Thank you for joining us today. We are in our studio we are recording we got beautiful brother, Steve with us today I'm just trying to read this title, my brain is washing all over the place. We are in a little pod room. And we are recording today. And this is Ben and this is Dave and we are going to be recording a very interesting podcast as a follow on from last week why we believe in what we believe. And it's pushed on a little bit further. And the title of today is the sons of Issachar. And the Bereans. Is that correct? The noble bereans, the very noble bereans, so if you're in the world of podcast, and we thank you so much this is raw, completely unedited, in any way, shape and form. You will hear the tapping of tables. You'll hear us drinking coffee, you will hear a sneezing COVID flying everywhere in the name. Oh my goodness, what was that history we've been through COVID God bless you, wherever you are. May God strengthen you never give up. We are living in really powerful times. And we welcome our brother to the mics today. We got Steve, Steve Valerie, if anybody needs to know anything, because we've said for anybody needs to know anything goes Chuck Missler. If anyone needs to ask anything, don't ask Chuck are Steve. We're in. We are here in all in all seriousness, you can contact him here through Elim church, and we thank you for the 1000s of downloads that we are seeing across this earth. Come on steve shall we go. We get in?
Steve:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, as you said it was this is a follow on from last week. Why do we believe in what we believe? And the importance of it? Yeah. I'm going to read two scriptures. One from one Chronicles 12 And verse 32. This is when David is gathering his army Ziklag. You have the tribes coming with all their various 1000s of men, and give you kind of descriptions. This one in verse 32, is very significant, it says, of physical men who had an understanding of the times to know what Israel ought to do. And that is very much needed today. Yep, we need to apply that today. And then we go to x 17. And verses 10 to 12. The brothers immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. And when they arrived, they went into the Jewish synagogue. And these Jews were more noble than those in Thessalonica. They received the word with all eagerness, examining the scriptures daily to see if this thing if these things were so many of them, therefore believed, were not a few Greek women of high standing, as well as men. Right? So you've got a situation where the sons of Issachar, which was a fairly small band of people, had this understanding of the direction in which Israel should go. So we as Christians should have understanding in Christ, the in the direction in which we should go to die. And I don't mean in the sense of the Great Commission, because that stands before us. But in how we fulfill that commission today, and how we are to live our lives as the world moves further and further towards the end times. And the need for being, like the noble Bereans is don't take anybody's word for it, and need to search the Scriptures. You need to hell understanding. There are a lot of people out there, like me, and you been wanting to tell people the truth, but we don't always get it right now we don't do. It isn't a case of purposeful falsehood, but it, you know, we'll misquote scripture, or we'll have a misunderstanding about a scripture that sometimes that can be just a misconception on our heart. But it can also be something which is purposeful. And you have to know if what the person is saying is correct. Now, for instance, there's some chat. I think he's African has come out with a statement that Jesus is not the creator.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Our whole goodness, I've got to Google him later, okay.
Steve:It's, he's on YouTube. I can't remember his name anyway. But of course, you've only got to go to John one, and it says, John, one or three and it refutes the whole thing. All things were created through Him for
Reverend Ben Cooper:him by him and so forth. Yeah. All things well, yeah, Kinsey, what do we there's that.
Steve:But then we have others that would come out with statements within scripture to support their own position. And we all do that to some degree.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it can be done not so easy. Yeah. Because of, of just a bit of an understanding issue, isn't it and just getting the real biblical truth of
Steve:it. I mean, all, as Christians, we go to the Bible, we don't rely on our own opinions, we have to know and understand what God is saying. And then from that, we give the understanding which we believe to be there. Yeah. And as I say, we may have that right. Or we may have that wrong.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But also yours as well, like me in the Pentecostal movement, years entrenched in certain areas of Scripture, when it could be one little degree Yes. And that little degree has taken a big, big route. And over the years, it's like a, it's like breaking terreno trying to tear a tree trunk away, because it's fixed in your mind. You know, it's not quite right, you're trying to address it, but you're trying to address your thinking. So it comes back to that what what you've said a very, very long time ago, about sound doctrine is critical. Keep in the word, yes. And then interpretation, isn't it. And it makes sure that I'm not interpretating it to fit my circle. This is the
Steve:thing, it's so often you will get people they'll get, they'll take the old terms of proof text, they go in, they'll take a line out, and they'll apply it. And so this is what it means what it means. To some degree, I've done it this morning, but I've only done it in as much or this afternoon, I've only done it and as much to to highlight the need for understanding our direction in this world. We have to know that. You know, as much as I don't like watching the news, I've got no real time for it. Or watch it or look at it. Yeah. To see what's happening. Yeah. All right. Yeah, I have to understand. And then I have to look at what the Word of God says.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the toe the run to run a tour, the tour running together, but obviously, we know the greatest strength is the word of God.
