Good morning and welcome wherever you are across the earth today, may God bless you and strengthen you. Welcome to # Christian straight talk straight out of the barrel of truth. We've got our good brother Simon, on the other side of the podcasting table today, we are gathered around these mics and we are trusting in God. You know what? Oh, Lord help us, we got he's bringing a great subject. He's a great subject. And do you know what it is? It's pride. And we're not talking about gay pride. We are talking about the pride of life,
Simon Pinchbeck:Good morning, and it's great to be back and everyone who's listened to this. It's great to have you on board. And just before we get into this, because it's huge this subject and before we get into it, we want to thank everybody for we just hit 200 downloads spend. So we're very mazing encouraged by that. Yeah, I won't say we're prideful, because we're not. We're very encouraged by that. So we find everybody out there. And you know what, it just makes this worthwhile to be honest with you. So yeah, the subject this morning is, is pride and it comes number one, Ben is that in the seven deadly sins, it's the first one and I was listening to a little bit of a, a guy called Charles Stanley, many people would know him out there. He put some great stuff together. And he called it a spiritual landmine. Ben, because pride when you break it down, God hates pride because it's putting yourself before Him. That's what it is. The spotlight is on me. Yeah, the spotlight is on me and rightly so. The Bible's full of great stuff on you know, Proverbs tell us you know, pride comes before a fall. And the Godhead hates a haughty eyes and all the art and hates ego, which is stands for edging God out. And, and this, the Bible is just full of stuff to tell us our really dangerous pride is and how deceptive it can be gentle. In Daniel, Ben, Daniel 28, Daniel tells, told Nebuchadnezzar, he told him be very careful about taking glory in your own achievements. But we found we find out that in that particular chapter, Nebuchadnezzar just says, look, what I've built, look at this, what I've done. And then of course, we read a little bit later on is demise and aren't a good mate of mine got a good mate. And I was talking to him this morning, in actual fact, we came in, he built up a big business, huge business for himself and a step back one day and he looked at it and he thought to himself, look what I've done. And he's a Christian man, and got it in very quickly with scripture, John 15 Five, which says, I am divine, you're grafted into the vine, and do nothing apart from me. And that took him to a place and he suddenly realized, hold on. God's given me this life God has given me this opportunity. And I can do nothing apart from Jesus and what right place to reach it. Yeah. And I find this bed now as I go around the country and speak to a lot of men who have built businesses. They find it very odd to bend the knee to Jesus because a fair Christian men and they love in men, but they firmly believe that they've built all this themselves, dangerous place to very dangerous.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Pride is a very dangerous place. Because it's like, the iron mentality, isn't it? I got this, I built this church. I've built this business. I, the ministry is about me. It's all about everything. I've built my profile. I've got 1000 followers, I've got this I've got that I you know, it's just like,
Simon Pinchbeck:I think I think if you're listening to this this morning, look, if you're on social media, just have a little look around and see because wherever someone bends Zelly right, wherever someone uses AI, more than we, then Jesus, that Jesus, then you're in trouble and yeah, because the signpost is pointing to you is to
Reverend Ben Cooper:me, I've built this I've I'm going to build my profile. I'm going to I can build a church look what I've done. You know, God, please break this in me Lord, if I'm prideful, Lord, if I'm arrogant, whatever it is, just bro cuz I cannot cannot be in that position. It's frightening, isn't it? To think, to think that the number one thing? And isn't it interesting the word itself pride that is coming at the church as well from another flag angle. Yeah. And it's been used and it's been driven, so strong and so powerful. So the word pride has two different meanings at the moment, doesn't it? But it's, it's number is number one sin. And it's number one coming at the Bible believing church.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, you know, it's an interesting bend to the devil's was pride because he wanted to be above God, Danny, and that's what made him fall.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, pride is pride. And then you look at, look at the label that's on this, this at the moment, pride, you know, look, the driver, the driver, and that's all about, you can be anybody you want. You can be you, you could just be whoever it's all about. You, you are in charge of your agenda, you are in charge of your bits and pieces. It's all about you.
Simon Pinchbeck:But you've opened up a huge thing. So that's just the gender thing. That's just a gender thing. Now we are preaching in some of our churches, this Word of Faith stuff, which is you can be a little god. Yeah. Which is the law of attraction, which which
Reverend Ben Cooper:I can do all things through Christ. Cafe, you take that text, and I can, how many
Simon Pinchbeck:times have we said you can do you can do all things with a verse out of context, you certainly can with with with this. And this law of attraction, Ben is God, you know, it's a saying you can speak into existence, stuff this is, and a lot of churches have jumped on board with that. And because it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:a spiritual law, it's a spiritual law. And Lucifer said that to Christ, so it works. But Christ did not bow the knee to it, I will give you so there is territory that he owns. And you can guide that territory. But is it the territory of Christ? Or is it the territory of Lucifer is in His kingdom, then it's his kingdom, I can give you the keys to the kingdom is here. So there's a difference isn't there between his and the, his kingdom, which is very small, but he will make you tell you it's enormous.
