277: The Dichotomy of the Fight: Hardcore Worship, Loss, and Releasing Control

In this episode of The Fire You Carry, Kevin and Nole break down the wild, beautiful chaos of the Christian hardcore scene after catching a legendary Sleeping Giant reunion show. They discuss the intense energy of the barrier, crowd vocals, and how aggressive music can serve as a genuine form of spiritual warfare.

Switching gears to the home front, Kevin opens up about a heavy and heartbreaking weekend, navigating an unexpected medical emergency with his family's beloved dog and making the agonizing call to say goodbye. Through the raw lens of grief, the guys unpack a critical lesson in fatherhood: why our instinct to shield our kids from emotional pain can actually rob them of necessary resilience, and how walking through life's hardest moments together builds lasting strength.

They wrap up the conversation discussing the challenges of releasing control as kids enter middle school, the unique perspective of staying tattoo-free in a heavily tatted subculture, and why chasing athletic longevity in your 40s keeps the spirit sharp.

In This Episode, We Discuss:

• The wild dichotomy of the Christian hardcore scene and the Sleeping Giant show.
• How aggressive praise and worship differs from traditional church settings.
• A surprise program guy sighting and the generational impact of heavy music.
• Kevin’s heartbreaking weekend: dealing with sudden loss and emergency vet realities.
• The Shield of Fatherhood: Letting our kids experience grief instead of hiding them from it.
• Learning to release control and letting your kids make their own mistakes.
• The "Four Tattooless Men" of our generation.
• Mid-life athleticism: Station skateboarding, e-foils, and 40-something kickflips.
• Fire Up Program updates and 9/11 Memorial Stair Climb venue search.

Big thank you to My Epic and Facedown Records for the use of their song "Hail" in our podcast!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dz2RZThURTU&ab_channel=FacedownRecords

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Transcript

Nole (00:00.127)
Reason to stream live to Riverside when no one is listening.

All right, here you go. Are you ready?

Kevin (00:25.036)
Welcome back to the Fire You Carry podcast. Nolsif. It's good to see you live, brother.

Nole (00:32.129)
It's good to see you as well, Kevin. G good afternoon.

Kevin (00:35.148)
Last time I saw you, we were getting bombarded by the heavy metal Christian rock show. Like that was insanity. I don't think I've seen a show of that category. Now, full disclosure, I have not gone to like a Christian hardcore show. That was the first one.

Nole (00:42.807)
Yeah.

Nole (00:54.231)
Right. Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that. And of course the night of was too chaotic and you had to get back and go to work, but I did want to ask you about that because you grew up in the music scene. You've been in bands and you've been to a lot of shows, and I wanted to know because I knew that you hadn't been to a Christian hardcore show. I wanted to know what you thought of the scene.

Kevin (01:09.388)
I'll tell you.

Kevin (01:19.264)
It was wild, dude. And I loved it. I thought it was just wild because I've been to a lot of punk shows. And a punk show is you can get wild in the pit. But this was totally different. You didn't know if somebody was jumping off stage, jumping off behind you, if you're gonna get pushed to the your doom into the stage. Like it was the wildest thing I've ever seen in my life, dude. And like if you guys haven't seen hardcore

Nole (01:25.037)
Yeah.

Nole (01:28.44)
Sure.

Yeah.

Kevin (01:47.608)
Pit is different. It's like they're dancing but they're also throwing back elbows at the same time.

Nole (01:49.519)
Totally different.

and kicks. I almost took a spin kick to the face.

Kevin (01:54.904)
So Noel, I'm gonna tell you this. Noel tells me Noel got there before me because they did like a meet and greet thing. We went to the Sleeping Giant show, which is I think one of my favorite songs is Tith Me from Sleeping Giant. And I know a lot of their other songs, but that's the one for me. And so Noel says, I'm getting there early, we're doing the meet and greet. and so when I got there, I got there probably the first band, he's like, We're at the front. And when I'm talking about the front, it's literally

Nole (02:02.445)
Sleeping giant.

Nole (02:06.595)
Yeah. Yep.

Yeah.

Kevin (02:25.186)
The front, like the front gate. You're five less than five feet away from the stage.

Nole (02:33.037)
Yeah, and this is general admission. There are no seats. This is just an open floor. They do have a barrier or a fence so that you can't get to the stage unless you jump the fence, but

Kevin (02:43.512)
So first two pants, good. And it wasn't too nutty. You could tell okay, there was some stuff. But when Sleeping Giant came on, there was this bum rush. It felt like, now I can see what it feels like to be pushed to your death. Cause I had to like brace myself against the whatever barrier that was to the stage. And cause I just felt this push of right up to the front.

Nole (02:59.279)
The crush.

Nole (03:07.438)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Kevin (03:12.598)
And then there was dudes climbing over there at any moment somebody would like jump off the stage or on top of you trying to get to the stage. And then it was just hilarious. It was just like, Get back, get back, I love Jesus, get back. It was awesome. It was an awesome vibe, dude. But I it was pretty w it's the dichotomy of like there was real preaching going on on stage. And then the crowd was overwhelmingly Christian, I thought.

Nole (03:28.847)
Nole (03:35.491)
Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (03:41.974)
And then it went into like the hardest music you've ever heard. It was just this wild dichotomy. It was wild. I loved it.

Nole (03:47.17)
Yeah. And people are getting pushed and slammed. Guys guys are literally diving off the stage into the crowd and trying to crowd surf over the top of you, kicking you in the face. It is a very interesting it's a very interesting scene. We I knew from experience, because we went to a ton of these shows probably about that's probably been about six or eight years ago now we were going to these type of shows regularly. I knew from experience that

I'm a sing along guy. I like to sing along. I don't get in the pit and do the the quote unquote hardcore dancing, which is very different than moshing. If you've seen moshing, it's not the same thing. So I don't do that. but I love to s I love to sing along. I'm one of the sing along guys. And in this this scene, this hardcore scene, and which I only know about from the Christian aspect of it. I haven't really I've been to a couple of hardcore shows that weren't Christian bands, but they do a lot of crowd vocals.

Kevin (04:16.898)
Yeah.

Nole (04:43.225)
There's a lot of singing along that goes on and especially for Sleeping Giant, like no other band that I've ever seen is like that. But everyone is trying to get to the front because they're singing along and there's an aspect where the you know, the guy is gonna come down to the barrier probably and take his microphone and put it in the crowd and you might get to sing into the mic. So everybody's trying to get there. So yeah, a hundred percent. Being on that barrier for me, especially that first night when I had Heather and

Elizabeth and Avery next, it was like you kind of need a little bit of that protection. 'Cause if you're just a couple of people back, you're just getting crushed. You're kind of floating because you're getting pushed up against the front people in front of you and behind you and you could lift your feet up and not fall. I mean, that's an exaggeration, but but yeah, dude, it gets so wild and

Kevin (05:27.596)
No, I saw. I saw you definitely doing a couple of things, sacrificing your own body, like wrapping three women around you while there was people just dropping on. But it was no, it's really funny, is like you see a punk show or an any other show. If somebody like floats up or tries to get up on stage, they try to make themselves like a I don't know, trying to be seen or something like this. These guys were knowing that they're gonna get tossed over the rail.

