you can locate anything. It doesn't matter how big or how small it is. That's a mission. And that's not a realm that I'll delve into. I'm not going in there. So I'm going to wait. Not patiently. I'm not going to say I'm patient.

Kevin (33:04.402)
Right. It's just a magician's bag, yeah.

Kevin (33:18.364)
No, no, and she's just like, you put the keys in here. You put your keys in here. Why don't you? I'm like, yeah. then I'm just, but we had like a 400 yard walk to the car. Like at some point I'd be like, I'm going to get my keys out and press the button. Bless their hearts. It's not a nervous.

Nole (33:23.916)
Right. I'm not going in there.

Nole (33:29.742)
you

.

Yeah. No, they're not designed that way, which is why they need us. That's why God created us. We have to help them. They need help. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah.

Kevin (33:40.324)
No, we're prepared to unlock the door.

Dude, so we're I feel like we're coming out of this fog. You know what I mean? Like and it's still a grind. Like even trying to record has been a tough thing. I mean, it seems like I haven't caught up with anything. I got piles and there's papers and there's all kinds of things that I haven't addressed because we got out in whatever it was in late January and it seemed like we got ambushed, dude. Like, boom, life is a we talk about this at the program. We're kind of in this Shangri-La or like away from work, away from

Nole (34:06.178)
Yeah.

Nole (34:13.358)
Yeah.

Kevin (34:14.514)
And have these rad experiences with unbelievable dudes and it's very euphoric. And then you get come come down and just the world hits it, you know, and I expect that, but this one was different where it was just like, like four or five major things going on at once. And it was overwhelming. And it was just seemed like the world or whatever, you're just getting ambushed. And I don't think I was necessarily prepared, you know, and I know you talk about this without having like SOPs and being prepared in life. And I want to see if you have some thoughts on this.

Nole (34:43.598)
Yeah, this is actually something that I used to talk about at the program, but I removed for the sake of time. But as you were talking about that, this it's just reminded me and I did just look it up. I do have this verse memorized, but like every other verse I have memorized, I don't ever know the reference. John 16, 33 says, I have told you these things so that in me you may have peace. And this is the part right here. In this world, you will have trouble or tribulation.

Kevin (35:13.275)
You will.

Nole (35:13.538)
but take heart, take heart, I've overcome the world. So the last half of that verse is very encouraging, but the previous, yeah, you just nailed it, right? You will have trouble. And yeah, you just came out of a really rough season. I did too in a different way. so that the idea, the principle that you're talking about that I used to talk about at the program is just this idea that...

And we'll talk about it in the military context, right? You just use the word ambush. You're going to get ambushed. Something is going to happen today, tomorrow, next week. And it's going to be difficult. It's going be something hard to deal with. It's going to be unexpected. It's going to come out of nowhere and

If you're in an ambush in the real world, if you're in the military, one of the first things they teach you is that you have to have a plan for how you're going to deal with getting ambushed, right? You can't figure that out at that moment while the guys on the hillside are shooting down at you and you're in a bad position. That's not the time to figure it out, right? By that point, it's too late. So you have to have a plan going in. And we've talked about this before, where when we find ourselves in the doldrums of life where things are just kind of not going great, if you start looking at your priorities,

You're probably not in the word. You're probably not sleeping right. You're probably not working out. Maybe you're not doing your breathing. Like whatever, there's things that you're starting to miss. So for me, that would be like part of the plan of, coming out of that. And I just, I just did a month in February of being sick and just brain fog and just not doing great. And guess what I didn't do? I didn't execute the plan. You know, I went into it and I just, I just got stuck.

Kevin (36:27.602)
Hmm.

Kevin (36:46.702)
any of the things.

Nole (36:55.084)
And I didn't execute the plan. stayed, you know, in what we call, you know, the fatal funnel. And I just stayed there and guess what happened? I, I continued to struggle and suffer until I realized, well, I have to do something. Right. And part of that plan has to be, you have to move, right? You have to change your position exactly. Because if you're getting ambushed, whether it's by just the vicissitudes of life or some, something is actually coming after you.

