Good afternoon and God bless. Thank you so much for joining us wherever you are sharing these podcasts out across the world. We have Steve with us on the other side of the mic, we got our coffee, we've got the Bible. And we're going to sit back and we're going to listen to a very interesting subject to the essentualities of love. Have i said that right? sorry, the sensuality of sensuality. I've got it wrong twice.
Steve:It's Love, Love from the senses rather than love from the spirits. Oh,
Reverend Ben Cooper:there we go. We're in. Steve, come on. Let's get straight in.
Steve:Well, good afternoon, everyone. I'm going to read from Ephesians 411 to 16, which will be our kind of base, when he himself goes some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists and some pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints, for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the Body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the face, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting. But speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into him who is the head Christ, from whom the whole body joined and knit together by what every joint supplies according to the effective working by which every part does its sheer, causes growth of the body, for the edifying of itself in love. Interesting, right. 1982 in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, or there abouts, there was a man called Ian McCormack. And he was deeply diving. And he was stung by jellyfish. And he died when he dragged his body out, and shipped him off to the near at one of the nearest islands, stuck him in a hospital. And to all intents and purposes, he was dead as a doornail. After being in there for a little while, suddenly his eye opens up, a tear rolls down his eye. And he comes awake, and he's brought back to life. Miraculously, all goodness, during that period of time, of that time of death. His testimony is that he met with Christ. And he said, It told various things, one of the things that stuck in my mind about his testimony, I saw him about 1984. And I was a very young, green Christian at the time. And he was telling everybody about how it was that as the Lord began to minister to him, he he threw these balls of light at him, which exploded upon him. And he felt himself surrounded by the love of God, whoa. And it went deep. And it went around and went through. And being, as I say, very green, Christian at the time, I'm sitting there thinking myself. This is beyond that, this blocks feeling the love of God off. I've never felt that I've never felt that. And knowing that in that auditorium, there were an awful lot of people feeling exactly the same as me that, you know, it was a great miracle that got to broke this man back to life. But this, this love which he was failing, which I doubt any of us in that place ever felt. And this love was then spoken of within various churches. It didn't start with the McCormack but for me, that was one of the seminal moments that I began looking at this area of love, the love of God. And I mean, I was struggling with my salvation at the time. And so this was all beyond me, this is I've never attained to this and so forth. And gradually over the years, I would sit in various congregations and I would hear a similar sort of thing about wanting to feel the love of God. And this desire that God would pour out his love upon us, and that we would have this this great sense of walking with God and I owe different testimonies about these things or people walking with these great feelings and gradually over the years, my I'm struggling with my salvation or various other things. I just had to put it out of my mind because I found that it was it was depressing me, aggravating, not aggravating, depressing, depressing, pushing me, pushing you down. Anyway, over the years, as I've walked with the Lord and gradually come to an understanding that I'm saved, I began to look at this whole area of feeling, the love of God. And how, Lord, how can I love you with all my heart with all my soul with all my mind with all my strength? And how can I love my neighbor as myself? And these are commands by the Lord Jesus Christ. And we, if we call him Lord, it says, What do you call Me, Lord, don't do what I say. And so you go through these times, and you think, well, how can I do this, Lord? How can I do it and gradually, very, very gradually, the penny drops. And I realize that I've been blown around by wind of doctrine. Yep. And this sensuality of love is so very powerful in the church that you've, you've got it still with. You've only got a look at the New Apostolic reformation. And the various churches that are aligned to that. You've only got a look at the best there was the the International House of Prayer with Mike Becker, you still got the overlap of the Toronto experience. I won't call it a blessing because I think it is the Toronto experience and all of it is essential. The whole thing is bent based on sensuality, feelings, feelings, yeah, the whole thing. And when we love the Lord, our God with all our heart, our soul, with all our mind, with all our strength. We do it in FEIS. Yes, we live by faith. And the way we move into that fully is we mature, we are crucified. And we are brought, as Paul says here to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,
Reverend Ben Cooper:to the measure of the fullness of this, and
Steve:that work of the Holy Spirit within us. Doesn't work through our senses. No, he, he bypasses the sense. It's got nothing to do with that. And it has everything to do with our walk of faith. We live by faith, we don't live by feelings. But there's this still this sense of inadequacy within many Christians, that they feel that they should feel the love of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, physically, externally, all round wrapped us. And we're so used to hearing the word God is love all the time. Yes. And so much. So lately, and as you said, so rightly so of music and other things that are out there. And you thinking, why can't I feel this? Where is it? What is it called? Am I missing a button here?
