Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:21

God bless you, wherever you are. Thank you so much for joining us today as we record this podcast. Thank you for joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and our lovely friend Steve Vala. That's with us. afternoon he is crying out from the other side of the mics. And we thank you so much for joining us all those across New Zealand. Great, great, fantastic feedback. We get in there, New Zealand, America all around the world. We thank you for the 1000s of downloads of these podcasts. May God bless you. And may God continue to strengthen you, we are living in glorious times. And God has placed a very interesting subject on Steve's heart as he always does. And that is the title of today's podcast, whether you're on Spotify, Apple play, I Heart Radio, or Amazon music, it will be titled up as this your language. And then the bit of the preamble that we have before we press these buttons. As soon as you mentioned your language, we start to think of you know, the elsewhere and all that sort of stuff. But it's got nothing to do with that your biblical language, the way that you interpretate the way you use the word in the way you describe. And since me and Steve had been doing these now for a good number of years these we started out when poker, the podcast when we was just coming in lockdown and all that sort of razzmatazz and it would progress to what where we are now Thank God the supplied everything to get to where we are. But one thing I have learned is that the terminology that I've grown up in in the church is known for free quote was wrong. Easy, three quarters wrong. And we're going to hand over to our lovely brother Steve. great Bible teacher steve, off we go my friend,

Steve: 2:01

right. Good afternoon, everyone. In the far flung reaches of this earth. Yes, I'm speaking to people in New Zealand. Right. Okay, we're gonna pick it up in two Timothy, second chapter. And one, we're gonna do what the 15th at wonderful, we want you there for my son be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus, and the things you have heard from me, among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men, who will be able to teach others also. You therefore must endure hardship as a good soldier of Jesus Christ. No one engaged in warfare and terrorism. Sorry, entangling himself with the affairs of this life, that he might please him who enlisted him as a soldier. And also if anyone competes in athletics, he is not crowned unless he competes according to the rules. A hard working farmer must be first apart, I get the crops. Consider what I say am I the Lord give you understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ at the scene of David was raised from the dead according to my gospel, for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, even to the point of change, but the Word of God has not changed, joined. Therefore I endure all things for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory. This is a faithful saying, first we died with him, we shall also live with Him. If we endure, we shall also reign with Him. If we deny Him, He will also deny us. If we are faithful, He remains faithful. He cannot deny himself remind them of these things, charging them before the Lord, not to strive about words, to no profit to the ruin of the hearers. Be diligent to present yourself approved to God, a worker who does not need to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. Praise God. Now, most of interpretations of that section, this is a faithful sign. Yeah. It's, well, you've got to persevere under strife and strain come against you. You've got to fight the good fight and not getting tangled with the world and so on and so forth. And we come to the point where it says, If we deny Him, He also will destroy us. And people say I owe this this means Jesus said that if you do not If you do not honor Me before men, and I want to honor you, before the Father and His angels, I won't deny you. But if we look at the context in which this begins, yes, yeah. Paul is telling Timothy to be an able teacher, an able teacher, okay. And At the end, he says, remind them of these things. That's the people that Timothy is supposed to be choosing, charging them before the Lord not to strive about words, to no profit to the ruin of the hearers. Now, you've been taking a lot stick recently about your stand on predestination, yes. And how it is that the atheist, at some point, may well meet with the living God, because that's what God has chosen to do. You know, and he will convert him and change him. And everyone who's wrong or right, unfortunately, everybody is wrong. Amen. We are all atheists. We are Steve, I'd kiss Yeah. That is so true, isn't it? Well, it was August 8. Yes, at some point. I mean, Romans, three essays, you know, no man seeks after God. Loving, love it. And also in Romans eight, it talks about the carnal mind cannot. Yes, yeah. Discern the things of God, the carnal mind cannot meet. And actually, mine is enmity towards God. Yeah. And before everybody is saved, by our carnal, and I hate God, every man Jack us, there is not one that is free of that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:29

And that should give us freedom to know that he chooses us. That is given. Since we've been studying this and talking about this, this has given me so much freedom that is not by my strength, not by my ability, nothing to do with me. God saved me. Yep. And I love that it's given me peace.

Steve: 6:48

And now, if we look at, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you a question. Right? You've been reading the Bible for several years. You must know some part of it. Oh, Lord, tell me. Whereabouts in the Bible is does it say? Choose Jesus? Nowhere, tell me in the Bible where it says give your heart to Jesus. Oh, hang on. Nowhere, what does it say? Give your life to Jesus. No, well, we're free main areas. I cannot think

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:24

what it says the only place I can pinpoint is come and follow me. Yeah, but that's that's just that's a call on on the people But literally, occlusion. So, as Steve has brought this out there so true. There's nowhere for these three big hitters that he brought to the table. nowhere that I can think.

