Good morning and welcome. Thank you so much for joining us here at # Christian straight talk you're joining Simon Pinchbeck and myself as we just gather across the mics this morning, straight out of the barrel of truth wherever you are crossed this earth may God bless you and strengthen you. And may the joy of the Lord be your strength. And we are in an interesting subject Simon is bringing it to the table. I wonder what it could be let's let's say hello to him and let's see what it's about Simon morning.
Simon Pinchbeck:only been on quite a bit of juicy stuff. Have you been on?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Tell me what? Gossip today got it? We're not gossip. We gossipers in the church?
Simon Pinchbeck:Do you know when I think women get tarred with a real bad brush? But men have biggest
Reverend Ben Cooper:massive mouth I love gossip. People love the old tongue wagging. On someone one bit of dirt Yeah. All in the name of Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:This person's done. Have you heard what that person has? Done? The word is dangerous in it but it's really done. Oh
Reverend Ben Cooper:Joking aside it's dangerous, isn't it?
Simon Pinchbeck:And it's a dangerous sin which flies under the radar.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, thinking really thinking about this? You never hear messages? Do you really sermons preached on it or Bible studies spoke about it. You never really the scriptures are never really brought up obey. Are they when you think about it, but but it's the way society isn't it even outside the church in the church wherever you go, workplace Oh, my goodness, the show. Church. I think the church has drummed it up with the old church grapevine isn't it? Or
Simon Pinchbeck:Chinese whispers all that sort of stuff. And people love God's love it. And they love it when someone else ain't doing so good. Which is I wonder
Reverend Ben Cooper:if it's something to do with the fact that it takes the bullet away from myself?
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. Didn't Jesus say he said it in the in the Sermon on the Mount. And then in Matthew six, he said, he said, he said, don't take the speck out of someone else's identity. While you've got a plank in your own I
Reverend Ben Cooper:got plank in your own eye. You're certainly due to see Jesus of Nazareth, the King of King said that in the New Testament, stop looking at your neighbor or someone else on the other side, the arena of life of you. They've just got a tiny, tiny speck. When actually Ben in your in your vision in your right in your focus. Go for it. I got for it. And it's bigger than the Trove. There's more going on me than anything. There's more going in on me around me about me. It's all about me again. Coming back to idle. It's all about what else interests interested in it. Yeah, it brings it back to them. They
Simon Pinchbeck:really interesting. And even though you're trying to be humble, get away from yourself. It's about me. And keep talking about me. Do you think if you if you've got a bit of gossip, then it's all about you too. And it because yeah, you are the center and you
Reverend Ben Cooper:look great. This is all about me. They saw it build my profile, build me gossip profile. It's interesting. The flesh. So the gossip,
Simon Pinchbeck:you know, blah, blah, blah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Have you heard about them? What about? Yeah, but we're doing it all in brotherly love. We're doing it all on Bradley, I
Simon Pinchbeck:want to say this in love. Because I love him and he's great is that or She's beautiful? She's great. She's a pro.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But did you know that she's didn't know there was?
Simon Pinchbeck:And she was seen with another fellow? Well, you know what circumstances? Well, you know, all of a sudden, we want to exaggerate, then we want to make something more than what
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, it's really it's all about stories, isn't it? It's interesting, our testimony, and a story and a gossip snowballed out
Simon Pinchbeck:of control. Because we love to be the central information to me. Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:information and attention. They both go together. Then they went away that from the bend, just put it around and pray. Pray Allah
Simon Pinchbeck:before when I was in the police for as a Christian, you know, and I ended up getting another copper and I got suspended and a few things came back to me, you know, gossip, things came back to me. I was put from people that I'd work with and we were good friends. Yeah. He's an animal. He was it was always going to happen. How he's done some unlicensed boxing. He was doing this that and the governor none of it was actually true. And, oh, yeas involved with a criminal gang and he's a he's a gang leader and all that sort of stopping is all nonsense but he's dangerous stuff because it was fueling you know, a fire that was that was that was wrong. And even when I become a Christian Ben that I was in a cult, you know, I mean, really? Yeah. So the gossip was flying around bed, you know, he's gone off his head, he's in a coma, you know?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think Am I what comes to mind is timing in the tongue. The language and you know, the the it says in the book of James done it the the tongue is a smallest muscle in the body. But the most damning, the most dangerous, the most powerful, you know, because either you're going to lift people up, or you're going to tear people down. And it's interesting that religion and church says that they're they're doing it pastorelli when actually they're gossiping, gossiping. In the name of the Scripture, they're using the Scripture as an excuse to talk about someone, when actually I've got a look at myself, because James makes it clear. Be careful of that tongue because that tongue should be doing a bonobo situation encouraging your brothers or sisters, or you're giving them a weapon through the expression of your language, through gossip, gossip, gossip, explodes as quick as anything as soon as it's a wildfire. And, yeah, it is out of control.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's like a spark, you know, in a in a, you know, we've had very little rain, but it's a spark in a walk in a forest that suddenly from a little fire. And it's, it can run away and be uncontrollable with this with the stuff it starts to that momentum. And it's
Reverend Ben Cooper:dangerous. It's very rumors, the rumors start James chapter three, if anyone wants to have a read of that, you know, it says in verse in James chapter three, verse six, the tongue also is a fire a world among the part of the body is powerful. It corrupts the whole body so it affects me as well as affecting you. It affects me spiritually. Because the flesh loves the story, doesn't it? The flashlight testimonies, a testimony can get elongated can get stretched, even in from the pulpit.
