‘I was told they didn’t hire women. I was the second Canadian female to be hired’ Terry Zavitz, President at Zavitz Insurance & Wealth, based in London, Canada talks the struggle is real! Those early years of career growth can be so painful and sometimes filled with blockers. Jann and Terry talk about Terry’s journey as she became an entrepreneur and Jann’s journey in a corporate environment. Terry provides recommendations to those in business for self and Jann provides ideas for those working in a corporate environment. Terry also discusses her business succession and has incredibly wise words about transitioning a business from one generation to the next.
The book Terry refers to in our discussion is Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg
More on Zavitz Insurance & Wealth can be found here: https://zavitzinsurance.com/
More on Ford Keast can be found here: https://www.fordkeast.com/services/human-resource-consulting/
& for all the podcast information visit our website: https://www.career-resilience.com/
Thank you for listening.
‘I was told they didn’t hire women. I was the second Canadian female to be hired’ Terry Zavitz, President at Zavitz Insurance & Wealth, based in London, Canada talks the struggle is real! Those early years of career growth can be so painful and sometimes filled with blockers. Jann and Terry talk about Terry’s journey as she became an entrepreneur and Jann’s journey in a corporate environment. Terry provides recommendations to those in business for self and Jann provides ideas for those working in a corporate environment. Terry also discusses her business succession and has incredibly wise words about transitioning a business from one generation to the next.
The book Terry refers to in our discussion is Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg
More on Zavitz Insurance & Wealth can be found here: https://zavitzinsurance.com/
More on Ford Keast can be found here: https://www.fordkeast.com/services/human-resource-consulting/
& for all the podcast information visit our website: https://www.career-resilience.com/
Thank you for listening.
00:00 | Hello and welcome to our series Career Resilience, where we talk with people about their career path and their career journey, and maybe we can all learn from each other. My name is Jam Damilola and I'm a human resources professional in London, Ontario, Canada. I work with Ford Keast LLP and I work with my clients to help them with the outside of their business. We hope that you will enjoy these discussions with real people about real challenges and real working life situations.
00:31 | Welcome. Welcome today to our session, where we get to spend some time with Terry Zavitz. Welcome, Terry. Thank you, Dan, it's great to be here. It is so great to have you and I'm so looking forward to our discussion today. Can we start with you introducing yourself and what you do for a living ? Yes, I'm Terry Zavitz and I'm the founder and president of Zavitz Insurance and Wealth that started in nineteen eighty three.
01:04 | And along with being the president, I am mostly a financial adviser specializing in the insurance side of the business, both group life and disability insurance. I'm also a certified financial planner, a chartered underwriter, and I'm also a trustee, an estate planner. Few more designations in there, but those are the big three.
01:29 | So what we decided we would do today is trade the stories that you and I both have about when we first started working, because we both started working approximately around the same time. So we've had similar experiences in our careers. And I thought it would be kind of fun and interesting to sort of go back and forth about our early careers. So that's that is our plan for today. One of the really interesting things about you and me, because we're interesting people, is that you have an entrepreneurial route.
02:00 | And I went a corporate route. So we're going to we're going to dig into that a little bit as we get going. So. As we get to the end, though, we are both have both agreed we're going to give a couple of pieces of advice that we have for people that are just starting out on their careers now and things to think about. And we will get to that towards the end. So that all make sense. Makes sense to me. OK.
02:28 | So I wanted to start by telling you about my original job search went way back when. So I knew that I wanted to work in an office environment as a support position because when I looked around me, those were the jobs that I saw women in. So I thought, you know what, I can do that. So what I did, Terry, is I went around town, the town I lived in at the time, and I picked out all the buildings that I would want to work in.
02:58 | And I looked at each buildings in the hallway where they list the directory of the building, the building directory. And I thought, OK, I'll apply to this company, this company and this company. And that makes sense to me because they're in this nice building so they can afford to pay me, because that was very important to me, that they could afford to actually pay my salary and if they could pay the rent, they could pay me.
