Reverend Ben Cooper:

God bless you. And good morning. Good afternoon, wherever you are today. Thank you so much for joining us here at # Christian straight talk. You're joining Simon and myself, as we gather on the other side of the mics on the other side of the lens. Wherever you are today, this is the day that the Lord has made we shall rejoice and be glad got a really deep and heavy word today. It's a strong word Simon,

Simon Pinchbeck:

is a strong word. And you know what Bennett said? It's a word that you don't preach. Now, I don't think you were

Reverend Ben Cooper:

gonna say the word.

Simon Pinchbeck:

But let me ask you this question in bed. You know, if that cup of coffee that you got on a table, if that was full of poison, and you're going to drink it, you want me to stop you want you? Without

Reverend Ben Cooper:

any doubt, you have to stop me from going to a place that's hot and fiery.

Simon Pinchbeck:

near me, there's a junction where there's been a lot of accidents. And there's lots of warning signs Ben to say slow down. Be where they will not enter. Do not Yeah, exactly. Do not engage. So this word. So we believe that there's a heaven that way.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

And we believe there's a hell. When was the last time any one of you listeners including myself, and was having a conversation earlier, I cannot remember when I heard a message that was just even brought the word in once I'm actually racking my brains to think when I've the only person I could probably draw to some form of preaching on that would be good ol Billy Graham

Simon Pinchbeck:

Bell, he spoke on it. And he didn't want to speak on it. And he but he said I have to speak on it. Because it's a reality. You know, Jesus spoke more about hell than, than any anywhere else in the Scripture. Do you know, because you need to know what you've been saved from, then you need to know. We don't want to tell people about hell because now we're going to lambaste him. And all that sort of, we want to tell people about zoning so that they can hear, they can see what the father has done to save them from.

Unknown:

So we've got it. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So we've got the power of salvation. We've got the power of God calling I've got the power of predestination. And we got, we push, we don't actually, even in the church in the West, we don't really push salvation, don't we? Rarely. So it seems to be more self promoting EAGERs

Simon Pinchbeck:

Yeah, it's very self centered, if when, if so even the

Reverend Ben Cooper:

gospel. So if you look at the preaching of the Gospel within the UK, it's very few and far between, isn't it when you get a so called point about traditional gospel message, if the gospel was preached, you have to talk about hell didn't you? Because it's like the tears, the weight and the Terek goes together. Well,

Simon Pinchbeck:

that's a scripture we can look at later. But the Bible tells us there is a heaven and there is a hell yeah. And whenever hosting the Amish in a big Baptist Church once in South End, and I throw out a gospel challenge and and at the end of it, a guy came over to me saying, we ain't heard a gospel challenge in here for years. God,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

there you go. So that so when you give the gospel, not only are you talking about salvation, what am I safe from? I'm saved from sin. I'm saved from hell, because that's what salvation that's what was saved from me. Because you're not going to be saved from nothing else is it? No, Salvation means to be saved. Redemption means to be bought back. But where have I been brought back from we might talk about sin, but where would sin take me?

Simon Pinchbeck:

Then we got to tell the listeners what we understand how to be really and do you know it wasn't made for us? Was it it was made for the dissenting angels on it? And Lucifer, so, so they cast him into, into hell. And, you know, what Hill really is, is a separation from God and complete separation for for eternity.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

That's a big, there's no chance to understand eternity means eternity.

Simon Pinchbeck:

Eternity means forever. You can you can't even think about that. Can

Reverend Ben Cooper:

the human mind naturally understand that eternity and forever means forever? I don't I actually can't grow. ask that the enormity of that alone. Now think that I'm going to be in heaven for eternity. Or I could be in hell for eternity,

Simon Pinchbeck:

which is a complete separation from a complete torture.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

The Bible makes it very clear it's a fiery furnace.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And do you think God wants you to be there? No, he doesn't want you to be there. That's why He gave us a rescue package in His Son, Jesus Christ. You know, obviously,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

I mean, a Power Word and

Simon Pinchbeck:

Word issues, but there's some great scriptures which, which really sort of explain, explain it all to Chris, to be honest with you for years, it's been a locker. Not not, I would say a swear word, but it's been a curse word. And it's been used. Really flippantly.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Yeah. And you go, Oh, I'm worried I'm gonna live in hell. I am worried about that you every time. I've heard lots of people actually say yeah, I'm not going to heaven, I'm gonna go to hell. If I really knew what it was no human being would ever say it would ever really want to, because I don't think we actually understand what it is because it's taken flippantly for too long. When the Bible says it's a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth. It's a fiery furnace, a furnace job where you never die. You're continually Well,

Simon Pinchbeck:

the Scripture tells us that it's the worm that keeps going with a clock Come on, we'll come on out of school. One scripture I want to Scripture, but the Bible is open our

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Bibles for free five Bibles on the table today. Wow. And they're all signed by you.