Simon Pinchbeck:You can throw a few things into you think, you know, you just got to make it a little bit more intriguing exaggerate because it gets exaggerated, doesn't it? But But look what he says spin in your that's a great scripture in James and James is a great book, but I think it's an underrated book would too. But because there's there's some amazing stuff in James. Paul says in Ephesians, 429 or 31. If we just look at our read, when he says when he says Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth. Or Hang on. Corrupt, Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth. But what is good for necessary edification. So you're right, we should be building up people not pulling them down.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's quite as a fine. There's a fine biblical line here, isn't there? Because obviously we got correction, we got correction, as in biblical correction, as in following the biblical structure of eldership leadership when someone is doing something wrong in a fellowship, and it's got to be corrected, verbally through prayer and through through through the word of God. But then it goes beyond that, then it
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, but then when when that when that correction, you speak to the person face to face? That's correct. Gossip is beyond that person's.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But also Yeah, and you're putting
Simon Pinchbeck:them on the bus. Oh, brother.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So it's a fine line, isn't it? Because what you're saying so edification, edification, even in leadership and correction, and helping someone that is living in sin because we're all in sin. There is no one that can be living this Christian life, right to the holy cow. It's impossible. It can't be
Simon Pinchbeck:a comeback to what we said last week, when Billy even Billy Graham said, he said, I can't beat the flesh in the flesh, I need the Holy Spirit
Reverend Ben Cooper:I need the Holy Spirit. So and James talks about the taming of the tongue look at these talks about the enormity of the ships how how a massive vessel is controlled by a tiny rider, small rudder, a small rudder and then he talks about the horses putting a bit in a horse's mouth controlling a wild animal and then he talks about the human being that the smallest muscle in the body but it can really damage so gossip damages as well as damages
Simon Pinchbeck:you know as a there's a proverb out there said out of the mouth to heart flow start flows. So every
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, that's a that's a scripted throw on the on the table, a doughnut out of the heart, the mat, so what I feed myself should be coming out should be coming out. Yeah. And that is correct, isn't it and eventually
Simon Pinchbeck:what is in there will come out so If your heart is not right, in actuation for God in a certain situation with certain person, eventually,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you'll see the true inner frustration. That's anger. That is gossip that is slander. That is the way a character of a person is their true heart, isn't it?
Simon Pinchbeck:We've got it that won't come out towards them personally want to one that will come out because you could be as nice as anything to their face will come out when when they've walked out the door. What
Reverend Ben Cooper:door Have you heard? Or what do you think about Oh, damn, we're doing this in brotherly love the ad you know, what? Do you know what do you know what we're probate brother?
Simon Pinchbeck:Do you remember that program? It's a program that Sally kufrin take? I don't know if you remember. She played a grandma.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Goodness. As soon as soon as
Simon Pinchbeck:someone came in, she was all sweating.
Reverend Ben Cooper:All the time? Oh, my goodness, the
Simon Pinchbeck:space it says exactly.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's quite interested gossip, gossip, gossip runs, you know the church, great, fine. I think that is a great way to present that isn't it? It goes filters through you know, the world, you know, the workplace, it's always been there. It's always been there in church and religion. So you got to be careful having you know, the way that you speak to people the way you treat people. Because I do believe we're living in broken times. And what we need is, is encouragers in our lives, we need people to encourage us to strengthen us, to guide us, you know, we don't need that loose tongue of because also with gossip, comes the slander with the slander comes anger and, and people get the wrong opinion. Now, that's another thing, isn't it opinion, and gossip gets the wrong opinion about us. And they judge us
Simon Pinchbeck:because you're sitting there quietly doing going crazy. And the Lord just was like, gonna get on with life. And there's a whole there's a whole rhetoric out there about slavery about you, that's me and you,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and which is not true.
Simon Pinchbeck:And, you know, if you're, if you got a church leader that embraces that, you ain't gonna get any further in the church or, you know, if you've got a worship leader that embraces that gossip, you're not going to get any further in your job. That is the this is the the wicked side of gossip. It's, you know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:because within the gossip, there's no truth. It's all falsehood, isn't it? So you're actually doing the devil's bidding, you're actually doing that work? Because it's all lies. It's all slander, so your eyes and so you're speaking exactly as the dark agents want you to be and gossiping.
