God bless you. Hallelujah. The Lord is King. He's worthy of all praise. This is the day that the Lord has made we shall rejoice and be glad. Thank you so much for joining us. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and Simon pinch back this morning, wherever you are, across the platform or podcast and this is#Christian straight talk straight out of the barrel of truth. And I think you better do your trousers up for this one though your belt. Again, this is getting a little bit
Simon Pinchbeck:and put the lock on a wallet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lock on your wallet. You know, what i mean?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, that's the one thing Yeah. And keep an eye on your bank account because
Reverend Ben Cooper:disengage yourself from the transatlantic brothers and sisters.
Simon Pinchbeck:We will be asking for donations at some point.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The Lord is telling us the first 1000 listeners to give us 1000 pound God is gonna bless you. You know, the title of today is the prosperity gospel.
Simon Pinchbeck:If you can't afford a grant, you know, borrow chocolate. Oh, yeah, goodness,
Reverend Ben Cooper:if you don't give us 1000 pound, if you don't, if you don't, God's not gonna bless you. You know what, let's square sang straight up. Before we go into this. We are saved. The most important thing on this is that we are redeemed. We are redeemed and we are servants. You know, we're gonna go, we might touch the fringe of a few things that might be a little bit delicate today. But God is with us. We are really respectful to you, wherever you are. We thank you so much for downloading the 1000s of downloads that we've had. Regarding all these podcasts that we do here. You can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, I Heart Radio and so many other social platforms. This is # Christian straight talk straight out the barrel of truth today. Oh my lord.
Simon Pinchbeck:Ben, you know we Good morning, Ben. And good morning, everyone. It's great. Absolutely great to be with you back on our mics again, you know. And you know what, when we have a laugh, we can have a joke about this stuff. But it is serious. It's very serious, very serious, because you know, who's know we're in the Gospel where it says, give me your last.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Give me your last 1000 points
Simon Pinchbeck:and you'll be really blessed is there's no way there's no
Reverend Ben Cooper:biblical references there. It's fake. And I think the reference points that I have to come from from this is Matthew chapter seven verse 15. Be very wary The scripture says a false prophets which will come to you in sheep's clothing. Inward inwardly they are raging wolves you know we are living in the times of revelation aren't we felt alone in one Thessalonians about where it says in the last days there'll be wars rooms or wars pestilence plagues you know, there will be men rising with a form of godliness but denying its power.
Simon Pinchbeck:But yeah, we are and that's a great scripture you know, I've got a couple in the back burner but that's a great scripture you play you know, that is wolves in sheep's clothing that is really describes what's going on didn't you know this is and it's from the gospel, you know, going along with that, you know, Ben one Timothy 610 says it's the you know, many people miss quote this standard they say money is the root of all evil Ben but it's the the love is the love of the love of money is the root
Reverend Ben Cooper:of thumb a little bit. Just one pound in your pocket. I just don't want to be on the on the wrong side.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's we'll we'll get into it as we get into this. But is that Dollar Tree?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Wow, we got the builders in the house. We got the builders in the house. It's okay. Don't worry. He will stop in any any moment. It's okay. The builders are in now. Sorry about that. Don't worry, we'll carry on. It's all good. It's it's the Yeah, it will disappear in a minute. Praise the load. Hallelujah. Always getting a little bit loud. Father, we don't realize we're online. Where is it? Where is it? You know, this is just real stuff. This is coming out of our little studio, but the builders, the builders are out there. And we will we will get it dealt with. And as we carry on, without just talking.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because, Ben, another scripture that came to mind is one John 216, which was he says, this is for all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life is not of the Father but his obvious world. And the world is passing away and the lust and the lust of it, but he who does the will of God abides forever. And and Ben it's it really is that point where Where we're at is, is with this prosperity stuff that is what it's about. It's a lust for all this stuff. And what brought me to this was this week I was doing I was doing a bit of research for a talk I'm doing and suddenly, you know, a popped up online I was looking at the the top 10 wealthiest pastors all loaded ago and I just wanted to get sort of a handle on it for something I was doing and it really blew my mind the amount of money that that some of these fellas, the personal wealth that some of these fellas are actually worth, you know, gotta be
Reverend Ben Cooper:careful. Be careful, this is heavy money. This woman
Simon Pinchbeck:you know, you've got someone you know, I'll go through a few pin but you've got someone like Jesse Duplantis is personal wealth is$50 million. You got Ashima Lalo in the UK pass K ICC. Yeah, and the organization massive and again, his personal wealth is$10 million you know, and I know people that have men that have been to that church and you know, if you're given you know, 10,000 pounds or something they they get you up there a friend they you know, yeah, a big check and you know, in a cardboard thing, Hale this man is, you know, highly blessed and highly favored and highly
Reverend Ben Cooper:skin, blessed and highly skin. I've just put up my credit card to look good in front of the pastor. We'll come to a real serious issue haven't we? Where all this churchy stuff is coming to a crash isn't it?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, if we look then at what what is we'll go into some of the guys that are in that well into this. And really what was saying is really think think very carefully for you. Yeah, give you good for getting into all this and, and it comes some are very blatant and some are not so blind. And but it really is a prosperity gospel, which promotes health and wealth. Through financial seed. Yes, the bend you know and it's the or if financial seed or talking things into existence, so is the word of faith as well the word
Reverend Ben Cooper:of faith which which it has spiritual power, but obviously it's coming from the wrong side of the cross. So yeah, we it's like it comes back to our own like Simon the sorcerer, then it it comes back to sorcery sorcery is alive and well, and has an office in certain ministries, sorcery, because that's what it really is. Sorcery refuse to study Simon the sorcerer, it clearly says that the people said that he is of the higher power of God, look at what he is doing. But he wasn't saved. He wasn't a child, the living God. Things were happening spiritually.
