God bless you. God bless you, wherever you are across the earth, may the hand of the Lord always be upon you. Thank you so much for joining us, wherever you are today, across this planet, whatever your time zone is, God is with you. And he's with us. You're joining myself, Reverend Ben Cooper and my beautiful friend, Steve valor. And I've got to just lift him up one moment, not lift him up as a human being, but I just want to say thank you, God for Steve life, because He has blessed me. Through the Bible teaching, we have known each other just a bit before locked down, maybe somewhere around about there. But through locked down, God really opened up what Steve was doing through the word of God. And I'm so blessed to have my brother opposite this mic every week. And I just want to say thank you, God for him. You know, I know he doesn't like this. And I just say thank you, Jesus, and I'm very respectful to his life and his teaching. And we need more Bible teachings like this. We are in Genesis, a very interesting title that our brother is bringing to the table. And it's, do you believe in creation, or evolution, because your salvation depends upon it? What a title, this is going to be really good. This is going to be just perfect from the presence of God. I'm going to hand it straight over to my friend, Steve gobblers.
Steve:Thank you. Good afternoon, or morning or evening? Good morning. Wherever you are. Yeah, that title is provocative, and it was written to be many people would say, Well, this is a disgrace. My salvation is dependent upon my trust in Jesus Christ. And you're quite right, it does. But I want to develop an argument here. And so I ask for your patience. And bear with me. For the moment. I'm going to read Genesis one. And then John 1123. And the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God, all things were made through Him. And without him, nothing was made, that was made. A man released two scriptures, we have the affirmation of creation. And if we choose to follow an evolutionary path, yes, we are calling God a liar.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Definitely.
Steve:Jesus himself, when he was being, or is in contention with the Pharisees over why Moses allowed the divorce to or divorces to occur. He quoted from the time when God created Eve out of the rib of Adam, he pointed back to the origins of creation. And in that he affirmed the creation, which is not surprising, as though he was the one through whom it was all done. The reason I say that your salvation is dependent upon whether you believe in evolution creation, is because if you believe in evolution, then you call God a lie. You'd call Christ a liar. You're a liar. I don't believe what you say, I don't accept what you say. And if you call God a liar, I doubt the strength of your salvation. I swear I will wrestle with God over different things. But if one will stand out on the wisdom of man, rather than the wisdom of God, and reject what is in the Bible, because this part doesn't agree with my worldview, then you're in problems, you've got problems.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's beyond the word problem, isn't it? If someone were spoken as before, that I know that pastor that struggles with creation, he took, you know, we won't go into that at the moment. But what Steve just read out from one Genesis, it says in the beginning, God created so if you don't believe that, and you believe in evolution, how can you actually be saved?
Steve:I don't think you can. This is what I saw. I think if, if you if you're going to hold to the evolutionary line, the problem that you have there as well is that if you stay with either the Darwinian theory or or the other theories that about we come from spores throughout space nonrestaurant you question the validity of Christ Himself.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, you're right, because at the very beginning of Genesis of the 66 books, if you can't cry, and it's enormous to grasp, isn't it? But actually to say, I don't believe it. You can't be saved as in?
Steve:No. And as I say this, if you look at this, this evolutionary business that that we came from a blog on we grew up, then we have to understand that what people are saying is that within the DNA, DNA of Christ, who was true God, yet he wasn't true man. He was part IPE. Apart Spore,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it froze or whatever, and it feels dirty, then in what states market? It not how, how a bulk to say something like that, I don't believe because of suit that first six words that has come out of Genesis chapter one, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth that, that so you're cherry picking what you want to believe?
Steve:Yeah, but I mean, people do do that through the scriptures. You know, well, I don't know. I mean, you get the argument about whether God hates homosexuality. And then you get into all that. And we have to go back into Leviticus and go back and say, but that's what that means, and so forth. And then the explanation of Sodom and Gomorrah, we won't go down that track. But the the seriousness of the problem lies with the fact that we have 66 books in the Bible given to us that reveal the character, a person of God, who he is, what he does, when he's done, what he will do, and His plan for mankind, you're not going to find this anywhere else, you know, you can look through the readers, you can look through the Koran, you can look through anything you like, but you're not going to find Jesus in anything else, as the declared Son of God through whom all things were made, and indeed, for whom all things oh my goodness. And so this area of whether or not one wants to accept, or can't accept, shall I say that the idea of creation because of my scientific background, or whatsoever, at the end of the day, you have to deny yourself and go by faith. I mean, Jesus, itself, pick up the cross. That doesn't mean that you put on a hair shirt and beat the living daylights out, he said, part of it is denying your intrinsic nature and understandings of things when they run counter to the Word of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's very important that when it runs counter when it runs the opposite when it is pulling you away, yes into the worldview rather than into what the scripture says and go, do you know what, actually, I don't quite understand creation, but I believe it.