And they would just be like thankful to everybody to help land on their feet and then run right back into the ground. It wasn't like they were trying to do something nefarious on stage or do something which I've seen, you know, you see quite a bit. It was just like that was it was just a known thing that they just get floated. Hopefully they don't die. And then people help them out that they don't die. You probably get kicked in the head and then you're just gonna go right back out and do it again.

Nole (05:57.849)
Yeah.

No. Right. Yeah.

Nole (06:16.793)
Dude, some of those guys that were going over the top and down into that little like hole in between the barrier and the stage were going in head first and fast. And they always pop back up and and run away. But good lord, it's dangerous.

Kevin (06:28.502)
What was really cool to me is that I I realized probably about three quarters of where they sh there sh there was one like major rush through one of the songs and so I got pushed a wet like more towards the back, just the way it got pushed. And then I ended up kind of like in the pit thing and I like, there's no way I'm getting back. There's no way I'm getting back up front. So I did the old man thing and went and stood in the back, which was really cool because I had an I like an ad advantage point where I know

Nole (06:42.254)
Yeah.

Back in there, yeah.

Kevin (06:56.396)
It was easy to see you 'cause you had you were right at the front. You had a sleeveless shirt on and you have you know, anyways. But it was to me, it was really cool to watch you and the fam and just like just to watch you and your ailment. You knew every song, you were screaming at your at your lungs, and I have I think Avery took a video, I tried to get it, but it was just getting crushed of like Tommy Green at one point recognized you.

Nole (07:02.561)
Yeah. It's hot in there. Mohawk.

Kevin (07:24.736)
and knew that you were singing every s every word to every song and like gave you the mic. And it was so rad. It was this a cool moment, dude. Where it's like, I think a couple of times they were like, you're just singing your hearts out. And that's why if you guys haven't noticed, Noel's voice is a wee bit raspy. He completely lost

Nole (07:42.487)
I lost my voice a week ago and it's not back. Yeah, that was a super fun moment, man. It

Kevin (07:47.139)
But more than anything it was just cool to watch my boy, like a buddy, like in his element. Like it's cool to watch, you know, like somebody in his element or in his world in a subculture or whatever it may be. Like and that was really cool to watch. You know what I mean? It was super fun.

Nole (08:02.467)
Yeah. I just dude, I just love it. I'm I've always been somebody that sings along to music, whether I'm in the car at home or anywhere. I learn I got that from my parents. And the cool thing, there's a lot of music that I know that I can sing along to that I don't have any like real attachment to. I just it's just a song that I like. you know, a good Teddy Swim song or something right now. Like it's just good music. But with that music, with Sleeping Giant and other bands like that, it's

Kevin (08:24.878)
Mm, here is a man.

Nole (08:31.767)
It's literally it's praise and worship music, even though most people would listen to it and they can't hear it because it's so angry and there's a lot of screaming. But for me, there's that deeper level where when you're at the show, I mean, you can feel it. You can feel that that crowd is all there for the same reason. They all love Jesus. They're praising God. And it's a different, it's a very different way to do that than we're used to in church. But if you took the lyrics for a lot of the songs, not all of them.

But if you took the ones that are more worship songs and you took just took just the lyrics and read you'd be like, yeah, it's a good worship song. You just add some guitars and some blast beats and, you know, some guys screaming to the mics, it's totally different thing. But yeah, I love it. I have to tell you, go ahead.

Kevin (09:14.252)
What's what's cool about go ahead, go ahead.

Nole (09:17.999)
No, I wanna hear what you were saying.

Kevin (09:19.5)
No, I think what's cool about it as I'm like growing in faith is like I think I in in the beginning I always thought you just had to be that greeter at church, which is in the the kind of the Christian dork dude in the I always say in the khaki pants and the Hawaiian shirt or something. It's like, good morning to you you know no, it wasn't that. And you see a room full of dudes, you know, with tats and mohawks and whatever, that are also praising Jesus that you don't have there are a Christian warriors out there. There is a different vibe and it doesn't have to be the cookie cutter thing that you think about

Nole (09:28.526)
Yeah.

Kevin (09:49.303)
I always thought that I just think I I think it's a very cool thing that you know what I mean. I don't think Jesus was pacifist by any means and I think there are some warriors out there and it's just a different way to express that, to worship, to is a very cool way because it's not it's not everyone doesn't have to be in that cookie cutter mold if that makes sense.

Nole (10:07.629)
Yeah, absolutely. And if you go read the lyrics to Sleeping Giants Tithamy and then just picture a room full of I don't know how many people fit in that venue, but hundreds of people all singing that song at the top of their lungs, that's worship, I think. It f it feels like it.

Kevin (10:21.198)
For sure. It's funny, I sent a video during the show of just just absolute chaos going on to Kenobi and you and me are doing something and I sent it to Mike Kenobi and he's like, man, I think I'm gonna stick to Hillsong Worship or something. It is pretty wild.

Nole (10:40.289)
dude. It is so wild. The second night was even more wild than the first, if you can believe it. And I got I just got two things and then we'll move on to the next. But the first night before you got there and before the show started, I I said to my wife who was standing next to me, I said, It's funny, every time we come to one of these shows, I feel like I should see people that I know because it's such a big crowd and it's kind of a weird niche of music.

But I never do. We don't go to enough shows that I've like made friends with other people that are quote in the scene. But on the second night, as we're walking out, there's one guy, every the entire crowd is walking out, and I see one guy going the opposite direction, coming right at me. And I'm like, That's Fernando Felix. He's a program guy. He he came out at class seven and he works here now for us. He didn't when he came out to the class. So that was super rad to see him. We

Kevin (11:27.862)
Hey, Fernando. That's awesome. And LA County Fireman, yeah.

Nole (11:38.234)
We had a sweaty embrace, gave up gave each other a burrow hug and tried to talk, but I'd lost my voice. And but it was super cool to see him there. Very rad to see a program guy in the wild. I love when that happens. But the second thing I have to tell you about, dude, and this is my second favorite part of the entire two nights, because we obviously there were two nights, Friday and Saturday. But Saturday night, the band that played right before Sleeping Giant, they're called Dynasty. They played their set.

Kevin (11:43.382)
Mm-hmm.

I love it.

Nole (12:07.859)
And they're a good band. I don't really know any of their songs. I don't listen to them too much except for I've seen them at shows a bunch of times. Good dudes preaching in between songs, you know, the whole thing. Very, very much believers and very cool guys. But at the end of their set, the guy goes, Hey, we got one more song for you. How many of you in the crowd are over 40? Tons of hands go up, right? Because Sleeping Giant was, you know, their twenty year old band. And he's like, All right. He said something like

Kevin (12:17.358)
Mm.

