Good morning and welcome to#Christian Straight Talk wherever you are across this beautiful earth this morning. God is with each and every one of us. We are living in very powerful times you can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, I Heart Radio, you can find us on Alexa and Apple Music and the other one is the bigger one, I think and I think he's got a lot of strength. And that's Amazon music so you can find us all over the place. Welcome to this little world of #Christian Straight Talk. There's a few books bouncing around from the podcast, there's a few things happening. And we have got our brother Simon on the other side of the mics at this moment in time and he bring in bring in a big word and the word is heart's desire. Simon Good morning.
Simon Pinchbeck:Morning, Ben. It's been a week aint it,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's been an hour
Simon Pinchbeck:and it's been tough. It's tough. You know, we spoke about the heart last week and the heart. You know, there's, there's loads on it. So I just thought we'd bring this morning we'd look at the heart's desire but but before we do that, we just want to say to everyone who's listening that we understand that you're fighting for your lives out there. It's it's stuff is happening all over everyone's life. You know, we we say the whichever hour you normally we go, Oh, I'm alright mate. But yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm fine. Everything's alright. I've got my church teeth, and they're all white and happy. So
Simon Pinchbeck:what I've been doing this week is gone. When people are you alright?
Reverend Ben Cooper:no im not
Simon Pinchbeck:fighting for when they've gone. I know what you mean.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But that's freedom. When we speak from our heart, it brings freedom because so often we try and put a cloak over everything, a mask everything. Because we are frightened of putting ourselves across the table of life and people judging us. He's having a breakdown. Now we're not having a breakdown. I'm just admitting that life is tough, and hard and my heart is hungry for God.
Simon Pinchbeck:So here's the deal. You know, Have you ever told a lie? No dive? And if you say no, well, that's a second noise.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Oh, that's interesting, what you're just saying. So when some of the pastor at the door goes, How are you, brother and sister, we're blessed and highly favored and wonderfully and fearfully made. How many in the corridor of the church are telling the leaders and people in the congregations that they are great and wonderful, and their heart is buckled?
Simon Pinchbeck:And so they're telling a lie for what it got in the church?
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, that's really interesting. Yeah,
Simon Pinchbeck:we're, we're lying to ourselves of we're lying to ourselves. We're lying to our
Reverend Ben Cooper:brothers and sisters to the world around us because we're frightened, possibly, of saying, You know what, I've had a bad week this week. I know I'm blessed and highly favored, but I feel I feel bad. I feel a bit buckled.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, the thing is, we're all under it at the moment. And we we've spoken about a little foxes before Ben. Like, come out. Yeah. As you said, the little ankle biters that come at you and rob your piece, you know, so we've got all that going on. And we can't do that Jesus. Seriously, seriously, might we need
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm actually the scripture says commit your ways to the Lord. The hardest thing is to commit your waste to the Lord because when you commit your way to the Lord we need we suddenly realize what Simon is saying is how much we need Jesus. And it's not because we are weak as in lacking crisis because we suddenly realize in the world in which we live that that humanity is tired and weary and lonely and lost, but we put in these this this layer of everything's all right, don't worry, we'll be fine. Yeah, you know, the stiff upper lip or that of a cup of tea, a slice of cake when actually we should be saying to one another, do you know what I feel? I feel not quite right today, but it will be okay. Trying to be upbeat all the time. Is not and is it is impossible to be
Simon Pinchbeck:well, you know, the normal reaction is our you are right, you're right. You're right.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lovely that happy, happy days. But
Simon Pinchbeck:actually now you don't have to tell everyone all your problems, but you just go makes a battle. I'm fighting I'm fighting for my life. And I've done that this week and people come Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Yeah, you don't have to take any further now because people are just so pleased that
Reverend Ben Cooper:things fine how Hanging on to the cliff face. Do you know what? What I think of is in the scripture where it says, I've got the feet, my feet are fitted with the feet as of a deer, where I'm able to hold it on the rock face of life, I'm able to stand. It's a sheer drop, but I'm able to stand because God has got me on the rock face of life. And it's fearful. But in the fear, there is hope in hope there is God. So when we say to one another, yeah, I'm great and blessed and highly favored. God is blessing my life. Oh, hang on a minute. That's not quite true, not because God isn't blessing my life. It's because I am not being real in the skin that I'm in and being real with the people around me and saying, You know what, I'm having a bad day, but I'm alright. I'm just gritty today.
Simon Pinchbeck:I'm having a bad day. Life's tough. But I've got Jesus.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm all right. Because I got Jesus. Yeah. So when you believe and confess, and you'd be truthful and honest, and you speak out, you speak out of your heart, because out of the heart, the overflow of the heart, the mouth speaks. So when I when I'm not truthful of how I am, I'm actually lying.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's a lie. Yeah, totally.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm lying about myself, to the audience in front of me. And I'm lying about how I am in God, I'm blessed and highly favored. Everything is great and wonderful when actually I am blessed and highly favored. I am wonderfully and fearfully made I belong to Jesus. But what I need to say on the back end of that is cool. I'm having a job moment at the moment. Yeah, lives lives Harley treaded
Simon Pinchbeck:in treacle or, or summit sapling with a family or some I'm just
Reverend Ben Cooper:really tired things. Come on. Your brains are wash at the moment. I'm alright. Because Jesus is with me. I am alright.