Steve:Yes. It's just a simple case of say, alright, Lord, this is your word. You don't lie. I accept it. I don't understand it. And some of it really gets under my skin. Yeah, because it does for all of us. There are things in there has to be done here because it shakes you up. It challenges
Reverend Ben Cooper:you It challenges makes you think makes you look at life makes you look at creation makes you look at the birth, the death, everything, doesn't it? Yes, everything
Steve:every Christian has ever walked with the Lord has been challenged by him through the Word. You know, some people. Some people don't like the idea of the conquest, which Joshua undertook into the land. Yeah, I don't like this idea that there were certain tribes that were wiped out complete Manimal child and animals, everything wiped out, don't leave anything alive, right? But you have to start looking at the reasons why these occurred. And again, that's something it's too long to get into at the moment. But we have to understand that he's written See, this is the other thing about God God never sweeps things into a corner
Reverend Ben Cooper:now. Everything is in the open everything up and yes, clear cut.
Steve:I mean, it calls David a man after my own heart, and then prints his story for us to read and you think Solomon's assign all of the people in the Word of God, yeah. They weren't, as James talks about Elijah don't want men like us with the same nature.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And that's, that's quite refreshing as if they were men like us. So that brings all of us into the US.
Steve:Yes, I mean, we we are all equal before God for one of about
Reverend Ben Cooper:a word nicely.
Steve:Because a man has been given a certain
Reverend Ben Cooper:gift, does data maintenance
Steve:better than the next man, we are all equal? Yes, whether
Reverend Ben Cooper:we almost can be in all of listening to people, or whatever that may be. We are all equal in the eyes of God. And he
Steve:chooses where he wants his children to be and what he wants his children to do. I mean, if you commit yourself to the Lord and say, Lord, let your will be done and they there has, I would say that for every single Christian, there has to come a point in their life where they have to pray the prayer. I don't care what you do, but let your will be done call.
Reverend Ben Cooper:reaching that point.
Steve:I remember Leonard Ravenhill, in one of his writings, he said much the same. But every Christian in truth, yeah, has to come to that point, we have to get to that point. Yeah, you have to come before God and say, you know, I hold nothing back, I give everything into your hands. And I say, let go will be done. Irregardless of how it works out on what you choose to do in my life. Because you have to put your life in the hands of God. And when
Reverend Ben Cooper:you do that, though, Steve, when you actually get to that sort of prayer, and you pray that that's when freedom comes. Because there's a part of us in humanity, even though we're believers that goes, I want to try and hang on to this bit or I'm drawn this bit on this bit that bit, but when you completely surrender and say, God, whatever you got to do, do whatever you got to do, and when you when you know that he's doing that, you actually get free from past things, you get this, this this this feeling that is beyond human understanding, where you just reach a place of peace.
Steve:I don't know we're always challenged by that as well. I mean, there are times when we just recently got challenged me over some things. Yeah. And I had to sit down pray it through yet seek forgiveness. Yeah. And so Okay, Lord, you know, I do love the scripture where it says Come let us reason together you know, he's gonna lose the argument Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. Reason I'll just let you do it. Just do it.
Steve:Come let us reason together settle. Okay, look, you got it. You got when you really think about
Reverend Ben Cooper:and is quite cheeky bit of text and it makes you chuckle I'm looking up into the universities great God and we reason think, hang on. It's like looking at my Hello, Dolly. And I'm a little tiny gonna get whipped around all around the ring of life. Now, Lord, you just do what you're gonna do.
Steve:Yeah, these challenges, like, Yes,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I mean, but that shows his gentleness as well, doesn't it? It come let us reason shows his immense love and everything, doesn't it? He military is he in God is extremely humble god of eternity saying, Come let us reason together.
Steve:It's an aspect of God that not a lot of people. Observe, but God extraordinarily humble. Yeah. Next time you fail up money, forgives you. Consider just how humble he is.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, we've no roof. Yet true. It's very true, isn't it? Yeah.
