Hello and welcome. Thank you for joining us today as we gather across the mics, we've got our brother Steve with us. As we just open up the Word of God, Steve will lead us into a great title today and I feel this is gonna be a good one purely just on the title alone spiritual warfare. And we thank God for Steve's life and wherever you are across the earth, may God bless you and strengthen you. And may the hand of God always be upon you. And thank you so much for sharing everything that we do here Elim church right across the social networks right across the world of podcasting, and you can find us on all them platforms, but thank you so much. God bless you, Steve. Good afternoon, everybody. It is afternoon. Yeah, one o'clock,one o'clock. Steve, lead us away. Let's get straight in.
Steve:We're gonna look at this area of spiritual warfare, primarily what it is rather than what it isn't. Okay. So pick it up, first of all, in the first letter to Timothy. And begin in verse 12. I thank Him who has given me strength, Christ Jesus our Lord, because he judged me faithful, pointing me to the service, that formerly I was a blessed, famous persecutor and insolent opponent. But I received mercy, because I had acted ignorantly in unbelief, in the grace of our Lord overflowed for me with the face and love that are in Christ Jesus. The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am foremost. But I received mercy for this reason that in May, as the foremost Jesus Christ might display His perfect patients, as an example, to those who were to believe in Him for eternal life, the king of the ages, immortal, invisible, the only God, the honor and glory forever and ever, amen. Wow, this charge I entrust to you, Timothy, my child, in accordance with the prophecies previously made about you, by them, you may wage the good warfare, holding the face and a good conscience by rejecting this, some of my chip wreck of their face, among whom are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan, that Elaine may learn not to bless fame. So there's a in the past several years now, a couple of decades, really. We've all been exposed to this term spiritual
Reverend Ben Cooper:warfare. Yes, we have.
Steve:But very few people really understand what it is
Reverend Ben Cooper:used very loosely, isn't it?
Steve:It's it primarily. It's been reduced over the years to, you know, Satan, I bind you and a cast you out and all this nonsense. Whereas in truth, what it's about is if we go to this, Second Corinthians, verse 10, I pour myself and treat you by the meekness and gentleness of Christ, I who am humble and face to face with you, but bold toward you, when I am away, I beg of you, that, when I am present, I may not have to show boldness with such confidence was a count on showing against some who suspect us of walking according to the flesh. Whether we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war, according to the flesh, For the weapons of our warfare and not the flesh, but we have divine power to destroy strongholds. We destroy arguments, and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God and take every thought captive to obey Christ, being ready to punish every disobedience, when your disobedience is complete. And so this area basically is the pursuance of sound doctrine, and how one thinks, as a Christian, and how one pursues Christ, as a Christian. And the warfare is against those things which are in our mind, in the minds of other people. We present the gospel and it is the gospel alone, which has to take preeminence in our life. And where we see people Paul here saying to Timothy, to wage the good warfare, yeah Holding faith and a good conscience in it goes and says, By rejecting this some of might shipwreck of their faith. Well, what are they rejected? Well, they've rejected waging the good warfare holding face. And a good conscience is a quite possibly that they've gone pulling off after things that are not scriptural. Okay? In Jude, Jude says that we must contend earnestly for the faith. And again, it isn't. It's not fighting people in it's not fighting demons with empty prayers, but rather, obtaining the truth in wisdom through the word of God, presenting the truth in wisdom of the Word of God. And first of all, in our own lives, dealing with these thoughts which raise up against God, pride.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Aragon lusts last,
Steve:these very things that we've all experienced them. The mind wants to go off in a particular direction, it's the flesh, and our warfare is no, we have to fight against it. We have to warfare against that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's very interesting, isn't it? The warfare is against yourself. But the Pentecostal movements and certain evangelical ministers and all that put so much weight on Lucifer, and he's the devil is telling me to do this do that, when actually, it's enough on its own, to keep in the sound doctrine of the Word of God. Follow that. And then when we follow that there's a wrestle within ourselves to keep following the truth.
