268: Escaping the "Season of Blah" (And Why We’re Eating So Much Rice)

Welcome back to The Fire You Carry! This week, Nole and Kevin sit down to tackle a feeling we all know too well: hitting a mental wall and finding yourself stuck in a "season of blah."

When you're down in the valley, sprinting out isn't an option. The guys discuss how getting your momentum back is all about returning to the foundational basics. We dive into the importance of prioritizing sleep, dialing in your nutrition with Stan Efferding’s "Vertical Diet" (meat, rice, and bone broth), and learning to focus your energy only on your direct sphere of influence.

Kevin and Nole also talk through the brutal reality of properly executing the Norwegian 4x4 VO2 Max protocol, the immune-boosting benefits of L-glutamine, and why putting on the "Dad Hat" and saying yes to your kids should always beat out finishing your household chores.

Big thank you to My Epic and Facedown Records for the use of their song "Hail" in our podcast!
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Transcript

Nole (00:07.156)
play the music it saves me a lot of time.

Kevin (00:20.776)
Welcome back to the Fire You Carry Podcast. We're back. I'm Kevin and that's

Nole Lilley. And we're just reintroducing ourselves. It's been a while. I just got back. My daughter is in her second little season of lacrosse. I'm I'm proud dad right now. She scored her first goal today. And there's a lot of goals in lacrosse, but last year it was all about like learning the game and learning how to cradle the ball so doesn't fall out of your stick. And she was just kind of running around. She was like overly aggressive because she came from hockey and you can't

Nole (00:29.833)
I'm here.

Nole (00:57.618)
Kevin (00:58.51)
just mash people. Now in the women's game is different than the men's lacrosse. This is it's almost a different game, but you can't like men's have full on helmets, gear, pads, and they can mash each other. But women's cannot. I guess the quality hasn't reached. There is contact, but it's dramatically less than the boys for sure. Like you can't just absolutely check somebody and wreck them.

Nole (01:02.07)
Good.

Nole (01:15.67)
No contact.

Nole (01:26.366)
In lacrosse, have the, it's the stick with the net. Yeah. So, okay. So the cradle, I get that. How does one score a goal?

Kevin (01:30.514)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (01:35.572)
So the girl yeah, it's basically what you would think right you take the balls in the net you're cradling it So the girls have to cradle quite a bit more than the boys because the boys have a pocket in there in their stick It's a deeper pocket Yeah, that's the thing. So the girls it's almost flat like and so it's harder for the ball to stay in for some reason I Don't know. I don't know at all. I don't know at all but

Nole (01:48.895)
What?

Nole (01:56.49)
Why?

Kevin (02:03.54)
It's kind of cool. You know, this is an East Coast thing. We did not grow up with lacrosse. What a cool sport though, man. It seems like a mix of hockey and soccer and a couple other things. I looked up the history of it. It's a Native American sport. Did you know this?

Nole (02:16.79)
I didn't know that, now that makes sense. I've seen drawings.

Kevin (02:20.868)
And man, if I could be a fly on the wall, it might have said they had like 50 people on each side and the game went for like miles. That would have been rad. That just would have been anarchy.

Nole (02:29.556)
Whoa.

Nole (02:33.34)
and fitness. Is there a goalie?

Kevin (02:35.122)
Yeah, dude, let's go. Yeah, I got a goalie goalie's got a helmet and pads and they have like what looks like a giant fisherman's net. It's just like it's just like literally what you would think if you were going to grab a sea bass. You know what mean? Like it's just this big fisherman's net. So it's pretty funny. But there's a couple there's two sports that if you say that you were the goalie in at least for men's sports like water polo.

Nole (02:50.72)
Yeah. Man.

Nole (03:01.152)
Hmm.

Kevin (03:04.924)
and lacrosse. There's something wrong with you. There's something wrong with you. Cause I watched the men's and they're flying this ball at least. I mean, it's gotta be a hundred miles an hour or more right at your face. And these dudes are just taking it and then water polo. The only thing out of the water is your face and you have to somehow egg beater the entire time while they're throwing the ball mock eight at your face and

Nole (03:25.782)
Mm.

Nole (03:29.621)
Mm-mm.

Kevin (03:34.014)
purposely trying to skip it off the water into your face. So mad respect.

Nole (03:37.59)
Yeah, I'm not built to be a goalie. don't have the, well, A, I can't swim and B, I'm not fast. You take it, just for the listener out there, you take a swing at me and I'm gonna eat it. I'm not gonna move. I'm just gonna take it. I'm not quick.

Kevin (03:54.28)
It's surprisingly difficult. We have two Marsok Marines on my shift and they're absolute studs and we've been doing some underwater training, which has been cool. But we've been trying to do this thing where we spent five minutes just hands above the water. Full disclosure, we have a draft pit, a drafting pit that's the size of a pool and looks like a pool at our station, but it's a drafting pit. So every now and then we go in there and we do some training.

Nole (04:02.523)
Nole (04:09.322)
Yeah.

drafting pit.

Nole (04:21.024)
Tell the...

Ha

Kevin (04:24.144)
And it's been warming up a little bit, so we tried to do five minutes with your hands above the water. And I realized really quickly, like my legs, I don't know how to egg beater at all. That's a mad respect for these water polo people. But they were telling us they had to do that. It's just part of their whatever their easily qualification. It's something that they had to test often. And they're in like camis and boots and the whole thing.

Nole (04:36.041)
Mm-mm.

Yeah.

Nole (04:50.678)
Yeah, we had to do that fairly frequently in Ranger Battalion 2 and I was always awful at it. You gotta explain to the humble listener what a drafting pit is at the firehouse.

Kevin (05:00.948)
Yeah. Somehow. You know, yeah, for the, the assistant managers, the drivers of the rig, they have to get water and sometimes you'd have to get water out of an aqueduct or a pool if there's a brush fire. And so there's a drafting pit and they can learn how to draft water into the engine as a water source to use as your, instead of a fire hydrant. So there's all kinds of ways you can do it.

Nole (05:04.854)
Well, in your case, that's true. But what do we use it for? Come on. For the UPS driver out there. Tell them.

Nole (05:30.358)
Yeah, it's like sucking it up out of a straw into the pump of the engine. So you need a standing body of water to practice, which is why at Kevin's station, there is a drafting pit, which has coping and a, I mean, it's a pool. It's a swimming pool.