Steve:This is what I think many, many Christians are asking themselves. Now, emotion can come into play with our relationship with God. In many ways, we can feel tremendous sadness, we can feel a great crushing of ourselves when we are in a place of repentance. But also, the other day, three, four or five days ago, I'm in prayer. And as I'm praying, the Lord begins to speak to me and give me understandings about certain things and confirm certain things. And I'm just in tears. You know, it's an emotional response to what God is doing. But you can't walk around crying your eyes out. A plus effect. There are times where I'm in prayer, and I'm talking to the Lord. And, you know, a funny soul just strikes me and I laugh and
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, you know, So emotions are important motions are important. Yes, that but bigger and deeper and far beyond. How do we describe because, God, how do we say, Oh, God, right. God loves you. Yes. Well, how do I know?
Steve:Well, Jesus died for you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that's it. That's it. Yeah, I get that. But people go well, I know he died for me, but I want to feel that love.
Steve:Because people want to walk that's in sensuality, right? That's right. See, the thing is, if you want if you want love beyond the cross,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yes, you ain't gonna get it. No, you ain't getting this Now that
Steve:the fullness of God's love poured out as his wrath poured out and his son that he takes his son's righteousness and imputes it to us, you can't get greater love than that.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, you can't you can't. So the John 316 is is beyond human understanding and beyond what we can think or measure or ask that love is so powerful. But what about Agha pay love? That's it.
Steve:That's Agha pay love. So right so nothing to do with the set. It's got nothing to do with the saints. And so there's a separation of the physical Yes. When when we're when we're born again, we begin to live in a different realm if, okay, now, the outworking of the Agha pi love, okay, is that we love people that we would never have loved to before. We are compassionate to people upon whom we would never be given compassion. We find ourselves doing things that we would never have done and this is the outworking of the Agha pay love in our life. Also in Agra, pay love we learn to trust God, we lean on him. But it's got nothing to do with our walk, you know, our cuddly I feel if we look at Paul in Second Corinthians letter, when he talks about how it was he went through shipment, and beatings and so forth, and despaired of
Reverend Ben Cooper:life itself itself. Yeah.
Steve:There was no cuddly feeling near for Paul. But he was leaning on the love of God because he says we despise with the spirit of love ourselves. Like we might trust all the more in him who gives life
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, really interesting that this word love it. So what we have is we may have families that are very lovable, that show their this love for affection, you know, hugs Cuddles, you know, all that sort of stuff. And then suddenly we come into a church and then the church is going to chat and about God is love. God is love. And we're expecting this physical presence of being wrapped round when you can't get nothing greater than John 316. But we're looking for feelings, rather than a an awake and an opening in our hearts. Now, you know, God loves me. But the world uses and church uses the word love in a way that that is not biblical. And we need to be very careful, don't we? Because many places say can you feel the love of God in it?
Steve:Now because thinking about your love you come on everybody. Can't you feel the love of God? Can't you feel His presence? Now there's no one in that place is gonna say no, because they're going to feel left out. And they're not going to sit there and lie and say, Yeah, we're surely no, no, the Emperor really doesn't have any clothes. And I'm sorry, pal. What you're talking about his sensuality. Yeah, whatever you're feeling. It ain't God. So that's
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is really critical isn't music brings us to feel or music. Dangerous feelings can lead us into a dangerous area. Because so much is going on about love, love, love, love, love, and certain. And the pride aspect of all what's out there. And God is love. God loves everybody. And it's all this music law and everything that's out there at the moment. It's like we've got a feel. Can you feel the love? Actually, I feel I feel no love whatsoever. But you're not supposed to. Yeah, but we get that through the word. But also what we got to remind ourselves that there's a mass percentage out there that have been spun a line at night, you're going to sit in church and you're going to feel this love is going to come down and many as you said sit there going.