Steve:Yeah, we have to understand that Satan is behind all deception. And we are fighting against him. There's no two ways about it. But you're not going to get anywhere by saying I bind you and Lucia and all that nonsense. The only way that you can be set free in your mind from the things that would rise up against God, the arguments, I don't want to do this, why have you done that? That I deserve this? I deserve that all these fleshly things that come up? You know, why? Why is this happened to me? I mean, how many people have cried epic question why why is this happening to me? And yet, when we were talking about the Sermon on the Mount last week, yeah. That those who are meek are those that accept whatever has happened to them, whatever is coming, whatever is upon right because it's in God's Will revision and will. And we say, Lord, let your will be done. You can't pray the Lord's Prayer prayer that you will be done and not mean it if you can't mean it don't pray it yes, very very true. Let ESPs in you know now Yeah, that's a no till such time as you're able to product properly that product I'm
Reverend Ben Cooper:proud to set that that's fact to the spiritual warfare flag has been really wave for so strong for so many generations and almost with the wrong understanding of the tech within itself, isn't it rather than understanding that the and whereas that scripture My mind has just gone blank where it speaks about the Kingdom of God take it with violence? or violent violence? That's it Yeah.
Steve:Men take it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's that's quite a as a as a very powerful text, isn't it that you have to be not violent in the sense of wrestling with your, your neighbor, but the spiritual endurance and the press? Just keep going keep going. You've got to be in a
Steve:yes. In a fight your flesh, you've got to fight against the
Reverend Ben Cooper:the once the wants the urges,
Steve:and the empty philosophies, remember, me be captured by Mt philosophies. When he is talking, I think it's in the collection letter where he's talking about following after. Yeah, those people who think they know the law we have to be very, very careful. I mean, the number of Christians for instance, that still maintain that we should observe the Sabbath. Whoa. You know, when I've asked them about it, I Yeah, but but that's but that's ever that's continuous that's going on forever, and we use those the whole of God's commandments. We either find that we rest in Christ. Or if you're going to try and keep these commandments in and of yourself, you're doomed. You're doomed,
Reverend Ben Cooper:because you have to keep them all. Yeah, every one of them
Steve:is impossible. I mean, if you want to keep satisfying Yeah, if that's if that's what you want to do good. Many Jewish brothers. They do. Okay, fine. That's no problem. You know, do so. You know, let one day be on to the Lord and on the other IBM is dependent,
Reverend Ben Cooper:but gotta be careful of religion and haven't yet becoming entrenched in this, this monotony of fire, don't do it God aren't going to be happy. But there's
Steve:a tendency, quote, there's a clue that this warfare isn't a great site. And because he says, By rejecting this some of my shipwreck of the fight, among whom are Hymenaeus, and Alexander, whom I've handed over to Satan, that they may learn not to
Reverend Ben Cooper:blaspheme. So that before they were handed over, where were they, where
Steve:most commentators believe that what they sees is that Alexandria and harmonize, harmonize is mentioned in one of the other texts. And if that's Alexander, the Coppersmith, yeah, he's mentioned as well. Something that this is excommunication, they're put outside of the church, because they are not holding to, to sound doctrine, not holding to the truth of the Word. And so this Shinrin our faith aid is shown this faith is based upon is not based upon rather a sound doctrine and the truth of the Word. So whatever faith they had, he's easily shipwrecked, because they are blown away. By it. They've been blown away by new ways of doctrine. Yeah. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's happening a lot, isn't it now? Oh, it's always there isn't this putting out but so to the the key element here is always the word keeping the word, the correct interpretation of the word, stay in the word, ask God for, for him to reveal it, to open a Word up to keep understanding what are you saying? What is your purpose? What is your plan? What is your meaning? What do you mean through this scripture? Keep asking, and keep praying and keep moving through the word of God. Because any one of us can make any of that sound. We want it to sound. Yes. And that's easy, isn't it? When the flesh
Steve:so it is. But you, you always find that the Spirit of God will always convict you always at some Yeah, even if it's some months down the line, or even years down the line, you know, it comes to says, you know, you've got this wrong. I mean, we should all be in that position of saying, Look, this is what I hold to be true according to my understanding of the word. But Lord, if I'm wrong, teach me otherwise. Yeah. Because I'm here to honor you and glorify you not honor and glorify Me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the to the spiritual warfare is an has been taken, isn't it true? A lot of Pentecostal movement movements are really loud and noisy and shouting and hollering and screaming Trump's and when actually, it's just hold on to the truth. Oh, my gosh, this lockdown did a lot to me, I tell you, but
Steve:but the thing is, you say it's anything like that's attractive to the flesh.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's noisy. It's loud. Oh,
Steve:what? What's hard? Well, I'll tell you what's hard. Being in your own bedroom, yeah, crying out before God. And beseeching God to deal with things within you that you can't do yourself by facing things that are there that are wrong, even as David said, search me out and try me. Oh, that scripture, I searched me and we have to pray this prayer, search me out and try me you have to pray. It's a prayer them we need courage to pray, but we need to pray it. And if we do not hold to the truth of the Word, we shall be handed over to sight. And our lions will be seen to be showing will be seen to be that it's following. So if we look at the the climate and climate gospel, yes. All right. The Gospel in quotes, which they provide, like they sell, yeah. It's got nothing to do with the Bible. No. Nowhere in the Bible certainly in the New Testament, is it that you purchase God's blessing is nowhere and even when you look at the ties that yeah, commands in the Old Testament.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's not for a purchase, is it?