Simon Pinchbeck:Right back in those days, people were twisting stuff. Yeah. And people these guys twist scripture, Ben to make it fit into their, into their premise. So in a few of the scriptures that they like, or one is the big one they like is, is Philippians 419 Ben and my God will supply all your needs according to His riches and glory in Christ Jesus. Yeah. And so those those what are saying he's been is that, you know, God wants to bless you. God wants to Yeah, so, scripture, God wants to sideline
Reverend Ben Cooper:everything. Well hang on a minute, God wants, he wants me to be rich. He wants me to be healed. He wants me this he wants me that. When actually Three times I pleaded with the Lord, will you remove it from when God said My grace is sufficient for you? Paul says I know what it's like to be beaten to be shipped wrecked. I know what it's like to have nothing
Simon Pinchbeck:but the way I read the Scripture been in the says My God shall supply and eat according to his riches and glory Christ. The way I read that is he supplies everything you need for this purpose. Yes, that's correct. So is you know, is this purpose, giving you a five bedroom house and the Mercedes car and a drive? I think I think I don't think
Reverend Ben Cooper:I don't think I can find a biblical reference for that. The only person uh, you know, you've got Abram, you've got you've you have Abraham sorry, and you have Solomon you but God bless them for a set purpose for a set reason. And I think what we find in religion and then is prosperity gospel in this moment and climate, they are magicians. There's only one word for them magicians because Simon the sorcerer was a magician,
Simon Pinchbeck:they're snake oil salesmen then that it's slippery. It's wrong. I'm gonna say the line. It can't and using the cost Ryan for financial, you know, so another one, they're really, they really love this one Ben, you know, they will say, beloved, I pray that you may prosper in all things and be healthy just as your soul prospered. And that is three John one, two, what else? All that is is a greeting to an elder assessor. It's nothing more than the manipulation of Scripture. That's what we'd have light in a scripture. Yeah. Because suddenly you'll say Joyce Meyer, I've seen her say that, yeah. And say, See, God wants you to prosper. God wants you to have these things.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. See, what we've got to remember is, the Scripture says, God is the God of the gods of the earth. So there are other gods there are myth, logical gods, there are Satanic gods. So when you take a magician, and you put that and you use it and you manipulate the text, you suddenly find that you have this, this witchcraft formula that they use. It's so surreal at the highest level, it is written about in the Old Testament, in to Peter chapter three, verse three, it says, above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. So what is the desire? They got the desire to be what Lucifer would worship, I've got to be worshipped is interesting is that all this stuff that we're looking at? They love fine, they love to be lifted and highly lifted and exalted.