Steve: 7:47

No, there isn't. Wow, voters that we hear that we hear the language of the church. In actual fact, the only time you'll find the Lord lying out, choose this day whom you will serve. Yeah, right. You will find it with Moses. When it comes down the mountain first time, and the people say we will do everything that God tells us to do. Yeah, yeah, right. Yeah. And then they continue to file over and over and over again, God gives them the choice of gives you the ability, it gives them the chance to choose Yes. And every time they choose when they come to the mountain of the blessing and the mounting of the curse. Well, of course, culture will, cause we will we will we understand we've got no problem. And of course, they fall flat on your face every time. Then we go into kind and we go into the sled and we come towards the end of Joshua's life. I think he was about 110 when he died. Okay. And prior to that, he says, choose who you will serve? Yeah. I say we choose the law. We chose law. We will we will we hear any case, but you can't, but you can't. And then he lays out what will happen? Come on, tell us more. Yes, yes, he does. And then he says but as for me in my house, we shall serve the Lord. But everybody says no, no, no, no will will serve the law. Well, first of all, we'll do everything. Okay. And then what happens? Oh, gosh, patient. Here we go back to the next significant time we come up against it is Elijah and the prophets of Baal. And he says, Yeah, gather everybody. Yeah, at the mountain. Yes. Okay. And I will say it I certainly have people now. What do you think vacillating Why do you keep stumbling between two positions? Okay. If your why is the Lord then serve him but if Baal is a lord, serve him. Yeah. And then he goes through the business of, of the sacrifice, and we have the worshipers of Baal don't submarine slash observes doing. Nothing happens, of course. And at the end of it, we know God sends down fire, burns up everything, to lots a lot. All right? And then suddenly, oh, let's kill all the prophets of Baal. But every time these choices are given choices, they are given to people who say they know, God, they are not given to people are not supposed to be your ways.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:34

So this makes a clear, biblical fact that no one outside because I believe you're making two circles just for quickness here stage making two circles in circles. The circles that he's talking about are the church that the cold those ones in that even they're going yes, we will, but they don't. And then on the on the other circle of the world, there's no way no one in the world is going to go, I'm gonna go and follow the only God.

Steve: 11:03

When you the closest you can come to this idea, again of choosing who you serve, is in the Letter to the Hebrews. I open it up. Well, the letter to the Hebrews is written from a Jew, we don't know who it is, but in a diaspora and he's writing back to the Jews that are in Jerusalem. Yes. And at that time, it's probably around about 68 ID. So we're on about two years before the destruction of the temple. And we know that there's been a big furor in the Jewish authorities want to kick the Christians out, there's all sorts of stuff going on. And there were arguments about whether they could go into temple where they could, where they couldn't, so on and so forth. Now there came this point where there were certain Jews that thought, Okay, what we'll do is we'll go back into Judaism for a while. And then when all the fury and the persecution has died down, we'll come back and worship Jesus. And the whole context of the Hebrew letter is signed to them. You can't do that you can't do that. You can't, you can't switch, alright, you can't keep switching back to suit your lifestyle to hide in that camp. And then when it's all good, Allah Jesus, it goes on Chapter Six of that letter and says, If you keep going backwards and forwards, choosing, choosing that, and then choosing him, and then choosing that and choose, if you think you can do that you're going to be crucifying the Son of God afresh. Because basically, what you're saying, Are your actions is that his first sacrifice was insufficient. Yes, I've got yeah, I've always been crucify him all over again. And again. So this isn't, and this is the thing about Hebrews every four three. It's about the rejection of Christ. Now, I'm sure that there will be people in amongst those Jews that would have carried on in their rejection, yeah, would have gone back to the temple, and then tried to have come back. Now we have to consider whether or not they really saved if they think that they can do this, because you can't do that. Or you can consider the fact that they did it. And then two years later, they found themselves in a very difficult position when the temple was destroyed. When we look at the characters of Judas and Peter, we have two men that denied Christ. Yeah. And the argument often comes well, Judas could have repented. Know, the fact that the devil had already entered into Yeah, yeah, it's very clear, isn't it? Yeah. At the time of denying Christ, there's something about the man, he was chosen