Steve:Well, I feel sorry. I feel totally inadequate. I feel. I feel as though God has abandoned them. They've got nothing to give that they're not part of the church. That's all these people are bouncing and leaping all over the place. I really know the love of God. But I don't
Reverend Ben Cooper:that that's it. It's the same with healing, isn't it? God's healing God's healing and you're sitting there going? No, I'm not feeling broken leg. Still wobbly. Now. It's the same, isn't it? It's Prospero Yeah, God given me his gun. No, I still feel the same. Yes. So it's on quite a few levels, isn't it where the church has been preaching on prosperity. This
Steve:is why I'm sorry. This is why it's necessary for the Christian to understand that we live by faith, and that that fight as it matures. As it grows, we are moved deeper into the Lord. And that doesn't mean we go deeper and become more woolly. But we go deeper into his understanding. And much the same, as Paul says here that we're not blown about by every wind of doctrine. When we stand firm, we stand firm in the love of God. Yes. Which I know is mine. Why? Because I look at the cross and I say that's what he did for me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's so so our eyes, look at the cross and we go right. As Steve said, I look at the cross. I know through Scripture that what that means and what that represents. So I see the act. And it's irregardless
Steve:of what you feel is right. It's gotten across.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I see it. So that's it. Yeah, I see it. But I'm not gonna feel it. But I, yeah, there's there's this line that's running through church and Scripture. And there were
Steve:so many people still crying out for this, oh, look, can we have this love or go with us wherever we go, we've got it. You've got the Holy Spirit. He goes with you wherever he goes, he's bringing the love of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that alone, the clear understanding of that should put us in a position of peace. But because we've been fed this funny, old jargon, it's a funny part of all types of stuff. We're all sitting in church going, I'm not feeling it. I'm not feeling it. I'm not feeling it when it actually we're not meant to feel it. We read about God's love, we understand about God's love, we see that fruit across and John 316 That you can't get no more.
Steve:And as we grow, we become more appreciative of the love. Yes. Okay. And as we become more appreciative of that love, what we find is that we in our flesh are dying to self and we are decreasing as their old John the Baptist said, I must decrease his He must increase. Yeah, and it's in that increasing we are more conscious for want of a better word yes. Of the presence of God and even that I don't really like use it because you get this idea of, you know, I can
Reverend Ben Cooper:feel the presence is the same again. I don't feel that because people go can you feel His presence? No. But there are times when God and it's always within isn't it? It always starts with
Steve:how many times have you been in prayer and suddenly you know that God within you with his Greek is Drori is drawing you to excel?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Definitely.
Steve:Yeah, you know, but it's not some more highlights doing this that's dropped on top your aid or comfort, the air conditioning, comfort air conditioning, you know? And so that I mean, there's there's a term being used today, which I absolutely abhor company. I've fallen in love with Jesus. It makes me rich. Yeah, it is it understands it. You know, if you're not biblical, no.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It No it's not. It's clearly not biblical.
Steve:And the thing is that if you stay in that sensuality, okay, we've got the ladies are fell in love with Jesus. Isn't it wonderful? I've fallen in love with my Lord and Savior. And Jesus just stays in the area. Yeah, being a man that way, and never moved into the area being God. And in the blokes come along, and they think, Well, how am I gonna fall in love with a man? Yeah, I'm getting close to a homosexual relationship with Konami. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. So you can't, you can't do it. It doesn't go together. No. So there's two sides of the word love. There's the biblical love and this worldly love that is used and it is worldly love. And it's tied to that word. You can see Frou Frou pride and for all that that gender issue is like a big tidal wave dropped into the church and everyone's going hugs and cuddles. God loves everybody. Well,
Steve:because if you go to Psalm seven here says he hates the wicked I remember reading John MacArthur I
Reverend Ben Cooper:think I think God spelt that wrong. I think he meant as they love not hate.