Simon Pinchbeck:I can't do it. I'm on the floor. But I can't do it. Yeah. Jesus, you know, that's, that's the deal. That's that's where we're at. And that's what it's all about listeners is about the Christian five desperate what the Christian faith is all about. He's just hanging on to Jesus. And following him and being truthful to him and being truthful, to our, our, our, our loving father, being truthful, he wants to hear the truth from us. He knows what we're going through, but he wants to hear the truth from us. You know, it's no good. You know, praying a prayer, you know, thank you, Lord for this. And the other, you know, amen.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Because as a head practice, there's a head paren as a heart prayer, yeah, there's two different layers to our walk with him. There's the head prayer, of praying out what the Church wants us to hear. But inside as we're praying that, and as we're speaking that as we're sharing that with leaders and people within the church, and within our stretches, as a Christian, when we meet Christians, our head is saying stuff, but our heart is actually holding the real me down. Actually, that prayer that my head is praying and my lips are moving isn't exactly our own feeling. So when we talk about lying, is more lying going on, coming out of me, in the fact that I'm not being truthful to how I feel and how my being is. And not because of the lifestyle I'm living. But because I'm not truthful with me, to you,
Simon Pinchbeck:Ben, there's more liars in church than then we realize most people in the church are lying to themselves. Yeah, I remember being in in one church once and asked someone to come up and as you start your day, you know, our started day by by saying a little prayer, then listen to some sermon on the way to work and then before again, to me, it's nonsense. It's nonsense. It's, you know, no one can live sustain sustain that day after day after day. There's always something happening something being thrown some pretty little thing on the other side of the of the, of the tube that you're driving, you run into what something's going on. Yeah, yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:the world is tempting you in every way. Money, looks auto it is business, culture. The culture that we're in at the moment is a very inward focused culture. We've got the change in the leadership across the nation and we're all you got the button being pressed for the winter. You got all this stuff coming at us and and you can see on people's faces, the strain and the stress and we're walking into church can ya know your Jesus revival is here. We ain't gonna never see revival.
Simon Pinchbeck:It's not and the spiritual atmosphere out there really strong strongly as oppressive. You know, God's been taken out of government has been taken out of schools, it's been taken out of everything, and it's being pushed further and further out. Things are afoot, things are moving, things are changing all over and there's a A huge humanistic agenda coming in. And as a Christian, and someone who believes in Jesus Christ, if you're not feeling it, if you're not feeling a little bit of pressure, then really you ain't doing a lot for the kingdom, I've got to say, you know, I've been, maybe it's a bit harsh, but you know, you can, you can sit in your Easy boy chair, watching your, your, your box sets and stuff like that, and, and watching, you know, social media, for your heart's content behind doing a lot for the kingdom lawyer, General. If you're out there on the frontline might, you're getting kicked up the backside, if you're
Reverend Ben Cooper:out on the front line, you are going to feel really tired, you're going to feel exhausted, even if you're not on that front line, as we would put it in the missional church position. If you're just out living Gabby's if you're, if you're not on the front line, but you are in a workplace environment, this is never going to be edited, is it? We don't do it just straight out the barrel of trophy listeners all over the place, that's just say, our minds, and our hearts are corrupt. So we've taken a word and we've done our manipulators the word.