Kevin (05:30.485)
You know, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (05:40.722)
Ha ha!

Kevin (05:47.122)
I might go on record, we might have the only pool out of Fire Station in the country. mean, if you're out there, if somebody's listening out there and you have a swimming pool at your Fire Station hauler, because we got to know those people. It's a nice feature.

Nole (05:51.87)
It's the only one I know about.

Nole (05:59.731)
Yeah, let us know. It is a nice feature. So I've been eating rice lately. Thought I would talk about that. Thought you'd get a kick out of that.

Kevin (06:06.569)
how's that going?

I love rice.

Nole (06:11.158)
I found out I love rice too. It was never really part of my diet. We'd make it every once in while at home with the family, but it wasn't really a staple. And then when I had that illness in February, it was like one of the few things that I was able to eat, you know? Because I was dealing with that gut issue. So I was eating rice and I've just kind of carried on the tradition. And I'm just really enjoying taking rice and like frying eggs into it and then putting some soy sauce on there or ground beef and rice.

Kevin (06:24.978)
Yes.

Kevin (06:35.644)
Yes. What are we talking, white race? Yeah, that's the way.

Nole (06:39.028)
just straight white rice. mean, I, you know, have to buy the organic stuff, but yeah, I'm not all about that brown rice. That stuff, allegedly it's better for you. I don't really think that's true. And it just doesn't, it doesn't taste good. So.

Kevin (06:46.642)
That's trash.

I don't think it is though.

Well, if anybody out there look up a dude named Stan Efferding, they call him the Rhino. He's the world's strongest bodybuilder and he competed in powerlifting and he actually happened to do a seminar in Temecula when I went to. I watched the man deadlift 850 pounds like it was nothing. But he has a hit. Yeah, he so after the seminar, basically on.

Nole (06:57.695)
yeah, the rhino.

Nole (07:12.074)
Was that part of his seminar?

Kevin (07:17.744)
He did it on strength training, on bodybuilding, on powerlifting and all things general wellness. He's a really, really smart guy in the industry. And then he's in, he's got to be close to 60 now or in his sixties, but afterwards he called it a deadlift party. Hey, everybody grab a bar and let's start ripping some weight, you know, just cause everyone wants to work out with them. Right. So he takes the bar and he put a band over it and just a straight 45 pound bar. And he did like five reps with the band and then he sat down.

And then he put 45s on. So you got 135 and he does like five reps. And then my man just can, he would completely sit down. He's not walking around. He just sitting down and people would talk to him and whatever he'd wait two, three minutes. And then he'd put another 45 on and he'd get a couple of reps. And then he did it all the way up until about like 500 when he was just doing singles and he just added 90 pounds every time.

Nole (08:14.57)
god.

Kevin (08:15.316)
until he got into like the 850 range and he was like, Oh, that's good. And he completely crushed even the strongest dudes that were there that were power lifters probably gotten the sixes and he went well above that. And he was just ripping weight off the ground. It was pretty impressive. Yes. So all that to stay, he has this, um, um, he has a diet called the vertical lean diet and you can do it two ways. So he recommends

Nole (08:24.98)
Yeah, that's heavy.

Nole (08:30.186)
I'm guessing he eats rice. Rice is the thing.

Kevin (08:45.396)
There's a famous, famous bodybuilder out there named Flex Wheeler who is very well known, I think in the 80s and 90s, and he's just incredibly shredded. But what he would do is he would increase over time the amount of meat and rice that you have. So let's say you start with four ounces of ground beef and then you would have a cup of rice. He would do that for a few weeks and then the next month it would be six ounces of and a cup and a half.

And over time, now like these guys would increase their calorie counts so that they can gain muscle. And then he cuts out a little bit of meat and a little bit of rice. If you're leaning or trying to lean out, but it's essentially that you have eggs and rice in the morning with some fruit. We have meat and rice for lunch and meat and rice for dinner. You know what I mean? With some baby carrots and some other things for some micronutrients. And it's not rocket science.

Nole (09:21.044)
Hmm.

Nole (09:27.111)
Okay, yeah, yeah.

Kevin (09:43.188)
But it's just basically that. And I have, when I have followed that, it's essentially a gluten free diet because rice is gluten free. And I felt great. I felt always, I always feel great when I'm consistent on.

Nole (09:51.038)
Right. Right.

Nole (09:59.071)
So I had to do some math because I was doing ground beef and rice. And then I thought I'm going to do some eggs, you know, I'm eating eggs in a while because I've been doing just that at work. Obviously at home, I'm still eating whatever the family's eating. But so I got on. I wondered to myself how much protein is in half a pound of ground beef because I would do half a pound of ground beef for lunch and half for dinner, you know, pound a day with the rice. And I thought.

Yeah, it's probably like four eggs, you know, just trying to picture it in my brain. It's six eggs to equal the same amount of protein as half a pound of ground beef, six eggs, which when you do that, it really just means you're kind of eating eggs with some rice mixed in because you can't, that's a lot of eggs.

Kevin (10:32.222)
Wow. Wow.

Kevin (10:42.26)
That's a lot of eggs.

Nole (10:43.69)
I mean, it's still good, but I was kind of disappointed. was like, dude, that's a lot of eggs, but what are you going to do?

Kevin (10:47.444)
Yeah, that's a lot of eggs. Now the pro tip is meat and rice can kind of get bland, but he likes to put in a half cup. So let's say you have a brick of meat. It's a half pound and you have a cup of rice. You put a half cup of bone broth in that and mix it around and it softens it up and it gets it some taste. It's delicious. I could eat, he calls it his monster.

Nole (11:01.536)
Okay.

Nole (11:09.93)
Bone broth has a shocking amount of pro protein in it too.

Kevin (11:13.594)
It does and it has some benefits for your GI system and all kinds of stuff. if you get some bone broth, throw a half cup in there and me. that made to me that made that meal dramatically better.

Nole (11:16.638)
Yeah. man. Bone broth.

Nole (11:25.332)
I was in Whole Foods the other day, not by choice. I was there with the other guys on the rig. wanted to go there. Nothing against Whole Foods, but I don't shop there. And right. Exactly. Plus there's a bunch of really fun and cool stuff in there that costs way too much. And you see it, you're like, I gotta buy that. For example, my buddy Diego was looking for some bone broth and lo and behold, they sell venison bone broth at Whole Foods. You can get deer bone broth from deer bones.

