Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:25

Good afternoon and welcome. Welcome to Jim appel radio stash. Ah,

Leya: 0:30

did you have a fella ready? Yo, oui oui

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:35

hang on. Are we really French? No, no, no we know we foodie. Anyway, good afternoon wherever you are today. May God bless you and strengthen you. It is leya and it is myself and we are back on the other side of the mics after a long break. Lots of things have gone on lots of things have happening. We are building work and different bits and pieces here in the church. You are listening to us Elim church here in Little 'ol, Sunny Swanley in this studio, wherever you are across the world. We want to thank you so much for the 1000s of downloads across the earth. It's absolutely out literally 1000s When you see the the stacks it will blow you remember

Leya: 1:15

we first started in that little tiny room. That little room was there. Yeah. Little, little tiny room and it was like, somebody listened to us.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:22

Somebody. It was us. We listened now it's 1000s. And literally 1000s less

Leya: 1:29

the power of the word.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:30

Yeah, the power of voice the power of the word stretching across the world. And we are back. We are back and we'll see how we go today. So what are we what what's going what's going on what's going on in the UK? What is happening today?

Leya: 1:44

We've got new pharaoh in town.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:45

We got a new pharaoh. And he looks slick and smooth. And he looks.

Leya: 1:52

He looks like he's got the knowledge. He's got the knowledge. That's what everyone's got.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 1:57

He's got the moves like Jagger. Let's hope we can help out. The poor meek and mild like me. That's all.

Leya: 2:04

I remember when when Boris Johnson was in power and used to pray for him. And I used to think he paid for Boris Johnson. Wow. But now I understand why obviously, it's that it will be guided in the right way. Yeah. And it's just, yes, a very nice way of doing things. But I just want to say welcome back to you may well come back hear me? Yes. It's been a long time since I've been sat on the other side of this microphone. It's been

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:29

a long, long, long time since we've had all the building work and astute it's been a long time. I reckon at least over the year. Easy. Definitely. Definitely over the year. Very happy to be back. We're back. That's how we get here once a week and we can churn this ramble out. Yeah, because people are a bit of rambled and they they like to talk so much about chocolate as much and style. We don't talk about food we go on strict fasting. We've been fasting for all that time, and we're about as thin as these might pose. Oh, wish I can can you hide behind the mic? Well, we're living in really interesting times. Yeah, we are. We really are since we recorded last has been crazy things out there.

Leya: 3:10

Yet in our lives, as well as in the countries life and the world and worlds. Yeah, yeah.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 3:15

And you pull interest in Word and I don't know how this word is gonna go. But the word is dreams. dream dreams. What does it actually mean? What? What are dreams? What are dreams?

Leya: 3:29

Do you want me to give you a little bit? Let me give you a little bit of a little bit of background as to why I've chosen this word. Yeah, choose it chose it. Okay, so I was thinking about oh, we've not we've not spoken in front of the mics for over a year what the important things have happened to me. And one of the sermons that really struck me was the one that you did on Joseph. Oh, God. In Genesis, yeah. And I remember that you stood up and you gave the the sermon where you did the bid from and I'm going to quote it. Genesis 37. Yeah. And it was specifically verse 19. And you looked at me and you said it comes at Dreama they said to each other come on, let's kill him. Oh, no. Yeah, so powerful online isn't it is a powerful line and the reason why it struck me very much in my heart is that I have always been a dreamer as if it's a bad thing. Okay, so people in my life it was gonna when you're gonna wake up when he gonna stop dreaming? Come on, get with the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:35

money offering and it dream dreams dreams. It is. It's weird

Leya: 4:39

is the thing that struck me even more was afterwards I said she'd happy really struck me. You said Yeah, yeah, no, no. Anyway, this bishop got up. And then the bishop we'd never have a bishop Mr. Bishop friend, our Bishop friend got our friend Johnny Johnny Bishop looked me in the eye and said, Here comes that dreamer again. I It was like I was being struck in the heart barring a bit of Jesus, dreaming. And I and I've got it tattooed on my arm now you I've got that coming as well. becoming something to behold this dream come up because I like a bit of you know, the old

Reverend Ben Cooper: 5:15

now with the dreaming of the world. People like you said, like you get people say to you, not you but just generally then you're, you're always dreaming. To know what sometimes I think we are a very I'm gonna say is we are very spiritual church, we are a frontline charity. And everything we do is spiritual Word, Word, Word, Word, Word. Always. Whatever we do, we're really always pressing the spiritual drum, Jesus, everything that we do here, everybody knows that. but alongside that you are human beings. So you do have dreams. So why do they centric, where do they come from? Because when you look at the Scripture, there is just so much on dreams. Yeah, God given dreams, dreams. But are they all God given dreams? Or is it the psychological brain just ticking and clicking? When

Leya: 6:03

I looked up today, because we don't like to do too much research on this, because you're likely to know a lot of things like chat. So when I did my quick Google at lunchtime this afternoon, there were so many conflict in Yeah, sorry. That's my, the church of Google, run by Amazon. When I did my quick google this afternoon, over me sandwiches and tea, and tea. There were so many conflicting bits. Imagine about your dreams. So there were so many things when angels appear to people as dreams are dreams.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:41

Are they visions or dreams? How do we make the defining definitive? Yeah, cup. That's a dream. That's a vision. What What is it because the book of Joel says in the last days, I'll pour out my spirit on all flesh, blah, blah, blah. sons and daughters will you know, visions and dreams Oh, man, hey, 28 and x. And so that's an interesting scripture in it. So what is visions? And what is dreams? Is, is a vision of God and is a dream of a human being?