Simon Pinchbeck:And what comes with that Ben is, is,
Reverend Ben Cooper:is money, my monetary monetary gain,
Simon Pinchbeck:monetary gain comes with the fame. And if it's okay to be wealthy, it's fine. And you know, we're not saying that we have to be poor and desolate now and
Reverend Ben Cooper:live in a field. We're not saying no, it's okay. We are saying is the manipulation of those that are in congregations that are hanging out for a real word. And another thing that we got to be careful of is this, this language that we had for quite a while now, but this prophetic speech all the time, this prophetic language, God has told me this, God has told me that God is telling you this God, God, God, God, God, God,
Simon Pinchbeck:stop saying God has told you it's not saying Please stop saying one thing. Your vocabulary. Stop saying that. And yeah, so
Reverend Ben Cooper:John, is that as well? It's everywhere, isn't it? Yeah. A lot of places, a lot of ministers. The prophetic ministry is growing. But hiding under the blanket of the clergy close, and you'll
Simon Pinchbeck:hear these guys sorcery. The guys say a lot of that God has told me, No, my friend, God doesn't come to you for counsel. He hasn't come to you for wisdom. No, no, he doesn't need you. And he doesn't need you doesn't need your thoughts, either.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So what happened is that I saw I saw a seed of 5000 quid I give 5000 pound to this ministry. And I have gone on the on the understanding that when I give 5000 pound, that I'm going to be blessed in such a way that it's just going to blow me off the off the off the chart. I saw the money. I've sewed the money. I've done what they said, they send me a prayer cloth. They send me the holy oil, they send me whatever they send me, and nothing happens. So who gets the blame? Why didn't God do that?
Simon Pinchbeck:You get the blame for not having enough faith. And you get a no blame for not maybe giving money, because you've got more so that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:the more I give the more Pfeiffer get, the more I give, the more so suddenly becomes a gospel for cash. The New Testament writers write very clearly you're peddling this gospel for financial wealth,
Simon Pinchbeck:financial wealth, and like I've said, it's okay to have wealth but not to put covet it and not to put it above God. And then it becomes an idol that it becomes an island becomes a number one thing Yeah, you know, and you get you listen, and money then becomes like God is a God and it'd be money that ties you to the world that request you because
Reverend Ben Cooper:what do I get with the money? I get a house what? Material material possessions where your heart is, where's your treasure? Where's your heart? Where's your treasure heart heart treasure? Where is it all?
Simon Pinchbeck:They'll say they'll say these. These guys will say you want peace you can't have peace around money and It's one. And they'll say also been, they'll say, you can't have a harvest without a seed. Right? Yeah. And that will say, it doesn't matter how much you pray doesn't matter how much you fast, you can't have a harvest without a seat. Now there's seed. Yeah, is a financial seat.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And let it go to
Simon Pinchbeck:proceed is a financial Exactly. The seed in the Bible is the Word of God is the word of God. So So, so our seed is been sown by the word of God within you, that bring you closer to Christ each each day, then it doesn't matter if you give millions it does not that's not going to get you any closer to Christ.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think what Simon is saying as well about the peace issue, that one place we can go to in the Gospel of John where, where Christ comes back and he says to Thomas, Peace be with you. Christ is the only one that can give peace money can't give you peace. Material wealth can't give you peace. I know so many people that are literally dripping in money, and they are the most miserable human being on the earth. Yeah, no, of course, because they can have what they want when they want. But they are finding that materialism doesn't fulfill the void the gap,
Simon Pinchbeck:because it's always the next thing you see. So that that hasn't fulfilled. So I must have something else. It's something else and then you list the list of the eyes and yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's it yesterday. Oh, I liked the car a lot in the new house. I love the holidays. I love the Florida trips. I love this. I love that I love love, love. I
Simon Pinchbeck:love you summed up my life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Florida. Nice car, you've gotten a drive. I just saw your check for 400 quid. So Simon, please, if anyone can do better, Oh, honey for I got I got a five does not gonna bless you.
Simon Pinchbeck:But that's, you know, another scripture though used by Matthew 633. Seek first the kingdom and everything else will fall into place. So, you know, Seek first the kingdom. So you're, you're seeking first the Kingdom? By seeking me because yeah, I am the kingdom.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think that the key to all of this. That's next. That's the next thing. I think what we've what we are finding that we are living in a generation where I'm going to say the church is very biblically illiterate, totally. If you know the word, if you know the word and you know that you will not get caught in a context you have to know the Bible. So if you know the Bible, but what it will do if you know the Bible, you will suddenly start to find that these are magicians and it is sorcery. And then another thing happens to you that you get almost a righteous anger because you're thinking how can people be buying into it? It is simple because there is biblical illiteracy. If you know the Scripture, you know that this has no biblical reference to what they are saying.
