Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:24

Good afternoon and thank you for joining us today here at Elim church. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper with Reverend Brian Greenaway. My good friend is in the house today, we're across the mics to each other. You can find us on Apple Music, you can find us on I Heart Radio, you can find us on Amazon music, Buzzsprout and Spotify, and many other social platforms. But today is a very interesting day what's happening across the news regarding Russia, and things that are breaking out there. But we've got Brian with us today. And we welcome him. And we're going to be gathering now. We're at a position where the building work is finishing. And we thank you to all the podcasters the 1000s of downloads across the globe. It is absolutely amazing that you stayed with us for the noise, the hustle and the bustle of moving from room to room. But the authentic press of podcasting is just absolutely fantastic. So we've got Brian with us today. And we're looking obviously at Israel, because that is the ministry that Brian has been called to. And he heads up here within the UK. And the restrictions on the travels that he's witnessed over the last few years because of COVID because of the plague. But now there's a bit of an opening up and today's title of the podcast is why should we pray for the peace of Israel. Brian, good afternoon.

Brian Greenaway: 1:36

Ben, good to be with you.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:38

It's great to have you with us. My friend in this new little studio is a little bit echoey we're just almost getting there. Nearly finished. Not too long to go. But Brian, interesting what's happening with the news today, isn't it?

Brian Greenaway: 1:48

Yeah, I mean, it's quite choppy, isn't it? Alicia happened to do this podcast that we arranged a couple of weeks ago. Yeah. The well, maybe just some unexpected invasion of Ukraine, which is definitely happening, isn't it as we speak

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:59

right before our very eyes, and I can't believe the speed of everything is happening. But we was just talking off air a moment ago of how the Biblical calendar is absolutely perfect on time. And it just brings everything into the realization of how powerful the Word of God really is. We hear about wars, rumors of wars, desolation in the last days, all types of things we we've had very an interesting situation over the last two, three years. And it now we've COVID-19. Has it been almost three years, it

Brian Greenaway: 2:33

really is impacted a lot. So two years ago, I was coming out of Israel. That's right. Yeah, quite quickly. So we could actually get out, get home there. And then they've just announced that of course, you don't need to be vaccinated. Now to go to Israel on you have to have a test, but you don't have to be vaccinated. So that's two years.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:51

That's quite interesting, actually, how the gases come off of all this sort of stuff. Yes. And I got my I've got one jab. I'm half done. I'm done. I'll have to get the anyway, that's a different subject altogether. So Brian, so what we see today for Russia, we're Syria is in the background, Iran, Ukraine, all this breaking out all over the place, we can clearly see, can't we through the biblical interpretation that we are at a very vulnerable position. If we do not live by the Word of God, if we look outside and see and take in what the world is doing, even as believers it can, it can affect us through fear carnate.

Brian Greenaway: 3:31

Me fear is a great motivator. And it's one of the most powerful, yeah, desire maybe as one but fear more. So people are really motivated by fear, and worry. But as Christians, if we read the Bible, yeah, should be surprised should be

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:44

so we shouldn't be surprised by what we see today. For Putin, for Russia, for what's happening for the tanks going in the missiles. Because the Bible makes it very clear, doesn't it? So what we're looking at today, why is this so important for believers? Why should we pray for the peace of Israel on peace is needed across the world, isn't it? And it's really interesting that I think stretching our talk, we talk about peace, I think about those gathered in that that place for fear of the Jews, the windows were locked, the windows were bogged down for the Jewish leaders, Christ steps into the room and the first thing he says is Peace be with you, Thomas A week later, we clearly see that, don't we? That Thomas says if I do not see and touch I will not believe, but Christ comes in and says Peace be with you. Peace is needed, isn't it?

Brian Greenaway: 4:32

Yes, it is. Yeah. Yeah, it is. Yeah. And that's really I think people sometimes maybe mix the two up, isn't it? Because Jesus said, did you not have peace in the world,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:42

but my peace and my peace?

Brian Greenaway: 4:44

So it's a personal thing? It's our hearts, isn't it? Yeah. Our hearts being assured or different levels from the peace we have with God, I think, which is the most important thing. Yeah, you know, we need peace with God and that comes through Jesus Christ, His death and resurrection. That's the baseline piece, isn't it? And that we as church She's although we may go through trouble, we may go through trials, we should recognize that, that Jesus is with us Holy Spirit is with us. So there's that sort of peace. But he didn't promise us peace in the world. No, it's not at all because I've made that. That's why He's emphasizing is that the world will not give you peace. We're not. It's good to cause I don't say we shouldn't pray for peace. We want to pray right now that Russia stops that aggression against Ukraine and withdraws. Yeah, I've done things differently. But we should pray for it most definitely. Because the Bible tells us in Timothy, that, first of all, that we should pray for those in authority, that the gospel may go out because when there's strife and war, execution, authoritarian governments, the gospel is often restricted during those times. So that's why we should pray for peace so the gospel can go out. But then, on the other hand, we know that we read the end of the book. We know we know it's gonna happen, that there's going to be wars and rumors whilst Jesus warned us so we need to have peace through that and see that his purpose is working out.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:00

Yeah, as you mentioned, the wars and rumors of wars. There's that one that seems to rattle around for forever and a day is the Magog and go this this war that's happening on I think we've spoken about this before on the planes. There's a mosquito planes and kedo planes, you've actually seen those planes.