Steve:Yeah, I get for instance, at the moment we've got the business people are pushing this business of, of transgender. Well, that's not in the Word of God. Yeah. But you will find that there are people that call themselves ministers of Christ that will support it. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I have definitely.
Steve:But they end up denying, you know, in the beginning, God created man and woman. Jesus affirms it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. You know, oh, yeah, we know where to climate isn't.
Steve:And all that is, is just this romantic nonsense of, of what they think love is, yeah, well, if if love means I'm going to allow someone to do whatever they want to do. And it runs counter to the Word of God, then I'm really not loving him. No, that's why he's speaking the truth. Yeah, you know, we all do things that make us feel good. But it doesn't mean it's right and right. This is the thing, right? So we have to judge our actions according and our beliefs according to the Word of
Reverend Ben Cooper:God. So feelings are different to belief. So we unfortunately, they tend to bleed in and they can almost bleed come across as a problem. But that's that. Yeah, that was there is
Steve:a vital difference between feelings and belief. And we can easily cross over and go, Oh, yes, we have to make sure that our feelings and the things that we believe in, if we are Christians, if we say we belong to Christ, we have to make sure that the way we believe in the way we live, is in accordance to the Word of God. We do not seek to see the word of God changed the way we believe. But we have to seek to change in accordance with why the word of God is yes. Yeah, for instance, there was talking about using scripture to support your particular position. I was watching a guy who makes a boast of being a theologian, and he's highly educated and all this and the other. Yes. I mean, there's no two ways about it. But he was it was part of the Southern Baptist Convention, which is a very strong, very strong movement and yeah, in America. Yeah. And they are primarily Calvinistic. And this guy wanted to take up an argument against the Calvinists, of whom he was numbered at the time with regards to the area of salvation and mortgages and and, and so on, and so forth. So and I've listened to various arguments about it, and I know what I believe, and I know why I believe but it's okay. I want to hear what you have to say. So he started to talk about salvation and how is that you've got it wrong because it's it's not monotheistic, it's this and the other and so forth. It brings in man's own belief and his faith and all the rest of it. And of all the places he could have gone to the Bible to support his argument, he goes to the prodigal son. Now, if there's anything that the prodigal son is about, it's got nothing to do with salvation, no, nothing at all. No. As a theologian, he should have known from the beginning, the son is returning to his father, as someone who is dead in their sins. God is not the father. Now, right? He's a father in a general sense, and as much that he has created all things through his son, he's a father in a particular sense towards the Jewish people, because he has always, they've always looked upon him as a father, but he is a father, specifically, to those who are Christians, that those who believe in Jesus Christ, He gave them the right or the power to become children of God, and therefore they can call Him Father, father. So if we go back to the prodigal son, we've either got a situation where Jesus is talking about those in Israel, that have moved away from God and can come back and come back, or we can use it as an application of a Christian who is born again, who falls away, if you like, in that sense, it goes back into sin goes away, but comes to his own sense and says, I've got to return to my father. Yeah. Why could to my father will, because he is my because he is my
Reverend Ben Cooper:father, there is nowhere else to go go back to God. Now. They meet him for the first time. Yes, that's right.
Steve:To use the application of the prodigal son to argue about a certain point of salvation. I was setting her and I thought was supposed to be clever. PowerIQ that completely? Yeah, yes, I have all the arguments that you can Oh, yeah, hold a scripture. Bring out and for me, good. You're straining and that you really want to prove a point? Yeah, you're so eager to prove a point. And that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:another thing. That's another thing when you're so eager, that's the flesh overtaken, isn't it? You I'm going to tell you this now. And that's it. That's why I'm right. You're wrong at it.
Steve:And as I say, you can argue about synergism, monetarism, and whatever you like, and you can bring various arguments from the Bible to bear. But, you know, at least choose the right Oh, human, yeah, you know, don't pull something out and yet, and then try and bash it and put it into shape. Well, that's it just doesn't make any sense. So that's why I say that we have when we read the Bible, we have to have understanding. That doesn't mean I'm completely right. It doesn't. Yeah, but a cursory glance of that particular parable. And, as I say, from his his point of view of being a theologian, there were certain points there that he was completely and utterly wrong about. And so it just shows that the people who, according to the hierarchies of education, so this man knows what he's talking about. Well, in that particular case, he doesn't doesn't. Yeah, all right. And I, as an ignorant, lowly Christian, who's got no qualifications whatsoever, can say, according to the Word of God, you're wrong,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you're wrong. Perfect, isn't it? Your call the only things.
Steve:And so the point is, that's what we have, we have to be there, we have to. This is one of the reasons why we have to read the word, understand a word. Because there are things that are approaching us at the present moment that are causing people a great deal of fear. Definitely, unless you have the word of God there. Your your fear is not going to decrease.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's correct. If we keep looking at the nodes and looking at what is happening to the world, and don't look to the word. Firstly, we understand that the word has already spoken. And in telling us what is happening. The world is only doing what the world has already said. Yeah. So that will for number one that will give us peace. But if I don't go into the world, and I look to what the world is doing, I'm going to find myself in a right mess because it could it does look bleak to the world.
