27. Alec Cook - Research Assistant, Student and part of the Transgender community

“I was finally able to live as who I was and be open and be proud of that.”

Alec has packed a lot of living and resilience into his young life. At an early age, he struggled with gender identification. He was born a female biologically but came to realize that he is a male. Alec talks about not having the language, or role models, to assist him in understanding his identity in this world. Aided by a close-knit family, teachers and mentors and his own determination, Alec became the person he was meant to be. Alec is currently a student in the Psychology program at Western University in London Ontario and a Research Assistant at Parkwood Institute. He is also part of the Global MINDS Collective an innovative mental health organization started in London Ontario.

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Thank you
Jann Danyluk, Career Resilience. 

Transcript

 | 00:06 | Hello and welcome to our series Career Resilience, where we talk with people about their career path and their career journey, and maybe we can all learn from each other. My name is Jan Danyluk and I'm a human resources professional in London, Ontario, Canada. I work with Ford Keast LLP and I work with my clients to help them with the outside of their business.

 | 00:30 | We hope that you will enjoy these discussions with real people about real challenges and real working life situations. Welcome. My guest today is Alec Cook. Alec, welcome to Career Resilience. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be here. Well, I really do appreciate this. And to have the opportunity to chat with you is great. So we're going to be talking about a couple of things.

 | 00:59 | I will talk about being a student and what that's like. And also we'll talk about your job. And we're going to talk about the fact that you're a transgender male and that means that you identified at birth as a female, but you came to realize that you are actually a male. Yeah, or as you say, a dude, let's start by talking about the fact that you're a student, where are you going to school. Yes, I just finished my third year at Western, I'm doing my honours in psychology.

 | 01:33 | So you decided to go into psychology. What made you pick that course? Well, to be honest, when I was finishing up high school, so finishing up grade 12, I really wasn't sure what I wanted to do. I always really liked science. I loved biology and chemistry in high school, but I also liked the humanities.

 | 01:59 | And at the time I was on a Youth Mental Health Addictions Council here in London, which was a council that brought together youth with lived experience of mental health and who wanted to make a difference in the community. And so I was working with a lot of different people who work in mental health, social workers, psychologists, psychiatrists, and I really got involved in that and thought maybe this psychology might be for me.

 | 02:29 | So I applied and that's what I ended up doing. OK. And what was it like for you to be a student? You go to Western? Yes. What was it like for you to be a student at Western? I mean, Westerns, a pretty big school, so it was like very different from coming from like a smaller school.

 | 02:51 | And going to Western I mean, I grew up in London, so, like, I already knew the community, but I feel like Westerns, like there's just so many people from all over the world. So it was like a big experience for me. But like, you know, it's a great opportunity to meet new people and experience different perspectives about the world. So I enjoy Western. I think it's a good school. Yeah. And so you chose to go into psychology.

 | 03:21 | This is your third year. Is this your final year? So I have at least one more year. Depending on how things work out, I might take a fifth year covid is kind of messed up everybody's schooling, unfortunately, but I was lucky enough to at least have a year and a half in person, so I am thankful for that. I do feel for the people who had to start out during covid. Yeah, yeah. Is a big part of going to university social for you?

 | 03:55 | Yeah, I think so. I mean, school has always been I mean I've always loved the idea of learning. Loved learning about new things, but I think for me, school has always been where I've been social and where I've been able to meet people and have a community. So that's certainly what I was looking for when I went to university. Definitely miss that. Now, the classes online don't really have that social experience, you know, around people.

 | 04:25 | You're not meeting people. So I definitely miss that. So what has the covid period of time been like for you? Yeah, so I have been on online for four class like over ZEW for a year and a half year and a half now. So, yeah, I mean I've certainly struggled a bit with that as I know, like other students have.

 | 04:51 | It's definitely challenging when you don't have like a set schedule and lectures are just posted and you're trying to do that on your own schedule. I certainly feel less motivated to do the work than I did when I was born in person and listening to my professor’s lecture. So, you know, it's been a learning curve. I've sort of got used to it now, I think. But I certainly miss being in person and having that social aspect.

 | 05:20 | Yeah. Do you find you have to be much disciplined to do distance learning? Oh yeah, I think so. Definitely, yeah. I mean, you take lots of four or five courses at a time and when everything's sort of due at the same time, you have to like a lot, a lot of time that you need for four different courses on your own, which can be challenging. Yeah.

 | 05:50 | So let's switch over to your work background. What kinds of jobs did you have in high school? I did a co-op with at Parkwood Institute, so the Mental Institute Mental Health Institute here in London. And basically I went and worked in a lab that works called Mindset's.