Kevin (37:14.632)
Get off the X.

Nole (37:24.76)
They chose that spot to hit you for a reason, because you're vulnerable there. And so if you stay there and you stay in that spot, what's going to happen? Eventually, whatever it is, it's going to tear you down. It's going to defeat you.

Kevin (37:42.747)
Yeah, I think our dear friend, Jeremy Stalnacka, we've had on multiple times CEO of Mighty Oaks and he's written a number of books, but his whole podcast is March or Die. And it makes me immediately think of his concept and he uses it. Obviously he was in the Marine Corps and he led guys and he has an amazing story of them crossing this bridge and that exact thing happened. And he realized that they needed to get off the X and they were going to die if they didn't move. And it's a metaphor for his own life though. It's like,

Nole (37:47.234)
yeah.

Nole (37:52.982)
Yes.

Kevin (38:11.9)
feel like when we are stagnant and we are stuck, we've got to do something different. And this is one of my favorite questions in life. When I have somebody or myself, Noel, where I'm like, when I somebody is struggling with something, maybe it's addiction, maybe it's whatever marital issues. And they tell me about what they've done so far, and they keep doing the same thing over again. My question

is like if what you're doing is not working, like why not try something else? Right? Right? And if what you're doing is not working and I've had to ask that to myself, I'm like, is this working? No. Okay. Then get off the X. Let's do something different. And I don't know what that is, but almost anything is going to be better than what I've done up to this.

Nole (39:00.77)
Yeah. Yeah. And it's like so many other things in life. It's in hindsight, when you look back at it, you know, when I look back at this last month or any other time that I've gotten stuck or just beat down by life or whatever, when you look back at it in hindsight, you go, well, yeah, of course I should have been doing this. I should have been doing that. I should have done this. But in the moment, when you're in that space, it can be overwhelming. It can be depressing, you know, depending on what you're dealing with, it can be a lot of different things. And that just goes back to reinforcing

You need to have a plan and you don't know what life is going to throw at you, but you do know that it's going to be trouble, right? It might be a family we're passing away. It might be losing your job. might be a physical injury, anything. You guys know the list. You've been through all of them. So what are you going to do? What's your basic plan? And you're going to have to adjust, right? That you can't have one plan that's going to work for everything, but you should have some basics, some non-negotiables that you fall back on when things start to go bad. And ideally a lot of those things.

are things that we should be doing on a daily basis, Being in the Word, meditating, getting good sleep, those types of things. You should be doing them all the time anyway, but chances are...

When things start to get bad, you're probably not. So you got to have a plan. Maybe even write a physical list down to remind yourself. I don't have that, but it be a good idea.

Kevin (40:15.517)
Yeah.

Kevin (40:19.788)
I mean, this is exactly what happened to me. I think I make it a point to be there for friends when needed and I had two dear friends that had two significant things go on and I immediately went there and then I realized that I was doing that and then trying to do normal life and trying to be the dad and trying to be and all that and the thing that broke was me like I got sick I was you know and like it's a tough concept to say when to say no it's easy to say no when somebody says hey do you guys want to go to Europe in three weeks you know I'm like

Nole (40:38.926)
Yeah.

Kevin (40:49.446)
no, we can't afford it. And you hear like Tim Ferriss and all these different people, they set up their life of like 99 % of the time, it's a no. But those ones, that's non-negotiable. One of my closest friends is, I'm going to the hospital, but I have to realize that there's a cost somewhere and then I have to shuffle things around in my personal life so that I can come back and retreat to the cave. Maybe that means I have to take the next day off instead of rush right back to work.

Nole (41:19.32)
Right.

Kevin (41:19.824)
and get smashed at work because I'm not sleeping again. I'm like, if I'm going to do that and make that sacrifice, well, I have to do something for me on the back end. And I learned that through this because I'm like, yes, I was there. I was glad I was there. I would never change anything about it. But maybe I would ask for a trade or take another day a day is off. Well, I'm not trying to spin all the plates at the same time. Eventually they all came down and then I'm not helpful to anybody. I'm not doing anything. And so.