Steve:Yeah. And the other thing is that we have to strive as the Bereans did, yes, to search the scripture to prove what is true, so that we can have beliefs. We can read. I mean, we've all changed understandings over the years. There are things that I read years ago, I don't see it in that way anymore.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But that that's a journey. That's a journey of faith, isn't it, but you have to start to start to start. You have to so we're in that journey. And we know that over all these years of study, you know, I'm looking back and when I read it now I can see a bit more and God has opened up more, but we have to start Yeah. And what we got in, in the church within the UK, there's no starting block. It's like not even it's just for so as you're right. We have to examine the Scriptures every day that we Every moment examined praying through.
Steve:I mean, it doesn't see this is the other thing that I think a lot of people probably are, I've got to do this and I've got to do it. The why of studying scriptures, it's not like an academic thing. It's not like, oh, like, sitting in a lesson. Now at school, I've got to, I've got to learn.
Reverend Ben Cooper:On finding God is revealing, revealing. Now, I've got to be careful. I say this. When I say God is revealing, as as I just sit in as I'll be still, and I pray and even when I drive, and I just just speak to God, in prayer from wherever we box that I'm finding that the scriptures are being downloaded like never before. We'd really interesting the way way things move, isn't it it kind of
Steve:it, if you will, it it. It mirrors Daniel to some degree where God says seal it up until the right time, you know, so a lot of these a lot of stuff that's coming out now. And a lot of stuff that we understand was never revealed in the past. I mean, if you go back to the time of the reformers, a lot of them looked at Revelation. And they had some very strange understandings of what Revelation was. A lot of it was, as far as I'm concerned, it was all symbolic. There was very little of your real and actual, but they were living in a world. The only way they saw say the Antichrist, as far as I was concerned, it was the Pope. Right now, to some degree, you know, it could well be out there. All right. Yeah. Well, we aren't there. I mean, good. Well, both it or whatever. But the point is that they categorically said, No, it's the pope because they were fighting against the Roman Catholic Church, which was ruling the known world at that time. Or certainly the non western world. And so do they filtered everything through their experience? Which is something we all do to some degree? Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:we do do that we filter through our life that in our in our stretch of our life we do,
Steve:what we have to learn to do is like, dear old sounds of ethical, look at what's going on. Yeah. And then look at the word of God, and in seek God to find out what direction we go in.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's always coming back to Christ. Yes, Christ God, Holy Spirit guidance. Can you open the Word up to us? Can you speak to me? Can you read in a text? Lord, can you help me to understand this? Can you reveal this? So it is always about being in the scripture in Scripture, the Scripture being revealed that
Steve:point about please reveal it? That's an ongoing prayer for any Christian? Yeah, that's not a one off.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's not a one off. That is that is all that should be probably right up the calendar of the list of things.
Steve:Romans 12, confirmed that this will be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you might prove that good, perfectly acceptable will of God. That's not one off No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's ongoing, ongoing, ongoing, ongoing scripture that Steve has bought for anyone that might have missed that references, Acts chapter 17, verses 10 to 12. It's really a sign again, God is definitely opening eyes. You know, I've read through this. Goodness knows how many times you know, and I think that can be dangerous as well connect Steve, you know, when we might follow certain ministries, you got to read the Bible, within one year, you start reading and within one year just to go, I've read that, you got to be careful problem
Steve:with that is that yes, it can. This is a problem. It can put an unfair weight on people, I would encourage people to read the Bible. But I wouldn't say you've definitely got to do this. And you definitely got to do that. In many respects, it's a case of law. Show me how to read this, show me what I should read,
Reverend Ben Cooper:glean, meaning leave me and give me understanding. It's
Steve:not a case of what I do. It's a case of asking God to show me a number of times. I've come before God in a word and I thought, I don't know where to begin this because the thing is that once you start on a particular subject in the Bible, suddenly you're off I mean, there were times I thought I don't do it so much now because usually electronics but before all the electronics come out, I used to sit at my table at home and I'd have all my books spread out all over the place I mean, looking nice and looking in there and look but I do much the same now with with the tablet or what Yeah, but yeah, it is it once you start to start it opens up so many ways,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and you can't find the end of it. No, no, You never can never get to the end of it. You never will and that is what's so glorious about it. But that script I was gonna say Acts chapter 17 verses 10 through 12 is a really interesting read. Now the brand Jew was more noble than his character of the of the Salonika, my eyes on it yet, for they received this message with great eagerness. and examined the scriptures every day to see if Paul said was true. That really? So
Steve:if Paul comes along and says, Well look, you know something about the launch return, what's going to happen? They will hang on Zachariah say something about that. And I go to Zachariah and have a look.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's really, it was to the great eagerness, eagerness that was eager. They examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
Steve:And sometimes studying the word can be overwhelming, because there was so much there. There is the white, the white Scripture is very, very heavy. The Word of God is extremely heavy. Yes, it is. And there are times when you're overwhelmed by the weight of it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, sometimes I read a bit. My eyes are spinning in me in the head, and I have to get up and go for a quick walk around the corner and come back to it. Yes, just try and stretch the legs. Because as you said, It's heavy, isn't it? It is very much heavier in a beautiful way.