 | 06:14 | The Mental Health Incubator for Destructive Solutions and Minds is the first social innovation lab in Canada who uses social innovation and actually research, which is all about bringing youth into the research area and conducting research and minds research, which is what we call it, transition age youth. So 16 year olds, twenty five year olds who are sort of aging out of the child and adolescent mental health care system into the adult mental health care system.

 | 06:44 | So in high school, I did a show up there as a research assistant, so helping out with the research and then afterwards I continued on as a paid youth researcher, and that was my first job. And I currently still working there for like three and a half years now. So. So what do you research? Yes. So specifically, I work on a couple of projects. So the first is I help lead a continuation of the youth mental health addictions counseling and Middlesex M.S.

 | 07:14 | We call it WiMAX. And so basically that that council exists. There's about 12 youth on the council, ranging from sixteen to twenty five who've had lived experience, know either personal or with a loved one or friend with mental health in those youth consults on a bunch of different programs that serve youth in London who are dealing with mental health challenges. So, for example, they consult on hospital programs that youth use for mental health or they've also consulted on.

 | 07:51 | Stuff like there was a project a while ago that was a booklet for youth who were transitioning into the adult system, so they do stuff like that. So I could read that council and then as well, I also research what we call a youth center practice, which is service providers who are working with youth in the mental health care context. And basically what that means is that they are like people centered, youth centered.

 | 08:20 | They're really taking the opinion of the youth. And the youth are not just like being told this is how you get better, but like really driving their own kerogen to actually work directly with youth. Or you're doing sort of the research behind the scenes. Yeah. So when we're doing research, typically we're interviewing both youth and service providers. So I'm I don't work with youth in a clinical context.

 | 08:48 | I'm not their therapist, but certainly have had the opportunity to interview many youth about their journeys through the mental health care system. Which I can relate to because I have also had my own journey, so very like full circle for me. Mm hmm. So what do you like best about your job? I mean, I think it's just I feel like what we're doing is really meaningful.

 | 09:14 | And if I had known about it when I was younger, I probably would have had a lot more hope and faith in the mental health care system. And also, I'm just incredibly thankful for the opportunity to get to learn firsthand how to do research. That's a pretty big deal for me being an undergrad. I'm extremely lucky to have that opportunity. Yeah. So here you've been taking psychology at university. You're working in mental health.

 | 09:44 | What is your plan going forward? Do you have a thought of that? Yeah, yeah, good question. So there's two paths that I'm currently considering before I decided on psychology. I always thought about medical school. I actually wanted to be an oncologist because that's my aunt and uncles. But so I'm considering psychiatry. I work for a psychiatrist who's the head of research at Parkwood. So I'm certainly interested in that.

 | 10:15 | But I'm also not opposed to the idea of doing a PhD and doing clinical psychology. And I think there are advantages and disadvantages to both paths, but definitely somewhere like in mental health. Yes, absolutely. That's a long road of schooling. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. You have to love it. If you're going to be on that road for so long, it's important to really enjoy it and thrive in it and, you know, well, really get into it because it is such a long path.

 | 10:48 | But yeah, certainly, I mean, education, I think has always been very important to me. And it was something that my parents pushed for, for both my sister and I to do and be involved in and take seriously. My parents, like always said they didn't care what we did as long as we went to university and got educated. So. Yeah, yeah. Well, you're doing that in spades. So good for you. I wanted to switch over now to talking about your journey.

 | 11:21 | And so, as I mentioned before, you started out life identified as a female and you came to realize that you were a male. Can you tell me where that started for you now? Sure. I mean, so I guess like to give some background, some context. I mean, I grew up in the early mid-20s, so. I as a kid, I don't think I really like.

 | 11:51 | Had like any trans role models or even knew what that that was, but from a very early age, I certainly remember like being uncomfortable and what I thought was like the prescribed like social female role, like typical things. I didn't like wearing dresses or playing with like typically girly things. But my parents never really cared that much about it. Like they let me express myself as how I wanted to. So that was just me living life.

 | 12:21 | But I think when I started puberty and adolescence and you sort of start to understand, like, OK, what is my, like, gendered role in this world that I live in? I just I had a great discomfort in that and I didn't understand that. And I wasn't really sure how to vocalize that. But so it really manifested is like really extreme anxiety, very like socially afraid.

 | 12:51 | I really didn't leave the house or have a lot of friends. And I was very reliant on my parents and I wouldn't order my own food or whatever. And as I got older, like really severe depression. So what age are we talking about here? So I would say probably started around like from like age seven to age 13 or. Yeah, so I mean.