Brian Greenaway: 6:19

You can visit those planes and make Guido Valley Havana Guido it's called Yeah, which is a The reason it's so strategic. It's always been a place of war. So okay, back if you read through the Book of Kings or Chronicles in the Old Testament, yep, you will see that quite often. There are armies coming from the northeast, yes, the Syrians, and then you get the Egyptians from the South because Egypt, or Israel is a LandBridge. Okay, fertile area. So the, to the to the west, up here, the east of Israel, you've got lands that are not hospitable. If you're trying to transport an army to attack someone, you can't go through a desert. No, because there's nothing to eat. There's no water for the horses and for the people. So often when the northern powers Assyria, Babylon, Persia, coming to attack Egypt, another regional power, they would come down through Israel, and vice versa, the Egyptians, so you hear you know, Pharaoh, Nico, going north, go north. Yeah, and outcomes, just fat to meet him. And he says, I've got a quarrel with you. I'm going north. But often that mosquito valley where where the planes are there and open up is a place you move your armies. So right through history, armies move north and south north or through Israel trying to attach to other people, and often to attack Israel as well. And even now, you know, if you want to move people troops, that is a strategic gateway, you either go down the coast of Israel, or you go through that mosquito Valley, which is why it's always been strategic. And it is now if you're going to come into Israel, control the Middle East, you're going to go to the mosquito Valley. So it's always been strategic always will

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:54

be. And that's the big one that will we're waiting for the one Yeah, so we're not, we're not there yet. We're not here

Brian Greenaway: 8:00

because people look at you know, a dog may go yes. Is it this nation? Is it that? Is it Russia is apparent North Korea?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:08

We don't know yet do it? But it's interesting, isn't it? What is ramping up around the world we've had, we've had COVID this plague, however, why we want to look at it Bible makes very clear. In the last days, wars, rumors of war. So we've, all of a sudden, over the last few days, it feels like we've got three or four places around the globe, where you're hearing like these big, these big performances, they're not little skirmishes, are they that are going to break out they're serious, serious military threats. And they're very powerful. But when you look at Russia, you think good goodness, that's the that's the press and if that's the major players, yeah, this is this Iran's this big staff, but the Bible makes it clear. So peace is the key of, of what what we're needing but as you said, we've seen this all the way through history for the Word of God for kings and all the way for the fighting and everything that went on. So this is nothing new. So what is very significant of what we are seeing across the world is this globalization, isn't it this this ramping up for this oneness, this one world government, one world order, one, one, everything is going to be one, so we can see all this happening and there has been many difficult in it when you talk about the Antichrist, many foreigners and when you look around, and it's very encouraging to be alive at this moment is because nothing for us to be fearful.

Brian Greenaway: 9:29

It's not we shouldn't fear should be I mean, difficult times

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:32

Difficult times, but that's where our faith comes in, doesn't it? So when we're looking at today, what is the purpose for me? What is the purpose of me praying for the peace of Israel? Where does this sit in in the Word of God, what is the purpose and so, open that up for us, Brian, as we go a little bit further in Sure.

Brian Greenaway: 9:54

I mean, as we know, Jesus has many names. Yes, yeah. You know, healer, Messiah. You know, the various things we know some of Davido but one of them, one is the Sar Shalom. The principes saw shallowness, right, the peace and as important title because you know, we spoke just a few minutes ago. Yes, peace is actually a personal thing, isn't it? Most definitely, yes. And so when you're praying for the peace of Jerusalem, which the Scripture tells us to, and it doesn't mean Jerusalem, it doesn't mean the church, there are some in the past to upgrade for the churches that I'm praying for Jerusalem. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:27

this is important isn't it's important to recognize where the Bible says, Israel, it means Israel, Israel. So then we get into that discussion of replacement theology Where is a very dangerous ground?