Simon Pinchbeck:And these days, you can you can put together somebody on social media, which absolutely hammers that person's character. Yeah. And it's, a lot of people go well, there's no smoke without fire don't know. That's what that's the term they use. You know,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it takes two to tango. Yeah, well, actually, that's. There's, there's some serious things that we need to be careful of in the last days, you know, the tongue is a dangerous, it is very, very dangerous. And we have been given clear instruction through the word of God, you know, we praise him It says in first night of James with the tongue, we praise our Lord and Father, and with it also, we curse human beings. Isn't that interesting? In James chapter three, verse nine. With the tongue, we praise our Lord hallelujah. Jesus Sunday morning with miracles, we're praying for miracles. We pray for you. God is with you. He loves you. Yeah. Have you heard about that dog?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, you know, the thing is what you got to what people have gotten understand the Lord sees the heart, dummy. Yeah. So it doesn't matter what you're doing on outside
Reverend Ben Cooper:lip service, noise, crushing the drum. And the back end, I've just realized something in that text. It says in verse in chapter three of James chapter three, verse nine, it says, with the tongue, we praise our Lord and our God. And with it, we curse human beings. That is talking about human beings, not believers. interest in what the text says. So in church, at the Church of people in every area of our life, he's talking about humanity. For the first time, I see something I haven't seen for a long time, and it says, have been made in God's likeness. So so it doesn't matter does it is doesn't matter who it is. You're speaking bad about God.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. About, about someone who's been made in the likeness of God,
Reverend Ben Cooper:made in the likeness of God. Out of the same mouth comes praising and Kirsten, cursing sorry, of the same mouth. comes praising and cursing.
Simon Pinchbeck:But I
Reverend Ben Cooper:wouldn't bet go on site, but it's
Simon Pinchbeck:the truth. You know, I think there's very few people that very few people that would stand up and go. If that's a bit of gossip, I don't want to hear it on, because you're gonna tell me something that I won't be able to get out my head, you know? So yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And then do not. Gossip is not truth. Gossip lays a dodgy foundation that can meet that can't be almost a raised we judge people by what we hear when we actually do not know, the real person.
Simon Pinchbeck:So yeah, of course, it was very much like when when I was in the in the police force what you do, you'd you you've got about two or three seconds to sum up a situation. Yeah. And so very quickly, you'd go, Well, if that happened, that happened, then that must happen. That must have happened. Close. You work on Closure very quickly, you know, so here we are. Oh, yeah. This person was seen when that person or that person did this. So we're not we're coming to the conclusion without even speaking to that person. Yeah, that's right. The reason behind that?
Reverend Ben Cooper:And actually, yeah, so then we come in, then we bring into the Word and into the arena, the word of opinions than opinion. Yeah. opinionated people, in my opinion, in my opinion, in my opinion, Janelle wok, who's interested in your opinion, you know, what the amount of times I hear that and, and you think, and then when, and then the other thing that comes in and the gossip opinionated people is anger. So they're angry as well.
Simon Pinchbeck:But there's a pride. It's a pride issue,
Reverend Ben Cooper:because it's always right.
Simon Pinchbeck:If you're not banging on about your opinion, yeah, this is
Reverend Ben Cooper:my way. This is Frank Sinatra way.
Simon Pinchbeck:This is my way or the highway, this is my opinion.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And they should have done this. And they should have done that. And this is
Simon Pinchbeck:a pride factor would lead to anger when it
Reverend Ben Cooper:comes back to what Jesus says, don't look at the forest in your own eyes, son, because you got pride, you got anger issues. You've got a loose tongue, you've got an attitude problem out, your character is not good. You're you're speaking slander about a situation that hasn't even been brought into existence. So it's quite frightening, isn't it that suddenly a tiny, tiny spark as turned into a forest fire when actually it's been a built on opinions? Judgmental attitudes, anger, I'm going to get you back without even sitting on understanding what that means. are this is good. I'm gonna I'm gonna add some Do you remember when they done that? Do you remember years? Do you remember? The little black book? But what does it say in one Corinthians 13? Yeah, love keeps no record of wrongs.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah. And that's what you said is very, very true. And especially the bit about the judgmental thing. I'm better than you are better than this person, because that person is doing this, but I'm not going to tell you my dark dirty
Reverend Ben Cooper:secrets. Yeah. That, that no one sees
Simon Pinchbeck:no one sees and the prayer that that we've been praying together and what you instigated, Ben was Father stripped me back from all of this. And when you pray that pray, if you got the courage out there to pray that prayer, all of a sudden, you start seeing yourself and you ain't as good as you think. So don't believe your own press cuttings. You ain't a legend? You're probably a legend in your own lunchtime but you ain't your agent
Reverend Ben Cooper:in the mirror. Legend in a mirror that's all it is. That's all it is. That's all it is
Simon Pinchbeck:all it is before the Lord you we are absolutely nothing going but with him we are everything that's the truth. But if we go back that you know that James is powerful and the Feagins goes on to say Ben that um, so is what what comes out should be good for necessary edification that it may important grace to the hearers. So you should be good, good Edie? Because you could build it up to the errors and it goes on to say, and this this is getcha right? It says And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, wrath, anger, clamor and evil speaking be put away from you with all malice.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's heavy that hard hitting is a sledgehammer. That's a sledgehammer from the gospel, isn't it?