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:07

for that part for that purpose. And whatever way we look at that, because people really got our poor, I'll do this, but he was chosen for that mission. Yes. That that in an app. That is a very powerful part of the Gospels, isn't it? Yes. It's very powerful. It's scripture based. And it will, well you know what I'm saying it had to be Yes. Someone it's, it's not

Steve: 14:35

as if poor old Judas wasn't as rotten in the stinking as everybody else because he was because everybody's like, everybody's like that the Bible makes it very clear. Yeah. The carnal man is rotten is enmity towards God. If I let me go to the quote from the Roman letter, and if people want to read Oh, seven and then read eight. Chapter Seven. Yeah, yeah. All right. Richard, Man, am I. Good? And then going, Paul talks about what he's gone through what he's going through about sin in his life, how he's going to deal with it. Yeah. What's your going to do? A Richard man I am. And the whole point of it is that what Paul is laying out is that it's only the man who is saved and knows Christ feels wretched about his sin.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:35

Love it, that that is so so true. Because when I was where I was, I didn't even think of God. I was enjoying it. And it was just it was the normal drum of life. Yes. And that, and I was an atheist. Yes,

Steve: 15:55

down a pub, or wherever you are, or whatever it is,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:59

you are anti God, anti christ. And when I was antichrist, anti God, he had a plan for me. Yes. So why would anyone in the world wanna go, you've got you now you've got that wrong, because really, you have the welcome. Lips are closed. But

Steve: 16:19

it says here in Romans eight and seven, because the carnal mind is enmity against God. 40 is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be subject interests. So then those who are in the flesh cannot please God. And then he goes on about those that walk in the Spirit and so forth. And if you have the Spirit of Christ, then you are Christ's. If you don't, then you're not. Yeah. Now the choices that come to us as Christians is do we sin or don't we see? That's the one. That's when the choice is cast when the choices aren't met. And then we wrestle, and we wrestle and then we fall sometimes. And we come back and see God again, and we grieve over our miseries. Yes. And we say the choices come before us again, we will you serve, will you serve Christ? Or will you serve serve? seitan? Yeah, right, which is a paraphrase of who we serve Yahweh or bow. Yeah. And we much the same as the Jews make an absolute pig's breakfast is Zach. But a God and his graciousness, and loving love continues to work upon us. Yes. And gradually, very gradually, we find the old man gets weaker, and weaker, and weaker, thank God, and we, in Christ, get stronger, and stronger, and stronger. That's beautiful. And we find things that are attractive and not attractive anymore. Yeah, find things that we used to run to do. We hate to do. Yep, come back, again. Back to the Scripture, Romans seven again. And we find ourselves in this position of the choices that are given are given to us the believers, that choices are not given to unbelievers, you won't find anywhere in the Bible, I reference where choices are given. Okay, correct. I've dug a hole for myself. Now I've got to get myself out of it. Yes. Let's go to axe, the book of axe and we got to axe eight. The Scripture is so powerful. We pick it up in verse 26. Acts chapter eight, verse 2620, circuit. Now an angel of the Lord spoke to Philip saying arise and go to the south, along the road, which goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza. This is desert. So he arose and when, and behold a man of Ethiopia, the unit of greater authority, and the CANDYCE, the queen of the Ethiopians who had charged, who had charged all her treasury and had come to Jerusalem to worship was returning. And sitting in his chariot. He was reading Isaiah the prophet. Now in those days, when people read they read aloud, right. It wasn't the way we read out of quiet. It was it was it was a spoken word. Then the Spirit said to Philip gonia and overtake this chariot. Okay, now, you got to St. Philip, now desperately saying, going over to like the chariot. All right. This is God at work. Okay. Yes. And he said, So Philip ran up to Emmons and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, Do you understand what you're reading? And he said, How can I unless someone guides me? And he asked flip to come up and sit with him. The place in the scripture which he represents, He was led as a ship to the school altar was the lamb before it share it is silent. So he opened his mouth, in his humiliation His justice was taken away, and who will declare his generation, for his life is taken from the earth. So the unit answered Philip and said, I asked you of whom does the Prophet say this of himself, or some other man, then fully opened his mouth and beginning at this scripture preached Jesus to him. Now, as I went down the road, they came to some water and the unit said, see here is water. What hinders me from being baptized? Then Philip said, If you believe with all your heart, you may. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and Yun went down into the water, and he baptized him. Wow. The scriptures are very clear about the carnal man. And about the hearts is the heart. Yes. Active above all. Yes, yeah. So Peter, but sorry, Philip here. Is making a demand of this eunuch. Yeah. which can't be fulfilled by him as a carnal man, because my heart is deceptively. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So as Philip preaches this word to him, face comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God. Something changes in the eunuch, by the hearing, by the hearing of what is being preached by Phil yet, there is a change of hearts. He's had his heart of stone taken out. It's been replaced with a heart of flesh. And foot says, If you believe with all your heart, you might be baptized. And Unixes, I believe, completely, that, Ben, is it all. That has to be asked of people when the gospel is preached and secure and up in the air. Now you don't have to come running down the front race God, you don't have to go through all the razzmatazz matters. You have to ask the question, do you believe now and to get to that point, God has already started. Am I Am I not? The point being is that it's not up to us? Yes. That's what I'm saying. It's not up to us. It's up to the preacher yet to determine whether someone saved Yeah, he cannot tell somebody cannot. They're saved. Only God can tell a man he saved. Yes, that is the preacher job is just to pray just to preach. Just pray. So he's in. He's a postman, that are delivering a word got a message here for you. And here it is. Who will believe the message? Yeah, that's, that's that simple. That's it. We don't need the figures. We don't need to know who saved not saved, what's going on? Just preach? And if someone says they're saved, yep. Then their life will reflect that. Yes, yes. They are not saved. Their life will also reflect that. And that's why you end up with wheat and tears in the church. They look very, very similar. But the tears offer no nourishment. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, we offers nourishment. Yes, we feed one another. We do feed. Yeah. You're writing words from words. Biblical interpretation, the teaching and the sharing of the words is what we're supposed to gather together. Paul, remember Paul, when he Romans, I wanted to impart a spiritual gift. Yeah, is that we might encourage one another. So yeah, even poets that may pause and gonna go down and rely on their hands and say, receive the gift of alien or receive the gift of that