Brian Greenaway: 10:40

Yeah. Because we, because that takes away our focus from what God is actually from Israel. It is yeah. Which is okay. Not not putting Israel on the pedestal, no, but actually recognizing that we are called as believers to pray for Israel, and that the Prince of Peace to come into their hearts, so they come to know Jesus as the Messiah. That's a key area of praying for Israel, you know, we will never know true peace, unless we know Jesus. Wow. And so, you know, all the trouble in the Middle East. Yeah, the only peace plan is the gospel.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:11

It's the only way that's gonna be

Brian Greenaway: 11:12

the primary thing is the primary thing. There are things we can pray for, you know, we can pray for stability of governments, which is more than we can pray for safety and lack of war. But actually, when it comes down to it, it's actually praying for people in Israel, Jewish people and the others who live in the land, to know the Prince of Peace as their Lord and Savior because then hearts change. Okay,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:32

so this this is a personal prayer that actually hits the heart of the person. So when we say the peace of Israel, we are referring to the the humanity within that, oh, yeah, we are not most basic level is most basic level, obviously, we, but every time I think about Israel, all I seem to hear and think about is he's always been under threat. He's always he's always got this defense mechanism in place where it's like surrounded. And it is, it is always a place of when you see the the young conscripts that are that are called, you know, men and women, they what they do two years is it the year two

Brian Greenaway: 12:12

for women and three for men. So they don't mess about their reserves after that, you know, this is a serious, it's, well, you got to win that nation was born in 48. It was attacked, wasn't it straightaway attack the same? I mean, things are changing in Scripture. In those 19 talks about this peaceful highway, there was something really interesting the other day, yeah, there was a a energy summit in Egypt, in Cairo. And CC, the action premier was hosting the whole thing. So there was people all over the Middle East there. And there was an Israeli delegate ministers in a wheelchair, she says disability. And the Egyptian Sisi came in and people were clapping, you know, standing up all that stuff. And he came in to make his address. And he went across the whole stadium sort of thing, although he was in, and he walked right across in front of everybody else's all the delicate sitting in their chairs. And he went to the Israeli read, delicately said, welcome. First time they've been there. Wow, welcome to this thing, major hope you're coming in. And he took time to shake her hand, and to speak with her for a couple of minutes in front of what was the world really in front of the the audience. That's the people that may be and also the people that were, and he took children, then he went back to the podium and did his speech. He didn't do that with any other leader. So we see that from the wars of you know, 67 and 56 and 73, that things are changing with certain nations like Egypt, you know, they are warming a lot to Israel, they realize that Israel is not threat to them. And so we see that sort of the changing alliances in the Middle East. I know we've got to come back to our subject here, but changing alliances in the Middle East, where Egypt gets closer to Israel. And it does also talk about Syria. We know what's going to happen there in the moment is on there, isn't it? But who knows what,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:57

who knows what? Yeah. But it's all very rare. I think it is really relevant to what's happening around the world highway, a peace highway. So this is really fascinating to when we focus on Israel, the the core, what what I see in this little place that's just just holding it together. And everything is exploding around it. And it's just pressing on as God's promises God's promise. So that makes this so very, very real. So there's a dangerous area of isn't there that's been around for such a long time. Now this replacement theology? Yes. So if I if I went on to that if I latched on to that I take my eyes off of Israel, and I look at the church. So that that that to me is a very strategic move of the enemy may be a bit harsh to say the move of the enemy. Because if you take your eyes off of Israel, and everyone's focus is prone on the church and what churches that because they're not Another discussion. It takes away the prayer obviously, of the believers, from his Israel support. We know prayer is very powerful, where two or three Agree, Agree and come together in my name. So we understand the power of prayer, we understand the spiritual warfare out there. So if I take the word church and replace that, if I take Israel, sorry, and replace that with, with the word church, suddenly I'm taking one God's word. Don't add and take away number one. Number two is I'm taking my eyes off of Israel, which is shouldn't I shouldn't be doing? Because the Scripture says pray for? So there's a lot in that replacement theology isn't there? Because it brings confusion.

Brian Greenaway: 15:47

That's right. How can we possibly understand what's going on in the world today? If we don't see the promises? Yes. To Israel, which are everlasting. You made everlasting promises, right through the scriptures? Yeah, I think it's interesting, isn't it in, you know, Jeremiah 31, with the new covenant, but the promise to Israel is still there.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:03

Still there, no matter what if we got word, it's there. So if we take our eyes and we look at what they're saying about this replacement theology, there's been around for such a long time, it seems to dip and dive and rise, doesn't it seem to pop up, pop up and down, but it still feels very strong?

Brian Greenaway: 16:22

over 1000 years of church history, that's why it's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:25

great. That's why yes. So it's really important that a believer understands the history and the biblical interpretation of what Israel's purpose and present position is in in this time in which we live because it's God's place of choice. God's people then out to the Gentiles. Oh, far, oh, we get there. So a believer has a responsibility to understand what Israel is about. Understand the power of praying for the peace. So I see Israel as a as a ticking live calendar.