Simon Pinchbeck:Totally. And there's no sound doctrine. Is there take the UK no sound doctrine. It's twisted. It's manipulated, manipulated. It's it's if you look at it from the outside. Yeah, I don't know not drawn into it. It is shocking. It is so shocking. Yeah. But it is quite amusing at times. When you see the blatancy this, I was watching this fella Duplantis, Jesse Duplantis, and he was saying he was saying, Ben, it was saying, you've got to sow a seed into my ministry. Oh, mine. And then he goes on to say, Oh, you say to me, when I saw a seed into my church, well, you've just missed directed your blessing. Because your blessing Oh, come when you sow a seed into mind ministry. And we're not talking about $25 We reach in and pull out $1,000 That that's where they it's a rendus. You know, we've got another fellow who's who's Penny is he's got a bit of credence. He's been on Oprah Winfrey. So he's done all that TD Jakes from potter's house in Dallas, and is a few Potter's houses around. But it'll say it'll say it'll say, the blessings in the last part of what you've got. So if you've got a wage say of 1000 pounds, right, and you've done all your, your monthly bills, and you've just got, say 100 pounds left if say give me that to give them lesson. Exactly. And if you look at some of some of these guys, the books that they write, and you know, I've got TD Jakes, he's got his book Gods provision is got instinct the power to unleash your inner drive, you know the road to your divine destiny. None of it is gospel centers gotta
Reverend Ben Cooper:be so careful. The big text amongst all this is ecclesiastics chapter Ecclesiastes sorry chapter 11 verse one, cast your bread upon the waters and you will, after many days find its return give a portion of seven, or even to eight. For then no disaster will happen upon you to the so they are manipulating cast your bread. But the Bible says put your bring it to the storehouse, to the storehouse, to the kingdom,
Simon Pinchbeck:bring it to the kingdom,
Reverend Ben Cooper:bring it to the kingdom, not to man,
Simon Pinchbeck:not to man, not so people because, you know, you've got TD Jakes who's got a personal fortune of over $20 million dollars. Wow. You know, one of the and I gotta say that when I was a young Christian, I read a lot and listen to a lot of Joel Osteen and Joyce Meyer, you know, because they're great motivational speakers do take out God out of the equation. They're really good motivational speakers, but, you know, look at Osteen, he's got a personal wealth of over $50 million. Wow. And he has 43 million pounds dollars a year going into his church on tithes. But look at look at the titles of his books. Yes, is is a motivational speaker. That's all he is, you know, he is on record as saying he believes that 99% of all people are not bad people. When we know that everyone has gone astray, we
Reverend Ben Cooper:all have sinned and fall short we're all we're all sinners saved by grace there's so much Scripture
Simon Pinchbeck:but look look at his titles of his books is gone. Your best life now. There's one of the titles that was my
Reverend Ben Cooper:best life now so I've got my best life now we're going to get when you get a rash This is a skip if this is it God I want it literally this if this what they say is this God of Israel I they want it
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, but through his book you can have your best life now which will put you at the center
Reverend Ben Cooper:so that knocks what heavens greatness before I've got this this is better than heaven.
Simon Pinchbeck:You've got 31 ways to say I declare over your life is allowed on these books. It's got think better Live better and you can and you will so all this is from this speaking into existence it's it's it's been a law of attraction the laws of attraction the laws of attraction laws of attract that's exactly what it is. Sorcery. The laws of attraction
Reverend Ben Cooper:and magicians which CRAF you know, you've got you've got laces, you've got strands of so much.
Simon Pinchbeck:And it's all loosely tied in because it's all done with a smile. Oh done what a great smile white tape and effect and lovely. Lovely presentation. Yeah. And it's all done with God wants the best life for you. God wants this for you got but you got to go out and you got to declare it. Why? Because and they'll all say this. Jake's Creflo Dollar they'll all say this. You are a God with a little j you are a little God dellosa hall
Reverend Ben Cooper:that also? Yeah, you were bounding into real real areas and we we've all this ministry all this stuff that is very, very dangerous. It's very dangerous and it's leading people to get in debt is leading people. So what happens then when God doesn't heal me when I've got these ministers that are saying, You're not meant to be healed? You're healed of cancer in the name of Jesus, you're healed. Go to the doctors you're healed and I go there and I still have the same thing who gets the blame? Oh, God gets the blame. God gets the blame. Why isn't God healed me? Why hasn't gotten you get all better? Why why why? Why you told me sir, you told me that God was gonna heal me. Why haven't I Why am I not healed? Why am I still why am I dying? Why have I got this? Why why why? Why God? Why actually? When did God tell you that?
Simon Pinchbeck:It's the same been I read the other day of a lady caught up in in Hillsong in London and she would is spending my no tomorrow debts of over 80,000 pounds credit cards maxed out why because she believes God's going to miraculously clear
Reverend Ben Cooper:them for it. Do you know what I'm going to take that one on? Barclaycard send me some more put crank me right up to 20 grand credit. I promise you Jesus is going to clear the deck. You
Simon Pinchbeck:Mr. Cooper hours are you going to pay for this Jesus
Reverend Ben Cooper:is coming, it's gonna clear it. He's gonna, that's a great one in it. So I owe you, I owe you until he comes back.