Nole (41:41.164)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (41:47.1)
Why not? Why, if I have the time, like, yes, go help a friend, but take the next day off so you're not, you know, going from 10 o'clock in one place and then waking up before the next and then going, you know, if that makes sense.

Nole (41:57.571)
Yeah, yeah, totally. It's too much. Right. And it catches up with you no matter how good or dialed or awesome you are. Hey, I'm going to just totally derail this thing right now. But do you have any awareness of Little House on the Prairie? You ever heard of this? Right. It was a show back in the seventies. It's based on a book, right? That I, I read the book when I was a kid and I think we might've watched the show a little bit, but without going too deep into detail. Indie.

Kevin (42:12.966)
Yeah, it's great show.

Kevin (42:17.789)
Michael.

Nole (42:26.05)
That's kind of his show that we're watching with him right now, which it's a great show sidebar. There's like 10 seasons and they have 50 something episodes per season. You we're going to be able to watch this show until he's 18 years old. There's a crazy amount of episodes and there's a great little life lessons in there. It's actually really good, but I was. Every episode is a new strife. I was laughing because last night I was home and we were watching and.

Kevin (42:28.392)
cool, Ellie liked it too, yeah.

Kevin (42:40.198)
Yeah, Ali's burning. And there's nothing but strife, dude.

Nole (42:53.698)
I'm just going to really quickly summarize the storyline, but essentially that episode, I don't remember how many episodes ago it was, we were talking about just this idea that we do these things at memorials where we share our thoughts about people who are no longer there. Right. And we were talking about trying to figure out a way to do that before these people had passed. And how would you do that? This episode was about that. It was about an elderly lady in her eighties. She's a widow.

Kevin (43:09.553)
Yes.

Kevin (43:18.022)
Wow.

Nole (43:21.89)
Her friend who's also a widow passes away. So she realizes I'm at the close to end of my life. I haven't seen my family, my kids in years. They won't come to visit me because they're too busy. So she basically fakes her own death so that they will come to her funeral because in the episode she talks about how, you know, you can make an excuse for not coming to visit for a birthday or anything else, but nobody misses a funeral, right? Everyone comes to the funeral. So she stages this whole thing. The kids come, her kids and...

Kevin (43:33.928)
Ha ha

Nole (43:48.719)
There's people that are in on it and there's all this drama. And then in the end, she reveals that she's still alive. And of course it ends happy and no one freaks out. But, but I laughed because I was like, this is exactly what we were just talking about. This is on this show in the seventies, which I thought was hilarious. But, but yeah, it's just back to that. Go ahead. No.

Kevin (43:57.576)
That's hilarious.

Kevin (44:04.892)
Have you ever been to an Irish wake? They're fantastic. I have some older family members that are all from Ireland and that side was all Irish. had the Irish wake was just hilarious because it was if you know the Irish, they're orators, poems, storytellers, song. And that's what it is. It's like a celebration that he has gone to heaven. And it's like song, dance, poem, stories, you name it. And it's it's amazing.

Nole (44:21.634)
Yeah, right.

Nole (44:31.384)
Yeah.

Kevin (44:32.486)
I always thought like after we were talking about that, yeah, I'd like to host my own Irish wake before I bring everybody in and it's none. And it was like, it's a celebration, you know, and it's like celebratory and everyone's in a great mood. You know, the Irish.

Nole (44:37.39)
Yeah, that's what this lady did. She hosted her own wake. Yeah.

Nole (44:46.392)
Yeah, of course, the Irish. Anyway, I totally derailed the episode, but I thought that was funny.

Kevin (44:49.362)
But we know, no, I love it. My daughter started watching that too, because you can, I don't know what platform it is on streaming, you can prime. Yeah. She's been burning through it and it's been really cool. Yeah. And, but we know, we know these verses like you're in John 16 and we know that like, count it all when trouble counted all joy brothers, you know, when troubles of any kind come your way and consider an opportunity for great joy, you know, like I, I,

Nole (44:56.544)
Amazon Prime. Included. Yeah.