Nole (12:37.143)
You guys are gonna know this one. This is a generational song. And I'm thinking, dude, nobody we don't know your back catalog of like old music. Like we're here for sleeping giant. I you guys are rad, respect, but I don't know any of your old songs, is my thought. And then they played I Will Be Heard by Hate Breed, which is it's just like the the pivotal hardcore song of like my that's ti my generation.

And the crowd went the dude it was insane. Like I was again, I was up on the front. And of course, one of the vocalists came and got on the fence literally right in front of Avery, who I was protecting with my arms on the barrier. So he's like right in front of us. And at one point I had two guys, one on each shoulder, like trying to get to the dude to sing into the mic. Somebody staged over a over the top of the guy singing, and he landed on my face and like

Kevin (13:17.24)
Mm.

Nole (13:31.103)
It was it was crazy, dude. But it was so much fun. I absolutely love that song and so did everybody else in the crowd. So it was very cool.

Kevin (13:36.569)
Dude, there was a video of it because I was on the Instagram after the sh of show and and my algorithm started because I was looking at s you know, sleeping giant reels and different stuff. And it this guy was like he said the exact same thing. He was an older guy standing in the back saying when they played this hate breed song, this place went ballistic and there's a video and if you could see it that you could see you just getting bombarded at this moment, which is hilarious.

Nole (13:40.099)
Yeah, you found the video. Yeah.

Nole (14:02.201)
Yeah, there was literally a moment where I had enough weight on my body that I was like, if if I if this gets any heavier, my legs are gonna buckle. Like it was that crazy. And I'm just locked onto the rail and I'm thinking, I can't I can't quit and let go because Avery is right in front of me and she's a tiny little thing. So I was just protecting her and it was so fun.

Kevin (14:12.14)
dude. Dude.

Kevin (14:19.96)
She'd be crushed.

Kevin (14:24.748)
You know what it made me think of? Like, I don't often think about this, but there is a battle for your soul. There's there's a spiritual battle going on right now for your soul, right? And it's like I think it I don't think of that often, but when I'm going into battle or I wanna do a hard workout or whatever, I'm not typically putting on Hillsong or Forrest Frank, who I both I love both of their stuff, right? And it was just like, hey, there were people out there recognizing

Nole (14:31.097)
Yeah.

Nole (14:49.239)
Yeah, good stuff.

Kevin (14:54.69)
Like, hey, there is a battle for your soul, and this is the type of music that you would want to go into battle with, or that's something that would if if that you know what I mean, that it just kind of brought that up, like, we're in a fight here. You know what I mean? We're in a fight. We're in a fight here, you know what I mean? And it's my own sin, it's my own my own addictions, my own things that are taking me out. Those are the cracks in my armor. And like listening to the type of music means like, no, we're gonna fight back. I'm gonna make right decisions.

Nole (15:05.699)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (15:22.126)
I'm gonna you know what I mean? It was like it's it felt like that. Like dude, this is fighting music.

Nole (15:23.117)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah, totally. Yeah, when you're singing about the Sleeping Giant has a song about being sober and

There's a there's lines in there where he says, be sober, be vigilant, or be consumed. And I just feel like that type of anthem, that type of creed, like if you're not really screaming that, it's not I don't know, it doesn't feel as real. And again, worship in church is good, it's awesome. But I will tell you this, and then we can move on.

This type of experience did kind of change the way I look at worship in church, where sometimes I'll be in church and we'll be singing a song and it'll be talking about how, you know, I'm l I fall on my knees or, you know, that type of language. And or it talks about singing at the top of your lungs, and I always feel a little bit bummed out because we're not actually doing that. And in church, you can't, right? If you go in church and you start screaming like,

Kevin (16:25.954)
Hmm. You're a little more reserved, yeah.

Nole (16:30.145)
And maybe I just need to go to a more Pentecostal church. I don't know, but but it's so different, to be in an environment where I mean, you can hear my voice. I sang my lungs out completely. Probably damaged my voice forever. But anyway, it's an interesting dichotomy. And definitely something I would recommend if you ever get a chance to go. I told a g I was in a conversation with a guy next to me, him and he was there with his son, flew in from Arizona, and we were standing together for an hour before the show started. So

Kevin (16:48.62)
Yeah it is.

Nole (17:00.247)
One of the things we both were talking about was that with that type of music, you can show people Sleeping Giant and most of the time they'll be like, yeah, that's pretty cool. Or they'll just be like, That's not for me. But if you take somebody to a show and and let them experience that environment and that experience, they're they're going to be in, like almost across the board because it's it's such a different thing. But you have to go. And maybe the first time you go, don't go to the very front. You just stand in the back.

Kevin (17:21.206)
Yes. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (17:29.806)
You're going to the front. I I thought it was a great experience. It was interesting having both experiences 'cause like if you remember Kat Von D, who's like this famous I think she was in the she's some sort of tattoo artist or famous for T V or something.

Nole (17:30.927)
But if you come with me, we're going to the front. Yeah. It was so fun to it was so fun to have you there.

Nole (17:42.395)
yeah, Cat Von E.

Nole (17:48.666)
Yeah, my my wife and daughter and sis her sister were talking about. I guess she had a show on TV where she would like do tattoos or whatever. I didn't know who she was.

Kevin (17:53.239)
Yeah, she was yeah. But I I had to look it up afterwards, but I I did remember her on the tattoo show. She's like a famous tattoo artist. But I think she was into like the occult and like wild stuff and has recently within the last f five years hadn't converted to Christianity and I think was in an Orthodox church. but standing in the back, I was looking her up and like, yeah, she had like publicly announced that like she was

Nole (18:09.07)
Darkness.

Mm.

Kevin (18:23.564)
discarding her books on witchcraft and the occult and moving over to the Christianity and then even went even further and went into this like orthodox. And there was these orthodox, I guess you call priests that were in full robes in the back with the hats on and stuff. And it was just it was just really funny to see because you would not see that at a no effect show or Pennywise or the ones that I'm hate breed or one of those and it was it was just

Nole (18:37.582)
Yeah.

Kevin (18:49.386)
It was just very cool to see. It was just very cool to see just the randomness of that whole thing, but overall totally positive.

Nole (18:55.319)
Yeah. Night two, you how they were bringing up the families and the families stand on stage in the corners. That night two, God he said that guy's name, I can't remember. But the guy who's Tommy Green, the lead singer of Sleeping Giant, his his priest. I guess they do call him priests. I don't know. But he's orth he's in an Orthodox church. Anyway, he was up on stage standing standing in the corner. So it was that he's just up there screaming at the mic and over here his his father or whatever his name was.

