Welcome to everybody. Thank you so much for joining us on this podcast. Today you're joining myself Reverend Ben Cooper and Sondra Robson. As we dive into the persecuted church, the suffering Church, and today's title is very simply understanding the times and we are with Barnabas eight today. And we welcome you in the world of podcast and wherever you are across this earth. And we thank God for your life. And here we go, we're gonna go in for these 3540 minutes. Thank you that you're sharing everything that we do here. We really do appreciate it and may God bless you and strengthen you. You can find us on iHeartRadio and Spotify and Buzzsprout, Amazon music, and so many of our social platforms that we push these out on so we would encourage you to continue to share this stuff. But today we got Sandra with a Sondra. Good morning.
Sandra Robson:Good morning.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Lovely to see you today.
Sandra Robson:Yes, the half term is well, it's whizzing by it just seems time is going fast at the moment,
Reverend Ben Cooper:isn't it? It seems to be disappearing very.
Sandra Robson:Lots of things are happening in a very short time. And so today is an important day is the day that the world recognizes persecution across the world. The churches, actually two days it apparently so yes. I was listening to UCB today and they said this is an important day. And they had different people speaking. But so this is a particular time, just focusing from now on on the persecutor church. So I'm going to be focusing on what Barnabas ADA doing. And they have a suffering church action and awareness week from Sunday, the 30th of October, which is coming up this week, isn't it this Sunday for us? And then it's to Sunday, the sixth of November. So yeah, so Thursday today, and then, you know, then there's this week, and then on the sixth of November is another important date. And that's the prayer for the International Day of Prayer for the persecuted church, when the different organizations come together, and pray and have the stuff online and things. So today is an overview. But we'll just briefly go back on on what we were doing before life of brother Andrew, we were looking at an open doors founder. And he was known for his Bible smuggling. And I really appreciated the pod the evening. They did the webinar, and it is on YouTube now. So you can go and have a look at it. And it's lovely that we've managed to find God's smuggler book. And I found out some things that I was right about. I remember reading it, but I wasn't sure whether I had got the right you know, details because you know, when you've read something a long time ago, and then you read other things, you get a bit muddled with what belongs to, to what, and but one thing they said was how God had equipped him. And they were saying that, you know, they can't be like brother Andrew, open doors will continue with the things that he laid out about the Bibles and sticking to Scripture, and what they're about, but they they weren't, they aren't the same sort of person. God particularly chose him. And they were saying just how he was as a young person. And he was full of adventure. And he wanted to be a spy to go behind enemy lines. Really, they said that at the beginning. I wonder if it's in this one. She told me it told us that at the beginning of the book, there is a preface about you know, him wanting to do this. But it might not be in this one. It depends which you know which version but yeah, so he said you know that that was something he wanted to do. So all he's had this thing as a child built into him. And then as I say, he went to war. After the Second World War, he ended up joining the Dutch army. And you know, he was quite reckless in that, and he knew about God. But he hadn't actually sort of met God. He's sort of, you know, because of the bad things that had happened with the war. He was very disillusioned. That's how it comes across, if you read it, but then God really got hold of him because he did get he did get wounded. And, you know, reality struck. You know, that God sort of answered his prayer, because he said, you know, why don't you shoot at me, and he says about the yellow straw hat I've said about he did try to, he wants it to be easy to see, buy from the enemy, the enemy, because he's seen such horrible things happen. And so he said, right, well, I'm just putting a straw hat on, and they can just show me Yeah, good. So, you know, but but but God, God, but um, the thing that he said, and the thing that comes out in here as well is that he said, God said to go, he never said I was coming back. Oh, God said to go,
Reverend Ben Cooper:it's an interesting point. Yeah, just go, just go.