Steve:No, he's rebuking them because they're not bringing in the tide to support the temple. Yeah. But they think that they can just do as they please. They treat God with contempt. And all these people are purveyors of this nine and climate gospel. They never tell you to send your money somewhere else.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Please send it to me to PO box that's basically it isn't it is
Steve:whenever you listen if you want God To bless you, because we're coming into a very difficult time now. You need to honor God with your substance. And to be able to honor God with your substance you need to send your money in, and the phone lines run. The whole thing. It's a joke. It's
Reverend Ben Cooper:the phone lines are open, God has told me that
Steve:I might pay attention. When somebody says, Look, you need to give your substance to God. And right now, the Indian church is suffering and need your money, the pastor stop saying we'll need your money. The Afghanistan church is suffering, I need your money, the Chinese churches suffering and send your money send it to them
Reverend Ben Cooper:so. So into the persecution, yes. So into that not so into the false selling triangle that's here. Yeah. So that's, that's, that's very interesting that the persecuted church, when you look at the persecuted church, they don't ask for money, do they?
Steve:Where are you very rarely very rarely find that mission groups? Well, but yeah, but we really want this morning and actual facts of a pastor in India. That was beaten. And is, is him and his family had to be taken out of the area. And he faced medical bills and all sorts of stuff. And the missions mission India, who support them, help pay the bills and so forth. Not once did they ask for money? No, they asked that you would pray for
Reverend Ben Cooper:that is what I hear through this world of persecution is please pray for us. That's all I hear. Please pray that please pray for us. That's the I've never read have never seen and all the times that we've been looking and studying going through the persecuted church, anywhere where part of the only one who said can you send us please send us now
Steve:there are times when the missions group would say if you can send it? If yes, in some
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. Not the individual, or the individual person literally click God is telling me you need to. What else do they ask for? Please send us her Bible. We want to buy Bibles and prayer Bible and prayer that is just beyond human world. And if you look
Steve:at where they are, yeah, their spiritual warfare is against the arguments of Hinduism. Yep. Islam, Buddhism, yep. Shintoism. All that this is the warfare, that they are contending with these things which rise up against the knowledge of God, against the truth against the truth. And what we see here in all, this is a reflection that will come when the Antichrist stands in the temple, and declares himself God, above all that is claimed to be God, that He is the pinnacle of all of that of everything. Yeah, he's the pinnacle of all of that. And if these people think that binding and Lucien is going to do any good, they're quite liberally try it. When the Antichrist stays in the middle of the temple. Yeah, yeah. I read testimonials. We're still going to be here when he arrives.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. So when you talk about the name and climate, bind it and loose it, oh, my goodness, the amount of times I've been in prep meetings and conferences, and all this sort of stuff, where you get in a trolley you get in a rhythm of this satanic rhythm. Nothing to do with God. Yeah. And and alone, you kind of saw so
Steve:Satan becomes the central point. Yeah, worship of God, is pushed out the way. And it's it says, Yes, you have wisdom, truth and understanding in the study of the gospel. And the whole of the Word of God is pushed to one side. And the whole of this, in my estimation, has been brewed up by the devil, taking our eyes of Christ came right
Reverend Ben Cooper:from the truth.
Steve:And all of these, I mean, I do understand about deliverance. I do understand about the necessity of confronting evil powers in that direct sense. I'm not stupid. But when we come into this area of worshiping God, and studying the Word of God, yeah, it's the word of God, which will set our mind free
Reverend Ben Cooper:in the New Testament Whereabouts is that moment, you know, I'm thinking about all this stuff going on, you know, where they come down for the time of prayer, and that slave girl was behind them. And they just turn around and no,
Steve:Paul. She's got a spirit of divination as he but he deals with that very quickly as he's coming out of
Reverend Ben Cooper:come out of a dam. We've gone see your babae there's no hours, many
Steve:allows it to go on for a couple of days. If you get to throw the brew up of it. Yeah. I mean, she's following him around all over the place. These are men of gold, but he's on a man of God, but they're not posting sick and
Reverend Ben Cooper:tired. And it just goes, right. That's it. Yeah. But there's no, there's no ramping up and it just turns around the deal. with it and we
Steve:just carried on along when he when he was whenever he confronted someone who had an evil spirit around cleans it was dealt with quickly. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Calmly, wise, screaming and shouting and then spending 48 hours fasting about it, praying over it and almost whipping yourself. It's just it's not biblical isn't
Steve:it? Isn't I mean it's not if you look at hearing a weapon and yeah, and hitting debts in the kingdom of darkness isn't a kingdom. You've only got a look at Elijah and prophets and we're dancing around slashing ourselves. Yeah. And also the mountain the man who in gather get gatherer, Jen Sara, wherever you want him the main, out of whom Jesus cost 6000. Demons demons
Reverend Ben Cooper:is a deliverance service there Right.