Brian Greenaway: 17:07

Yeah, that's good word for it isn't the calendar

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:09

is a calendar to where we sit biblically. You know, that,

Brian Greenaway: 17:13

that today, God's purposes are being achieved through the church,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:17

our maintenance is definitely kingdom, perhaps the kingdom purposes is through

Brian Greenaway: 17:21

the church, which is Jews and Gentiles together. Yeah. Also one new man. So there's no doubt about that. That's where our priority lays, we mustn't get to focus that we are obsessed by it. So if some people, some people are not right, but it is a key component of understanding the Bible, and understanding the time is realizing that church needs to align itself with what God is doing. Yeah, I'm praying for Israel. I mean, you know, if we look back in history, you see people like Dr. Moody, or many Yeah, this is what heard of him. We might mentioned my last podcast, you know, how, in the 1890s, God led him to start a prayer movement, you know, and there were us businessmen and other leaders that joined with him and said, Yeah, we're gonna pray for revival, which is what it's everybody ties in to see revival, but also to pray for the Jewish people to come back to their home. That's amazing. He tied the to be amazing. And we saw such changes, you know, in the church in like the early 1900s, the Pentecostal movement, and the growth in the church because they recognize the importance of praying for Israel. Now, it's not that as I said earlier, that we put Israel on a pedestal no one they're not perfect. I know that being Jewish, a long way. But actually, it's God's it's aligning with God's purposes and what he's doing and recognizing this is what God said he will do in his time and saying, not arguing against that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:39

It's really interesting what you're saying the dates the calendar, where Israel came from, we're not lifting it up and putting it on a pedestal higher than God. But I do have a responsibility through the Bible because the amount of times it's mentioned and the calendar situation of our everything is operating what's happening in the world today through Russia through Syrio ran Hong Kong you know, career so we are in a we're in a position where the whole world is in a very vulnerable state but but we're not because the Scripture makes it so so clear. So praying for the peace of Israel is very, very important. But I find the UK church or shall I say the church in the West is is quite weak and limp in not understanding what what it really is about true. Oh, Israel. Well, no, not really. Now that's Old Testament stuff without any worry about that. Every true God's coming back. We've got revival Let's wave a few flags. When actually everything is breaking out in Israel. Everything is so laced in history is such a place of historical data. When you start to study Israel new work with what's happening in the Scriptures come together, use it makes the Bible come alive models.

Brian Greenaway: 20:00

Yeah, yeah, it does. Yeah, it stops it being because, you know, back in the early church, you know, in like, what from around sort of 100 ad to 300 ad, you had a number of well known people like RNAs and Justin Martyr and Tertullian. And people like that, who said some terrible things about the Jewish people, yes, and terrible things about, you know, I've talked about the superiority of the church over the Jews. And, and, you know, one of them, Justin Martyr is very well known, but he said he, for a term that phrase, Christ killers, the Jews. And that that phrase has been used for hundreds and hundreds of years. I mean, I know a friend who's a leader, church leader in Jewish belief, a church leader in Israel, now, he led someone to the Lord, in intiatives. In Odessa, actually in in Russia, he led them to the Lord. And he began to this lady and then he began to explain his background. And when he said she was Jewish, she said, all your across color, wow, just led you to the Lord. You know, but it's so ingrained, it's so ingrained, that they don't think of anything else. So you have this anti semitism in the church from early days. And I wonder we had that the Dark Ages, you know, for hundreds and hundreds of years where the church just sort of, if you like it pulling away from its foundations, it forgot who it was, it lost its identity, because it became, you know, the oligomerization of Scripture, and things like that, which made people forget what the real meaning of Scripture was. And it wasn't a hundreds of years laters when, you know, in the 1600s 1700s, when some leaders began to say, this revolutionary thing, and the statement was, I think that Israel in the Bible actually means Israel. Wow. No one was saying that at the time, but there were some but most church leaders, prominent people were saying, when you see Israel read the church, now, you know, I challenge anyone to go right through the Bible. And yeah, read Israel read church. It just doesn't work. Even in the New Testament, it doesn't flow doesn't work. It doesn't work at all. It doesn't get it from its context, and you forget what it really means. So that tells

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:00

us that the scripture is wholly brief by the by the breath of God, and it is God's God's word. And it fits together perfect. So Israel is very important for a believer to understand. And I think that if a believer doesn't understand to a degree without over without becoming some fanatic about Israel, I think it's very important for historic data for everything that's happened there. But it really brings the Bible alive, because it's, it's central, but it's not central. But it's historical. But we're not looking at the nation. We're looking at what Christ done and how our God spoke about it and where it came from, and how it how it was birthed out of a couple of old age pensioners. Basically, when you when you when you sit when you see what goes what's gone on. And it's fascinating, because it certainly brings the Bible. I think this is a wrong way to put this alive because the Bible is alive, but it just, it brings a concrete foundation. It's a very visible thing, isn't it? Yes. Yeah. It's very visible. It's very visible. You hear about it, you see it, it's very tangible.