Sandra Robson:Because that's a Go Go. And he said, need people who are willing to go and leave the rest to him. Very true, which is very challenging, extremely challenging. But what they said was one of the guys who was talking, he said about how he put people at their ease, and how, how down to earth and how humble he was. And when this guy went over to do that, it was a bit, they're going to be a big prayer gathering and everything in Holland. And he was going to speak and is to do with open doors. And he was involved in that. And he said, he took him to his garden. And he started talking to him about all the beauty, all the things in his garden. So this guy relaxed, because he was all pent up about having to be in front of all these people and being next to brother Andrew and everything. And so he started talking to him. And he was saying, now this plant needs so much water, oh, you have to be careful about what that one, if you're looking after my garden, you need to make sure about this. And he said, it was so different. And so you know, and then he would say, right, come on, we're going to we're going to kneel before the Father and He literally did kneel, he used to kneel in prayer, in kneel inhaled in prayer. And he, he just said, like, this guy was saying, just simple things. You know, he would, he wouldn't pray, like, knowledge of stuff, he would just say, you know, Father, look after such and such, you know, this is that needs to happen, you know, this sort sort this out, dad, you know, and, and also what they said was how we were talking about, about how he broke barriers, and how he went and spoke to people in Hezbollah and paid people like that, that nobody else could do. But it was because of all those things that had happened previously. And they had seen and they marveled at, you know, what, what, what God did, and and who he was, and doors open for him literally things. But they were saying he was very, he was prophetic. Because he would say, we need to go here. Like he said, about going into China before China was an issue. And then he said, you know, about going, sort of, you know, being involved with it wrapped around Iraq, Syria, and you know, how, how God worked through Him to guide everything. So they were asking for prayers, that they would stay in his way. And they said that because he knew that, you know, he was getting older that there is a there is like a group or a group of people who came together and they posted in place. You know, I don't know what you call it, but anyway, principals or whatever. So anyway, that I found that I found that very, very interesting. And they were all going insane about the gods smuggler and how great you know, what an amazing read it is. For children and upwards. I mean, you know, I'm say, you know, from Yeah, what would you say? Well, I would say, for eight years Next up woods. I, you know, I think it would be okay. I mean, there are some, you know, gritty bits in it, but I mean children in year six, learn about World War Two. So, you know, it's not not graphic or anything like that, you know, but yeah, so I think yeah, it is well worth reading, very encouraging and very challenging as well. So back to this now, how challenging is this? Okay, so the title for the overview is warded disaster famine, disease, persecution, the suffering Church around the world today. And so, you know, it says, Here, we're using five categories across the earth, and that, you know, people are suffering. And that can be just suffering, as in, because a natural disaster has happened, everybody's affected, but then looking at Christians, how things are being weaponized. So how food relief has been weaponized against them, and how you know, medicine and how they are being maltreated and how things are being ordered towards certain groups and endings. So whatever the case, our brothers and sisters desperately need our prayerful support. So that's the main point. And they've said that they've looked at the global conflict tracker, which is managed by the Council on Foreign Relations. And the moment there are 26 wars, armed conflicts or areas of stability, instability across the world. So Ukraine, this conflict is also having a disastrous effect on food supplies around the world. Yemen, Ethiopia, Maya, Ma, Azerbaijan, and Democratic Republic of the Congo. And so those are major issues at the moment that are affecting Christians. Then we, you know, there's other bits in that, but I'm just giving an overview. Because we have talked about these things. As we know that there's an enclave in Azerbaijan, which is Christian, and this sadly, you know, it looks like ethnic cleansing, they are trying to they are sending messages warning these Armenian Christians in nug, Nagorno Karabakh, that if they don't go, they will be killed. And, you know, they they are Azerbaijan is saying, this is our land, and you don't belong here, and we want you out. And so there's been skirmishes, and there was a, you know, a real terrible, you know, military strike some a little bit in 2020, which was really bad. And then I started up again, recently, it started up again. But, you know, sort of stepped in some different countries stepped in and said, you know, there needs to be a ceasefire. But things are very, things are very, very dodgy there. And then we've had disasters, natural disasters in Haiti. Two days, there was a tropical storm, which wreaked havoc many church buildings lay in ruins, a disaster in itself for the nation, where the churches have vital centers of local the local community. And they also had an earthquake, which killed more than 2000 and destroyed 37,000 homes as well. So they had the earthquake first, and then two days later had the tropical storm and that was in August 2021. And they're still recovering from that. Then in the Philippines. There was a typhoon in the December and that damage 1.4 million homes. And then Congo, there was an earthquake January 2022. And then there was a cyclone in Madagascar gasca which is hit the country in two weeks. We don't hear a lot of these things. No, you don't use really, at least 111 people died and people were drowned.