Nole (45:10.168)
Hmm.

Kevin (45:18.536)
I struggle that I'm not there when it hits. You know, I don't like haha. This is a great time for opportunity. Let's like no, I don't. I don't react that way, you know, and I'm like when does that happen?

Nole (45:21.485)
Yeah.

Nole (45:27.596)
It's an opportunity.

Nole (45:35.51)
I do not know the answer to that. I don't know how to do that. I don't.

Kevin (45:41.917)
Yeah, I think maybe age and wisdom and experience, but but I do know that I'm not as fearful as when something like I've watched recently a family member got some who is a non-believer get some bad diagnoses and it's just like, what do I do? Like very freaking out. And I have said, like, I feel like the challenges I think are we've been through enough of them that I'm not considering it joyful, but I'm just like, whatever, bring it on. It's the next hurdle.

Nole (45:55.246)
Hmm.

Kevin (46:11.674)
It's the next thing. Whatever. We got to get dirty. We got to go do something. All right, let's go, you know.

Nole (46:16.994)
Yeah. I was thinking about that in a different context recently. I was listening to some people talk about just all the stuff that's going on in the world, right? The stuff in Iran or Ukraine and Russia, know, the Epstein list. There's all this stuff, right? Just like always, but there's this stuff and there was this group of people that was talking about all that and it was kind of a doom and gloom conversation, right? Which regarding those things, it's understandable, but

Kevin (46:29.17)
Right.

Nole (46:45.696)
I had also been listening to a sermon recently and the guy was talking about just this idea that if you're a believer, you know that the end of the story is the good guys win, right? It's already done. It's written. It's going to happen. And there's a lot of stuff that's going to happen in between then and now, right? Now who knows how much longer we have.

Kevin (47:02.002)
Good guys win.

Nole (47:14.446)
could be thousands of years, could be two days, nobody knows. But in between now and then, there's gonna be a lot of stuff that's gonna go wrong, right, from our perspective. That's gonna be horrible and awful. But maybe that's partially where counting it all joy comes from. And back to your perspective, where you've seen some things and it's not necessarily the end of the world because you know we're gonna get through this because you've been through stuff. Maybe there's an aspect of that too. And just adjusting your perspective a little bit to know that.

Kevin (47:28.423)
Hmm.

Nole (47:42.863)
Yeah, this season of life might be terrible and it may not turn out the way I want. In fact, it's probably not going to turn out the way I would choose, but it's going to be all right. And in the end, in the end, as believers, we know that not only is it going to be all right, but it's going to be better than all right. And maybe that can help kind of carry you through.

Kevin (48:01.928)
Yeah.

Kevin (48:05.574)
Yeah, did you watch that Sean Ryan with the exorcism priest?

Nole (48:11.754)
I watched the portion that Todd Bradstreet, or no, that wasn't Todd Bradstreet, was John Ingleson is that, right?

Kevin (48:17.426)
him. I went back and listened to the whole thing on a couple of drives, which is it was and I had I had multiple hour and a half drives that I listened to it on. So but it was a fascinating thing where he was talking about, you know, like these spiritual battles and you and I have both felt when there's like a spirit of oppression or we're getting attacked, right? And there's something that's going on here.

Nole (48:20.652)
Yeah, I only listened to the part that he said, start here, because it was like three hours long, but I listened to the tail end of it.

Kevin (48:44.902)
And he addressed that when he knows like, and he started saying symptoms of how that looks, you know, but he also was bringing up that he's like, God doesn't that's part of the realm of his world. Like he allows this. He allows this. This is part of, and it's a crazy concept to think, cause we've always struggled with why do people get cancer or why do this? But are you talking about on a spiritual level, why a demon, he would allow a demon in your world or something like that.

Nole (48:49.581)
Hmm.

Nole (48:59.651)
Yeah.