Simon Pinchbeck:Let's go into the script, we begin scripture. So the title is our heart's desire, we, we didn't get
Reverend Ben Cooper:sidetracked. But it's just like, we didn't know. But we're talking about life talking about life and life is is about being truthful to Christ, and truthful to the audience around you. Because the way my heart feels, is not always the way that I speak it. So I'm not being truthful. And that that is very, that can be quite a harsh thing to say about our do I feel about family, my wife, my, my children, child, so
Simon Pinchbeck:going down,
Reverend Ben Cooper:Father, forgive me for I've sinned and fallen short of your glory, every child across the globe, you know, I mean, it's like, so I'm not being truthful of how I feel. So when someone, when I speak to people, I need to be completely honest. Now. We aren't treading on dangerous ground, because then we come up to people go, Well, I've got an opinion, opinion is not from the heart. Opinions are dangerous.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, the thing is, Ben, what, what happens is we to protect ourselves, because we don't want to expose ourselves, we don't want to seem vulnerable. And we don't want to portray an image that so we'd say I'm alright. That's what we am alright. But to be honest with you, if you just say no, it's about you don't have to tell people what the battle is. You just have to say, I'm going for a battle. But I'm hanging out with Jesus. And it's a great way of bringing Jesus into the conversation. Yeah. So the heart's desire. Well, a great scripture is Psalm 30 744, and five really been so it says, delight yourself also in the Lord, and He shall give you the desires of your heart. So let's have a look at that, you know, and there's yourself. So there's that old phrase, Ben, be careful what you wish for.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Be careful what you wish for. So this
Simon Pinchbeck:scripture has been used, overused, misused, just worn out by people who go want money. want money they want why funds or that sort of stuff? Yeah. And that's the desire of my heart. So the Lord says, you give it to me, but actually, actually, what it says is, delight yourself in the Lord.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So the first thing is the closer I get to him, and I push into the Word and as I seek him, and I asked God, Lord stripped me back. I want to Lord, walk closer with you, Lord, I want to journey Lord, as a believer, Lord, I want to be more honest about my feelings about my lifestyle, about my thoughts alone, I want to be more open, Lord, I want to just be more thinking and focused on you, Lord, the more that we delight ourselves in the Scripture in the Lord. And where it says, the manipulation of that part, the preachers go, that he will the more I want him, the more he will give me a fleshly lifestyle. No, no, it's not. That's it's the opposite. It's the opposite my heart the Scripture says, out of the heart, they overflowed. The mouth speaks you know, it speaks so whatever I feed myself, I will become so if I delight myself in the Lord, I will become more Christ like I will be more of a believer that I should be and my heart will be more for him.
Simon Pinchbeck:I think it's very important what you said that the more you feed
Reverend Ben Cooper:me feed me, and that's and that's not some sexual is they feed me because I is happy chasing well, going down the wrong route today, Lord, forgive me
Simon Pinchbeck:is a deal. So we feed our bodies, don't we? Yeah. Three times a day some of us have more. Yeah. And so we feed our, our emotions with feelings and stuff like that, but our spirit, we need to fill with a word of God. Yeah. And so line. And so where it says, delight yourself in the Lord, what delights the Lord, what delights the Lord, you know, there's a deal faith was faith. trust His son, Jesus delights him, the word of his own word delights him. So we're getting into the word, we're getting to know him. So you know, it says in Jeremiah 2913, you will find me if you seek me with all your heart. So he didn't say with all your head, it didn't say with all your body, he didn't say with all your mind, it says with your heart, because the heart is core and key. And the heart lives on. The heart lives on the spirit lives on.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's the inner the inner depth of a human being not the thoughts, not the mindset, not the educational side of me. Not my thinking, not my upbringing, but the real enemy that probably not many people or if anyone actually real no really knows. Me. That's That's it. So that's where, so I hide me most of my
Simon Pinchbeck:life. So your enemy can be your enemy.
Reverend Ben Cooper:In a band, a lot of play, I love that Brother, you are on a band today. So that enemy I don't show to a lot of people. Why because I feel that I could be vulnerable. If I start talking to people how my heart is, they might look at me different when, when the world in the humanistic and the Darwinistic way. And it is all about self. Well not in self as emotions and feelings. Because humanism has no heart. You it's a very cold rock face. And when you look at that culture, and when you look at that, it doesn't it doesn't want anything to do with faith. Faith is is an emotion. Faith is a being faith, faith is so much more.
Simon Pinchbeck:Let me ask you this question. Do you think that a lot of people out there and a lot of people listen to this podcast? Do you? Do they know themselves
Reverend Ben Cooper:know? Well, yes, they probably know themselves to a degree, but they hide themselves and they become someone that the crowd wants him to be and the family want them to be other than who does Jesus God want me to be
Simon Pinchbeck:so. So the enemy is winning on this on this particular. So you can be in church,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you can have a great business, you can have a lovely family, you can have all that sort of stuff, the inside, you know the real you. You can
Simon Pinchbeck:be worshipping in church, you can be saying the prayers, you can be praying for people, you can be doing that. But the enemy's going, I know you never let them know who they are in Christ. Because if they know who they are in Christ, they become a danger, then you're dangerous if you know you're in Christ.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But when you become and when you start to speak very open and very honest. And that that will be saying something like I'm in the battlefield at the moment, people will automatically want to poke you and point you to a counselor, or to the spiritual director and try and shape you up and start getting you to wave the flag of great, wonderful. No, because when you follow Jesus, what does it do? It strips back the outside of me. And it alerts me to me, that sometimes my family and my workplace in my life that I live in, can't really because I put a veneer over me. And suddenly the real me that Jesus is calling me to be is very different to what their opinion of me is. So when you talk about the heart of a person who really knows the heart of their husband and wife, their brother, their sister, their dad, their mom,
Simon Pinchbeck:I know many, many men who have come to faith in Jesus Christ and their family can't
Reverend Ben Cooper:cope with it can't
Simon Pinchbeck:cope with it.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, they are being the person that they
Simon Pinchbeck:there was when I was a gangster or you know, a drug dealer or whatever. But when they become a follower of Jesus, they just can't, can't get their head around it, you know?