Brian Greenaway: 23:14

It's not some sort of it's not, you know, people are sure that maybe some people do believe that, like when you die as a believer, yeah, you float off somewhere and sit on the cloud plan. Yeah. I mean, nobody believes nobody believes that this sort of funny view sometimes. Like that we fly off to heaven. You know, the Bible makes it very clear that we're going to be on Earth. Yes, it will be renewed. Yeah, at one time. But actually, Destiny is here. Yes, it's tangible. And it's real. You know, there's going to be a millennial reign, and there's going to be restoring of the earth god is coming to restore what was damaged from the Garden of Eden, right? The way through history. Yeah. So everything is very grounded in things. It's not some ethereal,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:53

it's not so mythological, floating clouds. We're

Brian Greenaway: 23:56

always grounded in the countries of the world when Yeah, they will come up to Jerusalem to see the Jewish Messiah after Jesus returns. And that's real. You know, that's not something that's allegorical. No, that is something that's going to happen. We're going to see a deja vu rains from Jerusalem sitting on the throne of David. And the nations will have to come up and recognize Him as King. And if they don't, it says that he's going to rip the whole rain from them. This is how it's gonna happen. It's gonna happen that grounds it doesn't it is gorgeous. And suddenly we think, oh, yeah, it begins to make sense now. Yeah. And

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:29

clearly that is, is phenomenal. To me. It's an amazing nation, but everything that goes on within it, you won't believe some of the things that go in it because the Bible speaks so much about it. And as we've said before, so someone like myself thinks Israel that is just he's just floating in complete holiness, when actually it's it's certainly not, is it?

Brian Greenaway: 24:53

It's not No, no, but we know that it says it in Scripture says yeah, that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:58

I think maybe Maybe just make your mark there a few out there as his concept. Israel is just this place of complete purity. And then when you get off the plane, you feel you feel just so holy. And so

Brian Greenaway: 25:10

you know, people when they go to Israel, often for the first time they have an experience sometimes, really. Now we have some strange stuff. There's something called the Jerusalem syndrome. Come on, tell me and always at some time, in a hospital in Jerusalem, maybe not recently because people don't go. There's always someone there who thinks they're John the Baptist or Elijah, Moses, right. You know, they become I mean, they may have they had problems before they went, Yeah, but they get there and they get bigger, so overwhelmed by it, that they suddenly think they're a biblical character. And they all have someone in a hospital somewhere. They say in Jerusalem that has these Jerusalem syndrome. They call it nourishing syndrome. But there's no doubt a lot of people I've heard when they first go to Israel, techni Jewish people who believe as they say, I think I've come home.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:53

That's the feeling of belonging, the feeling of, of coming home that place. God, Krishna, I love to experience that one day, God's grace. So this is enormous subject. And it is the center of our discussions, but it opens up so much donate so quite smoothly today, we've been able to speak very clearly about Russia, because of the way all these nations move together on wars and rumors of wars and peace. So there must be a lot of turbulence in Israel as in the uncertainty of what is going to happen. Regarding children going to school families live in life, because you mentioned off air a moment ago about the siren went off the net, what happened recently.

Brian Greenaway: 26:40

So last week, obviously there's the most troublesome border for Israel at this moment. Is that is the Golan Heights, you know, with Syria yesterday about a civil war there is the fact that Russia have virtual control over Syria now in a sad ally, subset of puppet ally than the Iranians are messing about in Syria as well. So it's a dangerous border, there is the one that Israel's most protective of at the moment, because they are flying unofficially into Syria. Yeah. And they've got, you know, these F 22 fighter jets fighting for Obama, right. And so they are knocking out Iranian weapons that are being taken to Hezbollah, because they will find them from Lebanon. So that's their aim is to not not to attack Syria as such, just take out the weaponry, weapons revenue that are arriving now. What happened last week was that where she was this week, earlier this week was the alarms went off the siren because there was a incursion in the north. And a couple of those sort of drones, which are very popular these days, we're using more came over the border. And we're not detected by the Iron Dome system that protects the missiles, you know, when they're attacked from Gaza. That was the thing I think most people worried about that these two unmanned drones were able to come into Israel undetected. In the end, they went back and you know, the alarms went off, and etc, etc. But they know it's only a matter of time for something more

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:02

sinister comes into the North

Brian Greenaway: 28:04

More likely Hezbollah firing rockets from the North.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:07

How does this don't work? What? What is it? Have you been there when the sirens are gone off? And how did how does that make you feel?

Brian Greenaway: 28:43

I mean, it's a bit scary. I had a friend who's in and he was a minister. He was he was in a hotel and the alarm went off. Do you know what it wasn't about sleep? But it's actually it's very real and really scary if you're in the north. So I was in the, in the north in South Mount. So I was, I think it was in Ashkelon at the time. And the waiter in the restaurant came out and he said something to my friend in Hebrew, I understand. And then he said, he should always set the site. The first one is going off if you hear another siren hit the deck. But it was about the chips at the shopping center. It was around about with lots of shops, good shop. So lots of glass and I thought all right, okay, okay, just carry on that all this glass here. So there's one side of it is that Israeli to get more used to it? They've lived yet with threat all the time. The second thing is there's a lot of people that suffer from trauma especially right now in the Gaza border, you know, where it's a couple of minutes for the rockets arrived. A lot of people have trauma, PTSD, with children, you know, that train from a young age. We don't run what we move quickly, but we don't panic. And they try it, you know, say like, you're training your children when they're young to cross the road. We don't make you stop here, your way you look or you listen all that stuff, because that's, we it's second nature to all of us, isn't it? Really? Yeah. Well, sadly, families in the south are second nature to them to train their children, what to do when the siren goes off, which means getting to a shelter as quickly as you can. And that's second nature. Not that it's pleasant, but they they have to it's part of who they are. And that's quite tragic. I think people have a very tragic time and then it schools like our schools, you know, schools, businesses,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:19

really close to this boulder really close this dangerous boulder.