Steve:I remember reading John MacArthur one time, he said that everybody you know, everybody wants to put outside their church. God loves you, but try putting outside signs 713 God hates the wicked he said try putting it outside your churches CFR you get
Reverend Ben Cooper:you get some attention. But that's that's fact
Steve:Yeah, because God hates the weaker yet we're supposed to be brought to a place of understanding we are wicked, that we are corrupt, that we are distinct. Yes. We are broken down before God we cannot receive the love is given us through Christ Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So so when we look at one Corinthians 13, and it talks about love and charity, when it when it mentions that you know that that is a very interesting description. Love never fails. But it's not talking about feelings. It's talking about the the actions, isn't it when we look at that love never fails. It keeps no records of wrongs,
Steve:if we read it and then we can we can kind of go through it. And we can see that it's got nothing to do with the essential non sensuality of what is to die. Okay. Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels but have not love or have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal now, that you will find. This is replicated in the first letter to the age in church, so replicated in the letter to the Ephesian church in Revelation, Jesus says you've departed from your first love your first love. Okay? Yeah. And so Paul then goes on. And now I have the gift of prophecy and understand all mysteries and all knowledge. And now I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains but have not love I have nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and now I get my body to be burned, but have not love it profits me nothing. Now, here's the thing. If I give all my goods to the poor, surely I'm showing love.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Well,
Steve:okay, but there's plenty of people out there that do good work. But it's got nothing to do with the love of God. Now, you what Paul is saying here? Is that the love out of which you live, yes, through which you live, must come from God. I can have all the fight in the world, I can have all the beliefs in the world and get all the doctrines, right. But if I don't live in the love that he generates within me by the Spirit of God, yes. Which comes through and I must emphasize this, which comes through my dying to self. Yeah, because my love is pointless. Yeah. Okay. Because if we go back to here, what Paul's talking about, if I give up everything, and I give it all away, there's lots of people out there, you know, he's a philanthropic sort of chap, you know, he loves his fellow brother and all the rest of it, but it's not in the love of God. Correct. And if it's not in the love of God, we're talking about meaningless meaningless, okay, Love suffers long. And he's coined. Now what we, as we read this, this is God. This is God. Yeah, this is long, and he's kind, love does not envy, love does not parade itself is not puffed up, does not behave rudely does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth, bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things endures all things. Love never fails. And the point about that is the real challenge here. In some of these things, is love does not parade itself is not puffed up, there's not be like behave rudely does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil. That can't happen. In a human being with a human beings love. As long as the only way that can occur in a man or a woman in Christ is by the power of the Holy Spirit.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But even when you look at all of them, you would have to be some miracle. So
Steve:you can do you can replicate it a little bit like Moses coming up against the magicians in Egypt, to some degree you can replicate Yes,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can to some degree, and we should to some degree,
Steve:you can replicate somebody so but if you're not living out of the Spirit of God, you see the thing about this love. Right?
Reverend Ben Cooper:So this is talking about God. And we know that God is love. And what you're saying is that we we are as ambassadors and we should replicate, we should be trying to hit this stuff. But you know what, but you can't
Steve:like what we should be doing is looking at ourselves and considering why am I doing this? Here? What is the purpose? Why am I doing this? Okay, now, one of the points here says, does not seek its own that's self seeking
Reverend Ben Cooper:self set, right? Pride, would you go under the pride,
Steve:pride? But it's, why are you doing what you're doing? Yeah. Okay, why are you doing it? And you have to dig down inside yourself to find out if what the reason you're doing it really is for God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:For me For me? Is it for me? Is it for me? Or is it for him? Yeah.
Steve:And that if I see Hawk talks in one of these, in one of his letters, he said, he talks about basically what he says his woe is me if I don't preach the gospel. Alright, because God has put something on that man, and he's got to go out and do it. And he says, Don't do it willingly. I think we obey it, we understand that there's a will involved. But he says, Don't do it willingly. Do it? Because God commands me to do it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So there's a difference. Alright, commanded, I don't have a choice. Not
Steve:really, not really. No, you don't. Because when you're saved, if you're really saved, you become a slave of righteousness, and a servant and a slave has no rights. So you do you do what your
Reverend Ben Cooper:master commanded you to do. And there is our master God. And what is he said for his word? Yeah. So there are areas where I don't have a choice. You don't when you know your code.