Simon Pinchbeck:And, Ben, really the most, I think probably the most foolish man in the Bible was the man in the parable that Jesus spoke about he, he looked and he said, I've got so much gray and I'm going to build new barns. And the Lord said to him, You foolish man, various very night your life will be taken. And it was taken. And and what did he say when he was in in Hell, he said, Is he looked up to Jesus and he said, tell my brothers, it never asked for forgiveness is pride was so strong, strong. And you know, and they talked about, like, a beggar outside of his place called Lazarus, didn't they? No. But he never asked for forgiveness. He said, Go back and tell my Yeah, so his pride in himself was Thrive strong. Yeah. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:when when the scripture says it's number one, pride over rises and overrules repentance. Because repentance breaks pride. Because when you say, Lord, I am a sinner. You're realizing that, that I am a rich, Lord, I have just failed. I have sinned. Someone that's very prideful. I bet I be someone that is very arrogant in ministry, very prideful, and it's all about their ministry. Don't enter into the arena of repentance. So very nervous, anything wrong, because you're great. You're great.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's a really good point. And the Lord's given that have been right now because listen to that, because if if you're prideful, you won't repent because you think you've got nothing to repent, also I tell you something, Ben. You wont prey either.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Cause i am making it work I can do all things. It's all about me.
Simon Pinchbeck:So all about me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's all about me.
Simon Pinchbeck:unless its a prayer remember? Sad you see your Pharisee wherever he was, who came up and said Lord, thank you thank you. I'm not like them pray you might save your rifle. Oh, fine. You're not like them. Thank You that You've made me this Lord. Thank You that I've got this. Thank you. I've got this great ministry. Lord, thank you so much.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yes, a pride stops repentance, repentance, repentance. Since pride stops the will of the Father, and pride increases the will of yourself. Repentance stops your pride and your own will and your own agenda and accelerates the will of the Father. Yes,
Simon Pinchbeck:great stuff. That sounds nice stuff. Yeah. Because you're saying, Lord, I can't. I'm sorry.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm sorry. I've made a mistake. I I've done this I've done that. sin is sin, whatever way we look at it. Repentance is about repenting of something I've said or I've done or ive built
Simon Pinchbeck:listen,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've, Lord, help me. So when surprised will stop you from repenting because pride is clearly is that I can be any gender. I can be whoever I want to be. I'm in charge of my life. I'm in charge of my biological life. I'm in charge of my spiritual life. I'm a church builder. I'm an evangelist. I'm a healer. I'm a fire star. I am the I Am. You are the center. So I've got nothing to repent about. Because I am a happy I'm like a dog with two. Sorry, Jesus towels.
Simon Pinchbeck:If you it so you're sitting. Listen, if you listen to this today, and we thank you for tuning in, but if you're listening to this day and go and thinking to yourself, Well, I'm not a prideful person, I can handle it. I'm sorry, but you know, you you're in a, you're in the wrong place.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's number one, isn't it? It's number one, it's number one on the hit list of everything.
Simon Pinchbeck:Because you have no accountability. And you are a God, you are a God you are Nebuchadnezzar. Does that make you an unteachable spirit about
Reverend Ben Cooper:100%? Because I've done every tour and thinks I know everything.
Simon Pinchbeck:So you, you've elevated yourself and yeah, yeah, the Lord.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And there's a dangerous word and church out there using the word elevation isn't there? Because elevation is lifted up. But, but but but I want to be in the Garden of Gethsemane. Because in the Garden of Gethsemane, you won't find what will you find? You'll find repentance. And you'll find find pride on the outside of the garden.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, you know, Charles Stanley finished his talk on this button. And he said this, he said, This is a prayer. If you really want to get rid of pride out, you're like, This is a prayer, to pray. And he said, Father, bring adversity into my life. For you to bring me to that place where I can get rid of this pride that I mentioned, we mentioned it early on in
Reverend Ben Cooper:this podcast because it's still putting shivers down my back
Simon Pinchbeck:in my mind, you know, just safe to say I got
Reverend Ben Cooper:the spiritual David Beckham's to actually say that yeah, yeah, have I really got a not sign it because a lip service but actually sign it because I mean it. God, I want you to break the back of pride in my life. Lord, I want you to send a stone that will put me on the floor. That will break arrogance, pride. Do you know what are don't? Cannot cannot pray? Can I seriously pray?
Simon Pinchbeck:I've got nothing to rely on. Apart from you for
Reverend Ben Cooper:have nothing to rely on of this world.
Simon Pinchbeck:I can do nothing apart from You. If you don't breathe.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I won't live if you don't put a pound in the gas machine. I'm getting no gas. If you don't show up, I am going to die. silence Yeah. So this is a prayer. That is a prayer that is making me shake. And if I don't pray it, I'm a prideful man. Because what my Battlin is that if I pray it, I'm coming into repentance and asking for forgiveness because I'm in control. I buy my house, I get a mortgage. I got a job. I've got a car. I've got this I've got that. I'm building the church. I'm a leader. I'm a vicar I'm a reverend. I'm an I'm in Men's Ministry. I can anyone Pray take all of this from me today. Put me in a field and I will still praise you. Job said
Simon Pinchbeck:Croc if you've gotten them in the most frightening book in the Bible on
Reverend Ben Cooper:it. I've cut mine out. I've kind of changed it to wrapping up the happy crappy book in it. I haven't I've put the Book of Enoch glow that in the center of it. I've taken that one out because it's a Job said destiny. Oh that he slay me. I will still praise him. Oh come on Jesus, please though.