Steve:But he'd been in the terms
Reverend Ben Cooper:cutting himself. Yeah, that's it cutting himself. And when you see these it whenever
Steve:you see people striking someone, yeah. And it's supposed to be some sort of deliverance. That is a lie. That's satanic. That is not now the Word of God. You will not find anywhere in the Word of God that someone is dealing with evil spirits, unclean spirits, they never strike the human being. When we go back to what Paul says in Corinthians, The weapons of our warfare are not carnal
Reverend Ben Cooper:and not carnal. Yeah, I'm not against brother or sister. They're
Steve:against us. They're not against humanity. You
Reverend Ben Cooper:know what? You don't whack anybody you don't? And how many times have we seen this still going on, we still sit in certain big ministers don't
Steve:turn on YouTube. Something knocked all over
Reverend Ben Cooper:the place. And I've say I've seen thank quiet herring the other week where this pastor was, literally be in this lady, come out of her site and come and you're thinking, What in the world are you doing? It's a nonsense. It's brutal. It's this satanic justice. It's not it has nothing to do with Jesus. There's a chant and there's this rhythm. There's this atmosphere. But when you study spiritual warfare through through scripture, you will not find Christ having to shout or to raise his voice. If
Steve:he's if he's if he's dealing with satanic oppression. In a face to face confrontation. It's simply get out of him or
Reverend Ben Cooper:her. It is written. It's just it's about the word is quiet. It's simple. It's simple.
Steve:Yes, dealt with. But the reason people like all the shouting into jumping on a leaping up and down, it pleases the flesh. It does a showmanship showmanship show why I'm doing something I'm doing. You see, the whole of the gospel is centered upon what Christ does and who he is, what men it comes with, oh, just I've got to add my four penalty. So I've got to get my butt in this. And so I've got to shout and scream and jump up and down. I've got to do this. And I've got to do
Reverend Ben Cooper:that command in and I didn't lose all the prayers, all the concoctions I've had, you know, in the prayer books, this book, that book called them when you come out of there, you're exhausted? Yes, of course. And you feel as bad as you could you get in a rhythm that's not healthy, that's
Steve:not healthy. My wife and I worshiped in a church that was you know, this idea of deliverance ministry was was prime
Reverend Ben Cooper:a number one thing all the time, all the time. And then you've got people,
Steve:but I think was being very young at the time, and really didn't understand what was going on. And it was only lighter once we left there. And God began to show me and deal with me in certain areas of my own life. That I began to see and understand that much of what they preached as well, was very much a man centered gospel, not a Christ centered. Yeah. And it was, you know, this is what you've got to do. And you've got to do this and you've got to do that. And if you don't do it, this is going to happen if you don't do this and you don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:put so much strain and stress on the on the believer on the person. When the Bible says in it, you'll know the truth and the truth will set you free will set you free freedom. I mean, I had
Steve:over the internet were chatting the other day about this that he got he really got empty that I believed in eternal salvation all and he said well, if it's really eternal, why do we have to fight for it? Why do we have to go through it and and the problem about dealing with any, anything doctrinally over the electronics is that you can never deal with it properly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, you can't No you can't you can't do that. It really is a real difficult
Steve:face to face. Because then you've got to go through the scriptures and say well, this is that and this is that and the reason this is here and this is that you see when when Paul says to Timothy to waste good warfare, he doesn't say alright, you you've been prophesied over. So you have and that, by the way is picked up in in fourth chapter of this letter to Timothy where it says that the elders laid on his hands prophesied over him. So prophecy in this sense is personal. And it is within a contained area. All right, it's not people standing on
Reverend Ben Cooper:now. is private. it personal? It's almost behind closed doors. a one to one base. Yes. Very quick, very easy. Almost you could miss it on the personal. Yeah. Timothy. Yeah, it's, it's quick, it's fast. It's not elongated. It's not spread out these hours