Brian Greenaway: 30:23

They're thinking that that might start happening in the north now. And you can see when you go to Northern Israel, right up in the north, you can look across the border into Lebanon. And they've built a lot of houses but Hizballah control southern Lebanon, really not the Lebanese Government. And they have a rule if you build a property in southern Israel, you have to build part of it strengthened and able to fire rockets from the building. So the whole of southern Lebanon is almost like a fortress. Wow, geared up with 1000s of rockets, more Eddie's dedicated than Gaza, ready to attack Israel

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:58

to attack Israel?

Brian Greenaway: 31:00

You know, I think if I mean, who knows what might happen. If that did happen, I think Israel would probably invade from the land to try and knock out all these emplacements. And then you've got Iran tied up in everything.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:10

So this is what we're talking about the peace of Israel is critical. For the individual that's out there, these little children that are brought up and through trauma, always like walking on eggshells, not sure what the day is gonna play out, will we make it through and use you, there must be uncountable people that have grown up with this, but then suddenly hit a point in their life where it affects their mental health. It makes them very fragile. So this prayer from my side as a believer is really important to pray for the individual to pray for the area that that God will bring peace to the, to the Israelis to those that live in that that are living so close, they like living in a war zone, but it's not a war zone, but it is a war zone. It could explode and just go crazy. Within moments. Yes, yeah.

Brian Greenaway: 32:10

Unstable Lebanon is, you know, there's, as a country of 6 million people, yeah, 2 million refugees. Yes, 6 million. And variants. We had that large explosion a couple of years ago. And it's just such an unstable country. It's shame because Lebanon was, well, it is still a beautiful country. Yeah, they called Beirut, I think was the Paris of the middle of Paris, the Middle East for place, you know, and lovely people, the Lebanese are lovely people. But you know, it's a country that has descended into absolute chaos, spiraling inflation. And just day by day living is so difficult for the Lebanese. And it's right on Israel's northern border as well.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:46

And we and we say don't worry the when these rockets and this these military forces come in, it just wipes when you look at the desolation it leaves behind. And the turmoil and for generations and generations and generations trying to rebuild life. So when we say the title of the podcast is why should I pray for the peace of Israel? It is for the individual, the children that are growing up on the borders, the parents that always thinking I'm at work, my children are at school, I've heard the siren, you know, they must be like living living life on age. So this prayer from from me here in the UK, is very important. And this is another reason why the westernized church, the church of in the UK, I do believe needs to understand what actually is happening out in Israel. So we can focus our prayers because our prayers over here are very focused inward, and very almost going to get myself in trouble we have quite can be quite selfish. Oh, Lord, bless me, bless me when we're quite safe and secure everything going on around us. When we got our fellow brothers and sisters, sisters in this home land that God has promised. That will survive no matter what the promise Yeah, but we have little children being brought up listening to sirens, hearing rockets, gunfire not sure if we'll we see this. Will we see that? Will we? So this is another reason I really believe and that's what you've been doing for so long is is getting an educate in the church within the UK of why it's important to pray for Israel, not because we are lifting the nation up, but we are praying for the people we need to know the history. What is to expect what is to what has happened. So when we are saying praying for for the peace of Israel is the individual. Yeah, in these?

Brian Greenaway: 34:43

Yeah. I mean, so. It's a responsibility really as well, isn't it? Yeah. Quality here if you don't, yeah, come on. Church history professor Claire Davis, the chat. Yeah, in Westminster Seminary in Philadelphia. And he says this is number of years ago, he said revival in the church is always somehow connected with the revival of the Jewish people toward the gospel and revival of the church's interest in Jewish evangelism. There you go. Now that's an important quote. Because it shows you that when the church stands with Israel, yeah, when it prays for Israel, there is one of a better word a reflected blessing. Now we saw that you mentioned Dr. Moody earlier, how when he initiated this with others, this Prayer for revival and for the Jewish nation, the Jewish people to have a nation again. We saw the outbreak of the Pentecostal movement. Yeah. The Welsh revival in it. Yes. Well, I mean, you know, all these things that happened at the turn of the century. And we see that when people pray for Israel, when believers pray for Israel, there is a reflected blessing. So there are other parallels. So if we consider the late 40s Now, or to the 20s and 30s, Great Britain held a mandate for Israel had a responsibility given to the mother legally, correct. Okay. It was called the mandate. And I know there were people in my family that British soldiers that serve there during that time, yeah. And so it was their responsibility. Now, Britain really didn't do a good job. You know, in fact, they did a terrible job terrible, because, you know, people died. Jewish people died. Yeah, of course, as a result of British policy. They wouldn't put the policies wouldn't allow them to come to Israel. Yes, votes were turned back off, they went back, and they went to death camp. So there's a repentance responsibility. They have Britain, we can't deny that happened. But um, you know, in the late 40s, of course, Israel realized, you know, the people came from the, from Europe, of course, and I got to Israel, there were Jewish people from the Middle East and countries that were being discovered there. And, of course, they declared, didn't they? They declare their state of Israel. Yeah, in one day, you know, they made a declaration. And an unusual thing happened. It was it was like the ball was passed from the UK, or we dropped the ball already. But President Harry Truman in 1948 Recognize the State of Israel. Now, it's Secretary of State and other politicians that don't do that. Don't do it. But he did. He did recognize the State of Israel as a country. And, you know, people didn't like that at all. But what happened in America in the late 40s and early 50s, the strength of the American church we see