Kevin (19:00.375)
Yes.

Kevin (19:16.721)
wow.

Kevin (19:22.35)
Yeah yeah. In like full orthodox robe and regalia.

Nole (19:24.013)
With the full regalia on.

Bobbing his head, taking pictures, like pretty cool. Very, very weird. Very different. It was awesome. Yeah.

Kevin (19:30.434)
Yeah, that was pretty cool. Super fun experience. Totally fun experience. I just think that there's something for everybody in Christianity and I think that was a very cool thing to experience for sure.

Nole (19:41.847)
Yeah, I like that. All right, dude. So when we just were but when we were just getting on, you said you said that you had you had a tough task to do. Let's switch gears. You you did something tough yesterday. What'd you do?

Kevin (19:52.023)
Yeah.

Yeah, so we we went on I'm currently on the A V right now, which is for anyone that don't know, we can take an annual vacation every year and this year we're doing in the summer 'cause my kids are off in the summer and so we did this annual trip to all the thirteens guys does you does a reunion down to the river and there was tons of the guys out there and all the kids and it's so fun because some guys bring boats. Stevie Miller rents jet skis for everybody and his only rule is

Nole (19:58.222)
Mm.

Kevin (20:23.852)
Which is in insanely expensive, I'm sure, to have jet skis for five days. And his only rule is that they just don't sit on the shore and so those things gotta constantly be out. And you're just nothing but making memories. You know, it's brutally hot, but like, you know, you're towing the kids and doing with j with and doing the tubing and the jet skis and it's just a blast. It's super fun. And then tons of hanging out, with just families and telling stories and campfire stuff and making s'mores. It's a great time. So

Nole (20:27.855)
Probably.

They gotta get used. That's cool.

Kevin (20:52.738)
But it was quite a trip. It was like a hundred and ten degrees out there. We drove back. We brought our dog cold. It's in the sixties. It's gotta be in the low sixties, so Colorado River. it was very refreshing to be in the water. But we brought our dog, which the we debated on bringing our dog because he's ten years old and he he kind of a lot to manage, but he had the time of his life. He was just

Nole (20:56.345)
Ooh. What's the water what's the water temp at the river? I've never been out there. wow. Wow. That's shocking. Yeah.

Kevin (21:21.004)
chasing balls in the water and people squirting him with squirt guns and he just running around like a free animal should be. He's just had a great time. But we drove back five hours back home and you know after a long trip and you got a car packed full of stuff, it's always like a very like we're just exhausted, right? And I started noticing like, hey, the dog wasn't just acting himself, maybe and I'm like, Yeah, he's just tired, you know. He's just tired. He moves out and

Nole (21:28.142)
Yeah.

Nole (21:40.493)
yeah.

Nole (21:45.657)
Hm. Yeah.

Kevin (21:50.937)
But when we woke up yesterday, you can tell he was definitely something off. He wasn't eating or drinking. He started dry heaving. And I'm looking up the symptoms. If anyone knows like what bloat is in a dog, it's like their stomach can turn and it's a hundred percent fatal. There's some some technical term for it. but once the stomach turns, like it's a hundred percent fatal. And

Nole (21:57.508)
Hmm. no.

Kevin (22:19.65)
There's a couple of things. So like I I'm looking at it, I'm trying to see and it's the last thing you want to do if you ever gone to the vet. I'm sure there's good people that are doing good things, but it always costs us thousands of dollars when we go to the vet. We don't have the pet insurance and it's always like I feel like I don't know if this is accurate or not, but they take advantage of the love that you have unconditionally for these animals. And that, you know, everywhere you see is like

Nole (22:32.846)
Yeah.

Kevin (22:46.328)
things for credit, credit, credit, credit like pet care of this and like how you can finance these things.

Nole (22:50.805)
yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Because you know most people are walking in that they can't afford it.

Kevin (22:55.414)
So I had to have like some real hard conversations. The girls are exhausted, my wife's exhausted and we still have everything in bags and we're trying to like put things in and but I'm like, hey, I'm reading, you know, my basic stuff online about what his symptoms are and it's not looking good. He's a ten year old dog. I feel like I can see him bloating and he's done the thing where the dog went he's never done this before. He ran out to the corner of the the very back corner.

Nole (23:12.579)
Yeah.

Kevin (23:24.766)
of our property in the backyard and like hid. And if you know about dogs, that is not a good sign.

Nole (23:27.693)
Hmm. Yep. Yeah, he's going getting ready to die.

Kevin (23:33.793)
And so I you know, none of the kids n and and the wife wanted to take him to the vet because they know like, hey, this is not you know, let's just watch him for a while, let's see how he does, he just needs rest, blah, blah, blah. And I knew that this was painful for him and that I knew that if we take him to the vet, they're gonna say, This is fatal. He needs to have either some sort of surgery. And so finally I had to convince the family, like, I am taking him to the emergency vet.

Nole (23:47.118)
Yeah.

Nole (24:03.524)
Hmm.

Kevin (24:04.566)
And that more than likely he's not gonna make it. Which was horrific. It's horrific. He's a part of our family. This dog loves us unconditionally. He's on the girls' bed every night. They've grown up with the dog. He's been a good dog. He's been a great and and I think a a great companion for the wife. I'm gone at work all the time. The girls are at school. He follows her around incessantly and it's just if you've ever had a dog, no they just love you unconditionally.

Nole (24:06.923)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (24:18.596)
Yeah.

Nole (24:25.155)
Hmm.

Nole (24:28.664)
Yeah.

Nole (24:33.796)
Yeah.

Kevin (24:34.358)
And so sure enough we go into the vet. He seems pretty it's like a c that's such a cold experience. They walk in with a credit card machine in hand and says, I we will take a look at the dog. We'll do x rays on it. And if you want to do that, that's four hundred and seventy dollars right now. And you have to give your card before they would do anything. It's not like, we'll give you the bill at the end. Like they'll piecemail you through this process. It's

Nole (24:45.657)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (24:54.254)
Yeah.

Nole (25:02.243)
Yeah.

Kevin (25:02.486)
It's absurd. I was g I was frustrated about that, but of course I give him the card. He confirms the worst. The doctor comes back in and he goes, Yep, his stomach has completely twisted. It's turned. It's over eleven thousand dollars plus multiple days in probably in the ICU and the outlook is not great. Maybe like a forty, fifty percent chance after that surgery.

Nole (25:23.095)
For eleven thousand dollars.

Kevin (25:25.43)
And so I hate to say this, but we don't have an extra eleven thousand dollars, you know what I mean? And that finances are definitely part of the care for the dog. And I love the dog and he's been a part of our family, but I can't afford eleven thousand dollars to do the surgery that has a forty to fifty four percent chance of success. You know, and he's already a ten year old dog, so I factor all those things in, but I had to ask for some time and then I have my daughter and my wife with me and we have to talk about

Nole (25:48.045)
Yeah.