Simon Pinchbeck:And be kind to one another tender hearted, forgiving one another even as God in Christ has forgiven you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:tender hearted forgiving kindness. So it's really the Holy Spirit. And
Simon Pinchbeck:if sometimes you can feel it, you feel a thud? Yeah, the chest. Definitely, yeah, when you're speaking wrong about somebody, and it robs your piece as well.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And it and it creates a character that you're you're not really like because you're almost following a certain crowd or certain layer may be around you. You know, you got to be careful in the crowd Avenue as well, because the crowd is very powerful to crowd can instigate instigate something that isn't really true. Well, you're all fading off it. And it's, it's like, gossip fuels the flesh.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, the biggest finger at the moment, PET NEWS is the social media thing, isn't it? So we have online bullying, and within, within all sorts of walks of life, and especially within school, and online bullying is a render so you aren't a fit in go along with it, or you don't or you stand against it. So. So if you go along with it, you're just as bad as everyone else. So once you and I remember in a previous podcast, we described standing against the tide as a salmon flowing upstream didn't, we did,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, that was a year. And that's how it feels. And it doesn't, it doesn't leave you did it. And that's where endurance comes in. That's what were the word endurance, I've got to endure. I've got to push. I've got to keep going. I've got to be careful what my ears hear and what I engage in, in conversation. So it comes back to having the correct people around you. Having the correct spirit filled, you know, brothers and sisters that will encourage you that will help you when you're down and you're tired and you're weary. And Simon just read a scripture, it talks about kindness, kindness, there's something about being kind to a fellow human being. And I've never seen that, as I've seen that today. In the in the book of James about a hit, he talks about human beings. We're all just human beings that need kindness that need love, that don't need the backlash from from gossip that don't need angry people. You know, I think the biggest gossipers can be are angry people, religious, angry people. And not because we understand what gossip means. But with an angry person comes opinion and not an opinionated issues. And people are more dangerous than gossip as well. Because when someone has got an opinion about you, and this is how you should be. And I think and I want you to be like this. That means they're trying to shape us into someone that we're not. And when we don't. And when we don't conform to what they want us to do. Then the gossip starts now. They're not controllable. He treats me like this. They're like that he don't love me, do you? Not I mean, so then we become in we become caught in the arena of this big conflict. Because strong opinionated people and people that are in the crowd, want to control so it's nothing worse than having a controlling person around you, opinionated person, and then the gossip starts to fly like fireworks.
Simon Pinchbeck:And that happens across the board where people try and shape and mold.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah. And then when I won't conform. Yeah. And I think we can go to David and Saul. David said, I think at the soul said to David, this is best for you. When you go and fight Goliath put on my armor. Hang on a minute. That's your armor that's fit for you. It doesn't fit it doesn't feel right. So don't don't expect me to go into the battlefield of life with what you think I need to go down in the arena with but then gossip started started talking bad about him.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, that's interesting. You said that because we did a podcast recently on character and yeah, God has put certain characteristics in each of us and everyone else and and certain ways certain certain denominations certain ministry is trying to mold you or influence you to the way that they want you to be and rather than rather than looking at what the Lord has gifted you what he's given you and going, well, let's encourage that. And we can use that set going your own gift coming your own gifting rather than going in assault armor. And to be honest, Ben, I think there's literally 1000s of people out there that that have got amazing gifts from the Lord that have been ignored because
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, someone else in a congregation or in the pulpit wants you to go in what they think is right for you. When actually David makes a very clear understanding is what what is right for you so isn't for Me. So it brings it back to we are all individuals, we are all different. We all go into the arena of life very, very differently. And we all deal with battles very, very differently. But God is the center. But if you are with someone that is a strong character like Soul, and if he doesn't like the fact or they don't like the fact that you said, No, actually, I'm going to not do it my way. But I'm going to do it the way God and our way I feel is correct here. Thank you very much. See, that change saw at that point, he didn't like the fact that David went, No, so it's not. It's not right for me.
Simon Pinchbeck:Rather than Yeah, I mean, that we've gone on that scenario rather than saw, saying, oh, Davidson, a mighty generally my army is doing amazing things. There was a jealousy that was kinda Yeah, and, and
Reverend Ben Cooper:we think Gothic
Simon Pinchbeck:style, many, many people who will listen this have experienced that if you're, if if you are rising, and you're moving forward, someone will get jealous, and all of a sudden, there'll be something thrown across your bowels to as a barrier to. But yeah, so it was interesting, very interesting what you said. Then, earlier, when we in the preamble for we got onto the mics. You said that whatever is virtually you said, whatever is for you won't pass you by so it was so tight what God's got for you. Even that it might be a roundabout way, even though people being so upfront to barriers in the way even though the enemies trying to distract you. If aren't in, use a fake all you got is still for the Lord. It will move. It'll move through.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And when you fall, you say, Lord, help me Forgive me. Because what what is coming to me a lot lately is Deuteronomy chapter six, right where the Scripture says, Do not forget the Lord thy God. We are all living in busy lives, busy world busy, certain circumstances of life where we can easily forget the Lord. But it's not that we forgotten. Our first love is the busyness of living and the busyness of life. So with the busyness of life comes what gossip, stress, strain, pain. So when he says Do not forget, it's not talking about nothing can separate us from the love of God, but the busyness of living and the pressure of life. Don't forget the Lord in your circumstances. Ben,
Simon Pinchbeck:don't forget the love, forget the Lord. And I love this. Ben, Psalm 1611 says this, he says, you will show me the way of Life granting me the joy of your presence, and the pleasures of living with you forever. So you know, if you were sticking close to
Reverend Ben Cooper:the Lord, and its heart condition, Simon, it's the heart. It's no other physical outside, I can speak it. I can be eloquent in my language I can. I can speak wonderful about people, I can praise people, I can do this, I can do that. But if my heart is not right, it's meaningless.