Steve:basically, do you? What I would have imagined would have happened that Timothy would have been presented to the elders, the elders would have prayed about Timothy, and come to an understanding of the Spirit of God, this man was called as an IT calls an evangelist. And that that, therefore they pride that over him, yeah, that it, it was something that God was calling him into. And it was a an affirmation of God's calling me, Paul himself. In this particular one, I know we're going we're sidetracking a little bit where he says, I received mercy for this reason, in May as the foremost Jesus might displace perfect patients, as an example. And that's not the one on one No, that's it's, I'm thinking of another text. Paul says about how it was that he was called beforehand that he was chosen beforehand. And he came through to an understanding and an ice goes down a price for him. Scale tool from his eyes. And he begins to understand and I think it might be the collection that we're covering. But anyway, I'm sidetracking interrupting myself. The point being is that when we come down to warfare, spiritual warfare, real spiritual warfare, it's contending against lies. The since they come in come in, since if we take an obvious one, we can say about Mary being the Carradine with Christ, I can't show me in Word. Where is it? Where,
Reverend Ben Cooper:where is that showing in
Steve:the world? We're supposed to pray to Mary, Shani, and whoever else posted project sites.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's about not you won't find it there. So,
Steve:this is a that is spiritual warfare. It is much you take the Bible and you bring it and then some almost argue but such and such said this will say such and such, I really couldn't care less. Because no, because I'm St. Stephen's striking down because I'm saying yeah, and he ain't no better than me. Yeah. All right. He was if he was saved, he was saved by the blood of Christ. So we're the same. We're the same. We're all sites if we saved so we the hunger site comes from sanctification. That's it. There we go. Yeah. But so you know, St. Ignatius of Loyola said this and St. Athanasius said that. Okay. Okay. They said it, but they were wrong, because they're not resting in a word of God. So whatever I say, I can dismiss. Yeah. Because what does the word because of what the Word says. And so they raise up an argument against God. Yeah. And the Word says, no, no, this is wrong. You're wrong. Yeah. I mean, we'll all have contentions or not contentious is the wrong word. We're all gonna have differences of opinion about certain doctrines within the Word of God. But the foundational fundamental doctrines? No,
Reverend Ben Cooper:no, it's there. That Yeah. So there might be a little sway or a little bit of a different understanding where you're finding places but
Steve:you'll find, for instance, that the majority of people that come out of the reformed tradition, do not believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit for today Yeah, as far as they're concerned, it's passed off. That's not all of them. There are some Sam storms. He's one is a Calvinist charismatic. And so you will find some people. Okay. And one lot will say, the gifts have passed away. And I'm obviously not I haven't. I personally don't believe they have. I was reading something about John Wesley the other night, and I didn't know this, but apparently wisely was in the middle of a prayer meeting and he was preaching the Word and suddenly interrupted himself. And he cried out something along the lines of this oh, Lord bless you and praise you. That you are calling on James Watson in James Watson, if you are here to die, then the Lord is speaking to you reveal yourself. Apparently there was a guy in in the crowd called James Watt. Yeah. And he came under the conviction spirit and he was saved and to say wisely interrupted himself. There was another one I've mentioned Spurgeon in the past, but I was reminded of another one the other day that you He was in a, it was on a Bible study or a prayer meeting, or his preaching, and suddenly stopped him said, There's a young man in here. And you have got a pair of gloves in your pocket and you stole them from your employer, and you have not paid for them. And the chap went see it saw him afterwards when he said, Mr. Spurgeon, you're quite right. I did steal those gloves. And I need God's forgiveness, the gift, as I think these things occur in instances where Jonathan would possibly was was moving in the sink, but Edwards was not dismissive of the guests. As far as I'm concerned. It proved nothing, unless a person was saved. Okay, salvation was prime and it all otherwise it just becomes a parlor trick.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's actually quite true. Yeah. Really? Seriously, that's what it's about salvation is number one.
Steve:That's the point of that. There's there because glorify God, but then to help the body
Reverend Ben Cooper:to be edify the body yeah. That's quite interesting to to edify the body not not to lift up the man, I am the evangelists. I am the preacher. I am but
Steve:that unfortunately, is that we've, you know, got, we can go back to the foundation of Elam itself, and we know go right, yeah. The trumpet heed the men of God, right men of God, when you start digging it arranged, you have to wonder,
Reverend Ben Cooper:hang on. So,
Steve:you know, we must keep in, in our mind. And we've been stressing this for several weeks. Now, this area of sound doctrine. It's yes, certainly unnecessary.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes. And it pulls yourself up sharp. When you start to say, Lord, open Your Word up so I can see clearer, I can think clearer. And it realizes that there's so much hope in God, and there is freedom. And what regarding spiritual warfare, and regarding fasting and prayer, oh, this stuff, this, this turkey, stuff that has been like a minefield, suddenly start to get washed away.