Reverend Ben Cooper:And opinions are dangerous and they when you've got someone or you got people around you that are very opinionated. Their opinion is how you should be and how you should answer and how you should live your life. When you live in the pattern that someone else wants you to live. You become very depressed in yourself and you get lost in you itself, you're not living the true heart, you
Simon Pinchbeck:do not live in that. So you're not being, here's the deal, but you're not being the person that our Heavenly Father made you to be. Because you're living a different life, you're being shaped by the world and shaped by the world and not by him. And when that starts, delight yourself in the Lord which means, which means getting to know the Lord. Now, so so the other side of a coin is, as you quite rightly said, Ben, we live in a world which is very self focused, this more eyes going on in that I will do the I am dues I Am that I Am the other. Now, if we look at that, let's take that. And let's get into the, into the Scripture, listen to this. But if you go into Isaiah, whoever, if anyone ever tells you the Old Testament is,
Reverend Ben Cooper:is gone, then you know, they're probably not a believer,
Simon Pinchbeck:not a believer, and they don't understand the Bible. We get into Isaiah 14. Now listen to this look, Isaiah 1412, it says this, it says, how you are fallen from heaven, oh, Lucifer, son of the morning, how you are cut down to ground. You who weaken the nation's for you have said in your heart, you have said in your heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God, I will also sit on the mount of the congregation, on the fire besides the north, I will ascend above the heights. Now, I will be like the most i You shall be brought down to shell to the lowest depths of the pit. See what it says then you
Reverend Ben Cooper:elevate it, and you try and put it above the King of kings and the Lord of lords. You are in a dangerous place. This is loads of fun this
Simon Pinchbeck:just saying this. I mean, this is saying about me talking about his heart
Reverend Ben Cooper:when he's got a heart. The enemies got an agenda. Where does the agendas come from? From the innermost being but Delight yourself in the Lord, delight yourself in the Lord? That is the most safest place anyone can ever be? What does it mean? Get yourself in the word get yourself in the word, the word is the way that is the Lord. That is God that is that is the way forward, the light yourself in the Lord, delight yourself in Him and He will give you the desires of your heart.
Simon Pinchbeck:It means, you know, Jesus said it. Jesus said it on a mount denier Matthew 633 He says Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything else will fall into place. Which is pretty much what this what this scripture? Yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, definitely. Yeah. You've got to you got to keep in Jesus, you got to keep the cost. You know there is a price. There is a cost and sometimes that cost you have to walk through and weigh everything up and think to yourself, you know what? This is it. This is either live or die. This is Eva, the moment Eva, I've got to die to sell for I live in a world that there's choices all the time. And
Simon Pinchbeck:the Bible really hammers it home. The heart issue up and down it it really does because you know, Matthew 60, Jesus really went on about the heart, the desire of the heart, he said, he said in Matthew 621 Where your treasure is, so we be so
Reverend Ben Cooper:have a look on treasure what my eyes want my what my ears hear what the world is sending through media through activities of the world, you know, the world is offering me the world.
Simon Pinchbeck:John? Ben one John 216, right? That the desires of the flesh, the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, pride line, the pride of life, all those stuff is all wrapped up, isn't it? So yeah. That the lust of the flesh is the feelings what are we
Reverend Ben Cooper:learned what I want what I think what I'm what I need what my my flesh is craving. But Christ just looks beyond and looks goes deeper. You know, in the psalmist writes in Psalm 139, verse 23, search me God, and know my heart. test me and know my anxious thoughts.
Simon Pinchbeck:Then I've got to say to listeners out there, if you listen to this, are you brave enough to say no, I'm leaving? Are you brave enough to sign out? Are you leaving the building? Because that is test your heart? And I would say I would implore the listeners and then to get to know your own heart. Yeah. Where's it taking you and you will never beat the flesh in the flesh. How many times have we said that on this podcast, but it is the truth. You will never beat the flesh in the face. The flesh is so powerful you cannot beat it and you need Jesus YOU NEED the Holy Spirit to strengthen you To turn your back on that stuff, because where your treasure is, so is your heart. And, you know, we're talking about what are you putting before God? What is in your heart before God? That's what we're talking about.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So when the psalmist writes, do I do I have the boldness in Christ? To actually say what it says in Psalm 139? Verse 23, search me? Do I really know what that means? What is that going to be? Search me? Go deep, beyond depth beyond human understanding searched me who's going to Who am I asking? Who am I inviting in to search me, God, God is going to go so deep. He's going to go beyond the DNA, he's going to open up the envelope of the debt may
Simon Pinchbeck:shine a light in the darkest corners,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and it is going to say God, twitchy. Search me,
Simon Pinchbeck:God, he's gonna pull out all that pride, he's gonna put his kids a painful experience. But it's the only way we can get closer and know
Reverend Ben Cooper:my heart. So there's that. So you're, you're inviting God in, you're asking God because you're saying search me. So there is an invitation to God. and know my heart. Well, actually, he knows that. He sees that because he created that. But when you actually pray that prayer in Psalm 139, that is a life changing prayer that will open the eyes of the heart that will close the eyes of the of the eyes in your your head that will close the the natural eyes and it will open the eyes of your heart, it will open the window to your soul, even though God has got that but it will, it will take you to a place that is almost a place of despair, a place of endurance not because that what the enemy has thrown at you is because of what God is stirring and extracting, and removing and also highlighting, search me God and know my heart. Test me. Hang on a minute. Do I really want God to test me?
