Simon Pinchbeck: 0:00

Okay, we're back across the mics. And, yeah, today, Ben I just, we just had a feeling that the Lord was we're still in January.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:10

We're still in good old January.

Simon Pinchbeck: 0:13

Because Because January is a long month and it's a long month long month, and it's a dark month. So we're still in general and just feel that the Lord's just dropped in going. How about explain a bit about a new birth? A new heart about Whoa, you know about Yeah, so the Scripture we're going to really sort of look at first of all, is John 3:3 ben. But John 3 is just an amazing chapter. I'll just loose looking at it. I didn't even it didn't even click, but further down, is one of the most scripture famous scriptures, probably on planet Earth on planet Earth. But John, 3:3 ben. Powerful.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 0:57

Yeah, the Gospel of John, it's you like you said, it's really interested, interesting in how all of a sudden we've been guided to the Scriptures. And it's John, John, John, John, isn't it and you've got this one today, and it's about being born again. And as you said, so rightly so as you go further down in the Gospel of John, especially chapter 3. It's just throwing open the doors, isn't it?

Simon Pinchbeck: 1:18

It's just crazy. So, so where we have Jesus has been approached, bitten by this by this fella or excuse or Nicodemus, right, Nicodemus, so and this guy this felon, cadenas is no ordinary He's no ordinary Joe is he is he's well oiled. He's a roller he's he's a ruler at he's also a religious leader. Yeah, he knows that he knows the scriptures to that point all over the place. It fast twice twice a week. Do you know anybody does. He prays two hours a day this fella he's a he's got religion all over him Ben

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:02

Hes a real warrior

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:04

religion all over him.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:05

He is really doing this. He's really pushing it isn't he, you know, there was a Pharisee and his name was Nicodemus, who was a member of the Jewish ruling council John chapter three verse one straight away but as Simon says, This man was really in it. He was in it to win it wasn't. Educated, come from good stock, great thinker, great articulator

Simon Pinchbeck: 2:31

they'd be looking up to him as the religious light when as delight. Yeah. And so. So he can't he does a bit of a sneaky one, because he you don't want to be seen in

Reverend Ben Cooper: 2:47

under the table, crawling on his hands and knees. quite interested in first term. So we're in a gospel of John chapter three. It says he came to Jesus at night and said, Rabbi, he recognizes definitely, yeah, he recognize him as as rabbi or the way that you pronounce his only puts that. And but I find that quite fascinating that this man that was seen and he was known, and he had a lot of power and a lot of strength behind him, suddenly decides I've got to get the Jesus but I can't let anyone see me going to Jesus. Yeah, I can't, I can't be seen. I can't be seen to go to this. This man. I can't be seen to go to this. Is he the King of the Jews who, but something about him and there's something about him that took this, this man of notoriety of power and authority. And when I've got to get to Jesus, I've got to get to and I've got to speak to him. And I love that man. Because he done the back door. He went in the back window, he went in that he went in the or I'm gonna go I'm gonna go to the debt for dark. I'm not gonna let no one say me, I'll, I'll slip round this, I'll go this way. And no one's gonna capture me at night because I don't want anyone thinking that I won't go into Jesus because I know it all. And how many people are like that in religious context?

Simon Pinchbeck: 4:11

In churches, they're all over the place. My they you know that? A saturation point? That's what it is. But, but thing is with Jesus, so Jesus would have, I mean, he dismissed a lot of these religious leaders in our after book. But there was something about Nicodemus Ben and the thing I believe what was about Nicodemus was, Jesus knew his heart.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 4:35

That is the big one. Yeah, God knows Christ knows our heart. Christ knows everything. And even if we're coming to Jesus on the quiet, you know, we're still coming. We're still we're still making your way and how many people are there behind pulpits and ministers that have got to come to Jesus, but it's not my I've got to get to him. I've got to get how many people are on the other side of this lens. I'm on the other side of these mics and listening to this podcast as it goes out. You have got to get, I've got to get to Jesus. But I don't want anyone in my circle to know that. I'm going to Jesus. I don't want anyone in work to know that I'm going to Jesus and I want my family, my brothers, my my friends, gym buddies, drinking powers don't want anyone to know. I've got to get to Jesus. But there's something about that Jesus