Nole (49:14.018)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (49:14.97)
It's pretty wild. But once again, it was just kind of a reminder of like, yeah, I'm not in control of anything. And there's ways that I can guard myself. I can put on the spiritual armor, right? I'm like, can guard myself. And I feel like for me, I know, I think one of the most important things for me in my life is to know where I'm weak. Like I know where there's a crack in the hole of my armor underneath my armpits is alcohol.

Nole (49:21.976)
Yeah.

Kevin (49:42.919)
And there's another one on this side that's pornography. And there's another one, like, I know where I'm spiritually weak and that I think those are the cracks where the devil or the demon can get in if I'm not spiritually sound, you know? And I feel like I need to tape those up. I need to put more armor on. Like I need to focus on those where I know I'm weak. I don't know if you know, I think it's important to know where you're weak. What are your weaknesses and how you can shore those up.

Nole (50:07.31)
for

Yeah, dude, knowing your weaknesses is huge and just like everything else, I take it back to a fitness example, but that was one of the great things about the early days of CrossFit and it being so random is that on any given day you would be exposed. You would do the workout of the day and you would realize, I can't do handstand pushups or I can't do double lunges or whatever. And then there's a weakness and now it's time to attack that and learn that. And for sure in your real life, obviously it's even more important to know those things.

Kevin (50:20.306)
Hmm.

Kevin (50:29.031)
Right.

Nole (50:39.072)
and to attack them, to figure out how to deal with them. But that is a fascinating concept, and I did hear him talk about that. But it's fascinating to look at that type of thing and recognize that, you know, X, Y, or Z horrible thing happens in your life, whether that's some form of demonic oppression or whatever else, but to know that God is ultimately in control and that he allowed that to happen and that that's part of your story. And it's not a surprise to him.

It's not outside of his plan. It's not something that he's shocked by or, you know, wouldn't have allowed if he was in control. He is in control. And so even just knowing that, that can be both really encouraging and also very sobering because right when, when, when terrible things happen in your world and you, you believe that and you know that that can be really tough, but it also can be really freeing. Like you said, like I'm

Kevin (51:16.657)
It is.

Kevin (51:23.944)
It is, right? It is.

Nole (51:35.682)
I'm actually not even in control if my heart beats two seconds from now. I can't even control that. So that in a way is very freeing. It can also be scary, but it just depends on your perspective.

Kevin (51:41.126)
No, nothing.

Kevin (51:48.913)
Yeah, and we've been watching the chosen at night, which has been great. And there's a part where, I don't know if it has any biblical accuracy or not, but Simon, who is one of the main characters and his wife have a miscarriage. And we struggled with that, right? But he was literally one of the 12 and he's seen God, Jesus do these unbelievable miracles left and right. He's touring the world with him and he's healing the blind and

Nole (51:51.458)
Yeah. Yeah, that's good.

Nole (52:05.027)
Yeah.

Nole (52:08.396)
Right.

Kevin (52:17.798)
the sick and the lame and he had this thing where he's just crying out where he starts getting pissed off because he goes, he allowed this, he knows this was going on and yet we, you know, and it's, it's wild to think that like some of the challenges in our life were purposeful. And I think that's a real interesting thing. It's like, it's up to us to grow from them, to become resilient. And I think to help others with the experiences that we had, that's my current theory.

Nole (52:26.252)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (52:46.138)
it could change dramatically is that they're purposeful. You're meant to grow from it or learn from it and then help others with whatever that specific thing.

Nole (52:56.93)
Yeah. Yeah. And that's just such a, it's such a horrible, brutal truth. And if you look at like, if you're going to go and forge a sword or any kind of tool, right, you have to put it into the fire and get it heated up to where it's weak and malleable. And then you bring it out and you pound on it with a hammer on an anvil and then you quench it. So you free, you know, you're not freezing it, but you quench it in the oil and you put it back in the fire. Like there's this process, which

if the sword had feeling would be incredibly awful to go through. And those experiences for us, I think, are exactly like that. And we may not ever know in this life where experiencing those miscarriages in your family, where that changed you and your wife and forged you so that you could do something or influence somebody later. You may not ever actually be aware of that, but guaranteed that just like God knows it's happening and he has.