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:48

staves it very interesting button there. Because Paul said, I need it. Yeah. So here we have the great, I would consider the greatest writer of all time, Paul, yes. And he's actually saying, I need some fellowship. Yes. And but we've got these these characters out there that are literally Lone Ranger's. Yeah. Yeah. So it shows you that it through scripture, again, that the greatest writer of the New Testament was so minut so much writing actually says, I need your fellowship. So we can bounce and encourage each other. Encourage one another from where from the word that that that is quite a, I've never never really got it never really revealed that to me before like that, that even Paul, I've read that so many times, you know, and God keeps the Scripture until a certain point that even teachers and preachers need encouragement from your brother, or your sister. We all need to sit around a table.

Steve: 24:51

Every single one of us Yes, we all need it. Because if we don't get it, we become boxed in a we You can weather. Yeah, yeah, we can weather. All right, we can we can get tired and exhausted. And it's like carrying his wife. We wonder if what we're doing is right. Got it right about this we wonder about that we're not looking for. We're not looking to be big up. No, we're just looking. We need encouragement because

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:18

there's a difference in in between encouragement and being big darkness. The big enough comes from the characters that we spoke about before. But the encouragement comes from your brother and your sister in Christ. Yeah. Are you okay? Let's have a look at the word. Let's pray for you