 | 13:20 | I was hospitalized for being severely depressed at 12, 13. And I think that's like when I started to like sort of explore, like, OK, what is my gender identity to identify it. But I still didn't have the language for that. I mean, it just wasn't something that I think was talked about or really like people were like very aware of, like certainly like trans people have existed forever.

 | 13:46 | But it wasn't something that, you know, was brought to my attention. And I didn't live in a conservative household or anything. Like, I knew gay people. And I at that time identified as a lesbian. But again, I didn't have that language, so I wasn't comfortable in that identity until I went to high school. And there was trans people in the high school. And all of a sudden I'm sitting there and, you know what, like that might be me. Like, that makes sense for me. And so at that time, I was like 14.

 | 14:18 | I had been thinking about it for a while. I mean, I had been dressing in, like, typically masculine clothes for I mean, since I was a very little kid. And so eventually I just took that step forward and said, you know what, I think this is who I am and this is how I want to identify. And so I told my friends and my parents and my family, I want to be I want to go by Alec and use him pronouns.

 | 14:50 | And that was that. Yeah. Where did you find the most support through your journey? I mean, my parents and my younger sister, my immediate family have always been very supportive of me. I've been extremely lucky that they've always accepted who I am, who I am, and didn't struggle with that as well.

 | 15:16 | At school, I was very lucky to go to a high school that had a big gay straight alliance and teachers who are supportive of that as well as there were other teachers. So in high school I was in the gifted program and there was like a special class for that. And the teacher who ran that class was like very welcoming and made me feel like, OK, to come out and say that she actually was like the first person to ever ask me, like, hey, what are your pronouns ? How do you identify is so.

 | 15:44 | Yeah, I mean, I was very lucky to have numerous adults in my life who were supportive. One of the things that you mentioned was that being in high school and being part of clubs and social groups really helped you. How did that really help you? You had been a very shy person, obviously, and not well through quite a period of time. Yeah.

 | 16:12 | So what was it about that social thing in high school? I think just like finally being able to live as like who I was and be open and proud about that opened me up to social work. But on the like, I still think I still did have some anxiety about all that. And what really made the difference for me was like teachers actually being like, hey, do you want to join this club? Like my great English teacher actually asked me to join the GSA.

 | 16:43 | So that's the gay straight alliance. And before the teacher ran the gifted program, she was also in charge of student council. So she asked me to join that. And because the school was aware that I had struggled with mental health, I was asked by the school social worker if I want to join what they called the mental wellness committee. You put on like events every month to help students distress and stuff.

 | 17:09 | And so it was like the act of like these adults who I trusted, like calling me into these clubs that, like, made me join in. And then through joining, I really just discovered that I really enjoy being active and doing things like I think I've always been a person who has like one hundred things on the go at once. And I really enjoy and thrive that way when I have different things to put my energy into. But I just like discovered that, like doing things for like that were like, no, I wasn't just doing purely for myself, like really like brought me a lot of joy.

 | 17:45 | And when I felt that I was engaged and doing something important and helping other people, I felt better about myself. So it was like not a selfless thing at all. It's very selfish for me to get that, like your happiness out of helping other people and being involved and feeling like I was a part of a community. So you were involved in getting the washrooms reassigned. Can you just take that story?

 | 18:15 | Yes. So when I was nine or 10 are the schools, GSA had had a conference of all the students and not and we're like, OK, what are some changes we want to see in the school? And was brought up like we'd really like to have a gender neutral washroom. And at the time there was, I think, maybe a few high schools in Ontario who had multi style gender neutral washrooms.

 | 18:41 | So what I mean by that is that there had been other schools because I think there was a law enacted at that time that schools had to have them. But what schools were doing was like giving students who requested it like a key to the teacher's bathroom, which is obviously very othering. All the students are going to know, like when you're going to the teacher's bathroom, right. That really calls you out. So this is something we've been discussing in school. And I was like, yeah, that sounds like a great idea and really, like, took that on and championed that.

 | 19:12 | So we had to write about why it was important to us and talk to officials at the school board. And I had no experience doing any of this, but I was very passionate about it. And I was encouraged by the teacher who ran the GSA at Snook's to continue meeting with these people and making their quest. And then eventually we were able to.

 | 19:39 | Forget a gender neutral water in our school, so I mean, it's not like the actual physical change was like not a big deal at all, just taking the women's sign off of the door to the washroom and putting a general sign on. It was like the policy change that took so long. I think it took like six months. And I remember, like, feeling like it would never happen. And then it finally did, just being so excited and like and my time throughout school, like having students come up to me and be like, I haven't gone to the Washington school like since I've got here.