Simon Pinchbeck:Come on be real. This is not what this is not what the gospel. They are, as you quite rightly said a new Sunday. And you don't have to look any further, biblically illiterate because none of that is in
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't you won't find this in, in the in the God of Israel teachings, the God of Israel does doesn't put there. But what he does say above all, you must understand that in the last days, scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. The Scripture is loud and clear. It is easy, it doesn't. I don't need to be a theologian. Matthew chapter seven, verse 15, beware of false prophets. Interest, isn't it? Beware of false prophets. Prophets. So what is false? A false prophet will tell me that I'm, I'm wealthy. I'm healed. A false prophet will tell me I've got my best life. Now. A false prophet will say God has told me a B, C, and D days. Yeah, you can have it if you give. To me. It's that say it's a triangle. It's a satanic triangle.
Simon Pinchbeck:You could call it false prophet, but, but it's in the same vein, the false preachers and false teachers, and then their shape away from the pen. They're leaving on the way to hell. I mean, look, TD Jakes, as his protege is a guy called Steven Furtick. Rao. Yeah, Yes. Steve elevation, elevation worship. Yeah. You know, they've got some typical, like, Hillsong, Bethel, they have some great songs, you know, come to the altar is a great song from elevation worship, right? The 13th is on on record. He's on. He's out there, saying, He's God Almighty. And we're all gods.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lord, please help me. Please know someone
Simon Pinchbeck:saying that to you. You don't know the Bible, you sign? Whoa, little code. Yeah. How can you know you're, you're, you're above all, all this? You're, you know, you, you could you make yourself to bind to it,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're making yourself equal on almost elevating. So the word elevation in its own term is a very dangerous word to use. Because when you use words like that, you're using words. You're talking about numerology, you're talking about elevating, you're talking about astral plane in your talking about transcend or meditation. When you bring all this stuff together, sultry it is of the highest level of Luciferian worship, when you bring all this together, so that the whole when you look at the whole church, the whole batch of witchcraft is so much witchcraft. And I think the Bible talks about magic, be careful of the magicians. So this is nothing. No, it is nothing new under the sun. We have seen it in the Old Testament, we've got references to the New Testament. We've got Simon the sorcerer, He is the great magician. And then he even goes at the end to the two disciples. Let's buy a bit of the Holy Spirit.
Simon Pinchbeck:Can I buy that? Can I buy that? And this is exactly as
Reverend Ben Cooper:this what does the disciples say? How dare you make your money die with you?
Simon Pinchbeck:And this is exactly the same here where you've got people that have enormous wealth, you know Creflo Dollar for a million personal wealth private jets to get him all over the place. He's not shy at coming forward. You know, we we we saw that disgusting scene. Yeah, we've dollar jumping on the money show don't bring on money,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that that show. Any? How can anyone that is a believer in the gospel of Jesus Christ, how can anyone look at that and go, that sort of God that is blessed? That is just that is mockery. There is more mockery going on than we've ever seen. Act chapter nine verses nine through 24. Very interesting read now there was a man named Simon he practice practice sorcery in the city, and he amazed that people of Samaria, that's what we are seeing, aren't we? We are seeing people being amazed by the magic act, the bewilderment of it's something spiritual, if it's spiritual, it's got to be of God. And it says he boasts that he was someone great. He boasts he boasts, he was someone great and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention, and exclaimed, this man is rightly called great power of God. They followed him because he amazed them for a long time with his soul. I'm sorry. So this is nothing. No, the Bible says there is nothing new under the
Simon Pinchbeck:sun and and what did is sorcery? Get him? It got him money. It got him money. Yeah, the same as the as the guy that was making, making a small godson. That's right, the blacksmith the blacksmith does money from Yeah. 100% And
Reverend Ben Cooper:in verse 12 of Acts chapter eight, it says, But when they believed Philip, as he proclaim the Good News of the Kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized both men and women. Even Simon himself believed and baptized and followed Philip everywhere, astonished at the great signs and miracles he saw. But then he asked a dreaded question. Can I have some of that? I'll buy that. I'll buy that. See, it comes down to when you've got money, and sorcery and magic and witchcraft. It's attractive because that's what the script is. Is that what they was attracted to what they saw,
Simon Pinchbeck:it's usually attractive, you know, when you when you're offering someone who's on the breadline. Yeah, you know, the chance