Steve:I mean, fasting, and prayer has its place in our relationship with God, providing it called the fasting and prayer isn't just going without food. Lots of people to do that you're wrong. I'm fasting today, and then carry on doing the job. The idea is that you fast is actually you're supposed to pry he's supposed to dedicate in that particular period of time.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's now got area that the church has taken and shape for a meeting.
Steve:And I mean, when Jesus came down, goodness, and the chap said, you know, your disciples can't cast out this demon. And he says, This isn't my site, when why can we do this type comes out with only comes out with prayer and fasting.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it has a place. Yeah, I mean, that in itself is, but it's not like every second of almost of every day going along with a deliverance ministry. And
Steve:I mean, it's Christ Himself. Christ. 40 days. Yeah, wilderness. Yeah, food. Yeah. Because he was dedicating himself in prayer to God in a wilderness where there were no distractions.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's the thing, no distractions not coming into a building and we're going to go from six o'clock to nine o'clock and then we're going to name it and climate we're going to cast out demons. It's, that's just all showmanship. Everything you find in the Word of God is done quietly. Personally, don't let you ever hand know what your brand is doing. Keep it to yourself. Now.
Steve:Another quote from David Jones, he said, if you if you ever noticed the disciples, they never announced beforehand that they were going to have a healing meeting. Because they didn't know I didn't know how he coming up against
Reverend Ben Cooper:here, but I prophesied I was gonna have a healing. It's always a wave is always a way to go. Well, the devil stole that one. It's It's laughable isn't it really is laughable, unfortunately. But how many people hold on to the coattails of the false prophets, the false teachers, and the deliverance ministry and I never forget the lady that came in or before a lockdown. She said to me, our pastor bench he said, I want your blessing. I'm going over to over to it I can't help but love. I'm gonna have to Essex because I've found a pastor online. That's only going to charge me 50 pound for deliverance ministry. Okay, all right. So you want my blessing. You want me to pray for you? That you're going to go over there okay. And you're going to part with 50 pounds to be delivered? Yeah, hang on a minute. What what what planet are you on? Paying for prayer for one thing that you you do you scratch your head some things and you think it's Am I really hearing this? You want me to pray for you? So you'll have traveling mercies to go over there and then part with 50 pound and be delivered by a man that's charging you what he's eating. He won't pray for you until you have paid the money.
Steve:The man is a safe and villain. Clever villain yes for your failures might have shipped records faith.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. That's exactly what we're saying. How many people actually do this? This is very, this is the big thing that happens. We'll pray for you. But can you can you please it's going to cost there was one price. One price, there's no transaction of money. But this is,
Steve:you know, it the mind boggles when you ask, you know, could you pray for me? Yeah, but it's gonna take up my time. So you gotta give me money? Well, that's what, what, what are you talking about? You're a lawyer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So I'm hold, I have the power. And I'll only release the power when I'll get 50 quid, okay, I'll
Steve:tell you what, pal. What I want you to pray from what you might end up pro selling one.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But how many people buy into this, this, this deliverance ministry and all they keep going on about is I've been delivered now. But then I've got to be delivered again. And then it's, it's this might this
Steve:it's eat well, in some respects is easier to go to someone and get prayer, rather than kneel down before God and wrestle with God over months and years and years.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And say, God, please help me it cause we all want
Steve:let's face it. We all want instantaneous relief. Every single
Reverend Ben Cooper:one of us, every one of us go to the hole in the wall. Jesus give me one of us wants
Steve:instantaneous relief. That is not a word of God, endurance, endurance, you have to endure free times
Reverend Ben Cooper:I played with the Lord. And it stayed with me in July that
Steve:was on site and it was being buffeted by messenger from site.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's very important. That scripted a message coming back. A messenger what why that was
Steve:what he said he was a messenger from Satan. Satan whispering in Paul's ear. Yeah, condemnation. Whatever they were, it was
Reverend Ben Cooper:three times I pleaded with the Lord, will you take this? No, My grace is sufficient.