Simon Pinchbeck: 5:26

is something drawing me to you know. And so I will, Nicodemus is. There's something about Jesus, he's obviously observed Jesus any. Yeah, and that's the other thing. I mean, he hasn't got he hasn't got YouTube, he got Wi Fi. Got all that sort of stuff. So he's at a forum about, so he's gonna sit there and listen to him. So you can imagine it probably be our I don't know, you'd probably you'd be. I don't know if this was before after the sermon on the mount. I'm not sure. But it would have probably been part of that or part of what listening to what Jesus got to say. wouldn't need Ben. Yeah. When you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 6:03

when you pull all this together, Nicodemus certainly knows Jesus. He certainly has come against him in in certain ways. He has certainly been in the arena, he has certainly heard him. So he knew he's not just going, I wonder who he was. He had observed him observed and watched him and how many people are doing that today? observed, Jesus heard about Jesus had a slight CONTACT WITH JESUS Sunday School upbringing, certain times ever. Yeah. Yeah, add some understanding of Jesus. But when your heart goes, I gotta get to Jesus

Simon Pinchbeck: 6:42

got to get to him. And you know, is the thing. So Jesus would have looked at him. And, you know, this could have been a trap. Easy, it could have been easily been a trap. But Jesus knew it wasn't because he knew is art. He knew his heart was seeking searching.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:00

I got to get to Jesus. Yeah. How many people are literally saying, I've got to get to Jesus. I've got to get I've got to get to Jesus.

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:10

And just on that point, you know, and it's in John again. Is his the lost sheep and and, yeah, so the lost sheep, Jesus would, has left all the others, but he's gone for the last year here. And this, you wouldn't say he's a lost sheep, because you wouldn't,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:28

because he's got the notoriety. He's got the skill set. He's got the understanding. He's got the academics. He is a top cheese.

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:36

Got it? Who's the big owner.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:40

But he is recognized that there is some things in the

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:43

money boom, you spend you times all his money.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:46

He's a real good role model to watch the church go unless he's a proper, he's a religious man.

Simon Pinchbeck: 7:52

You'd like him in your church

Reverend Ben Cooper: 7:54

hall. Yeah. Bring, bring bring those that never know. That was in biblical terminology. And it says he came to Jesus that night and said, Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher now for him to say that. Yeah.

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:10

We listened to him and day after day. Yeah. And

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:15

for him to drop that word in after Rabbi. We know he's referring to the other scholars, the others in the in the council, he is referring to the Jewish rulers around them. There would have been a discussion there would have been a conversation.

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:28

So we have heard, so most of them would have gone that what Jesus has been saying, I've been saying it for years.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 8:38

Oh, how many people and leaders have been going? I've been on the circuit I've done it for quite a number years. I've done it forever. It's nothing no, nothing. No, nothing. No, I've got this wrapped right.

Simon Pinchbeck: 8:52

Here's the thing is I've been doing that for years. When you hear people say that, Mike just will just but something but something. Paul Nicodemus Indian.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 9:04

But yeah, without a doubt, but when you when you actually start unpacking that scripture, even just in verse two, it says, He came to Jesus at night instead Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God for no one can perform the science you are doing, if God was not with him. So this man that has studied the Torah that is educated, that is right up the tree of all this stuff, suddenly has gone is hard as just exploded open and fault. This teacher is of God. There is something about him. That is very attractive that I've got to know what are Who are you Where have you come from, but in a clear line, he says for no one can perform. So he has seen the miracles he has heard the miracles, they've had their counsel, they've had their boardroom meeting, they've tried to work this Jesus out and no one can work him out because Isaiah says that very clear. Now Want, His ways are higher than our ways his thoughts are beyond our thoughts as high as the heaven is from the earth. No one can get our God. He is a mysterious God, but He reveals Himself to us. But Nicodemus in his boldness goes, I've got to find out who Jesus is. How many people are in this UK, setting in their workspace in their home life and their family and everywhere going, I've got to get the Jesus. And how do I do it? How do I get to jail? Don't go to church, you won't find Jesus there. You won't find them in English church, you'll find all the old

Simon Pinchbeck: 10:37

I'm Ben because bless her my my daughter in law who's who's born into into the Jewish faith. But yeah, don't go to the synagogue or anything. She just known as a, you know, calls herself Jewish, you know, she's had all sorts of things go on one thing after another has been going wrong. And she called me the other day, she called me when I was we were doing and she said, I need you to take me to church. Really? She said, I need you to take me churches. I said, why? She said, Because I just want some good vibes around me. I said, Wow. I said, you don't have to go to church. You don't have to go to church. I said, we'll have a chat. We will have a chat. We'll sit down and we'll have a chat. So we've yet to be able to chat but you know, but if you've if you think church was the answer,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 11:35

yeah. If you think that the establishment is Nicodemus was the establishment was the establishment and he realized that the establishment is not performing signs and wonders. The establishment isn't healing the establishment isn't doing anything. It's not working. It's not working.