Simon Pinchbeck:

Well, if we look at if we go into scripture, if you're going to Bible to the Gospel of Luke, and it stopped, there's a bit of a long passage, but we'll read through it and break it down try to but it's starting at Luke 16. And verse 19, is called the rich man and Lazarus, right. Okay. So it says there is there was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and finally and fed sumptuously every day. But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sauce, he was laid at the gate, desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, the dogs came and licked his sores. So it was at the beggar died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. So he went to heaven. Right? Go went to the rich man also died and was buried, and being in torments, in Hades. Hades is yet is hell. He lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham are far off and Lazarus in his bosom. And it says, Then he cried and said, Father, Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and call my tongue for I am tormented in this flame.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

He got that word again. Tormented furnace.

Simon Pinchbeck:

Yeah. But Abraham said, Son, remember that in your lifetime, you received your good things, and likewise, Lazarus evil things. But now he is comforted. And you are tormented. And besides this, listen this. Besides this is what Jesus say. And besides all this between us, and you, there is a great goal fixed,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

this is fixed, fixed, you can't cross it, you're not going to come

Simon Pinchbeck:

back, you're not going to come back. So that those who want to pass from here to you cannot know come those paths from there to us. So

Reverend Ben Cooper:

there's a we can't go. And they can't come. Yeah, so isn't that one, one area that that God Christ, there's a line is done. It's done. It's done. There's no way back or you can't, you can't go come from Hades. You can't come there's no way. No way back into heaven. And there's no way from heaven from from the kingdom into hell once or once you're there, once you're there,

Simon Pinchbeck:

but to love you, I mean, you notice when you do a lot of work in hospice, don't you and so, so the barber is working all the time until your very last breath to bring you into heaven, heaven. And you sit down you have been you see that I so while you're on this while you were on this earth, there's and while we're still breathing, there's always that opportunity to embrace the Father's arms. Look at that. I just will go on to that in a second. But if we put it out there and talk about the thief on across spin, so he was on a career Jesus was on being crucified there was two fees on across one term terms and remember me today?

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Yeah, Jesus said you'll be with me in Paradise twinkling of an eye or

Simon Pinchbeck:

didn't say we'll get you in a church prayer team You

Reverend Ben Cooper:

want to be a pastor?

Simon Pinchbeck:

He said he was the first one that went with Jesus took him into into paradise. Yeah. That that, that fee falling across. So that was a last minute his last breath. Yeah. Sorry I'm into.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So the job of the church is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Why? What is the purpose to stop the thief on that cross? You know that that faith, you know, Jesus just made that really clear without any doubt whatsoever. Today you will be with Me in Paradise. That's the job of the church, isn't it? It's not to talk about prosperity. It's not to talk about healing. All that comes with the gospel not to be talking about number one, number one, but number one, do you know where you are going when you die? Big Question. Where am I going? I'm ever gonna go in the Kings domain or am I gonna go in another area that the king has also created? Yes. So when you even look at that, when you look at that, and some people go Jesus, God wouldn't do anything like that. No way. The Bible says this very clear that Christ is the image of an invisible God and all things were created for him and by him there is nothing outside of creation and within creation and within the spiritual layers within within the visible and the invisible, that God has not created.

Simon Pinchbeck:

What is crazy this place here which Jesus talks about, which is Hades, and there seems to be solar the debt bomb and stomach so yes, and a chasm which cannot be breached? Yeah, so it's the one thing death I mean, death is

Reverend Ben Cooper:

death. Oh death where his eyes sting. Deaf is elever sting if you're going the other way

Simon Pinchbeck:

is the one thing that man cannot fathom. I

Reverend Ben Cooper:

think that's what we see with Her Majesty over the last few days. Not talking about the monarchy here but talking about it doesn't matter how rich you are. It doesn't matter how much notoriety he got it doesn't matter where you live one thing Well there's two things that bring us to the exactly same route coming into the world and going out in the world two areas we both all every human being experiences you can't get in and you can't get out

Simon Pinchbeck:

I don't want to be disrespectful it but but the Queen God rest her soul and she was a great advocate of the Christian faith and believed in Jesus but she didn't she's not taking plenty and Palace to evolution

Reverend Ben Cooper:

now. That's right. No, that's that's what we're saying. So So and when so when you go out she could if you loaded her casket up with all the treasure you couldn't even you can't take it with you. So even if you put it in the casket and it she was laced around with crowns and jewels, it still stays on the earth

Simon Pinchbeck:

that stays on the earth. So So where do

Reverend Ben Cooper:

you go where

Simon Pinchbeck:

and when she goes out and there's a decision isn't a heaven

Reverend Ben Cooper:

well done good and faithful server that that this is what this frightens the living daylights out of it is

Simon Pinchbeck:

is the deal been that the red carpets not going to be laid out and say, oh, here comes the queen?