Kevin (11:34.11)
whole paycheck.

Kevin (11:51.186)
Whoa, whoa.

Nole (11:55.496)
I don't know if it's any better, but it just sounds better, know, venison bone broth. I didn't buy any, so I can't tell you anything about it, but.

Kevin (12:00.636)
Yeah.

That's nice. There's a dude, think you and I were big on the Walmart for a while because they would have a pack of bison meat, which I think is fantastic. It's a little bit leaner. It looks like, I don't know, it looks organic to me. It just got that deep red meat, but I like that if I can find it at a decent price, I always get bricks of that.

Nole (12:10.286)
huh.

Nole (12:14.88)
Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Nole (12:26.216)
Yeah, I'm going to say something that somebody listening is probably going to hear and go, that's not true. And they're going to want to correct us, but they can only do that on YouTube, which this video is on YouTube. And we've got some great backgrounds for you today. This one looks like I took one of those like stock backgrounds that you can use, you know, on zoom. It's called the storage shed. That's what this is, except this is real. I can touch it. Yeah, we've yeah, don't tell anybody we're we're hoarding. Zap hand soap anyway.

Kevin (12:35.508)
Hmm.

Kevin (12:42.578)
Yeah, restockers.

Kevin (12:47.09)
Restock's looking good, strong work.

Kevin (12:53.385)
So.

Nole (12:55.636)
What was I saying?

Kevin (12:58.036)
I don't know, but I wanted to hear why, because you've been, I I mean, you were feeling pretty crappy. So did the rice start helping you feel a little better and a little bit more carbohydrates, a little bit more calories?

Nole (13:10.26)
I think that did help. was actually also doing bone broth with it. I started taking some L-glutamine, which immediately helped. And then a lot of it was mental. was stressed. was just doing a lot of negative thinking. And I think I was just keeping my cortisol unnecessarily high, which was making my body have a hard time healing. So I think it was quite a few things. The most dramatic improvement happened after I started taking the L-glutamine though.

Kevin (13:13.78)
Mmm.

Nole (13:40.193)
which is something that, Kailin Ploof told me to do. So I bought that and like immediately started feeling better. Apparently that stuff. dude, I don't have the thing here, but it's like one scoop. tells you if you're having issues to take two or three a day. And I did that initially. Now I'm down to one. I've been just taking one for GI issues. Yeah. It's supposed to be really good for anything digestive and then.

Kevin (13:40.328)
Rude, mean, huh?

Kevin (13:49.18)
What's your dosage? How much are you taking?

Kevin (13:59.528)
for GI issues? Yeah, okay.

Nole (14:08.074)
Because your digestive system is so tied in with your immune system, it's also supposed to be good for that. I guess I'd never heard of this before, but I guess a lot of people, if they're starting to feel like they might be getting sick or they're around sick people, they'll start taking glutamine and people swear by it. They say it wards off basic common colds and stuff because it boosts up your immune system. So haven't tested that. Don't know anything about it.

Kevin (14:29.212)
Yeah, the Dr. Rhonda Patrick is big on glutamine. Real big. She takes it fasted in the morning. I forget her dosage, but I looked at the one that I got and I take like three in the morning. I mean, I have gotten, we got deathly sick, what, a couple months ago or a month ago. But other than that, I do feel like I've been less sick, even though I'm still working in paramedic and in the hospitals and with a bunch of sickies and homeless and whatnot. I feel like I've been less sick this year. mean, besides the one, you

Nole (14:34.047)
Yes.

Nole (14:46.036)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (14:58.578)
Deathbed.

Nole (14:59.776)
Yeah, I mean, you can't, there's nothing you can take to ward off everything. But I mean, if you can eliminate one or two colds a year, that'd be a huge win.

Kevin (15:09.438)
Good. Well, you're talking about it. I mean, it seemed I've definitely felt like I've been in a rut or a season of blah. I'm on my phone more than often. I know we're coming out of that sickness. I feel like I haven't really been driving on some of the things that I'm normally like crazy passionate about, like the podcast or the program or even the BMW stuff, which helps a lot of people. I'm just more reactionary to like when a call or an email comes in instead of like really driving, which is.

And then the workout thing, feel like everything's been a chore, know, like, man, I really got to force myself to get my shoes on and get it in and like, Hey, I'll do some pumps, like, haven't really since the four by four by 48, I haven't really tried to do any cardio stuff or had a, and I hope pros have a plan. have a plan, but it just, it's one those things that, it just seems off. Every everything seems off. You know I mean? Or it's like a season of blah, which I'm not trying to beat myself up too much about it, but I'm like,

Nole (15:52.278)
Hmm.

Kevin (16:07.056)
it would be nice to get out of that because I like I definitely like more of the season of like hey when you're when you're driving the boat if that makes sense.

Nole (16:16.404)
Yeah, dude, I'm definitely in the same season, especially when it comes to this podcast and the program. It just kind of feels like every time I try to sit down and tackle something for it, even if it's something as simple as scheduling a guest, it feels really hard to do. it's just, I don't know, definitely feel like I'm down. said at the beginning of episode, you said like being down in the valley and

which is interesting because that immediately made me think about some of the, a lot of the talks we've had about the program where we talk about that mountain top experience, but literally mountain top, cause we're on the mountains, but, but also just like those times in life where

You're motivated. You've got some new inputs coming in. You feel fired up. You want to work out. You, you can't wait to get home and knock out that project or whatever. And you're raring and ready to go. But then there's those seasons where you're down in the valley, which we both, we've talked about this multiple times, but we both feel like we're kind of in that spot. And like you said, it's not a woe is me thing. It's, it's a normal pattern of life, right? We go through these highs and lows. And so then.

I mean, we just briefly talked about it at the beginning, before we hit record, so you didn't hear it. Don't think you missed it. But like, what do you do? What do you do when you're down there?

Kevin (17:37.812)
Hmm.

Kevin (17:44.854)
Well, I'm always thinking the basics, right? Like I have been working more and I don't sleep great at the station. I know a lot of it has to do with my sleep. I struggle with sleep. I'm just going to say it. I've noticed Noel has a gift. He can just fall asleep. I will stare at the ceiling and then when we get a call or we get toned out at night, I suck. I suck at going back to sleep. I feel like, I have to get to take a piss or maybe I need a scoop of peanut butter, dude, or

Nole (17:56.886)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (18:12.342)
Yeah.