Simon Pinchbeck: 11:53

So he's, he's Jesus as seen his whole Jesus has come to his home. Yeah. When the traitements entrance knob down, you know, but definitely there. And what did you decide to embed? What's the

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:11

Big Mac? What did he say? Let's see what he says. Come on. Jesus replied, I tell you very rarely I tell you that no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:27

What translation is that? You got it? I got the NIV Yeah. And in a lot translations, it will be truly truly but whenever Jesus said Verily, verily, or truly, truly, you know, something, you know, sometimes going

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:42

This is big.

Simon Pinchbeck: 12:44

isn't you know, this is all over the Bible in red. If you've got a Red Letter Bible,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 12:51

you're on it. Really interesting and it when you read that Scripture, Jesus reply, So Nicodemus comes to him, he replies, Christ, and he says, Very truly, I tell you, no one, no one can see the kingdom of God. Unless they are born again that froze religion at the door, completely, it completely, it froze everything. So if you are not born again and then we get into a real big heavy, it is heavy, it is deep bass light as well. What is balm again?

Simon Pinchbeck: 13:23

So Nicodemus is what is it that I use is called fuse. And he said, Look, you know, how can a man be born when he is old? Kenny entered a second time to his mother's womb and be born? Which is, you know, is obviously what he's trying to work out? And he said, and And Jesus answered, The Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water, and the spirit it cannot enter the kingdom of God. Now is just see this guy, right? And this this Nicodemus is for a whole all his life, he knows he use, you said it, he knows the Torah inside out back to front. It's got five bucks or the panty? Yes, Bob bookseller, Bob. He knows it. He knows it in Hebrew. He knows it in Latin. He knows in every inside out, or whatever. Yeah, but it's all in his head.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:20

That's the thing. It's knowledge. It's all and it needs to be revealed. It's not it's not revelation, or knowledge is it? It's like a religious teacher that teaches are already but actually doesn't believe

Simon Pinchbeck: 14:32

when it's like, learning when we used to do it these days, but when we used to learn our times tables, we used to have to learn parrot fashion, didn't we?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 14:42

Yeah, that's that's it so you're repetitive you're knowing it? Yeah. And it's just like the church when they when they read out the prayers when they go through the song and dance about with their services and all that it's already written out. So you can all you can read a service out, but to find allow Christ to be fully born again. It comes from the heart. And Nicodemus had everything under the sun in the religious packing absolutely everything. But there was something missing.

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:12

There was something missing Ben and Jesus. And it was his heart.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:16

It was his heart connecting with Jesus.

Simon Pinchbeck: 15:19

So when he's Jesus says, You need to be born again. You really got to have a new heart. Yeah, but

Reverend Ben Cooper: 15:25

and people to come what actually is that? What do you mean? Because when you read that scripture, we've read it 1000 times and every time you read it, it starts moving in a different way than it Jesus replied, very true, very, truly, I say to you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again. How can someone be born again, when they're old Nicodemus are surely no one can enter into a second time for their mother's womb to be born, Jesus answered. Again, he says that any what you said, very, Truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water, and of spirit.

Simon Pinchbeck: 16:01

And the interesting thing he goes on to say, Ben, is that you say you said, Jesus says this. I mean, this is a real chunk of red letter. And because Jesus is talking, yeah, yeah. And there's this is clear, solid doctrine, from Jesus and from Jesus. He said, Do not marvel that I said to you, you must be born again. He said, The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot where it comes from, and where it goes. So is everyone who is born in the Spirit? So what basically, do you think he's basically saying, Have faith you got to have faith because you can't believe just believe

Reverend Ben Cooper: 16:38

you can't the when you say what the wind does, because of the evidence from nature, yeah, but you can't see it. You can't see you can't see it. And you can't see how God moves and how God operates and how God sweeps through someone's heart and someone's life. But when you look at that text, the wind blows wherever it pleases, you hear it sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from, or where it is going. So is with anyone who is born of the Spirit? And then Nicodemus goes on there having the right conversation?