Reverend Ben Cooper:We don't hear it at all
Sandra Robson:collapsed. So yeah, there's been a lot of things as we sort of talked about, you know, Nan times these birth pains, and it seems these things are coming closer and closer together. And, and then they talked about Lebanon, which wasn't a natural disaster. But that wasn't a bit of massive explosion, which affected lots of Christians because they lived near the poor to Beirut. And that's and COVID-19 also had a devastating effect, as well as they tried to like rebuild, and famine. around a billion people are without sufficient food to maintain their health and physical well being. about 49 billion are already facing famine, already near the point of death. And many foods, according to the World Food Programme, 49 million are already facing famine, already nearing the point of death.
Reverend Ben Cooper:So that's 49 million, and we have 67 million roughly people living in the UK. So when you look at the size of that no one should be hungry. There's so much food.
Sandra Robson:But it's due to you know, it's been so fascinated by the conflict in Eastern Europe. There's been extreme weather events drought, floods, cyclones, plagues of locusts. Biblical, isn't it? Yeah. When you look at when you read out, it's so yeah. So in times, yes. Showing time. And this is what I was talking about understanding the times understanding the time and having a right understanding and and not getting despondent about things, but not having a false hope that things are going to get better, because they're not going to get better. Yeah. And if they do seem to get better, or watch out, because that's definitely on the doorstep. So yeah, there's a
Reverend Ben Cooper:lot happening isn't there. And we can see this through the British Parliament, all the things that are happening in the government or the things that are happening in the capital markets in the finance markets, and everything is just up and down and spiraling and crashing them. So we're told all this. Yeah. So it's really important that the church understands the signs of the times. Yeah, to strengthen us to guide to enable us to stand to endure what lies ahead and for us not to be fearful.
Sandra Robson:Yeah. Which is what that Scripture is, by our endurance, you will gain your souls, but think is is this heavenly aspect. And we need to be bringing to people it's not about saving the world. We need to be good stewards. Yes. We need to look after things. Yes. But we cannot save the world. It's impossible. God is the one who is suffering, and overall, and he created the world. And he knows when it will work, why it's around and for how long and everything. And, you know, and we know scriptures are being fulfilled. And we know he says it will wear out like a garment. Yeah, it will burn up in flames, you know, and there will be a new heaven and new earth but so, you know, it is very, what's the word? Presumptuous, it's getting towards the Tower of Babel. Without what we're saying that definitely you're gonna save the world and everybody's scrambling to do things. The planet will have no benefit and will actually cause more harm to these people here.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Definitely. We're seeing
Sandra Robson:here I mean, as he said, as Patrick Sook, who do who is the, the the founder of Barnabas, he says, pray for discernment, you know, because and don't get caught up in the things that you see going on. You know, you know, and don't be taken by you must love your neighbor. What comes first love the Lord your God with all your heart with all your soul with all your mind and then Then cover your neighbor but we're getting accused of not loving our neighbor because We're not giving money out for the to the environment or whatever else, it is the latest thing, and we're being, you know, but we got to get it the right way round
Reverend Ben Cooper:is, when you're talking about save the planet and all that, that net zero, the biggest drive that we've seen is to save the planet Net Zero to get the new values down houses this that completely compliance, and it's all it's all pressing towards saving the planet when the Scripture says, you know, very clearly very clearly. So if the if the church would to study and preach and look at in times, we would understand the signs of the times. But there are a lot of believers literally grabbing, doing what a lot of doing tree hugging and all that sort of stuff, save the planet. But if I was to study creation, and the rapture of the church, I would understand what is going to happen. That the UN as you're saying, and as what we're looking at here, there are many signalers, plagues, famines, wars, rumors of wars, persecution, persecution To signal what the end the birth pains of the end, so many Christians.
Sandra Robson:Yeah. So the pressure of when I say these things, you know that I'm being unkind I'm not caring are not loving,
Reverend Ben Cooper:because we've been brought up in a church that is looking for revival in a so westernize stadium effect when actually, when you read the Scripture, it says famines, wars, rumors of wars, desolation, children rise in against parents, lawlessness, famines, plagues and persecution. Yes. So the church needs to preach in time. We are in the preparation of the bride. Yeah. Yeah. Preparation of the bride. Yeah. And people are hungry for we're referring now to, to answers. God, where are you helped me Leave me. So we are living in very powerful time. So the persecuted church is the is the indicator.