Simon Pinchbeck:But isn't it interesting pain that he slave isn't interested in you? Before we got into this podcast? You've done another one on the on the persecuted church. Yeah. Isn't it interesting now that people in the world who have nothing, I've everything in the Father in Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now, as I said, smiling faces, yeah. Smiling Faces, they got hope. They are happy in persecution. And that story today is on open doors. And anyone can find this story that I'm going to say. There is a lady that has been praying in a certain nation in the world where they don't allow Bibles in she has been praying for 20 years plus, and she's just got her first Bible.
Simon Pinchbeck:Worship in China,
Reverend Ben Cooper:China, China, think about that. She hasn't been able to get a Bible 20 years waiting to get the word of God. You can't you can't that it's you can almost say that's too far fetched. Can't Yeah, you can almost go to the point of going no chance. Whether it's fact. It's there. And it's clear, she has been praying for the word. She has had no word she has a no paperback version. She needs the Word of God for 20 years plus she has been praying and what have we got missing in the church in the UK? Bibles we've got every ever literature up a Bible. And I'll say but but I know you know, I have to say the church because if we call ourselves the church we have how many crosses do we have in the churches?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, it's interesting yeah, whatever church you're in if you're in a church have a look see see this across? The crosses have been taken out of the church you know, rapidly and night.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, change for big plasma screens, you know, big screens big, big. The cross is just
Simon Pinchbeck:so right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So why why would I strip across out? Pride? My church because it may it may offend someone. God absolutely makes me smile. In unbelievable joy in pain.
Simon Pinchbeck:It is we've gone through we've done a session on the cross if you if you're new to the podcast, we've just come out of a seven series session on the cross. The joy that across brings, why would you
Reverend Ben Cooper:why would you want to strip it back. So you strip the cross out your pride for ministry? Because it's all about the church.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, then it becomes all about you and your preaching.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, and your followers. So pride is the number one issue in the world, in the church.
Simon Pinchbeck:So Ben pride is a desire to be number one. So I got this assignment.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That is what it is.
Simon Pinchbeck:I can handle it. I can't do it. It's continually as we've said before referring to yourself using it or my Yeah. Have a look on social media see what people are posting if it's continually i i used to be most to run a little small group of men and and whenever I used to see that I, you know, oh, don't want to use you mate, to be honest with you, because you're all about yourself. I'd rather use me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll bet you and I'll lift you up.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's continually wanting to be the center of attention.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because what what now what is that in a human being? What what is that? What is that? Why is it the flesh likes to be scratched? What is it about the back scratch? Er, you're wonderful. You are you're great, marvelous
Simon Pinchbeck:validation. So when you walk into a room you want stuff and yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Can you sign this book? I will in a moment.
Simon Pinchbeck:I remember when a garden party at returning the Brompton,
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh my gosh, they wouldn't let me in there.
Simon Pinchbeck:And we were in a chat and it was it was lovely Nicky Gumbel their blessing me. You know, he's amazing Malakal in this one. And I remember a guy and his wife and a guy grabbed me. He said, Tell me about your story. I said, Okay, so I started telling him a little bit about as I'm looking at him, he's looking over my shoulder all the time. I'm just going on it. And then all of a sudden, Nicky Gumbel appeared behind me. And this fellow went, Oh, yeah. Then you were saved. Yeah, thanks. He was either on Nikki. They want to be it. And that's another thing. singing, singing praise and compliments. Yes. From an encouragement from prominent people. Yeah, that's another form of pride. I remember the story of Charles Spurgeon when he stepped off the stage and someone went up to him and said, Mr. Spurgeon, you were absolutely marvelous today. And he said, Yeah, I know, because the devil is just so. So here. But we can take the encouragement, Ben can always give God the glory, we
Reverend Ben Cooper:must be sons of encouragement, because encouragement is needed. But when the encouragement lands, it points to Jesus working in me, rather than the devil stroking my shoulder and going, Well done, Ben, you've done a great job this and so when you got a price, prideful, late pride for leader, you will find that they start a lot of fires. But they don't have the endurance to keep going. Even when the fire suddenly the petrol starts to decrease, and the flames become small. They want a big bonfire to say, look what I've started, and then they'll go on to another bonfire, another fire, they keep starting fires, but they don't have the endurance to bring that to ashes.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's an interesting point. Yeah, they don't have the because
Reverend Ben Cooper:to bring it to completion, they'll watch it burn, they'll get it started, they'll get their fire out there, feel it, they feel it, they feel it, but every fire has to be put out. And when the fire is put out, sometimes you have to stay with a something that you've started. And it's on fire for it has a season, but many people want to say you are I started that. And that's still burning when actually it's not dead. So fire starters always want to be known as look what I've started. They've got no self. They've got no countability to no one.
Simon Pinchbeck:And there's another I think, as you brought an interesting point, I've also I think that if they're in something that as as reckon is recognized as a powerful ministry, then they don't want to let it go delay.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's what I feel it with self. Yeah.
Simon Pinchbeck:Even if, even if they've heard from the Lord, step away,
Reverend Ben Cooper:step away. I can't, I can't, I can't release I built this I self sustaining an any ministry can grow. When you got a man or a woman got an open checkbook standing behind you. Yeah, I was with, it's just business.