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:26

today, there's a move

Brian Greenaway: 37:27

because of a move of God in his early for junior year, the healing crusades, yes, we know the name of Billy Graham, but there were many other names. Yeah, who came out at that time, that the American church grew strong in signs and wonders and gifts during that time to the 50s. Yeah, you know, I believe it's because of that identification of the recognition of Israel was a blessing upon their nation. So we

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:53

completely agree with you is the biblical important principle of praying for Israel, which then reflects and brings a blessing on the individual that is taking the time to pray for Israel, to think about Israel to meditate on what the scripture says. So it's like this, God returns and brings it, I've seen it and experienced it myself. I know, I see how this spiritual, even though I might never go there might not even tread into the land or the nation. But I have benefited from praying for that nation, and that peace of that person and that situation. It's like, God blesses you, because you are taking the time to focus and to pray on family and children and the peace of Israel. And so in into that got returning you got you get a how do you it's a supernatural way that God works, that is not describable in the human language of how I get blessed through praying. And, and, and being in a in a, in a posture of recognizing that this nation is a very, very instrumental and a needed it goes around in a circle. That is that is almost not it is almost impossible to put into words, because it's a supernatural way. So there are a lot of people missing blessings, because we might be focused on revival in the UK. And the church is fixated on the church in the UK when actually if I was to pray, and to put some time and effort into thinking and understanding about Israel, revival definitely comes miracles come through understanding Israel, and when UK backed out, I believe we'd spiritually declined here. We

Brian Greenaway: 39:56

did. Yeah, we did. Most definitely. That's it. There's been a big declines or if you go through the 40s Yeah, you know, and let's see new begun some sports may know of him, you know, he spent he was a missiologist. And the things he wrote people study today in Barber College, very powerful. Spent a lot of time in India. Yeah. And when he came back from India, I think he came by public transport back from India with his gracious he came back and he came back to the UK and he said, this country is no longer a Christian country. Now. That was in the 60s. I think he came back Yeah, you know, he's said we've got to win this country is a ask question. Is it possible to win the UK back to Jesus?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:32

Or no, I would have any words, I would give that another press at this moment. Is it possible? God, we have not that God has left us. But I think that what we are seeing for denominations and what we are seeing for certain areas of what we call church is the consequence of coming off the gas coming off of the biblical press of don't leave Israel as in, don't leave it hanging. You got to partner with it in a way you've got to become you got to work with you got to pray with you got to understand with it's very important because there is definitely a spiritual implication. If If a nation a government goes right by I do believe that that was a massive spiritual dangerous decision. Political but but but we understand and we get that so but can't can we get back as the UK Can we can we all things are possible to those who believe. But I do believe we are suffering in many areas, because the the political decision was, we're walking and we turned boats back. And we've done this and we've done that. That's something that's got to be recognized repentance, Brian, as you said, repentance for our nation. God, I do believe that's why we're seeing a lot of trouble in in this nation and,

Brian Greenaway: 42:10

you know, something happening this year, it's quite significant in 1222. Yeah. 1222 Yes, that was a very significant year, because that was when the I mean, the Church of England didn't exist and did it because now, you know, we now have the idea. But the the church in the UK, put their hand into the government Ed, the Kings Ed, yep, spell the Jews 1222. Stephen Lankton was the French equivalent of the Archbishop of Canterbury expelling, and they never said sorry for that. But this year, they're gonna do something about it. Because last year that there was a document called God's unfailing word. Now, whether our listeners are Anglican gentlemen or not, it doesn't really matter. Doesn't matter. I'm not, you know, yeah. So we've got minister, but I recognize that the church, you know, that's linked to the government. Today, the Anglican Church as a strategic role, whether it likes it or not, as it's very strategic in a way it's, it doesn't speak for the nation's Christians, but it is very important and, you know, so last year, they published a document called God's unfailing word, which recognized how the church in England then as we know, we have England, Scotland, and you got the UK had not been good to Jewish people, as it had it put its hand into papers, government decisions, to expel the Jews, persecute the Jews, make them where a golden star things like this, and it had not really done anything about it. But this year, the good there's an event in Oxford in May, where there's going to be a recognition of this recognition of this, this happening and saying, Sorry, so it was good that the church published God's unfailing word. Yeah. And then didn't just publish papers that this was bad. We did this in the past. They're saying, let's do something about it. And that's good for the UK, that's healthy. That's a good good sign that the church is recognizing past sins against the Jewish people. And so there's at least well, it's more than just that event. There's other events happening as well. Okay. It's good that that's happening. It's good