Steve:The other thing to go on to the business about calling Jesus a lawyer in Matthew 17. At the time of the Transfiguration when Peter says, Oh, look, there's Moses, Elijah and you and showing Mike three booths. The voice came from heaven said, This is my Son in whom I am well pleased. Listen to him. Listen to him. It was a command. Listen to him. And the statements that Christ has made throughout the Gospels, Peter in his one of his letters, he says, you know, we do not, you know, we're not telling you fairy stories. We live this, we know this. I'm paraphrasing, of course, and what we are here to tell you is the truth. That He is the God of all and his words are truth. His words are Yeah. And it's a case of, of accepting that. The other thing also, I think, we need to understand that when Jesus referred to what we call the Old Testament, He called them the Scriptures. And he called them the word of God. He referenced back to the Old Testament back back to or it went back to your Testament because it feel Yeah, but he was saying These are scriptures. These are the reveal words of God from Genesis to Malikai. Is it Melaka? was the last year Malakar? Yeah, I don't know if he's the last one. Or somebody said he is the only Italian prophet Malachi Malachi Yang, he's ministering in the four gospels. He references at least 15 books of the Old Testament. And he quotes the Old Testament over 70 times. And that's you for
Reverend Ben Cooper:asking for money. And for books.
Steve:We don't. At the end of John's gospel, he said, you know, if all if all right, everything in the world would be filled with books, that's really fascinating. Yeah, yeah. And so you can imagine that if the small amount that the Lord spoke about was recorded, we can imagine that his expressions of the scriptures would have been far more than just 70. Yeah, it would have been more and more and more and more, because he was always going back and saying, Look, you know, you, it says this in the word, but what it really means is that we were spoken about this about adultery. And, you know, if you hate your brother, you're a murderer. You know, he's always raising the bar, always, always raising
Reverend Ben Cooper:always raising the bar. And so
Steve:we have to understand that when he affirms the creation, yeah, we, if we say we are His disciples have to say, Okay, I believe you, I believe it runs against why I believe in my natural self, my scientific background, or whatever tells me thus, but I believe, I believe I believe, and there are plenty, there are loads of scientists out there that that don't get hooked up on the area of the creation, they're very much for the area recursion. But the other thing that I would contend with as well, is that there are people that try to explain the seven days of creation, or the six days plus the seventh is 1000s of years.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, they do. Yeah.
Steve:Now, if you try to do that, again, you have a problem. They are six literal days, because the seven because the several die on which God rested. The doctrine of the service is predicated upon there. And the doctrine of the service, when you start looking at it, it finds its fulfillment in Christ. And the true Sabbath rest is in him in him. So if you start monkeying around with yours doc on yet, you are running into brick walls,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the same again, you're hitting walls, you're hitting barriers, you're making things up. You're believing your own writings. Yes. You're stretching it. You're pulling it. You're you're you're way off point. Yes. It's as simple as that. In the beginning, God created Yeah. Because creation is such an important understanding, isn't it? Because when you get we're not when you get it, because we'll never get it. But when you start to get an A slight understanding of it, it seems to cement and concrete so much more. All the way through. Yes. It has to be creation there
Steve:are. Is it my monitorings? I can't remember it's one of the rabbi's. He, through his study of Genesis came to the conclusion that there are 10 dimensions could fall that we can know. And six that we don't. Now, that has only actually been proved through science in the past few years, really, but he wrote about it. He wrote about dauntless Yeah, a long time ago. And Paul speaks about it in one of his letters where he says that you may know the height, the height, the Brett's Yes, length, and a depth is four dimensions to this for there. Those are the four dimensions that we know of. And the thing is that all so often, science really is playing catch up with the word of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I actually love that that that is so true, isn't it? Science is so far behind the word. It's years 1000s of years behind.
Steve:I mean Isaac Newton when he was I mean, he's absolutely brilliant scientist. He said, You know, we study the creation that we might apprehend God. He understood. I mean, as I say, the man was brilliant. But there are certain things that in the word it talks about a God rolled out space like a scroll he had, okay? Well, only recently, in recent years, probably in the past 10 years or so, the scientists come to the understanding that the universe is finite. They always thought it was infirm for nine on and on and on. But when they started looking at it, they realized it's finite. And I saw a presentation of the it was a digital presentation of the universe. And it was almost like a doughnut shape, really. And that was the it's wearing out. Wow, now the scriptures talk about Yeah, the does cosmos were out. The other thing, there are other things that within the scientific community that they came to understand that smallness, there comes a point where you can't get any smaller. Trying to explain it. If I take a measuring stick of 12 inches, yeah, I cut it in half in order to get to six inches or cut it in half. I'll get for three and keep going. And you get this idea that you can go on, infinitely infinitely. But you can't can't point where you can't
Reverend Ben Cooper:do it. You can't do it. You can't say you can't do it. No. And it comes a stop point.