Reverend Ben Cooper:

No, no, no, it comes my daughter. Yeah, here comes my son. The

Simon Pinchbeck:

red carpet might be laid out but someone like our friend Donny who gives out Bibles, you know, every and sees people come to faith every single day of the week. Yeah, for the queen. Just just

Reverend Ben Cooper:

because that's what we are. We are just we just sons and daughters and daughters. So that so the cross. So when you look at the three crosses on Calvary, you have Christ centered when it always has to be Christ centered. You have hell on one side and you have the kingdom on the other side.

Simon Pinchbeck:

Yes, it's very clear. It's very clear. And it's very simple. Yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So the job of the church is what? To preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. Yeah,

Simon Pinchbeck:

we'll come on to that. Let's just finish off his Scripture because this rich man if you notice here, yeah, the rich man so this rich man never said, Father, forgive me. Now forgive me. He never asked never repented at all. But he said this, he started become a little bit evangelistic then because all of a sudden he said, Then he said, I beg you therefore for other that you would send him to my father's house for five brothers, that he may testify to them less they also come to this place of torment. Abraham said to him, They have Moses and they are the prophets. Let them hear them. And he said, No, Father Abraham, but if one goes to them from dead, then they will repent. But he said to him if they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they wish to be persuaded, though one rise from the dead. Where are the where are the messengers today, telling the world

Reverend Ben Cooper:

hair that's free crosses, one has been taken up by Christ. The other represents the kingdom from one represents the other place, Hades because that's that's what that's what Christ was doing on the cross. He was saving Pete That's what salvation is about. What am I being saved from? Am I being saved from the world? Am I being saved from materialism? Am I being saved from from the trouble around me? No, I am being saved from the fiery flames, the furnace the Scripture actually says the furnace of hell on being saved from the weeping and the gnashing of teeth, an eternity of torture beyond torture beyond human understanding. We don't even understand what torture means really, in the West. Now, we've got no idea when I'm tortured when I'm when the Wi Fi drops off. I'm tortured when McDonald's hasn't got a hot apple pie at 11 o'clock at night after we talk to them. Do you know what I mean? But actual torture when the Bible talks very clearly about the fiery furnace? What is a furnace? A furnace is a is a burning flame. If you look at a Bunsen burner, if you look at you look at even some areas that are working in palliative care in the crematoriums what a furnace actually is. Oh my goodness. What's burning furnace? Yeah, 1000 degrees burning oil pelt the raw even though roar

Unknown:

of us to

Reverend Ben Cooper:

to take out

Simon Pinchbeck:

bone and whatever. But but but, but,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

but what this is, but the flames don't take the person out the flames are the torturous the scope, I can't even think

Simon Pinchbeck:

you're there. We've We've, you're out of your If so, you know. And this thing is going on

Reverend Ben Cooper:

for eternity. And you are failing the hate of the hate of the hate or something. Why

Simon Pinchbeck:

are we not? Why are we not preaching this stuff? And if like it says there if someone came back from the dead, so you get all these people? You know, I can't hear from this person if I'm that person, man, if you heard from someone that was in hell, and they said

Reverend Ben Cooper:

that you couldn't actually describe it. I think that if if you tried to describe it even biblically, I don't think the mind is capable of fully understanding the the torture of torture beyond torture. Well, I don't know if a human being can actually grasp that level of what it what it really is. It's quite strange, isn't it? That because when you think about how the word hell would automatically you'd think would drive you to Christ anyway. Just the word, just the word.

Simon Pinchbeck:

It's been so warm, diluted,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

watered down. And it hasn't been mentioned, it hasn't been spoken about. But it makes it very clear in Matthew chapter 13, verses 41 and 42. It says the Son of man sends His angels and they will gather out of His Kingdom and all causes of sin and all law breakers and we'll throw them in on or throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. What

Simon Pinchbeck:

What's that

Reverend Ben Cooper:

been? What? Matthew? 1341 to 42.