03:25 | And so I also knew that I didn't want to go for jobs that were advertised because that would be too much competition for me with a lot of experience. Right. So I wanted to find the jobs that weren't advertised. And that's why I just applied to all those businesses. And and you know what ? My two major goals were to pay the rent and to wear nice clothes. So that was my major ambition at that time.
03:57 | And both those were my driving factors, and they worked and they worked, you know what, I got to wear nice clothes. I got a job. I had quite a few interviews and those were interesting. At that time, most interviews tended to be men interviewing and even the jobs. I didn't get a couple of them. I got asked out on a date even if I didn't get the job.
04:24 | But just so you know, I declined those dates. So that takes me to when I first started. So tell me about you when you first decided to get into the working world. Well, it was it was just so different. I can't even believe it's like your story. You can't even believe you thought that way. And it actually worked out. Mine was similar in that domain because I graduated as a music teacher and that's what I was going to do.
04:53 | And actually, Doug and I got married as soon as we graduated and we bought a music studio. And to buy this music studio, we had to take out one hundred thousand dollar demand. Now, I didn't even know what a demand loan was. I had no idea that the interest rate changed and it was cosigned by his mother. And so it was a seven percent interest rate. Well, in the I was OK in the 70s.
05:20 | In the 80s, it went up, of course, to twenty two percent and we were going bankrupt real fast. So I decided that I would go out and get a job or an income so that I could keep the company afloat. And during this bad time and if you remember the 80s, that was crazy with those high interest rates. So I applied to this. I didn't even know it was really an insurance company. I applied and I didn't really even know what I wanted to do, much like yourself.
05:49 | I think I just wanted to support people anyway. Anyways, it turned out to be Paul Revere insurance, and Paul Revere was a specialty company in the field of disability and they did not hire women. The VP at the time felt that women were mothers first, wives second, and took their career third, and he didn't want any part of that. So I went in there and he said, Well, you don't even know what we are. Well, actually, my father had had an aneurysm at age fifty one and went on clay and it was with Paul Revere insurance.
06:23 | So I knew exactly who they were and how the plan worked and everything else. So I recited everything back and I was actually the second Canadian female to be hired. And I used were pretty wild to know, asking me how I expected to work while I had children and and so on. I think they were well meaning. But I was asked one time what I was going to do if a client chased me around the desk. I didn't know how to answer that one.
06:56 | Well, let me tell you that when I started working, we had a manual to look at and it described women so that I could read it and understand where I stood. It described women as until employees. I don't know if you've heard that phrase. So, yes, a woman wasn't until employee, meaning until she got married, until she got pregnant.
07:22 | So then, of course, the woman would go out the door. But until then, they were employed. We were employed. Yes. So I just remember, too, somebody going by my car and seeing two car seats in there because I had two kids at that point. And they're going, what are those ? You can't you can't do this job with children. And then I, I and I did do the job.
07:49 | I was lucky because I was good at it right from the very beginning because I understood disability insurance and I knew why people should have it. And I knew I could explain it better than anybody else ever explained it to me. So I went out and I did my thing. Well, sure enough, don't I am pregnant five years into it. Well, that got the men going. There was no way I was ever going to stay in this business that nobody ever survived with kids. Never mind being pregnant again. Wow.
08:19 | How did that make you feel at the time ? I'm more determined than ever I was going to make it. Well, it didn't make me feel that I couldn't do it. I knew I could do it. And so did you start getting promotions that Paul Revere was really a Paul Revere ? We were left on our own to do whatever we wanted to do. And within one year, I was already doing work through a brokerage company that you just kind of did that pretty quiet and so on.
08:52 | But I had already started doing work on my own and left to my own. And I realized actually, through good advice that was given to me that just treated as my own business, hire my own staff, which is exactly what I did. And I was the only one in the office that hired my own staff. So I was that was my leap forward was to realize to do that, to leverage myself through others. Yes.