Steve: 25:33

will see, this is the other thing that comes into it. Now. Let's take a scenario. The preacher stands up and he preaches a message that God has given him. Yeah. And from that message, God ministers to people in the congregation. I know that it happened on Sunday, he did it did people like you and say, yeah, you've been reading my my Oh, what's going on? Let's go. And the thing is, that's the spirit of God at work. Yeah. 100, you have no clue, no signing of what was going on? Yeah, until after the event. And I came up. And I shared with you that God had been speaking to them through what you say Most definitely. So this is part and parcel of the gospel in SWAMI, the teachers and preachers and so forth. So when we have this work, or the work of the Holy Spirit going on, we hear of a brother or sister that might be struggling or contending over whether or not they're so soft. And it's those times when we come alongside with them, and we talk to them. We pray with them, we get to know them, we get to know their struggles. And these are the times of encouragement that we strengthen one another with God. Yeah, and we are there to bear one another's burdens. So true. So scripture. And one of the reasons why we need this is that if we don't have that, we don't know who the tears are. Interesting point. Yeah. If we don't have that. We don't know who the tears are. No. And the tears after a while will be revealed will start right. They will be revealed, but they can cause a lot of problems in a fellowship I've experienced. Yes, yes. Yes. So this idea of choosing Jesus choosing to follow Jesus and putting your hand up and go through that. Alright. Yeah, because that's what it is. It's it's rubbish. Yeah. Go down the front. Stick your hand up. I mean, we've all been there. We've all done it. We all got engaged in it all got sacked. There's no biblical language there is? No, as I say, the only time when choices are given, they're given to believers. Yes. They're not given to unbelievers. God there this is just throwing out in the lid of this conversation, isn't it? It's not given not given to non believers. All they're asked to is do you believe that's what do you believe? Yes or no. Do you believe get done by that in that? So all this altar call the sinners prayer? All day or May? You? It's man's it's warm, and it's managed? of keeping on these finger on the button. 9095? Yeah. We had marches for Jesus. Yes, going through London areas, other cities. We had people claiming the city for Jesus. We had people claiming this and that they were doing prayer marches and prayer walks, and so on and so forth. We are now 37 years or 40 years down the line. And the number of Bible believing Christians in this country has dropped since significantly. And being alive both then and now and being able to see the result of what was supposed to be a powerful move of God. Yeah, well, it wasn't it. No, it wasn't a powerful movie, but it was people. I mean, I remember one of the charts was a good idea. Well, I remember one of the charts at that time. If not, now, when? If not us, who? If not now, when? If not us who? And what I was saying in this declaration, is that we are the children of God and we must take this place for Jesus and we must do this. And we must do that because if we don't do it, no one else is gonna announce it again. Right. And there was poor old goat sitting up in heaven. And he's saying, you know, I'm glad this. I've been banging my head against a brick wall for years. And then I turn up. Thank goodness, I've done all creation. Thank goodness. Now, these ones that I've created a telling me what to do, and how to do it. And the same thing with the missions to England and mission London and from people like Luis Palau, and Billy Graham, no, no, God would have used that and people would have been saved. But again, seriously, there were three out there was, was quite both from it was a loose plan was embarrassing. He didn't give glory to the Lord. But he used to say things like, you know, 1000s of people have come forward. 1000s of people have come forward. But he didn't do much good because the country is in a right state with decline, isn't it? We can't get away from the fact that it's declining. Well, it's not just that it's not just the country's declining, but the biblical literacy

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:56

of the and that's the key thing, isn't it? That's the important thing here. The biblical literacy of what we call or what they call themselves, the church is almost non existent.

Steve: 31:09

Well, in America, it is something like 250 million people that claim to be Christians. But there's only 15% of them got a biblical worldview. So if we bring, I mean, when they say, Oh, you're Christian, yes. Do you believe in reincarnation? Yes. Do you believe that Jesus is the only way? No. You're in a Christian? To believe in creation? No, no. You didn't call yourself don't make any difference you draw? Yeah. In the high. To the point is that? Seriously, if you I mean, this tweet Rowan Williams, I don't know if you've seen it. I've read it. I've read it. And even when you ping it? What is it? It's it's do with a gender, isn't it? Yeah, it's a sanctified journey. And you say, is it really is it? Yeah, okay. Oh, my sin is sanctified. I can be honest. When he got a job at a firm that he was a druid anyway, but there we go. Yeah. But don't rush around the oak tree when he's sick or when he's mistletoe

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:18

wherever we go. But this is the church. Well, that's what you put the title on today. The language language. The language is key. Yes. But it's not biblical.

Steve: 32:29

Now. You see, the the thing about language is that you can say you love Jesus as much as you like, yeah. All right. You can say Jesus is my Lord. But the word is very clear. No one can say Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit. And what that text means is that no one no one can declare in truth. Yes, that Jesus is Lord. Other than by the Holy Spirit. Right? You'll find it I mean, you go out. You'll find Jake W you'll find all sorts of people. And I will tell you GCS loop, really not. Not to them. That was not so nice. I this text only by the Holy Spirit. What does he do when it comes back to God? And it says that God confirms Yes, in person? Yeah, they are. Yeah. Truly, born again. You know that, you know that, you know, that, you know. And you got you this and there is no way of describing that. Do yours? No, no, no, no number of times you, you know, there was a thing on one of the Facebook pages. Calvin Robinson is a bloke that works for GE GBN news yet. And he's been it's been going forward for curacy. And the bishops have pulled carpet from under his feet. And there are things going on, you know, about it. And you get these very well, I don't believe in God. No, I don't. I don't I believe in Jesus. And I don't believe that. Hey, so what's new? Was, was nothing new under the sun and all you want to put on here? Who cares? You know, at the end of the day, yeah, it's true. You may well find yourself believing in this Jesus are you and I believe him. As right God wants to get old you are going to get hell

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:33

that is so true. No one can escape. You can be the strongest and the most cleverest person with words and say this and say that but when God is going to arrest you, your language and your ability and your skill sets are not going to be able to hold him at bay. He's,