 | 20:12 | And now I'm like, feel comfortable, be able to do that. It's just like it was very like I would say comforting and like. Just great from meeting here, like other stories and be like, oh, yeah, there are like other people out there who are like me and who have felt the same way. So did you get any pushback on this journey? I mean, a little bit like the school board, I think was a little hesitant.

 | 20:40 | This is something that had never happened before. They were worried, like, is this going to be safe? Is this possible? But. I really like there wasn't really any firm like, no, absolutely, you can't do this, I think for the most part, like everybody I mean, certainly everybody at the school was supportive and the school board came on board.

 | 21:07 | But I didn't experience any, like, negative feedback from people in the school community, I think it was like people outside who maybe didn't even have kids in school who had such a big problem with like this happening, which is I mean, you know, people make comments online all the time, but it was people who, I guess didn't really have a say in it. So for me, it didn't matter. But yeah.

 | 21:35 | Yeah. Do you feel that even in your time period? Which isn't that many years that there's been a lot of change in evolution. I think so, I think so for sure. I mean, I grew up with social media, that's always been a part of my life. But I've noticed even me think in the last, you know, five, six years that there's been more representation in not only social media, but traditional media.

 | 22:09 | Again, as I said growing up, I didn't have the words to express how I was feeling that that I was trans, that that was a possible for people to be that way. I think we had, like Caitlyn Jenner and like a couple of like high profile trans people, but certainly not like trans men. I mean, and even now, I think there's like there should obviously be a lot more representation.

 | 22:39 | But. Certainly from when I was a younger teen and a younger kid to now, I definitely see the evolution and the hope and that there are people who are supportive. And this is something that's becoming like, I don't know, mainstream, but certainly something. Yeah. People to say, oh, I know a trans person. So I certainly have hope for the future.

 | 23:06 | Yeah, is hope an important part of this? I think so I think you have to have hope, because there's a lot of things that, you know, aren't always right about the world and things, injustices that you're confronted with every day. And if you don't have hope that things will change. That's a very lonely and depressing experience. Yeah. Yeah.

 | 23:37 | So when you take a look at sort of like from a grade, I don't know, let's say grade four on what were the most challenging. Moments in there for you in making this transition. I mean, no one like finding the language to express how I felt and who I was because, you know, as I said, I didn't understand, like, why do I feel so uncomfortable in my body ?

 | 24:06 | Why do I not identify with all the things that the girls that I'm growing up with or the women in my life identify with? And I didn't understand how to express that. I think no to like when I did have that language, like the fear that no one in my life is going to support me and this is going to destroy. You know, my life and my family is going to kick me out and not love me anymore, and I don't know why I felt that, maybe because I had you know, if you read about trans people in the media, that that tends to be the narrative.

 | 24:40 | Right. My parents certainly didn't react that way and had never given me, like, any context that I should think they would react that way. But that is like what is usually portrayed as the trans story. And number three, I think like having the confidence to be able to say, you know what, this is who I am, if I felt even though it felt right, it still felt like such a big decision like. I was so young, I was 14.

 | 25:11 | This is something that's going to change the rest of my life and I really had to find it within myself to just be like, no, you know what? This is who I am and I'm going to live this way because this is what makes me happy. What do you think is the most misunderstood thing about trans people? Oh, my gosh. It's such a big question.

 | 25:36 | I think that people something I've heard a lot of is like, well, why couldn't you just live as a lesbian, as a woman who identified as loving other women? Because I think people think that, you know, trans people are just people who are uncomfortable in their sexuality. The fact that and not every trans person identifies as straight anyway.

 | 26:03 | There are plenty of trans men who identify as liking men and women who identify as liking women. So but I think it's not like being trans has nothing to do with who you identify as being attracted to. It's like I am a guy like that's just who I am inside. Yeah. So that's the most misunderstood thing that somehow it's related to who you're attracted to.

 | 26:36 | Yeah, I think so. That's a big part of it. If you were giving advice to your younger self, what would that advice be? I think the biggest thing would be to just like trust in myself and trust in my ability to be OK and to go on and live life and be happy and do the things that I've done. Certainly as a younger person, I don't think I ever imagined myself like graduating high school and going to university.

 | 27:10 | Yeah. So, yeah. Now, on a scale of one to 10, one being low and 10 being high, when you were in high school, you did a video. Yeah, how much courage did it take to do that video on a scale of one to 10? I think it well, you know what?

 | 27:34 | I think I was I described it as like so I was it was that was about a year after I came out. I did a documentary about my journey of discovery, discovering who I am, but being trans. And I interviewed other trans people, you know, at my school and in the community. And so that was the year after I came out. And I think like for that year, maybe about a year and a half, I was on like such a high where I was like finally living. Boy, was that like I had all the comforts in the world. Now I would think it's in a back then it was like nothing for you.