Simon Pinchbeck:And that's a question you've got to ask yourself isn't can I cope? Can you test would that be?
Reverend Ben Cooper:What is the test? What test would good God give me search me? God? Who is God, the Creator of heaven and earth? And without going into the theological look at that, when I understand who God is? Do I really know what I'm actually asking? The Psalmist?
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, you, you know, you could be asking for the Lord to put something in your life to to make you turn back from your fleshly ways. You know, it says in Proverbs six does proverbs 16 is a great Proverbs. Proverbs 69 says, A man's heart plans his way. But the Lord directs his steps. Oh, so your heart is planning? You know, it's good to have plans maybe for the future but not too far in advance. You know, we
Reverend Ben Cooper:because they are that they're not they're gonna override God because Jeremiah says, you know, very clearly it mentions that in Jeremiah 29. And it ran about verse 11, and 12 and 13. It talks about one of the plans I have you declares the Lord. If if you follow me with all your
Simon Pinchbeck:if you do, yeah, I mean probably extend again, when he says, Proverbs 16. One, two and three, it says the preparations of the heart belong to man. But the answer of the tongue is from the Lord. All the ways of a man of pure in his own eyes, oh, but the Lord ways the spirits. He way met your work. So Lord, and your thoughts will be established. So so your ways it looks when you think
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is like this is too much. It's tough, isn't it? Because a tough fit agenda that anyone the toughest plan that anyone could ever have on their life is to follow the word of God. And to say, Lord stripped me back, stripped me back to the bone. Remove everything from within me and around me that is not our view, and has no purpose. Do I really know what I'm really praying? Search me God and know my heart test me and know my anxious thoughts. And then he says in verse 24, of Psalm 139. See if there is any offense if or offense might offensive way in me and lead me in the way of everlasting? Is there any offense in me? Is there anything that's offensive? Is there anything you mean, that's corrupted? Is there anything in me that is lust for anything in me that is bad? Is there anything in me? That is not have you helped me Lord? Well,
Simon Pinchbeck:you know, Jeremiah 17 Nine tells us he says, the heart is more deceitful than all else and he's desperately sick who can understand it? So, so you can get on My old Amazon shopping you know, Oh, fancy lamp. Oh, yeah. Hey, click click Yeah, exactly. It's on your doorstep the next day.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Exactly. So being a believer, being a believer is the toughest enduring test. Because the Scripture says, test me. So every day, every moment, I will be being tested because my heart is my heart for the world is that is my heart for myself is the heart for God. David, the Scripture said, David had a heart for God. But his intentions in many areas of his life was for his own gain.
Simon Pinchbeck:He also said that he was a sinner when he was born in a that's the David said that David is one so so you know, people that are even worse, don't, don't get it confused. We are fleshly human beings, we are human. And God knows that God created
Reverend Ben Cooper:us. We are blessed and highly favored. We we are children of the living God, but the skin that we are walking in, that we when we look at the church at this moment, when we look at political arenas, when we look at the finance markets, when we look at the world, one world government, when we look at the plans of the world, when we look at the EU, when we look at everything that's happening, no wonder there is so much anxiousness and fears and worries and doubts. I've got to be me, but to be me, it will upset a few people because people want to control me. People want to make me into who they think they want me to be. So you just got to find out who you are in Christ Jesus. And when you're in the Garden of Gethsemane, and you find out who you are, you will really find that who's for you and against you. There are some shockers in the journey of life when you realize who you are in Christ. And you start praying Lord, search me test me and try me know my heart stripped me back to the bare bone Lord, because suddenly that the Christ in you is shaping you. But the outside the onlookers don't like what they say.
Simon Pinchbeck:No, because you're not conforming to the world or you're not conforming to the pattern. They are you know, we are wonderfully and fearfully might but we do mess up then we've been we mess up every single day. That's why I found we need the grace and the love and the forgiveness.
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm a sinner. I make mistakes I say things or do things that not biblical I say things that are not godly I do things that are not godly, but you know
Simon Pinchbeck:there is massive hope for as Ben though, you know, isn't that what hope is enormous? Yeah, and we
Reverend Ben Cooper:always hope but but but actually saying I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I offended that person. I'm sorry that I've acted I'm sorry that I've done Lord, I'm sorry that I've said I'm sorry Lord, I don't want to be like this law. My heart is hurting. Lord helped me to to be more of a loving person helped me to be more of an understanding person helped me to think more before my Trappy mouth moves helped me Dear God, not to not to be anxious helped me not to be controlled. You know what? When you really start to just assert yourself is a strain.