Kevin (53:46.856)
Mmm.

Nole (53:53.903)
awareness of it and he's allowing that to happen. He also knows how it's going to affect you and where on down the line that's going to influence somebody else or change the way your trajectory of life or who knows what. But having the faith to trust that process, I mean, that's the difference between so many people that you and I know who have been through trials and tribulations and who are still believing, right? And trying to, trying their best to follow Christ. And then the other, the other side of that coin,

I know plenty of people, I'm sure you do too, that have experienced something and looked at it and gone just like in the show The Chosen, like why would he allow this? And then they walked away, right? Those are kind of the two sides of that coin. And I understand both, right? I understand both sides and I've chosen to go, you know, the first way as you have, but yeah.

Kevin (54:34.322)
Hmm.

Kevin (54:45.384)
Wow, that's I love that that forge and fire. That's exactly what he's doing is beating us down so that we become the tool of his choice. And I think maybe the way, you know, we can condole, but I wait that we sharpen ourselves is by doing this, like being in the word and praying, remaining in prayer, seeking God's will for your life, surrounding yourself with others, maybe taking care of yourself and the temple that he gave you. You know, I mean, I think that's us sharpening the tool that he's made you into.

Nole (54:50.902)
Yeah.

Nole (55:14.158)
Yeah, I don't know who said it. I could look it up, but it doesn't matter. Somebody smarter than me. They said before God uses a man, he breaks him first. And there's examples of that all over the word. And obviously you've seen it in your own life. I've seen it. It's, it's definitely a truth and it's a terrible truth, right? Nobody wants to be broken. I don't want to go through that stuff, but it's the way the world works.

Kevin (55:24.744)
break them.

Kevin (55:36.009)
No, but what we do look at the people we admire in the world though. They've gone look at they've all gone through. Look at what the military does. What did you guys do and rip? They broke you. What do you know? On the lame level, the fire department tries to break you and cut and trim the fat and see who's willing to survive. And I feel like nothing good in my life has ever been easy, and that's part of the design of God's plan, right? He's going to break you right and break your will.

Nole (55:47.491)
Right.

Nole (55:51.084)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Nole (56:01.54)
Yeah.

Kevin (56:04.656)
until you've surrendered and wave the white flag and say, I do not control anything. You are it. And I will follow your lead.

Nole (56:13.666)
Yeah. Amen.

Dude, we've been all over the place on this episode. Wow.

Kevin (56:18.96)
Yeah, it's been great. It's been great.

It's been great. Well, I love what you say. It's either you're in a storm or you're in a fight. You're coming out of a fight or you're to get in a fight. And I feel like I'm rejoicing a little bit that I, hey, I feel a little bit better. The storm has passed. I'm coming out of it. But this is a good time for me to create a plan or an SOP for an ambush and to say like, hey, this this will happen again.

then maybe this time you can count it joyful and say, let's go, let's get into it. How do we attack this and what is it going to teach me?

Nole (56:57.346)
Yeah, yeah, I'm in that exact same position and like so many things, it's it's right back to in hindsight, I look at it go, this is stuff that we've talked about on the podcast. These are things that I've said. And then now rubber meets the road. Real world. I don't do them. But repetition learning. I'm still figuring it out. Let's make a plan.

Kevin (57:19.704)
And you know, we're talking about contagiousness. And my last point is that we are going to the Sleeping Giant concert very soon. What is it? There's power in live music, almost like a shared experience that's palpable, right? Like you can, and I've played in music and I feel it when I don't think there's, there's something special about live music and the people in the room. There has to be some sort of communal mental, physical, spiritual thing going on.

Nole (57:28.174)
Let's do

Nole (57:49.955)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I heard a really interesting perspective on that. And the guy that was talking about it is, he's an old friend of my dad's and he just loved music, like you, right? Where he's just a music guy and it's like, it's his thing. He's the Captain Donnie Butler of my dad's world. He's just a music guy, knows all about it, loves it. But the thing that he said from a Christian perspective was that God created

Kevin (58:08.68)
Yeah.