Simon Pinchbeck:I'm not gonna mention any names because it was nice names and names only. But I was with someone once. And he said, I'm going to always kind of hang on to this because this is my baby.
Reverend Ben Cooper:There you go, can't cut the umbilical cord, no, can't let it go, can't let it go, got to be connected, gotta be connected. There comes a point when the mother has carried and as nurtured and it's been developed inside. And there comes a point when the umbilical cord has to be cut for that other person to grow, and to stand alone or for the ministry that grow. And that's what we're saying for the ministry to grow. But so many people are fire starters. And they and they're feeding it with their own energy. They're feeding it with their own pride they're feeding it with someone else's checkbook so and then they're asking for money behind quiet doors. But then the finger and the point it all points to the top of the Christmas tree Ah look at they built it when actually no there was a man or a woman that was had their arm up their back almost to a degree right in a checkbook to sustain a festival or gig or a ministry or something. When really it's empty. That's interesting. Just keep just keep the power now on the fire to keep it burning.
Simon Pinchbeck:So then what you've got then if you've got someone like that you've you've arrogance, you've got arrogance, but it's a rebellious spirit against the LORD than it but
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't be teachable. I think there's lots of ministers out there that still going that should have ran for a season. And then a true leader knows when that season is finished. And there's nothing wrong with a ministry finishing because God has got something else for you.
Simon Pinchbeck:Or if the minute all someone else pick up that mantle you do
Reverend Ben Cooper:what Moses should have done delegation plays hand in over a complete so there's a difference between handing over and and being involved in a ministry that has been accelerated quickly but you know, okay that so this is going to finish this has a four, a four year life expectancy, and then we will gently pull out of it and if it's the Lord we'll we'll we'll continue if not, we'll close that door close. And we say Lord, what's next? What's next year what next?
Simon Pinchbeck:But a rebellious spirit and won't start is day With his face on the floor Willie
Reverend Ben Cooper:now is that is really spacing on his on his Instagram
Simon Pinchbeck:on his Facebook or whatever he's doing taking snaps. It won't start his day with you know, going farther, not my will but your will be done.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's interesting if you look at people's profiles, if there's scriptures going up left, right and center, it's about Jesus. If there's profile pictures being changed, left, right and center, it's all about the person because they're looking for another few 100 likes and a few quick
Simon Pinchbeck:knees a subtler validation. It's a prideful thing that very much so. Yeah, another sign. i That. That may be the you're a bit prideful is that if you if you're ignoring people less fortunate than you been,
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh, Tonka down that road, if that is like, because what is Jesus? I can't think of that scripture this moment. Where it says you didn't feed me. You didn't walk on me. You pass me by. I was hungry. You know, it's
Simon Pinchbeck:all right. Matthew 720. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can. You can, you can shout about it through your ministry. We are I am doing this. But are you really doing this? Are you feeding behind quiet doors? Or have you got it all in the spotlight or social media?
Simon Pinchbeck:So here's the deal, are you do you treat the guy who's organizing the carpark the same as, as the top worship leader? And yeah, do you know that? Or these people who are giving and giving and giving? Do you recognize them?
Reverend Ben Cooper:How many warriors are there working behind the scenes that are put put so much together and the leader takes all the glory for everything that's going on?
Simon Pinchbeck:Or another that is another sign of pride when the leader takes glory from other people are doing
Reverend Ben Cooper:and the leader just shows up at the last minute they got the red carpet is rolled out the stain in the Premier Inn and anyone else who's sleeping in a tent, and they roll in lift and put them behind the pulpit? Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah. And then you got the dear workers that have grafted that have give up their time
Simon Pinchbeck:someone wants to come up and go, you know, shake your hand or whatever, or just a word or have you got a minute. See you later. See,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've got I've got I've got got the next one. Now remember, I'm getting the helicopter not
Simon Pinchbeck:so long ago. I was speaking in a in a school. It was with a church they died the school out for the hall and whatever. And there was a guy in a car park he was directing people and I got out a corner. And I just sell her money. Are you doing? I'm wishing if any and all of a sudden, he was telling me about his amazing life story.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. spoken to him. No one would give him any glimmer of a second but set walking in the church. They're lifting up whoever's behind the pulpit but it's never Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, that and, you know, always our speaker and you get that a lot when you when you go in. And what though I'm not in my I struggle with pride as much as the next man, to be honest, and I could tell you some stories, but I do. What I think I like to do is endeavor to get to a meet in first or early so that I can greet people as they come in. Okay, and then and then wait behind because that's when the business is done, you know, right behind because my mom Mrs. Linda, she she was saying to me when when you want for lunch? I mean sure when you're going to be back I said well, probably about say one o'clock she says well you probably back about freedom because you know so she's she got the idea to me and finishes it off. 12 But you know that go with the business end goes. You call give people time and you've been time. You've got people your time, and the Lord will speak through you into their life.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And What's all that about putting a putting a leader sitting on the platform? Where's all that come from? Why, why is the leaders got to sit on platforms at the front so everyone can look at them. What's What's that stroking.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's very interesting. You say that because you walk into a place and I look around and who wants to be at the front? Let's have a look who's at the front, at the front. Back Mike to be honest,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'd rather be cleaning the toilet. Do you know I mean sitting at the back looking, watching over Sit who? Who would ever want to go down and certain ministers and cultures, they even have thrones for their leaders to sit on? What is all that about? sit in on a king's throne, sitting on a chair that's laced with gold and silk. Sitting up there being elevated,
Simon Pinchbeck:sort of prideful person will, will forget the smaller guys when he been?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. 100% Because he that they are stepping stones. There's a very Darwinistic there are many I'm gonna say this, there are many Darwinistic leaders in the church, they will trample on anyone. So survival of the fittest
Simon Pinchbeck:would you say to a prideful person would surround himself with lesser lights?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yet, but really, they're not lesser lights? Because they're real servants,
Simon Pinchbeck:but less the lights in his eyes? Because boosting his ego.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. And then yeah, so what you find what you find is a lot of people shine brighter than that leader. But that leader tries to put a blanket over the congregation, because no one can shine brighter in the name. So he would dampen down, he will dampen down he, he starts fires for himself or themselves. But they dampen down someone else's, they're not encouraged us.