Simon Pinchbeck:And again, we come back to that zactly you know, the heart, the mouth speaks
Reverend Ben Cooper:the speak. So my heart is more important than anyone else's life. And that's not that I'm rejecting. Because if I'm not right with the Lord, if you I'll affect everyone around me.
Simon Pinchbeck:If your hearts corrupt and manipulative, then yeah, you're gonna say nice things to people,
Reverend Ben Cooper:because I want it my way I want to, you want to manipulate I want to gain out of this situation. Yeah. So the heart of a person, which is the inner most being is so important. So when I get my heart right with God, then the word gossip starts to disappear when, when I'm drawn into that arena of conversation. I won't engage in it, I'll say, I can't,
Simon Pinchbeck:I can't. Because what will happen is, someone will give you a call and go did you know if you weren't, and you'll go look at my you know, I love you the bits, but I don't want to listen to that stuff. Because it's just gossip,
Reverend Ben Cooper:to know what that causes. When when you actually had the boldness to say that, then that causes an issue between the person that is telling you something, because they go, hang on a minute,
Simon Pinchbeck:what I got to examine what their heart is.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So all of a sudden, someone not engaging in worldly gossip and slander and all that suddenly that stands up and goes. Now I'm going to give this a swerve this time now. I'm sorry, but I don't want to engage in that. And I mean, it was that we've been then suddenly, the gossip disappears or the other person and because I've said and I've been the boldness to say to Saul, hang on a minute, I'm not going to engage in this. I'm gonna leave this one. I'm just gonna go the way of God on this. I'm going to stay in the Scripture. What do you mean? Nothing and then suddenly there becomes a barrier between the gossip that has come I'm in my way. And because I've had the boldness and then suddenly, I find that there's another issue being brought to the table because that person has gone. What's up with him? There's nothing wrong, ma'am. I'm trying to
Simon Pinchbeck:ask God to change me and it stops with you. And it starts stop stops with me. But look, Proverbs 1626. And as proverbs 16 is a great set of set of Proverbs and 28 says, a perverse man so strife, and a whisper separates the best of friends. And a Whisper, whisper separates the best of friends. And there's another action if someone is jealous of your friendship with someone else, all of a sudden, they'll be whispering things in your ear about that person
Reverend Ben Cooper:for a very interesting word whisper because if you used to go to Genesis and you look how the devil Satan spoke, spoke very quietly. With whispers Be careful of the whisper, the lesser voice. When God speaks, he speaks orderly, he speaks powerfully. He speaks strong God's word brought the world into being when God speaks the world moves. When the devil speaks, he's quiet. He's under the carpet. Under the table. It's under the tarmac. We got a conversation on that one going on around here. Do you know Simon has made an order Bible and spoken to us today? Very clearly. whispers whispering quiet conversation behind closed doors. Did you hear? Did you hear what? Listen to this one. I'm going to tell you sign it's going to make your boat blow off. Tell me. Really? Wow. So that gospel gospel can whisper shocking. But is there anyone out there? bold enough to say I've never engaged in it? Oh, I
Simon Pinchbeck:think we've all we all enjoy it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm in trouble.
Simon Pinchbeck:He loves it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:He loves it.
Simon Pinchbeck:The flesh loves it because it's somewhere in Proverbs it says it's like a gossip is like a choice more so more. So which goes into most BM
Reverend Ben Cooper:feeds in feeds. Yeah. Because it's dire. It's deflection what we have gossip deflects what is really going on within me, because the more I can deflect what is going on really within me, because Christ makes me look at me. But gossip makes me look at everybody else. And the elongated and the elevating and the stretching of a story can make me feel better about me because unrighteous I'm alright, I've got this right, but they haven't over there. When actually the issue is not them over there. It's actually me, it comes back to what Jesus said again, you've got a forest in your eye. We've got a forest and
Simon Pinchbeck:it's very, very important to realize that, that God has promised to destroy this stuff. Yeah, listen this Romans 129 to 32 He goes, being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil mindedness. Listen to what he says now. They are whispers whispers back biters. haters of God, violent proud, boasters inventors of evil things, disobedience to their parents on discerning, trustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, a merciful who knowing the righteousness and the judgment of God, that those who practice such things are disturbing death. Not only do they do the same, but also approve of those who practice them right out late and other throws
Reverend Ben Cooper:it on the table. It highlights it. The whisper that whisper the whisper the silent
Simon Pinchbeck:lies to like them capris. I used to love Christmas
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's just Oh my Lord, help please, God help me. Lord, the more we talked the more we are open on this platform Lord, I realized a wretched man Oh my Jesus, please, please help me. Please help me learn to stop speaking. To Be careful who I speak about what I engage in, who I talk with who I associate with the crowd of people around me Lord. The crowd is very influential social media has been pressing the drum for a long time I'll find yourself an influencer. Hang on a minute. I don't need a worldly influencer because the influencer will big themselves that and they'll try and pick me up in the same way
Simon Pinchbeck:that's interesting point you're making they're very very interesting point you making there so so we can produce gossip of ourselves Yeah, to lift ourselves profile up. Because how many times you how
Reverend Ben Cooper:many times we do that? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Before you're not yet what's that scowl on your leg? Oh really? It was a birthmark on a fight. We have fun in what do you know what you can stretch your own story another
Simon Pinchbeck:thing that gets me is people call your man or God and are there
Reverend Ben Cooper:my cultures go?