Steve:Yeah, but nevertheless, you still it's still there are times when it's not so much exhausting. But I need someone to help me pick it up. Yeah, yeah. And I really need God to help me to lift yes, that word and have understanding of it. I mean, again, one of the reasons why I think it's it's more necessary, necessary than before, is because of what we see globally. Happening feels like the world trunk doesn't wait. If you look at the various warnings in Scripture about what's going to happen at the end of time. Most people are the go to place for Moses is sort of Matthew 24. And, and then they'll go to Timothy and Cecil and Ionians, and so forth. And then revelation. And especially the Four Horsemen after he's been set free yet, are they going to be set free? Are they only going to be set free at the time of the Great Tribulation? There were all these things Jesus talks about in Matthew 24. The birth pangs, yeah, the birth pangs. And the thing about birth pangs is any light lady will tell you is they they grow in intensity. And they also shorten in time. So whereas they might get ya get a twinge at one point, and then they won't get another twinge for a little while longer as it grows as the child wants to come out. Yeah, the Pines grow in intensity, and the time between the pain shorten the shortens, and that's where we are now. You know, the pain is so short. I mean, you think about it. We had two years at a pandemic. Yes. All right. And they're suddenly what we thrust into? Well, we're thrust into the fact that we've got a war going on in Ukraine. And we know that there's going to be a food shortage. We know that we've got oil shortages, we got gash, but you think it's so ironic? If you really sat down and thought about it? Why is it that these people are so short, when all they've got to do is increase the production? Because they can, they can do Coffea? So that, again, is something else behind this? Yeah. So it's not just as in that there is the control of y where we are right. And so this is why we spoke we spoke about.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's not because so far as listening going the food shortage, the Scripture tells us that in about a famine is not so much the food is short, it is because the control is controlling the holding.
Steve:I mean, I can understand why the oil, what if we look at oil, we know that the fall, which Mr. Biden has made, America has caused all sorts of problems, there's no two ways about it, he because he was so sold out on his particular way that was going to happen. And so that's it, and it's, it's increased the it's not decreased the production of oil, but it's increased the fear that there will be less oil. So it's pushed the price of the price up, the Saudis could produce more oil, but they're sitting there saying, now we're
Reverend Ben Cooper:just sitting still,
Steve:two years ago, we will earn anything because nobody was driving. Now we're in a package. So now we're not going to produce anymore. So there are all these things.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So So, Biden's made a mistake. So from the mistake comes control in a different way, doesn't it? So all the from from error. The thing is,
Steve:we control we know that it's Satan is in control of the world, that He is building up to the revelation of the man of sin. This we understand. And we don't have to understand the politics we just look and see. Okay, these things are going pear shaped And there's a lot of pairs right wrong. There's a lot of things going wrong. And if we look at, as I say, Matthew, you've got fairings, you got wars, you've got rumors of wars. And I understand why there's going to be a food shortage because you crying to somebody Griese a breadbasket of the world. Yes, Canada and so forth. But so you can look and say, yeah, there's gonna be a famine price. They're talking about increasing food by 15% by the end of the year. That's probably probably talking about 25%. Yeah, so you know, if you've got if you've got your if you're if you're buying 200, and joiner pound now for your shopping bill, yeah, it's gonna cost you 250 pound.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And then on top of that, we don't even want to mention the hike and everything. So each household is under serious financial strain. Yes, everyone. Yeah. And so this is why
Steve:when we come back to reading the Word of God, if I do not grasp the Word of God, I can't find comfort and
Reverend Ben Cooper:peace, find peace and the anchor point to hold steady in the storm.