Simon Pinchbeck:And that, and that control and that pride will choke that
Reverend Ben Cooper:it will starve it will take the oxygen out of someone's lungs. So it's very interesting. When you look at leaders, they will leave out encourage, and a good Christian strong leader will encourage anyone in their gifting in their skill set in Christ and in their colon, even if it is a greater calling than themselves. But we find that we have a lot of churches and a lot of ministers, led by souls. What do you mean? So, so got very jealous. And he got very angry when young David started to kill Mormon when he come back from the battlefield, and the women were going, David, David, David, David, David, David, David. David. David, we just named David. David. So just David, all it Dave, I can't remember. You know, I mean, there was shouting out, look what he's done, look, but he was a younger shepherd boy, ish, coming up in anointing, a leader, a prideful leader cannot be around anointed men.
Simon Pinchbeck:That is, that's an interesting comment in it. And I think a few of us out there many of us out there have, you may have experienced that were around you now, where you've got someone in your life, that's maybe trying to take the, you know, that the shine off of you may be trying to take, but they can't pull you down? And how do we treat them
Reverend Ben Cooper:that let's bring it to this bring it to this story, a biblical story.
Simon Pinchbeck:But we treat them like David trades, so 100%, because the way he treated them, you know, he cut off a bit of his cloak Denny when he was, you know, and all that sort of stuff. So we have to, we have to treat them like that. And the Lord will take care of them when the Lord
Reverend Ben Cooper:will take care of him. So when you look at David, when you look at David, and then you look at Joseph, look at Joseph's coat, there are many people in church that have had a blessing from the Father, that have taken it to their, their church family and their leaders and the elders and gone Look, look, look, look, look. And they've gone. So you're telling me, I'm older than you. I've been in this family longer than you. I am the daddy of all this. And you're telling me that we're going to bow down to you.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's a real interesting point. So to put it in plain English, you we have people that are not pleased about a success of ours and that's a prideful person is
Reverend Ben Cooper:and when we say the success what we what we are saying we are saying there are many people in leadership that when they see God blessing someone else, they become jealous. They try to get their tunic or their coat or their like Soul and they try and stab him in the back. So that terminology, watch out. They're going to stab you in the back comes from that biblical reference. Watch out for the backstabbers. You can be in ministry as Saul was in ministry. And you can still be a backstabber.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, yeah. I've seen that many times where, where there's just
Reverend Ben Cooper:But light is coming off for you. So I will get rid of him. I'll get rid of him. Because he he, he shined in a little bit brighter in a minute. And I'll tell you what, I'm gonna I'm gonna deal with him because at the moment, I'm at the top of the tree, and I can still deal with this. So it's interesting that many leaders want to stay at the top of the Christmas tree, even when the lights are going off.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, I'd say don't recognize that. Recognize that. So profit went up, because they won't look down. I've seen many times where, you know, there's been an event. Yeah. And there's been a couple of people speaking or whatever. And when one person speak, and you know that the power of the Spirit of the Lord has come through. And really, no one else needs to sign it or never word because the Lord's delivered it. I've seen many people try and get up and and I thought, stifle that ally for the whole time and beat it within our experience or whatever. Yeah, and it falls flat. And it just falls out this, the Spirit of the Lord is delivered this message yet, and he don't want you didn't. So anything you bring is in your own violation. It ain't working. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So we are, again, church life, because that's what we're about. We have lots of leaders, like Saul, we have lots of leaders like the brothers of Joseph, that when God starts, the father starts to bless and starts to raise up. That leader tries to squash the gifting. That's why we have so many people in congregation so down and downtrodden, so, so almost broken, because because that their coach that their blessing is trying to be robbed. They're being kept. Man is trying to cap man, but in the kingdom of God, it can't be kept. There are many people in congregations that are like David, you are anointed. And your time is coming. Your time is coming. How tight. Never give up the faith. Keep in the Word of God, keep focused on the king because that prideful leader, or that even in relationships, even in your relationship, you can have someone in the household that is very prideful, very arrogant. And if it isn't always pokin and pointing towards them. You've got trouble in the workplace. All over the place. Why is
Simon Pinchbeck:Emily parents just cannot be wrong. Yeah, that's that is the truth. Ben what is Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:humanity wants to be lifted up. But what was that prayer he said?