Sandra Robson:So, you know, I'm not saying I mean, as I say, I do agree that, you know, I will tell children, you know, when I'm teaching, yeah, we need to look after things. We need to look after things. We need to not waste things. It's good that, you know, the ingenuity of man that we're finding new ways to do things, that's not bad. But when it comes to restricting and having to do certain things, then that's, that's not good. And I'm just helping people. But anyway, that's my opinion. Okay. And look at the Scripture, you know, being looking at Luke 21. And, you know, because I'm concerned for my brothers and sisters, and what's going on with them and what I see and how God is moving through that, and they're not interested in that they're interested about Lord give me my daily bread. Yeah, where's my daily bread coming from? And you know, and then the funny
Reverend Ben Cooper:should say that Sondra, there's a picture I've just clicked on online. It was I think it was in was it open door I just flicking through the persecuted church ministries. Financial say that there's a guy squatting down with a big box next to him. Yeah, with Bibles in it. All right. And it's like, they've just turned up a big box of Bibles. And he's like, almost devouring this Bible that it's like, and that these these Yeah, just so grateful. Yeah, just so great, so grateful for a Bible
Sandra Robson:that and thought, you know, the food, just that they've been given us a little bit of food, and water, and they're on their way worshiping the Lord about that. And, you know, we'll be talking about a few of the different projects. So let's get back to this. And that's not good. But anyway, so 20 million people are at risk of malnutrition in the Horn of Africa and neighboring East African countries, because of persistent droughts that have led to crop failure and death of livestock. Wow. In northern Nigeria, Kenya has experienced failure of four rainy seasons in a row. It's the worst drought in 40 years. Other badly affected countries are to booty Ethiopia, Sudan, and Somalia. And then, Christians, as I said, Suffer extra deprivation because of their faith in Jesus, already among the most impoverished and vulnerable to disaster. They are often pushed to the bottom of the list when it comes to receiving aid or excluded altogether. A family of starving Christian converts in Sri Lanka, were deliberately given food content I noticed with rat droppings. A desperately hungry pastor in India was denied food aid and authorities telling him to pray to Jesus if he wanted something to eat, displaced chin Christians in my Omar had been left out of plans made by the country's military government to distribute International Funded aid. So, you know, that is as really serious. You know, and as I say, I know we're facing difficulties, but on a scale, ours are much lighter, you know, then what these people are dealing with. And you know, I just thank God for my daily bread I really do when I read these things, and then disease COVID 19 pandemic, the church in India has suffered the loss of more than 20,000 to two sorry, 2000 pastors and Christian leaders to COVID-19. To compound the grief for their family and friends, many churches and ministries were left leaderless, some have been forced to close Christians in the past suffered a similar desperate situation, like famine, disease does not discriminate on the basis of religion. Yet statistically, Christians are likely to be among the poorest in society, and therefore cannot pay for medicine and treatment. This is the case in India, Indonesia, Maya Mars, Sri Lanka, to give just four examples, and Kurdistan and to Mannix to Turkmenistan impoverished Christians earning their living by casual labor, were also among those to suffer most from locked down and other restrictions on activities. And so it gives a list there of places Albania I'll go on gola, Armenia, Bangladesh, Botswana, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Chad, Democratic Republic, Congo, Egypt, sua sponte, Ethiopia, Georgia. So 40 countries and Uganda, India and Indonesia, Kenya, Lebanon, Madagascar, Mali, Mozambique. Hi, Omar, good abelia list is endless. Yes. So. But on the upside, you know, Barnstable A's were there, and they have provided for all those places, which I just spoken about. So thank God for that. And they show a picture here, where they are providing the AIDS.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Look at that. Amazing.