 | 28:05 | It just felt like natural. Like I sometimes wish that I had remained on that high being with feeling so good about myself and not caring people thought as much. But yeah, so now I would say back then, I probably would have said a five or whatever for me. Yeah. So are you perfectly comfortable talking to groups of people about the fact that I'm trans or just in general, OK, in general ?

 | 28:39 | In general, I mean, I wouldn't say that I enjoy public speaking, I think it's something I still get nervous about or a little anxious about. I still have some anxiety that they don't know that I'll ever grow out of, but. I think it's I think of it as like a skill or it's like something that if you practice, you become better. And I so I have taken every opportunity that I've been given to do that because I think it's something for me to do professionally, like for the rest of my life of the research.

 | 29:09 | You give talks and you give presentations and you're talking about being trans. Yeah, I mean, I don't actively like, hide it like it's a part of who I am. I think for a while I didn't really want to talk about it and I wanted to just be seen as like a sister gender straight normal guy. But, you know, I wasn't born that way. This is like a big part of who I am, and I don't want to be ashamed of that. So I don't know.

 | 29:39 | I I'm pretty comfortable talking about it. Like, you know, I had to talk about it for the last six years, right? Mm hmm. So, like, if you were speaking with someone who was struggling with their identity, like, where should they turn? I mean, yeah, so I guess that really depends on the individual situation.

 | 30:06 | I mean, I think one of the great things about being a young person today is that you do have access to the Internet and you're like a multitude of resources and people on there that, you know, are great to reach out to. And you can access a lot of stories of people's coming out journeys and just general information about being trans.

 | 30:31 | But I think ideally everybody it's very helpful to have that person and have someone in your life who you can trust with that information, whether that's a family member or friend or even a trusted teacher at school. Like as I said, I was very lucky to have a couple of teachers in high school who were really mentors to me, who I was comfortable bringing this to and who supported me through that journey. Yeah, yeah.

 | 31:00 | I wanted to end off by asking you two questions. First question would be what advice do you have for parents of trans kids? Yeah, so I think not every parent is going to be educated on this on what this means for their child and know even my parents were the most
 supportive people in the world, I think had to take some time to process that information.

 | 31:33 | My mom describes it as like she. Lost a child, but also gained so she lost a daughter, but gained a son and gained a son who was happy and confident in himself, which she would rather have, than a daughter who was sad. Right. So. I think it's probably helpful for parents to look at it that way. Yeah, I mean, I can understand why it feels like a loss and why it feels scary.
 
| 32:02 | But ultimately, this is if this is something that's going to make your child happy. Being able to explore that and what that means for your relationship with your child is it's going to make all the difference in the world to that kid. Yeah, yeah, for sure. OK, so final question. I wanted to ask you, what are three things that make you appreciate yourself every single day? Yeah. So this is this is a hard one, I think. Right.

 | 32:31 | Because we don't tend to talk about that stuff, but. I think I have a pretty good sense of humor about these things and. I've always been able to make people laugh, so I enjoy that. What else I. I would say that. I would say I'm a pretty good listener, I've sort of had to be.

 | 33:03 | And, you know, just my existence, I can hope that other young trans people see this and see me as an example of like someone who has been able to transition and be happy and, you know, somewhat successful in the world and know even like one young trans person can see that and be inspired by that and have hope from that then.

 | 33:30 | And then I'm happy and I feel like I've made a difference. Here's what I appreciate about you, because obviously I'm perfectly willing to admit that I have watched you grow up and I have watched that with a lot of fondness and affection. And here's what I see is a family that loves each other so much and you have all been there for each other.

 | 34:00 | And that's just been so lovely to see over the years. So that's one of the things that I appreciate. I appreciate that you go for walks with your dog and your dad and have no doubt great conversations. So I appreciate that. And I also wanted to say, Alec, that I appreciate the courage that you've had on your journey because it's not easy. It's not easy for anyone to try and find themselves.

 | 34:31 | But you had to look a little bit harder to find yourself. And I think that takes courage. And I'm just really proud of you about that. So thank you for chatting with me today. Well, thanks for having me. I mean, I think it's been it's been a good conversation. I've had a great time. Yeah. It's been a great conversation. So to our listeners and viewers, thanks so much for joining me. Today was a great conversation and I'm so proud of him.

 | 35:02 | So thank you for joining us. Please follow me on wherever you get your podcasts. Watch us on YouTube. And thank you very much for joining us today.