Simon Pinchbeck:And but remember this if if you are feeling that you're gifting the spin, squat squashed? What was it is it I think this Romans 11 Ben, somebody can run Muslim and where he says your gifting is irrevocable. Okay. Yeah. So that can never be taken away can never
Reverend Ben Cooper:be can taken in ever into the gift. The gift is given without repentance, without repentance. So when God gives you a gift, when God gives you a gift, it can never be taken the gifts when God gives you it, you can't buy an evangelist course you can't buy a preaching course, you have to be and wait. And again, I'll say this again, very quickly. We
Simon Pinchbeck:can't buy you can't buy it. But it's people selling it
Reverend Ben Cooper:as people selling it. Pyramid selling money, big, big money. We have a lot of leaders, we have a lot of leaders that can speak. But they're not anointed solo performers, they're performers. And what they don't like, is someone that is anointed. And when they spot someone that is anointed, they will push them out of the ministry or the ivory tower. Because the same thing is self focus the self, it's all about self. So if you are someone that is has been given a gift and you know that God has gifted you and you've taken it to your leadership team, and they are are saying make an appointment with us in four weeks time, get yourself out of church. Yeah, as you said, Just get yourself out of church. Churches done churches like Lazarus at the moment is dead is literally dead religion and church don't let down that these people were at a point now man, don't let there's too many were squashed in the world is
Simon Pinchbeck:different if someone wants to guide you and encourage you and move you forward and saying, you know, we'll build up to that but but someone just putting a block on your you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:a prideful leader will not will not let anyone allow will apply for a prideful leader and a self focused leader will not allow anyone else to grow higher than them.
Simon Pinchbeck:Watch out for those people that go. I've done it. Yeah, that's good. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, that's good. Yeah, it's not bad but yeah, I think I'm gonna do it. The Frank Sinatra way, my way my my way. My way is my way is the wide abroad path
Simon Pinchbeck:you're doing this but one of the better if but but but I wouldn't
Reverend Ben Cooper:do that I would do this. I don't think God is
Simon Pinchbeck:so so a private person and he's not a humble person is
Reverend Ben Cooper:he a prideful person is very empty
Simon Pinchbeck:and you know a prideful person
Reverend Ben Cooper:is very lost Oh humble was Jesus ah Simon
Simon Pinchbeck:Benny he washed the feet of his of his disciples didn't even
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think the sight Yeah, the sign of
Simon Pinchbeck:Well ain't gonna be nice was it wasn't going to be pleasant. I
Reverend Ben Cooper:wasn't wearing Russell and Bromley shows they weren't wearing nice brand new trainers, their feet had been Oh, no doubt.
Simon Pinchbeck:were unbelievable was this one boy Jesus was you know, he talked a lot about judgment and EGT. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:what did he say? He said, I have come to serve. That's not to be served. So when the other leaders are the leaders in our churches, servants are they serving? Or are they looking to be served certain
Simon Pinchbeck:cultures very interesting, good point and
Reverend Ben Cooper:certain cultures. And actually, I'd go a bit further not actually even in the West. Jesus said, I've come to serve and not to be served. He has sought some and brought me to this because he's talking about washing of the feet. A true leader serves and he serves in quietness. And he deals with things in quietness. And he does things and he works in the church and in the ministry doing things that that people don't even know that that they do, quietly running the Hoover around, you know, picking the fact butts up outside cleaning the loo doing stuff that no one really knows. And then they get in the pulpit and they never talk about it. They just deliver the message. A leader is a
Simon Pinchbeck:servant, and he delivered a message about Jesus and not about me. I and a true leader will apologize. But a prayerful person won't apologize. Oh, no, no,
Reverend Ben Cooper:no, no. I'll tell you what, I'm starting to realize how wrong how wrong army mistakes and how prideful and arrogant and we
Simon Pinchbeck:are Yeah, we are. We use the truth. You know, a prideful person doesn't stand criticism don't even I don't like it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So pride brings watch shoot and it brings an unteachable spirit. Now that is a dangerous one as well on teachable
Simon Pinchbeck:and teachable spirit
Reverend Ben Cooper:that that is less frightening, at frightening because we've always got the saying, Lord, help me. Please show me. Well show me Lord, I can't I can't find the way forward. Help me please, Lord, teach me Your ways.
Simon Pinchbeck:So they won't even see there's a different set of the Bible a lot of times because it's information. It's simple. Ah, you bring a good point as
Reverend Ben Cooper:information on knowledge nation, you're not revelation. You know, Simeon, Simeon in that New Testament in the book of Luke, Simeon spoke very clearly, when he held Christ. He said, give us the revelation that we need. Reveal. reveal yourself to us.
Simon Pinchbeck:So Ben, we I mean. Ben, so we've dealt a lot with what is pride? Very quickly, that was scoped for a few things to how do we deal with it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:How do we deal with it first I say so the power The word repentance should always be on a believers lips. Yeah, yeah. Because the word repentance is admitting that I have fallen short. And I have done I have done something wrong. Yeah. I have vowed
Simon Pinchbeck:we identify it. We can pass it and we repent it
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. On your face so still about i but it's the i i have fallen. I've been praying I've I need your help. That's interesting. I have seen other
Simon Pinchbeck:side of the eye of the eye the other side of the eye. Yeah. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:see, repentance is the one isn't the word just the word alignment.