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's right, Simon, you've got a chance to get that, no Telly, you've got the chance of getting no carpet, you've got the chance to climb the greasy pole of, oh, you know, and your business is gonna grow. How many times we had this one. If you're so that money into that you're going to be a rich business owner, your business will flourish.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, because God wants to bless you in all areas of your life, which is, which is true. He dealt God, he doesn't bless us materially, he doesn't bless his material and blesses us for what he needs us
Reverend Ben Cooper:to do think he first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything else and
Simon Pinchbeck:all this stuff. You know, I used to listen to a lot of Joyce Meyer, and you know, because she had a way of speaking, which really is attractive. It's attractive.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's every one of us has this area of the we are attracted because we are looking for signs and wonders and
Simon Pinchbeck:look at the name of a books, look. She's got power thoughts, powerful thinking power words, 100 ways to simplify your life. And all that stuff is very most attractive, and it's very attractive. But it's we don't there's only one self output we really need. And that's the Bible. Yeah, yeah. And all this stuff is leading us away from the Bible. Yes. Not teaching us really not taking it to the kings not taken us to is taking it to or it's taken us to man, it's me and man, you knew that God eudicot. And, you know, if that's not bad enough, when these people prey on people, that vulnerable, vulnerable people are really wanting just to get out of
Reverend Ben Cooper:get out of the humdrum of life just to break out, break out and
Simon Pinchbeck:like think, you know, it's, it's, you probably
Reverend Ben Cooper:come to this church and you'll be blessed. Come Come here, and you'll be blessed. Come and listen to this. You'll be blessed.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's not burning enough. Yeah. What is worse than that, which is all involved in the prosperity gospel is the health side of things. God so if you're, if you've got a sick child, and life
Reverend Ben Cooper:limiting people, yeah, I was saying you will be healed. Cancer is gone. Heart disease is gone, your legs gonna grow. And they'll say,
Simon Pinchbeck:the bigger your your offering, the bigger your blessing, the more you'll be blessed. And the more healing they'll be. Yeah. So you get someone like Benny Hinn, yeah. Who's whose personal wealth is well into the 40 Millions is nothing but
Reverend Ben Cooper:a soldier. It comes back to magic magician, magician, by waving
Simon Pinchbeck:your, your jacket over as they've gone, people fall over. They just caught up in
Reverend Ben Cooper:what they go by is that is that that that scripture done it where they said just by his shadow, they would heal by his shadow by the disciples shadow and all that sort of stuff that they manipulate. So we have a manipulation of the Word of God. And it comes back to the crunch point is that the church hasn't preached the gospel of Jesus Christ because if it was been preaching, see, when when you had someone like Dr. Martyn Lloyd Jones and you had these great men that was schooled in sound Dr. Leonard Ravenhill, Leonard right. You never had the wobbles as as you've got now, but because the government's are pushing out Christianity. There's a free for all. So there's so we've got we're in a nation that UK is spiritually in decline like never before, what is
Simon Pinchbeck:phone the phone away and He says in the power button that you know, in the last days, people will be visioneers. Yeah, that one of the biggest and scratched me back. That sounds good. And it's a rendus what is going on in the name of Jesus of Jesus in the name of God, you know, to the man who tops the wealth list, it would be no surprise to anyone to know his name is Kenneth Copeland now, now, Kenneth, bless him, he looks like a snake for me. You know, and I'll go back 15 years to listen to him on the Golf Channel. I always thought there was something not quite right. But he was delivering quite a, you know, a middle of the road message in Yeah. But now the GIS is off the charts when we've always were always performing, you know, and some of the stuff that is that is going on? Is I've been to his cottage is a compound really, I've been you know, I didn't I've been on the outside looking Eagle Mountain Church or whatever they call it. And it's got amazing wealth they reckon is somewhere around about 700 million is personal witness. You know, and is his protege who's got one you know, is Todd White, who's who's the Rastafarian guy. You've seen him who's very big on leg growing and the legs gonna grow all that sort of thing, but he's but the, the theology? I would say I would say Ben, it's these people almost leading cults is because the feet ology around these guys isn't biblical
Reverend Ben Cooper:isn't doctrine. It's not don't sound doctrine. Because when you get sound doctrine, it pushes away it pushes away very easily and very quickly, the false teachers it pushed, but so what happens is, when you when you do not read, and you do not study and you listen to man, you become what you listen to. If you because if you listen to all these ministries, and these false prophets and false teachers, you will be you will get caught in a false gospel. But if you listen to and read the sound, Faith comes by hearing the message and the message is heard through the word of God. It has to be the word of God.