Steve:And the belief that all though it's all going pear shaped, he's gonna look after me
Reverend Ben Cooper:that so there's another area of study in that, isn't it that it's gonna go completely wrong. But his faithfulness, his sovereignty, His power, His love will make a way where there is no other way. And this is where we will really see the love of God, I believe, providing and making ways where these Jericho, Jericho codes are so high, everything is so against, then suddenly, there's provision that
Steve:this is one of the reasons why it's necessary to make sure that we are in any part of the church. And I mean, the real church does not line up with anything that's coming out in the world at the moment is false love this business about? You know, you can choose your gender. No, you can't it says it in a word. So I can't sign up to that. Homosexuality. Yeah, we all love one another. No, it doesn't. You can't do that. It says in the word prosperity gospel. And all that she was very gospel at that point is going to get an Amarin. Well, the thing about it is that according to them, you only get what you give to God. All right, exactly. Or more to the point or to give to them give to their ministry. But the thing is, we got it gives graciously. Yeah, we don't purchase
Reverend Ben Cooper:his blessing. You can't out give him No, you can't give him
Steve:but the thing is, it has to be fight in him not fighting some little twit on the TV wants to jet.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's right. And there's another issue with this with this money ministry business that's going on. If if people are being squeezed away, they're going to be squeezed, they're not going to be able to give as much as they give. So there's going to be a real serious position where people are gonna go well, I'm never going to continue to give my 50 pounds to that ministry, or withdraw it. And then I'll put it in the house. But they're going to feel so under pressure because the drum has been beating you if you if you give and give and give God will provide about two
Steve:years ago, when all well yeah. What's his name was going on? And people losing their jobs? Yeah. Mr. Copeland came out on TV and he said, Don't choose stop typing. Don't use. He said, If you find, I need my upline, if you find that you've lost, yes, in order, whatever you do, don't stop tithing. Oh, my goodness. Now, in all fairness to the man, he didn't say, stop tithing to me. He said, Don't stop tithing to your local church. Yeah. But nevertheless, that in and of itself brings a pressure to them that so many ways, if you stop giving, God's not going to look after you
Reverend Ben Cooper:that that is, and that that is where these prosperity preachers get people in fear. They're not giving out a love and complete faith. They're given that if I don't give this 50 pound, God, you're gonna cut my supply chain.
Steve:Well, funnily enough, just recently, in past days, weeks, the Southern Baptist Convention, last has actually come out and said that the prosperity gospel is not biblical. Excellent. Let's take them years.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because they've, they've give all their money to it. But this is where we are, isn't it? So there's choices on the table where believers have been sowing into these false ministries, and they've been sown for so long. And they've been thinking that they're sowing as when actually the sign hasn't done anything or it's done. They've been sowing into something that's not gospel, so it can't so there's coming a point where there will be people go, I can't give any mortgage, but if I can't give God's gonna cut me out of the chain,
Steve:see this the other point about Scripture as well and this is something I've been praying, I've talked a lot about it on where I, I, I believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are for today I do not believe in the cessation of the gifts, right listen to the various arguments as to why they are not around for today. And for me, they don't hold water. So what are Read in the word is that especially in, in the Corinthian letter, these are for to die. Now, when Paul talks about his ad posture, his apostleship was affirmed through the gifts. I think, what with regards to the apostles? Yeah, I think they were given all the gifts, all the gifts, all of them, they were given all the gifts Wow. And so when they came into town and I did something as the gifts not identify Jesus. But what they did is they were in an arguable truth before the Jews that this was Messiah. So He then gave those gifts to his apostles so that they went out and said, Look, we are from Messiah. And a certain proof is by these things that happen around us. When we get to the Corinthian letter, Paul starts talking about individuals operating but he never talks about someone having all the gifts or gifts. No, because all the gifts are for someone who is an apostle, and there aren't any any more. Yeah, right. Yeah, the only apostles around the term means to be sent. And I'll find most of them for the apostle sitting in churches wagging their fingers telling people what to do, actually, you should go because that's what you're if you're on a potluck, and that's it. But the point being is that there are no more apostles because there's no one around met Jesus, or knew him
Reverend Ben Cooper:that that word apostle is very, very alive in certain cultures. Well, we know they tagged themselves up with all types of names. Yes. So there's another area and it because the parcels are now quite lazy. It's just not really so tight title ship this day and age is is no good. No more. It's not
Steve:conservative. I've always been an ignorant schmuck. But the thing is that with regards to the gifts, they're there, okay. We have had over the years, people that have made the gifts.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But the guests won't operate outside the word. Will they
Steve:know, but we've had people over the years that have in the way they have, quote, operated the gifts brought the gifts into disdain. And it's one of the reasons why you have especially people in in the Reformed Church. So the gifts have passed away, okay, because what we see and what we observe, this is a nonsense, I mean, people rolling on the floor and barking, and you can't
Reverend Ben Cooper:find it in a word. Get your dog biscuits on the way. Again, we
Steve:come back to the word it can you find this in a word? Do you find people rolling around? Laughing? No, no, you find people whooping it up? No. Do you find people waving flags? You just see gold dust? No. Do you see Angel feathers now? Go to what they support is enough. If it's in a word, fine. If it's not in a word, check it out. And so what we have to do is say no, your gifts are real. If you believe as I believe the gifts offered today. What we need, Lord is to be brought to a place where we can be and I'm going to use a term that people might not like, but we have to be brought to a place where we are worthy of being used. Now, I don't mean a sense of worthiness with regards to salvation, because none of us are, but it does talk in a word about walking worthy, according to your call. Herman Yes. All right. So we have to walk worthy in accordance with our coins. So our moral life and our life with within scriptures shows that we are of Christ. That's right. And if we can live in that way, by the grace of God, because God do it in any way, then we will be brought to a place whereby he will trust us with His glory. And thereby, the gifts can be distributed, and they won't be stuck up on a stage. On doing now, he won't be put on a TV, but it will be something within the body. If we look at the breakdown of the medical situation, in this country, in America across the world, we see that the doctors can't cope the datas can't cope nurses can't cope strangely and what they can't cope well if we kill off the kids, then we won't have to worry about it anyway. You know, we've we've got a move for euthanasia. I mean, I found it just as an aside, I didn't know the other day in one of the Scandinavian countries. If as a child if you want to kill yourself, you can
Reverend Ben Cooper:nah, yeah, they'll assist you.