Steve:And the thing is that seriously, all of us have, as I say, areas that we need. And we've spoken about this over the years, about how it is that we pray, Oh, Lord, you know, you've dealt with so many things in my life. But why isn't this being done? While we've got this? Why have I got to carry this? Why can't I get over there? And there is no answer comes. So you keep pressing in, in prayer and you keep Don't stop, keep going. And you realize that that's been allowed to stay there to make sure that you do perceive
Reverend Ben Cooper:Excuse me, sir, God is allowing this to stay. Yes. My grace? Well, so there's another interest in
Steve:God is a co sin. It's not that. But as we grow, God deals with these things. On a day by day, we are not the people we once were when we were first saved, there is going through a pro Yeah. And it's processing in a progressive,
Reverend Ben Cooper:progressive. Yeah, we know God can do that now done. And sometimes that does happen. But the majority of a journey of a believer is from year after year, yes, of pleading, of asking, of praying of searching the Scripture, guide me and strength for me. My grace is sufficient for
Steve:you. I think the difficulty is for some Christians is that they will look at some of the historically great men of God who have been taken on by the Lord and seemingly so much has been dealt with in one go. Yeah, yeah. It is then difficult for us to think, Well, why? Why is that not happening to me? Why can't I find the freedom they found? You can come under condemnation and my Savior, you can start wrestling. Again, all of these things are there because God fashions our cross for us? Yeah. We are to persevere.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And we're on an individual journey. We're on an individual. What God does for me is different to what God does to you what he does to you different. We're all different. We're all different in the way God dealt with us. But it's through one word, one Christ. But we're all in different time levels and all different areas have different walks and different backgrounds and different thinking and different layers. As of life and different understandings,
Steve:you take a person, for instance, that will not come under authority, or, and I don't mean that the pastor is sort of, you've got to do this, you've got to do some stuff. But the authority of the Word is preached. Yeah. And if they won't come under the authority of the Word is preached. Again, we come back to home at home and is and I'm sorry, you must go. Yeah, you cannot stay here. Because this is the sound Word of God. You must go. There's one thing that has to happen, we have to make sure that we are preaching the sound Word of God. Which is exactly what Paul is saying here to Timothy, you, why'd you to good warfare with a good conscience? And this is what he
Reverend Ben Cooper:cites. But but this is what it is. Yeah. So yeah, it's necessary. And
Steve:the thing is we, with our with, with the Lord, there are no easy answers.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, is to come back enduring again, going through the cross. There
Steve:are simple answers, but they're not necessarily easy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:At some times to get a simple answer takes a long time. And you think that is so simple. And everything else after that just gets washed and melts away?
Steve:I mean, you'll you'll find, for instance, every fellowship, as indeed every Christian will come under some demonic oppression. That is a
Reverend Ben Cooper:fact. That's a fact, you know, not going to get away with that. No, you're not. No.
Steve:It's how you deal with it. People will say, you know, when Satan, but when Satan came to Jesus and tempted him, we could say that this was a form of demonic oppression. And he quoted certain scriptures to him. And then people say, Well, you know, Jesus quoted the scriptures back as though it was a kind of Scripture quoting contest. But I was reading something by Paul Washer some time ago. And he said, it wasn't the quoting of the scriptures, that made the Scripture efficacious. It was the fact that Christ was living the scripture that he quoted that mighty efficacious as living, all right, so we can all pull scripture out and quantify it and honor it. But if if you're not living it, if it's not part of you, it's just an empty quotation. You're just proving that you know something about,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got a bit of education. I've got a bit of knowledge.
Steve:But this is the thing that Jesus was living the scriptures, thereby could quote, the Scriptures with authority, although he was the authority and himself in as much that he wrote the scriptures. Yes, as a man on this earth as he walked up in a beat. Yeah, under his father, yes, he walked in obedience under his father, by buying the Scriptures. And thereby, by buying scriptures, he was able to cite the site. And basically, in so many words, you haven't got anything in me. Now I'm living this, I'm living this, you come here with this temptation. But this is what it says. And I know that it says it because I'm living it. So your temptations are meaning. I mean, at the end, when he says, fall down and worship, you will always get the sense that Christ is absolutely sick and tired of this nonsense. I think I'm gonna
Reverend Ben Cooper:create I know you're gonna bring this line to me again.
Steve:So it's a so this idea of sound doctrine isn't just something that you compare it
Reverend Ben Cooper:now you can't.