09:23 | So my leap forward, I like that term. My leap forward was again, I looked around and I saw that women were in jobs like human resources. And so I thought, well, you know what ? I can make that. I can do that so that I absolutely loved the human resources topic. I loved everything about it. I started taking every course I could get my hands on to position myself to move into a human resources position.
09:53 | I was very lucky to sit down with a senior human resources person. And he looked at me and he said, What is your problem ? Now, I said, pardon, not not quite clear on what you mean there. Don't tell me that you want to get into human resources because you love people. These women come in and they sit down and they say to me, I love people and I support I love certain people in my life. Yes.
10:21 | But I just find people problems interesting. And he said, well, all you are is a problem to me. And I could tell even then I could tell that that interview wasn't going very well. It wasn't you know, I didn't need anybody sitting there beside me to say this isn't going well. And so but I think, like you, I was absolutely determined.
10:54 | But unfortunately, he was quite a blocker for me. And I would see him at parties and he would say, what, you know what ? You're the worst problem to come up for me, because I just want you to stay in the job that you're in. You're good at it. Just stay there and stop bothering me about this. And he would actually do odd things like at party, spiked my drinks and do do really mean things. Actually, the many, as you said, even more determined to succeed.
11:26 | Yeah. And of course, eventually I did, but not at some cost to self through all that process. Yeah, there were moments where people would say something, men would say something, and you're going, you've got to be kidding, I. But for the most part, because I was on my own, I didn't have to deal with it, actually, and I'm not even sure how you did it in the corporate world.
11:54 | I consider myself very lucky in the entrepreneurial world. And I've always questioned anybody like yourself who has been so successful in the corporate world and then going entrepreneurial on your own. But in the corporate world, you do have those blockers and they come in various forms. Any blocker that I had, I could just kind of push aside or ignore because my success, it was so easy to determine.
12:24 | It was all in the numbers. And yes, I made them happen. So I was lucky. But like yourself, I will say I had I understood that my bachelor music, musical arts was not going to get me into the business world. So I took a course. And of course, of course, I studied all the time and that was key. I was very key, but I don't know, like 10. How do you even get through something like that ?
12:53 | Well, you know, I think how you get through it is being strong during the day and sometimes falling apart at night and in those days we didn't have protections like we do now. And it was more free wheeling there. What ? Well, there was a there was a good thing, more sexual harassment, maybe more overt sexual harassment, because certainly even nowadays there's enough sexual harassment to go around.
13:23 | And that's a whole other topic. But I think that. In the end, when you're determined and also I think the other big advantage for me was when I started taking all the courses and programs, I thought, I love every aspect of this, so I'm not going to let anybody get in the way of this plan. Right, and I think that's why I was able to I was at network at all, I had no network.
13:54 | And nowadays, of course, we talk a lot about networks. Did you have a network ? No, I'm not a business network at all. And but I did have a bunch of very good friends, and it was a cohesive group. And we were from all we all did different things. And we met once a month religiously. It did not matter, you know, what was going on in our lives. And we're still together to this day.
14:24 | So they were my salvation at times. I thought I was going to lose my mind over things that happen. And there are a type of group that there is no no holds barred, like they were never condescending or how could you or how could you be working and have three kids or all of that kind of thing. Right. They they accepted you and they always accept each other. And that was my salvation. Were they mentors to you related to business ?
14:51 | There were some that were very good in business and one in particular. That's Michelle Quenton. Everyone knows, I think that she's a good friend of mine, but she she really helped me go move forward, very supportive and still is to this day. That group of people have been together for so I think for my world. Thirty two years. And I was one of the later ones to come in. So they're still together again. But yes, she was a mentor. I think what I really learned from them is just acceptance for who you were.
15:23 | Yeah, and that's lovely, isn't it. Yeah, it was very important. I will say though, about 15 years ago there was a study group that started and it's just women and they're all very successful women in the insurance industry, insurance and financial field industry. We all belong to an association that you have to you have to be asked to belong to in Canada related to the financial services industry.