Simon Pinchbeck:That's the deal. You know, when you need Wheaton, very few people know who they are. Very few people know who they are. In Christ. A very poof people know, you've got to know who you are your weaknesses. You've got to know your strengths. You've got to know exactly who you are. So when it says the heart's desire, what is your heart's desire? Where's the flesh water pull you where wherever you got to stand firm,
Reverend Ben Cooper:this is the deep Oh nugget, the day this is this is really stretching and when you when you look at, am I acting? Am I acting? Am I an actor rather than being the real me? Am I
Simon Pinchbeck:been a lot of cases? The deal is we put overlays and they put on these masks, don't we? And we can if we start on this route of Search me, Lord, you know, then we start to peel back the mass circuit like an onion. So you're peeling back the rings. And every time you're getting closer to the center, but it's not easy, and it hurts you know? The word will support us that
Reverend Ben Cooper:the word will clean us, support us, wash us, keep us to stand strong. The word the word will search us the scripture alone, which is God. So as you read it, it's it starts to search it searches
Simon Pinchbeck:strengtheners and, you know, Hebrews 13 Five says let your conduct be without covetousness be content with such things as you have For him, so said, I will never leave you or forsake you. So we may boldly say, The Lord is my helper, I will not fear What can man do to me? Praise the Lord. So you've got that strength there knowing that with Jesus, what
Reverend Ben Cooper:commando to what Commando?
Simon Pinchbeck:Welcome any, you know, there's there's nothing that you could do because you've got a strength in, in Jesus and yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:you have yeah and I think the the issue as well is is that when you start really opening up and talking about yourself, I think because of the way the world is, is at this moment. It's like it's almost wanting to push on, we've got this big thing that's been pressing for so long about mental health, and we got wellbeing and all that and all, all you're depressed and you're broken. And I think what the church world is frightened of is being so open, that it can be be labeled as I'm having a breakdown, I'm not having a breakdown, I'm actually being searched by God and God, through the Word and through his presence, and through His unconditional love is searching me and showing me the person that you really, really loves and the person that you really created. So my lips are speaking, and living a life that is that is meaningless. That's why we have so many people that are unhappy, unhealthy, tired and weary, because we're not really living out as as we want to live, because the environment is trying to dictate to us there's manipulative areas.
Simon Pinchbeck:So what you're saying then really is we've got we have a vast number of people who are really not happy in their own skin, because because they're not being the man or a woman that God made them to be.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's correct. But then I have to ask myself, Who am I meant to be? I will never know who I'm meant to be until I start reading the scripture. Yes, the Scripture script is the key to everything. And it's not because I might be having a breakdown. Breakdown doesn't exist in the Word of God breakdown in the Word of God you could look at is that when God stripped everything back, but it's not a breakdown, it's not a I'm not having a breakdown, I'm not having a mental health issue. I'm not having a cognitive process here. What I'm having is a spiritual encounter with the living God. And when you have your heart wide open, you know, you suddenly start to get stronger, but to realize your strengths, you got to be brought to a place of a garden of Gethsemane experience. Also, when you say God, you are the vinedresser strip away from me.
Simon Pinchbeck:So that's a real tough prayer to, to say it and you know, look, but but the Bible
Reverend Ben Cooper:backs the Bible, the Bible, the Bible,
Simon Pinchbeck:the Bible backs up everything that we've been saying, and it wants to bring us to the Lord wants to prove his word wants to bring us to a place look at this is beautiful. This been Psalm 51, nine and 10 says, hide your face from my sins, oh lot out all my iniquities. He says, Create in me a clean heart, O God, and renew a steadfast spirit in me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Thank you, Father, thank You, Holy Spirit, oh,
Simon Pinchbeck:man, Arab, you beautiful, you know, a clean heart, a good heart in me. But
Reverend Ben Cooper:you've got to come to a place of not brokenness, as in the world sees it but as a place of surrender, a place of obedience, a place of saying, Lord, I belong to you.