Simon Pinchbeck:

Yeah, yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

And then also Psalms 8613 says, for great is your steadfast love towards me, you have delivered my soul, from the depths of Shola from the depths of Hades from the very depths. So it's my soul. It's my inner most, it's not this skin that I'm living in, because I will return to the dust of the earth because that's where I've come from, but it's the inner man. It's the inner person, the person that we that we don't really see. Only through through the veil of the flesh, you know, through through the eyes of the physical me. I mean,

Simon Pinchbeck:

this is, this is big stuff on Jesus and you know, God is coming out. Jesus warns of offenses in Mark 942, he says, But Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to stumble, it will be better for him to have a millstone hung around his neck, and he were thrown into the sea. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It's better for you to enter life maimed and Robert F two hands to go to hell into the fire that should never be quenched never exactly what you were saying. And eerie quotes from scripture, he says the worm does not die and a fire is not quenched.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So the death wire,

Simon Pinchbeck:

I believe God, I believe people might you might put me right. And it's but I believe that that worm is whatever drives you, whatever puts you is, is number one in your life. If you're not putting Jesus on, that one that does not die that stays with you. And it says if your fork causes you to sin, cut it off, it's better to empty life reclaim that rather than having two feet and be cast into hell into the fire that shall never be quenched. He's talking about earlier, and yet we don't hear this do we? When you when your worm does not die in a fire is not quenched? You know? Time spent?

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Yeah, just picking out what you said the worm does not die. And the fire is not quenched. You know what it's like when you just burn yourself on on a match or sewing out you just catch your your catch your skin. But what would that are did any want to talk about that? What would it be like if you but that's just a quick strike of a matter or a light or you just burn your finger on something you're cooking or you do something or you catch around and you burn. And it comes up as a blister and it's really sore. That's just one area. But this is talking about a fiery furnace that is continuous.

Simon Pinchbeck:

It's I think it's it's whatever drives you in your life that you just keep going round and round and round that in hell, and you'll never have that piece or release and there's no way to cross over. And if you can look up and say that well you will say

Reverend Ben Cooper:

that you're gonna you're gonna say you're going to be Tolman in from all ways. What could have been? Now the job of the church. The church has got certain areas of the church that have got serious blood on its hands.

Simon Pinchbeck:

Felicia sign up and if we got a zekiel, free, right, is equal is a Washington 360s is now it kind of pass in the seven days, that the word of the Lord came to me saying cinnamon, I have made you a watchman. For the house of Israel, therefore hear a word from my mouth and give them a warning from me. When I say to the wicked, you shall surely die. And you give him no warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way to save his life. That same wicked man shall die in his iniquity, but the blood will I will require at your hands.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

That's a showstopper. That's a that's a that's finished it in it.

Unknown:

Right? And then

Simon Pinchbeck:

he goes on to say, so at your credit, if you want the wicked, and he does not turn from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity, but you will have delivered. You have delivered your soul so so there's a responsive responsibility meant to give

Reverend Ben Cooper:

the truth, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. What's he going to set me free from it's going to set me free from not the world, but my soul in a in in eternity, of damnation from hell. So, so when we preach the gospel, we have a responsibility as ministers. As the church we have a responsibility to deliver the message because we the church is responsible to who goes to hell.

Simon Pinchbeck:

It's responsible, because you are the cause you are holding because gay you that yeah, the Treasurer.

Unknown:

Yeah, that.

Simon Pinchbeck:

So if you're not, if you're right, if you're not given the gospel, so when you preach in hell, but the gospel now

Reverend Ben Cooper:

the gospel now is hyper grace is prosperity and healing the three things but then that there, it's not even worth I get me wrong brothers and sisters that are in healing ministries and all that. Above healing above prosperity, above all, all the preaching that we're hearing within the West, living your best life now and grace and all that. The greatest message, the healing message that the Church will preach, if you want to see miracles is to see someone cross the chasm their soul from Hades to the kingdom, because you're already you're already in Hades. You're already you're already there because that's what God rescues us from. We have been rescued we have not taken we have not been saved from salvation. We have been saved from eternal hell.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And, and the Father loves us so much that he Like it says, I've sent you all these profits, but you didn't listen to them.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So we talk about signs and wonders in the church we talk about and there's ministers. So we got gold dust coming out the, the air conditioning, we got people with gold teeth, we got legs grown, we got arms going, we've got you're going to be a rich millionaire.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And also been that one of the biggest things people talk about is there is no hell, and everyone goes to heaven. So it's universally now

Reverend Ben Cooper:

a pastor, that I've a conversation with him. And he says that he does not believe in hell. Clear fact, as I've had a conversation with a clergy member, that doesn't believe in the Immaculate Conception of Christ.