Simon Pinchbeck:We've got to be in the Word of God don't we? Because that's that's the that's if we use in the Word of God in the right way that would that really keep you in the coffee was in keeps us in the garden. Another thing that been that will, you know, if we serve someone else without wanting nothing in return,
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh, goodness gracious me, given given of yourself. So that comes back to that same thing than it being a servant. I serve Your servant I serve. I'm a waiter to tables. And I know what people are pick that up because the Scripture says, you know, don't be a waiter. But but they've got that wrong. They've got that wrong. So a servant looks after people, takes the food delivers, this delivers that helps people quiet stuff, that and they're not looking for any pat on the back
Simon Pinchbeck:and do something without wanting anything in return. So do something, give someone maybe a couple of quid or maybe just encourage someone?
Reverend Ben Cooper:What about give someone a glass of water? Jeff, Scripture says, feed your enemy that will break your pride that will snap everything feed your enemy.
Simon Pinchbeck:And what about this spending Hebrews? I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble with that one. I can't even go there this morning, you know, we've already have offered a hand of friendship to one enemy. And there's another couple that I've got to sort out but
Reverend Ben Cooper:God is taking you through the valley of shaping but that's but the thing is, though, that you recognize it. Yeah. So you're, you're you're into enduring it. And you know that you can't run from it that you know, that you've we've all got when we all realize that we've got to go through something. And be when we say broken, as soon as you start talking about broken people start going on the mental health, drama and all that being broken of self of me. Because I become more spiritually alert when I'm not on me. And are my life is more peaceful when it's not about me when it's about Jesus. So there's a fine line again, isn't there of that word of God? Will you break me, I know counselors and people in my world of work that will go, you're absolutely off your rocker sign that you want to be broken, not broken, as you think of the word is is broken of self. So I can grow in Christ and be a better servant, because I am only a servant. I'm a servant. That's all I am. That's
Simon Pinchbeck:all well, it's all any of us is I'd rather be a servant for the Kingdom. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'd rather be a servant for the kingdom, because that you are the richest person
Simon Pinchbeck:on the earth. Because if you get to that stage, then then self is broken. Self was broken and fall because now we can use you. You think you think you've been used now we can really use you? Isn't it interesting, but we're not probably going to use you in a way you think, oh, to be used?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'll use it like this. How many people want to be an evangelist, a preacher, a teacher, a world wide, vocal advocate for the gospel, but no one will put up a call for come and give us 10 grand and where might your servant come to us ask goal of ministry and we'll make you a servant. Come to us and we'll make you an evangelist. We'll make you the preacher. You'll be a healer, you'll be a prophet come to us. Isn't it interesting. It's all about them. Ministers that promote that is all about I and you and you can be But Jesus doesn't go talk about building your app to be preachers and teachers. He says go into all the world. And he says preach and teach the gospel. But he says go into all the world not going to ministers, he says go into the world. But then also more than that, he makes a very clear statement is that I've come to serve.
Simon Pinchbeck:You make a massive, there's a massive point within what you just said there because, you know, Paul says in the I think it's two Corinthians he has 10,000 preachers and teachers and no fathers, fathers. So a father is a servant is a servant. And and we seem to think that we can only truly serve God if we if we have our own ministry or are working within a Christian ministry. But God says now I've got a letter after midnight of four officers Now, if you're a truck driver, my friend, that's where I want you. Yeah, if you're in the city of London, that's where I want you. If you're, if you're a Tesco delivery driver, that's where I want you, because your very life. He should be
Reverend Ben Cooper:a servant, a servant. So there's no schools of ministries actually saying, Come to us, and we will all make each other servants, but you can come to us and you'll be a prophet, but I'm gonna cost me 10 or 15 grand. It's cheap. But you're gonna have everything you're gonna have Have the kingdom you are going to be God when you leave this ministry Wow died my dangerous on I've just made another prideful evangelist
Simon Pinchbeck:have never let me forget from whence I came. never let me forget from where I came from that pit of destruction what you've lifted me out of that. You know that you've kept me safe you kept me never let me forget that on the ground keep
Reverend Ben Cooper:me keep me my feet upon the rock. Isn't it interesting now when you look at the schools of ministry, no one teaches you to be a servant. Every a worship leader, not really biblical evangelist, not really biblical in that sense of form, an apostle, a prophet, a prophet tests, we will teach you to be whatever you want to be, because your pride is telling you you're an evangelist. But your calling is to be a servant.
Simon Pinchbeck:And what's your motive our friend, for paying 10,000 pound to be an evangelist? What is
Reverend Ben Cooper:it that I manipulate others to give me the money?
Simon Pinchbeck:But What's your motive? Oh, so it becomes about me. John Doe ministries,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I have my own ministry, I have my own church, I have southern the church is exhausting pride is in more ways than one. The you think about your feeling about this. Religion is doing
Simon Pinchbeck:it in it. You know, that's yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I do use the word church a lot. And the reason I use that is because the brush that we're all pretty familiar with, because the church is telling you, you can be in the pride group. And the church is also telling us that come to this ministry, and we're teaching to be more even be more prideful, because I'm going to we are going to teach you to be
Simon Pinchbeck:I see that I see that a lot with with the Bethel stuff. I see that a lot with them their way that they get elevated, because they've been a bit full. Yeah. And I paid 15 grand to
Reverend Ben Cooper:school just for a few months. And then if you add it up through the years, you've got to go, you need a mortgage. Yeah. Isn't it interesting?