Simon Pinchbeck:Then you listen to the sermon he's got or not. So I believe you listen to old, old steam, you listen to Joyce Meyer, listen to Jake's and they're all very, very good at motivational and they're all very good at leading you to the blessings of God, the God of the blessings. That's, that's where they're at. But this fella Copeland is off the charts. I mean, I don't know if anyone's watched him out there. But you got us on his on YouTube, saying he's gonna get rid of COVID-19 and billowing over the microphone.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Tony watched more and more funerals. People died of that then so where's that? I couldn't blow across the transatlantic ocean. Could he that's what
Simon Pinchbeck:it was. But America
Reverend Ben Cooper:flies. Yeah. So So there we have false prophecy, false prophecy, prophecy, just everything is manipulated, everything is shaped for further for the given that they are magicians, we have more magicians in pulpits than we do gospel brooches.
Simon Pinchbeck:Look, if you get a chance, if you're out there, do your own discernment. We're just putting it out there. This is the way that we see it. But you'll see you'll see Copeland and you'll see Todd White and they'll have the Bible in one end, and it'll be open and it'd be a big Bible, and it'll be falling out all over their arms. But what they're saying is not from the Bible. No. Yeah. Unless they've written one themselves.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, by the way, you know,
Simon Pinchbeck:when you when you hear some of the disgusting things to come out of Todd White and
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's mockery, we are we are living in a world that is mocking God and there is no separation between the motivational teachings the that what I'm starting to find in the last days the church is very small the Church of Jesus Christ the church is very small to persecute the church and look at the persecute the church against the prosperity gospel, completely the opposite, but they have peace beyond human understanding. If he was to take someone that is caught in these fake ministries and put put them with a Christian that is running for their life, what a difference of a lifestyle.
Simon Pinchbeck:Totally you know, God's gonna save you my friend, but you've got to give me what's in your pocket.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I got a watch this bullet past me hang on a minute. They've just cut my husband in two because he believes in the gospel of Jesus Christ. I've just watched my family be raped and beaten up for the gospel of Jesus. Where is the blessing in that? Where is this miracle? If your God is healing and doing what he's doing in America, and certain parts of the world and doing what he's doing? Why is he Why is he doing in that state, but over here in Afghanistan in Iran, and why are we being chased for what we believe in, if he's the God of prosperity? Show me,
Simon Pinchbeck:show me but but
Reverend Ben Cooper:different gospel, different gospel, different Jesus,
Simon Pinchbeck:but there's peace.
Reverend Ben Cooper:the persecuted church is the most peaceful Church on the earth. Why? Because it's the Church of Jesus Christ. They have nothing materially, the churches in Iran have been bulldozed there is no Christian Church standing. But the underground church is growing, it's growing. They got no false prophets, they got no false revival, they got no money, this stuff, they are alive.
Simon Pinchbeck:This stuff that these people are coming out with is very, very dangerous. And even someone like Rick Warren, who wrote the book, Purpose Driven Life, which is a Christian best seller all over the place. He's come out and said, it's very, very difficult to get into hell. It's very difficult to gain now what the Bible says it's a wide road at least. He's also come out and said, to be saved, you just got to believe in the love of Jesus. Okay, that's and and he's got a personal wealth of over 25 million root ones, you know.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So this they're leading
Simon Pinchbeck:people away.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when you look at the the persecuted church, and then you look at the name and climate how vast is the chasm between the two? It is so vast it's an interesting
Simon Pinchbeck:parallel Bennett so when you really look at totally Yeah, you
Reverend Ben Cooper:look at like, look at right now as we record this podcast, there are pastors being killed, being decapitated, watching their families being raped, churches being burnt down, killed, maimed, hands cut off, is being gouged out where is where is the blessing in that when you know it can't it comes to a point then it when you've got these two far ends of the stick? So where is God? I tell you where God is in the persecuted,
Simon Pinchbeck:persecuted this is this is this is a prosperity I wouldn't even I would I can't use a
Reverend Ben Cooper:prosperity gospel. I kind of use that No, I wouldn't use the word I've got a gospel.
Simon Pinchbeck:Gospel take take that out. It's there just is the prosperity common. That's what
Reverend Ben Cooper:prosperity magicians that's what they are Simon the Psalter as I have a scripture. Not either. But Jesus has a Scripture, we are still in Acts chapter eight. And this this sums this up quite well. When you think about this. When Simon saw that the spirit was now was interested in this part. It says in verse 17, when Peter and John placed their hands on them, they received the Holy Spirit. When Simon saw that the Spirit was given on the laying of hands of the apostles hands, he offered them money and said, Give me this ability, so that anyone who I lay my hands on may receive the Holy Spirit, Peter answered, may your money perish with you. Because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money. You have no part or share in this ministry. Because your heart is not right before God repent of your wickedness, money and ministry don't go don't go. Don't go. It don't go. It's the same. When you look at the church. Certain organizations, they have the finest art in the world, they home own so much land and homes and outside the church gate. There are single parent families begging for a loaf of bread.