Steve:If you if you really I mean, we said this the other way, if you pray the Lord's Prayer, not you know, Thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth as it Have we assignors the world at your command in heaven? Let it be done on earth and in me for all right. Now, if you can't say that, if you can't honestly say I want your will howsoever you will it however you work it wherever you want to do, then don't try and get before God until such time as you can write, because you are a slave to righteousness. Yeah, you have yielded any rights
Reverend Ben Cooper:and what you will find your life. Yeah. Gone. All I was
Steve:gonna say is that you've yielded a new rights because God has given or Christ has given you the right to be called a child. That's right. Yeah. Now when Jesus came, what did he say? I didn't come to do my Well, I can't do it. And we'll remove certainly, that's 100%. Right. And that's what we need to do to do the will of Him who sends us
Reverend Ben Cooper:and when you do what you're saying that we should be doing, suddenly you realize, you look inwardly and suddenly you find your life is not what you thought it would be. Because you're not going by feelings and what you want and the happiness of this and that. And the pleasures of the flesh in the world, suddenly you find that the will of the Father is the opposite. And then you are wrestling with yourself. But then you find out that but then you get peace. You're really what
Steve:the thing is, at the end, you find out really why do you really want God's will in your life, and you've got to go through it. You really want God's will in your life, you don't want your will know it, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's empty, isn't it? What is a
Steve:we've lived our own will for years, and we've hated it, and we don't want it. We want to live the will of God. Yeah. And we yield to it. And yes, part and parcel of that is wrestling with God about our condition, our pride, our selfishness, as self serving. And as Christians, we we are still contentious at times, we still want to prove our, you know, I believe this in the word and I'm gonna make sure that that bloke believes it to what that's not really of God. He's got it wrong, and I've got it wrong, right. I'm right. You're wrong. Yeah. You know, because I know because God's revealed this to me. And we suddenly we were in this place of self service. We're not serving Christ. We're not a slave of righteousness. You know, back then, when Paul talked about slaves of righteousness. That's exactly what he was talking about.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No choice, ball and chain, get on with it. And when
Steve:he when he said, You slaves and our freemen corps and your freemen and are slaves what
Reverend Ben Cooper:an impact? What an impact to a real slave. Yeah. If we were to do a real study on what they was and how they was treated, oh, my goodness, what
Steve:owned they were along stock and beta? They were they were owed, even if they were owned by a good master. All right. They won't. They had no life. They have no choice. Even the good master? Yeah, he gave them place to live. He gave SharePoint, but they were there to do His will and His bidding, eating communist. Excuse me, can you do it? Is he winning? There's no way you go over there and do that. And if they argued with him slap, it could have sold them to this in the side market. And so this, you know, we've grown up in this day and age, you know, with this idea of, of not understanding what it means to serve a king, and a lord and a master.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when we say I'm a slave to righteousness, I don't actually really think enough about that text. I'm a slave to righteousness.
Steve:I've been purchasing we talk about I've been purchased. I've been, I've been bought by the blood of Christ, I am now owned by Christ. Where did he buy me from? He bought me out of the kingdom of darkness. He bought me by His blood out of the kingdom of darkness. He bought me by His blood from under the wrath of God. He bought me from the condition of sin which was leading to death, and he has given me his life. And now, as Paul said, I do not live but Christ lives within me. And yet I live the life I live. I now live to the glory of the Son of God. And so this whole, this has got nothing to do with feelings. This has to do with a commitment. This has to do with fight. This has to do with walking with Christ. irregardless of what you feel, and how you feel it's got it's got nothing to do if you're not if you're looking for a love beyond the cross. I'll tell you this, your blaspheming across definitely. All right, because there is no love higher greater Christ widen. And if you want to feel something, I'm sorry, you're wrong. totally and utterly. We're not going to feel that you need to walk by faith. You need to look in there and say Jesus died for me. I believe If God loves me, because he's told me that his son died for me, and therefore, our walk in the love of God, in the story, no matter how feel, doesn't matter what's going on a walk in the love of God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that's fact. That's a fact. That's a fact. That's it. That's it.
Steve:And as a saint as we mature as we grow as we are crucified, and we come to this fullness of the stature of the measure of Christ, this mind of ours, which has been transformed, and sorry, this morning, which were transformed by the renewing of your mind, let's get it right, as our mind is renewed by the washing of the waters word. We become more understanding of the love of God, we become more understanding of our placing God, we become more understanding of who we are in God. And this grows because it says, Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you might prove that good, perfect, and acceptable will of God. And that perfect will of God is for you to know that you are loved. And that love has been shown toward you on the cross. Right? And if you want to get gooey and mushy about it, fine, but don't try and walk in you can you can't, you can't. You can't.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You can't walk in Because
Steve:seriously, if you want to walk in mushy love, right? Now, seriously, if you want to mushy love, as soon as persecution comes, that's going out the window is gone. You don't find you have to go when that guy smashes you in the face. Yeah. Or he killed your wife, or killed your children. Yeah, the commandment. Bless those who despitefully use you. You can't do that we mushy love, don't work. No, you need a love that Christ Himself head and showed when he was on the cross. And He said, Father forgive them for they don't know what they're doing. The people that were killing him, he created those pieces, right? It created them. Yeah, they were crucifying him. And he asked God to forgive
Reverend Ben Cooper:him. You can't you can't work that out. You can't do
Steve:that. No, in a mushy love. It just doesn't work
Reverend Ben Cooper:in a fluffy candy floss love. It doesn't
Steve:run a mile from any extra love. It's of no benefit. It's fleshly. It's essential. It's got no bearing at all on our walk with the Lord. And it takes us away from the Scripture completely takes us why we don't, then we're not walking by faith. We're walking by sight and
Reverend Ben Cooper:it becomes all dreamy. And all of all just fluffy as you said. And what about the scripture it says nothing can separate from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus died. It's beautiful, isn't it?