Steve:If you're kidding, and you're feeling depressed When you want to die, I can't remember which country it was. But I saw this gem news how Gen TV? Yeah, I saw Marian. And so this build, we are at the end door. Well, the point being is if they can't get you in the womb, they will get you when you're out after you somewhere. Well, yeah, they get you somewhere. So you know, 500 500 million kids in a box, you're not enough, we got to kill off your goodness. And so this whole business now is,
Reverend Ben Cooper:is a business major because medicine is a business medicine is the biggest business of being
Steve:J jabbed with a soup that nobody knows whether it worked or not. Various reports of people here, you know, double jabs. What was it I was reading the other day that they were looking at various people that had died. And in this particular place, the majority of people that died had been double jacked or something like that, I mean, attributes things, or I don't know. But what I'm trying to get at is that the whole structure of the medical profession is
Reverend Ben Cooper:breaking down. Yeah, we can see that really clear, can't we, as Christians, we
Steve:are in the greatest need. Now seeing the gifts of God, yes. operate in the body of Christ. It definitely, that can only come by God saying, Yes, I will give you this gift, I will give you this gift. And I will give you this, you can't claim it. Now,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's interesting what you're saying. I know we've said it before, but it runs very perfect, really night with what Steve is saying. There are so many schools and ministers and schools of heat and all this come for 12 weeks, give us a few quid and at the end of it, you'll be called a healer that that's not the gifts come from God. Yes. That's very clear, very scriptural. No one there is not there. If I've got this right. There is nowhere in the Bible that reference that a that a believer or a teacher can hand the gifts over as you can't, there's no references there not at all. There's no biblical reference to say
Steve:nearish to get to any area. And when there's a thing today about the transfer of anointing it was supposed to have happened between one of the Geoffrey's brothers and Reinhard Bonnke. Are we
Reverend Ben Cooper:act right? 60s? Yeah.
Steve:I think they get this from Elijah and Elijah. Okay, I want to double a double portion of your spirit yet. And as it says, where if you see me department, you'll get it. And so people I want to double portion of Chris, I want to be really powerful. I want to really do I want this and I want that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But when the icon I want I want it that's not that's not a call in is it is I want? So anyone that is really cold don't want the coal in?
Steve:Well, no, because it is if you really want to be a prophet, if you really want to read what happens to prophets
Reverend Ben Cooper:get Yeah. All right. We'll see you hanging upside down in a few weeks.
Steve:I mean, people, people are all these people that Jesus is turning up in their living room, or a bedroom or a bathroom or wherever he's turning up, you know, and I'm going to, I'm going to send you out and you're going to be standing in front of these people, and you're going to do this and you're going to do that and deadly dark, deadly dark. And what did he say about Paul gonna show this man where he's going to suffer from my
Reverend Ben Cooper:namesake? He's going to suffer for my namesake.
Steve:I mean, all the stuff that comes out that, in all honesty, guff is Yeah, so self promotion,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think it's a lot of sorcery as well. I think there's a lot of psaltery at the moment, witchcraft and all, that black magic is a lot of stuff in the spiritual world that is very active and being dressed up and you being labeled up in what we said they were up in.
Steve:Yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm a little bit, whilst I understand the demonic realm is there and I understand how powerful it is and so on and so forth. I often find my teeth get on edge a little bit when you know, when he's demonic. Well, no, he's responsible for what he does you. It's easy to say it's demonic.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It says the devil did it. They will know what
Steve:it's done. He might salary deception, but in giant is it's James he says that. temptation comes when you pursue your lust, yes. Isn't it? Is it not tempted to follow your lust, your lust
Reverend Ben Cooper:your your time? Do you are very instrumental in your life? Yes. Very instrumental.