Kevin (18:12.796)
And then I'm like, and then the death sentence is looking at your phone. And then I got, you know what I mean? So like, I know like I have to start with like the basics is like force myself to try to get better sleep. I got to force myself to try to eat not crap. And like, am I eating desserts a lot? Am I eating lasagna? Am I eating pizza? Like that's a thing. So I got to start with the basics. Am I taking basic multivitamins and stuff like that? And then exercise, but

Other than that, like, I feel like for me, I'm doing less things that give me joy, like hanging out with a buddy or getting outside and going on a hike or calling a friend or like, I feel like I need to change up the environment and do something different because it's kind of the same monotonous thing. Work home, work home, work home, work home.

Nole (19:04.958)
Yeah, my, I'm dude, I'm right there with you. do fall asleep incredibly easy, but I have been, I've been in a mode where I'm squandering my nights at work where I can go to bed easily at the station that I'm at, I'll say nine o'clock will be reasonable. And I'll sleep until in the morning, was six in the morning when I get up to get ready to go home or whatever and sleep all night. But I've started to.

I've noticed this recently actually that because I have that kind of knowledge that I'm not going to get woken up, I'll push it. I'll stay up later. I'll be playing video games with my brother or my son or whatever from, from work. And I'll just, I'll stay up later because I'll, you know, whatever. But then I ended up, you know, now I'm compromising. am compromising my sleep because now I'm getting less where I could have got eight plus hours. Now maybe I'm only getting six and the thing I'm doing right before bed is a screen. Right? So that's.

Kevin (19:39.412)
Mmm.

Nole (20:02.945)
just terrible for your sleep quality. I've been abusing that lately. And, and dude, my thing would lately, when we get a call at night, I don't know about you, but if I take a nap during the day, or if I wake up at night for a call, my body is craving carbs like crazy. It doesn't happen when I wake up in the morning, only when you get like interrupted sleep. So then lately, dude, I've had a bunch of nights where we do get a call and then I'll go in the kitchen and I just like, lose all self control and I just started eating bowls of cereal.

Kevin (20:18.663)
Yes, dude.

Kevin (20:29.68)
Yes. Yes.

Nole (20:31.166)
at three o'clock in the morning, which is one of the worst things that you can do for the rest of your night's sleep, right? It's trash after that if you can fall asleep at all, which I can, but then I wake up feeling terrible. But yeah, those are the things, like obviously that's the wrong answer. Like if I'm trying to get out of this valley and this slump that I'm in, I know the things that I should be doing. And I don't know, dude, I guess I'm just kind of accepting the status quo in certain ways and just like,

Kevin (20:58.726)
Yeah. There's a weird phenomenon. My wife calls it reclaiming my own time. Like when I come home on the day of I know I'm probably tired from the shift before, you know, and instead of like doing what you do is like getting in bed when the kids go to bed at like nine o'clock. I'll put them down and then stay up and watch a movie or like fluff around or like do laundry. I don't know what I'm doing, but she thinks it's like me reclaiming my own time. Like, I can do.

Nole (20:59.808)
Whatever, I'll push through it.

Nole (21:06.4)
Hmm.

Nole (21:21.227)
Yeah.

Kevin (21:28.36)
you know, I have the option, which is not good either. You know, and like everything I've ever read, it says like consistent sleep times. And now I know we can't do that at work, but you know, the more I can like push through and go to bed early, the better chance I have of feeling better and stopping that cycle, blah. But it's sometimes, sometimes hard to do.

Nole (21:28.563)
I have the option, yeah.

Nole (21:41.012)
Right. Well, you can't.

Nole (21:52.481)
Yeah. And that's really, I mean, you started with that for a reason, right? That's the low hanging fruit is something that at least when you're home is controllable for me at work. It's somewhat controllable, but you got to start with those things, especially if you're in a season where you're down in the valley and it's because of external circumstances, whether it's an illness or some family tragedy or something, those are things you can't control. then you do have to start looking at, okay, what are the things that I can?

actually affect. There was a captain recently at my station, his name's Haynes, good dude, and he was talking about something completely unrelated, but he had an analogy that I really liked and I've been thinking about a lot. And he was talking about your sphere of influence. Have you heard of this? You've heard of this. I'd never heard of it before, but it made a lot of sense to me. And so he was talking about

You know, you've got all these concerns and then you've got all, you basically have these three circles, these Venn diagrams. And he was talking about learning to only focus your energies on the things that you could actually affect. having knowledge about whatever's going on in the world, the Iran war, for example, well, it's not inherently bad if you're in, but if you're expending energy on thinking about it and talking about it and it's consuming your thoughts, that's outside of your sphere of influence is basically his point.

Kevin (23:14.452)
Yeah.

Nole (23:19.818)
and that it's wasted energy. And so I think the same principle can be applied here with being down in the valley. If I'm down in the valley because, I don't know, the car broke down or a loved one died or something, like things that you can't really do anything about in the moment, then thinking about putting energy into worrying about talking about it, it's not really that, it's not valuable because you can't really do anything about it. So then you have to refocus and go, well, what is in my sphere of influence? Going to bed early.

Kevin (23:41.906)
Yeah.

Kevin (23:46.814)
Hmm.

Nole (23:49.44)
doing breathing, being in the word, spending time with the kids, like those type of things.

Kevin (23:50.587)
Yeah.

Kevin (23:55.859)
I remember your dad was talking about how like our brains don't have the actual capacity to like ingest the amount of information that we get on a daily basis. Like it just, we just, we just don't, not, we're not, we are not like biologically wired to like wake up and know everything in the world that is going on and then think that there's not, yeah, that there's not going to be a

Nole (24:02.71)
Mm.

Nole (24:06.71)
Hmm.

Nole (24:20.188)
Yeah, every detail.

Kevin (24:25.052)
like a repercussion or maybe that your brain is like overwhelmed. And sometimes I think about that. Sometimes I, you know, I'll wake up in full disclosure, like I will look at my phone and I'll see what's going on in the world. I'll try to like check in and then, and yeah, by the end of the day, I'm like, you know, you're either overstimulated or what, but I was listening to the Tim Ferriss who I quote often and he, he might be in a different area the way he's a very successful man, top podcaster.

author, he does a lot of angel investing and tons of stuff. He's not married, he does not have kids, but he three hours is blocked out of the day for creative things in the morning. So whether it's his writing, his podcast, his, just doesn't go into like the emails or the phone calls or the work stuff or whatever. We really don't have that luxury, but I do though, if I think about it, like I could block out

Nole (25:09.046)
Hmm.