Steve:Let's go read that show.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Let's open that up. Nothing can Oh, that is that is so
Steve:let's let's read that. Just so
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can't be pulled? It comes up with some good and well
Steve:somebody did because he got a few strikes. Right? Okay. What then shall we say these things? If God is for us who can be against us? He who did not spare His own Son but delivered Him up for us? Or how shall he not with him also for you and give us all things? Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. Who is he who condemns? This Christ who died and fought furthermore is also risen. Who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us, Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation or distress, or persecution or famine, or nakedness or peril short and everybody stops there? But he goes on as it is written for your sake, we are killed all day long. We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. What Paul talking about? We are dying to our souls. Yeah, we have to be continuous. Daily. Yep. We are sheep for the slaughter. We must be crucified with Christ, that Christ might be found manifest in us. Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life, nor angels nor principalities, not powers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creative things, you'll be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus, amen. It's got nothing to do with how fluffy I feel?
Reverend Ben Cooper:No, no do feelings, nothing to do with that whatsoever. So when we look at the scriptures, and we really ask God to take us deeper, it froze open so much more, doesn't it now I feel more comfortable. I can sit in church, because I'm not meant to feel this God of Israel. I'm not meant to have this touching experience of wrapping around. It's by five it's by faith, but it's within. It's all within everything is within. So the thing about
Steve:that is if if we can't get to that, why I say the first Step Yeah, of fight of accepting the love of God in Christ, we will never mature into the deepest things.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's right. Yeah, there is there is a point that we've got we're held out isn't that if
Steve:we don't get to that we can't go to the deepest things. We can't do it. Because if we can't accept the love of God by faith, how on earth are we gonna go through all things that Paul went through and all the others went through? I mean, was it shipped I think was a Hudson Tyler, I'm not sure if it was Hudson, Tyler. Anyway. It was one of the one of the old men of God that went out either to China or to India. And when he went out there, God called him out and and when he got out there, his wife died. And then his children died. And he went through proxy, what it should have gone through paroxysms of anguish, but the comfort of God during that period of time, he said, Lord, You know what this is all about. And I put my trust in you. You are my God, You are my Lord. I know where my wife is. I know where my children are. And I trust in You. Wow. And he served God
Reverend Ben Cooper:faithfully faithfully serve them walk with him, just because he walked in FEIS, that that is the key, isn't it? That is the key to everything. walking by faith, flattens everything of the fluff. Yeah, I mean, it destroys it all brings
Steve:we talk about George Mueller, and how it was that he would sit and wait for these things to be there. The reason Mahler was able to get to that point, is because he started quite simply with the point that he believed God loved him. It believed in the promises of God. We don't believe in the promises. And now with that, we believe that we've got to do it. We we must do. But it's there, isn't it? I? You know, it was written this morning. I can't remember now. But he said. There are no great men of God. There are only men through whom there are only men who are weak, through whom God did great things. Wow. All right. Yeah. And we look at these these so called great men of God, and they were broken men. Yeah, definitely walked not in their own, not understanding. They walked in the understanding that Christ gave them, they walked in face. They knew that He was God, Lord, Savior, King, he was master. He had saved him. He had given his life for them. On top of that, what atoms, the father drooling, drew them to his son, that through the Son, they might know the Father. This is all the work of God. Yeah, all of this. The whole area of salvation of sanctification of glorification is great that I do like that when people start telling me that it's their face that cite them. Oh, I like to think that myself, well, you're gonna glorify yourself. And yeah, that's a good one. But the thing is that it's, it's all of God's salvation. It says in salvation is of the Lord. That's it done. Okay. And we have to trust in him for that. Now, I think one of the reasons why the Lord is I mean, it's been a bit of a burden of mine anyway. But I think one of the reasons why it's it's come out more now is that we know the cataclysm that's going to come upon the earth over these next months. Yeah, if people aren't walking by faith, and they're walking by failing, they're walking by feelings. Yeah. He's just gonna crack and I have some real problem, it's gonna be even if they are, even if they are the elect, even if they are chosen by God, you have to go I are gonna be in turmoil. You have to go by faith.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I believe that there is a stirring amongst many, many that, that God is turning us to walk by faith to trust Him, to just to learn to listen to differently, to walk differently to understand the scriptures. You
Steve:got to get past this first hurdle. Yeah. If you don't get past that first hurdle, you will never get to the deepest things. You will never be God will never trust you know, all right, he will not trust you with His glory. Because he won't, you won't be able to because you'll be we come back to the Corinthian letter. If I do all these things. On and off myself, glorifying God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I've done it. He deserves
Steve:the glory. He deserves the honor.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We just instruments. We are.