Simon Pinchbeck:Oh man i god
Reverend Ben Cooper:man God, Daddy. I'm not mad. It's like COVID Isn't it interesting language? Don't call me man of God. Yeah. Because I'm so far at the moment you don't know. You do not realize what's going on in my head, my thinking, my attitude. I'm tired and weary. I've reached the end of the road. So don't call me man at God. Just call me a son. Because that's all I have. I'm just a son learning to follow Jesus. You know, when someone you know, that's an interesting thing that some has spoken about the labels we put on people. The only label we should have on one another is your son of the living God or your daughter, the living God saved by Christ, a man of God. Do we realize what that means? You're proud to hang on a minute. Pastor leader? The labels apostolic standing on one end, Apostle, Dr. Reverend Bing, bang wallop. You know, I mean, all the names. The longer the name, the more holy I am. I think I'm going to put above the office door. Pastor, a wretched man, am I done?
Simon Pinchbeck:I'm not worthy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm not worthy. But it's easy. A evangelist is a director jack of all trades. He's an apostle. Oh, my goodness, the titles How many times do we read? Dr. Reverend, apostolic, belly dancing, jumping through hoops preacher of the gospel of the real Jesus Christ, the title, man, I've gone and really realize what that means. That's a gossip in its own.
Simon Pinchbeck:When people call me that I just exactly like you. I just think, please don't. Don't don't. Are you getting set up there? No, you know, if you accept that, that pops you up, doesn't it?
Reverend Ben Cooper:It really does. And naturally, I'm going to be quite open here. I've got lots of struggles at the moment. I've got lots of struggles with just living. It's just life and just life and when people say are gone talk to pastor Ben it feel like again, you don't really want to talk to me. Don't call me got nothing for you. I've actually got nothing for you. Because I'm worse than what you are. I'm actually not as good as what you think I am because of the title, drums a person up and trying to live up to the title. You ain't gonna do it. You ain't gonna do that. Because we're all protocols. It's like yo, yo, in and out. You know, Deuteronomy chapter six, I thank God for that text. Don't forget the Lord thy God. That what what Christ said to Simon Simon, Simon Simon, Satan has asked that I that he can sift you but I've prayed for you. And when you come back, that's where I'm at. When I come back. I'm always coming back.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, we want to know I'm gonna come father thinks it was we don't want to what does he think of it? We don't want to listen to what other people
Reverend Ben Cooper:because I can't live to what people think I am. I can't live up to this. Because always going to, I'm always gonna fall down anyway. When you take the word husband was gonna ask dad, son, friend,
Simon Pinchbeck:certainly. Whoever, sooner or later river, you know, you go to, they're going to not live up to what you the title anticipated. Yeah, yeah. But look at this. You know, I'm going on, going on that line again. And it's it. Man, it really brings it was Psalm 11015 says this, it says whoever secretly slandered his neighbor. Whoever secretly slandered his neighbor listeners, and he says him I will destroy the one who has a hot, hearty look and a proud heart him I will not endure
Reverend Ben Cooper:that was dropped in again, pride. A proud heart.
Simon Pinchbeck:I will not enjoy I will not enjoy destroy. This is what
Reverend Ben Cooper:God is saying. But hang on a minute. The church is telling me God is love. I am the same yesterday, today and forevermore. I won't stand for arrogance and pride. I am a jealous God. Oh my god, a rough. I am a God of love because because I am a father.
Simon Pinchbeck:What is gossip and what is slander? It's lies. It's lies.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You will know the truth and the truth will set you free.
Simon Pinchbeck:You know this is the truth and the truth will set you free, not lies
Reverend Ben Cooper:lies. I believe I believe that we are all operating in circles, that are a lot of false circles. And we are being dictated to by influencers and crowd, and social media and hashtags and straplines. And pastors and leaders and narcissistic controllers, and maybe people in our lives that are very controlling, got to be careful of controlling people as well, because controlling people will have their opinion and their understanding of who you should be. And when they realize that you won't conform to the pattern of what they want. Then it brings issues into relationships into families into the house, into marriages into workplace issues. When you start to stand up for the character that you really are, I tell you, you find out who's for you and against her. And you just because there's blood running through the same vein, don't mean to say they're for you.
Simon Pinchbeck:It doesn't mean it's okay for you. And do you know what I'm what are you what's coming to me there, Ben, when you saying that is that people have been in relationships for years, and yes, suppress them.
Reverend Ben Cooper:It's frightening Simon, it's frightening. It's scary.