Kevin (25:24.486)
on the days that I'm off. I'm on a four day right now. I'm four days off. When I wake up, I don't have to get into like, you know, watching Fox News and then doing emails and then handling chores. I I love the creative part about it. I could think about what we can do on a podcast or the program or how to help somebody or do something creative on music stuff or like, and so I'm trying to pivot like, hey, I'm looking at my year as a quarterly.

and we kind of finished up the first quarter. I'm like, hey, the second quarter, I'm to try to pivot on the days that I have home. There's not a whole lot in that's like burning fires that need to be taken care of. It's trying to do something in the creative realm in those first few hours.

Nole (26:08.063)
Yeah, that's really solid. actually think I picked that up from you somewhere else through Tim Ferriss or something because I noticed that my wife is a creative person and she's actually talked about it before too about how getting, doing the creative thing that she needs to do. Like for example, right now she's working on stuff for her sister's wedding. So she's making, I don't know, flower arrangements, corsages. I don't really know what that is, but

She's doing stuff like that and she tries to do it earlier in the day because that's when being creative is more effective and you haven't burned your energy or your brain power, if you will, doing the random mundane chores that you kind of just have to do. I had a realization that's a little different than this, but also similar. I was just home for four days and Indy is turning 11 this month and he...

You know, he's always been a super active kid. He just wants to wrestle. He wants to fight. He wants to be outside. He, you know, he's active, very active and I'm dad. So when I'm home, he's constantly asking me to do stuff with him. And I noticed this four day that I was, I was putting, doing stuff with him off until I finished like the, kind of the work and the chores of the day. So, you know, I needed to hang some bikes on, I needed to put up some hooks for bikes to hang on, on the side of the deck, like, you know, just stuff around the house.

Kevin (27:23.294)
Yeah, yeah.

Nole (27:31.146)
needed to do some stuff with some of the cars, had to switch a battery out, just like work, know, dad stuff. And so the first couple of days I was like, okay, yeah, we'll get to that, we'll get to that, we'll get to that. And I'm still trying to include him in those projects, you know, I'm not just ignoring him, but he doesn't want to do that. He wants to throw the football, he wants to, you know, run through the woods. The last couple of days I switched that around and started trying to give him some time and attention and...

It's amazing watching that and how, how much it means to him. It almost broke my heart because we threw the football back and forth for like 10 minutes. And, and then we moved on to the next thing because it started to rain. But, but, afterward he was like, thanks dad. Thanks for throwing the ball with me. And I was like, dude, I'm such an ass. Like the last couple of days I've been making him wait until the end of the day when I'm tired.

Kevin (28:23.483)
Right.

Nole (28:25.694)
Right. And now I have less energy and I'm, I'm still trying to be there for him and do the things, but it's like, it's so much better to knock that stuff out. And then the end, when I looked at it, I was like, does it matter if I put the battery in the car right now? Like, no, the battery is still working. I just need to swap it out. Does it matter when I hang the hook, the bikes on the hook? No, but I can have a positive impact on my son's day, like right now. So why would I wait? That was a good lesson for me.

I think it's kind of similar.

Kevin (28:55.444)
Man No, very similar last week was the same thing for me I had my laptop out and I was looking at different emails and different things and my daughter asked us like She could go, you know, throw the little cross ball back and forth and I was like, yeah, hold on, you know I just kept saying hold on and Then yeah, it was it was just like this you can I saw the disappointment and she walked away and I was like What the hell am I doing dude? I just slammed the laptop down. I went outside and we had a blast. You know what mean?

Nole (29:11.412)
Yeah, because you got to finish what you're doing, right?

Kevin (29:25.502)
And I'm like, I have to say yes. I have to say yes because our time already is limited. I'm not, I'm not at home 50 % of the month. I have to, I have to say yes. And they're, I'm, looking at it and you're already there. There's going to be a time that they don't want to do that anymore or they're gone. And so I'm like, dude, yes, I have to say yes. You know what mean? And if that's what they, that's the most important to them thing right then, and they want to spend it with you, then man, get off your ass. Like, what am I thinking? What am I doing? You know,

Nole (29:53.387)
Yeah, dude, I think a lot of that is actually trained behavior from our job as firemen. You were saying this not too long ago, but you know, in our line of work, we never know when we're going to get interrupted. So if we have a task that we have to complete that day, it seems universal. The guys want to get it done early. You know, if you've got to go out and do hydrant inspections for three hours, guys are like, let's get it done right now. We'll work out later. And I think the reason for that is because we have interruptions, because we don't know what the day holds.

Kevin (30:12.134)
Yeah, get her done.

Nole (30:21.384)
If you wait, sometimes it gets interrupted and then you don't accomplish that task. And then you got to shift it to the next shift and it, you know, it becomes a snowball. So I think we're trained. mean, even here was stuff like, talk about this a lot lately, but cleaning the bathrooms. I just want to get that done. I want to get it off my plate. And maybe for me, the answer is to, when I go home, you know, take off the work hat, put on the dad hat and recognize that the task of the day is to take care of.

Indy and Heather. And that's the task. And the other things, if they get done, okay, great. If not, that's no big deal. Just move that down to the next shift.

Kevin (30:52.253)
Yeah.

Kevin (31:03.7)
Yeah, it's good stuff. No, think progress for me is recognizing that we're in a rut or we're in a season of blah. Before, would never recognize that until like 18 people said something or something, you know what mean? But it's like, okay, yeah, feel like, yeah, there's too many days in a row that I'm just kind of like existing instead of doing something. And so, yeah, I mean, I'm talking to you, we're talking about it here, we're talking about other things.

Nole (31:18.469)
What's wrong with you?

Kevin (31:31.336)
You know that I was listening to that Tim Ferriss thing the other day and he was talking about creativity. So one of my daughters has an ukulele and I know you play a little bit. So I like I just got it and opened up YouTube, tuned it up and then there's that Eddie Vedder song, Rise Up, know, such is the way of the world. And so I learned that like first chorus and then whatever, it's three chords, right? And surprisingly, I felt amazingly better.