Leya: 7:08

Well, yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Because he has this. He has a difference in Joel 228. It says difference there. There's prophecy. There's dreams and there's visions. So are they all? Yeah, no, no, no, no. is prophecy, what you have when you're in some sort of altered state,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:34

so prophecies in it prophecy is the simple fact that God has given you a word, and you are sharing the word. So prophecies with rise open,

Leya: 7:43

but with that, in another occult world, oh, prophecy is seen as being seen in the future. Yeah, yeah. So when you have a dream, rather than dreams in your sleep, when you have a dream, is that you foresee in your own future?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:00

Phenomenon making cake? You went there? You went. So so the, and then

Leya: 8:07

and then also in Joel, it says visions? So our visions, you have in a bit of visions, you manifest in your dreams, in your imagination, is prophecy, something that will come to pass,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:22

we know we've gone God, you've hit some physiological we're gonna be some people really going to be sending us some emails,

Leya: 8:29

you're gonna be chewing on their knuckles. You witches? No, I'm trying to work out what it actually means. So I don't believe in the book

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:38

at all. Now we believe in it because it's there. But we don't kin to it. Yeah, we're not in Jeremiah 29, verse eight, it says that's, there's the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel. Do not, do not let your profits and your diviners Who among you, deceive you? And do not listen to the dreams that they dream? So, so that so you just mentioned the occult world? Right? Okay. So he's so Gods coming up to Halloween. So this is really important. And how many people got pie so only a bit of farmer unable to tell? Whenever? That's what the devil wants us to think it is dark, it is spiritual, it is powerful. And it's insidious. But it's done in a like, you know, that like commercial Halloween, isn't it? Yeah, the shops drive the commercial get the order. Yeah. All that.

Leya: 9:33

Today, I was driving into work and there's a new series on the TV and it's called something like the devil's I don't know, the devil's own or something like that. And that's on a bus going down the middle of the street. Or where's the one that says God or Jesus

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:46

look at that lawsuit or come out against that ministry? Because I had Jesus on the side of a bus. Bang. Not long ago.

Leya: 9:52

Dead. It's not bus. It's a G bus is a G bus. Yeah. But they see now

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:01

so God speaks about the prophets. He says, Do not let the Prophet and the Diviners Yeah, who are among you to save you. So right, so we understand the wait in a tear grow together, Christians number laters

Leya: 10:16

Jeremiah 2328 Let the prophet who has a dream tell the dream and let him as the word speak my word faithfully, what has straw in common with weight so that's what you were just saying. So go

Reverend Ben Cooper: 10:29

so the weight and the tear grow very close together and when the weight and the tear tear grow together at the very beginning stages and quite a way for it's very difficult to find and to see the, the cut off point, you know, they grow together, they look the same, but then there comes a point when one the weaker one dies off, which is that the tear, you know, and they look the same, and it's the same Isn't it because when you this scripture that we're pulling out just by literally God chance, God has driven us to the false prophets. So we know that there are false prophets there are good prophets and we know there are dividends and we know that there are prophets of God and our prophets are bow and it's the same for today and where we sit you know, in the old as it was for the new gods, it's makes it very clear on the same yesterday today for more. So it's the defining factor, isn't it? The the factor that is hard of now dreams, you know, we all you know, we have all types of strange dreams, you know, all things because we are human beings, we can't we can't deflect them. We can't stop ourselves dreaming. But what we got to work out

Leya: 11:31

do you mean dreaming when you sleep? Or do you mean dreaming as in trying to manifest something, trying to have an idea of what your future might be?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:40

Well, if you're thinking about power of your future, that is the power of persuasive thought. So that is a religion on its own. Is

Leya: 11:47

that not now? Come on. Now. Here we go. See, I was thinking about this. Faith is the evidence of things unseen.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:54

And we serve a God that call to things are not as though they are Yeah. So. So

Leya: 11:59

is that God manifest in our dreams, and therefore are our dreams like, so when I say Behold, the dreamer cometh. Yeah. Is that us having an idea of what we want to do in our future? In my mind, I think that's already predestined. Yeah, and our dreams are informed by my God. Yeah, my dream when I was young. Yeah, was to be a singer. I've written it down, sold down on it. That's what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a singer. And God has manifested that in my life. So me me that is about having the faith even though I didn't know that's what I was in at the time. And God calling that forward so therefore our prayers a step towards that dream becoming true because I'm on God's path I would I'm just going to do might drop

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:51

Whoa, bang. I will go a little bit further the will of the Father Yeah, so you can you can you can think what your future is or you can anticipate it can Yeah, but is it what God wants for me? Is really different it's really the big