Nole (58:19.84)
music. Like that exists because he created it. He built it. It works the way that it does with its notes and its harmonies and all that stuff because he created it that way. It's like math, right? Those types of things. Like God did that. He put that in, of course, math and music. It's not a good comparison because math is horrible and music is great, but you understand what saying. But I think that's part of it. And this guy actually said that you can find beauty and creativity in

Kevin (58:21.394)
course.

Nole (58:43.542)
non-Christian music because it's using the same building blocks that God created to do this thing. And so even if it's not created to honor him, it still has all those positive elements about it, which is why you can listen to, you gave the example earlier of a Taylor Swift song and it can lift your spirits. It can like make you want to dance. Like it does these good positive things. So I think you're totally right. And I think when you take that and you combine it with a belief in God and the desire to praise him.

Kevin (58:47.131)
Mmm.

Kevin (59:00.829)
Right.

Nole (59:10.946)
You put it in a tiny venue with a bunch of people that want to do the same thing. And it just elevates it to a crazy level and sleeping giant is going to be that and more.

Kevin (59:18.427)
Yeah.

Kevin (59:21.832)
Yeah, and dude, so we did the big ass calendar again this year. And one of the things that I saw that was missing from last year, even though it was a phenomenal year, is I didn't go to any shows. I mean, very minimal. And so this year we have booked, we got Sleeping Giant, we got Forrest Frank, I got Face to Face, I'm going to Newfound Glory Yellow Card Show, and Bill Murray.

Nole (59:33.004)
yeah. Yeah.

Nole (59:40.469)
yes. dude.

Whoa! No, dude.

Kevin (59:49.673)
And all those people have different like, yes, these are great shows and all those in each each one I'm going to with like a different group of different friend, you know what mean? And there's the anticipation of who we're going with and the family's going to the Forrest Frank one. And it's really fun. And so I'm like, I think I really miss that live that live music and whatever genre. And yeah, it'd be great.

Nole (59:51.316)
Whoa.

Nole (59:58.646)
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Of course. yeah.

Nole (01:00:09.134)
Dude, yes. Yes.

Dude, that's amazing. That's a great lineup. I'm very jealous because right now the only show I have booked is Sleeping Giant. I'm going to have to up my game. Which night are you going to?

Kevin (01:00:21.842)
forget the day that worked. was one of the days that I was.

Nole (01:00:26.733)
dude.

Kevin (01:00:28.048)
Anyways, great times. Put some shows on the books, peeps.

Nole (01:00:33.11)
shows. Love live music.

Kevin (01:00:35.836)
All right, till next time. This has been the FireUKerry Podcast.

Nole (01:00:55.33)
Kevin.

Kevin (01:00:56.818)
Great stuff.

Nole (01:00:57.772)
What are the dates for the next Fire Up program?

Kevin (01:01:00.073)
May 15th, 16th, 17th. What's very confusing though is when we have this and it's like our 16th class so it says and then it's May 15th.

Nole (01:01:01.805)
Yes.

Nole (01:01:09.486)
Class 16 on the 15th. That has been messing me up. I ran into our very own Captain Toby and his wife Sue. I ran into them at Lake Arrowhead yesterday and we were talking about it and how exciting it was going to be. We ran into another program guy there at the Village in Lake Arrowhead and we were talking about the program. He's going to be up there again. We got an amazing group of dudes. As of right now when we're recording this, which is on the 15th, there are six.

Kevin (01:01:13.489)
Yes.

Kevin (01:01:18.224)
love KT.

Kevin (01:01:27.888)
What?

Nole (01:01:37.902)
slots left, six tickets left. So if you're on the fence, stop being on the fence because we do cap it and it is a hard cap. So please go sign up and we'll see you out there May 15th, 16th, 17th for class 16, technically 17, but we did a class zero anyway.

Kevin (01:01:40.539)
Mmm.

Kevin (01:01:54.3)
Let's go.

Nole (01:02:03.801)
Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.