15:51 | And they only have I think it's four hundred members across Canada. So we formed it out of there. And that group has been instrumental and each and every one of them and there are six of them. They are mentors to me. Absolutely. So, Terri, tell me, when you decided to go completely entrepreneurial and out on your own, because I'm just in awe of that.
16:19 | Well, I did pretty well right from the very beginning, and by about the second year, I was really on my own, even though Paul Revere was a major part of what I was doing. And I just wanted the freedom of choice to do what I wanted to do. So I basically live two lives. And then in nineteen ninety-three, the career system fell within Paul Revere. And so we were given independent contracts and allowed to keep our clients and all that sort of stuff.
16:50 | And so I went on with my business, but I had already had staff. The only thing that I didn't have was my own office space. So I just went in with the power of your office. But in ninety three I went into my own office and then started growing from from there, but had already grown quite a bit. I already had a couple of staff by that point and when I never really planned to be an entrepreneur, it just happened. OK, I don't know how much you planned to be corporate or entrepreneurial.
17:21 | It just happens. Yes, I think you're right there. The steps happen and the next thing you know. Yeah. Depending on your path. Right. I think I was such an anomaly to that. I realised I had to forge my own path and do my own thing. I mean, if you're the second woman and the first woman actually got pregnant and left the industry. So just exactly the way they said it was going to happen.
17:49 | I actually stayed in and just did my own thing, you know, worked it through myself. And I can remember having our last child and taking eight weeks off. And that was it. I mean, I had two goals. Take care of him and lose the weight so I could get in my clothes again. And he just came in touch with me for quite a while because you had to keep the business going.
18:16 | What I said before about looking around and what in my career I would look around and see where women were and think, OK, I can go in that direction because there's women there. And I think that that is one of the huge things to think about when we talk about diversity and reflecting the community we serve. And that's why I can relate to anybody who is sort of on the lower end of being accepted.
18:47 | And frankly, I think we can safely say that we were on the lower end of being accepted my darkest moments when when I realised either I wasn't treating staff. Right. Or wasn't didn't realize that I wasn't moving them to a point where they could really excel in their job, it was more the management, Jan, because I didn't have that experience.
19:18 | I didn't have that knowledge. Everything I learned, I learned by mistakes. And I think about some of the great people that I've had the privilege to work with. And I think I wish I'd been more supportive to them or paid more attention to where they were at. And and I wish that for women in general, and I wish that Sheryl Sandberg's Lean In had written that book when I had started in the business, because I know it would have been a big influence on me about supporting others, not just myself.
19:49 | Yes. But to be honest, in the beginning, it's all about me and making that business work. Yeah, I think that is a fascinating thing to mention, though, which is the people management aspect, because we all recognize in our careers there was a moment where we had to make that move into people management either through yourself because you were an entrepreneur and you couldn't do it all yourself or myself, because I could recognize that that was the step I had to take.
20:16 | And also in human resources, I decided to leave human resources for quite a few years to go into management because I didn't want to. I always thought I would come back to human resources, but I didn't want to not live the experience of being a people manager and starting to practice some of the things I was preaching so that I could relate to both the manager and to the employee.
20:39 | But oh my goodness, there were times as a people manager that even now I cringe at things I said or did to my employees, because even though we take courses, we don't take that many courses in how to be a people manager, especially when we're in a hurry and trying to do the job. But you reminded me when I was coming up, one of the comments was never work for a woman.
21:09 | There were times that was probably true for me, but I wouldn't say that actually. Overall, I think working for women is is is probably pretty good and that all of us, men and women still stumble as we get through our careers. And every day, you know, I always say I'm on this earth to learn something. So I'll do something that I'll learn from that. I don't know how you did it as much as you did.
21:37 | It did. I took leadership courses and learned to take to understand that people were like me. That was a big revelation for me, that as much as I am a big sky thinker, that I can do anything and networking can hardly wait to do it, that there were people in this world that were total opposites and that I needed those opposites to work with me because they had skills that I really lacked.