Leya: 13:10

dreams come true. Yeah. So the things that we want that come true is that when our desire not desires the wrong word, but the things that we would like to happen in our lives is that when our wonderful future and God's plan come together for example, this building

Reverend Ben Cooper: 13:32

good this this dream that usually dream? Yeah, so there's definitely a difference between Can we can we use the word spiritual Dream Vision? Yeah. Gosh,

Leya: 13:47

so in my alarm time, I wanted to become a manager. Yeah, so what I did was I wanted to do it I wanted to become a manager in my job. So I put it entirely in God's hands the whole time. I've told you I'm no fan so I kept saying was every day that I was getting prepared to do the application form getting prepared to do the interview everything if it's meant to be God, please let it be if it's your will let it be please God let it be please if it's your if it's what you want is your will. If it's what you want. Yeah, God

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:25

so let it happen so that the will of the Father is when you're not when you're trying to find that so many people find out what the will of the Father is very difficult for a human believers life finding exactly where God because we all get caught in the world. Don't we have mortgages, cars, work life, family, blah, blah, blah, all all this stuff? It's all biblical. It's all there. We understand all that. But what actually does God want for me? So am I dreaming? What I want? Yes, right. Is it a romance or is it literally the will of the Father because you look at it visions, your dreams, and prophecies. prophecies are a word from God. So I'm prophesying like if you if you used to take Jonah, God said I've got a word for you, I want you to take it down to that city and gentlemen, I ain't going there and when the run Yeah, I do in it. But God gave him a word. And he was to give the words of prophecy is speaking into and over. Yeah, but as well as having godly prophets, we've got devil prophets that just put out that, yeah, so we've got prophets of Baal, we've got prophets of God. We've got prophets of Baal. And then there's another little scripture tucked up in the book of Genesis, Genesis 41, Verse eight says, so in the morning, his spirit was troubled talking about the king, okay. And he, then he sent and he called for the magicians of Egypt, and all the wise men, Pharaoh. Smooth Pharaoh told them his dreams, there was no one that could interpret them to Pharaoh. So Daniel rocks up in the equation, so Daniel comes up. See that? That is quite, it's quite interesting, because he was anointed. And he was. So the devil, I just put it put it like this, the devil doesn't know what God is gonna do. Exactly. So that's why the magicians and that's why the wise could not anticipate couldn't even think about what this could be, they could not interpret what God is going to do. God is higher. So God deposits drains, because that is clear. He and it says his spirit was troubled. So it has come from somewhere God dropped visions and dreams because God drops prophecy God dropped word. Even when you look at when you look at the Scripture, the vast amount of scriptures on on dreaming on all that sort of stuff. So here we have a clear and occult world cannot work out what their master their kin, their Pharaoh was troubled about. It took a godly man to unpack

Leya: 17:05

it. Yeah. Because it's what you say on a Sunday, quite often. Don't tell me your dreams. Don't tell me that God's got a word for me because it might not be it Yeah. contradicts what somebody else's word as. And there's a part in Ecclesiastes, which I can now pronounce. Yeah. Ecclesiastes, chapter five. Verse seven. For when dreams increase, and words grow many. There is vanity. Yeah, yeah. Well, God is the one you must fear. Wow. So for me, that's like, keep your dreams in God's channel. Keep your that's what it means to make it keep faithful to the Word know that. Or try and know that what you're hearing is the will of the Father.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:52

Yeah. So it's finding out what the will of the Father is. Find out what the will of the Father is and what what God is calling you to. Yeah, but we still can't get away from

Leya: 18:03

that clang on like an empty Bell. But you know what I mean? Because that's what you're saying when dreams increase and words grow many there is vanity when it's about you. When all you're doing is talking talking, talking my dreams, this my dreams. I had a dream I had a dream, my dream my dream.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:17

I had a dream. Yeah. So there is a difference between a human and Bible believing believers are still human. Did you know that? A little gods something they get they get a new path. Right. So we're dopers. Write a book of Acts, chapter 18. Verse nine says, The Lord said to Paul, one night in a vision, vision, do not be afraid, but go and speak and do not be silent. So God speaks visions, God speaks dreams. God speaks in through prophets. He speaks through His Word. So God uses whatever he's going to use. He used the wall. When he because he used the Bible says he used a donkey he spoke. So there is so much out there. And then in Daniel seven, Daniel chapter seven, very interesting book, Daniel chapter 11. Verses one and three. It says in the first year of Bell, Shahzad, king of Babylon, Babylon, you know, by the rivers of Babylon,

Leya: 19:15

Babylon,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:17

so, the king of Babylon, Daniel saw a dream and visions now Daniels having toe he's got a double barrel shower, he's got a must be a twin. He must be clever Rodin.