Sandra Robson:Yeah. So and, and of course, you've got refugees now fleeing to these countries where they're there. Now, there are problems. And so they've also found Afghan Christians there and being able to be able to help them and yeah, so. Um, and then another form. So we've been through the war, disaster, famine, famine, disease, and now we're on to persecution. So China, and North Korea, and how the, the, the disease or COVID has affected them, then allowed to hold in person services. And now because of the crackdown on the online stuff, they can't live stream either. And North Korea, this is interesting. I didn't know this. I mean, they said that they knew that although the 40 said there wasn't any COVID there the was. But then apparently in June 2022. The authorities also admitted the existence of another widespread illness and intestinal problem. And it's thought by the international health experts that it could be typhoid or Carla really. Yeah. So serious. So and that is, well again, because they're, you know, impoverished and not being, you know, they've not got good, good nutrition, they're on everything. So, and there's no churches to provide or to seek help for that. So yes, And so then saying that the, the there's been an increase in infectious diseases, malaria, tuberculosis, to name but a few. Yes and then so where they're committed to the Lord Jesus Christ and governments, authorities, terrorists, religious extremists, communities, neighbors, even family and friends and those meeting out different ideologies and belief systems such as Islam and Islamism, communism, religious nationalism, and increasing secularism are all bringing pressure on Christians. So we have Islam bringing pressure, and we know about Afghanistan and how that's reason number one, and there, but the amazing thing is they're estimated a 5000 to 8000 Christians are in Afghanistan. Wow. We sadly we also know that the Taliban are going house to house searching for them, and also looking at mobile phones to see if there's any Christian data on them. So and then in Iran, we know that there's been revival there. And that it's, the authorities do not want people worshipping in Farsi, which is Persian, which was the language you know, before they took over there was the, the, yeah, so traditional language and they don't want them speak that. So and people who speak Farsi are people who have converted from Islam and, and then the main targets of persecution. And then we've got Saudi Arabia, Maldives, Mauritania, Somalia, and other other places. Where we know you know, Islam is very strong and we talked about that with about the holidays and people going on holiday on these things. Azerbaijan and you know, the Central Asia, a Kurdistan, Kurdistan. Could could, apologies, trying to get my mouth round these Kurdistan, Kurdistan, and then it's yeah, this is so
Reverend Ben Cooper:difficult to pronounce.
Sandra Robson:Chi. Chi. Stan, and to Turkmenistan. I know that a new Becca Stan,
Reverend Ben Cooper:yeah. Okay. Well, we'll we'll graph that.
Sandra Robson:Yeah. So, yeah, we know there are lots of places we've got communism in China. And we've got dictatorship in North Korea, Vietnam, Laos, Eritrea. And we've had coos in my Omar and unrest in Sri Lanka. You know, people wanting a particular religion or India. Yeah. So, but sad that he says, After all, that he says, the church in the West does not in general experience persecution, though opposition from dominant ideologies of secular humanism, could yet turn into fully fledged persecution. Christians need to be spiritually ready for the suffering and opposition that may appear in years to come looking to our suffering brothers and sisters around the world for encouragement. So he says, We need to look to those stories of encouragement. And be careful about false teachers preaching false hope, and giving away to fear. And Jesus says that he doesn't want them to succumb to either a false hope or faithless despair. And he offers comfort. But, you know, we need to be ready for these things. So, he then said, you know, this is the what the main thing is, is Luke 21. Yeah. And he says, from the site, so the teacher while verse seven, so they asked him saying, Teacher, but when will these things be and what signs will there be that these things are about to take place? So concerning. Now, then in times, and he says, Take heed that you do not, you're not deceived for many more come in My name, saying I am he. And And then verse 10, he says, Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. And then verse 11, and there will be great earthquakes in various places and famines, and pestilence and there will be great fear, and great signs from the heavens. But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and persecute you, delivering you up to synagogues and prisons, you will be brought before kings and rulers for my namesake. And we know that's happening. But we also know that God's you know what Jesus said, he said, Therefore settle it in your hearts. That's first of all, to you not to meditate beforehand, on what you will answer. And we know from a lot of testimonies that people have just prayed, and God has given them amazing words to say to judges, yeah, and hoping for God, and all sorts of people. And that has really, you know, changed things. I mean, some have been martyred, but some have been set free. And they've gone on to preach the gospel. And they've those people who witness that have come to Christ as well. mazing really powerful. Shandra. So I always want to balance things. Yes. Not that I'm saying, you know, like, he says, I'm not got false hope. But within it. God is at work, our heavenly Father, he is he is at work and he is suffering. And he says, you know, then it says, you know, about being betrayed by parents, brothers, relatives, friends, and that we know is happening with, especially through Islam
Reverend Ben Cooper:as a global thing now there, isn't it? Even if even if you strip out the world religion, lot we're looking at. It's everywhere, isn't it? That we are seeing on the platform of life, the rise for the forerunners of the Antichrist, aren't we? Yeah, we can see Can't we desolation we can hear we could read in a plague wars, rumors of wars, the ungodliness, the lawlessness, everything that that speaks very clearly about what you're saying. So it's global now, isn't it? You know, we're also that that that quiet drum that's very carefully being tapped is cashless society, very interesting, the place that one of the places our work, from a certain day will not be taken cash, a general organization will not be taking cash, if you want to buy food drink from the cafeteria, cash less. So we are creeping very quickly.