Simon Pinchbeck:

So then you're discarding the Bible.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So what will be the Yeah, 100%. So what is the greatest message the church will ever preach?

Simon Pinchbeck:

Scotland be the gospel of salvation.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So what does salvation do? Salvation takes my soul from hell, and puts it in the kingdom, not my physical me, know, my soul, my soul art, my inner me. But then also, salvation affects my physical life on Earth. So that will bring healing that will bring a miracle. So that gives me peace. So I don't actually need a new leg. I don't need a new arm. Because what I need more than anything, is deliverance from hell. I need salvation. I need salvation. So the job of the church is not hyper grace is not prosperity, teaching people to be rich is not teaching people to be and showing them and showing them how to be evangelist on the on the other end and be bishops and is actually to snatch people, because that's what the Bible says, away from the gates of hell out of the the eternal damnation of the fiery furnace. That's the church. That's the job of the church is to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ, unto salvation

Simon Pinchbeck:

unto salvation. Yeah. Because the Father loves us so much it breaks his heart every time someone say he doesn't send people to help him. Now, you choose, you chose you choose. It's your choice. But there's a degree imagine that bend you know, you've, you've got two children one.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

But when you look, yeah, when you look at it when you break it down, or look at salvation overseas every day. Yeah, so what he does, so when you talk about salvation, I'm syphon, what am I saved from salvation, or I can't be saved from what I'm already in, as in salvation. So I don't have salvation to start with. So I'm actually condemned from the kickoff to that degree

Simon Pinchbeck:

that David said in sending my mother can save me

Reverend Ben Cooper:

sack so I'm not being saved. And in the kingdom from the kingdom, I'm being saved from Hades, from the eternal hell,

Simon Pinchbeck:

and from the ages of probably nine or 10, we choose to sin, Yahweh, what's. So that's what we're being saved from

Reverend Ben Cooper:

from my soul is being saved. And

Simon Pinchbeck:

everything that we get through salvation through a relationship with Jesus Christ is then is a huge bonus while we're here on this earth.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

So the Scripture says, Seek ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and everything else shall be added. That is referring to what we see around us. Yeah, that's around us. But more important than anything is a human being soul is more important than that. That is, it's because healing, that is what the enemy's after. So why are we talking about healing, you've got to get healed, you've got to get delivered. There's no There's that is, it's an upside down message. You have to get saved. First, we talk about hell. And we give them the gospel of Jesus because the enemy

Simon Pinchbeck:

is out to destroy every single creation that God made.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

The greatest healing anyone will ever see. The greatest miracle is seeing someone cross from Hades to the kingdom of God. That's the biggest miracle. That's the biggest miracle if I get healing on the way, thank you, God, because that's what the New Testament writer writes to me. Three times I pleaded with the Lord, will you take it away from me? But then he says, My grace is sufficient for you. But more important than finances more important than healing, more important than the prosperity and the name and climate and all the grace message out there is literally, Lord, save me. Save us. Salvation is the only message the church to talk about. Because salvation brings Jesus what does Jesus bring? Jesus brings the healing.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And then if you hear anyone preached on on on hell turn and burn and all that sort of stuff. They almost take a pleasure in see what no but the Lord takes no pleasure in seeing someone depart from his kingdom it He wants everyone is it says in the in the Scripture is is, is wishes for no one to perish. Yeah. And yet we choose every day.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Yeah, that's right. So the very interesting thing that are sitting in my spirit at this minute is that so now I'm a born born again believer. My soul is in God's hands, I'm in the kingdom. But now I've got an issue of where I'm a sinner saved by grace. So my sins have been nailed to the cross of Calvary, we've got Matt, it's really clear. My sins don't take me to hell, my failings don't because they've been nailed to the cross. And God's forgotten about that. That's redemption. So when you confess and because there is a teaching out there, that if you don't live holy you, you can lose your salvation, and you can drop back into the gates of hell were naturally my lifestyle choices. Before there's a clear, clear message here today. You can't lose your salvation. Once you're saved, you're saved because God is the the gift of salvation. So what needs to be really clear today for all of us is that my sin, I've been saved from my, from the accusation I've been saved from the penalty of sin. But because I'm living in a fallen world, I'm always going to be sinning to a degree because I'm a sinner saved by grace. So you can't be a Christian or Cashman, you can't be a Christian in the flesh. So, so people have not gotten a worry about our Swan today, I've sinned today have fallen today, the fall, and the sin won't take you to hell. Because if you are saved, you are safe. So that's what redemption and justification is all about. If you truly ever really, truly have a relationship, and that's the true relationship, true, true relationship. My heart is for God, but I've fallen, but my fallen won't take me to hell because I've been rescued. So that the message of the church is to give the gospel of Jesus Christ that's a message John 316 For God so loved the world. Come to me,