Steve: 34:54

there's an old saying about preaching the gospel is first to the glory of God, yes. Second sort of conviction of sin. Yeah. And third, to the salvation of the soul. You pulled out the old bag? No, that second one. Yeah. conviction of sin. Conviction does one of two things. It either drives people away, or draws people in. All right, does it does you always got people that say, I couldn't care less? I'm not interested go away, off. All right. Yeah. Well, you've got people that say, Yes, I believe. You will find that people will say, Yeah, well, you know, when I was saved, I know that I could have said, No, you know, I could have said to God, no, I'm not interested, what you could have done, you could have done but when you go back and consider it, what was going on inside of you at that particular time? Did you even consider saying no? Did you? What made you say yes, what made you say, I believe, I believe an Intel Wayne was your fallen, intellectual, carnal mind that made a choice. My flesh, it ain't going to happen. The flesh, there has to be in when Jesus was confronted by Nicodemus and nicotine, and he starts talking to Nicodemus, and Jesus is a warrior. You've got to be born again and nicotine. Wow.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:23

Isn't that in at a good, great, great biblical point, isn't it? When Jesus says you got what you saw? Nicodemus is a highly educated care.

Steve: 36:33

We know that you're from God. We know. We know that you're from God, and in our fields is that well, you got to be born again. What do you mean born again? And you by night, I'm a great learner and a great, articulate, and I've come you said, help. And you said, I've got to be born again. And then Jesus also says to him, Well, let's quote it. Let's quote the Scripture. Let's go. Let's go. fiddle around with it. Let's get John three. John, chapter three. And I would suggest anybody you're going to read chapter three, read the whole lot. Don't stop at 316 Read the whole, okay. Sir, the new birth. Rebel aces, we know that you are a teacher from God, for no one can do the science that you do. And this God is with him. Jesus answered him. He didn't ask a question. But Jesus answered him was so much that I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God, he cannot see the kingdom of God unless he's born again. Now. You can't say no, you can't say can't see it. So there has to be a change within. All right, there has to be a change within. Now, if we just go down a few verses, we have John the Baptist, yes. And it picks up in 25. Then there arose a dispute between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purification. And I came to John and said, Rabbi, he who was with you beyond the Jordan, to whom you have testified, Behold, he is baptizing and all are coming to him. And John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, unless it has been given to him from heaven.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:22

Wow. 27 Drum replied, a person or a man can receive only what is given, given, finished. That's it. You can't fight it. It's coming. Salvation. Everything is given. It's given now, was it pilot or Herod? I'll keep forgetting this. Because when, when one of them what one was it when he said to Jesus, he said, I've got power to release you or, and pilot and eat and Christ said, You've got power, because you've been given, even given? Yeah, so there we go. Again, it's been given

Steve: 38:59

now, I'm glad you picked up that point at crucifixion because there's this intriguing scenario. Yes. Of the cross. Yeah. When there are two saves being crucified next to Jesus. Yes. In the Gospel of Matthew. Yeah. We are told that the two thieves were cursing Jesus. Yes. All right. Yes. They were joining in with everybody else and cursing him. Yeah. But when we get to look, something has happened to silo safe, something has happened to the one, some except the one. What has happened to it? Well, where are we going? Look. Now we're off to Luke. And he's Luke 23. And we pick it up in verse 39. Then one of the criminals who were hanged, blaspheme him saying if you are the Christ, Save yourself and us. But the other answering rebuked him saying, Do you not even fear God, saying, You are under the same condemnation? And we indeed justly, for we received a jury award for our deeds, but this man has done nothing wrong. Then he said to Jesus, Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom? And Jesus said to him, Assuredly, I say to you, today, you will be with Me in Paradise. Now when the Lord is on the cross. He says several things. Yeah, right. But not once, does he? Not once does he refer to himself about whether he's the king of the Jews? What is it that I know? Nothing? Nothing? Nothing. So something has happened to this seIf. What, right between Matthew and Luke? Is that a change of heart? A change of heart. And I used that very, very clear, very clear change of heart. Yes, at one point is blaspheming him along side his might yet and in suddenly, suddenly, he changes. Save yourself and us. Right. So the change changes? Yeah, no one has preached the gospel to him.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:12

Now it's the darkest hour ever, of ever of all humanity. No one has preached the gospel. No. There's no preacher. There's no otter cold. No. And he's talking about save. Yep.