Kevin (25:54.637)
what this means. And so they're like, what does that mean? And of course some of the kids don't understand the financial impact and long term, like whether he's gonna be viable or not. And so I have to explain to them that just unexpectedly, as like the literally the last thing you want to do when you get home from a trip is to go put your dog down who just had the greatest week of his life, you know? And so we had to make that decision and it's it was it was heartbreaking.

Nole (26:00.848)
Right.

Nole (26:12.366)
Right.

Kevin (26:21.922)
They did give us time with the dog. They did make him feel more comfortable, gave him some pain medicine and we were able to like there was laughter and there was crime. We're laughing at all the stupid things that he would do and all the fun things. and it was actually ended up kinda being beautiful. He this dog would it was a big dog. You know. But he was able to like lay on harmony while they

Nole (26:46.826)
Yeah.

Kevin (26:50.69)
they gave them the final medicine to like give away. And it was really hard and I really debated whether my girls should be there at the time, but they're eleven and thirteen and said they wanted to be there. And so they did. And you know, we got to say our goodbyes and it was really, really heartfelt. And even when we you know, we were there for hours. Even when we got back, there's so many things in your daily routine at home, like

Nole (26:51.507)
man.

Mm.

Nole (27:00.11)
Mm.

Nole (27:04.029)
yeah.

Nole (27:13.956)
Yeah.

Kevin (27:18.794)
Hey, did you take the dog out for potty before at night? And the first thing this morning when we did we're all like, you know, looking for the dog to take him out. And it's just one of those things that just like it's it's definitely a ripple effect and it's it's a really somber, sad thing. He's part of our lives.

Nole (27:22.297)
Right.

Nole (27:35.479)
Yeah. Man, I'm so sorry. That's really tough. I

Yeah, I've been there. I'm sure most of our listeners have been there too. It's such a hard thing. I mean, it's it's beautiful that your daughters wanted to be a part of it. And as hard as that is, I know you know that that's a really good experience for them. As hard as it is, like it's it's better for them to see that and experience it than just to have you go off and do it because it's a reality of life. But I mean, obviously as dad, it's really hard.

Because you want to protect your daughters and then even your wife from that type of pain. But then when you're confronted with something like that where, yeah, he's only got a forty percent chance to make it after the surgery. and also it's eleven thousand dollars. That's so that's so tough because he is a part of your family. And so you do feel that love and that connection. But at the same time, he is also he's a dog. He's not a person. And and so there are those considerations that are made.

Kevin (28:24.942)
Absurd.

Nole (28:39.883)
And it is different, I think. And not everybody agrees with this. Not everybody thinks this. I I do know I do know there are folks out there who would go eleven thousand dollars into debt to do their best. And I'm not gonna sit here and tell you whether that whether I think that's right or wrong. I think that's a personal choice. And but for me, I'm I'm definitely in line with you where it's like, no, this is something we can't afford. It's not giving them a good chance.

Kevin (28:50.606)
I'm sure.

Nole (29:06.049)
What's his quality of life beyond that? Even if he does make it, he's had ten good years. He just had the best week of his life. This is tragic. There's I mean, there's I do think there's a right answer, but it's one of those things where it's like both of these options are bad. I either go eleven thousand dollars into debt or we say goodbye to our our precious friend. It's so it's so tough. So tough.

Kevin (29:20.568)
They're bad.

Kevin (29:24.738)
Hmm. There were some interesting things that came out of it, like this is just her initial reaction, but my wife was like, I don't ever want to get a dog again. I don't want to go through this pain again because I love so much. And it's that whole thing, it's better to love and lost than to never love at all. You know what mean? And I don't know, I was I'm I'm like, no, like, hey, I'm I'm so glad. He brought a lot of joy and happiness and love into our life that

Nole (29:37.485)
Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (29:44.217)
Yeah.

Kevin (29:54.395)
that yes. But she you know, she's saying, Hey, we've we've had to put down two dogs in it in the span of you know, the girls two their thirteen year old lives, you know, and it's very hard and she's like, I don't want this is so emotional, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm almost positive we're gonna get another dog. Not maybe not today, maybe not in the next few months, but I'm almost positive but but I I do think it's better to love and loss than not love at all. You know what I mean?

Nole (30:05.773)
Yeah.

Nole (30:14.509)
Right. Right.

Nole (30:24.089)
Yeah.

Kevin (30:24.214)
And it makes me think of like, you know, people that are questioning whether they have kids or not and like, we're it'll change our whole lives and we have dual income, no kids, we're the dinks, you know, and like you know those people that like like we can d just walk out the door and go get sushi and fly to Bali if we want to, you know. But I do think that this is life. This is this is even though it's the worst part of it, this is some this is the good stuff of life. It was like

Nole (30:28.719)
Mm.

Nole (30:42.029)
Right.

Kevin (30:53.162)
is having those o those those experiences, you know, like kids change you forever. Like having a dog and loving the dog and having to put the dog down is like is somet it's part of the life. It's the circle of life. It's s something that I don't I'm not glad to experience, but it is one of those experiences, you know, that I feel like you walk through the kids and I was there to comfort them in the time and we are present. You know, I it's hard to explain, but I think some of those the challenges

Nole (30:58.958)
Yes.

Kevin (31:23.22)
Is the juice, is the good stuff?

Nole (31:26.251)
It is. It really is and

I mean, inevitably, if you live your life trying to avoid those challenges, whether it's owning a dog or really primarily doing something like having kids or even getting married, right? There's a lot of young people out there who are debating whether they're ever gonna do that. Like if you're not doing that stuff, are you are you really living a life? And of course I'm you know, again, I'm not gonna sit here and say everybody has to get married and have kids.

But I do think that for most of us, that is the path and that is what you should be doing. Is it gonna be hard? Yeah. It's gonna be really hard. Is it gonna change your life entirely? Entirely. Your life is not gonna look the same. But guess what? You're not gonna be sad about it. You're not gonna, you're not gonna look back on it once your kids have moved out of the house or once you've had to put your dog down. And just like what you just said, you're not gonna look back at it and go, man, I wish we'd never gotten the dog because there's so many good memories and so much.

Kevin (32:06.53)
Yeah, real hard.

Kevin (32:11.778)
Guaranteed.

Nole (32:29.315)
happiness and joy, and even in the moment of saying goodbye, that's such a powerful life lesson and experience that you can grow through, that your daughters and your wife can grow through and become stronger people, more empathetic people, so that the next time they hear that their friend had to do the same thing, it doesn't mean nothing to them because they've never had a dog that they loved. It means something to them and they can be there for that person. And it changes everything. And it's harder, but we know we know that the harder path is

Kevin (32:44.502)
Mm.

Nole (32:58.199)
It's the right path. Narrow is the way. It's just it's the way to go.