Simon Pinchbeck:

and and understand. And also Ben, I think you're right as an as to be an understanding of what you're being saved from, and what you've been saved to.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

What my save what, what, where was I before I was saved, where was my soul? Because the gospel message across the platform, a church at the moment is, is a very physical message. You can have you can have one soul message, this

Simon Pinchbeck:

message of God is love. Yeah. And you can prosper and loving God wants send you to hell, that's the thing, but it just created it.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

He can't get away from the fact that God created this abyss.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And he doesn't send you there. You choose. You choose your choice. No, he's so once in one bestseller and Thessalonians second has to cesarean is one nine, it says, These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power. When it comes that day to be glorified. The Saints also be admired among those who believe. So you've been separated, separated, it's that separate as a

Reverend Ben Cooper:

separation. So Psalm 86, verse 13, says, for great is your steadfast love toward me, you have delivered my soul doesn't talk about the flesh doesn't talk about the outside meat, it talks about the enemy, The me that's going to live forever, not the skin that I'm walking in, not the bone, not the blood, not my physical me. He's talking about the enemy. It says Psalm 86, verse 13, for great is your steadfast love towards me, you have delivered to God delivers delivered my soul from the depths of Shola. Yeah, so God delivers my soul. It doesn't talk about the physical because the physical only has three school years and 10 it has an approximate lifespan. So the physical has a lifespan but the inner the Inner Inner tube of me the enemy the real me is going to live and be around for eternity in two in one one or the other place. I don't there's no there's no in between ground there's no in between that layer. There's not there's there's

Simon Pinchbeck:

no you know, get purgatory out of your head get painted by Catholic church now you you sort of have one or the other

Reverend Ben Cooper:

it's either the kingdom or hell yeah. Anyway, the kings are mine.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And my friends what happens is when you decide to to to confess, repent and embrace Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior if it's a true salvation, then if it's a true relationship with you just crossed, then you're right. When all your wrongs get right, and God doesn't so, so you are saved, you have that, that, as they say, you've got a fast track ticket, you got your enter into 11. If not all that stuff, you'll be judged by that stuff what you've done.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Yeah, there's a judgment on that. judgment on that. But your name is written in the Lamb's book of life. But

Simon Pinchbeck:

if you're not, if you haven't accepted Christ, then there is judgment, on the stuff that the whole salvation

Reverend Ben Cooper:

I I think what's needed for this nation at the moment and for church leaders forgive me if I'm stepping out of line is to actually look at what salvation is, what is salvation? Where am I being saved? From? Where am I being rescued? From? What might what am I being set free? From what? What does salvation actually mean? What does redemption mean? What, what are the fundamental points and teachings a

Simon Pinchbeck:

message that is not being taught? And it's not being explained? Look, look, look, it's in the Bible. God, please, just get your heads round round this church, because listen to the spending in, in Matthew 25, starts at 41 is Jesus saying, Jesus is saying this, he says, then he will also say to those on the left hand, Depart from me, you cursed, your you cursed into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. So he's saying, you know, get away from me, for I was hungry, and you gave Me no food. And this is what we were talking about, about people who falsely believe that they are safe, because they're doing good works. I was thirsty, and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger, and you did not take me in naked and you did not clothe me sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me? And then they will, then they will answer him, saying, Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick in prison? And did not minister to you? Then he will answer them saying, Assuredly, I say to you, in so much as you did not do it to the least of one of these, you did not do it to me. And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life. He, if he lays it out, straight out right now. This is this is the strongest man that ever lived who's given it to you straight? Because if he didn't wrap it up in a in a fluffy coat,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

so what was that scripture? You just read out there? Sorry, Simon, what was that? It's

Simon Pinchbeck:

Matthew 25. And it started story that 41 and goes all the way from Ben to 40 Seems

Reverend Ben Cooper:

so really important. It's talking about feeding, looking after caring for treating your neighbor as you would expect to be treated yourself looking after, you know, all all that I would wrap it up in a word like human kindness as you as you want to be treated. And if we do not treat humanity like that, we pass Christ by you, you walk by me, you walk by me, you walk by the lowly, you didn't feed me, I was hungry. You didn't feed me physically. And you didn't feed me spiritually. I was thirsty. You didn't give me a drink. The physical drink water and you didn't give me eternal water. You didn't give me rivers of living water.