Leya: 19:32

Also the one that could dance really well.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:34

David. David could fold it he could older he could. He could do the lot. David it was a it was a jack of all trades. Right? So Daniel chapter seven. It clearly tells us in the Good Book in the ESV Daniel sought a dream and visions of his head as it laid on the bed and he wrote down the wrote down the dream and told the some of this matter, Daniel declared I saw In my vision by night, oh dear, and behold, the four winds from the heaven was stirring up a great sea and outcome of the beach. Now that's interesting what that's talking about there about in times and all that, but what what is really important is it Daniel says, Daniel says in Daniel, chapter seven, verse one, Daniel saw a dream, and visions or dreams and visions, are they the same? Or is our diff,

Leya: 20:27

I think, from what we're seeing from what you've said there. And the part that I spoke of at the beginning, acts same as it talks about visions, dreams, and prophecy is so free.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:42

It's free, different, three different ways. Things, the lines blur so much on them. It's like a crossover crossover that they create. They're blurring, they fall into each other Genesis 42. Gone, verse nine, says, and Joseph remembered the dreams that he had dreamed of them. So this is talking about dreams. Looking at dreams

Leya: 21:06

specifically says, I went to sleep last night, and I dreamt that these are the sheets of stood up stood up. Yeah. And that's why they're like, well hang on a minute. So they interpret the gift that was given to Joseph as something bad. That's why they're

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:23

so easy thing easy, Feng Shui, Feng e Shabbat,

Leya: 21:27

I'm saying, Yeah, I've been dreams is a good thing. Good to dream. But you can't make sure that you're doing it for the right reasons. I mean, I'm talking about now having a I have a dream. I have a dream. No, no, no, I have a dream that I will become a manager in my workplace. And when I have had that dream, I will do everything compassionate. And try and do it as much as I can to the principles of my faith. Yes, yes. So I'm not saying I'm great. But you know, it's nice to have a dream where you fulfill it and God gives it to you and you know, that it's, I know that this is going to happen, I know that it's going to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:09

so Daniel was given a dream and a vision, Joseph was given a dream. And he ran down to his mates and his brothers and his best friend brothers, I should say brothers, anything I I've had a train. So that was a God given dream because God was given him a vision and he and he is using the word dream and how do we know that because his brothers are clear There they go, here comes the dreamer. So so there is a clear clear fact that the Bible talks about dreams and the what we're looking at they are of God, but the human being dreams. If you're worried about something if you're fearful it's very interesting about your emotions will make you drain it will I've had awful ones where I've dreamt of falling off a cliff and all types of things on woke up and electric shock and light supposed

Leya: 23:02

to be your bodies or your sight your your psychological, your psychological minds way of trying to work its way through trauma is one way of interpreting sleep dreams.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:16

Well what about when a man is born a bit more fun? And that fact that I wasn't too happy with that? God if you give me one that's a bad one.

Leya: 23:26

But your dream to rebuild the church?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:29

Yeah, was it a dream or vision because that because you were

Leya: 23:32

posting a lot of stuff at the time pictures saying about you, you should follow your dreams you should follow your dreams you will be manifested if they are right for God.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:42

I think I the I think this is how I would explain it to someone that's got Well, was it? I think they they they run in each other. And I don't know if you can literally be sure to define the difference between a vision and a dream because God dropped them in gun shops them in. So but the Bible talks about both and again, you got a reference that that great get great prophets that speaks about to our vision and a dream. Same. Yeah. So there's so

Leya: 24:13

if a vision is like I had so somebody in the church when we started with the band, remember somebody had a vision, she said I had a vision that all the children were outside playing. Yeah. And it happened. That's a vision letter. I'm having a vision. A dream for me is like I have a I have I want I want to say desire, because that's the wrong word. But I have a feeling that I would like this to happen. Yeah. So you had a dream that you didn't have a dream. You didn't have a vision just ever. I have an idea that I would like this to look like this in God's name

Reverend Ben Cooper: 24:51

is that is that part of thinking that the human being is thinking and dreaming and because we can all throw our thoughts forward to how we would think Get would look can't wait. So is that a vision and I'm dreaming it and I'm saying, Lord, it'd be great to have this though we could do this. I think when you do that you're following what God already has. And like you said he's already predestined, but I want to drop saying in a little bit dark. I don't I ain't dark job. We will not Oh Japanese, like Job chapter seven, verse 14, and it says, thing, can you scared me with dreams

Leya: 25:27

and you scared me with dreams?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:28

You know, only talking to not talking to the devil is talking to God? Then you scare me with dreams and terrified me with visions. Yeah. So So again, we have a righteous man, we have a biblical servant, as we say. So God gives dreams and this is a little bit we will one then it is a little bit war

Leya: 25:52

or low this is a is a is a jealous God. Or now that's what that's all about that chapter, isn't it? I'm jealous. God, I want you to prove to yourself that you will not bend you will always be faithful to me. And faith is the evidence of things. unsane.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:11

Yeah, yeah. Hebrews chapter 11, verse one, come on. Yeah, I need it. Now faith is the evidence of things not seen. But for things that are hopeful. So what is that? That's a dream. That's a dream. So what is faith? So is faith the dream is faith. A vision is faith is believing. That's where I was. When I left work today. It was love, faith. Faith. Faith is believing. Even though we can't see with our natural eyes, but maybe God has given us a a spark in our innermost being to go, do you know what I had a glimmer God dropped, God dropped. God opened my eyes. And I see then in Daniel chapter two, verse three, it says, And the king said, I had a dream, and my spirit troubled to know the dream. So the dream drops into the mind, I believe this is what it drops into the mind, the mind processes it. And then the Spirit picks it up. Because we are one but we're not one. But we're separate our go. Yeah, so the body so the Jesus says, this, love the Lord thy God with all your all your strength, all your mind, or your body with all your soul, four major elements, but they all work together. They all work together. And there's a couple in there, the mind and the body that work against the spiritual side, because the Bible says, A wretched man, am I why do I do the things that I hate? And I can't do the things that I know that I should do? So the great Prophet, the great New Testament writer writes very clearly. So there is a definite defining line in the sand between the human me and the spiritual May.