Kevin (33:00.982)
There always the way. It reminds me of our our friend Jason Teeter, who is the wildest man on the planet and had had gotten married later, you know what I mean? But he was an adventurer. I mean, he's climbed mountains, backpacked all over the place, rode his bicycle across the United States, tame Mustangs, he does shipwreck dives off the coast of Alaska. I mean, like that all this stuff. And he talked to like this

Nole (33:09.359)
True.

Kevin (33:26.71)
I forget the guy's name, but he's written books and he's like the adventurer of all adventurers. He's like the guy that Jason looked up to. And he said, The greatest adventure of life and the hardest and the most challenging thing that I've ever done is have children.

And that changed Jason where they tried to they had they now have two children and I remember talking to him and saying the dude was right, you know, out of all the insane adventures and challenges that they had, this is the biggest and it never ends. You know you know, and then I think about that like it doesn't sometimes it doesn't need to be some grandiose thing, but like having a dog or having children grounds you, you know what I mean? And it doesn't seem like it's this grandiose thing of climbing K two.

Nole (33:45.531)
uhhuh.

Nole (33:55.106)
Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (34:09.49)
Or doing a deep sea wreck off of Alaska or something. but the daily challenges that come up with that are the ones that are like I think you look back and say those are the most rewarding, you know, or the most interesting.

Nole (34:24.269)
I look I d I was looking through photographs today, old program photographs from like two years ago, and I f I found this picture of my brother. Can't really see it in the camera, but it's my brother, Edward, in the ice bath. And Jason is now next to him because they were friends from previously. We went on a shooting trip one time together.

Kevin (34:29.933)
Mm.

Kevin (34:43.531)
Yeah.

Nole (34:45.453)
Jason is down next to him and he's, you know, he's like you can tell he's telling him not to get out. He's got his hand in the blade. You know, he's got the blade hand going right next to right next to Edward's face. Like if you try to get out of here, yeah. Yeah. I love Jason. But the thing one of the things that I just thought about when you were talking about that about climbing K two and trips to Bali versus having kids, we don't really have much in this temporary short life that outlives us. Our

Kevin (34:51.414)
Mm.

Kevin (34:55.01)
I will stop you.

He's a man.

Nole (35:14.957)
Our experience is stuff like that. You die, and no one cares or even knows that you went on a trip to Bali or that you were a world traveler, that you climb K2. The people that that were close to you, they might remember that for a season, maybe a generation, if it was super rad, the things that you did, but then it's gone. The only thing that you can leave behind are are your kids. That's the only way that we can impact the future is by having the having kids and

And raising them right and then sending them off into the world to go do whatever it is that they're gonna do. Everything else is very temporary. And I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with world traveling and Bali and you know, climbing K2. Like those are all good things. But it shouldn't hold you back from actually doing the stuff that that really matters long term. Cause that stuff doesn't. I mean, really in the grand scheme of things, it doesn't. It's fun, but it doesn't matter. Not really.

Kevin (35:56.514)
Yeah, great stuff.

Kevin (36:11.424)
Yeah. And like the the biggest thing that I got away with I I came away with is the is trying to shield like you were literally shielding your daughter from injury at the sleeping giant show. You know what I mean? And that's completely appropriate, right? 'Cause she could physically get injured. Right. but try I've always tried to shield the girls emotionally from things and they've had loss. Like we've lost my mom, we've lost pops, we've lost

dogs, you know, and you know, they're at an age now that they're like, I don't want to be shielded from this and I wanted to feel this. I wanna be here. And it was a really important lesson to me that like like I don't need to shield them from everything. Like they're old enough, cognizant enough to know that they had their own personal relationship. You know what I mean? And that they wanted to say goodbye and they wanted to be there.

Nole (36:48.087)
Mm.

Kevin (37:08.288)
And like they were telling me, like, no dad, I'm not walking away. And I was like, 'Cause normally what do we do as dads are like, All right, I'm staying here, I'm gonna put the dog down with the bed. You guys and I said that. I said, You guys go outside, I'll deal with this. And I'll s you know what I mean? And it was the intention was to shield them. And like immediately like, nope, no, I'm here. And I didn't like argue and I was like, Okay, you know what this means, right? It's gonna be challenging and then but it was a good lesson that I can't

Nole (37:11.567)
Mm.

Nole (37:18.509)
Right. You guys go home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (37:24.974)
Right.

Nole (37:28.569)
Hmm.

Kevin (37:37.165)
Like I don't wanna give them strife. I don't wanna give them struggle and I don't I want them to have a better upbringing than I did, which I know they already are. They're already having they already have an easier path. But I also know that they have to have some sort of struggle. They have to have some sort of pain and resiliency and how you the way you get through that is what is gonna be their ultimately their best tool for life and resiliency. And that I realize like, hey, they they wanna be here.

They're gonna feel this pain and that this is probably good for them in the long run.

Nole (38:12.491)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, dude. That's spot on. It's such a good lesson. It's not the same thing, but I mean, even in the context of Avery at the show, night one, I knew that it was going to be rauco. Night two, I knew it was going to be really wild because of how because the the first night was the most wild show I'd ever been to. And I asked the girls, like, Do you want to be in the front? And Avery's Yeah, I'm in. And

I knew that that meant potential injury for her. And I could have said, you know what is dad, you're too s you're too small. You're a girl. You need to be in the background. I'm like, all right. Well, you know what you're getting into. You just experienced night one. So and that's back to letting your kids climb trees and, you know, do the things. We've had that talk before. But it's so much more impactful when you're talking about what you're talking about, where there's that that pain of life and as dad, they're

Kevin (38:43.79)
Mm, for sure.

Kevin (38:55.918)
Totally.

Nole (39:06.443)
is that tendency to go, No, I'm gonna shield you from this, I'm gonna protect you from this. But there also is that moment which is so beautiful that your girls are there at eleven and thirteen where they just they just intrinsically know. And that's that's because of how you and Harmony have raised You know, they just intrinsically know, no, the right thing to do is to go through this, to go through this pain and to do it together as a family. I mean, that's just beautiful, dude. I can't I'm sorry that you guys had to go through that, but

I think it speaks a lot to you and your family and the way that you are leading that family, that you guys handled it the way you did. And I can't wait to see what kind of wild puppy you guys get approximately six months from now. Watch out, couch and shoes.

Kevin (39:42.55)
No, it's kinda no, no, no, no.

Yeah. But there's like a there's a weird shift dynamic in parenting that we're now in the middle school age where like, you know, early stage you have to repeat yourself and basically control every ounce of their day, right? It's like brush your teeth, wash your hands, I don't know, I don't know, do all the things, right? And now it's like I'm learning miserably how to like release control. You know what I mean? Because we're out in even like even we're out

Nole (40:13.624)
Yeah.