Simon Pinchbeck:

This is what it's about. But this is always a bashes where this is where you know. So the script pit real place, if you're a leader, or somewhere in a church, all this stuff is real. And you are playing with people's eternal salvation because somebody can walk into your church on a Sunday morning and be made on a Sunday evening. Yeah. And if you're not given them,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

so the so the, the gospel that's been being peddled for cash and has been done for so long, is meaningless. It's wicked. And it's more ways than one meaningless. Firstly, because it's not talking about heaven and hell, it's talking about what you can store up for yourself on the earth. Because that's what is prosperity is about the prosperity gospel is my skin is going to benefit from what I've got around me now, when actually I won't, because it's only benefiting the one at the top of the tree that's pushing it. But then far more than that, my soul could end up in eternal damnation. Now, Revelation Chapter 20, verse 14, and 15 says, The Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire, the second death, the lake of fire. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire or there may be I tell you what it makes you realize that it that the healing ministry, the prosperity gospel, the name it and climate and the hyper grace is is just, yeah is the wrong end of words, or sounds bad. It's so bad, so bad. It's beyond. It's beyond human understanding because

Simon Pinchbeck:

it's for worldly. It's for worldly gain, gain.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

It's for worldly gain. When the Bible talks about your soul, your soul, you can have all the riches, as Simon have brought to the table so that you can have all the riches, you can be prospering that you think God is prospering you when your soul is trapped in Hell's fiery furnace, you will benefit from your riches on Earth, you will benefit from living in a nice house on Earth. But actually the skin that you're living in, you feel quite uncomfortable, because you know, what you have around you, isn't actually giving you peace.

Simon Pinchbeck:

I just I can't see. Jesus said it so many times, and I can't see how people won't take it and run with it. Because, you know, he says in crikey, he says in in, in Matthew 1347. He said, he was talking about the parable of the sower. And he said, he uses the good seed as a son of man, the field is the world that good seeds are the sons of the kingdom. But the tares are the sons of the wicked one. The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the Reapers are the angels. Therefore, as the tears are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age, the Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom, all things that offend, and those that practice lawlessness, and cast them into the furnace of fire, where there'll be wailing and gnashing of teeth, Then the righteous will shine forth from the sun in the kingdom on their part of who he is. He who has ears to hear, let him hear. Yeah. And then one that we don't talk about much is a parable of the dragnet bending, which is 47. He says, Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a dragnet that was cast into the sea, and gathered some of every kind, which, when it was full, they drew to the shore. And they sat down and gathered all the good into vessels, but through the bad way. So it will be at the end of the age, the angels will come forth, separate the wicked for among the chest, and cast them into the furnace of fire, whether it be wailing, and gnashing of teeth, it keeps it this is a warning,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

it's a warning, clear warning, warning after warning after warning after warning. And it's not it's not warning of this is what this is really important that we're saved, we're washed in the blood of Jesus. So I will make mistakes on this earth because I'm a human being. But the church needs to preach the gospel of salvation, as because it has it has so much on its hands. If If anyone dares actually to call themselves, a pastor, a reverend, a preacher of the gospel and evangelists, there is there is a heavier weight sitting on the shoulders of us. Because we have a responsibility of delivering the gospel so that there is there is another there is another scripture, there are scriptures that refer to that you know the truth, you are a deliverer of the gospel, and there is a greater greater judgment on you for not sharing the gospel of Jesus Christ, the true gospel of salvation. So not only is there a judgment on us, but if you are a pastor, or a leader or a preacher, if you are bringing in Sunday school, whatever, if you are a teacher, or, or whatever, you may look at that in the church. There is a weight sitting on you, and I'm gonna say about me for delivering the gospel of truth. Because if I don't, the penalty is death. Eternal death.

Simon Pinchbeck:

So we live in a world Bender, don't we? And you're exactly right. That, you know, we have to be warning, warning people. But we live in a world that we see it all the time and I tell her, you know, prepare for your pay for your funeral now or prepare for your death for your you can so physically, there's there's a big onus put on preparing for your physical death. Yeah. But nothing for your spiritual death is there

Reverend Ben Cooper:

because it doesn't believe in it. Because everything ever the majority of what we see is now we're living in a society of the now society. It's an im society. What I have I been Leaving and what I have fueled me, but when all this has gone and again, we see it with Her Majesty laying in that casket or what she had the palaces, the riches, the corgis, the little pony, Emma, everything that she owned on this earth stayed on the earth. The lesson that we I believe we must learn, maybe from that is that whoever you might be the most well known person across the world, but you go out alone, and you stand in front of the judge.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And all it's what we've talked about this morning, is please take it and look at it and look at the scriptures and and go through them. Because it is a complete warning, you know, and Jesus said, today's the

Reverend Ben Cooper:

day of your salvation is the day today, this moment, this breath, if you

Simon Pinchbeck:

have another breath tomorrow, never come.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

We've never got tomorrow, because tomorrow is always tomorrow. So we never ever tomorrow, never ever tomorrow, Ben. Because we're always in in the moment in the now here and now. And they

Simon Pinchbeck:

and might you know, we haven't talked about it. But you see all the time and the hospice people that thought I would never get cancer people that thought I would never I'm never going to be in this situation. I'm living my best life. My best life now. People that thought that. And all of a sudden, Bosch bang, here we are. What's next? What's next? what's waiting for me?