Leya: 27:52

It's but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:55

it is difficult to work out it is difficult. Because God dropped God is in everything. God is in everything. Yeah, that's what I mean. So you can't say is it godly? Or is it not godly? I,

Leya: 28:09

but my question is, when the vision the dream, the hope Yeah, comes true. That That must mean God wanted it to happen because it was predestined.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:23

Or predestination is already is already carved on the tablet. Yeah, your your,

Leya: 28:28

your it may from my lunchtime chat,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:32

or your boss gave me a phone call. Hey, some, right predestination, pre break it down. Pre destination, so I'm going to get somewhere. I'm going to be somewhere. I might use my own Sat Nav for a while. But at the end of dress is where God wants me to be. Exactly. So pre destination. So guys, I will get there. Well, God will get me in a matter what because I am to Jonah. But I might have a few little offshoots on the way and I might have a little meow on the way so

Leya: 29:06

I might go. What's that bloke that political? No, not quite go. You know, the one that went off and he went off and he was underneath the tree and the angel came down and gave him a little bit of food and then talking about it. Yeah. And that's really interesting. He was in the wrong place. Yeah, he was dreaming in the wrong place. Have a little bit of a larger time. And a larger,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:29

went on that mountain and he prayed. He prayed for rain and rain fell after three and he spoke so right so we spoke very clearly. Yeah. Now when he spies prayer,

Leya: 29:41

asking for your dream to come true is prayer asking, good lord, I really need to have rain because if I do, I'm looking for something that's predestined, which is that I will be able to have the crops grow. I will be able to have whatever it is on Need, I will get it, I have faith that you will provide it to me, Lord. So I'm asking for this thing to happen. I'm asking for my dream to occur.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:11

Right. So So Elia is talking about the big biblical text in one kings 18 days of Elijah, Elijah, verses 1441. And then going on to chapter nine, it's a big text that we're looking at. And it says, Then Elijah said that I had go and get something to eat and drink. I hear a mighty rainstorm coming. Now, that's really powerful, because he says, I hear of, I hear of, so there is a rumbling in his spirit. So he already spoke way back and said, rain is going to stop. So he's the one that prayed that into being that word. So he prayed over that, and it stopped. So, goodness, then he's praying now, and then we we understand what happens if you go right to the end of that. So what they pray for, came into being then they run off, then he has a he has a word from Jezebel, clear work is set to get to Allah when it so then he has a word which is quite interested in what the word is. So he prayed for it. He sees it he runs in it. Then he has a word from Jezza Belle and then he runs underneath the juniper tree and then he falls down as if dead then he says God I've had enough take me is pit balmy in it. What a human very dark text that one what a what a believer because he is a believer. A prayer warrior can flick from speaking to nature, stopping rain falling for three and a half years. Then command and it again through prayer on the top of the mountain. The rain falls. So you are looking at he didn't have the power to stop the rain. No, no, no. But you know, I mean, you spoke it. So he was given that his dream

Leya: 32:06

went alongside his words predestined plan. So if you man this is getting so deep now, first of all,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:16

if you look at the way that he prayed, he was praying what God was only going to do anyway. Oh, mate.

Leya: 32:27

But then, isn't he the one that built the temple as well and was like no.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:34

Solomon turn about Solomon's temple.

Leya: 32:36

No, the one that was like, where's your God? You must be asleep.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 32:41

Oh, no, you're talking about the altar. Yeah, that is that is before he pray for the rhyme. So it's a sight. Yeah. So so yeah. So there was 450 prophets of Baal. And and we clearly know what the text says. And it says that let's make so what he says is let's get ourselves some stones. Let's get ourselves some rocks. Let's get to cows. Let's get firewood We'll make two identical otters we'll put yours on their mind on them but I'm gonna win by the way.