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:08

Because you've said the right dialogue yet? Yeah. Jesus,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:12

how can this be? He says, You are Israel's teacher Ji. So he's telling Nick damos,

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:19

this is the Israel's teachers, the teacher of the Jewish people.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:24

You understand the literature as in the written, you understand the Old Testament, but without the Spirit? It is meaningless. Yeah, no, it's

Simon Pinchbeck: 17:35

just, you've got Russian

Reverend Ben Cooper: 17:37

information, Revelation, not revelation. The Bible makes that very, very clear that God gives us God gives us revelation or knowledge and he, he stirs us in the Holy Spirit with inside of us. But when you look at that scripture, there is so much to grab from it. You are Israel's teacher, Jesus said, and you do not understand these things. Again, it is getting angry. Now it goes very, Truly I tell you, he says we speak of what we know. And we testify of what we have seen. But still, you people do not accept our testimony. He's referring to the disciples to the believers, he's referring you have seen it. You have heard it, but you, you still can't believe it. That is like religion. At the top, isn't it? Yeah, totally. You've got the Bible. You understand what the church is about. You've got a concept of it. But you're not spirit filled. And the anointing is not.

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:32

So you you might have been baptized. You may have been confirmed, you know, all the words to the songs. Yeah. You may even tired. Yeah, you go to church every Sunday. But you're not in a relationship with Jesus Christ because your heart is not chased your heart. Yeah, it's not changed.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 18:53

They're going into a deep one out

Simon Pinchbeck: 18:55

Billy Graham, who have been who are listened to he he makes me smile because he gives us a little example. He said if you can take a peek out of the mud Yeah, take it into your living room you can take it in the bathroom you can wash it down we'll get all the all the muck of it. You can spray it down with links of anti personnel you know and put him in your labor and we got to look at him look at a more piggies Yeah, yeah. He said open a door. He's gone back to the mud. He's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 19:29

gone back then a mad why religion is not changed. That's it the outside the outside looks, looks good. The outside looks good. The outside but then suddenly you are driven inside either you are for Christ or not for Christ, either you're born again or not born again. It's got nothing to do with about the amount of times you go to church. It's about do you believe? Do I believe? Yes, I believe Lord

Simon Pinchbeck: 19:55

See, been on my writing was saying Just because you've got a church, don't let your Christian does it. No, not at all. So, you know, it's like, not in any way, shape or form. You're in McDonald's most days and you don't make your hamburger does it? I don't know.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:12

I do spend a bit of time. But it's like, it's really important to understand church doesn't get saved. religion doesn't get saved. It is that predestination that Christ has called you before the foundation of the world. So God has already marked you God has already covered you. God is working through you. And the Bible says whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved. But you can't call on him until he's drawn you as your heart because it's your heart. So the outward movement

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:44

let's get it right. No man can do that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:46

No man can suddenly wake up in the morning to go I'm off to church today. Oh,

Simon Pinchbeck: 20:50

no man can can lead you to it. No man could God

Reverend Ben Cooper: 20:54

God speaks directly to you and God draws you to that. You can be religious, you can be a Nicodemus, you can be in church all your life, he can be taken to Sunday school you can, you can be you can be whoever you think and however you want to look as a believer but and it's got nothing to do with sin has got an idea of lifestyle. It's got nothing to do with that is it? It's your heart. It's your heart because the Bible says all have sinned and fallen short of your glory.

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:20

Yeah, all of a sudden, yeah, you're just a drop from it. So

Reverend Ben Cooper: 21:24

are you thirsty? Are you thirsty? Isaiah 55 It says, Come to me. It's thirsty, Simon. i Your thirsty world. i Your firstly, Ben, do you want me? I want you Lord, I want you over and above the religious order. I want you above, above all this stuff in church. You know, God is speaking to people outside of church. God is speaking to people outside of religion. God is moving through this nation God is stirring yes

Simon Pinchbeck: 21:52

to because religion is such a barrier. It's it's such a barrier to Jesus, a barrier to your heart.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 22:01

He's addressing Nicodemus and if you if you got a Bible, and you turn to the book of Joel capital, and Acts chapter two as well, where they're making it very clear, it says in the last days, God is pouring out His Spirit on all people we are living in in days. So you don't need to get to church to find Jesus you can be wherever you are, and when God is gonna call you. And when what happened, this is how I believe this happened. salvationists now my mind looks at this and our heart understands this. No man can choose the father, the father chooses the ones that the God of Israel calls us anoints as it is. Salvation is given as a gift. So he calls us and what happens, I believe, to our body is that we, when we say, I've decided to follow Jesus, what literally that is, is that the inner you is letting your flesh you know that there is a holy God and your body is just capturing up to what God has already done. The body doesn't have any power to say, I've decided to follow Jesus because God has already done the inner work. And all you are doing is just making a clear statement to the world and your natural body is going yeah, he's real. He's real.