Nole (31:39.53)
I do.

Nole (31:47.902)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (32:00.117)
you and that was like 15 minutes of just strumming this stupid cheap ook, you know what mean? And so I'm like, what do I, think I got to build in those things, right? It doesn't have to be super grandiose, but maybe it's 15 minutes on a little guitar or something, you know?

Nole (32:06.059)
That's rad.

Nole (32:16.468)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's almost probably mandatory that it's not grandiose, right? Because if you're down, when we're down in the valley, you know, you can't, you can't see too far ahead. There's not, you know, I if we're looking at an actual valley, like climbing out of it takes time, you can't sprint, you can't sprint out of the valley because it's a it's a giant hill, either on either side, it doesn't matter which direction you're going.

Kevin (32:22.162)
Right.

Nole (32:43.235)
If you're trying to get up to the peak, it's a slow process, which means that every step matters.

That means that the little stuff matters. Getting the ukulele out, opening a book, playing with your kids, all the small stuff. That's what's going to get you out of it. And then I think the recognition should be made too, that it's okay and it's natural to be down there, right? Nobody lives on the mountaintop all the time. It's just not, it's not the way life works. There's phases and seasons just like there is, you know, out on the...

Kevin (32:54.003)
Yes.

Nole (33:19.254)
quote unquote real world with the weather and all that stuff and it's normal. But it's key, I think, that we don't get stuck down there. And I know you feel that, right? Because we're talking about it. We're like, don't want to be, I don't be stuck here. Like, how do we move on? And

Kevin (33:35.22)
Yeah, I noticed a couple of things that I think maybe have got me off track. So I always like to have the big three is like a little checklist of dopamine to say, here's a big three today that I put in the notes section of my phone to say, I'm going to do this, this and this. And those three things. Well, those three things that I looked over the last few months have become 87 things. You know what mean? And I'm like, I look at this thing and of course nothing has happened.

Nole (33:47.894)
Hmm.

Nole (33:55.978)
Yeah.

Nole (34:01.463)
not so overwhelming. Yeah.

Kevin (34:02.141)
because there's too many things on the to-do list, right? And so I almost have to start over and I'm like, look, I have to do the big three just for the day. And then I really have to go back and like, I've always done like goals and goal setting, but then this year for some reason, I think we were busy, the program was in January, I just kind of threw it in a drawer and I haven't reviewed it. And I look, I gotta go back and pull those out and either redo it or see what's up and then try to incorporate that more often because I've...

Nole (34:10.816)
Hmm.

Nole (34:19.83)
Hmm.

Kevin (34:30.548)
Anytime that I have it in the front of my head and I'm looking at it and I'm, working backwards on those goals. feel like, okay, that's where I'm driving the bus a little bit. That's where I'm moving forward. I feel a little bit better. I'm getting the dopamine hits of crossing things off the list and I'm not, I'm just like, it's more of a reactionary thing right now. And so I'm like, dude, we got to get back to the, what we know what to do. It's like, I have to put down the goals. I got to look at the goal setting if it's appropriate for the rest of the year.

Nole (34:40.138)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Nole (34:45.151)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (34:58.13)
And then let's work backwards, but only do it in smaller increments of three things a day, you know, or what can I do? What's the most positive thing today?

Nole (35:02.326)
Hmm.

Yeah, that's key, man. I kill myself with huge lists all the time. I've had a list in my notebook with program stuff for the last month. And it's so long that most days I don't even look at it. It's just like, it's too much, right? And should I be able to open that giant list and just pick one or two things? Of course. But it's like, it feels too overwhelming to look at that giant list and just go, I'm never going to get a

Kevin (35:21.939)
Yes.

Nole (35:34.902)
So then I go do something else entirely, which is not the right answer.

Kevin (35:37.935)
No, no. Yeah, I think for some reason, I will, have to have maybe like a wish list of things that we'd like to do and put that on another one and then randomly put out one or two of those things on the, on the big three when it seems appropriate. Like that's a day. Yeah. And then the last thing I know, like I recognize this, like personal things are like the garage is a mess. There's

Nole (35:46.645)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (35:51.114)
Yeah, pull them out, put them on a different thing. Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (36:03.602)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (36:04.085)
piles of clothes, have some things that I need to like reorganize or toss or get rid of and kind of like do some downsizing. What do they call it? A minimal, minimal, the minimalist.

Nole (36:15.764)
Minimalizing, yeah minimalist. I don't know what the word is.

Kevin (36:18.26)
Yeah, I'm just like looking around. I have pile of papers and different things and like the tax return stuff is still out on like I need to go put that away. I feel like, oh, maybe that's all crowding your brain where you're just kind of frozen where, hey, you know what it feels like when you have your clothes folded up in your, you know, you got your socks put away, you got your stuff laid out for the day. It feels good. It feels like there's something clear in your head. It's the same concept of like making your bed in the morning.

Nole (36:29.503)
Yeah.

Nole (36:46.421)
Yeah.

Kevin (36:47.538)
And I'm being off. And so I'm like, all right, let's get back to those basics. Let's literally clean house, get the stuff organized, and that way you can clean your head to then move forward.

Nole (36:58.12)
Yeah, there's definitely something about that. It just steals mental bandwidth, if you will. And it, that's another one of those funny life things. Like it feels so good when you walk back into your room and the bed's made or the other day we have a plastic bin out in front of our house that we store whatever we don't want to look at in. So there's everything in there from bike jumps to fish catching nets to

I don't even know. Sandbags and kettlebells, like everything is in there. And it was so full, I couldn't get to what I was looking for. So I pulled everything out, threw a bunch of stuff away and I rearranged it. And it felt great. It took me 30 minutes, but it was something that had been bothering me every time I went in there to get a chair out or whatever for months and months and months. And then you do that and then it feels good. And then even if I don't look in the box, but I parked the car next to the box, I think, yeah, that's all dialed right now. That little stuff.

is big. think that does eat up your bandwidth because it just lives in the back of your brain even if you're not thinking about it.

Kevin (37:57.448)
Yeah.

And it's not what I want to do. A lot of times I'm like, it's raining. Let's get outside and jump in muddy puddles. Like, let's do that. But then I realized like, well, I just kept leaving these other tasks. They keep piling up. And the house is more and more, my own personal stuff is more and more disorganized. Well, I probably should have done that so I could enjoy the other thing first. You know what mean?