Simon Pinchbeck:Well, if Jesus can say that prayer, not my will, but Your will be done. Like we can say it so can we
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, yeah, Jesus, the Word says in John 15, verse one, I am the true vine. And my Father is the gardener. And he is stripping back to go through a strip back is a painful experience of having stuff on the outside taken off the peeling back of the onion, the peeling back of life, the stripping back of me, the outside me, but the inside me really wants to live but the outside environment is trying to create a false vessel. That's why it's important to be on the potter's wheel in the Masters hands because the master will shape will shape you into the vessel that you need to be or I need to be and that vessel might not look sweet to others that God wants you to be because
Simon Pinchbeck:if you're not conforming to the world, which is what the world wants you to be, it wants you to it wants to drive you down a certain path it wants you to to be part of that. The enemy wants you to be part of that. Covetousness they wants you to be part of the world but when we make a decision for Jesus Christ when we accept Jesus Christ into our hearts and That's the big one into our hearts, then we are no longer in the world, we are of the world, but not we're in the world been over a world. That's right. So we are a citizen of the kingdom. And all the father wants to do is to bring us to that point where we get closer to him and and as we get closer to him, is by giving bits of the world back to Jesus, just taking bits in a world give it back to him. And, and we're on a daily basis, we need to examine our
Reverend Ben Cooper:and that takes some drafts, that takes some strength, John 15. Let me let me read this verse one through this, this will, this will really highlight what Simon is saying, I am the true vine. My father is a gardener, he cuts off every branch in me, not on the outside, but in every branch in me that bears no fruit. While every branch that bears fruit, he prunes, so that it will bear more fruit you have already clean because of the word that I've spoken to you remain in me and I also will remain in you no branch can bear any fruit by itself. I can't do it by myself. It must remain in the vine, neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me, I am the vine you are the branches if you remain in me, and I knew you will bear much fruit apart from me you can do nothing. If you do not remain in me You are like the branch that is thrown away and withers, such branches are picked up thrown into the fire and burned. But if you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. This is to My Father's glory, that you bear much fruit showing yourselves to be my disciples. Goodness gracious. So daily thing they said, really
Simon Pinchbeck:what jumps out. I mean, that's such a such a powerful
Reverend Ben Cooper:path. If you remain
Simon Pinchbeck:on the vine, you're grafted into the vial, you can do nothing apart from me.
Reverend Ben Cooper:But the Pronin. And the stripping away from within, is in Ultimate, we look at the vines and we see it all grown on the outside. But actually God is saying what you got grown on the inside, needs to be stripped out.
Simon Pinchbeck:But he's also saying you can't strip it out. You can't
Reverend Ben Cooper:reminding me I always strip it out. So Christianity is a journey of stripped back hope, faith, love, eternal word of God. And just being just be you just be that character, it comes back to being the character that God created. Because if if we look at the character of a person, what is the character of a person, the character is coming from the heart? Oh, yeah. And a lot of people are trying to hide their true character because they're frightened of people around them, letting them see the real me. But Christ created the real me and I've got to be me. And sometimes it takes how much to be you in the environment that you're living in, because the world has tried to prune you to the vine that it wants you to be.
Simon Pinchbeck:I get it, I followed exactly what you said. And I stuck to what you said and you're completely right. The world tries to and the church tries to push you into
Reverend Ben Cooper:the organization the the big brother that
Simon Pinchbeck:tries to put you into into a box that you're that you will never meant to be fitted into. Because God gave you a character. Yeah. And that character he wants to use for His purpose, His kingdom. But that character maybe doesn't fit in to what Hannah organization wants you to do wants you to be because it needs cat people with different characters to attract other men, other people to the kingdom. Yeah. I mean, there were people that me and you know, it's very obvious to people that may and you can speak to that other people can't speak to. Exactly and there's people that we can't speak to that other people can't relate to. So don't try and fit in
Reverend Ben Cooper:now. Because if you fit in you become what Christ talks about the crowd and he pulls disciples out of the crowd. If I stay in the crowd and and stay in the system and stay in the religious box, I become just lost, not lost so much in the crowd but actually lost in myself because I don't know who I am. So how many of us have sat in massive meetings, an enormous revival stuff and great under preachers and teachers and sat there, and everyone around you is getting Jesus, but are not. But I pretend to get Jesus What I need to understand his Alma Thomas, I need to see him for myself. I need this person experience. It's alright for you lot in the crowd on the outside. You're You're telling me what you've seen and what you've had. But don't tell me any more. Unless I see, I will not believe that is a person that I want to have a conversation with. I got to see Jesus. Because what my eyes are seeing are not what you're seeing what you're feeling is not what I'm feeling. So I need this personal experience with this personal Savior. I cannot experience it in the crowd because that becomes a corporate move of manipulation from the front, I need to be in my own environment and have a personal encounter with Jesus.
Simon Pinchbeck:I mean, the Lord's given you them words today, very powerfully. And that's you're exactly right, Ben, you know, I'm not sort of agreeing with you for the sake of agreeing. But you what you said here is exactly right. Because that's what being a Christian is having a personal relationship with Jesus Christ of the crowd, and you're aware of salmon swimming up where a salmon swimming against the tide going, Whoa, we're on the narrow road and the wide Robbie's leaving today. We we have we are and what I've learned is that we our own characters,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. And just be you just because who did Christ die for but just be you in Christ He died for you for you as you are not the Attar you but the very depth of you. Because when he now did to the cross, He died for the interview the outside you might be very worldly, but he died for the for your heart. He set you for a you know, the transgressions, the worries, the fears, the the bleakness, everything was now to the cross, the interview was now to the cross. So he knows that character
Simon Pinchbeck:is set you free to be that man or woman that he created that he created.