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:14

You which is your real body, which is your spirit. Yeah. I mean, you can still refuse. Yeah, you got still got a

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:21

choice. We say it all the time. It's like, it's like so so why do you persecute

Simon Pinchbeck: 23:27

me? Yeah,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 23:28

on that road. You know, there are many people with no intention of following Jesus. But when Jesus hits that button, when your life lines up when you walk up the path of life, and you walk up to that line in the sand, where if you see that sand and on the 23rd of September 2025 That's when Ben will be born again. When his body hits that point. Suddenly you're you are awake to what God is doing. Because no man has the power to go. I want to follow him here we people reject him, but the calling starts from within the calling starts from God. That's why it's a gift of salvation. Can't do it in the flesh, man, and you can't make yourself born again. nicknames are gonna can't I can't do that. You can't do

Simon Pinchbeck: 24:18

that. You can't do that in the flesh. I mean, it's it's you might as well say you had a new car parked in your drive right? Brand new car delivered? Yeah, you love that you polish the on the outside you What do you got inside the car, you lovely new car smell. You've gotten a manual out. This is great. And you started reading what it can do and then you started memorizing it and then maybe underlying, cutting bits out but unless you drive the thing, unless you drive it, you've got it. You've got to be in it. You got a harder thing. Yeah. So here we are in in in John free. And Nicodemus is wrestling with this. And then Jesus comes out with this He comes out with the one of the most the greatest lines in the Bible, Danny to Nicodemus, he's talking to Nicodemus here.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 25:10

Yeah, he's talking to Nicodemus and he just dropped that line than he was, he must be. What's he saying? That's what I've got in my spirit in a moment that that Christ is saying to this teacher, Nicodemus, you've got to be born again. You can't have all this knowledge. You can't get into heaven. You can't get to the Father, unless you come through me.

Simon Pinchbeck: 25:35

And then he had similar destiny. Then he goes, he goes, For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. And then he goes on and says, For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved. Amen. And Nicodemus by this time, must be realizing this is a real deal. This is this is the real deal.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 26:06

This is it. There is no other way. But to go through Christ. John three, one sec. For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son Nicodemus, he's talking to the Son, the Son of the living God, and Christ has given him clear instruction. Nicodemus, do you want to follow me? Nicodemus, you've got the intelligence, you've got the notoriety, you've got the whole stretch, but you're missing the most important thing. You're missing. You're missing me. You're missing me because I am the Way the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father at you can't come through just the Old Testament Scriptures alone. You've got to be born again filled with the Holy Spirit. The Torah that you mentioned earlier, the law, everything. That's not sufficient. You've got to have the Lord as your Lord and Savior, you can have all the knowledge you can have all the wisdom, you can have all that, but without without being born again. That is the Lord how do I do that? How do I do that? Christ does that without us realizing that it's done.

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:15

Free simple. You confess that you're a sinner. So yeah, is a deal. Confess that you're a sinner like we all are? Yeah. admit and confess. Repent of that. Sin, which is just a simple word to say turn away from it.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 27:36

Yeah, Lord, Father, forgive me for I've sinned and fallen short of your glory. Help me. And then

Simon Pinchbeck: 27:41

just accept Jesus Christ into your life as your Lord and Savior. So So you are we have people in church who do all the churchy things, but the one thing they haven't done, Ben, is come across. Grace,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:01

correct cross is central. Because when I come to the cross, I come to Jesus, when I come to Jesus, I come to the Father. And it is Christ that converts us if we can use that word, it is Christ that that gets us into that born again, position position where we can go to heaven, we can't do it ourselves. Nicodemus says, I can't go back in history and go back into my mother's womb. That's impossible. What do I do? What do I do? What do I do, Lord? What do I do? You got to be born again. Yeah, but what? How? When? How can I do this? What do I do, Lord? Believe in me? How many people are in church at this moment in time? How many people that are in religion, that have this, this waiver of an understanding but are not completely born again, and it's not bad speaking in tongues? It's not about all that evangelical stuff that goes

Simon Pinchbeck: 28:55

on the smells and all that sort of stuff. It's about a cross. It's about

Reverend Ben Cooper: 28:59

repentance. What did Jesus Repent and be baptized?