Kevin (40:18.068)
in the hundred and ten degrees sun and you know, I don't want them to get skin cancer and get sunburned the whole time, but I'm like, hey, sunscreen this, sure, put your shirt on, put and they're just rolling their eyes and like, Dad, I already did it. You know what I mean? And so it's like there but it it brings up this like control and and release of control and letting them have a leash and put guide rails on, which I think is it's it's a ever changing dynamic thing. I remember that and I

Nole (40:32.683)
Yeah.

Kevin (40:47.51)
I remember one one of the guys that I admire the most, his big Joe Flahaven. He's Joe Flahaven's dad. He's this epic waterman from Northern California I've talked about. He's in his nineties. But when we were young, we were like nineteen, we were at home one at their house and he was like nineteen and he was telling his dad like he saved six grand or whatever. And that's the entirety of his net worth he had saved and he's gonna buy this broken down truck.

Nole (40:52.132)
Mm.

Kevin (41:17.144)
From the 60s, you know what I mean? And that doesn't really run, that doesn't really do this. And his dad, and I was already like, You're an idiot. Why would you buy a truck that doesn't run with all the money you have? You know? And his dad knew it it was a moronic move too, right? But he was like, Well, what do you think? You think it's gonna work out for you? You know, you live in a dorm room, you know what I mean, and you don't really have tools, you know what I mean? Like, how do you think that's gonna work? And

Nole (41:34.446)
Yeah.

Kevin (41:45.931)
He just let Joe make the decision, right? And like, of course it failed miserably. He brought the truck, he lost his ass financially on it, it never worked out, you know, and had to sell it at a loss of scrap or something like that. And I remember years later talking to Big Joe, like, hey, why did you let him buy that truck? He's like, 'Cause he has to learn his own lesson. You think he's gonna listen to me? And he's like, he has to learn. He'll never learn from me. I know that's a terrible decision, but I

Nole (41:47.971)
Yeah.

Nole (42:07.863)
Mm.

Kevin (42:15.348)
He is a young man, he saved his money, he has a dream, he's gotta learn his own lessons. And I thought that was like fatherhood at its finest. You know what mean? Like and I I wonder like now my girls are getting the middle school ages, they are making decisions. They're going to Camp Pondo next week by themselves, you know what I mean? Which is up by you, up in Green Valley Lake and

Nole (42:20.737)
man.

Nole (42:25.719)
It's really good. Yeah.

Nole (42:36.911)
Yes. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah.

Kevin (42:41.826)
You know, they're gonna have to make their own decisions. You have to put like a little e gift card that they can buy things.

Nole (42:47.113)
Uhhuh. They gotta go to the store and get their candy bars and whatever.

Kevin (42:49.952)
Yeah, but I'm like, hey, this is is your choice, you know what I mean? You can spend this all on one t shirt or, you know, you can split it through the ways or you can be f cool and buy your friend a Gatorade or something, you know what I mean? So but like getting them choices to like make those decisions and I I have to do more of that. I have to let them make decisions, even though I know that it's gonna be the bad decision or the wrong decision. I feel like that's a big challenge for me right now, is releasing control and letting them fail.

Nole (42:55.362)
Yep.

Kevin (43:19.414)
Or letting them make decisions, you know what I mean?

Nole (43:22.179)
Yeah. Yeah. And knowing that when your kid buys the truck with his entire life savings, that that's gonna be a tough lesson, but it's not a life altering lesson. Not really. You know, like you're gonna recover, you're gonna get through it, you're gonna be bummed out and you're gonna but you're gonna learn. Versus letting your ki your daughter get like a face tattoo or something, you know? That's different. Dude, we had a conver I'm sorry, I have to say this. We had a converse we were talking about tattoos the other day because

Kevin (43:32.802)
Yeah, he'll recover.

Kevin (43:42.862)
That's different. Yeah, no.

Nole (43:51.448)
Someone in my family, my daughter Avery, was talking about getting a tattoo. So we were having a conversation about tattoos. Heather and I don't have any tattoos. not because of any like religious or like moral reason, just never did it. And then now I'm at a point in my life where I just don't want to do it. Anyway, as we're talking about this, I I had this moment where I thought, my gosh. I know a lot of people who have tattoos that they regret because they're

Poorly done, they were cheap, they got them in prison. I actually don't know anybody with a prison tattoo, but I there you go, that's red. But anyway, there's a lot of tattoos out there that people regret. Nobody that I've ever talked to regrets not getting a tattoo. Like I've never talked to anybody that's like, man, I really wish I got a tattoo. Like, nobody regrets that. But people do regret getting tattoos. Just think about that next time you're gonna go get your next tattoo. Nobody regrets not getting one.

Kevin (44:25.57)
I got a I got a buddy that with prison tats. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (44:37.505)
Mm.

Kevin (44:43.522)
Yeah, you

Kevin (44:50.55)
Yeah.

Nole (44:53.709)
I just made a lot of people in our audience upset. We had a lot of tattooed guys listening.

Kevin (44:56.492)
Y the four of us might be the only people in our generation that don't have tattoos. Harmony and I don't have tattoos either, and I feel like we're the only ones.

Nole (45:04.149)
We are. We are the only four. So congratulations to us.

Kevin (45:07.682)
Yeah. But I I'll use that joke sometimes. I'm in the same boat, I just I was never had anything that just jumped out at me that said I need to put this permanently on my body. But somebody was like, you don't put bumper stickers on a Ferrari, you know? That's the classic danger. But yeah. W so would you allow Avery to get a a tattoo?

Nole (45:21.417)
yeah, dude, that's it right there.

Dude, when I like when I

Yeah. I mean, and that was the conversation. We were both kind of on the on the path of saying, Hey, honestly, we don't really recommend you using your money for this because you are trying to save up money so that you could get married and like it's not really a wise way to spend your money, we think, 'cause tattoos are expensive. And it doesn't really add anything. She had a really sweet has it really she hasn't done it yet, but she has a really sweet idea that's a tribute to her brothers, or which we lost, right? So it

Kevin (45:57.155)
Mm.

Nole (45:58.444)
It's nothing that's like, you know, Bart Simpson or something. But we do ultimately she's twenty one. So we're like, yeah, you can do whatever you want. and she still might. In the end, it didn't work out. I was gonna say something else. I think I've said this on the podcast before, but for me, there was a whole fa phase of time where I wanted tattoos and the only reason I don't have them now is because I was broke and I couldn't afford it. And I'm so thankful because I would have had like nautical stars.

Kevin (46:21.902)
True. Same.

Kevin (46:26.582)
Yep. The swallows, right?

Nole (46:27.011)
And like the sparrows, I w this yeah, swallows, wrong bird. Anyway. I would have gone that route and at this point in my life, I'm not into that. I would be very upset. So anyway. It's too late now. We're old men.