22:09 | And where my business really excelled is when I learned a lot and had a good team put together that had different skill sets than what I did and just learn to love them, even though you wonder where their heads that sometimes they were right and I wasn't right. Yeah, yeah. I think we learned so much from the people that report to us. And what happens with me and always has is I've become very fond of the people that I work with, men and women.
22:38 | Actually, I'm not trying to say that men were a block or three out. I have worked with some amazing men, as I know you have, but I've been blessed with that ability to become very fond of people that work with me. And partnering with them is so exciting to me that I think that that's probably one of the things I learned in that period of time that I took off from H.R. to just focus on products and being a manager of people that that sold products and so on.
23:09 | But so I wanted to ask you to you brought your daughter into the business. Yeah. So tell me what that was like for you. Well, I should probably clarify. I didn't bring her in. I had no intention for her to come here. And personally, she she had said to me many times she was never going to come into this company. She just thought all I did was on the phone, people paper, all that sort of stuff.
23:39 | And that didn't interest her at all. But she was going to China with a friend to teach English after university. And the friend backed out and she didn't quite know what she was going to do, but she was working as a receptionist in my office for the summer just to get money for the summer. And I'll never forget it. It was August. And she said. I think I'd like to stay here and learn more about the business.
24:09 | I was totally shocked. So I said you can stay like you can be in this business, but you can't be in this business with the bachelor commerce that doesn't teach you what you need to know for insurance and financial planning. You need to go to school. And Fanshaw has a fabulous program in financial services. And to this day, I still think it's a fine it's a fabulous program. In fact, you can take the finance rate up to degree point now, which is unbelievable, but it should be there anyway.
24:41 | She did so. She worked part time and then worked or went to school too. And and then I was scared. I didn't you know, she was quite young still, and all the years of teenage hood were there. Right. And you're wrong is still there. And I wondered how this was all going to work, but is going to go along with it. And it worked. And I could see that she had the skills, all these things that the teachers complained about her all through school.
25:12 | Like, you talk too much and you too social was absolutely what she needed for this career and smart. And she knew math and she knew business. In fact, she kind of came into it with more credentials than I ever came into it with. I'm telling you, the first time she learned that I didn't have a budget, she was like, what kind of business are you running to me ? If there is money in the bank account, that was a great story.
25:42 | So scared. Scared is the word you used. Yeah, scared because I knew that a lot of times it didn't work, that you can have tough family dynamic and it can affect the whole family. And I never wanted that to happen. I never wanted to break up the family over a business thing. And I remember that it was a turning point because we were just getting into working together and I could see she was going to do very well in the business and that she loved it.
26:14 | And, you know, I would say people would say, oh, you're so lucky in succession, blah, blah, blah. And I'm saying, yeah, you know, would be great. And, you know, I'll I'll let her take control and then I'll act as CEO. And I was serious with that, and I had a person call me from Toronto, and he had been he was the son, his dad, he went into his dad's business and they had the most serious falling out ever, took years of family counseling to get over it.
26:45 | And he called me and he just out of the blue and he says, I want to talk to you. And one of the things he said is, don't say that you're going to let her run it and then you CEO, because it means she'll never run it. And here are the things that you need to consider, and I got off that phone and I went right into Justin and I said, this is it, that this fellow called me and this is what he said to me.
27:14 | And I never want us to have a falling out like that. And this is what we're changes we're going to make. And we made up in episode five. I did chat with Justin and I recommend everybody take a look at it. She's a very impressive young woman. She is. Yes, she is. And one of the things that I really enjoyed talking to her about was the values and the integrity that you have built into the business.
27:42 | Terry, when I look back at our both our careers, when you were starting out, if someone had said to you, this is where you're going to be several years hence. What would you have said ? I wouldn't believe it, really. I never I knew that I knew that I love the industry and I knew that I knew fairly early on because I totally believed in insurance.