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:04

In? In John 842, what did he say?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:08

John 830 toe or you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Simon Pinchbeck: 29:12

You come across any truth and the truth will set you free, set you free, set you free from all that nonsense that you've been getting involved with. He says, Give it to me.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 29:22

And you recognize that Lord, I've fallen. I recognize I've not been good to their recognize, Lord, I've been angry to that recognize I've been frustrated today. You know, the subject of being born again. Jesus tells him You must be born again. The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear it sound but you cannot tell where it comes from. So it's not like going to the shop at a church and going right in that cabinet. I'll have that glass of bone again, please, I'll drink it is Christ and the Holy Spirit and it's the sanctified sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit. Christ is the atoning sacrifice. It is the cross of Calvary, through Jesus Christ. is through the living Word of God. So it's not any act that we have to do it's

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:05

our pleasure set out because you're you're in present right it's amazing it's not through anything you can do this you can do you can't work you can't pay them or how much money you can't buy it. You can't pay it

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:21

who wants to buy the gift Simon the salsa coming back to him tonight he's a focal point but that's a really interesting point in it because they said to him, You can't buy the gift of the Holy Spirit. So again,

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:34

and again as another one who was baptized he was baptized because he thought he was going to

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:41

gain but and use it for his

Simon Pinchbeck: 30:44

it was a worthless baptism because the motive was wrong the heart was wrong

Reverend Ben Cooper: 30:50

to that so that there's a lot in this is it now that we've covered a lot of Graham really really quickly and your mind is almost spinning with all this stuff because when you look at this this man and the process for like from verses one in John three down to we've just read out down to like maybe a roundabout there that that is hours and hours and hours and hours and hours lifetimes of studying alone, isn't it and you're just trying to get your mind and your eyes focused on what's going on in this man was a quick can't say it enough this man was he was a high flyer in the church it will be like looking at anyone and these enormous denominations right at the top seeing everything happening but nothing within just empty vessels how many there are that are empty vessels glass glass bars is white. All show shown

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:46

out so they've got a ropes they've got all of all the glitz and the glamour the got order. Yeah, order stuff. But see what he says when he finishes off with nicotine?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 31:57

What one you in?

Simon Pinchbeck: 31:59

18 have gone back up to the first one. So Jesus says He says, as he finishes off this passage, obviously, you know, this is sort of just a small snippet of why you're probably actually said, and he spent hours with him probably. But he said, he ends up saying in the in the John three act. And he says he who believes in Him is not condemned, but he does not believe is condemned already. Because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation that the Light has come into the world. And men love the darkness rather than light. Because their deeds are evil for every one practicing evil hates the light, and does not come into the light. Lest is deed should be exposed. And this is this is the killer bit at the end, he says, but he does the truth comes to the light that his deeds may be clearly seen, and that they have been done. been done in God. So what you're saying is, yeah, what ever you done, whatever you're done, whatever. Whatever sin you committed, bring it into the night, bring it into a light. That's what he's saying. And

Reverend Ben Cooper: 33:17

so Jesus says, I am the light of God. So you bring it into the library into the open. It's now to the cross, and then it's gone. It's gone. It's gone as quick as you could talk him to say about it. It's now to the cross. It's gone. It's finished. It's over. But he's already nailed to the cross before it's been committed. But through the confession of saying, father, I've sinned. Lord, I've made a mistake, Lord, I have lived wrong, I've acted wrong. I've not been forgiven. I've done all this sort of stuff all that as soon as our lips bring this out, and our heart brings it up. It's gone. It's gone. Because it's gone already to that degree. Because the cross has canceled out. The blood has washed it out. Jesus has washed it out. Oh, there may this is a big text in it. It's like

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:04

it's like so say you had a family member or a child in your family and you know that they've done wrong, you know that they've stolen from you, you know that they've been you. They've been in the old cookie jar. They've nicked a lot of money or whatever, you know that they've done. And all you ever want is for them to come to you and God. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm sorry. And you in your heart you you've you've forgiven them for it already. It's

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:33

already done.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:35

And that brings us to the prodigal son, doesn't it Ben because

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:39

That great story.

Simon Pinchbeck: 34:40

Yeah. And it just emphasizes the fact

Reverend Ben Cooper: 34:44

the father is always waiting for the son or the daughter, the believer to go. I'm on my way home. How many people are out there at this moment going? I gotta get back to Jesus because there are many lost men that are lost knowing They are born again. This is another side to this being born again, been saved by Jesus, as the prodigal son is that but leaves the Father's house because the ivory tower looks a little bit more glittery. You know, the church hasn't really given me you, him her what we really need because of the scriptures Not really. So there are many believers, many believers that are blood, washed, sanctified, children are living God, nothing can separate you from the love of God, that's really important. But, but because the church in the UK honestly believe this hasn't delivered what it should have delivered. Many people have left the sheep pen, because they're hungry. And the hunger hasn't been fulfilled, not because Jesus hasn't delivered. But the instrument known as the church hasn't taught and helped how to people to live, to give their life to Jesus to complete surrender, and people of all ages, all walks of life. I honestly believe have done a prodigal son.