Steve:I think the scientists that came to this understanding was black called plank. And he looked at both the the macrocosm and the microcosm and cultural understandings. And basically, all of it is spoken of in the Bible that there will be an end to things that there is a wearing out, there's a stallers cast out this creation like a scroll, and he will roll it back again. And that also there's there was a study some time ago, about the fabric of time, that there is a sense whereby it does actually move. Gosh, it's very, very intricate. And most of it just went straight over my head, but sitting there listening to it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, the Bible is reliable. Yeah. speaking loud and clear. Yeah.
Steve:And so this idea that if scientists were more like, Newton, they will probably find out far more about Yeah, because they're trying to prove their pet theories.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, trying to prove that God doesn't exist. When to prove that God does exist. God would expand the thinking in the mind. I mean, they hit walls aren't they look at the Hadron Collider that far suns a major colossal amount of money just to find nothing. Yeah,
Steve:and there's a lot of people saying that there's there's more to it than just a scientific experiment. Yeah, there's people saying that there's a demonic aspect Yeah. To definitely yeah. But this
Reverend Ben Cooper:creation the world is chasing it, isn't it? It's trying to grasp this, this this this explosion of word God God spoke and this we came in and creation time
Steve:The thing is that if you if you follow on from an evolutionary point of view, yeah. Once there was nothing and suddenly there was something well, what does nothing look like? What does not what? What is the nothing what is nothing?
Reverend Ben Cooper:We don't know what you can't nothing is nothing. Yeah. So from nothing, you get nothing nothing. So you can't zero plus or equals zero nothing.
Steve:If there had to be something and this, this, nothing had to be something. It makes no sense to have. There is no concept of nothing.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There can't be nothing, and then
Steve:suddenly exploded. Nothing and suddenly we are living in a world which is populated by all kinds of species of animals and the brain breakdown of the human body alone is
Reverend Ben Cooper:incredible. It's just phenomenal. The body, the eye and the fingers, the sensors, and the whole part of of life of life.
Steve:I mean, I think going back to Darwin Darwin's insight, we were just a bunch of machines. As science has gone on, I mean, to be honest, there's an awful lot of science, I believe in a Darwinian theory anyway. They just keep it going. Because if they say they don't believe in someone's gonna laugh about
Reverend Ben Cooper:their job. Oh, yeah, of course. Yeah, definitely.
Steve:But the worst is I keep regurgitating it in schools and the kids come out while we wait, we came out and laughing
Reverend Ben Cooper:was airy. Yeah, we kind of
Steve:hang on. But, again, this area of holding to belief systems that are based in man's intellect. Back in the 19th century. The students in seminaries and in colleges that were studying divinity, where was printout spoken of in those days? What often at the legs poured by people over the Hittites speaks of the Hittites and nobody could find anything about the Hittites. It was they just couldn't find them find it. And then one day, somebody found something about the Hittite. So we've got so much information about the Hittites net comes out your ears. But then someone says, oh, yeah, but that's not the Hittites of the Bible.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's, that's the one. That's not then one has anything. Now it's not they're not they're not, then it's not that. It's that happens all day long. Yes, yeah. But creation is such. It's beyond words, isn't it? The power of God's spoken word. And God said, Let there be and there was the power of word, the power of speech, the power of creation, through the voice of God. How you when you look at nature, when you look at the beauty of flowers, the grass, how the grass grows, how the flowers, the bees, the it just
Steve:wants the whole interaction of the natural, the natural world
Reverend Ben Cooper:together. interaction. I can't understand it. But I'll never understand it. But I just believe and the more I look at the beauty of it, I go to God, the more you look and stand and just see the beauty of creation.