Simon Pinchbeck:I've got people in my own family, I won't mention, you know, on this platform, but I've got people in my own family that for years have been suppressed by their partners. And the
Reverend Ben Cooper:thing is, it's one day it will break. And what happens when it breaks, the gossip starts and the truth doesn't really come out. And the reason that the one person has broken down whatever, wandered on gone, whatever way you look, in business, work life, wherever relationships, the slander says, but actually, and the opinion and the gossip starts about the person that has gone, I ain't having this no more, I'm not having it. That's the issue is I'm not having it, I can't be punched down, like I'm being punched down. Because there come a point when was the last punch to be thrown, and the person will be hit so hard. It doesn't break them. It strengthens them to go on out.
Simon Pinchbeck:And I think that's what was happening on a broader scale, a bigger scale with religion, we have the church, we have government, we have everything and people are just going, I haven't, I can see clearly what's going on. I'm just not having this anymore.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that relationships are frayed. Really, church, leadership's are seeing people rising up, because I'm not having this on. On I'm not being suppressed anymore. God has called me, God has chosen me. And so we are living in very powerful times where we are seeing a rise not of arrogance, but of people that have had enough. I've had enough. I'm not being suppressed. I'm not being punched anymore. I've taken it for so long. But then you start when that person goes, I'm out in this arena. The Gossip starts on the person that has left a certain area left a certain circle. Oh, they've left because he's left that business because she left that relationship because they left because he because because when actually, you don't know the truth don't know the truth and the years it's taken and the beatings I've taken now we're not now we understand abuse comes very strongly for verbalization.
Simon Pinchbeck:Do you know something? Do you think? I mean? Do you think that the mental cruelty is worse than sometimes the physical cruelty?
Reverend Ben Cooper:I honestly believe words are more powerful than that punch.
Simon Pinchbeck:And you know, I see it a lot with in the men circles that I operate in and I see a lot. You know, it's one of the biggest struggles with men word set over and when they were younger. Yeah, someone said to that fella, you're not good enough, you'll never achieve anything in life. And that's an if they don't deal with this a punch
Reverend Ben Cooper:is a punch, and then you get a punch from Muslim or you get from family another punch. You get a punch from church, you get another punch from from areas of every walk of life. And suddenly I think what we're seeing is the strain on humanity. And especially as believers, believers have been punched so hard in many layers of their life, are starting to rise up. They're leaving businesses, they're leaving workplace. They're leaving relationships, they're leaving homes, not because they've done anything wrong, but because there's been such a thud I can't take it any more. There comes a point when you've got to say, I'm dusting my I'm dusting the dust off of my feet and I can't stay in this life anymore. Because I've been punched so hard, but then that's when the gossip starts. So the gossip starts when someone that is reached a point where I've got to move on. They're leaving. They left that business high and dry. When I hang on, they left that workplace they just walked Have they walked out? There's a reason why someone walks and someone moves on from a situation.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, it is a huge reason. And, you know, you see what we've got. We have a society that that says a lot about Mental Welfare. Yeah, we say a lot about well being well being all that but we've also got society that when you do step away, yeah. That closes ranks.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's right. Yeah. It closes in. So we have a Joshua and Caleb situation. So when they brought out bad report, that was gossip. Yeah, we can't Yeah, yeah. So spreading through the camp. If a bad word spreads through the camp,
Simon Pinchbeck:we just said it's like a wildfire spread so that the bad word spread like wildfire, but yeah, good word. Yeah. So so you know that that old saying, you know, one bad apple,
Reverend Ben Cooper:oh, one bad apple. one bad apple just destroys. Just the fruit bowl gone, it's gone in the fruit bowl is gone. Don't look at the good fruit. So Joshua, and Caleb come back, when hang on a minute, we've seen the same thing. We've walked the same path. This hour, God is able. And then when a bad word is given from a bad word, which isn't really true. It's the opinion of a person rather than going in faith. They go, do you know what? We aren't going to do it? It's impossible. It filters through the whole grapevine. And then the ones in the back end of it that don't know the front end of it. Go. Joshua and Caleb there, they're off their pig. We can't do it. We can't do it. We can't do it. It's impossible. No way. No way. No way.
Simon Pinchbeck:But Ben, do you think if you're if you're busy doing the Lord's work, if you're really busy doing the Lord's work, I do think that, that you ain't got time to gossip earlier.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But what you'll get is you'll you'll be highlighted to the gossipers.
Simon Pinchbeck:But let's look at this spin. Listen to this one Timothy 513. It says it says, And besides, they learned to be idle. One wondering about from house to house and not only idle, but gossipers and busy busy bodies saying things which they ought not. So
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's nothing worse than an idle.
Simon Pinchbeck:There's an old saying, you know, the devil makes work for idle hands. And it's the true if you're not if you're not busy doing the Lord's work if you're Oh, then you're in trouble. Yeah, I mean,
Reverend Ben Cooper:so the gossip jet. So it opens up the IRENA gossip, jealousy, anger, opinion, judgmental attitude, frustration. So, when you aren't doing the Lord's work, watch out for the souls. Watch out. If you're like, Joseph, God has blessed you. But your family will never understand it. Be careful of family's opinion on you. They will tear you down and they will sell you to anyone.