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:07

But I think you're absolutely 1,000,000% Right, and you're going down the right lines with this one, because I honestly think that there's also been a judgement. Yeah. And people are living in guilt. Yeah. And and Jesus doesn't want to live in guilt, you will know the truth and the truth will set you free.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:27

John 832. Again,

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:29

the enemy wants you to live in guilt, and it wants you to live in fear, live in the past to be manipulated, but we have, we have a father who freely son wants us to live in freedom,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:43

redemption, and washed in the blood of Jesus living in peace, salvation, justification, sanctification, guilt,

Simon Pinchbeck: 36:52

because like you said, Soon as when you confess it with a right heart,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 36:57

it's, it's done and you become lighter, and you become free, because you are saying Lord helpme but how many ministers are out there and how many pastors and leaders and all going back through generations, people haven't been able to speak freely in church because of that? Oh, you live like that. You've done that. Do you know how they've been living, do you know what they've done. And you know,

Simon Pinchbeck: 37:25

Ben, one of the phrases that we really don't like, but it's a catchphrase of the church at the moment is our blessed and highly favored brother channel of blessing 95 My family's best 95 year we are but just talk, just admit where you're at. Jesus just you don't, he doesn't want his son or daughter to come to him and go. Yeah, I love your Lord and behind, we're pushing all the shame and the guilt we're pushing it. So don't want to see that. I don't want you to see, you know, if what he wants is for you to bring that and go. Because that way you bring your suitcases, bring whatever you've got.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:11

The Scripture is clear, and it has come to me, all of you that are weary and heavy laden, and I will give you read what my weary with living life as in the world. What am I laden with worries and fears and sin and guilt and doubt, exploration, fear,

Simon Pinchbeck: 38:29

people bent expectation of the church judgment on us, all that sort of stuff.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 38:35

I don't think the world actually really judges you like the church, like religion judges you Jesus doesn't judge us. I know, he's the judge, and he's standing at the door. But we know there's no judgement because as soon as we go, Father, forgive me for I've sinned, that has gone it has gone to the cross, and it has been now and it is finished.

Simon Pinchbeck: 38:53

And that's the problem by not knowing the word. And if I don't know the word, then we don't know there is no condemnation for those that are just

Reverend Ben Cooper: 39:03

right. And if the denominations are not preaching, you must be born again. Again, when you think about that, when was the last time it was in church when the preachers and teachers and let's not leave it at the preachers feet, when are the heads of the ministries, and the denominations? And the men's ministries and the women's ministries? And all the ministries actually delivered time and time and time out like Billy Graham did, he delivered the gospel message, and people got saved and the backslide has come back the protocols come back, if you just keep preaching the gospel is going to be the same message. week in week out. It's Jesus salvation. You don't need the prosperity gospel. What it because it's not a gospel of peace, is the gospel of climbing the tree and getting yourself rich when you can't do that and you've must be born again. When was the last time you heard a Men's Ministry a woman's Ministry, a preacher and teacher, and a church and a denomination driving it as hard as they're driving, God loves you,

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:08

Ben, all we got to do is deliver the message the message not?

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:12

And what is the message, that message you must be born against people?

Simon Pinchbeck: 40:16

And again, you've got to have a new heart. How do

Reverend Ben Cooper: 40:18

I do it? Well, you can't do it actually, it's this simple. Come to Jesus, all of you that are were inevitably I will give you this. For John 316. When you look at what we're in John three, what is absolutely completely contained in John three is a lifetime of living by the word, you can do some real deep dive in on the scriptures, and you can spend hours and years, you know, we've just spoken for 40 minutes, and we just haven't even opened a can of it, you haven't even popped the lid off of or you don't even unscrewed the cap of what we're really looking at, because it is packed full of Jesus packed, jammed loaded with salvation.

Simon Pinchbeck: 41:02

And you don't sort of mess about does he? So you don't say you've got to do three months of this, or you've got to do you don't, either as a few queries, don't say no, you've got to come to my church for for six months when this step No, you don't. And the thing is, make no edits, if you listen to this, you don't say I'd like to be born again. Or it'd be good if you're born again. Or maybe you shouldn't be born again. He said, Unless you

Reverend Ben Cooper: 41:36

unless you mentioned about coming to the there are I know there is a church because I know this church very, very well, that if you want to belong to the church, you've got to go through a course and you've got to go for a criteria. But you could get rejected at the end of that. And I know, I know that happens. And you have to sit before the panel and see if you are worthy of going into that church. Well. I'll tell you that off air, I'm not going to do it because, you know, but when you that that is fact because I know a couple of elders that sit on it. And they've told me I've written out and I said, How can that be scripture? How can you honestly, I need educated in this? How can the church ask for a subscription and be a membership? What is Jesus just the only if you could put that in the world of membership? You must be born again. But you're you do not decide. No one decides