Simon Pinchbeck:Crazy that Ben you know, in the UK, we've got premier Christian radio, which we
Reverend Ben Cooper:gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, gimme, give me give me
Simon Pinchbeck:I know. I used to give up when I went out of business I used to give a bit of Premier Christian radio and then stop giving they never even to this day they're on the phone to me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So Assange said
Simon Pinchbeck:can you do this get more and then stuff through the post? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know we're in a very our you
Simon Pinchbeck:might you getting Oh,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. Yeah. Can you just give we are very, we are at a very critical stage, aren't we within the world. We are at a very critical Stage in the UK, you know, we've got this prosperity, magician, rubbish stuff coming out, we've got the false gospel being peddled for cash. We've got fake prophets and teachers. And it's got nothing to do with lifestyle choices. Because above all this, I need Jesus more than what they do. Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah. I'm not saying that I'm better than these whatsoever. I am a sinner. I really am a sinner, and I need Jesus like never before in my life. And if he doesn't show up every second, I ain't gonna make this life. I can't live this life without him. It's not that I'm looking at them again, cause I wish I had a cut liquid after them. It's got nothing to do with that. I just need Jesus. I just need him. I just got my heart is aching for more Jesus, and you
Simon Pinchbeck:don't get it by giving someone money. But now he's there for you. Yeah, he's there for you what he's looking at your heart, heart
Reverend Ben Cooper:by the gift of salvation. This is why alien,
Simon Pinchbeck:and is the root of all evil, the love of money is the root of all evil. And these and these people are evil.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And then when you look at Christ, when He walked through Solomon's colonnade, he walked by uncountable amount of people that didn't get healing. How many people didn't heal? Yeah, totally. How many people in the Bible? Do we know that he walked by, and they did not get healed? Healing, you know, this is a really difficult subject that we're talking about money and healing and, and the gospel because there is such a thin, thin, thin line, almost, it is so dangerous. And it is it is, gosh, Lord, if I if God doesn't show up, I ain't gonna make this life. You know, it's not got anything to do with jealousy or anything like that. It's to do with literally, God, please help me, please, please help me. You know, we're at a stage, aren't we in the UK, where we're being managed by managers? You know, we need spiritual leaders, don't we? We need spiritual leaders.
Simon Pinchbeck:But they're not they're been. They're not. But there have been, I think, so what you have, we have to do in, you know, like we are doing is sharpen each other up, you know, iron sharpens iron, we need to be able to talk to each other and work through some of this stuff. And we were saying to people out there right now that, you know, please, you know, if you're looking at any of that stuff, from any of these people were mentioned, and you tempted to go out and buy some of these books and tapes, and given how old towns get in. And, you know, think twice because the gospel is kind of all you need. The Bible is all you need a good get to know the Bible first. You know, been, you know, the, the FBI in America. I've got account like currency unit. And do you know, how are they trained, the counterfeit currency unit is trained, they're trained Ben, to look and study the real thing, the real notes, and they spend hours and hours and days a month studying the real thing so that when that counterfeit comes along, they're now instantly. Yeah, so what we're saying here days, still not a real thing, study the real gospel, study the real book, in the Bible, know it, so that when a counterfeit comes along, you're spotting instantly,
Reverend Ben Cooper:amen. And that scripture leads us to you will know the truth. And the truth was, Hebrews chapter 12, verse two says, Keep your eyes on Jesus, the author and the perfecter of your faith, you've been listening to Simon and myself. This is#Christian straight talk very deep. And very interesting conversation this morning, we pray for all those names that we mentioned, God will set you free, and God will continue to work in your lives, and God will bring you to the truth. May God bless you to everybody that listens to us on Spotify, I Heart Radio, Amazon, music, and other social networks that we're on, but please, sister and brother, whoever you are, that's listening to this. Seek Jesus. It has to be the God above all things.
Simon Pinchbeck:Amen to that. Just one thing, before we go is that next week, we'll be talking about something that has gone rife in the churches, and that is the Kundalini spirit. So we'll be talking about on the back of what we've spoken about today. So So tune in again next week and and it'll be another revelation for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. See you next week. Take care, God bless. Bye. Bye, Simon. sign that check for us.