Simon Pinchbeck:You know, probably this better than me. But But was it Jeremiah was trying to build the wall? Yeah. And he didn't have a sword in one hand. But they all came against him against him, saying what you're doing
Reverend Ben Cooper:what you're doing what you're doing. You're stupid. Same again, look. No, look at know what you're doing, building out the gossip that must have flew around about that, man. Look at that crazy bloke over there. He's building an ark. It ain't gonna rain. Let me tell you brothers and sisters. Rain is about to fall. build yourself an arc is about to rain.
Simon Pinchbeck:This gossip thing it destroys but it destroys personal integrity then it
Reverend Ben Cooper:tears people down as people down and then when the gossip gets back to the person and the person goes. That wasn't it can it can crush a character
Simon Pinchbeck:can crush your character but also been who will trust a gossip? Because if you come to sup person comes to me with gossip, you very know very well, they're going to be concerned about Yeah, we don't yeah.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, load? Oh, yeah. There's a few stores out about an A, do you know, so not quite like, I've I've done that price to load that didn't know I was doing that.
Simon Pinchbeck:So you know, you can't you will never confide in a gossip. You never trust someone who's a gossip, do you? Because the next thing you know, they're gonna be chatting about you. And they
Reverend Ben Cooper:I think what this shows us here is the circle of people you operate is very dangerous if you don't know the characters in the circle. So it means it so as an individual, it talks about being wired, who is forming and who's against me. Who do I share with Who do I pray with? Who do I walk with? comes back to that that New Testament story didn't know we we flew into the podcast a few months debate where would your friends carry you when you're at your worst? And tear the roof off? Get you in a
Simon Pinchbeck:family friends have you got that would do that. I would smash the roof to get you to literally
Reverend Ben Cooper:tear the roof off and get you to Jesus. That is friendship. That is powerful friendship with the highest order. Yeah, well, we were 51 minutes in it's okay. Now I look Come on.
Simon Pinchbeck:I got a process. Let's let's finish with this.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I want to tell you a story about someone.
Simon Pinchbeck:We've got a daughter and we're commanded to love our neighbor, Amy. Yeah. Love. Matthew 22. Yeah, you know, the second greatest commandment Love thy neighbor. You So who's your neighbor? Ben? Who's your neighbor? Or the person next door? Neighbor? I'm gonna find out trouble. I have trouble with that one.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I love your neighbor. Yeah. The person that is with you at this moment in time that is walking with you journeying with you, anyone, any man, it's everyone and everyone and anyone that is in your circle of living.
Simon Pinchbeck:So what did the disciples say? They said, but who is my neighbor? Then they and remember the
Reverend Ben Cooper:disciples coming up with it. We're going on about Jesus, the
Simon Pinchbeck:parable of the Good Samaritan. They all walked in. They all walked by by except for the Samaritan.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, gosh, sorry. So yeah, we pray for you. Don't worry. We pray. I pray for you, brother.
Simon Pinchbeck:For you, bro. Get little pair of and pray.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Social media like you think like,
Simon Pinchbeck:oh, you know, you want my load. Anyway, another another great, another great chat orcas Lord brought out in that it's something I think we should all really be looking at ourselves. And so when I look at, I look at my heart, look at your heart. And when someone comes to you with a bit of a tasty morsel,
Reverend Ben Cooper:just write it down.
Simon Pinchbeck:Just saying no.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Just say no. Just let your yes be yes.
Simon Pinchbeck:And General. It'll be a man or woman of character. Be a man or woman of integrity. Yeah, stop this gossip where it starts. And let's start to build people up. And
Reverend Ben Cooper:he challenged him being a Christian is great, though. And it's great. And it's refreshing. Because it makes you realize that nothing, no one can have anything on your kidney. Because you're not when you know, it's like let the world talk and do what they're gonna do. If you're looking
Simon Pinchbeck:for a challenge, if you're looking for a challenge out there, you know, don't connect down the Amazon
Reverend Ben Cooper:wing walking Don't be Christie and be a Christian and live a live or tell your Christian life. That is a challenge.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's a challenge in it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:You're right some serious money. When Yeah, well, if you can just come out money. Oh bless wherever you are today.
Simon Pinchbeck:Yeah, we love you. We will absolutely love you.
Reverend Ben Cooper:The openness is great. Being open scribes.
Simon Pinchbeck:We straight talked about gossip today. And you know, there'll be a little video coming out when I Yeah, but but we love you. God bless you
Reverend Ben Cooper:and Amen. Wherever you are today, just keeping the Word of God and just keep focused on them. And as the as it says in the scripture, you know Hebrews chapter 12 Verse two, keep your eyes on Jesus. God bless. See you soon in Jesus name, Amen.
Close:Welcome to # Christian Straight Talk, introducing Reverend Ben Cooper, and Simon Pinchbeck. With this week's podcast, our podcasts have now been published and can be purchased in hardback or an an E-book direct from Amazon. You can listen to our podcasts on multiple platforms, including Amazon, Buzzsprout and Spotify.