28:15 | I still do to this day in financial planning and everything else. This this was this has been a dream job for me. But earning money or having equity or being able to do what I want to do and all that sort of stuff never would have ever expected it. I can remember I've got my goals from, you know, when I started in nineteen eighty three and I wanted to earn thirty five thousand a year. That was my goal.
28:46 | It's not really planned where your future goes, and I think that's a good lesson, isn't it, because both of us experienced it where ? We thought that this is what we wanted or that this is what we should look at for a job, like what really mattered, though, is that we were willing to try it. Yeah, at one. Yeah, we were willing to pivot. Yes. That that's the second thing. We didn't take too much of the negativity inside us.
29:18 | Maybe it promoted us, made us go more. But, you know, isn't that a lesson to for young people today who suffer from inactivity because they don't know what they want to be or whatever ? And I said, doesn't matter, just go out. And first of all, get get your degree diploma. That's the first thing you've got to do. Try it and then start moving around because you figure that you can't figure it out, thinking about it.
29:52 | Well, that is so true. And I think that. Does that come back to the complexity of now ? Oh, yeah. It's complex now. It's complex. It's really it's you just have to try things. Even if I look at my kids and none of them ended up in the career that they graduated for. None of them. Yeah.
30:20 | So be free to move around and don't think because you get out and you've got your degree that you either A, can't find a job in your field or B, you don't like your field. Because I can tell you I did not like music teaching. Oh, well, this is a great hobby. It's a lousy occupation, though, and. Yeah, you know, just figure it out as you go on and don't be too hard on yourself.
30:49 | Are you saying, Terry, that if interest rates hadn't escalated and you hadn't found yourself in some financial difficulty in your music business, you'd potentially still be doing music ? I can guarantee you I wouldn't be doing music. I didn't really love it. I love music and I love kids, but not necessarily teaching music. That's a great hobby.
31:18 | OK, so Miss Entrepreneur, one or two pieces of advice you would give to someone who is thinking of becoming an entrepreneur. OK, so, Dan, you told me you're going to ask this question. I couldn't tear it down to less than five, so I'll go through them quickly. OK. It has to be five. So what leverage yourself through hiring Gracetown can't be without.
31:46 | Second thing, I always have a coach, always have a coach, a or anybody like you, depending on what you're dealing with. Never be without a coach. I call it business therapy. And I've been in business therapy for our third focus on the customer. It's always about the customer. And you've got a judge in front of you. Did you focus on that customer ? That's what matters. For thing, put in the hours, unbelievable hours it takes. Unbelievable.
32:16 | There is no 40 hour work week and there never has been and there never will be. So put in the hours. And the the fifth one, I learned this later. Pay attention to finances. I didn't for a long time. That didn't hurt me. I was lucky that way. But you come to realize we will soon be at the best plumber in the world can still feel a business if they don't get their finances in order. So pay attention to the finances. Wow. Those are so good. Can we just go back ?
32:46 | What was the first one again ? Leverage yourself through hiring great staff ? I think sometimes I just wanted to key in on that one. I think sometimes that entrepreneurs start and they are the business there is. They're all of it. And at what point do you know it's time to bring in staff to start leveraging that staff before you need them ?
33:12 | Before you need them, each and every time you've got a forecast out as to where you want to be and then you hire the staff to get you there, because it's very rare that I've gone to a point where I'm going, oh, my gosh, you know, I need to stop. Or if I'm there, I'm going, darn it, why didn't I find somebody before this point in time ? Because by that time, you're too busy. You've probably already have something happening.
33:38 | But if I find a good person, I'm at the point now where I'll hire them, even though I'm not, I wasn't even thinking of hiring them, if I know they're great. Well, OK, say no to again. Number two, was it sorry, focusing on the customer. I like that one. Is there anything you want to add to that thought. Yeah, just that.
34:03 | Ask yourself if you've done the right thing, that's always an important part, especially in my industry. Have you done the right thing ? And what a good business plan. Something's going to make you a lot of money, such as tax shelters. Well, if you don't think it's right, don't do what your reputation is. Absolutely everything OK ?