Nole (38:06.209)
Yeah.

Nole (38:18.676)
Yeah, for sure. For sure. All right, dude, I got to talk about one more thing before we close this out, because this has been burning in my brain and it's unrelated to the Valley. I wanted to. I wanted to kind of work on this season, improving my VO2 max. And you got to do certain so I'm tracking with a Garmin watch and you got to do certain type of workouts to even like have that be something that it.

Kevin (38:26.536)
Yeah.

Nole (38:48.874)
tries to use an algorithm to figure out. So I was looking around and turns out the Norwegian 4x4, which you told me about probably a year ago, is like the best way to bring up your VO2 max. So I don't know how to do that. I'll do that. It's awful. So I did it a couple of times on the Echo bike at home and the Assault bike here because I love it, dude.

Kevin (39:03.418)
and the hardest. It's awful.

Kevin (39:10.478)
no, you can't do it on the eco bike. What? That's the worst piece of machinery to try to do that on.

Nole (39:19.732)
I feel like it's the best because it's painful, it's like I'm staring at my heart rate and I can very easily increase or decrease my effort. I mean, it feels terrible. Like, okay, yeah, tell me. Yeah.

Kevin (39:29.682)
All right, let me, let me back up the Norwegian four by four. It's been a studied exercise that can increase your VO two max. And the concept behind it is everybody knows like hit works out or intervals at high speed and high intensity is there, but like the shortest version of that is something like a Tabata, but they figured out that it's longer durations of the interval is better for you. So it's four minutes on three minutes off.

Nole (39:37.681)
Mm-hmm.

Kevin (39:58.942)
four times at a heart rate of above 85%.

Nole (40:02.793)
Yes, that's what I was getting to. So you probably told me that, but there's this whole time that I've been doing them, which isn't a ton, but I started doing it more frequently right now. I had it in my brain that it was simply get into the yellow zone on the my zone. And then when you cool down, you want to get down to the blue. That ain't right. Because for me, 85 is in the middle of the yellow zone. It's high. And so I was getting the bunch that I did a bunch of times where I would get like 80, 81.

Kevin (40:04.383)
So.

Kevin (40:19.412)
Hmm.

Kevin (40:22.932)
That's not right.

Yes.

Nole (40:31.006)
And I would keep it right there in the bottom of the yellow. And then for some reason today, I went and looked it up because I wanted to know more about it. And the first thing I noticed was that you got to do four minutes at 85 % or above, no higher than 95, but I'm not getting anywhere near that. And then your rest is supposed to be around 70%, which I was dropping way down into the sixties. So I was totally not even doing it. And it broke my heart. It broke my heart, Kevin.

Kevin (40:44.594)
Yeah.

No one's getting near that.

Kevin (40:56.038)
Well, I heard differently on the rest. heard it says that, I mean, you're almost for me. like to do it. The only way I do it is on the treadmill, which is because my fitness level is trash that I can get up on a run. Maybe it's like my heart rate pretty quickly.

Nole (41:13.258)
I've done on treadmill. can easily get my heart rate up there in treadmill. I don't run.

Kevin (41:16.176)
Yeah. then, it, but man, it's hard to keep that pace. and then, you know, we're trying to run the rower was miserable. The eco bike is miserable to me. The zone to work is easiest on the eco bike where you can just sit there on the eco bike and I can easily maintain like a pace of whatever 55 RPMs and I'm in the zone too. But like, man, but I'll full disclosure, I haven't done Norwegian in a while and I have,

Nole (41:19.711)
Right.

Nole (41:24.128)
Can't do the rower.

Nole (41:30.698)
Yeah, just kind of go.

Nole (41:36.416)
Right.

Kevin (41:43.642)
I will go down very low. I'm probably below 70 % while I'm resting because I won't make it the four rounds if I don't.

Nole (41:50.583)
Yeah, I actually did. So today I tried to stay up because that's green. That's the bottom of the green zone 70. And I did it for the first round. And I thought, you know what? I don't know the science on this, but yeah, I'm to be too exhausted by the end. And to me, it's actually valuable to see if I can stay in the yellow above 85 % for that. Really it's like three and a half minutes toward the end of the rounds. It's not a full four minutes because you got to get up there, but regardless.

all that time in the higher heart rate. And then I like to be able to see if I can drop into the blue in that three minutes, like the recovery time. I want to see that I can recover that fast. So I don't know that I'm going to adjust that bottom number, but I definitely now have to bump up. can't be at 80 % when the Norwegians call for 85. It's just, it doesn't work. I'm clearly just wasting workouts. There's a huge difference. Yeah, it's dramatic. Yeah.

Kevin (42:24.18)
Correct.

Kevin (42:38.496)
And dude, is a difference. There is a difference between 80 and 85. That is for sure. All right, so if you want to do this, they recommended doing it maybe once a week to start off with. And then working up to two times a week. But what I would suggest is you try to do it on like treadmill, maybe to start off with and warm up for 10 minutes and then go for it. So.

Nole (43:02.676)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Kevin (43:04.7)
And it usually takes me about 60 seconds or so to get into the 85 % range. So I'm technically running into the 85 % range for probably three minutes. And then I am straight walking at a level two, like trying to bring right. So trying to get my heart rate down. And that is an indicator of fitness if you can get your heart rate low quickly.

Nole (43:19.636)
Right, keeping your heart rate, but your heart rate stays up. Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (43:30.826)
Yeah.

Kevin (43:31.112)
But usually by round two, three, my heart rate is staying pretty elevated even during the rest, which is pretty, it's, but on the bike is brutal. Funny story. saw, Trevor graves. was a while ago, maybe six months ago or something. We met, saw each other at the gym locally and he was, I was finishing up. He's like, I just, I did the four wire on the stair master, which is means that you had to crank that thing up to like 15 to get it going, you know,

Nole (43:36.074)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (43:54.472)
Nole (43:59.381)
Yeah.

Kevin (43:59.509)
And he was walking, he's like, oh, I wanted to try that. I was like, come with me, you know? And I just watched him for the next, I made him do the four by four on that thing, it was brutal. And he's such a stud, he crushed it.

Nole (44:02.878)
Ha!

Nole (44:08.348)
Dude that's horrible. That's horrible.

Kevin (44:12.212)
But you gotta you have to have something to monitor your heart rate so you have to have a Garmin, a Myzone. We have a link for Myzone in our show notes if you guys want to look. It's like 50 % off.