Simon Pinchbeck: 42:33

that could not be our family. But here we go. Please, if anyone ever, if you go anywhere and you're seeking Jesus, some people say you needed to go on a mumps course, to course, turn round and just run away from that church, ranted across because, you know, say, you know you come into a church early Jesus, I need honey, Jesus now on he helped me I'm a sinner. Okay, well, here's a, you've got to fill the form out, do that.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:05

And then in six weeks, we'll have a member Sunday. And then we'll we'll vet it. We read everything. And we'll see if you can if you fit what we want you to be. What is Jesus? Again? I've said it twice already come to me. All of you.

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:20

We have these these Yeah, with these things out there. And you know,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:24

various things out there in the Nicodemus world that we've been looking at.

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:29

On a Jesus well get a bunch of mics together. I put up put on a Jesus right now now get a bunch of mics together. And we talk about what yeah, whatever chat and whatever and, and maybe go on a course No, but I need him now. Oh,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 43:46

no, he's not around for next five weeks. He'd be back in five weeks.

Simon Pinchbeck: 43:50

Can you imagine? Listen to this when you know, could you imagine? You You've been cured of a serious illness, you know, the cure, you know it. Your next door neighbor has got the same illness? And I see you I come to you and I go, Ben, what was it? What was it that killed you? And you know the answer, but you say to him, Well, you've got to do this. First you've got to go and you've got to be in this place where everyone else is for a few months before we tell you the secret. There is a cult.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 44:25

It's a cult. And I would I would clearly put my name to this. There are many ministries, and there are many churches that are of the cultic side of the occult world rather than the world of the kingdom of God. Because of the way they worship the way they speak the way they lead the man or the woman is the top of the tree. I am I decide. i So there is a lot of that going on at this moment. But when you really study the Scripture, Jesus says, For God so loved the world that who However, you've got that then. And then you've got John 832. You you will, who is the you, anyone that recognizes that you are that you will know the truth and the truth will set you free. Yeah. He says, Jesus doesn't talk about denominations you ever thought about that?

Simon Pinchbeck: 45:18

He says, whoever believes in Him shall not perish. So whoever not the person who puts the chairs out, or the church or whoever raises the flowers, not the person who's who's first in the church, whoever believes in Him,

Reverend Ben Cooper: 45:29

you must be born again. Whoever, you know, when you look at the teachings of Christ, I, this seems to be been like, lit up in my mind and my heart. He doesn't talk about denominations because they wasn't even there. No, it's man made made. denominations man has created the divide. Man has made his tower man has made his denominations and we can see through the teachings and through certain things in many denominations for what is going on that they are accepting what the world is driving, accepting what the government are saying, on many different areas, and the church is embracing what the world is doing. It's not the teachings of Jesus Christ, because Nicodemus was on the other side of the fence. You've got to be born again. And there are many people

Simon Pinchbeck: 46:23

that we were at. Yeah, we're on it. We're gonna Yeah, are we moving on? But we're gonna move on. But let me tell you why this is in the Bible. Why this is in the boy, what this is in the Bible, because this is the was the most religious man you could ever meet even says in the Bible. He was a ruler of Israel, which was used as a ruler, part of the the top top top religious group. And Jesus has gone. That's nothing. Yet you got to be born again.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 46:55

Verse 10. What sorry, I say you are Israel's teacher, Jesus said, and you do not understand these things. I think we come back with verse 10. Because understanding it is different to teach in. Two different things, big things to big things, Simon, you know what, the time just escapes us dinner. We're gonna go we're gonna have a quick Fagor might have a cigar. I might just quickly run down the book is water kettles boiling and put a bet on and then we're going to come back and we're gonna do another podcast. Yeah. In the name of Jesus. brother or sister. Yeah, wherever you are.

Simon Pinchbeck: 47:32

been a, it's been. It's been good this morning. And this afternoon. Yeah, that's been great.

Reverend Ben Cooper: 47:36

It's been great init. When come back in a minute, come back in. Yeah, let's go quick scratchcard, in the name of Jesus. You can find us on Buzzsprout, Spotify. You can find us on so many social platforms, but we're just being honest and all that and God loves us. That is the most amazing thing out of this. You are born again. You are spirit filled. God loves you. Your name is stamped in the Lambs Book of Life. We'll see you soon. God bless. Take care