34:29 | The next one was put in the hours. And you know that one, too, right ? Yes. Yeah. There is no such thing as a 40 hour work week. That's true. As much as we talk about work life balance. And again, that's a separate topic on its own. So we'll let that one go for this one for this time, Terry. And your next hire coaches, Jen, all the way along. I've had various coaches along the way. Let's say that I have a human resource issue. I need you.
34:58 | Let's say that I've got I've always had coaches that help me with goals and objectives or how to get to the next level. The first coach I ever had was Dan Sullivan. And there may be a lot of people that know him and a strategic coach program, which is phenomenal. It's it's world wide. And I was lucky enough to have Dan as my coach when he first started the business, but he talked about the ceiling of complexity where the habits that you have bring you up to a certain point and then you peek.
35:29 | And unless you change those habits, you're either going to stay there or you're going to go down. So you've got to change those habits so that you can go up and then you hit the ceiling and complexity and so on. You don't have a coach to help you through that. It's going to be very hard to do it on your own. Now, there's an example of something I don't think existed that much when we were starting out. Oh, yeah, I know I was a good learning lesson that as every time I got frustrated, I realized I'd hit the ceiling of complexity and I had to change the habits or change the company or with that.
36:04 | Well, but I also mean coaching the big thing. It is I really should have put it as number one. That's interesting, I think, and they're always expensive, by the way, and just pay the money, because even if you don't have the money, pay the money because of the Arawa you got or you get so much more is so much more.
36:34 | And I don't think I really even know another entrepreneur that did that successful. It didn't have coaches behind them. That's really important, I think, to reinforce. And as I said, when we started working, coaching and getting coaching or looking for a coach did not really exist too much. You know, you're kind of on your own, too, to figure that out. So I think all valuable, incredibly important.
37:04 | And I'm so glad I asked you this question. Well, you know, I just say that I can remember first, starting with Dan and again, that will be a lot of people that know him. But I've had just fantastic coaches since since I've been back and forth with them, but just a lot of fantastic coaches. And I am never without one. But I remember the money that he charged, and I think it was twenty five or thirty five hundred dollars a year for four sessions and and I couldn't even believe it.
37:33 | Well, I need to tell you what each purchase and but you're not going to get a coach for under three fifty an hour. I mean it's you're just not going to get them. So pay the money they're worth every state, the best athletes in the world become the best athletes because they have coaches, entrepreneurs, business people. People in the corporate world need a coach. Yes. OK, what number did we get to ?
38:03 | What was the next one ? Um, I put in pay attention to finances. Watch your costs. Yes. Yeah. Because you're so focused on doing your business to. Yeah. That's always the classic working in the business versus working on the business. Take your time.
38:25 | And I hate doing it and I really complain when people will know it's this, it's here end around here because I hate it and you can't delegate it out to somebody else, or at least I haven't yet because I do pay attention to that. And I do pay attention to making up the goals and the plans and how the money flow will happen.
38:50 | The mine were to to make friends in your environment because corporate it's important because there's a lot of people around to to make friendships, because those people will cheer you on when you do well and be there for you when you don't have such a big success or you're just feeling a little bit down because you can be a bit of a no in a in a big corporate environment.
39:18 | So those friendships are going to be incredibly meaningful throughout the career. My second one, which is very today, is watch your social media and what you're willing to put on your social media in terms of your own brand. So if your brand is out there, then, OK, that might make sense to have your social media a bit edgy as well. But just watch in terms of your customers and so on where you want to position yourself on social media.
39:49 | That's that's a big one to me. I mean, there's a thousand others, but those are the two that I chose today. I agree with you so much and not the part about having friends in the business is critical, like. They can do so much for you and vice versa. Yeah, yeah. So thank you for being with us today. I really do appreciate it, Terry. Well, thank you, Jan.
40:18 | It's been just a joy to speak with you today. And to our viewers and our listeners, thanks so much for joining me today. It was so much fun to talk about the old days and the new days, and I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did and until we meet again. Thanks very much.