Leya: 33:13

water as well doesnt he?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:15

Yeah, it says it gets he gets Yes. Okay, easy for you. So what we find now that's a very dark text because there we find very seriously this is a very serious talk where we now what we find there is what we call self harming. self harming is not a new thing. You can trace it all the way back to this one kings because it says that the false prophets are bow was slashing themselves prophets prophets, false prophets were slashing themselves and chanting and screaming and doing the devil dance and drawing blood so you can trace this self harming all the way back to there there was calling on their gods nothing fire did not fall in the lighter went, where's your God? Where's he gone? So he was taunting them and then made him worse. So nothing actually happened. So you can relate self harming to the dark side of things. The dark side, you know, it's a very difficult subject to talk about so far, very different human abuse on yourself. Because that's, that's not normal. That comes from somewhere else where you're driven by a different a different thought pattern. We've got to be careful as far as say that because my real chore is really trauma because you got to be careful because people will suddenly start getting frightened about the darker spirits when Yeah, that's another but we won't talk about won't talk about but where we are that that this is the same guy. Then he said we'll step back on watch. So he prayed for fire first, fire fell from heaven. It consumed the, the the cow it consumed the wood. It even consumed the stones. And what Leah was saying is that they dug a trench around the around the Um, the otter around the place that was doing the sacrifice on and they feel filled it out on a cover the sacrifice and the wood. They soaked it in wood, water, so it's never gonna burn. Yeah. So that's how I've got. Now that's a real big tech we're in here

Leya: 35:17

because Lucky's dream came true though, in in essence that he asked, he prayed to God for that thing to happen, which was a vision that he had, or a hope that he had and what happened dropped

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:32

in a word dropped in his spirit. Yeah. So in the book of Jeremiah 29, verse nine, it says, so do not listen to your prophets, your dividends, your dreamers, your fortune tellers, or your sorcerers who say to you, you shall not serve the king of you shall not serve the king of Babylon.

Leya: 35:55

So you better know who your dreams are coming from.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 35:58

Yeah, that's there's two sides of this. It's the it's the two sides of the crosses. And so you got false prophets. You got dividends, dividends, you know, witchcraft, magicians, all that. And then it says, Your dreamers, careful, your dreamers.

Leya: 36:11

So one of my friends that I was talking to about about this today, when I was doing my lunchtime research, she's a she's a very spiritual person. So we don't come from the same world. Yeah, in terms of our faith. But what I was saying she was agreeing with, yes, so the way that we were talking about it, we're using the same words, but we came from completely different standpoints. Our idea is that the universe will manifest things for you. But my idea is that God is the universe. Yeah. And God will manifest the things that you hope for. And that language, that language that God will manifest the things that you hoped for, came back to Now faith is the evidence of things unseen because it's things you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:06

hopeful, so faith. Sorry, I keep saying that over and over and over again. No, you got to keep because because this is this is what what's needed is to talk about subjects. Yeah. And the Bible says, Come let us reason together. So it's really important to talk because we can't work it out because the Book of Amos says this Amos chapter three verse seven,

Leya: 37:28

Book of Amos

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:29

Amos- thats not mens aftershave by the way, Aramark

Leya: 37:36

was a fast show character

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:38

is a real life prophet. Hey short this bloke this prophet should have a little beard locker. Like a little man with a beard. Yeah, I mean, in Tweed. Yeah, tiny little men have a beard like, we're all device.

Leya: 37:54

All right. All right. Listen, my name is Amos. What's he say?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 37:58

I've got a tractor. No, don't say that tractors running. They

Leya: 38:02

didn't exist then. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:03

Amos is not a farmer. Amos in the Bible is a prophet. Amos chapter three, verse seven, he is a prophet, he is a prophet. He's a good powerful man of God. I must chapter three, verse seven. For the Lord your God does nothing without revealing his secrets to His servants and prophets. So God reveals through servants we are servants is prophets. If you're calling yourself a prophet, you really got no you are a prophet, because that to give yourself a title, when actually to be fair. Anyone that is called tries to give the title back because if you are cold, you don't really want a title.

Leya: 38:44

How do you prove that you're a true prophet of God? That's what happened to Jesus at the beginning with the Prophet was that is a Pharisees and the Sadducees. They thought he was a false prophet.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:55

Yeah. So God reveals now Paul, again, Paul writes very clearly, this this that I write to you is a mystery, but by revelation, it is revealed to me. So is a revelation a a sense of faith and dreaming and Gods will come in into the you got lots of words

Leya: 39:15

is the destination the yes, the revelation, the destination?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:19

So you got dreaming, you got the pre you got faith? Gosh, it's quite a one of

Leya: 39:26

the questions that I had to ask and I wanted you to, perhaps shed some light on it. Okay. So what's the difference between prayers and dreams? If dreams are something we aspire to? And prayers are the things that we ask God for? Right, Jesus himself we aspire to that as well.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:46

Jesus said to the three in the garden, pray that you do not fall into temptation. So prayer is a form of protection conversation, speaking God's word, conversation the the word prayer err, you, although you can pray without moving your lips, because the Bible says, when you're fearful and you're tired and you're worried and you're doubtful, and you have no energy, the Spirit intercedes for you with groans and utterings. So prayer is a call a cry, or conversation between me and the Father. And so trying to define the difference, so prayer, what What is prayer, pray, if you're saying that. So prayer is a scripture. So if I pray Psalm 23, Lord, I thank you that you are my shepherd, Lord, and I thank you that you are the good shepherd and I shall not be on one Lord, and I thank you for not thanks and

Leya: 40:40

worship, though. Prayer is like I'm asking, so please, Lord.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:46