Kevin (46:36.492)
No. No, no, no. Yeah, we missed the tattoo window. No, that's like way too late. No, there's it's interesting. So yeah, I wouldn't probably not at this phase of their life I wouldn't want them to get tattoos, but yeah, but allowing them to have their own leash and to make their own decisions, that's probably a also a sense of independence and she wants to do her own thing. It's yeah, you'd probably have to let her do it.

Nole (47:03.597)
Yeah. If she had said to close this thought out, if she had come to us and said, I'm going to get a face tattoo, like well, any of the yeah, all kinds of people have faces that would be a hard no for me. I'd be like, is your dad? I'm gonna tell you you can't do that. Now, does she have to listen to me? No, of course not. But I would strongly say that's a no that's gonna be a no from me.

Kevin (47:14.038)
No.

Kevin (47:26.252)
you know, switching complete gears. I got a video recently of our friend Dave Tebow doing a kick flip on a skateboard. And he said No, but it was really cool. And he said he br I'm working on my current goal is working on athleticism. I thought that was rad.

Nole (47:36.963)
Was Tony did ho did Tony Hawk drive by? Do a kick flip.

Nole (47:48.067)
Did Tebow use to skate when he was young?

Kevin (47:50.367)
Obviously, 'cause he just landed a kick flip, no problem. And he's in his forties. So I thought that was sick and I haven't really thought about it, but I I did started doing like box jumps and doing stuff that but I think that's a really neat thing to say. Like I don't want to lose athleticism too. My other daughter started playing soccer again and that I have a heart for that. And obviously that takes some athleticism and so we've been definitely moving around and I was like, Hey, this feels great to have like I'm not gonna join a team

Nole (47:54.905)
That's so rad.

Nole (48:03.299)
Mm-hmm.

Nole (48:07.234)
Yeah.

Kevin (48:18.926)
But I I do like instead of the static bro pump and run, like, hey, there's lateral movement, there's other things we can do. And it and it really came to show when the Josh Nessa brought his e foil out to the to the river. Have you ever seen an e foil? Okay, there's a basically looks like a surfboard with a giant wing under the top of it and it's motorized. So it is terrifying.

Nole (48:23.535)
Mm.

Nole (48:35.789)
What's that? No, I don't think so.

Nole (48:43.96)
yes. Yeah, I have seen that.

Nole (48:48.833)
Yeah, they look cool.

Kevin (48:50.57)
They look super cool and they look super easy and it is anything but that. You had a bunch of like athletes out there trying and not really anybody could do it but Josh. He's had some experience on this thing. But when you fall, you're falling at speed and this wing will pop up and it's like it will decapitate you if you don't fall on the wrong side. So I was thinking about that, but I was like, I absolutely wanted to try and I gave it two or three college tries and I didn't really do it.

Nole (48:54.095)
Yeah.

Nole (49:10.191)
Yeah, it's trying to take your head off, yeah.

Kevin (49:19.906)
But it was fun and I can see the challenge of it. Like, this is really challenging. This is something that I would like to continue to try. And that's I think why Josh has is he's got it down and he's legit on it. But you could tell that dude, he like cracked a rib the first time he was falling on that wing. You know what I mean? And so I quit while I was ahead. I quit while I was ahead and I was like, Hey, I gave it a good shot. I was almost there, but I didn't make it. But I'm like, I don't want to leave here injured. You know what I mean?

Nole (49:31.395)
Yeah.

Nole (49:35.777)
I bet. Yeah.

Nole (49:48.719)
Yeah, fair.

Kevin (49:50.088)
but I do like the fact that there's there's guys like that that are out there challenging themselves in their forties, they're not giving up, they're doing athletic things and hard things, like kick flipping a s is hard. an e foil is hard, you know what I mean? And I I really like that. I I mean I know we've talked about Masogis and stuff, which is still out there. But are these are there are there little things that you can do? I know like you were doing the pump track and you were doing skating yourself.

Nole (50:01.102)
A kick flip is hard. Yeah. Yeah.

Nole (50:10.198)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Nole (50:16.609)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, yeah.

Kevin (50:18.735)
I don't know when it's time to quit, but I don't think it's time to quit those things.

Nole (50:22.369)
No, I don't think you need to. I mean Yeah. Dude, and it is fun. There is a fun thing about that athleticism. I don't do it all the time, but maybe once a week after my workout, I will jump on the skateboard and skate around the station. And I'm the idiot who still keeps my heart rate monitor on and runs a twenty minute timer and tries to get two miles in. but but mad respect to Ta to Tebow because

Kevin (50:41.87)
Yeah.

Nole (50:48.047)
I have just been like trying to work on being able to ollie again and it's scary, dude. So a a kick flip, like that's next level. I'm I'm gonna have to get there now, but only because Dave did it, which means it's possible.

Kevin (50:52.985)
Just terrified to you.

Kevin (51:03.137)
Yeah, they have those wheels now. They're like square wheels. I think you can start on those. Have you seen those? Yeah, yeah. But still you're landing on concrete if you fall.

Nole (51:08.326)
yeah, so your board doesn't roll. Yeah.

Nole (51:13.645)
Yeah, you're gonna fall.

Kevin (51:16.173)
Well, thanks for going over all this stuff, bro. I mean, there's some you know, the joys of life, dude, the ups and downs. That's what we're here for. I'm sure, you know, this might be silly to other people, but that was definitely a family member to us. but it's it it was nice to know that I can I don't have to shield my daughters from everything and that they have their own journey as they grow.

Nole (51:42.381)
Yeah. Amen. It was a good lesson.

Kevin (51:48.291)
This has been the Fire You Carry podcast.

Nole (52:02.317)
Our next fire up program is in October, class seventeen, October second, third, and fourth. Sign up now, put it on your calendar now so that you can plan your life around it.

Kevin (52:14.739)
And the twenty-fifth anniversary of nine eleven is coming up, and we have put on for the last five years a Memorial Nine Eleven stair climb partnered with Stairmaster. tentatively. I'm just throwing this out there tentatively, it's gonna be Sunday, September sixth. Location to be determined because it has grown and then but we will let you guys know and as soon as we hear this is probably my favorite family event of the year.

Nole (52:32.984)
All right.

Working on it.

Kevin (52:44.543)
Everybody climbs, the whole Lily family climbs, then the Welshes, then the T Bows, then the Nesses, then everybody climbs. And it's a great, unbelievable family event. and it is something that we definitely honor our fallen. And you will climb for a specific member who passed away on nine eleven. There's pipes and drums out there, there's ringings of the bells, and it's all free. So as soon as we hear the exact details, we will let you know.

Nole (53:10.285)
Yeah, and Kevin is working with Core Health and Fitness right now to find another venue because we've kind of outgrown where we've done it before. So if for some reason you're listening to this podcast and you've been to the stairclimb and you say, I know the perfect place for that, get in touch with Kevin because we're looking.

Kevin (53:26.937)
collar.

Nole (53:29.178)
Thank you for listening. We'll see you next week.