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:05

for very good, and I think you need to keep it updated, what happens there, because this is, so we have seen it, coming back to what I said, we are we have seen a consequence to a political decision. And then we have for a political decision. They've suffered spiritually. Yeah, definitely. So this is really encouraging to know that there is an event or recognizing, but repentance is so powerful, isn't it? It is repentance. Repentance changes everything within a by the time you've repented, it's changed. sins have been washed, done, finished. Oh, but all the time and then and then not recognizing the mistake that is as bad. So it all goes together, doesn't it? But when you think about the church made and we're a star, the church rejected Who are they rejecting these gods, but this is the church. So I do believe as a nation, to get to where we should be. What we need to do is understand and look and pray and think about Israel, but as you said, not lifting up onto a pedestal. But recognizing how God is using and how God use that as a marker, and how important it is for me as a believer scripturally to pray. But if the church has not been educated, it is suffering because it's a scripture that has been pushed, so replacement theology has a lot to answer for.

Brian Greenaway: 45:33

Oh, yes. Yeah. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:34

So it does what it does. I believe it doesn't affect Israel. It affects the ones that choose to go down the path.

Brian Greenaway: 45:45

Whether it's what they call punitive supersession, is exactly that. 1222 Would it be punitive? In other words, I think God is punishing the Jewish people for projecting his salvation. Therefore, he's going to punish them physically, that motive now, yeah, that's not quite so prevalent these days. What they call is economics. supersessionism. Supervision and stories is another name for replacement theology. It's one of these long, theological, long theological word of economics. supersessionism says that in the economy of God, the economists taken the Jews out and put the church in their place. Yeah. So it wouldn't be, you know, persecution. Now, it would just be a case of saying he's forgotten the managers. He's not interested anymore. But you know, you can you understand the Bible, if you believe that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:27

Yeah, you can. So this is critical. This is critical. This word on the the end of this podcast is praying for the peace of Israel. And when a nation and let's pray that, that this nation, or should we say the church recognizes its wrongs? And could repentance brings revival? It does. So without repentance, we're not going to see the revive. No, no, no. So if we are wanting revival, what do we pray for repentance? What have I done? What have I rejected? What have I engaged in? So the church, this broad brush of church, if we want to see this great move of God, I think it starts with not, Lord, move on us, Move on, move on us, bless us, bless us, Lord, forgive us for where we have rejected Israel, where we haven't partnered in prayer for Israel, where the politicians have made a political decision. And we are seeing physical and political decisions in very spiritual times that are not working. The human decision isn't working in a very spiritual world. So the church needs to get an understanding of Israel. Brian, we've reached that we've reached that point. And the conversation has been absolutely phenomenal. And we're going to, we're going to just kind of carry on these conversations, aren't we as we gather and to our listeners? So Brian, what what would be a good place? And how would someone start that has picked this up? And we thank God for the 1000s of downloads that we've had on these podcasts? Where does someone start that hasn't been taught or spoken to? Or about or heard about Israel in the UK church? Where Where would I start? What is the what is the easiest thing for me to do?

Brian Greenaway: 48:11

Well, there's a different context for everyone. But I'll suggest that you make contact with us. Yeah, we're here as an organization. We're based in Israel, but we have a UK office. And we're here to help believers, whether they're leaders or anyone, you know, to actually connect with Israel, and to understand their responsibilities. So this website, Moz, israel.uk. Yep. Or people can email us on UK at Moz. Israel to all this Mao said, Israel, UK, and Mars is Rado, and just getting contact and say you heard on the podcast, what do I do next? Because there's lots of other organizations. Yes, there's a great organization called prayer for Israel. It's UK based. And they do you know, they're connected with congregations and work in Israel, a main character church and teach them how to pray. Brilliant. So,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 48:57

so simple. Yeah. It really is a simple process, but it is a biblical process. It is a responsibility as a believer. So Brian, we will see you very very soon and to just say thank you once again for coming out and be sharing everything there is so much to get from this isn't so much to get from this. You know, God is good. Thank you, Brian. Brian is from ministry. You can find them online. Pretty easy. And you've been joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper with Reverend Brian Greenaway today here at Elim church. Have a wonderful day. We're just going to finish this off very quickly, because time has just escaped us, but may God bless you and strengthen you. In the mighty name of Jesus Christ, Amen.