Steve:Someone probably good idea or Karma? Yeah. When, when somebody who doesn't believe in God looks upon a wonderful sunset. Who does he thanked for it? Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thank God for that. Yeah, exactly. It's funny, isn't it? What they will say? Yeah, like, when you when you look really,
Steve:truthfully, if you push that whole area of the supernatural everybody, not everybody, but the vast majority of people think they're gonna go to heaven, even if they don't believe in it. Yeah. Well, there unless you're Elon Musk, and you don't mind going to hell.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. God,
Steve:the with regards to the way we think and why God thinks. And I've already already referenced in the Corinthian letter, that God's wisdom is foolishness to men. But his wisdom is far wiser.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And that's amazing scripture.
Steve:If we go to Romans 12, it says, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you might prove that good, perfect and acceptable will of God or basically what that means is that as your mind is changed, you sink the salts that are God's salts. Yeah. You understand the things that God understands. We have the mind of Christ, as Paul said, very powerful. That's a developing mind. You know, we, the mind of Christ is a given no birth, and it develops through study through prayer, through the action of the Holy Spirit in a person's life. We can resist his work within us. Unfortunately, we do at times we grieve Him, we quench him. Thankfully, he, he does not depart. I will never leave you nor forsake you sizzle, and keep going. So no matter what we do, he he never leaves us.
Reverend Ben Cooper:FIFO is faith, faith faithful.
Steve:And so there's this the challenges for the Christian Who wants to hold to a world view? That is not biblical? The challenge is will you accept the truth of God? Or and will you allow the Word of God to bend you? Or will you want to bend the Word of God? Yeah. We these are the challenges. Every Christian has these challenges. This isn't just your harness
Reverend Ben Cooper:again, you can't escape them. No, no, no, no, this is not just for the internet.
Steve:We are challenged in various areas of our life differently. But if, you know I, I think that if you have these extraordinarily brilliant men, will extraordinarily brilliant minds. who come to the conclusion that there is no God. I feeling currently sorry for them. It's very sad. All I've got is their own mind. Yeah. And that will deteriorate. And when they die, and there will be nothing left. And it may well be that their books will be forgotten. And whatever they write about, gone, gone, disappear, someone will supersede them, and take over from them. And they will be forgotten, gone. The
Reverend Ben Cooper:but also, we're sorry, Steve will also weave when you when you study in and look at creation. It actually takes you took we talk about spiritual warfare, and Lucifer and all that quite a lot in what we do. But when you study creation, and you really focus on this enormity of how big you suddenly realize that the devil is just, it's nothing. Just see what I'm getting that you study the greatness and the sovereignty and the power and the spoken word. And then suddenly, you hear all this stuff about deliverance, and you think you're off. You're off point, if you was to study creation, you wouldn't even worry about all that spiritual warfare you are looking in areas that you don't need to look in. Because if you come to an understanding and you look from Genesis one onwards, God created the heavens and the earth and studied the greatness of God. Suddenly, you're not giving the devil anymore airplay.
Steve:No, but the devil won't give up in what he's doing. He
Reverend Ben Cooper:was no he was, he was still oppressed. And it's it will make you stronger, won't it? Yes, I
Steve:think it will make you stronger. But there are times when we need if we are plagued by a religious spirit yet, and if we are plagued by insecurities, and if we are plagued by a sense of worthlessness in a worldly
Reverend Ben Cooper:in a worldly sense.
Steve:The devil, my chi,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, well as sons, and we
Steve:are there to support one another and to help one another. The Yes, it is good to look at the area of nature and it does pour oil on troubled waters, yes, he does. But the unfortunate part about it is that we still have to go back to our own house,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you still you still gotta go, you still got to walk the boards of life. And so
Steve:when it comes down to whatever someone goes through, whilst we can help and the, the, the view of nature, the beauty of nature, can give ease and peace, when we consider that is God has created it all. Often these things are dealt with by God very, very gradually. I know from my own background, that to go from insanity to sanity, you can't you don't jump
Reverend Ben Cooper:not a leap it. It's not like it's a journey. It's yeah, it's a very great gradual, day by day, moment by moment. And