Steve:Yes, we are instruments, but we're His children yielded to him that are happy to say, this is your honor. This is your glory. I don't want it. I'm not going to be like Ooza and reach out and grow. Read the the Ark when it's about to fall because you don't need my help.
Reverend Ben Cooper:No. All right, don't touch the ark. OSHA left, reach down. Oh
Steve:God, God killed him. And David at the um, but basically God said, Look, I've already got I've set Levites to one so I know he wants to leave. Right. And he knew he shouldn't have touched it. And you shouldn't have to worry about these things because I've gotten those a please don't you think are fashion the rock over which that that was going to fall noticing? I knew it was gonna fall.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, there's an interest in you.
Steve:Don't touch the glory of God. It's his. It belongs to him. And I don't want it. Thank you very much. It will destroy me. Oh, yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:that whole new subject altogether. You couldn't carry it? You couldn't? People? Oh, gosh. It's so deep business people go so far. But this
Steve:is the point. We've said this. Once you start once you start studying God and you go from one place to another. It just it just rolls on. It rolls
Reverend Ben Cooper:on and you're suddenly go, oh, Lord, I'm far from I'm far from feelings. I can't feel it can't sit it can't can't stand it sitting in the in the area to church. Can you feel good in a room?
Steve:No. And yet, strangely enough, there have been times when I've been in a place. Yeah, and I've.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But that's not It's not every service is it? Once in a moment of a moment, and it lasts like that.
Steve:Because he comes along to encourage us that isn't he draws us to himself. But now we're not supposed to walk in our senses.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because now you can't because that's sort of natural. That's of the body. Yes. There's a difference between senses and spiritual worlds apart. See, the
Steve:thing is, when I said earlier on about their own dogs, Mala. Mala was brought to this place of complete trust in God. And he had loads of kids that yet feed and he had loads of stuff to do. And he trusted in God to send everything. Right. There might be people around the day that live like that. I don't know them. All right. I certainly can't live like that. But I think that's where God is leading us. Like you said, Yeah, I think that's where he's leaning us. But we we've got to be honest about ourselves. We've got to be honest, if we don't get through that first hurdle, yes. Right, of walking by faith, in the simplest aspect of the love of God.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah. We're always going to be wrestling and never
Steve:ever go. We're never stand in the day of destruction.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Now you're gonna, you're gonna get blown. Well, it's blown away all over the place, and it's gonna get worse.
Steve:Yeah. And so all I would say is that if if anybody that's listening is feeling upset or depressed, because they don't feel the love of God. Don't feel upset. Those people that tell you that they're walking around in the love of God, and it's all lovely and fluffy. I would say I question their faith. Yeah, I would honestly question their face, because they're not trusting in the cross of Christ, which is the fullness of the love of God poured out for us than and as I said before, if you want something beyond the cross, or your build your blaspheming you're not enough. It's not enough. That's not enough. It's not enough.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I want more.
Steve:I want more. We're what right no more there ain't no
Reverend Ben Cooper:more. You've got it. You. Well, have you got it. There we go. Really interesting, really, really deep, really powerful. Thank you, Lord God, for bringing this to us. And for Steve, sharing what you've dropped in his heart today, Lord, Father, we thank you. God bless you, Steve. God bless everybody on the other side. On the other side of the these mics, and wherever you pick up this, we thank God for your life and we just pray that you will just continue to seek Him. Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and everything else shall be added unto thee wherever you are. Thank you so much for sharing all this stuff out the downloads across the earth. Have a wonderful day. Morning, evening, wherever you are whenever you listen to this stuff back. Thank you so much. We'll catch you soon. God bless.
Close:Thank you for listening to Elim church Swanleys latest podcast. You can find us on buzzsprout, Spotify, Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play, Alexa Mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.