Steve:You can't say the devil made me do it the devil, right? It's just an excuse. I mean, you can get yourself in your in black magic and all sorts of stuff. I know that I understand. I'm not foolish. And there's something that reminds me something I wanted to bring up. But at the end of the day, we are responsible for what we do. And if I said this last week, if I go into a supermarket and I steal a bar of chocolate, and it doesn't matter whether it was on the floor, oh no. You know, I am a thief because I stole a bar of chocolate and you chose if I prophesy and it's false. We know from Peter, that no prophecy, no scripture comes from a man's will. It comes from God. Yes. So if I prophesy, and I lie, I have to say I'm the lawyer. Otherwise, if it went wrong, the Holy Spirit is the lawyer. You. That's the only that's all you've got. There's no other ground to go on. I mean, you can offer again, well, you know, I've got 60% rights, what about 40%? That you didn't get right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's just mind blowing that it's all Guffin. It's all hot air, isn't it going on?
Steve:I mean, when you look at, I think it's somewhere in the region, there were 300 prophecies that Christ fulfilled in his lifetime. Every prophecy about Jesus, during his lifetime on this earth, He fulfilled, it was fulfilled, and he still got ones to fulfill, when it comes back, he comes back. So full fulfill, fulfill all of those, you got to fulfill all the ones that come later. And so if we start playing ducks and Drakes with this, and this is why I say that we've got to be very careful with regards to the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I mean, I have seen people who, you know, say, people get wheelchairs, I've seen these things,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but it's very few and far between.
Steve:And so really, truthfully, if we are going to come to that place, which I believe we are, we're fanning all sorts of stuff. This is why we need to be grounded in the Word of God. Because the other thing about it is that we must, one of the reasons that we have to be grounded in it, because one of the worst things is to be desperate. Yeah, right. Now, if you're desperate, you could desperation that drive you into sin,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yes, it will drive you and make you do things. So if you
Steve:look at something like the market a beast, I personally think that we will know the man of sin. And I believe that there will be a challenge about whether or not the market is taken. People might disagree with me, it's entirely up to them. But this is the way I read my word. I believe that the rapture will happen. midterm, I see that man, a man of sin revealed, and I believe that there are certain things that will be brought about that we will have to fight against. I will remember the story about Polycarp, the bishop of Smyrna back in Burleigh and rounded in wherever it was. And in those days, the equivalent of the marketer beast is that every noun in Roman citizens had to approach a dish of incense. Take a pinch sprinkling or fire and say seizure is God or Caesar is Lord. And Polycarp said I'm not gonna do and he was like, he was no man body. And it's certainly a picture so we got to do it. So I'm gonna do your dies while okay. He said he's never let me down. I'm not gonna let him down now. Yeah, try ended up dying. Yes. It was a kind of equivalent thing. And if you go back to the Maccabees when Antiochos Appa foreigners, went in and took over Israel. There are similarities there. With regards to the Antichrist, and what demands were made. You can go back to Pharaoh. We knew that with Pharaoh. If, if any of the children were found to be circumcised. Yeah. You know, they would get the midwife. So you know, he told him if they have any kids, if their boys kill him, right. Yeah. And they went back. So noted there too quick for us. Please, before we get there, so you've always got this.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Seeking, you've always you've always got Yeah, it's always there. It's always got an infection.
Steve:Yeah. All right. Even the protection of someone like Polycarp was given the grace to face what you had to face. Yeah, that's the thing. My grace is sufficient for you. That's it. So the point being is, this is why I say that we must not be desperate. No, we desperation. Yeah, Desperation can drive us into the same pit. Well, Polycarp was not desperate. So it wasn't driven sin. Something I want them to pick up with regards to this business about the devil made me do it. I was reading something about Katy Perry the other day, you know, Katy Perry. is strange to me. I know nothing about it. Except I think she's a singer. Yes. I understand. You got that right. And she said something it was this thing was printed up. I wanted to be like Shania Twain who I believe is another so yes. Okay. I'm sure you all wanted to be like Shanaya Twain. Yeah. But I didn't want to put the work in. So I sold my soul to the devil. Yeah, I
Reverend Ben Cooper:Over the next while I got a while ago,
Steve:and somebody put this out when these people say these things, this is it and you've got to be careful. And this certainly sounds awful. And and I just clicked, obviously on Facebook, I just wrote back I said, Well, it's difficult to buy off the devil what he's already got. You still got to sell and he's already already gone. Oh, so your soul. Now I know a soul belongs to God, it doesn't belong to the devil. So I was certain amount of tongue in cheek, but you cannot sell your soul to the devil. No, it can't be done now. Because now you might enter into some sort of Yes. Whereby you become more demonized. Yeah, but you can't, but you can't sell your soul. Now. You know, that's it don't mean, you've only got a look at the chat. The blog had 6000 demons in him. The Idris has come along as he get out and I will run into the pigs. Yeah, you know. So, we, this is again, why we have to understand, be grounded in a word. The other thing that astonished me about this particular thing, as well as the number of payments of wagging their fingers at Katy Perry, you know, almost like my sins not as bad as those. Well. If you start thinking like that, you're in trouble. Your attitude. If you start thinking that your sins not as bad as somebody else is, then you got some problems.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You got some big problems, big problems. Yeah.