Steve:It's not a it has to be within you. It has to be something that you know. And understanding, again is where Paul says, wage the good warfare holding face and a good conscience. Romans 12, do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, you might prove that good, perfect and acceptable of God. Basically, what he's saying here, we do with content earnestly for the face. It has to be within you. Yeah. You have to want it has to be grounded in grounded for you. I know gay hungry for it as well as individual time isn't there. There's a time in one's life when suddenly you go. I need to know this truth. Now. Yes, I need to know this. You can't you see that the end of the day a preacher can't preach and listener. He's already been preaching to himself
Reverend Ben Cooper:to himself that starts with self. It starts with yourself, I have to deal with me and I have to go through and tell you that when you go through, you will come through. Yes. So you have to experience certain areas of layers of life to know that God's word will deliver will set you free when you live according to the word,
Steve:but this is as we read the the epistles of Paul, we see this time and time again. I have learned what it is to be a bass To be a barrier, we were so in the second letter to the Corinthians where he says, we're so bad of life itself, that we might trust more in Him, who is the giver of life? That he, he experienced these things. He lived the things God took him through these things, to prove to him the validity of what God was teaching him.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's a long stretch of a word, isn't it? We despised of life, it we despair of life, it's despaired of life itself. That is like that is deep, dark. That is what was that? What was that life, just general life live in the monotony everything, we just sit back teeth of it.
Steve:I think it was water effect that Paul, Paul thought he was facing deaths that he was going to die. And there would be I would imagine, and this is only my personal take on it, that within him there was this desire still to go on and serve. It wasn't so much that he was afraid of losing his life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It was continuing to serve Jesus. Yeah.
Steve:I mean, in the in the letter where he says, you know, do I depart? Do I stay? Or yeah, it's better that you know that I stay. It would be better for me if I went because I'd be with the law of the law. But But for you, it's better that I stay cool. And so there's this deep commitment of this man, to glorify God with his life. Yeah. And to be of benefit to the son and bring the truth. Yes.
Reverend Ben Cooper:What a man and unknown lifting up the mat, you know what we're saying what Harry held on.
Steve:Jesus said from the beginning, I'm going to show this man what it means to suffer from my namesake. And if that's right, the thing is that so many people, these are little the size that people tend to God like to be like, poor like, Okay, if you really want it, but this is what's going to happen to you. And the nice just can't pray for people who think like prophesy have, like dropped out, you know, come on,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and a knife, just go. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Rewind
Steve:to Jeremiah gotta read. Isaiah, go rewatch Daniel, or Oh, damn, and he was very close it, he probably had it, quote, the easiest,
Reverend Ben Cooper:as the Prophet says,
Steve:the man who was thrown into the lions den in his life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Imagine that. I just load. Yeah, the lions. Really interesting. Steve, you know, spiritual warfare, has a very different look, doesn't it to what we have seen, and what is still going on out there, the noise, the rhetoric, the hustle,
Steve:all the districts that are there in the world, Satan is behind this in two ways about it, no doubt about that. And so in that indirect sense, we are confronting his wives. But in a direct sense, we're confronting those lies which either sit in our own mind, or peripheral, proliferate in the church, and need to be dealt with. And they need to be dealt with, by the preaching of the word by the understanding of the word. And by holding true to the true to the word. It's,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's quite interesting that when you get to that position, and you start seeking and looking for truth in the Scripture, suddenly you find that all this noise that was on the left and the right that you might have been engaging in and pressing and pushing is empty is finished. It's got no wind, it's got no air.
Steve:But you know, the idea that you're going to have to kneel down and pray. Day after day after day after day after day, after day after day. It's not a joke. He was staying out there and shouting and screaming and for hours,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and then going back and watching the telly
Steve:you come out for a great that was a great time it was I feel really good now was coming out of China. Pray you come out time a preset. Oh my Lord.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, Lord. I've just learned something about yourself. And I've just I've got to
Steve:get back in and I've got to get back. I've got to get back to a secret
Reverend Ben Cooper:place. Yes. The Secret Place,
Steve:you know, because you come out of that prayer. And you're still mourning. Yeah. You still have reading
Reverend Ben Cooper:continues. Yeah. wretched man, here we go. Steve, fantastic stuff. You know, we just keep going. We never give up. The Word of God is sound and true. Thank you so much for wherever you are across the earth today. We have been in for 50 minutes. You've been listening to Steve, as he's led us through the word of God. And today's title was spiritual warfare. We got the references at the beginning and we'll put them up at the very beginning of the podcast. But thank you so much, wherever you are across the world for the 1000s of downloads and everything that's coming from that. May God bless you and strengthen you in the mighty name of Jesus Christ, amen.