Steve: 41:27

No, preacher, nothing, nothing. Something has happened to that. And it's reflective of when Jesus is teaching. Yeah. And there comes a point when he starts talking about, you must eat my flesh and drink my blood and so forth. And the people center like these these things to offer us. We can't have any of that. We're going, we're not hanging about. And Jesus says to Peter, what about you? And Peter says something very interesting. He says, To whom else should we go? Wow, we're found we've realized that you have the words of eternal life. Yeah. And apart from that, we have come to believe that you are the Messiah, the Son of the living God. Jesus says this to him. Flesh and blood have not revealed this to you. But my father in heaven, comes back to again, giving, giving, giving, given it's given, yes, it's got to open Peters mind. So that's four or five references

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:31

today that will clearly clearly is God given to the human. Yes, it can't be the other way around. Even the fee

Steve: 42:43

only thing you're asked the only thing you're asked is do you believe yes. Lot? You say yes. Or you say no, that's it. This is really

Reverend Ben Cooper: 42:54

important to me that this is free me up of years of Pentecostal evangelical order Rasm I actually,

Steve: 43:03

listen, Mike, you can go out there. All right. When you can go to any church, anywhere on our cost, I can guarantee you 99.9% of them go through the decision. They go through the sins press, they go through the iTunes they go through the I give my heart to Jesus, I make Jesus my Lord Sutton all this. Yeah, I I read I whether there is a church or not, I don't know. Because I want to I know I'm just some little schmuck sitting here is wondering, all I know is that we are asked to believe that's all is being asked of you. Here is the gospel. This is the truth. Do you believe it?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:46

And that's it. That's it. That's it. And that is so simple. But all this altar call always discipleship, all this all the stuff that goes with that razzmatazz, so complicated.

Steve: 44:03

You can say Kanye, I mean, this, this stems out of teachings that have been around the church for hundreds of years about choosing and choosing and choosing and choosing. And if you go through this business of saying, Okay, you choose, and you make this choice, and you do this, and you do that. The man out the front. Wants proof. Yeah. All right. Yeah. He wants proof. So he wants you to stick your hand up. He wants you to say the prayer. He wants you to do this. He wants you to do that. Why? Because the man cannot trust God to do what God

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:40

is choosing to do. Instead of just preach the gospel, reach the gospel, have a cup of tea and go home and not even ask the question. That's it. Because it's not about us. No, it's not about the ministry of statistics. Not at all. It's not about this year we have had 4000 save this year we've baptized 700 This year we've done that is all about statistics a man, we don't need to know, do we? When David numbered Israel

Steve: 45:07

God got the trial? It did. Yeah. Me. So what you're going to, you're going to, we're going to do now we're going to do what you shouldn't have done. You've said it. You said it's done sites on the Internet is a price to buy. Yeah. Oh, there's a price to pay. So there you go. So all we need to do is preach doctrine. Oh, let God do what God does

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:33

and just pack your bag and go to the next one. Come back a temporary preach preach, preach, preach, preach, preach. And that takes a lot of pressure because the church is all about I see it as a theater more than anything now through this because especially overthrew this Passover the it's performing it feels like he's performing or he's got to perform and show off and do all these the lights glitz and glamour, rather than than just preach the gospel. Yes, preach the gospel, the gospel. Don't give no altar call just preach because

Steve: 46:08

just preach the gospel get a god's won't look good. Do what he wants to do.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:11

Because that Luke 23 that we've what I've got open on front man, his iPad, you know, the thief on the cross, there's no gospel preached. There's no preacher, there's no evangelistic meeting. There's no, there's no stadium with with with a well, with someone giving a message. There's no revival tent. There's nothing. It's death. It's death. It's pain is agony. It's hanging on with your last breath. It's the darkest hour of anyone's life is coming to the end of his life. And this man acknowledges Christ. This is really deep. This has got so much in it. You deal with this all the time, all day. All right. allative care. You deal with debt yet all the time yet? You have to be extremely honest when you're dying. And this is punching the buttons in my heart because the conversations that I have at this point, not on the cross but on the bed.

Steve: 47:13

Tell me and people unless they're off their trolley, yeah, yeah. Yeah, are extraordinarily honest. At the point of death, yes. At the end of life, so when this guy hanging on the cross, who has nothing to gain, he has nothing. He has nothing to gain. They're not going to let him down off the cross. He's got nothing to gain suddenly. He confesses, Christ is Lord.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:48

And it is amazing text because when you look at one of the criminals who hung there, hurled insults at him on Yuna Messiah, save yourself. So in this language of conversation that's going on hurling insults, and then go save us at the same coming, lectures and change.