Steve:Because you're not going to be of any use to that girl. If ever she can't use soap for prayer. That's right. Yeah. Again, why we have to read the word, we have to understand what's in Word. We have to seek God for the word to change us. I know lots of people say well, we have to allow the Word. I'm not a great believer in allowing God to do anything because he tends to be king. So is happening, but there is a sense whereby I have to recognize my pride.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Pride is Zeke things pride of unforgiveness.
Steve:And I have to seek God to change me. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's a journey isn't it? Yeah,
Steve:it's not a case of I give you permission that is not catering. It is a case of law. I'm I'm really I'm I'm so bad. I'm bad beyond bad. I'm I'm so corrupt. I need you to change me. It's not a case of allowing him to do it. I mean, desperation. I'm desperate for change my Yes, definitely. I yearn for a long for change. Ego Yeah, very much
Reverend Ben Cooper:what that what that scripture says that we're looking at they they eagerly search they great eagerness, I want to know I've got to change and I've got
Steve:I want the I want to know what the truth is I want to know who is speaking about I want to know this man Christ I want to know God the Father want to know the Holy Spirit these you know, it's not a case of giving God permission now it's a case of crying out save me so this is the other thing today. Something that one of the things that lots of reformers really understood was you need to cry out to be saved. It's not a case of Oh Jesus, I'll give you my heart today. It's a case of I am in desperation or needs I need a savior
Reverend Ben Cooper:again, again, eagerness crying out calling, help,
Steve:help. That's something that we'll we'll look at another time. I don't really want to go debt because I've got an eye on the time. So to go down a particular route that Tiger's eye or an office easy The thing is that we we have to be something like the gyla when Paul and I think it was Silas were locked up and the the earthquake came and the prison was Florida throw open forum Joseph on done and posted No, no, no. And he came up with such conviction that these men should not run away. There's must be something about these blokes because I've been looking at prisoners for years and soon as that doesn't turn around, and it came under a great convincing What must I don't resign? What
Reverend Ben Cooper:must I do? What? Beautiful the Scripture is absolutely so powerful. So glorious. You know, Steve, we've we've come in 50 odd minutes we've done already. So yeah, we're there we are. We are at the door. You know, so much good stuff come today, and we thank God for Steven, the ministry could just
Steve:come on. Yeah, I would encourage everybody to read the word it doesn't matter. How much you understand at the moment. Very true, if your desire as was the desire of the Bereans God will reveal the scriptures to you and he will cause you to grow in understanding No, that's it. Yeah. Don't have to go to college to understand him. If you read Corinthians. Yes. Let me read this because read it. Yeah, you can read that Corinthians is, is. It's, you know, we hear a lot about. I'm not disdaining people to go to college because I'm not so I don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:know, I think we know we know you're not. We get that.
Steve:Because there's a lot of people who are not
Reverend Ben Cooper:great eagerness. It says in Acts chapter 17, for those that want to be a reference, Acts chapter 17, verse 10, to 12. With great eagerness, they examined the scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true. But this is
Steve:from one Corinthians and we pick it up. chapter one, verse it for the word of the cross his folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved is the power of God for ease written I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and the discernment of the discerning old will. Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where's the debater of desire? Is not God might furnish the wisdom of the world, for sensing the wisdom of God. The world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach, to say those who believe. Produce demands, demand signs and greet, seek wisdom, but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles. But to those who are called both do angry, Christ, the power of God, and the wisdom of God, for the foolishness of God is wiser than men and the witness of God is stronger than men. For consider your calling brothers, not many of you will wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful. Not many have no birth. But God chose what is foolish in the world to shine the wise. God chose what is weak in the world to shine the strong. God chose what is low and despised in the world, even the things are not to bring to nothing things are so that no human being might boast in the presence of God, because of him, you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification, and redemption. So that as it is written, that the one who boasts mostly middled
Reverend Ben Cooper:our man, there we go, finished on the Word of God, thank you Jesus. Started on the word stayed in the word continued in the word of finished on the word may God bless you. Thank you, Steve, for everything that you brought to the table because God has laid it on your heart, have a wonderful afternoon, wherever you may be morning or evening, whatever your timezone is within this world and keeping the Word of God you can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, I heart, radio, and many other platforms that we are on, please share this stuff out. And thank you for everything. And for listening. It's just just wonderful. And it's just, it's just great. Thank you so much. In the mighty name of Jesus. God bless, amen.
Close:Thank you for listening to Elim church Swanleys latest podcast, you can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, Apple Music, or iHeart radio, Google Play, Alexa, Facebook, Instagram.