Reverend Ben Cooper:People are frightened of the word character, and a world because the church doesn't like characters. The church likes robotic religious people that will put their hand in the pocket will dance at a certain time will shatter certain time. But when you look at the designs only
Simon Pinchbeck:once you once you say don't be transformed,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah, that don't know. He says, Don't conform to that conform to be Don't be conformed to the pattern of the world, but have your mind transformed, be transformed. If you look at the disciples, they was not robotic, they was not like each other. They was very individual there was very different. They was unique. They was they was they was who they was. So when you look at them characters, they didn't fall into the pattern of a Pentecostal. They didn't fall into a pattern of a Catholic or a church of England or they wasn't box, they was just them. It was just John, it was Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. It was Nathaniel, it was it was it was all of them. They was just who God called them to be so. But we want to share if you're listening,
Simon Pinchbeck:if you're listen to this out there, and you're somewhere where you really don't feel that you fit in. And don't think it's don't think it's everyone else's right and you're wrong. No, it's not right for you check your environment, it's not right for you. If you're following Jesus Christ, if you have Jesus Christ, in your heart, man is a time even before I was a Christian, I would stand in a crowd, you know, doing certain things, but not feel really part of that crowd. But people would look to me to do certain things. But I'd feel that was not
Reverend Ben Cooper:I'm missing. I'm missing. I'm missing saying everyone around me, everyone else is getting this vibe, this adrenaline rush because that's what it is.
Simon Pinchbeck:So if you're you may be, even if you're in a church environment, and you, you don't feel that if this is not this environment isn't strange is not really fun for me, I don't feel like I fit in here, then we need to come back to this heart thing, and have a look at arts or arts with the Lord, if also with Jesus, then there may be you're in the wrong place.
Reverend Ben Cooper:And I think we've got to be very careful of religion and church and how we look at that. And I know we talk a lot about that. And I've got a lot of stuff that God is dealing with me regarding the church. God deals with us as an individual, not as a corporate entity. He deals with us as an individual. He died for us as an individual.
Simon Pinchbeck:You're you're you're bringing something Ben that's that's really expose on a lot of things and that and that is true. He's if you're if you've accepted Jesus Christ into your heart Then you hasn't, God hasn't done that in a corporate way. He hasn't seen you haven't been in a
Reverend Ben Cooper:position where he lost in 100 People lost in that all marching.
Simon Pinchbeck:No, he looks at you individually, and leads you on a path individually to Him to His Son, Jesus Christ. And I'm always amazed at what, what the Father will do. For one person,
Reverend Ben Cooper:for one person, save Thomas, one person. Look at Thomas again. The crowd was talking about what they had, what they had what we have experience, but
Simon Pinchbeck:look what he says, Look what Jesus says, you know, if you if you lose a sheep, if you lose a coin, I'll stop. For one, I was looking for that one called one. And I'll search for that one coin,
Reverend Ben Cooper:and the great transformation of a lot of disciples when it's when they was having a one to one with Christ, a one to one not with their spiritual director, not with the pastors, not with the leaders, not with a group, not in a prayer meeting. Not all this not all that sort of stuff. So does church actually look like the New Testament church? Because everything and where everyone had issues God, Christ dealt with it on a one to one, one to one, face to face, face to face. Thomas is the classic. Jesus came back for him because Thomas was tired of the audience of shout in embarking of what they had, and what he didn't have. Christ speaks individually. And so often because we're in a crowd, it is because it is a corporate environment. Yes, there is a body movement. Yes, I understand what you might be thinking, but you are an individual. Christ knows your character. God loves you, because he sent me something for you. Who soever it speaks as an individual, Whosoever shall believe in me, an individual,
Simon Pinchbeck:this. This is what amazes me. Then it just amazes me every day that the out of the billions of people in the world is one on one. Jesus came to me, Jesus came to you, Jason, Jesus came to you every 60 years. To you, to you not, he didn't say come to a church and be saved with 100 other people know that. He says, I'll meet you where you are. And then I'd like you to come. That's right. It no likely to come and search.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, exactly. Right, Simon. And when you look at the Scriptures, the scriptures, when they deal with an individual, they speak very clearly, let's dealing with an individual, if you take the what we just looked in the Gospel of John about, he says, I will, I will strip everything away from within you. You and me is a new individual.
Simon Pinchbeck:Individual is individual. It's not a corporate relationship. You don't have a relationship. You have a relationship. In by bygone a church, your relationship is formed. Yeah. inside of you with Jesus. Let the words in my mouth or meditation in my heart be acceptable in Your sight, our Lord, my strength and my Redeemer.
Reverend Ben Cooper:That's amazing. So when I go to church on a Sunday, I should be meeting with Jesus, not with the corporate entity that is over the door.