Steve: 48:09

There's a change of heart. There is a change of heart, God takes out the heart of stone. From a man that's been blessed, faimily son yet from a man that's been cursed, and his son from a man has been despising his son, who offers no belief or trust in God in any way anyway, suddenly has a heart stone taken out of him, has a heart of flesh given to him. And he acknowledges that Christ is king. That's it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 48:42

And the other the other faith goes we are We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done no wrong. So they're recognizing that their last breath, we are getting what we deserve. But then we got this one that goes, please. It's a salvation call, isn't it?

Steve: 49:06

It was not so not a salvation. It's a it's a done deal. But he doesn't save the doesn't save the other. Now that opens up the door. Oh, let's go up. So but you've got too many going on across? Why is blaspheming you've got an understanding of blaspheming both the cursing, so neither of them what I'm making a statement of belief. So what's the choice? Suddenly, one of them changes his heart? Or has his heart changed by revelation or knowledge or one does and the other doesn't? So that tells us so much. Tells us not everyone? Not everyone will make it No. And whose choices at Cisco God listen, let's just finish this off with the next guy. Once Corinthians. We pick it up in verse 25 states

Reverend Ben Cooper: 50:01

before you read that, I just quickly say, Yes, this comes down to what we've been talking about before an awful lot of the time. He sovereign, he's suffering. Yes, he is. So whatever he says, is done. Yes. So that's it. And the vast

Steve: 50:15

majority of Christians don't like the salt, the sovereign, they don't like it. Because the human must have the last word, the human has to somehow sync that he has had something to do with the simulation. And the idea is that it's unfair. If God chooses one, and doesn't choose the other one with the safe, you've got them both. They're both they're all right shoulder to touch in distance, I was cursing, Christ. Both both of them atheist, alright, then suddenly one of them has a change of heart. The only way that that can occur is the Spirit of God works on the man. But he doesn't work on the other man. Exactly. Goodness, this is a deep, this is a riot. Come on. Let's pray for us to land. One Corinthians one, and 25. We go through 31. But the foolishness of God is wiser than men. And the weakness of God is stronger than men. For you, so you're calling, brethren, you're calling brethren, you're not many wives according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise. And God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty, and the base things of the world. And the things which are despised, God has chosen, and the scenes which are not to bring to nothing the things that are that no flesh should glory in His presence of him. You are in Christ Jesus, to whom, sorry, who became for us wisdom from God, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption. That as it is written here, who glory is in him, glory in the Lord. Now. Not once their site that these people use Gary Locke, you chose to follow Jesus. Now it says here, you're escaping a lot when God called you and he chose you and you're lonely and he chose you. Yeah, he chose he chose, he chose he chose he called he chose he called a coach. There's nowhere

Reverend Ben Cooper: 52:37

is there. When we really dig this. And the Holy Spirit opens this up, that you can find this place where the man the human has

Steve: 52:49

that capability of saying, I'm going to I'm going to this side. Well, if you look at the whole of that current that Corinthian passage, Paul is saying it in so many words. The wisdom of the world. Doesn't want to know. Yeah, right. And men are wise in their own eyes eyes. Yep. So they don't want to know God. So God has decided the shoes. You You rotten orrible stinky lock? Just the same as me. Alright, perfect. What someone who's done nothing gone nowhere. Got no credit of any sort whatsoever in the world. Yeah, I'm just some geezer. What used to drive around him. 25. That's all God chose. God chose my god called called. God chose and what am I supposed to do? Paul says so that no man my boast. Yeah. Am I supposed to go around and boast I have chose him. Really? No, really? This is powerful. This is great. You know, comes down to that one thing that God chose us. God chose us ruffles the token, aka and he's still choosing and he will chose and he's gonna keep choses. And the religious lot of still gonna go no, no, no, no, no. And they're gonna be like the product that the worshipers of Baal xao is gonna be waving their flags and slashing their arms and jumping up and down. Because they're not worshiping in the true God. They're worshipping, worshipping a false God.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 54:28

Amen. You've been listening to Steve Valla, myself. We thank you so much for joining us. You can capture this a week down the line. We will see you next week, Thursday or Friday. As we record the next podcast, thank you so much. And the title of today is very simply your language, your biblical language, your law. We thank you so much. Lord bless our brother Steve and his family. And we thank God for Steve's teaching. And we thank God that God has called and chosen to Dave, for such a time this have a great day wherever you are across this earth. We right the way out to Australia and around the world. We thank you so much you can find us on so many platforms, so many different social platforms. Please share this stuff out. Have a great day wherever you are, in the name of Jesus, amen.