Steve:I I look at my mind now. And the mind that I've got now is so totally different to the mind that I had 40 years Yeah. The dark misses that were there. The nooks and crannies that were there. The physical pains that were here, the doubts and the fears. These were all dealt with by God, gradually, piece by piece by piece. We all want the answer straightaway. But God knows what he's doing. My gracious. He's the builder. He's the master builder and certain so to consider it. I mean, one of the things is, if I can do Well, I can make a step forward by saying, This is the Word of God. And I believe it. Yeah. This is the Word of God and I believe it. That in and of itself lays down a very good foundation within oneself even if you don't really. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Even if you're not conscious of it, it lays down a foundation. And it's a foundation upon which God will build price God, yeah. Because your mind statement, you've accepted that this is the word of God, that faith, you've made a commitment in saying, I believe, I believe you. And therefore from that point forward, God will build and strengthen and change. But when people are in those kinds of conditions, it's it. It does take time. It does take time,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the journey of life walking with Christ Christ walking with us. Creation is just enormous, isn't it? When you when you really start unpacking just that one line alone and God created the heavens and the earth that you can spend a lifetime just just in one one verse
Steve:Yes, I mean I to be honest with you I'm not the brightest bulb in a box but I'm really looking forward to exploring these things yeah in God yet when when we find ourselves in our new body
Reverend Ben Cooper:price go the
Steve:X to experience God but to explore him. What was the old Westminster catechism what is the chief end of man to glorify God and enjoy him forever?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, enjoy him forever. And why is there so much to know isn't it Oh yes. Endless so much to know everything in Christ and even in verse three it's and and God said let there be light and there was that
Steve:I could go on about that for quite a while.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, but that that statement that just that powerful and God said, and there was and there was
Steve:the cracker familiar when he separates light from darkness. I've often thought that light except for those light from
Reverend Ben Cooper:the set. Yeah. The separating. Yeah. And God saw tonight and God saw
Steve:it. You have to consider this that if he hadn't separated light from dark? Yes. See the emanation of the sun?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes.
Steve:Definitely because the sun just emanates
Reverend Ben Cooper:yet the light which the light it's it's so powerful. It is so beyond the test job. Oh, well, it takes faith to believe I believe so. Just in that one line, isn't it and God saw that was good. And he separated the light from dice.
Steve:That's a new setup. Right? What about that yielding to God? You Delight yourself in God. You Delight yourself in in considering him considering what he's done considering what he does. You Delight yourself in the Lord.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You just smile on the inside, doesn't it? It makes you Yeah, in all in this or have he separated light from darkness. It was joint it was connected but he made a separation.
Steve:pulled it apart. Hold it apart. Epic's is and it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:all that stuff is just it must blow. Atheists scientists absolutely off their tree when when, when a Christian comes along goes. This is one of the kids has created the heavens and God created and he spoke and there was like,
Steve:if anybody is kind of struggling in that regard, I would suggest that they look at someone like Professor John Lennox,
Reverend Ben Cooper:get,
Steve:you know, Northern Irish? Professor? Yeah. Who is often taken on Mr. Dawkins and Mr. Hitchings. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:they're good debates and are very good activists, man
Steve:who is absolutely steeped in science extreme Stichting Christ as well.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Mathematics as well as that, right? Yeah, I think in the whole bag. He's just like everything. When you listen to it. It's like your eyes spin in your head. It's amazing. Oh, God gives the gift. You know, it's just so powerful. Steve, are we gonna are we gonna roll this one out?
Steve:I think we've we've all I would suggest to anybody that coming back to that first challenge. Do you believe in creation or evolution and Human Service depends upon it. You have to honestly consider that if you are calling Christ a liar. You have no part in him? No, you have no part in it. That isn't to say that he won't rescue you out of it or that you're, you know, he's not working on you. Yeah, yeah, quiet. But if you're adamant. You have to understand if you're being aggressive, you are calling him a liar, he affirmed creation. He all things were created threats. Dr. Singh, I want you to read. i This is a beautiful piece of scripture. And it's the doxology, at the end of Romans 11. And it I think it it fits in well, that for this, it says, Oh, the depths of the riches, both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God, How unsearchable are His judgments, and His ways past finding out For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has become his counselor? Or who has first given to him, and it shall be repaid to him. For off him and through him and to him are all things to whom be glory forever. Amen. And that to me, sounds Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:sums it up, puts a full stop on it. Yeah. And finishes. It is a massive, massive study, isn't it? But God has given us that we need to look at it. We need to understand it to a degree and believe it and Jesus just dropped that line and a bother the fishermen just believe just believe so much in that isn't there. Steve, thank you so much. Wherever you are across the world, we thank you very, very much from very much. We thank you so much from our hearts. And may God bless you and please share this stuff out that has been spoken about shared about pushed around over two mics today. Thank you. From the very depth of our heart. You can find us on Buzzsprout Spotify I Heart Radio, Amazon music, Alexa, Spotify. Thank you so much. God bless. Have a great day or a good evening. Have a wonderful morning or whatever it may be. God bless