But when you're when this happened, prayer does not prayer. Your prayer is about protection. Prayer is about looking prayer is about guidance. Prayer is about redemption. So basically, when you look at prayer, prayer is a conversation. Yeah. But you can have a conversation with God without moving your lips. We can talk to God without having a vocal

Leya: 41:09

because he says stretch of Scripture where it says, Don't pray like one of those people on the streets clanging along like, oh, yeah, go on it go, don't go on about it. And then that backs up the thing in Ecclesiastes, when dreams increase, and words grow many.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:23

Now that is about the Lord's Prayer. Now, at the beginning, Jesus says this, he says, Don't stand on the street corners, babbling, and making a noise, like the Pharisees and the Sadducees. Just for the sound of their own voice. Then he says,

Leya: 41:35

his dreams. Words grow many. Yeah, it's vanity.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:38

Yeah. Then he says, Our Father aren't having any when he's finished that prayer. So he's given us that. So a prayer is a form of worship and exhortation to God. But then Jesus says to the others, and when you finish praying, don't be like the pagans that love the sound of their own voice. Right? Okay. It's, it's like, being a card and it being a Christian, sometimes it's really difficult trying to walk on the right path is lovely. And it's nice and flat, sometimes all I mean, but sometimes it's, I think, what confuses it, as well as the language words might stay the same for many years, and then a word is taken. And then the word has another meaning. And it changes both chambers. So and it changing the world uses the certain word. And you're so being a believer, you're always, always in that position of going, God help me Can Can you help me today? So visions are always so what do we have? We have visions, we have drains, then we have the interpretation, Daniel, he interprets the dreams and the visions of the king. Now, I've gotta be honest with that, that one makes me you know, a little bit wobbly. wibbly. To think about that, because what I'm about to say, so right. So you've given me a vision or a dream, right? Tell me what this means. So you've, I'm not asking, because I'm like, if

Leya: 43:08

this means I'm floating down a river of custard, I'm eating a doughnut. There's,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:13

you're gonna be fat, and you're gonna drown in cash. There's, that's the interpretation of

Leya: 43:17

bubbles, and chocolate factory, I find biomed skills.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:22

Unbelievable. Okay, what's it mean? I lost weight. I say simple. So you got Daniel, and the king. The king says, I'm troubled. None of my magicians, none of my interpreters. Now my source was no one can interpret this. So God gives you the ability to open up the fabric of the interpretation. Because no human being can do that.

Leya: 43:47

Then they say in it. It's quite a. It says we couldn't work it out. So we just started doing what we thought was right. Can't find the bit now. But it does, it says,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:59

But Daniel says the writing's on the wall. Yeah. So when you look at Daniel and its interpretation, and interpretation can only come from the Spirit of God. That that cannot they can only be so fit. What I'm trying to say is if so when someone says, like comes back to the prophets, what we have around at the moment, there are so many that are giving this word and that word, it will happen then, and when it doesn't happen. God gets the blame when actually you're on mute, you're a magician, or you're a diviner or you're a sorcerer. And it hasn't come true because it's not the will of the Father, because dividends and false prophets and dreamers and magicians cannot understand and cannot interpret, interpret to appreciate what God has for the world or it is a gift

Leya: 44:51

because it might be that you have you ever dream that doesn't coincide with what God's dream is. God's plan is For you, exactly. Therefore, that dream doesn't come true. And you think, oh god.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:05

Yeah, no, no, no. So it's very difficult. It's

Leya: 45:08

really good. There's really good. There's a really good quote where it basically says, Yeah, we just decided that we would decide what we wanted to make out a bit. Because yeah, and that's when David David, David or David David comes in and goes, No, I'm going to interpret your if

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:27

you're still in that you're in Daniel, he goes, one year. Yeah. But then we have Genesis 31, verse 11, we got to wrap this up in a minute. Because we're in come on where the 50 pay is going to blow. Okay, right. Genesis 31, verse 11, says, The, than the angel of God said to me in a dream, Jacob, I said, Here I am. So God sends angels in a dream. But they weren't really there. Can't drink, man because they

Leya: 45:58

actually did see the angel of the Lord, or you did see God innovate in real life.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:06

This is what happen. Patek, yeah, I'm just a bloody lovely

Leya: 46:13

bid from Ecclesiastes five, three, for a dream comes with much business. This This is literally our conversation now on for a dream comes with much business business of our chat. And a false voice with many words. On that one, yeah, that's been me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:30

Yeah. And then Daniel, chapter two, verse 19, the mystery was revealed. Now this is a nice one. Yeah. The mystery was revealed to Daniel, in a vision of night. Nighttime, yeah. So that sleep time. Daniel, blessed, a God of heaven. So while you're sleeping, while you're sleeping, God speaks. Doesn't that give you a comfort to know that God is deposit in things, words, or whatever you work this out. God is always speaking and showing and revealing. So he uses visions, dreams, prophets, he uses everything to get to what what's got to be given to you there is so much on this subject is enormous and weird. The

Leya: 47:18

in Acts an angel, there are two parts that are literally almost identical. And in the last days, it should be God declares that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh and your sons and your daughters will prophesy. And your young men shall see visions and your old men shall dream dreams.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:35