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Because what I have around me, I can't take it. What we have, that's quite an alarming thought, isn't it? It really it really is if you if you throw your eyes back to the funeral, when the Queen was stripped of the that ball and the staff and the crown, and all this everything was stripped is quite, quite visually, a very powerful thing to watch that everything was being stripped back from her that nothing of this world can you can take to the next stage of life. No, you can't take nothing. You can't take your crown that you might think that you're have here.

Simon Pinchbeck:

Look what happened to the Egyptians spent, you know, they build they filled the pyramids with stuff that they fought, the person would need.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

And now build a metal deck detector man come along has gone on the benefit of God, so you can't take nothing. And that image of the queen in that casket brings it really home. You might be the most well known person in the world, you might live in a castle, you might have a life where you can have anything you want. We come in for the same way. And we go out the same way. And the bit in between is really meaningless as it is the book ecclesiastics says everything under the sun is meaningless because under the sun is under the natural earth. But there's an eternity. There's an eternity and eternity that this natural me won't never get to. But my soul will see it. Yeah. My physical won't but my my soul will.

Simon Pinchbeck:

And then there's a choice. There's a choice, Ben, you know, God as you want to spend it. Yeah. And yes, you hear people flippantly say, Well, you know, I don't care. I'll go to hell. But really,

Reverend Ben Cooper:

really, do you really? You don't know what it is? You don't know what it is? So you don't know what it is? Eight I think even if he was the strong atheists and you studied what hell possibly could be. That would switch you over just the just the natural thought of that. I think studying Hell is a good thing to study. And there's

Simon Pinchbeck:

enough in the Bible is like, it is

Reverend Ben Cooper:

true. It's everywhere. And you know what? Thank God for it. Thank God for it because it brings you and we only bring it to a point some days, don't we? Because we're all sinners. We're all sinners saved by grace. And thank God it's not by works so that no one can boast. The gift of salvation is given your names written in the Lamb's book of life you are saved you are blood washed but thank God that my turn a turn or destination isn't hanging on my mistakes on this earth. Yeah, thank you God because no one would make it to heaven. No one if not, if, if

Simon Pinchbeck:

if it was all what you was what because the Bible tells us clearly that

Reverend Ben Cooper:

your mind has an adulterous mind your thinking your attitude, your pride, your everything takes you

Simon Pinchbeck:

even bless you in hell even our best works like filthy rags. It says the Bible done it so not by the heart is deceptive. Above all things is wicked. So it's not just your heart. You can't trust can't trust flesh. No, because that will lead you down down the roots of fantasies who will lead you down the roots of thoughts and actions Yeah, now we've only formed for you is Jesus Christ.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Hallelujah. We're there. We're there. We're out. We're in, we're out. We're all over the place, wherever you are today. You know, great podcasts, I think, really interesting today. Very deep. But you know what, we haven't even really scratched the surface. Are

Unknown:

we really not at all?

Reverend Ben Cooper:

You haven't. It's just just been a quick 4052 minute. 51 minutes, we're in a quick 51 minutes really, and we haven't really picked the top of it. Really, the Bible is absolutely laced with it. And licensed it's, it's rooted in it. It's all over Old Testament, New Testament. But wherever you are, thank you so much, Simon, you got anything to say on the wire? Just to

Simon Pinchbeck:

say that there's enough there even though we didn't scratch it, we've just scratched the surface. There's enough there to make you really think and listen, if you've not made a decision for Christ yet, then how they our employee to make it right now. Wherever you want to just make a decision for Christ because Today's a day your salvation. And today we want your name to be written the Lamb's book of life and today we we want you to be assured to be assured that you're going to heaven and not the other place.

Reverend Ben Cooper:

Amen. Amen.#Christian straight talk. You can find us on multiple platforms and just have a Google you will find us. Simon's got an email out there somewhere on their platforms as well. You can catch ahold of us, very easily and very simply. Have a wonderful day you know, God bless you all in the mighty name of Jesus. Amen.