Sandra Robson:Because then there's a control and you know, you can decide who you want to let you have access and who not. Because everything with the pandemic,
Reverend Ben Cooper:pandemic, yeah, it's everything.
Sandra Robson:You can go read, you read, you can't go. And so it says, You will be hated by all but for my namesake, but not a hair on your head will be lost by your patients, possessions, souls, which is also in one translation by your insurance, you will gain your souls. So saying, you know, you know, you've trusted in me, and, you know, you will go to be with me and, you know, I, you know, I will never leave you, I'll never forsake you. And you are mine. And I'm all for eternity. So, yeah, and he's just saying, you know, to take courage and strength in these days, and there is so much in here. I mean, you know, when I look at it, you know, each time I mean, yeah, it says it is encouraging, you know, what, what's in here, the the Bible, you know, we're so, so much yeah, that we can look at and be encouraged and know that our brothers and sisters be encouraged, because as he says, We ought to be channels of God's blessing in our communities. And this is our brothers and sisters who are being persecuted. That's what they want to be through our prayers and our love and care for one another. We can be salt and light, to make known the gospel by the living godly lives and being countercultural. That's what God is calling us to each one of us. And our brothers and sisters are praying for us and were to be praying for them and And, you know, it says about some may feel a call, as we've talked about during the summer to be part of putting wrong wrongs, right and in justices by becoming a lawyer by, you know, being a voice for the voiceless getting involved in one of these organizations, and get getting involved with politics, although people say, Oh, no, don't. But there is a need for this assault to be everywhere, you know, the church, that Christians are needed in politics, to give that other voice to give that other narrative. And we need to pray for people who are leaders. And so Jesus says, Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. And he says, you know, he will keep us. Thank you. So, yeah,
Reverend Ben Cooper:lots going on.
Sandra Robson:Yeah, have a look at, you know, Luke 21. And if you are in this, you know, this in the UK, you can get hold of Barnabas Fund materials, I'm going to be looking at their devotional in the next couple of weeks. Well, for next week, and see how I get, you know, each day to look at what they're saying, because we do want to be equipped, and I do take strength, from what I hear. Our peer persecuted brothers and sisters are doing by you know, by God's grace has he has enabled them to stand in tremendous pressure. And so that gives me, you know, courage and strength, as well. So, so there you go. That was what I felt we were to look at today. You know, Jesus said these things would happen, but we're not to be dismayed. Take hope and courage from the now suffering church as things get tough for us.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Amen. Thank you. Jesus
Sandra Robson:That is my conclusion.
Reverend Ben Cooper:Yeah, Sandra. We thank you very much. We can't go We're off. We're off. We're off. Wherever you are. Today. You've been joining Sondra myself, we thank you so much. You can find all this on Spotify. I Heart Radio, Amazon music and so many other social platforms that we are pushing these out from and also you can go on to release international Barnabas aid you can go into Voice of the Martyrs CSW open doors that the list is endless and advocacy. We haven't even looked at that maybe one time we'll look at that as well. That other ministry that we just the door opened and we just see that a few weeks ago. So wherever you are today, we just pray that you will just seek God because we are in end times but all is well. Because He is king. God bless. Thank you very much, Sandra. Take care. We'll see you soon. God bless. Bye bye.
Close:Thank you for listening to Elim church Swanleys latest podcast. You can find us on Buzzsprout Spotify, Apple music, iHeart radio, Google Play, Alexa Mixcloud, Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.