That's right. So they are they are speaking about the prophet of our jewel. So that they are they are strengthening of what he says now we're in yen times, the day of Pentecost, we've had an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. Is that Is that a good? Night's good? Yeah, no, it's good. And then

Leya: 47:50

in Joe to 28, it says, And it shall come to pass afterwards that I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. Yeah, right now all saved. You all laughed.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 48:00

Now, this refers to people, humanity that is not saved, but are in other religions, because within the persecuted church, there are people that are serving other foreign gods, this thing called favorite part, but this is what happened. This is what saved you anyway, exactly lie. This is what happened. So if someone is caught in another world religion without naming them, okay? Just being respectful here, what you are finding, because that is talking about now, the last day throughout the last day. So what this is what Jesus is doing, and it is documented over and over people that are in other religions that are really caught in the hardware stuff and never heard of Jesus Christ.

Leya: 48:43

Can I tell you, yeah, just keep your place split. So far, somebody at work said to me, the thing that I don't like about Christianity is that someone told me that I could be a Christian, but because my mum's not she won't be saved. And it's this part of the Bible, this part of the Bible. That proves Yeah, yes. And you are clanging Bell, you, you are an actual come to pass out to us. I will pour out my spirit on all flesh, your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your old men shall dream dreams, and young men shall see visions. Now pick up what you were saying.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 49:20

So in the persecuted church, we have people, human beings that do not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior and where they are they have no churches because the government's have flattened Christianity, terrible, they are asleep. And then suddenly, suddenly because I had God works he speaks and he gives them a vision and dream of himself. Or an angel of the Lord. There is so many stories documented with someone cuz you can't do this because you are asleep. Remember, you are not focusing you don't know who Christ is because you you you are in a country that is not Christian whatsoever. It is pushing everything else so you are asleep in your bed and your body He is in shutdown. And you are not thinking about the creative the God of Israel, you don't even know him. But he comes to you and a vision and a dream. And when you wake up, you are not what you was when you were in asleep. You are a believer, suddenly your eyes are open and you go, I've got to get out of this religion. And that is evidence of a thing unseen. So that knocks this knock something else on the head, it knocks the article, calm. So when you think about an altar call, they have their place. Yet Billy Graham's fantastic Vangelis, beautiful preacher. And he was he was a man that was gifted and he see uncountable people say via an altar call. But salvation doesn't sit, just an altar call. When God calls, he will call you when you're asleep. And when you're in a dark religion, when you're in a religion that is making you do unbelievable things. So you are not living holy or godly. You're not even thinking of the God of Israel. But in the last days, I will pour out my spirit on all flesh. Yeah, baby. So it doesn't matter. It's got church has got nothing to do with this because God is going, this is the last hour. This is the last moment, that person in in a ran them 1000s of people, I'm going to visit them tonight, why they are asleep, and why they have had a run of being all the stuff that goes on in their lives. I'm going to visit them tonight in their dream, and suddenly they are going to know that Jesus Christ is there a day? Yes. So that that looked then then this brings up a very big word on. So you can't have power over your own salvation. Because if you are asleep, you are not of this world. But you wake up as a believer in what believer in Christ Jesus, but there was no Billy Graham, there was no evangelist, which leads to salvation have a vision that God has given you. And you're only having that vision because he's given you the ability or you've got a dream. And he says, I'll pour out my spirit on all flesh. Yes. I tell you what, the church is just suddenly had the doors blown off it because it's got nothing to do with the preachers and the teachers. It's not about building with God. So God works through visions. God works through dreams. God works through God. He works in all this stuff. Yeah. Hey, Andre.

Leya: 52:27

Oh, mysterious God, wanting to get close to you. Oh,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 52:33

my days, we're out of here, we're banger for now that we're out. So visions and dreams, visions and dreams. How interesting. Can we

Leya: 52:43

stay strangers that it's seen as being a negative thing? This is the thing I think as a Christian as well. When you tell people, I'm a Christian? Yeah. Oh, you Dreama actually, it's a really positive thing. So I'm wanting to who's very positive on the 360 is that it's really positive thing to have a dream as long as you know where that dream is coming from.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 53:06

And that's it. Yeah. Where does it come from? Where does it come forward? Where's it going? Not go. There you are, wherever you are, you know, we try to keep things light. Women like to talk just to bring a bit of humanity into it. Because sometimes, we can get very, very, very deep and certain stuff, but that's alright. It's just to let you know that we are human beings. We are human beings, and God loves us. God will speak to you for your visions for your dreams. God will speak for the table God will speak for any area because God is everything. Very interesting subject layer. So wherever you are today, may God bless you in the mighty name of Jesus. Thank you for the 1000s of downloads across the earth. You can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify, I heart, radio, and so many other social platforms. Give us a notch. Give us a push. Give us a follow. We love you. We love you and we're dreaming. We're dreaming about food

Leya: 54:02

dreamer.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 54:03

God bless. Take care. Bye bye.

Close: 54:07

Thank you for listening to Elim church Swanleys latest podcast. You can find us on Spotify. Apple Music iHeartRadio Google Play Alexa Mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.