Nole (44:15.594)
Right. Right.

Nole (44:21.938)
I do since you said that I actually meant to say this our my zone discount code link it's gone It doesn't work anymore. We got to get in touch with them See if we can get that run again, but a guy my station Diego again tried to go buy one and it doesn't work anymore so I got to get in touch with them, but Yeah, you do have to have a heart rate monitor for sure. All right, dude

Kevin (44:28.826)
It's dying. We're dead. Never mind. We don't have one.

Kevin (44:36.756)
Well, it's done, huh?

well sadly.

Kevin (44:45.416)
But it's kind of fun. You and I have used the my zone for years now and I think it's, it's good. It's, it's something that I like kind of having that, you know, we originally, when we worked out with Tim Kennedy and those unbelievable savages out there, we did this acid bath workout, which is very similar to the North region and everybody had, everyone's strapped up with my zones on and there's no cheating. You had to get into that red zone, which is just your

Nole (44:48.383)
I love it.

Nole (45:04.022)
It was, yeah.

Kevin (45:14.066)
max heart rate before you got and I just remember like you know you can't dog it I was about to puke after the third round or whatever I was like dry heaving in a toilet in like a little trash can in the corner trying not to embarrass ourselves in front of them but but yeah that it's it's fun it will definitely keep you honest so you're inspiring me I need I need to get back on that too because my cardio is lacking so I should probably be doing that now

Nole (45:26.634)
You

Nole (45:30.698)
Mission accomplished.

Kevin (45:42.815)
There's a JP Hillsepec who, him and Nessa did that high rocks. He's, you know, he's really in shape, but he does one long run a week. He does one like Norwegian type interval type thing. And then he does like a pace, like a run pace. hey, if you were going to do a high rocks run, like a run at that pace, you know, like, so it's like a long slow, one like race pace and then one.

Nole (45:47.05)
Mm-hmm, yeah, yeah.

Nole (45:57.994)
Hmm.

Nole (46:06.239)
Mmm.

Kevin (46:12.326)
interval thing. So if you were short on time, he's like, do that's three times a week. He obviously is in great shape. And he's done that I feel like that's a pretty solid way.

Nole (46:23.002)
I just, I can't do that much cardio. It makes me sad. Right, you need it. A lot of running, yeah.

Kevin (46:26.132)
That's a lot, but he competes in high rocks, is a lot of cardio. That is a run. I don't know how many laps they do, but I think they're at like, 0.6 or 0.7 of a mile every time. you're running six miles during that thing at a pretty good clip.

Nole (46:43.594)
Yeah, mandatory.

Kevin (46:46.738)
So how many days a week are you trying to do this in Norwegian?

Nole (46:50.496)
So far I'm doing it once a week. I haven't bumped it up yet.

Kevin (46:53.385)
solid.

That's a rough day when you see that on your calendar. You're like, I dread that the entire time until.

Nole (47:02.526)
Yeah, it's kind of depressing. The other day I had it. knew I was coming into work and I was going to do it here. And then Diego was like, Hey man, what do we get for the workout today? And I was like, sweet. I was like, let's do a circuit together. And he's like, well, what were you going to do? Said the Norwegian four by four. He's like, what's that? So then he's like, let's do that. Man. He did it though. He hung with it.

Kevin (47:04.273)
Yeah.

Kevin (47:23.08)
Good luck.

Kevin (47:27.688)
That's funny. I tried to do it on the street one time, like on a run. It doesn't work. I was like running through red lights and people. I'm like, I gotta keep my heart rate up. Out of the way.

Nole (47:31.816)
yeah. Now you can't do that.

My heart rate has to stay up. Yeah.

Kevin (47:41.919)
But as far as longevity is concerned too, the Rhonda Patrick I've quoted twice here was saying that really like a lot of people have been praising zone two and she's like, you have to put in that interval work and you have to make it harder or else there's some sort of mitochondrial function that doesn't adapt. And VO2 max is I guess one of the highest signs of longevity. So she's huge on that thing if you can do it.

Nole (47:42.134)
Uhhhh

Nole (48:06.107)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, think... Yeah, I did it once. I won't ever do it again. Yeah, it's too much.

Kevin (48:10.972)
Have you tried the rower?

Kevin (48:15.984)
miserable.

Kevin (48:20.464)
It's miserable. I can't do it.

Nole (48:22.718)
You need something, it's too much of a broken movement on the rower. There's the subtle pause at the base and at the end of the pull. I feel like you need something that you can be consistently moving. It was just too hard to...

Kevin (48:34.606)
Yeah, I've tried it twice and I couldn't finish. I worked too hard to get into the 85 % and then I was gassed and I couldn't finish the rest of the time.

Nole (48:39.624)
Yeah. And then you're too burned out. Yeah. Yeah, that does work. All right, dude, we beat this horse to death.

Kevin (48:50.374)
No, it's it's inspiring. I'm going back to basics. need to look the vertical lean works for me. You know what mean? That vertical lean diet and you brought up rice and I'm like, this is helpful for me. I'm like, yeah, I can eat meat and rice and fruit and veggies and I feel good. Let's get back on that and then let's get back on a basic training schedule. Throwing up four by four once a week. You know what mean? And you feel good. You can. That's one of those things where like if you do that consistently a week, like within a month, I'm like, I feel like I'm fitter, you know?

Nole (49:20.626)
Right. And feeling good helps when you're down in the valley, right? It helps you be motivated to do those other things. Right.

Kevin (49:23.27)
Yes, literally going to like try to clean up and organize my own stuff and then try to build in some fun, try to build in some creativity in the morning before getting into the monotonous stuff. mean, this is helpful for me. I know these things, but we have to like, I have to have my buddy remind me.

Nole (49:39.872)
I need reminders. I need reminders. I'm pushing the button.

Nole (49:49.717)
Say the thing.

Kevin (49:51.24)
This has been the Fire You Carry Podcast.

Nole (50:09.14)
We got another program coming up. It's about a month out. Links are in the show notes. Our buddy, John with Hold the Line actually had to cancel the trip that was supposed to be happening this weekend due to weather. He's going to reschedule. As soon as he does that, we'll talk about it on here. We had a good group of guys. We're to go out to that myself included. So we're looking forward to that. Really appreciate you guys listening. We'll see you next week.