Simon Pinchbeck:And then people Jesus really given.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the gifts of the Spirit are given. But religion is charging. We've got more Simon the sorcerer in school and ministers than we've ever had across the world to sign on went, how much is it going to cost me? And what did they say? You can't by the Holy Spirit.
Simon Pinchbeck:Lot, we all need accountability in our life. That's the truth. We all need. You know, and sort of we bounce off each other Ben Yeah, we do. We speak to each other. And we're, we make ourselves accountable to each other. So we all need that. But you know, we are in a, a Christian system, which wants some sort of confirmation that you are a Christian from a church, you're in your ministry you're in or you can't just say, Lord, I'm a follower of Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm a servant. You will get no you're better than a servant.
Simon Pinchbeck:You'll get nowhere.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're better than a servant. system, you won't get nowhere. You aren't getting nowhere. Wouldn't be great if someone sends us an email go actually, guys, you've got this wrong. We are teaching people to be servants
Simon Pinchbeck:is very interesting. You know, I've had some communication with a lot of people out in Pakistan, India, at least Yeah, it's all of the jump on your on face chat. But yeah. But they all many of them go, we need you to come out. We want you to come and I just go What can I bring to you that you've gone already out that you really got? Yeah, besides a few quid? What can I worrying? Can I tell you? What, and really, you know, what is it a guy from the west? You know, bringing a bit of teaching you can do that yourselves? Yeah, you don't need me
Reverend Ben Cooper:and you can do better teaching because you know, the culture, you know, the culture, you know, but it's no good. Or you're gonna have then or anyone going over there to these far flung places and talking about your territory. You can have this you can have that you can get yourself an aircraft when I can't afford a grain of sand. It's just the prosperity gospel goes in all in places done it and tells millions that you're going to be a millionaire. When I can't even feed my family. And then suddenly that prophecy don't come true. I've my life and I've lost a child who gets the blame? Yeah. God didn't show up.
Simon Pinchbeck:See the reality of preaching Jesus. It's tough in it. And the reality of preaching Jesus is it is an upside down kingdom. Because we, it is an upside down kingdom we come. Jesus said, Come to serve not to be served.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's a really powerful text and I come to serve the creator of the world. The Living Word of God said, I have come to serve you that I have created
Simon Pinchbeck:just what I was on the earth and sit on a throne, did he not? He was he was born in a stable, and he was a builder.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, he probably had a Transit Custom.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's what he would have had. Yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You know, I mean, with what what he called himself he would have even had kingdom, kingdom, cobbling
Simon Pinchbeck:This is or something like that. But but it's a tribute show. But it's the
Reverend Ben Cooper:truth. It's the truth. He was a carpenter
Simon Pinchbeck:to be served, he didn't come on and take, no, we came for every single person on this earth. And that we can have you read about and we can all relate to him?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Isn't it interesting that we've gone 57 minutes, right? This is really interested in the scripture that Simon is just bringing again about being a servant, He has come to serve the ones that put Him to the cross the Calvary, he has come to serve, and to save humanity that he created that condemn him and spit in his face. Hang on a minute. This is so powerful. This is beyond human logic, that this man Jesus created the world. Because he was so without going into the theologic. So we know Christ at the very beginning of time. So he created with God, the world, He breathed life into humanity, he created life for his goodwill and his good pleasure. And the humanity that he created his spitting, spitting back in his face. But not only did he do create it, he also sent his Son into the world, to carry the sin of the world, and to serve the world. Our madness is too big to grasp. He come to serve to save to free.
Simon Pinchbeck:Jesus is the most humble person ever lived. You can't find only.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It, I think we've done it we because it's like it's coming to a full stop. Because when you when you think that I've come to serve, but you are a servant, and you are serving the ones that are condemning you. And you are loving the ones that are condemning you, and you are walking with the ones that condemned and you're saving the one I think I'm out of here. I've done I've done that finish this, well, you better wrap this one up.
Simon Pinchbeck:The only thing we can say is is that is if these words these on this this talk this morning on pride as as touched you are so in any sort of way, shape or form and as and you're looking at yourself and thinking Crikey. Like we are not a pair of so what's what pride for men we are, if you're looking at wherever you are and thinking I'm a prideful man, I'm a prideful woman, then that prayer we said a little bit earlier would leave on that, then I think you know, Father, bring some things into my life to break that pride, and put me back onto my knees. So I rely on you totally for everything. I'll give you everything I give you. Not my will, but Your will be done. Take the way the word I from that side of that side of the prayer and bring it into this side that says, I am nothing without you. I'm nothing without you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I am nothing
Simon Pinchbeck:without you. And then everything with Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Two eyes. And God bless you and strengthen you wherever you are across this beautiful earth that God has created. God is with you. And you can find us all over the place. #Christian, straight talk new books coming out soon. All been led by the power of God and through the voice of God and through our discussions because it's all about Jesus. And you will find it's not about us. It's about him. Because it is everything. And he is everything. Lord helped me to be a servant. Thank you for Simon. Thank you for everyone that's listening. You can find us on all and multiple platforms and thank you for the downloads across the earth. In the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.